Was Gothitelle an Uber last gen when GG was oMotM?
As illama said, how does the gen 6 ban decision affect this gens? In ou greninja was broken last gen but it isnt anymore as its checked by celesteela,magearna, koko...etcIt should not be considered at all? If you played last generation you'd know STag is out of hand, and that was just with Gothitelle. Dugtrio and Tyranitar are definitely not answers, as Mega Gengar has ways to immobilize them (Disable, Hypnosis).
Uh no he didnt? Did you even read his last post? He said hes wont be allowing shadowtag but he literally just asked for our opinion on mega gengar. Oh and If it is a pointless discussion for u then fine dont participate or just say what u want and go, other people have something to sayiLlama has already stated he won't be allowing Gengarite, for good reason, so there's no point in continuing this discussion. In any case, there are plenty of more interesting and fair Pokemon to consider.
Highlighted some important things in my opinion, the reason illama is probably bringing it up is to see if its broken or not, thats a legitimate question please dont have this "ill not listen to anyone it was broken last gen so theres no discussion about it even" attitude, it was broken last gen due to its combination of high stats and st, the question is, is it still broken now?I brought up the topic of Gengarite while you shifted to Shadow Tag in general, brining up Gothitelle and Wobbuffet which is banned discussion.
If you're referring to the original OU banning of Mega Gengar, it became an Uber because it was a broken Pokemon stat wise, and on top of that, it had Shadow Tag (which was unbanned in OU at the time) which threw it over the top. Not sure why that decision in gen 6 OU affects this situation, but ok. Mega Gengar only donates the base form's 500 total base stats, so I'm not sure how the comparison with Salamence and Metagross is even remotely relevant. The real reason both Mega Salamence and Mega Metagross are terrible God Pokemon in Godly Gift is 1) they donate lower stats than the better gods and 2) they aren't very good on their own in the metagame.
I think you're over-exaggerating here quite a bit. The real concern with Gengarite is whether or not the Perish Trap set will ruin Godly Gift, which I'm not sure about, i.e. why it's a discussion topic. If Gengarite were to be unbanned, it's not like Mega Gengar can come in and just 1v1 every Stall team and instantly win. That's ridiculous. If you think that Mega Gengar will turn stall from a great archetype into one that is unplayable then that means that stall has no viable way of stopping it. This means that the multiple stall compositions that work exceedingly well in Godly Gift, i.e. Regenerator core, Lugia builds, Arceus builds, Giratina builds, etc. all lose to Mega Gengar and Gengar-boosted Pokemon, which I really don't see as being true. Beyond the stall builds, you also need to consider what Pokemon are viable and common in Godly Gift to see how it would affect them directly. Judging from common Pokemon you would find on stall both offensively and defensively and with say Ho-oh as the God, let's see how non-Perish Trap Mega Gengar fairs. Using the set Taunt/Shadow Ball/Sludge Wave or Bomb/Focus Blast:
I'll just cut it off there because I only want the most common stall receivers that I've seen. From this, all that I see is that Mega Gengar in general is unbearable for stall and it definitely does not ruin the archetype. Which I guess narrows the point of interest down to, 'will Perish Trap Mega Gengar be able to single-handedly ruin the metagame?' I'm not sure how to answer this myself because instinctively you want to say, 'Yes, Perish Trap Mega Gengar ruins Godly Gift," but then you have to consider why it isn't banned in other metagames, such as Ubers, where Perish Trap is a legitimate set option. Does Mega Gengar instantly become broken in a meta that has Pokemon utilizing Uber-like/gifted stats but aren't Ubers themselves? Is being allowed to use Mega Gengar a fair trade-off for having to use it as the team's God Pokemon, ultimately forcing 3 of the team's Pokemon to have to already be very good Pokemon in Godly Gift on their own, otherwise they're taking a handicap? Will Perish Trap Mega Gengar have the team support and sustain to make it a broken threat?
- Ho-oh forces Mega Gengar out.
- Clefable with boosted SpD+ stalls it out of Sludge Wave/Bomb with Wish/Protect. Taunt stops this.
- Specs/LO Swellow gets outsped and KOed.
- Dugtrio traps Mega Gengar, KOing with EQ if it still has sash or with Sucker Punch.
- Mimikyu is Ghost-type, has Disguise, and Shadow Sneak if Mega Gengar is not at full.
- Shuckle loses to Taunt after Mental Herb is exhausted.
- AV Tangrowth has about a 4% chance of being 2HKOed by Sludge Wave with no investment in SpD while EQ 2HKOes Mega Gengar.
- Alomomola threatens Scald burn and Mirror Coat while also being able to Wish/Protect stall. Taunt stops Wish/Protect.
- HP Gliscor forces Mega Gengar out.
- Skarmory loses. Can run Shed Shell in lieu of Leftovers without losing much, but take that as you please.
- Tyranitar (Max HP, Max Atk, Choice Band) loses to Focus Blast. If Focus Blast misses, Pursuit OHKOes. SpD Tyranitar (Max HP and about 160 SpD+ invest) lives Focus Blast and OHKOes with Crunch, threatens Pursuit trap as well.
- Normal Quagsire above ~66% forces Mega Gengar out. SpD invested Quag forces out without being 2HKOed by Shadow Ball.
- HP Bulky Mega Scizor forces Mega Gengar out.
- Normal SpD Celesteela forces Mega Gengar out and can switch in freely.
- Gastrodon forces Mega Gengar out.
- Muk-Alola can switch in freely and trap Mega Gengar.
Alright, admittedly I didn't quite catch the end of his post, but then again, your arguments for a suspect are incredibly weak. "to suggest it actually virtually threaten just about every single stall style, thats absurd yes" This is not absurd in the slightest. As stall is coming has mentioned earlier, the list of things it traps and kills is huge, which, by the way, is not just limited to stall Pokemon. It sets the benchmark very high with its Speed stat. Anything slower than it immediately is at threat of death unless they have ways of being immune to sleep. I don't know about you but I don't know many people that would enjoy playing a metagame where games are decided by whether or not Gengar can hit Hypnosis or not. It absolutely is the best stallbreaker this game has ever seen, that's a fact. There's no need to suspect test this when it is very apparent through observing other metagames and basic theorymonning that it's OP. You'd need Shed Shell on important Pokemon like Alomomola or Tangrowth to avoid being trapped and killed off, which hinders their effectiveness. It's so effortless how it can kill off these Pokemon. Just how can you defend this?As illama said, how does the gen 6 ban decision affect this gens? In ou greninja was broken last gen but it isnt anymore as its checked by celesteela,magearna, koko...etc
And well that was with gothitelle, she can do her trick thing on any defensive poke and either completley cripple it or use it as setup bait as it has decent bulk, m-gengar cant do any of this except perish trapping (which is why im suggesting some kind of clause on perish+trapping to fix this, ubers did a similar thing with sleeptrapping, we could do a similar clause but with perishtrapping)
Uh no he didnt? Did you even read his last post? He said hes wont be allowing shadowtag but he literally just asked for our opinion on mega gengar. Oh and If it is a pointless discussion for u then fine dont participate or just say what u want and go, other people have something to say
Highlighted some important things in my opinion, the reason illama is probably bringing it up is to see if its broken or not, thats a legitimate question please dont have this "ill not listen to anyone it was broken last gen so theres no discussion about it even" attitude, it was broken last gen due to its combination of high stats and st, the question is, is it still broken now?
To be honest i think people are overexaggerating m-gengars capabilities, to suggest it actually virtually threaten just about every single stall style, thats absurd yes it can trap some of the more popular ones like clefable/shuckle and skarmory but not singlehandidly cripple stall
but i may be wrong who knows, that why i support a suspect to see if its actually broken or not, i mean it wont hurt so why not
Gengar has good stats, but they're not broken. Alakazam-Mega has pretty similar stats, with even higher SpA and Spe, and is far from being broken. The thing which makes Gengar broken and an Uber is Shadow Tag.If you're referring to the original OU banning of Mega Gengar, it became an Uber because it was a broken Pokemon stat wise
Alright, admittedly I didn't quite catch the end of his post, but then again, your arguments for a suspect are incredibly weak. "to suggest it actually virtually threaten just about every single stall style, thats absurd yes" This is not absurd in the slightest. As stall is coming has mentioned earlier, the list of things it traps and kills is huge, which, by the way, is not just limited to stall Pokemon. It sets the benchmark very high with its Speed stat. Anything slower than it immediately is at threat of death unless they have ways of being immune to sleep. I don't know about you but I don't know many people that would enjoy playing a metagame where games are decided by whether or not Gengar can hit Hypnosis or not. It absolutely is the best stallbreaker this game has ever seen, that's a fact. There's no need to suspect test this when it is very apparent through observing other metagames and basic theorymonning that it's OP. You'd need Shed Shell on important Pokemon like Alomomola or Tangrowth to avoid being trapped and killed off, which hinders their effectiveness. It's so effortless how it can kill off these Pokemon. Just how can you defend this?
As a God. I think I alluded to that at different points, but I didn't outright state that.iLlama, you mention that Gengarite is being considered for an unban. My question is, as a god, as follower or both? You didn't mention if it's as a god or as a follower.
Because as a god, I don't see any problem with it. Hell, idk why you didn't unban Gengarite as a god in the first place. It gives trash stats in all but SpA and Speed, and it's not particularly high either. BUT, as a follower, it's a different story and I definitely don't agree with that.
For this I'll just use Niadev's points and some other issues from the council's discussion on the subject, which Funbot and I agreed with.Also, I still think some Ubers can be unbanned as a follower. Like, Mega Metagross. I don't see anything wrong with this, and before you use OU's reasoning for ban, OU is VERY different than Godly Gift, so OU's reasoning for ban isn't valid here. It's also supported by having WAY more checks than OU (I mentioned the checks in post #283). Also, Mega Metagross is exactly the same as last gen and people had NO trouble with it, so why is everyone against it now?
Another mon that can be considered is Genesect, thought it's more controversial. Mons being WAY bulkier and faster here means that it's more easily checked. Yeah, I know I can say that to, say, Darkrai or Blazikeen, but if you consider Genesect's movepool, it's mostly Special based, with very limited physical options. I think this is more controversial though, Mega Metagross is a "better" choice.
Darkrai, Blaziken, Landorus I, Aegislash, all I can say is, NO. Darkrai and Blaziken can run through teams with setup moves and high Speed or Speed Boost, and they still have great coverage options. Landorus I is already pretty fast and with higher Special Attack, it hits too hard. Aegislash, well... you want to face a 120 / 150 / 150 defenses Aegislash? If it were me, I'd say no.
dont think thats a bug. since your "god" is solgazma, your ultra necrozma's speed is lowered down to solgazma's due to solgazma being the god, and not ultra necro...i think this is the case with all megas/forme changes.Revival! Discovered a bug with Ultra Necrozma - it still retains its Speed after transforming, when it should get faster.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7godlygift-223598
I can confirm that this is how the mechanic is currently implemented on ROM. You can of course use this to your advantage by putting your Ultra Necrozma in slots 3 or 5 as this would prevent a stat reduction you would normally get.since your "god" is solgazma, your ultra necrozma's speed is lowered down to solgazma's due to solgazma being the god, and not ultra necro...i think this is the case with all megas/forme changes.
Since this meta is based off OU clauses and bans Arena Trap should be banned here too by default, unless illama wants to keep it in the tier for some reason he should state that he unbanned itConsidering Dugtrio was never banned in this meta, but it was banned in OU, is it going to be just banned, suspect tested or just kept as it is?
FAQ #1 actually completely addresses this in the most simplistic way possible.dont think thats a bug. since your "god" is solgazma, your ultra necrozma's speed is lowered down to solgazma's due to solgazma being the god, and not ultra necro...i think this is the case with all megas/forme changes.
dispite what the FAQ's say, it never directly confirm's nor deny's the accuracy of this mechanic, as when it refer's to "gods gaining stats" it doesnt mention form's in the example. its something that prob needs to be addressed.
i knew faq 1 was an attempt to address this. which is why i said it never "Directly" confirmed or denys it.FAQ #1 actually completely addresses this in the most simplistic way possible.
I'll provide an update once I get home tonight.
The soulblaze is indeed gloriousAfter voting, I see we are 3rd place in OMotM!
I think one surprise threat since USUM is Cangloreous Soulblaze. Whatever stat is boosted (SpA or Speed) by the god gets a huge boon for the +1 stat increase, except HP.
So imagine if it is Godly Gifted Kyurem-W’s SpA, and then Hits for 185 Base power (or 277.5 STAB Base Power), and then gets to Boost it’s own Attack power further, and gain a speed boost. I think people often look at the raw stats first, but if the set up move can surpass the item and abilities that make other Pokémon good, then we can find some other hidden threats.
Plus, with it being a sound move, it can hit past a Substitute. Fairy and Soundproof Pokémon are the only stops, as all Z-moves break last Protect and deal 25%, meaning it will still activate, plus unlike Eevee, it isn’t Tauntable.
That's a pretty great team, but wouldn't Crobat rather have Infiltrator over Inner Focus? Unless you really hate Fake Out or Serene Grace hax, I don't see any reason why it would run Inner FocusI made a Balance Sandstorm team!
120HP Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
Arceus @ Sky Plate / Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Recover
120Def Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance
120SpA Crobat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Air Slash
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
120SpD Hippowdon @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
120Spe Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance
A sandstorm team that served me well on the ladder, when it was up. (This was before Deo-A was banned.)
Hippowdon and Ferrothorn to stack up hazards and stall.
Crobat to go fast and revenge kill, the team needs a speedy attacker not dependent on sand. Could substitute for Sweollow or anything else that's fast in Attack or Special Attack slot.
Excadrill sets up and tries to sweep in sand. 120 defence lets it tank a few priority moves. Can also spin to remove hazards which Crobat and Arceus appreciate, but lacks coverage.
Mega Garchomp doesn't get that much of a boost from 120 base speed, but at 700 BST it doesn't need that much. Hits hard with Earthquake in sandstorm.
Arceus can just set up in front of many OU mons without fear. Flying plate is better for Arceus to sweep with, but Splash plate lets it switch in to fire and water moves. The team is very weak with no safe switchins against attackers with fire/water or fighting/water coverage life Volcanion or Mega Blastoise. I honestly didn't consider most Ubers, there might be a different God that works better for this team.