Hello again—although the nerfing process for Mega Crucibelle has ended just a few days ago, the council has agreed that the next one should begin immediately, this time for Necturna.
The main reasons for doing this now instead of waiting for the metagame to stabilize after Crucibelle's nerfing are:
1) Since the discovery of its signature Shell Smash set, Necturna has been widely considered broken by the majority of CAP players.
2) Although the metagame will change to adapt to Mega Crucibelle being nerfed, it's extremely unlikely that any of these changes will affect Necturna's viability in a way that makes it any less broken.
3) With CAP 26 entering its Concept Submission stage, it's very important that we address this issue now. If we wait any longer, modifying Necturna in the middle of the project would have a negative impact on the quality of the discussion, as it would be extremely hard to make a good argument if no one knows how the stats and moves of one of the most important Pokemon in the metagame will end up looking.
While Necturna has access to virtually every move in the game thanks to Sketch, Shell Smash is undoubtedly its main allure, as it boost both its Attack and Speed by +2 in a single turn. When this is combined with Z-Phantom Force and Necturna's good Attack and decent Speed, it means that after a boost Necturna is not only is able to outspeed almost the entire metagame, but that it will almost always end up KOing one of the opposing Pokemon if played correctly, as there are very few viable Pokemon that resist Ghost-type moves and none of them are capable of taking Necturna's Grass-type STAB moves. Additionally, because its STAB moves are already so good, Necturna can easily fit Substitute in its last moveslot, making it even more difficult to deal with.
It is also very important to understand how easily Necturna can set up thanks to its great typing and bulk, which allow it to take advantage of many choice-locked moves like Volkraken's Hydro Pump or passive threats it can force out like Arghonaut. If the opposing team has no checks left, it can even set up even against Pokemon with super effective coverage, as moves like Krilowatt's Ice Beam and Mega Alakazam's Shadow Ball fail to KO it from full HP.
All of these qualities make Necturna an insanely over-centralizing Pokemon, as the whole metagame is warped around it, making threats like Weavile the premier Pursuit trapper and Kitsunoh the best Choice Scarf user. When building teams, you are almost always forced to use one of the few Pokemon capable of revenge killing Necturna, and under no circumstance should any of your Pokemon give Necturna a chance to set up a Substitute. Needless to say, this is extremely unhealthy, as the restrictions put on teambuilding make the metagame always revolve around the same few Pokemon and hurts creativity and diversity.
Most of the counterplay to Necturna consists of offensive Pokemon capable of revenge killing it, like Choice Band Weavile and Choice Scarf Kitsunoh. However, due to their frailty, none of these checks are able to switch in safely and lose if Necturna is behind a Substitute. This means that whenever Necturna gets in, it will always be able to leave a mark on the opposing team if played correctly because the opponent will have to chose between sending their main check and risking it taking a powerful and potentially lethal attack or sending a softer check, like Heatran, which will be unable to tank Necturna's moves if it chooses to boost. These checks also need to watch out for Necturna's other set, Shift Gear, which sacrifices power in favor of a bulkier approach. This set wouldn't be a problem by itself, but it only aggravates Necturna's balance issues, as it gives Necturna the ability to bypass many of the checks to its more common Shell Smash set, as its improved defenses mean that attacks like Kitsunoh's Shadow Strike, Greninja's Ice Beam, and Weavile's Ice Shard now fail to KO Necturna.
Super effective priority: This is the most common way to revenge kill Necturna, as Pokemon like Choice Band Weavile, Choice Band Syclant, and Mega Pinsir are capable of OHKOing Necturna after its Defense drops from using Shell Smash. However, none of these Pokemon are capable of safely switching in, can't do anything to Necturna behind a Substitute, and Syclant and Weavile fail to reliably revenge kill Shift Gear sets.
Faster Choice Scarf users: Another popular way of checking Necturna, Choice Scarf users with at least 110 Speed like Kitsunoh, Greninja, and Weavile are fast enough to outspeed a boosted Necturna, so they are able to revenge kill it. However, they are unable to switch in, only Weavile has enough power to KO Shift Gear sets from full HP, and they of course lose if Necturna successfully used Substitute. Additionally, they can all be outsped by rare Jolly sets.
Tomohawk: Defensive Tomohawk is the most reliable way of defensively checking Necturna, as Prankster Haze removes Necturna's boost before it can use them. However, this set is hard to fit into most teams because it's a massive momentum sink and performs poorly against many common threats like Mega Alakazam, Tapu Lele, and Magearna. Offensive sets can also use Haze to prevent Necturna from sweeping, but they are always KOed by an unboosted Never-Ending Nightmare after Stealth Rock damage.
Malaconda: Thanks to its typing, Malaconda can take any attack from Necturna's usual sets, and thanks to Infiltrator, it can OHKO Necturna though its Substitute. Unfortunately, outside of checking Necturna, Malaconda offers very little to any team and is another massive momentum sink.
Cyclohm: Thanks to its titanic physical bulk, Cyclohm is capable of surviving a boosted Never-Ending Nightmare approximately 60% of the time. However, not only this is still just a roll, but after just Stealth Rock damage it becomes a guaranteed OHKO.
Sucker Punch: Another form of super effective priority, users of this move like Mega Mawile and Colossoil can OHKO Necturna. However, in practice, this matchup is highly favorable to Necturna, because if it successfully sets up a Substitute even once, then it can KO them without any problem the next turn.
Two defensive Pokemon capable of walling Necturna without its Z-Move: Because Z-Moves can only be used once, using two Pokemon that can tank Necturna's other moves like Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Zapdos is an effective counter measure against it, as Necturna won't be able to beat both. However, this approach basically assumes that you are going to lose one of them to the Z-Move, which can easily leave your team vulnerable to other threats on the opposing team.
Offensive pressure: Playing and building in a way in which Necturna never gets a free turn is a very effective way to prevent Necturna from setting up Shell Smash or Substitute. However, this is also extremely restrictive and unhealthy, as Pokemon like Choice Scarf Volkraken and Landorus-T can't use Hydro Pump and Earthquake respectively, which makes it harder for them to check other Pokemon like Heatran. On top of that, because of Necturna's great bulk, it's capable of taking most super effective coverage like Mega Alakazam's Shadow Ball and Kartana's Knock Off, meaning that it can successfully use Shell Smash against them in a 1v1 situation. This method of dealing with Necturna is also very susceptible to tactics like Memento and Light Screen/Reflect, as they can give Necturna a chance to sweep even against the most careful of opponents.
Faster Choice Scarf users: Another popular way of checking Necturna, Choice Scarf users with at least 110 Speed like Kitsunoh, Greninja, and Weavile are fast enough to outspeed a boosted Necturna, so they are able to revenge kill it. However, they are unable to switch in, only Weavile has enough power to KO Shift Gear sets from full HP, and they of course lose if Necturna successfully used Substitute. Additionally, they can all be outsped by rare Jolly sets.
Tomohawk: Defensive Tomohawk is the most reliable way of defensively checking Necturna, as Prankster Haze removes Necturna's boost before it can use them. However, this set is hard to fit into most teams because it's a massive momentum sink and performs poorly against many common threats like Mega Alakazam, Tapu Lele, and Magearna. Offensive sets can also use Haze to prevent Necturna from sweeping, but they are always KOed by an unboosted Never-Ending Nightmare after Stealth Rock damage.
Malaconda: Thanks to its typing, Malaconda can take any attack from Necturna's usual sets, and thanks to Infiltrator, it can OHKO Necturna though its Substitute. Unfortunately, outside of checking Necturna, Malaconda offers very little to any team and is another massive momentum sink.
Cyclohm: Thanks to its titanic physical bulk, Cyclohm is capable of surviving a boosted Never-Ending Nightmare approximately 60% of the time. However, not only this is still just a roll, but after just Stealth Rock damage it becomes a guaranteed OHKO.
Sucker Punch: Another form of super effective priority, users of this move like Mega Mawile and Colossoil can OHKO Necturna. However, in practice, this matchup is highly favorable to Necturna, because if it successfully sets up a Substitute even once, then it can KO them without any problem the next turn.
Two defensive Pokemon capable of walling Necturna without its Z-Move: Because Z-Moves can only be used once, using two Pokemon that can tank Necturna's other moves like Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Zapdos is an effective counter measure against it, as Necturna won't be able to beat both. However, this approach basically assumes that you are going to lose one of them to the Z-Move, which can easily leave your team vulnerable to other threats on the opposing team.
Offensive pressure: Playing and building in a way in which Necturna never gets a free turn is a very effective way to prevent Necturna from setting up Shell Smash or Substitute. However, this is also extremely restrictive and unhealthy, as Pokemon like Choice Scarf Volkraken and Landorus-T can't use Hydro Pump and Earthquake respectively, which makes it harder for them to check other Pokemon like Heatran. On top of that, because of Necturna's great bulk, it's capable of taking most super effective coverage like Mega Alakazam's Shadow Ball and Kartana's Knock Off, meaning that it can successfully use Shell Smash against them in a 1v1 situation. This method of dealing with Necturna is also very susceptible to tactics like Memento and Light Screen/Reflect, as they can give Necturna a chance to sweep even against the most careful of opponents.
Here there are some replays to showcase Necturna's power:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7cap-781582297
Ming's team has two soft checks in the form of Celesteela and Sucker Punch Colossoil. However, after Necturna easily finds an opportunity to safely set up thanks to Memento support from Tomohawk, it easily plays around both of them. Against Celesteela, it takes only 70% from Flamethrower after a Special Defense drop and KOes in return. This still leaves Necturna with enough HP to successfully set up a Substitute, preventing Colossoil's Sucker Punch from revenge killing it. After that, Necturna effortlessly sweeps through the rest of ming's team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7cap-767520554
This replay perfectly shows the incredibly punishing nature of Necturna. After Narusin12 uses Bolt Strike with their Choice Scarf Victini, Jho's Necturna safely uses Substitute and proceeds to dismantle Narusin12's team. Because of the safety provided by Substitute, not even a miss from Power Whip is enough to stop Necturna's sweep.
Process:
The Council under this process has the ability to change Necturna in whatever method that does not remove its identity, which is being able to Sketch any move once (this means that Necturna can not lose access to Shell Smash). This can include changes to its stat spread, movepool, and ability. This does not mean we should actively look to nerf Necturna a significant amount, but to a level where it remains good in the metagame.snake_rattler said:
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/!\Rules for posting in this thread/!\
Do not post one liners, nor uninformed posts;
Do not hold discussion on other potential nerfing processes;
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You are required to make respectful posts.
If you fail to follow these rules, your post will be deleted and you will be infracted.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask Jordy, SHSP, snake_rattler, Jho, and/or Mx.
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