Project XY RU Research Week #4

[g]

Approved by Molk
OP stolen from Mazz
Taken from HotnCold

RESEARCH WEEK #4

• Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
• Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and / or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

A few things to clarify:

• Early period means the first three days of the research week, so let's keep the theorymoning to a minimum after. The late period refers to the last four days of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread.
• Sign-Ups close Wednesday night, so be sure to sign up before they close!
• You must post a ladder ranking in order to win the above prizes.

This Week's Research Pokemon:

Spiritomb|Sigilyph|Dragalge
How useful are these Pokemon in XY RU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #rarelyused as well!

The Research Group Challenge:

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Post here with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
• Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - don't just tell us, show us!
• Remember to submit your ranking!

The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown RU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends. Prizes are currently being discussed with higher powers, so hang tight while I find something worth your guys' attention.

PAST WEEKS WINNERS

Week #2:
Xenoblade911
Week #3:
galbia

 

[JMcFizz]

I don't know what poke I'll try out this week, but I'll comment on a couple things.

Sigilyph was a strong CM LO user in BW2, and probably can function well in that niche again. It's almost completely outclassed by Delphox, however. It's niche lies in it's ability, Magic Guard. Not being affected by entry hazards is really nice, esp. when it's competition takes 25% from SR. It had a better niche in not being affected by webs during the Shuckle meta, but now its banned so yeah.. Maybe a niche set with flame orb psycho shift?

Dragalge got a little bit of attention in the RU beta stage as an assault vest user due to it's base 123 Sp Def, but obviously the usage didn't stay in the RU range. Base 97 Sp Atk isn't anything to laugh at with a moveset sporting Dragon Pulse, Draco Meteor, Focus Miss, Scald, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb/Wave, Surf, and Thunder/Tbolt. It also has some utility in phazing with dragon tail, and can lay down t-spikes. Interesting side notes are venoshock combined with t-spikes (base 65 Stab doubled in power if target is poisoned), and Venom Drench, which lowers the Atk, Sp Atk, and Speed of the target by one stage each.

 

[PokèManiac Livio]

Nickname: Unban Aegi

I ll try with both Spiritomb and Dragalge. I ll give my thoughts after ladder experienxe.

 

[Dr Ciel]

Going to give this one a shot.

Nickname: Frosted Fireworks

Pokémon: Dragalge

 

[Lord Death Man]

Nickname: versace hottie

Pokemon: All three

 

[migzoo]

Nick: SIGzootwo
Pokemon: Sigilyph, duh

I really liked using LO Sigi in late 5th Gen, and when I tried it out in early XY RU it did aight. Testing now to see how it fares in the new meta, which is significantly different (no more kyurem and azelf phew). CP Sigi has always sucked is no longer as viable imo because powerful knock offs are abound, and the general speed/power creep since last gen means the opponent can usually switch out to something that can OHKO or 2HKO Sigi even at +1. I imagine specs tinted lens Sigi is pretty much completely outclassed by Yanmega, the only advantages it has being a tad of extra speed and special bulk, and not as big of a SR weakness.
Speaking of Yanmega, I'm thinking that Sigilyph + Yanmega might make a decent offensive core. You can either have specs Yanmega to break walls and LO (maybe CM) Sigi to sweep afterwards, or the opposite: offensive Sigi can run the coverage moves necessary to dent Speed Boost Yanmega's switchins and Sigi could even use Flame Orb as a lure. Yanmega can also kinda deal with (some) Zoroark, which is a big problem for Sigilyph

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Spiritomb, although not RU this gen, is still pretty effective in this meta imo. It's a nice check to some common Pokemon like Delphox, Reuniclus, and Hitmonlee thanks to its typing. It can really put some pressure on the opponent with Sucker Punch, Pursuit, and Foul Play, and Will-O-Wisp is a nice tool too. The Infiltrator buff was awesome for Tomb, meaning it can burn stuff even behind a Sub, as well as deal damage. Being walled by Cobalion kinda sucks, but otherwise it's a solid anti-meta mon atm. It's a really good offensive utility Pokemon imo, and it's quite underrated atm and should definitely get more usage.

Sigilyph was a strong offensive mon in BW RU, and although there's Delphox and Reuniclus for it to compete with now, it's still pretty solid. It takes no Life Orb recoil at all and has good offensive coverage, and Magic Guard means it's much harder to wear down than Delphox. It's also much faster than Reuniclus which is cool too. The main thing that lets it down atm is that it has to compete a lot with Delphox and Reuniclus for a slot, but it has some cool advantages and does well if you need what it has to offer.

I tried Dragalge early on in the RU meta and it wasn't shabby. It has a nice Toxic Spikes set, which walls quite a few threats in this meta like Virizion, non Specs Yanmega, Tangrowth, Jolteon, etc. Its offensive presence, although not great, is solid for a defensive Pokemon, and it has the special bulk to set up Toxic Spikes quite reliably, while it can also phaze and spread burns with Scald. While the specially defensive set is its main niche atm and its only set on the analysis, I'm genuinely interested in trying a Specs set, since Dragalge is the only specially oriented Dragon in RU, other than Altaria which sucks, and it has a nice offensive movepool to hit for good damage. It might not be that good, but I think it should be interesting to try, and I think a Specs set might have potential.

Just wanted to get my past experiences with these mons in, and speaking of which, I'll sign up.

Nick: Krookodile
Pokemon: Dragalge, Sigilyph

 

[Lord Death Man]

I'm sitting at 1270 with a 12-2 record, and I felt like talking about my (rather short) experience so far.

I've felt that Spiritomb was the weakest link overall in the team. I tried running a Pursuit-Trap set I understand what it's supposed to be doing but I just can't get it to pull it off successfully, as many of the common ghosts outspeed and burn, and I find many psychics to be difficult switch-ins. I've gotten the most use out of it as a anti-Doublade, and I'd much rather use Zoroark for that. I'm sure there's just something I'm doing wrong, but at the moment I'm not "feeling" any of it's sets, and this is a pokemon I've used on nearly every NU team I've made. I feel the current environment involving Zoroark, Exploud and Yanmega, and their checks/counters/whatever Aromatisse and Registeel, just aren't doing Spiritomb any favors.

Sigilyph is running an offensive CM set (Life Orb + Max Speed/Special Attack) and despite having been told that this set was "bad" I've found it pretty effective. It's an alright Drapion lure, outspeeding and ohkoing fast offensive varients when at +1 with rocks up, which I've found isn't that hard to do, and getting a good 2hko on defensive variants who can't ohko back. Major problems are Zoroark, Doublade and Bronzong, but I've generally found other ways to deal with those. I should probably be running Heat Wave over Air Slash, but I really need to get rid of Drapion for the rest of my team to work.

Dragalge has served fairly well as a toxic spikes setter, using it's great special bulk to try to get two layers of toxic spikes out over the match. I've been running Scald on it over Dragon STAB to hit Gligar on the switch and because burning common switch-ins really help it get toxic spikes up, as odd as that sounds. I've found it's a fantastic partner for Alomomola, as it resists attacks commonly aimed at it, and because it's low hp mean a wish will heal it substantially. The fourth slow is Dragon Tail for phazing, which I'm paranoid to do without. I've also found it does well as a Yanmega switch-in, but that only works once against Tinted Lens sets, and struggles to do much back without Draco Meteor.

Edit: Okay so when I made this post I was wrong about almost everything.

 

[Magis4Life]

Alt: Bl3 Sigi
Pokemon: Sigilyph

 

[Explorer]

Dragalge got a little bit of attention in the RU beta stage as an assault vest user due to it's base 123 Sp Def, but obviously the usage didn't stay in the RU range. Base 97 Sp Atk isn't anything to laugh at with a moveset sporting Dragon Pulse, Draco Meteor, Focus Miss, Scald, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb/Wave, Surf, and Thunder/Tbolt. It also has some utility in phazing with dragon tail, and can lay down t-spikes. Interesting side notes are venoshock combined with t-spikes (base 65 Stab doubled in power if target is poisoned), and Venom Drench, which lowers the Atk, Sp Atk, and Speed of the target by one stage each.

I never tried Venom Drench on Dragalge. I guess if it lays TSpikes and an opponent gets poisoned and then hit with Venom Drench it has to either deal with lowered stats or switch out and have another Pokemon poisoned before the TSpikes can be Defogged away?

I have used AV sets since Dragalge has a lot of cool resistances and a good movepool/stat spread to utilize AV. Scald/Hydro Pump even covers its crushing Ground weakness so I run it quite often. Offensive sets could run HP Fire for Escavalier.

That said I won't be doing a ladder run this week since I'm trying to focus on getting reqs for the Aegislash test in OU.

 

[Shaymin :D]

Alt: Shay's Men
Pokemon: Dragalge

Will post experiences later ;o

EDIT: Did some ladder, limited myself to 20 games since wynaut

http://imgur.com/J8RDeh4

I tried Dragalge's Choice Specs set, seeing if a +1 130 BP STAB move off of 97 Special Attack would give it a good niche offensively. The results were... mixed. It did hit quite hard indeed. However, Draco Meteor still reduces your Special Attack majorly, letting 2HKOs it would get into opportunities for the opponent to heal off the damage. For this reason, it's dead weight versus stall, which is quite sad for a tank/wallbreaker.

However, I said it had mixed results, which means it does good things as well. If you are against a balance team with a dead/no Steel types and SpDef pivots, you can kiss your team goodbye. With the lack of extremely bulky mons to tank DM compared to Stall, Dragalge can switch in easily thanks to its many resistances, and keep on firing off Draco Meteors until the team is dead. Albeit, removing Steel types and SpDef pivots isn't the easiest thing, but can be done with something such as SD Zoroark w/ Low Kick, which can not only lure in Psychic attacks when disguised as Dragalge, but also kills Steels and SpDef mons, while luring in Aromatisse.

Overall, Dragalge was quite a fun mon to use. Not only is it underrated as all hell, but it's also definitely viable. Finally, I would say that when Dragalge can work, IT DOES WORK. But when it can't, it fails miserably :(

Replays: This was low ladder, so not that many replays, I got one of Dragalge forcing a rage quit when the only opponent's Sludge Bomb switch-in (Drapion) died early. I guess that works?? http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-142476086

My team is absolute trash, since I built it at 2 AM, but you can look at it if you want

Hide

Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Scald
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Zoroark @ Expert Belt
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- Grass Knot
- U-turn

Escavalier @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Drill Run

Scyther @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Aerial Ace
- Bug Bite
- Quick Attack

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Ice Punch

Skuntank @ Leftovers
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt
- Poison Jab

So yeah, that's my overall analysis of Dragalge. Hope you enjoyed :)

 

[g]

I wanted to see more discussion but the winner of this week is Mizgoo!
Week 5 will be up soon so please someone lock c:

 

[migzoo]

Mizgoo

screw u galbia, cant even spell my name right :[

EDIT: In other news, Sigilyph is aight. Not quite good, but definitely usable. To be honest, Yanmega + Sigilyph didn't work quite as well as I expected/hoped, but I stuck to it and it did me pretty well. Admittedly, my team besides Sigilyph was standard as fuck, so that probably helped. At first I used All-out Attacking LO Magic Guard Sigi, with Ice Beam / Energy Ball / Psychic / Heat Wave. Later, I decided to switch out Heat Wave out for Calm Mind, since I found that Heat Wave wasn't hitting all that much; it doesn't do enough to Escavalier or Registeel for me to be staying in anyways. Calm Mind Sigi worked a bit better. Sigi at neutral often doesn't hit hard enough, but Sigi at +1 hits plenty. Also, it sets up pretty easily on a bunch of common walls: Alomomola, Tangrowth and Amoonguss (if Sigi has been statused already or something else is asleep), Gligar, Slowking, and most importantly, Aromatisse, who would normally be able to beat LO Sigi. It almost works like BU Braviary in this regard. Granted, Tangrowth and Gligar can hurt and cripple Sigi with Knock Off. Also, in retrospect, CM Sigi wishes Shuckle was still around, since it would greatly benefit from Webs. It's outsped by several things that can revenge kill it, like Delphox, Cobalion, Jolteon, and Zoroark.

So yeah, overall, Offensive CM Sigilyph is decent in this meta, being able to set up on and beat most common walls. However, it sometimes can't hit hard enough at neutral, and is outsped and killed by several common threats.