XY NU Theorymon Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
More thoughts here (Same formula as the last time I did this):

  • Camerupt probably will see usage if we get the 2 RU (Offensive) grass-types (+ Fire-types) as a hard counter to both. Specially Defensive variants have no problem taking hits from Lilligant and >_< Rotom-C (BL3 Prediction, though a bit too early). The only two Grass-types in the potential tier that beat it are Ludicolo and RestTalk Gogoat (And some mixed and Physical attackers). Oh well, at least it makes good partners with birds.
  • Ferroseed will be set-up fodder for many Pokemon in the tier, mainly Substitute users such as Ninetales and BulkUp Gurrdurr (Though I doubt this set will be that common anymore).
  • In terms of spinners, we may get Sandslash, Avalugg, Hitmonchan, Claydol and Cryogonal (In terms of most viable users, though Hitmonchan would rather fit in another move than spin but whatever). Claydol is set-up fodder for pretty much anything that's not an Electric-type. Sandslash could be a decent physical wall using a moveset of Knock Off/EQ/Rapid Spin/SD (Or X-Scissor if you can predict Jynx, Lilligant (Who was one of the best check/counter to it last gen), Ludicolo and Shiftry switch-ins and such; Or Stone Edge so you are not beaten by birds) Cryogonal seems to be the best of the new spinners, due to a very good ability for a spinner and decent speed and Special Attack. Avalugg is pretty much slow and physically bulky and physically offensive Cryogonal.
  • We will only get about 4 defensive Fairies (Lol Spritzee). Granbull, Floette, Togetic and Wigglytuff. Granbull and Togetic will be decent, Wigglytuff okay, and Floette a bit outclassed.
  • If Hariyama drops, we will get another great bulky-like Fighting-type that is very versatile. All 3 of it's abilities can be useful in one way or another. Sucks it's best STAB to abuse Sheer Force is Force Palm :(.
  • Aurorus won't be very good, unfortunately (I think it has a pretty sleek design). The only way it can outspeed potential common threats is Timid Scarf, and even that misses out on a few Pokemon. (Scarf BlizzSpam has potential, though) It has many weaknesses common in the tier (Grass, Water, Rock, Fighting, Ground) and it's frail and slow, meaning that Pokemon like Sawk can easily beat it without any trouble. Maybe potential on TR teams, but I don't know yet.
  • Linoone may end up becoming the tier's Slurpuff. The issues it had last gen are present, but it got 2 buffs (Shadow Claw hitting steels and Play Rough). BD/Extreme Speed/Play Rough (Seed Bomb)/Shadow Claw will probably be the most popular set. Another Pokemon that got improved.
Anyways more probably tomorrow. (Also potential Rotom-Frost usage increase this gen?)
 

Expulso

Morse code, if I'm talking I'm clicking
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Okay I'll make this quick.

What stops Klinklang? Steels.
What trapps Steels? Magneton.

GG :)
 

Blast

Member of the Alien Nation
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
So now that the first month of RU Beta stats have been posted (going off the 1695 stats just for reference), we finally have a first real glimpse at what XY NU may hold in store for us. It's still only the first month and all but it's still a pretty good idea of what we're likely to see. So without further ado:

Here's a list of the Pokémon from BW NU that won't be rejoining us this gen:
Alomomola, Ampharos, Banette, Braviary, Charizard, Eelektross, Exploud, Gardevoir, Golbat, Mandibuzz, Mawile, Pinsir, Skuntank

And a list of NU newcomers:
Accelgor, Archeops, Avalugg, Aurorus, Barbaracle, Bouffalant, Carbink, Crustle, Cryogonal, Dedenne, Dragalge, Durant, Dusclops, Dusknoir, Feraligatr, Ferroseed, Furfrou, Gogoat, Gourgeist (all sizes), Hariyama, Jynx, Klinklang, Lanturn, Lilligant, Magmortar, Magneton, Malamar, Mesprit, Meowstic, Mismagius, Ninetales, Omastar, Pangoro, Politoed, Poliwrath, Pyroar, Qwilfish, Rotom-N, Rhydon, Sceptile, Sandslash, Scyther, Sigilyph, Spiritomb, Steelix, Typhlosion, Uxie, Venomoth, Virizion, Vivilion, Xatu

as well as all Kalos NFEs (including Doublade).

Also, just to be clear, Aromatisse and Slurpuff will not be joining NU this gen, while Granbull and Kangaskhan will.

Anyway, it's pretty evident that pure theorymon is kind of impossible at this point lol; with so many former NU staples bidding their farewells and an absolute fuckton of new stuff to rock the tier upside the butt, I think it goes without saying that we're gonna have to play some games for ourselves to see what lies ahead. I'll probably do this myself and come back with results but let's see if somebody can't beat me to it :toast:
 
Last edited:

Vryheid

fudge jelly
The loss of Sableye in RU will probably mean Spiritomb usage will shoot up significantly, and Durant has become a lot more popular as a replacement for Escavalier as of late. I don't think either one will end up in NU.
 
I doubt that Mismagius (Trust me, it's low usage was probably caused by Froslass), Xatu (Though it will be cool as shit to have in NU), Venomoth (This is broken in RU LOL), Durant (This thing is amazing in RU, surprised it made it below the cutoff), Sceptile and Virizion (Imo the best offensive Grass-type in RU now due to Shay's UU movement) will stay in NU usage (Especially once certain mons get banned). Everyone else probably will stay.
 
Last edited:

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
Now that we have gotten our first indication of what NU will look like this gen, I will be making some points on things that will probably drop that are exciting, dropping things that are probably borked and things that used to be NU but probably won't be this gen.

Things I'm excited for:
  • Doublade somehow is way below cutoff, and I'm excited to use it, considering it has Mega-Aggron tier physical bulk with Eviolite. Doesn't even give a fuck about non-STAB SE hits (252+ Atk Barbaracle Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 98-116 (30.4 - 36%) -- 42.2% chance to 3HKO) so basically any physical attacker can become setup fodder for Doublade. SD is definitely the most potent set because of this, but I'd imagine a more defensive set with RestTalk might be usable too. Do watch out for stray Knock Offs though. (By the way, it's a really good Jynx killer, hoorah!)
  • Scyther sits at a scary speed tier of base 105. I think it will function much like it did in RU last gen, being able to run both SD sweeper sets and CB sets. Scarf sets could work too I suppose, but they might lack the power to do really well. Still a nice threat though.
  • Spiritomb, if it ends up dropping, will be really great, being able to take on some really scary things (Sawk will wreck the meta, Tomb is the only thing that is immune to its STAB while not being weak to any of its coverage moves, same goes for Zangoose etc) as well as functioning as the most reliable spinblocker (specially defensive takes on Cryogonal ez, while also being able to deal with Sandslash etc). It's very versatile too, being able to pull of its RestTalk + CM set very well (NU won't get many fairies, fighting types are fodder for Spiritomb and the dark types of NU tend to be very frail, so Dark Pulse can blast thru nearly anything), as well as the previously mentioned more defensive sets. It can also become NU's premier Pursuit trapper, now that Skuntank will leave by the looks of it (will get back on that later)
  • Somehow all Gourgeist formes are making it to NU. Looks like we're getting a fair amount of bulky Ghost types, NU (I'd mention Dusclops and Dusknoir but they're horribly outclassed even in NU, lol). Nothing much to say about it, it'll make for a great physically defensive ghost and, in the case of Gourgeist-S, an annoying af SubSeeder.
  • There are a couple of new things that can provide hazards, all with their own thing to them. We've got Qwilfish (bulky with Intimidate, great typing, good support movepool), Crustle (can't run a Custap set atm, sadly, but it is one of the few things in NU to receive all forms of hazards and it can Shell Smash), Ferroseed (amazing typing and bulk, access to SR + Spikes), Rhydon (TANK), Mesprit (versatile af), Accelgor (takes over Scolipede's role, but trades more bulk + access to Tspikes for even more speed and Encore), Steelix (BALK), Dragalge (Tspikes, unique typing, is dragon) and some more, although nobody's really getting excited about Carbink and friends I think =/
  • Oh by the way, some mons that were NU last gen have gotten some buffs in the hazards department. We have some Sticky Webbers, most notably Shuckle (the bulkiest and most reliable one), Leavanny (the best offensive webber) and Masquerain (can Intimidate or smth?). Weezing has received Tspikes this gen, giving it utility outside of walling physical sweepers and burning shit.
  • With all these new ways to spam hazards, there must be some reliable hazard control, r-r-right? Luckily we have Cryogonal (fast, lots of special bulk, reliable recovery, Spikes immunity), Sandslash (good typing for a spinner, Knock Off to dick on some spinblockers), Avalugg (is bulk), Togetic (is Defog, is fairy), Shiftry (also has Defog, probably the best option for hazard control on offensive teams), Xatu (Magic Bounce, reliable dual screeners, a total bitch to face imo) and of course the old spinners that no one gives a fuck about (rot in hell, Armaldo). Hopefully we will also receive Hitmonchan, seeing how it is dangerously close to dropping and pretty much entirely outclassed by anything in RU (so stop using it there (BAN ME PLEASE)s). Hopefully Golbat will drop too, it's the closest thing we've got for a Mandibuzz substitute. Also, Kabutops is dangerously close to dropping but I do not want to see that thing down here (muh swift swim)
  • Granbull will have to defend the pride of the Fairy types, seeing how NU will be pretty devoid of viable Fairies outside of him, Wigglytuff and Togetic (Floette is garbdix don't use it). Luckily, Intimidate + his new typing make him a great physically defensive pivot that can paralyze targets, cleric and do some pretty heavy damage in the meantime.
  • Gogoat is rad af. Bulk Up sets are rad, specially defensive sets are rad, LO sets are rad, is goat :]
  • Typhlosion is basically Charizard, except it trades dual STAB and versatility for a fast and powerful Eruption and a lighter weakness to rocks.
  • There's more but fuk u

Things I am scared of ;_; (AKA ban plz)
  • Venomoth somehow made it just below cutoff in 1695 stats (wth) and that thing is fucking OP, hopefully Molk bans it in RU before it can do big dommage to NU
  • Sawk is fucking scary ok, thanks to Knock Off it can cripple the few safe switchins it had left, making it 2scary4me imo. Same goes for Zangoose btw, that thing can now destroy the tier in peace :[
  • Uxie is like, extremely versatile and bulky, it's a crazy good screener and rocks setter. SubCM can do damage, it's pretty fast, I don't want it down here. :[
  • Magneton hits super hard with Specs + Analytic and has plenty of switchin opportunity, while it can also trap steels with Magnet Pull or become more speedy with Choice Scarf. I'm not sure if NU can handle the power it brings.
  • Although it's more of a borderline case for me, Mismagius seems very scary, having access to Nasty Plot and a great Speed stat to sweep teams with ease (Shadow Ball + Dazzling Gleam has perfect neutral coverage in NU outside of Pyroar), so only that and other bulky Normal types can reliably wall it (although many of them are hard-pressed to do anything in return). SubCM is a possibility too, as is a more defensive sets that can burn many a thing. If it weren't so fast, it'd be easy to deal with, but base 105 speed is very scary, especially in the somewhat slow NU.
  • Yeah, sure, Archeops has Defeatist, but who gives a fuck when it destroys almost everything with that speed + power?
  • that's it probably altho there might be more potentially OP threats idk
Shit that left the tier (rip in peace ;_;)
  • Skuntank leaving means that Pursuit trapping will become less common. The best alternatives for it are probably Liepard and Spiritomb, who both get STAB on it, but nothing will do it as reliably as Skunk (why the fuck does Pangoro not learn Pursuit holy hell what a shit tier movepool this mon has)
  • Alomomola leaves, FUCK. Stall can probably manage without the damn thing (forgot to mention it before, but we have Lanturn now :o), but it won't appreciate the loss of big fish. Only Wigglytuff's Wishes come close to the greatness of Momola's Wishes, but Wigglytuff is much less bulky and lacks Regenerator :[
  • Charizard leaves, but luckily (or maybe not) Typhlosion, Magmortar and Pyroar will do just fine in being fast Fire types to make up for the loss of big barning thing.
  • Not having Mandibuzz and Golbat would be quite a pity, seeing as these two were great at stalling as well as stallbreaking, but I can see Golbat dropping eventually.
  • Braviary leaving means that we won't have to worry about its SubBU set, which was incredibly stupid last gen imo. We seriously lack any great flying types that did the things Braviary did, though. Swellow for best bird (except Pelipper is better but w/e)
  • Eelektross will probably drop once Tornauds is banned from RU, seeing how it was mostly used there because it's such a good stop to Raikou and Tornadus.
  • Don't care about the rest, lel

ok bye
 

scorpdestroyer

it's a skorupi egg
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
gonna theorymon a bit here:

Doublade @ Eviolite
Trait: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance / Pursuit

If there were a complete viable Jynx counter, Doublade has got to be the one. Doublade really only fears Trick, but pair it with teammates such as Omastar or Carracosta and the opponent will think twice about Tricking the Scarf. (I guess Lovely Kiss can spoil it but sleep's nerf means it's a lot less crippling) Doublade can then switch in and checkmate Jynx with the threat Pursuit or Gyro Ball. Doublade's fantastic typing also means it counters Virizion, Sceptile, Primeape, Swellow, Kangaskhan, etc etc. If not for Zangoose and Sawk's Knock Off spam, I can imagine that this would become a staple on NU teams that need a pivot or late-game sweeper. Despite looking very weak, base 110 Attack isn't something to look down on, and with Gyro Ball being more than 100 BP most of the time, Doublade actually hits reasonably hard enough to KO the threats that it needs to.

(to give you an idea, Tauros has a base 100 Atk stat, so if we factor in the slightly lower base power of Gyro Ball, Doublade hits about just as hard)

252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 79-93 (24.5 - 28.8%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 101-120 (31.3 - 37.2%) -- 76.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Primeape Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 134-158 (41.6 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ SpA Lilligant Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 224-264 (69.5 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 90-108 (27.9 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 138-164 (42.8 - 50.9%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (104 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan: 201-237 (57.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO [Adamant Kangaskhan]
252+ Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (118 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primeape: 285-336 (104.7 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO [Jolly Choice Band Primeape]
252+ Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (138 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 313-369 (110.9 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO [Timid Sceptile]
252+ Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (104 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 211-249 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery [Timid +0 Lilligant]
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant: 82-97 (29.1 - 34.5%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (129 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 270-318 (83.3 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery [Jolly Virizion]


Decent partners for Doublade would include Omastar and Virizion, because these threats appreciate Doublade's ability to continuously switch into Choice Scarf Jynx, and at the same time discourage Jynx from Tricking its Scarf onto Doublade. Of course, methods of removing opponents like Steelix would allow Swords Dance Doublade to sweep late game. Finally, something that can take a few hits from Sawk and Zangoose are appreciated. Unfortunately there aren't a lot out there, but things like Weezing or Garbodor can switch into any move not named Earthquake or Facade, Tangela can pivot in once or twice although it doesn't like Knock Off that much, and if you're willing to do so you can even throw on a Spiritomb although that makes Doublade's role a little less prominent.

Also:

Magmortar @ Expert Belt
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 20 Atk / 216 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Focus Blast

Typhlosion @ Choice Specs
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Sleep Talk

(still theorymon)

So right now this sounds like a very, very powerful core. Basically the point of this is for Magmortar to lure in the core's checks and counters for Typhlosion to sweep. Counters to Fire-types generally include bulky Water-types, Rock-types, and Ninetales. Guess what? Magmortar can weaken all of them to the point where Typhlosion can sweep. Expert Belt is just icing on the cake; it allows Magmortar to possibly bluff a Specs set and blast through a counter that thinks it is safe:

20 Atk Expert Belt Magmortar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninetales: 216-254 (75.26 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
216+ SpA Expert Belt Magmortar Hidden Power Grass vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Seismitoad: 451-533 (112.46 - 132.91%) -- guaranteed OHKO
216+ SpA Expert Belt Magmortar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 245-288 (57.78 - 67.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

then Typhlosion cleans up:

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 241-285 (56.83 - 67.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Politoed: 117-138 (30.46 - 35.93%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (Magmortar's 2 Tbolts + this will kill Politoed)


So, Fire spam looks incredibly dangerous right now, especially when NU suddenly has so many hazard removing options including Xatu, Defog Shiftry, and GOOD RAPID SPINNERS like Cryogonal. What are your thoughts on Fire spam and how would you counter it?
 
Last edited:
Where do you guys think Unfezant will end up? Hypnosis + Wish is now a legal combination on the bird, plus he has a nice +10 boost to his attack (it's 115 now). The lack of a strong Flying STAB like Brave Bird ruins his potential quite a bit, but he isn't nearly as prone to being worn down as Swellow is between Hypnosis, slightly better bulk, and no burn damage.
With the extra 10 Attack he was given this generation I have been trying to use him in RU beta. I have had some fun success with Unfezant.

Unfezant @ Scope Lens
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Spe / 248 HP / 8 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Night Slash
- Quick Attack
- Wish
- Detect

He is a great counter to Ghosts, he out speeds most of them and gets essentially a STAB Night Slash due to guaranteed crit. 50% crit on STAB Quick Attack lets you finish off anyone low and you can always use Wish and Detect (I took Detect because it seems cooler then Protect) to heal damage. The wishes aren't as big as other clerics but sometimes it is the unconventional Pokemon that fits into the team. I would say that Stealth Rock is his biggest weakness but it is also a weakness for a lot of Pokemon and even worse for others. I think Stealth Rock was one of the worst moves added to the game but that is a totally different discussion. Maybe Unfezant will get Brave Bird via Move Tutor or maybe Gen 7 will give Flying types their own version of Extreme Speed (Mach One).

Sadly, think you guys are probably right about Unfezant. Hopefully my favorite quail will get Brave Bird or even Drill Peck as a tutor move next gen or something.

Anyways, I'm excited to try out Wigglytuff in the new NU format. I think he's one of the few Pokemon with the Wish + Destiny Bond combo, plus his movepool and HP is expansive. 85 SpA is slightly underwhelming, but still servicable for a support 'mon. What really limits Wigglytuff's viability IMO as a cleric with an offensive presence is the lack of a reliable boosting move. He has Competitive now, which helps, but it requires either strong prediction, a remiss opponent, or Sticky Web (which may or may not be all that common in NU).

I remember using a Counter Wigglytuff set in Gen 5 NU and surprising the hell out of people by counter-killing their Sawk after a Close Combat, but it was a pretty gimmicky (but fun) setup otherwise.
I personally use Assault Vest Wigglytuff.

Wigglytuff @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SAtk / 188 SDef / 68 HP
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball / Psychic / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam

Assault Vest and the EV spread gives you 274 SDef and 438 HP, good bulk to survive. Sticky Web, Intimidate and any Special move that doesn't kill you and happens to lower your stats (Energy Ball is a common one) has become your new friend. Hyper Voice is STAB and bypasses Substitute. Your choice of Flamethrower or Fire Blast either one kills Steel types that might try to switch in or wall you. The last move is up to you or the team. I switch between them all since I simply cannot make up my mind. I never have the move when I need it LOL! Biggest threat is Gunk Shot IMO.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I personally use Assault Vest Wigglytuff.

Wigglytuff @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SAtk / 188 SDef / 68 HP
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball / Psychic / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam

Assault Vest and the EV spread gives you 274 SDef and 438 HP, good bulk to survive. Sticky Web, Intimidate and any Special move that doesn't kill you and happens to lower your stats (Energy Ball is a common one) has become your new friend. Hyper Voice is STAB and bypasses Substitute. Your choice of Flamethrower or Fire Blast either one kills Steel types that might try to switch in or wall you. The last move is up to you or the team. I switch between them all since I simply cannot make up my mind. I never have the move when I need it LOL! Biggest threat is Gunk Shot IMO.
Assault Vest Wigglytuff may look good but the reason to use Wigglytuff at all is because of it's gigantic Wishes. With Alomomomomomomola ( Fuck that name ) now gone to RU Wigglytuff no longer is outclassed by it so it may see some usage this gen along with it's new Fairy typing. However if you take away the ability to use it's huge Wishes you might as well use a bulky attacker like Kangaskhan or Bouffalant.
 
it's a very simple palindrome

alo
mom
ola

I never really got why people found that hard to say lol
Ok whatever Alolomolololomolala.

Back on topic here one Pokemon I am really exited for is Feraligatr. While Feraligatr didn't gain any new buffs this gen I think it is still a solid wallbreaker and I am looking forward to using it in NU ( How did a badass alligator get in the same tier as Luvdisc ).


Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

I don't really know what to say about it other than it will fuck up walls like Regirock, Golem and the new Rhydon allowing Pokemon like Swellow to attempt a sweep. Game freak release Sheer Force dammit.
 
Ok whatever Alolomolololomolala.

Back on topic here one Pokemon I am really exited for is Feraligatr. While Feraligatr didn't gain any new buffs this gen I think it is still a solid wallbreaker and I am looking forward to using it in NU ( How did a badass alligator get in the same tier as Luvdisc ).


Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

I don't really know what to say about it other than it will fuck up walls like Regirock, Golem and the new Rhydon allowing Pokemon like Swellow to attempt a sweep. Game freak release Sheer Force dammit.
I don't really like this set too much as there isn't much reason to pour that many Speed EV's on it. Classic SD Gatr normally runs a bit more bulk as it falls under the base 80 speed tier, so in general there aren't too many things it should focus on outspeeding. Also, you should probably be running Aqua Jet for that speed problem I mentioned then in the other two slots Waterfall and Return give you good enough neutral coverage. But in general, I'd rather use Samurott because Gatr barely has more Attack than it (105 vs 100), and Megahorn hits more important things like Mushy and Tangela a lot harder than Return hits them. I think if Gatr is to really form a niche for itself this gen, it should probably use its Dragon Dance set as NU in general doesn't really have good DD users and Gatr would be one of the best ones next to Fraxure.
 
I don't really like this set too much as there isn't much reason to pour that many Speed EV's on it. Classic SD Gatr normally runs a bit more bulk as it falls under the base 80 speed tier, so in general there aren't too many things it should focus on outspeeding. Also, you should probably be running Aqua Jet for that speed problem I mentioned then in the other two slots Waterfall and Return give you good enough neutral coverage. But in general, I'd rather use Samurott because Gatr barely has more Attack than it (105 vs 100), and Megahorn hits more important things like Mushy and Tangela a lot harder than Return hits them. I think if Gatr is to really form a niche for itself this gen, it should probably use its Dragon Dance set as NU in general doesn't really have good DD users and Gatr would be one of the best ones next to Fraxure.
Yeah i didn't really make a good set but I just made more of a quick set just so I can at least say something about Feraligatr. I am just really exited about using Feraligatr but I need to think about some better sets ( Sub DD and Standard DD looks interesting to me ).
 
Never, ever use Detect over Protect lol. You only get half the PP with Detect(8, versus 16 with protect)

So, looks like Pyroar will be completely irrelevant with Ninetails and Typhlosion around. A lot of good offensive fire types this gen.

Even physically, Rapidash and physical Magmortar are both options.

Simisear doesn't really that great right now with Ninetails and it's better coverage for NP.

Stall is really taking a beating this gen. With knock off nerfing Mushy, Tangela, Roselia and Duosion, plus Alomo, Mandibuzz, and possibly Golbat leaving us, it's lost most of it's main players. Lickilicky's about all that remains as formidable as last gen, though Tangela, Roselia and Mushy are still options. Lanturn, Togetic, Spiritomb, Avalugg, Articuno, Doublade, Dusclops, Furfrou and Cryogonal perhaps can fill this void.

Defog as well as good spinners means that spikes/t-spikes stacking isn't going to be nearly as powerful. Garbodor probably takes a huge dive in usage, especially with Qwilfish around.

Electivire brings a lot of power to NU, with a decent 95 speed as well as a 123 attack stat and decent bulk, as well as good coverage.

Electrode can easily switch in on Chatot thanks to Soundproof, and it has some decent support moves as well.

Rotom Frost and Fan look as threatening and versatile as ever.

Normal Rotom, however, doesn't really have anything to offer, aside from spinblocking, but Dusclops, Golurk, Doublade and Mismagius all are better choices.

Dusknoir is a worthless mon, outclassed by Golurk's higher attack, iron fist and no guard abillities, and STAB EQ offensively, and Dusclops'(both defenses) and Doublade's(physically) greater bulk with eviolite. If you want something with decent offense and will-o-wisp, look no farther than Mismagius and Haunter.


Gorebyss and Huntail's smash passing and Venomoth's quiver passing both look extremely scary.

Since my 3DS doesn't want to allow me to edit that post (:l), a couple things I forgot:

While Electivire was over the cut-off, that was due to Raikou and perhaps Tornadus. With those gone it could easily drop in usage. Same with Eelektross.

Gourgeist(s) are also good spinblockers and they have offensive power and will-o-wisp as well.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In the 2-3 matches i had against #neverused guys this set always performed well


Feraligatr @ Life Orb/Lum Berry/Lefties
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance
- Return

Pretty straightforward set, set up an SD and sweep. It is a bit different from Snotjoch one but a lot more terrifying. It plays like Samurott last gen with a bit more physical bulk in exchange for the unpredictability (and megahorn). It sets up on a lot of weak attackers thanks to the HP investment and it can take a leaf blade from Virizion at full health. Return has very good coverage with Waterfall (it misses on Gourgeist and Ferroseed but w/e) and is very strong after a boost and Aqua Jet negates the need of speed investment as it is very powerful at +2 OHKOing faster threats such as Electrode, Venomoth and Chatot and even revenge killing them in a Pinch if they have taken a bit of prior damage. Life orb is the preferred item for power as this set aims to sweep but Lefties and Lum have their uses. You might put some more evs in speed for sure but i'll calc them later.
 
Some other things I will make opinions of:

Grass looks to be a pretty common type in the tier. Though it's likely that Sceptile's and Virizion's lower usage was because of Shaymin, and since that's gone in RU, don't count on those 2 being NU for long (Either that or more Rotom-C :P). However, we are likely getting Ferroseed (Dies to Fire-types and Knock Off users but still bulky af), Lilligant (Muh Quiver Dance), Gogoat (Reliable recovery on a Grass-type is always great, and Gogoat is pretty damn bulky too) and Gourgeist (Pumpkinface), all of which having unique niches in the tier.

Whether the BP nerf will affect QuiverPassing or SmashPassing is unknown. If so, however, would Venomoth still be "broken" per say?

If there's one niche that Rotom-N has, it's that it is one of the only Electric-types in the tier to be immune to Ground.

I really don't want Durant in NU. Honestly it's a pretty obvious BL3 candidate if it manages to go below cutoff after July(?). It's Hone Claws set can punch major holes on teams without a physical wall or Fire-type. Though if for some reason Escavalier goes to UU or gets banned in RU, Durant usage will likely go up. I shouldn't count on it staying either way.

Chatot goes from being mediocre af to being a major threat. Mainly due to Boomburst. Hopefully in Pokemon Z or whatever they give it Heat Wave.

Sticky Web looks to be a pretty good strategy, with many abusers to boot (A lot of the drops, Kingler, Ursaring etc.) If Shuckle stays in NU it would actually be the best abuser. However, Pokemon like Primeape and Malamar can take advantage of Sticky Web if it's set up.

Cryogonal gives the tier a GOOD spinner. The fact it's immune to Sticky Web and the Spikes helps it too. Hopefully this thing doesn't turn out to be underwhelming.
 
The thing about Cryogonal was its impressive usage in RU even with Entei and Typhlosion in the tier. It still managed to be a great spinner and I doubt that it'll be underwhelming. A Feraligatr/Cryogonal would look to be a great core, also being able to dispatch of threats like Archeops and Sceptile for its partner.

I really like Gourgeist. WoW and Leech Seed helps its ofensive pressure. Pain Split is good for recovery considering our high HP mons in this tier and Gourgeist walls many threats like Feraligatr and Virizon, and I don't see common switchins enjoying a WoW or Leech Seed. With SR, fires and ices won't like taking so much hazard damage, and a good switch to Feraligatr could end it.
 
I'm actually surprised people are forgetting about Sigilyph. It's actually a very cool mon in the potential tier (As well as being underrated as fuck in RU), and not just because it's the only Flying-type not to give a shit about Stealth Rock. The Calm Mind set functions much like a faster version of Reuniclus' CM set. I expect it to be one of the tier's dominating Psychic-types if it manages to stay. (And also a Physically bulky CM set is a great Virizion counter) You can also go Psycho Shift but ehh.............. (Also forgot to mention no Life Orb recoil due to it's ability)
 
Last edited:

Bummer

Jamming to the beat
is a Top Artist Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
And a list of NU newcomers:
Accelgor, Archeops, Avalugg, Aurorus, Barbaracle, Bouffalant, Carbink, Crustle, Cryogonal, Dedenne, Dragalge, Durant, Dusclops, Dusknoir, Feraligatr, Ferroseed, Furfrou, Gogoat, Gourgeist (all sizes), Hariyama, Jynx, Klinklang, Lanturn, Lilligant, Magmortar, Magneton, Malamar, Mesprit, Meowstic, Mismagius, Ninetales, Omastar, Pangoro, Politoed, Poliwrath, Pyroar, Qwilfish, Rotom-N, Rhydon, Sceptile, Sandslash, Scyther, Sigilyph, Spiritomb, Steelix, Typhlosion, Uxie, Venomoth, Virizion, Vivilion, Xatu

as well as all Kalos NFEs (including Doublade).
Man, where to even begin. My rant about Sawk earlier seems pretty miniscule now compared to these dunderheads (although he's still dangerous in his own right). Bolded ones are what I fear the most right now, by either being real powerful from the start, or having plenty of set-up opportunities. I'm more iffy about the italized names, but I suppose they can be handled appropriately despite their threatening potential. Now, RU still needs to get its shit together, but even if only half of the above names end up in NU, things are going to look mighty different. Oughta go check out more RU analyses before I start talking out of my ass regarding these newcomers, but still, I'm looking forward playing in this mess.
 
From playing ~20 XY NU rounds (Based on RU 1695 Stats) with my NU Buddies,
Typhlosion + Pyroar are confirmed as new based Charizard, slightly faster and better without super SR Weakness even.
Spiritomb + Virizion is a beast core.
Sand is balla when played right.
Barbaracle, Omastar, and Carracosta are absolute monsters this gen, especially when equipped with bs like Weakness Policy or Lum (LO isn't that mlg this gen on costa sorry.)
Magneton is mildly underwhelming this gen.
LO Sheer Force Steelix is literally NU Offense's best possible lead, it's so damn good.
BUGS OP #VENOMOTH #SCYTHER

am i missing anything Dat Blast idke
 
Accelgor is gonna be a great revenge killer in NU this gen. His main STAB move, Bug Buzz, goes through subs now; he's the second fastest Pokemon in the tier behind Ninjask, and he has a solid 100 base SpA stat by NU standards, with good coverage options in Giga Drain/Energy Ball, Focus Blast, and HP Rock. He could utilize either a LO or Choice Specs for the extra power, and Sticky Hold to prevent Knock Off spam (provided he doesn't die in one hit). NU doesn't look like a priority-heavy meta so far, which also works in his favor.

I suppose support sets with Encore and Spikes could also be used to pretty good effect, as well.

With the extra 10 Attack he was given this generation I have been trying to use him in RU beta. I have had some fun success with Unfezant.
Unfezant @ Scope Lens
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Spe / 248 HP / 8 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Night Slash
- Quick Attack
- Wish
- Detect
He is a great counter to Ghosts, he out speeds most of them and gets essentially a STAB Night Slash due to guaranteed crit. 50% crit on STAB Quick Attack lets you finish off anyone low and you can always use Wish and Detect (I took Detect because it seems cooler then Protect) to heal damage. The wishes aren't as big as other clerics but sometimes it is the unconventional Pokemon that fits into the team. I would say that Stealth Rock is his biggest weakness but it is also a weakness for a lot of Pokemon and even worse for others. I think Stealth Rock was one of the worst moves added to the game but that is a totally different discussion. Maybe Unfezant will get Brave Bird via Move Tutor or maybe Gen 7 will give Flying types their own version of Extreme Speed (Mach One).
I personally use Assault Vest Wigglytuff.
Wigglytuff @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SAtk / 188 SDef / 68 HP
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball / Psychic / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
Assault Vest and the EV spread gives you 274 SDef and 438 HP, good bulk to survive. Sticky Web, Intimidate and any Special move that doesn't kill you and happens to lower your stats (Energy Ball is a common one) has become your new friend. Hyper Voice is STAB and bypasses Substitute. Your choice of Flamethrower or Fire Blast either one kills Steel types that might try to switch in or wall you. The last move is up to you or the team. I switch between them all since I simply cannot make up my mind. I never have the move when I need it LOL! Biggest threat is Gunk Shot IMO.
Both of these seem like interesting sets. Though massive Wishes is seen as Wigglytuff's real niche in the NU tier with Alomomola gone, I think it's great to see people trying different things. I'll have to try 'em out myself, thanks!

The only NU Pokemon that commonly carry Gunk Shot are Arbok, Muk, and Garbodor, and Wigglytuff can take care of them with Psychic. Well, maybe not AV Muk. That thing's nasty.
 
Last edited:

jake

underdog of the year
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
o, i forgot this thread still exists!! i built around ten teams, though most were kinda bad. a few things:
  • few fairies of note. togetic and granbull the only ones worth discussing probably, and even then they're not some kind of staple pokemon.
  • sand is good. i used baby hippo + sandslash + band stoutland and the three did a lot of work with smart play of hippo and a good, solid core around them.
  • hail is not so good. the advantage of sand is that sandslash + stoutland are both strong on their own and function very well with the huge speed boost; hail abusers aren't as inclined to coming and going thanks to SR weakness shared by both the hail setter and all abusers, and most are built for stalling / long term activities like subprotect glaceon. the weather nerf really did a number on the playstyle of hail teams.
  • dd gatr and sd gatr are both cool, i liked pairing dd feraligatr with sd samurott.
  • gurdurr is absolutely still the best offensive glue, even though it is dead weight with granbull sticking its nose into places.
  • sawk was strong, but not as overwhelming as i thought it'd be.
  • virizion and sceptile are both very powerful, and even though we will probably lose one or possibly both to RU since shaymin moved up, i wouldn't be surprised to see them dominate the competition in NU.
  • don't forget about normals!! tauros, zangoose, kanga are all very viable and strong still.
  • durant is fckn nuts. it probably should not be down here. venomoth is very very strong too.
  • cryogonal / shiftry are going to be the go-to hazard removers for offense imo. both are very strong, and the former is more consistent while the latter is probably more useful overall. both are cool though
 
Last edited:
o, i forgot this thread still exists!! i built around ten teams, though most were kinda bad. a few things:
  • few fairies of note. togetic and granbull the only ones worth discussing probably, and even then they're not some kind of staple pokemon.
  • sand is good. i used baby hippo + sandslash + band stoutland and the three did a lot of work with smart play of hippo and a good, solid core around them.
  • hail is not so good. the advantage of sand is that sandslash + stoutland are both strong on their own and function very well with the huge speed boost; hail abusers aren't as inclined to coming and going thanks to SR weakness shared by both the hail setter and all abusers, and most are built for stalling / long term activities like subprotect glaceon. the weather nerf really did a number on the playstyle of hail teams.
  • dd gatr and sd gatr are both cool, i liked pairing dd feraligatr with sd samurott.
  • gurdurr is absolutely still the best offensive glue, even though it is dead weight with granbull sticking its nose into places.
  • sawk was strong, but not as overwhelming as i thought it'd be.
  • virizion and sceptile are both very powerful, and even though we will probably lose one or possibly both to RU since shaymin moved up, i wouldn't be surprised to see them dominate the competition in NU.
  • don't forget about normals!! tauros, zangoose, kanga are all very viable and strong still.
  • durant is fckn nuts. it probably should not be down here. venomoth is very very strong too.
  • cryogonal / shiftry are going to be the go-to hazard removers for offense imo. both are very strong, and the former is more consistent while the latter is probably more useful overall. both are cool though
Confirm Baby Hippo + LO Sandslash + Stoutland good got rekt by zeb.

I also want to bring up the all but forgotten Lanturn!, who is just so good on bulky offense as a defensive or offensive tank, supporting your team with slow-ish volt switches, heal bell, and respectably powerful attacks while being able to tank a multitude of attacks due to 125 base HP.
 
ive been using assault vest lanturn and it's pretty cool. not sure if i like it more or less than leftovers. it tanks like a motherfucker though. needs wish support or something cause it gets worn down pretty quick tanking hits and sr damage, if there's weather too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top