Yeah, but this becomes even worse if hazards are down. You would have to have two Magic Guard Mons or two Boots, and Boots can get knocked.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Its also possible you have a teammate that is already status'd gliscor particularly is really common this generation as is Gholdengo, or Garg all completely laugh at yawn
Furthermore multiple Pokemon do run heavy duty boots it was and still is really common
What spread are you running on Clef? I go max defense but obviously that can’t answer Kyurem.
Being FORCED to use an item/mon is not healthy. You should WANT to run these mons/items. If you lose after a few hazards are down and that is something that is easier than ever, because of yawn spam, than that is not healthy.
Losing yawn was unfortunate, but it was a necessary casualty to get rid of sleep because sleep clause was inconsistent with modern tiering policy. Unbanning yawn would also again, warp the metagame around it. Maybe not to an extreme degree, but to an unhealthy one.
pre-wake: "yeah baby, garg quickban is gonna happen any day now"
pre-home: "we popping the biggest bottles when garg gets suspected"
post-home: "people are totally gonna realize how broken garg is soon"
dlc1: "everyone's about to figure out that garg is op, it's only a matter of time"
dlc2: "y'all are gonna be sorry when garg gets back into ou"
gen 10: "they're gonna bring garg back in the dlc and it's gonna be banned this time for sure, i know it"
gen 10 dlc1: "i don't care that it's ru, the gargening is coming, trust the plan"
gen 10 dlc2: "once they put garg back on the vr you guys are all gonna pay"
True. It’s just a pretty cheesy strategy that would pop up and be annoying to play against.
Yawn doesn't force anything as there is counterplay in the form of just killing whatever is yawning or letting a Pokemon sleep, the primary Pokemon that like to yawn are usually slower paced walls, because a fast paced Pokemon usually doesnt have the defence stats to yawn infront of something Pokemon like Gastrodon. I did sudjest an alternative that is far more unhealthy then sleep ever was, which is banning tera.
Max Spdef, which is useful for other mons like Deo-S
damn man this is the shit im referring to. it's cool and all if you want to hold a different opinion than the majority, but at least don't be an ass about it.
"hmm okay agree to disagree, i still think that garg is still a bit overpowered in my eyes, specially ones the next bans come in place. i know it's not a widespread sentiment and that's okay, just giving my two cents"
"lulululul y'all are STUPID for not seeing that this bitch GARG OP. y'all put me as tierleader once its inevitably discovered that garg is the most cancerous mon since skymin"
dont you see the fucking difference in tone? don't come in this thread acting like the second coming of christ my dude. if you're going to hold unpopular opinions, specially after being rebutted multiple times, be humble about it. that's what gets me on my nerves about your posts, you act like all the discussion ppl do here is pointless bc you got sv ou all figured out
I would like to additionally clarify that folks need to be careful not to run Unaware on SpDef sets because it will ignore the drop from Psycho Boost. Magic Guard SpDef is the way to go, except for Serp.
whoa there. Garg isn’t broken but it absolutely takes special hits fine. It obviously isn’t as insanely durable as it vs phys hits when invited phys def but it takes them
don’t bother trying to argue with them. They’re constantly moaning about Tera too and acting like other who disagree are wrong and all this.
Not going to make a statement on Kyurem at this time but "balance is dead because of Kyurem" is not really a fair assessment to make while Wellspring is in the tier. Without Kyurem that's one more reason to put the even more ridiculous balance breaker on every single team
Doesn't matter, Dondozo loses to any faster 3HKO and Tera Fire isn't real
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eyeing Gholdengo so hard I need to see an optometrist
Oh im aware ive been spamming garg since like mid pre-home im definitely aware of what hes capable of
He takes special hits decently but it also does just feel like any specs user in the tier can 2hko him with a neutral move honestly, even max hp max spD isn't all that and a bag of chips on the special and its more just a failsafe because you're meant to be walling phys attackers with boosting before you chip them to death. I haven't tried the mixed defenses evs but that sounds even worse.
Firstly, eyeing Kingambit so hard I am now blind
Secondly, when we only have 2 rapid spinners and one defogger in the tier, of course hazard removal was going to be shit. Mons can still run non-HDB items and succeed, just look at Rillaboom, it never runs HDB from what I've seen.
The meta is sort of at that point all ready.
if you can convince "the crowd" of that, more power to you, but i don't think this is good or right. i still believe that there's a good, engaging, balanced meta buried under all the layers of nonsense, and we're not going to get there by trying to "find the right balance" in a place where it doesn't exist. and none of the things we've banned have been "sorta-broken", they've all been fully broken. power creep has just been so bad this gen that a lot of people have forgotten that "broken" covers more than just "solos the entire meta"
Yes Gliscor isn't a counter, but SD sets can kind of set up on it and pressure Garg which is the point I was trying to make earlier.
Terastalization is definitely making powercreep worse and is massive powercreep in its own right, but yeah some of the stuff we have to deal with is absolutely absurd, like Roaring Moon Gouging Fire (Who I really wish could have been balanced, since bulky sets on paper could have been healthy) and stuff like Iron Bundle and Flutter Mane who were OU initially for whatever reason.
After some reflection, honestly we should just ban the op stuff at this point and see if tera becomes more problematic to balance the meta around because I think people want to give this meta more time to see how tera shapes up mainly before doing anything about it, because I think this meta just needs some more bans and time to develop as much as I think tera should go, a lot of people just wanna see how this meta shapes up after enough bans. So I guess its time to see if tera rears its ugly head later and people see it as a problem again once we are down to just the post home tera abusers. I had some time to think about this meta, and I think we should definitely try to get it to where we had it in post home before any tera tiering discussion happens. I may want tera gone, but I think we gotta deal with the aforementioned Kyurem, Roaring Moon, Waterpon, and Gouging Fire first before we discuss anything pertaining to it. Because I have a gut feeling people are gonna want tera banned like when its just Gambit, Volc, and Garg abusing tera like post-home (With the addition of Raging Bolt of course.) and the base SV metagame. I want tera banned, but I think I just wanna see how things play out. Because there are way bigger issues in this meta at the moment like the 4 super banworthy mons I mentioned in Gouging Fire, Roaring Moon, Kyurem, and Waterpon. As stated before tera should remain on the survey for the time being, especially as more bans come in
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You're welcome to believe that, BolTingBlazie, but as far as I can tell based on the trajectory of the results on action on Tera the number of people who support action on it will continuously go down as people either decide to live with Tera or stop engaging with the community.
I do not believe there will be a point where there is a majority that wants to act on Tera again even though I personally hate the mechanic. I just see the writing on the wall.
The longer Tera stays in the meta the less likely there will be action on it since the meta would completely change if it were to be banned, which would result in a reset of the tier to an extent, which would be unpalatable to many players. This is one of the reasons permaweather stayed for the entire generation in Gen 5.
I do not believe there will be a point where there is a majority that wants to act on Tera again even though I personally hate the mechanic. I just see the writing on the wall.
The longer Tera stays in the meta the less likely there will be action on it since the meta would completely change if it were to be banned, which would result in a reset of the tier to an extent, which would be unpalatable to many players. This is one of the reasons permaweather stayed for the entire generation in Gen 5.
I understand that players want to keep it around... I just don't feel as if it will be good for the long term meta after the gen ends. I guess players made the bed they lay in...
I think tera is gonna lead to an unbalanced meta by the end of the gen. Black and white still isn't a balanced meta, and I'm more concerned tera is gonna drive people away when the gen ends and will likely end up like gems and will only go when players move on. I guess we as the playerbase learned nothing from black and white OU, even if we are doing what we can to get it semi balanced. Who the fuck knows at this point. For all we know people could switch up once enough stuff goes or nothing happens until the end of the gen or at all. Who the hell knows what the future holds.
Either way, I'm still going to engage with the meta, but this mess of a meta makes me appreciate metagames like Gen 8 and Gen 3 OU a lot more than I already did, as they are fun metagames that are balanced and allow for some super fun teambuilding because the council and community did a damn good job balancing them and it shows. I know not everyone likes gen 8 OU for being slow paced sometimes, but it's a really fun OU tier that deserves attention, even if games can sometimes last varying amounts of time.
I think tera is gonna lead to an unbalanced meta by the end of the gen. Black and white still isn't a balanced meta, and I'm more concerned tera is gonna drive people away when the gen ends and will likely end up like gems and will only go when players move on. I guess we as the playerbase learned nothing from black and white OU, even if we are doing what we can to get it semi balanced. Who the fuck knows at this point. For all we know people could switch up once enough stuff goes or nothing happens until the end of the gen or at all. Who the hell knows what the future holds.
Either way, I'm still going to engage with the meta, but this mess of a meta makes me appreciate metagames like Gen 8 and Gen 3 OU a lot more than I already did, as they are fun metagames that are balanced and allow for some super fun teambuilding because the council and community did a damn good job balancing them and it shows. I know not everyone likes gen 8 OU for being slow paced sometimes, but it's a really fun OU tier that deserves attention, even if games can sometimes last varying amounts of time.
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I mean, black and white was marred by many more problems, such as Aldaron's proposal (basically swift swm + drizzle was banned), which stagnated metagame development and made the metagame development worse. I don't think we have had something similar to that in tera, or in Gen 9 as a whole. That was a complex ban that stiffled metagame development by allowing a dominant playstyle to basically continue despite the fact rain has always been the problem. I'm not a BW expert, so take my opinions with a grain of salt though.
Also comparing gems to tera is funny, comparing them to Z-Moves is more accurate, but gems weren't the biggest problem in Gen 5 OU, just another shit thing on the shit sandwich that was BW metagame balance. (To note, I don't hate BW, I find it fun to jump into every once in a while, its just from a balancing perspective, BW is horrible.)
Glowking is a pivot. You use it to pivot out to something like a Zamazenta or Iron Valiant or whatever can outspeed and KO Kyurem.
I don't think the meta will end up as bad, but I think it will end up in a similar position to black and white by the end of the gen. I'm grateful the council is doing what they can at the moment. But who the hell knows what the future will hold or where the meta will end up, that's part of the fun I guess. As much as I don't like this metagame, I want to engage and see where it ends up.
Did you get reqs and vote ban?
The vote was close (58%) so a few more ban votes could have swung the outcome.
My life is too busy to get reqs, but I also have the cognizance to not complain too much about undesired suspect outcomes because of this.