Rejected Zoroark Tooltip

[Teramin]

Hi guys, could I recommend that there be a overhaul of the procedure for displaying information for Zoroark.
This Pokémon is mostly stylistic, and is not one of the heavy hitters that are available, with it only being in NU, despite this, the tooltip does not support Zoroark's disguise ability, and even gives a hint to help people figure out what it is.

I would suggest that the Move tooltip be switched back and forth to the set of moves of the one that was most recently used, (so displaying the moves used for the real version and not showing that data when Zoroark is out). It's not like its hard to discern what it is, so this would just allow for a bit more pretense to be kept up, instead of nerfing this unique Pokémon with something you wouldn't even be able to see in the games.
Love your site and thanks for you time

 

[DaWoblefet]

You'll need to provide specific examples of where Illusion is being leaked when it shouldn't. Illusion is a pretty confusing ability (shocker), but Showdown gets it right for the most part so you'll have to explain where it's wrong. And if it is wrong, then that's a bug, not a suggestion.

 

[Teramin]

It appears when more than four moves appear to have been used by one Pokémon. I doubt it is an error because there is a message that say that when more than four moves appear to have been used by one Pokémon, it’s probably a Zoroark or a Zeroa.
Since there was a message, I don’t think it was accidental, but I understand that the info probably confused people which is why they would put it there.
To help with that I put forwards my suggestion, so that they could maintain the work they did on preventing confusion, without the tooltip artificially nerfing a unique Pokémon back to the Stone Age.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

If you see Toxicroak apparently use five moves, what else is the tooltip supposed to do? Say it didn't use Dark Pulse even though you definitely saw it use Dark Pulse and it can definitely learn Dark Pulse?

 

[DaWoblefet]

Again, you'll need to provide specific examples of where you think Illusion is mistaken. If I understand you correctly now, here's what I think you're saying:

Suppose a Charizard uses Flamethrower, Roost, Defog, and Air Slash. Then, Zoroark switches in, as an Illusion of Charizard, and uses Protect. So "Charizard" will have used 5 different unique moves, all possibly learned by Charizard. But Charizard can't have all 5 moves. Currently, Showdown displays in this case that the Pokemon is Zoroark. But if I'm understanding right, you're saying it shouldn't show that, because it's "nerfing" Zoroark. However, any player would have this knowledge available to them; it's no different than marking a Pokemon as having Leftovers when it reveals the item.

You're going to need to explain a specific example (preferably with a replay) of what Illusion is currently doing that it should not be doing.

 

[Teramin]

I’m sorry, I don’t have the replay saved. I don’t think that it’s a bug, I just believe that since the entire point of Zoroark as a Pokémon is to trick people, the notification identifying it is at least too much. Illusion is a rare ability so it tricks more people than you would think, and to the point that it is the same as everything else, I would say that everyone has access to the !stats command to identify it if they are unfamiliar with it. While it is not a nerf in the traditional sense, it does undermine this Pokémon in a way it does to no other in the game.
My solution is probably not the best one, but was meant as a jumping-off point for this, as this Pokémon could probably see more and more varied use with some tweaking to how it is handled in the tooltip.
Ps. I’m sorry if I’m coming off as aggressive in this format, I’m not very good at online communication and tend to be interpreted as such through the internet.
Thank you

 

[Zarel]

I think I understand what you're trying to ask, you want the moves Zoroark used not to appear in the move tracker, so it doesn't show more than 4 moves, so it doesn't need the note about how it's probably a Zoroark.

There are many problems with this, but the big one is that it would require us to tell the client which moves were used by Zoroark, which is information you can't possibly know. I don't think it's possible to give you what you want.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I guess an option would be to knock the least recently used move off the list? So like in Woble's example, if Charizard/"Charizard" had used Defog the least recently, the tooltip would display Flamethrower / Roost / Air Slash / Protect. But that still contradicts the tooltip's main purpose, which is to tell you things you should already know.

 

[Teramin]

even perhaps just removing the message about it being a zoroark, its not a very powerful sweeper, so it almost always gets revealed, meaning the impact of removing the message is only to reward people who are paying attention, since zoroark is shown in the preview of the teams, it shouldn't be too hard for people to figure out, and I don't think penalizing people who don't pay attention is that bad of a consequence.
either way this falls, thank you for the response and consideration, and thank you for the wonderful site you create.