X&Y LITTLE CUP VICTIM OF THE WEEK (Week 5, SD Gligar) (SEE POST 207)

[Chieliee]

Reserving resttalk munchers

Yea resttalk is cool cuz u have longevity even after knock off, you aren't prone to status and u live strong hits

Munchlax @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 SDef
Careful Nature
- Ice Punch
- Return
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

236+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Munchlax: 9-12 (30 - 40%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO (9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 12)

holy shit yanma is strong

236 Atk Munchlax Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanma: 18-22 (78.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 22)

return does exactly as much, but with different damage variations. lc so weird omfg:

236 Atk Munchlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanma: 18-22 (78.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(18, 18, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 22)

if he kills you on the third hit he'll die to LO recoil if you did min damage. (yanmas HP is 23, -2 for each Life Orb Usage

if he doesn't hypnosis/it misses twice, you have to get really unlucky with sleep talk.

this set can lose, but only if oppo gets lucky with max damages/hypnosis hit/sleep talk. I think you'll win like 95% of the time.

you can run fire punch or curse over ice punch but ice punch is cool for gligar

 

[Shouting]

Mantyke is mine!

Mantyke @ Eviolte
Water Absorb
156 HP / 36 Def / 116 SAtk / 196 SDef
Calm Nature
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Scald
~ Air Slash

236+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Air Slash vs. 156 HP / 196+ SpD Eviolite Mantyke: 8-9 (34.7 - 39.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Even with stealth rock in play, Yanma will basically never 2HKO, while Air Slash coming from Mantyke will KO 75% of the time at full health (probably goes to 100% after a life orb attack)

So yeah, you can use this thing against Sun too, it can take Life Orb Tangela like a boss (it gets shaky with stealth rock though) as well as Vulpix. It can also be used as a decent / ok check to Timburr, Gilgar, and Meditite without Psychic STAB.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Archen @ Eviolite
Ability: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 236 SDef / 116 Spd / 76 Def / 76 HP
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Earthquake

This set absolutely does not give a damn about the given Yanma set. It walls every single move; Bug Buzz and Air Slash are resisted, and HP Ground does nothing. Rock Slide is an obvious OHKO, and Stealth Rock is there to severely punish Yanma for switching out, which it can only do twice, ensuring that Archen can deal with Yanma easily and without much trouble throughout a match. With Hypnosis's shaky accuracy and with Sleep status lasting shorter than ever this generation, Archen honestly does not care about it. All Archen needs is really just one turn to use Stealth Rock (doesn't matter if it switches out to a check) and the war is practically won. The given Yanma set does not have Berry Juice or Roost, so it won't be regaining any health lost to the 4x weak Stealth Rock damage it takes or the Life Orb recoil it inflicts upon itself. In addition, lack of Compound Eyes as its ability makes Hypnosis incredibly risky to use, especially since one Rock Slide is all it takes to end it, while Yanma can deal practically no damage in return, and Archen can heal continuously with Roost.

As far as metagame viability goes, Archen also walls popular Pokemon such as Gligar and Murkrow, and Earthquake is on the set to hit things that resist Rock Slide, notably Magnemite.

 

[Pokechampion]

Magby @ Eviolite
Trait:Vital Spirit
Modest Nature
EV's: 40 hp/190 spe att/72 spe def/170 spe
-Flare Blitz
-Thunder Punch
-Iron Tail(rocks)
-Confuse Ray

i switched from natu but magby cant be put asleep from vital spirit,and resists bug buzz switch then Flare Blitz,Yanma wont handle that.
SWitch speed and Spe def if u want it 2 just counter yanma and survive 2+ air slash.

 

[kingmidas]

reserving restalk spritzee

 

[Chieliee]

Natu @Eviolite/Focus sash/Choice Scarf
Trait:Magic Bounce
Timid/Modest Nature
EVs: 40/0/0/190/52/190
-Psychic
-Air Slash
-Shadow Ball
-Quick Attack

Natu can safely switch in an obvious hypnosis and get it to bounce back at yanma which pretty much makes it useless, I beleive natu could also live an airslash/bug buzz then revenge kill it with air slash, if it survives quick attack it for priority(well life orb lowers the hp so i don't even know how it will survive :p). And if natu cant survive Sash will help it, or just scarf air slash it.

While the idea of using Magic Bounce to block/counter Hypnosis isn't bad, there are some things wrong with this set. First of all, you can't put slashes, that's against the rules of the thread, so decide onan item and nature. Secondly, I'm sure you lose with sash/scarf if you switch in on Bug Buzz (you don't outspeed because of Speed Boost) I also think both Quick Attack and Shadow Ball are pretty bad moves for Natu, Roost and Heat Wave would be a better option.

And I'm not even sure if you can live 2 Bug Buzzes with Eviolite, but can't calc cause phone

 

[leingodf8]

Hmmm munchylax will probably take the cake but I'll try for something a little more creative I guess.

I'll reserve Mime Jr.

I'll reserve Shuppet

EFF it!, Shuppet is sooo close to countering it but it either loses to bug buzz not activating berry juice all the time (if its SpDef is too high), or not regaining enough HP with berry juice (if HP is too high), so I give it up. And I know that jab down there was at me, and I would use shuppet just so you know, trick room suicide is still somewhat a thing :P.

I'll reserve Chinchou (for realz this time)

(come at me bro)
Chinchou @ Eviolite
Ability: Volt Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 52 Def / 68 SAtk / 148 SDef
Calm Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt
- Scald

This is similar to chinchous flagship set last generation, which was a pretty stellar murkrow counter, and now works as a Yanma counter as well. The relevant calcs are:

236+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Hidden Power Ground vs. 236 HP / 148+ SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 10-13 (37 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

236+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Bug Buzz vs. 236 HP / 148+ SpD Eviolite Chinchou: 9-13 (33.3 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Meanwhile Chinchou counters with:

68 SpA Chinchou Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yanma: 24-30 (104.3 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So basically chinchou will always win the damage war, and even has rest talk to help if it gets put to sleep. Its also a pretty good set overall, as rest/talk is actually pretty decent on chinchou to begin with. Geez... that took a lot longer than it needed too

 

[Electrolyte]

Remember to try and keep your submissions viable to the current meta, guys! We (mostly I) don't want random lower tier Pokemon. Imagine using the Pokemon that you're posting on a team to counter the Victim. You wouldn't want to use something like a Seedot (hypothetically), would you? Then don't post it here.

I have never posted my own set but I am going to now.

Swirlix @ Berry Juice
Ability: Unburden
Level: 5
EVs: 204 SAtk / 204 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flamethrower
- Surf

252+ SpA Swirlix Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yanma: 20-24 (86.9 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

That is an important calc. The infamous Swirlix once again saves the day. Swirlix takes advantage of the fact that Yanma only hits +1 by the time Swirlix comes in with Unburden- so on the first turn you're in, you still outspeed. With the given EVs, Yanma will always 2HKO Swirlix with Air Slash, activating Berry Juice and Unburden. With HP Ground and Bug Buzz, the chance to 2HKO is smaller but with SR up it's almost certain. Once Berry Juice is consumed, you're back up to 100% HP and outspeed even after Speed Boost. Then, Max SpA Flamethrower does just enough to OHKO most of the time after LO recoil.

Swirlix is shaky kind of but still a relatively reliable and easy to play response to Yanma.

EDIT: You can also use HP Rock to hit Yanma but HP Rock hits absolutely nothing else, making it unviable in nearly every other possible situation, and I didn't want to be that guy

 

[Chieliee]

Magby @ Eviolite
Trait:Vital Spirit
Modest Nature
EV's: 40 hp/190 spe att/72 spe def/170 spe
-Flare Blitz
-Thunder Punch
-Iron Tail(rocks)
-Confuse Ray

i switched from natu but magby cant be put asleep from vital spirit,and resists bug buzz switch then Flare Blitz,Yanma wont handle that.
SWitch speed and Spe def if u want it 2 just counter yanma and survive 2+ air slash.

Bug Buzz 28.5 - 38%
Air Slash 57.1 - 76.1%
HP Ground 61.9 - 76.1%

if you switch in on hp ground or air slash, you lose. if you switch in on bug buzz, you might also lose depending on damage rolls

hp ground: (13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 16)
bug buzz: (6, 6, 6, 6, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8)

you still lose about 75% of the time when switchin in on bug buzz

next time, try to do these calculations yourself before blindly posting a set.

 

[apt-get]

reserving munchlax actually

 

[Expulso]

Reserving Rest-Talk Mantyke

Shouting did Mantyke (oops).

 

[Phemeto]

Old gligar post

Any berry juice Gligar will pretty much counter it outside of hypnosis.

Gligar @ Berry Juice
Ability: Immunity
Level: 5
EVs: 236 ATK / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Acrobatics
-Stone Edge / EQ
-filler
-filler

Filler can include Swords Dance, Baton Pass, Knock Off, Taunt, Substitute, Toxic, Roost, All sorts of things.

But basically any of yanma's attacks (best being Air Slash) will hit, then trigger berry juice. This allows gligar to OHKO it with Acrobatics assuming it does not hypnosis, or that it misses.

236+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gligar: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanma: 18-24 (78.2 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
thats with 55 BP even without the attack trigger, which would KO it with any residual damage.
236 Atk Gligar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanma: 44-56 (191.3 - 243.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Then of course we have stone edge if you go that path.

 

[Sergetank]

Yanma's best counter is stealth rock yo

God damn I missed the dwebble voting.

Shit, Munchlax and Mantyke got sets put out already, Midas is slamming down some Spritzee, and I'm hipster as fuck. I'm like late for everything recently blame pokemon y.

Time for more shaky ass counters, here we go. God if only Flying Gem existed but then Flying Gem Gligar would still be a thing too. Damn I'm tired.

Birdemic

Fletchling @ Berry Juice
Ability : Gale Wings
EVs: 80 HP / 196 Attack / 52 Special Defense / 180 Speed
Adamant Nature ( +Attack -Special Attack )
- Acrobatics
- Overheat
- Roost
- Swords Dance

calcs

240+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Bug Buzz vs. 80 HP / 52 SpD Fletchling: 10-12 (45.4 - 54.5%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO
( 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12 )
240+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Air Slash vs. 80 HP / 52 SpD Fletchling: 17-21 (77.2 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanma: 18-24 (78.2 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanma: 32-42 (139.1 - 182.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This is barely a check but god Yanma just dunks and dunks and dunks. And what it can't dunk it puts to sleep and unless I have like a curselax with rest+sleep talk, sleep is always bad for me. Switch in, hopefully into a semi powerful Bug Buzz or weak air slash that doesn't crit ( btw Bug Buzz can't kill thru crit thats a good thing ). Once your berry juice is gone, acrobatics because fuck speed when you have mad ass priority. Boom, dead bug. Was going to put Return on there but normal is gross, plus overheat covers what acrobatics doesn't. Except rock but return wouldn't hit that either and no one uses steel wing. Oh wait Chinchou, shit. Swords Dance is for if you feel like sweeping, yes it's pretty much mono flying but thats not the worst thing to have, hi steel types. Overheat is special for Abomasnow and Ferroseed, roost is when you feel like being normal and getting health back when berry juice is gone, which is kinda hard when you have the defenses of a wet sack.

Yeah if you don't activate berry juice this thing kinda sucks but you know, birds. Could put a lonely nature and put the HP EVs in Special Attack if you really want to hurt ferroseed harder, air slash has a chance to OHKO tho if you do that, if it gets its one highest damage roll ( btw this will only almost OHKO ferroseed if its got max hp, max special + special nature, and eviolite. goddamn ).

Return could be slashed into any of the three slots not named Acrobatics I guess.

tl;dr risky as fuck and relies on actually getting hurt but not dying and not falling asleep

Since it can kill first and ask questions later this falls into the 'wow really this is like really scraping the goddamn bottom of the barrel sergetank' level of counter. Yeah it's shakier than Michael J Fox tap dancing on a vibrating bed during a california earthquake.

But it can still beat the bug, thanks berry juice.

 

[Kavatika]

Any berry juice Gligar will pretty much counter it outside of hypnosis.

Gligar @ Berry Juice
Ability: Immunity
Level: 5
EVs: 236 ATK / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Acrobatics
-Stone Edge / EQ
-filler
-filler

Filler can include Swords Dance, Baton Pass, Knock Off, Taunt, Substitute, Toxic, Roost, All sorts of things.

But basically any of yanma's attacks (best being Air Slash) will hit, then trigger berry juice. This allows gligar to OHKO it with Acrobatics assuming it does not hypnosis, or that it misses.

236+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gligar: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

236 Atk Gligar Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanma: 18-24 (78.2 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
thats with 55 BP even without the attack trigger, which would KO it with any residual damage.
236 Atk Gligar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanma: 44-56 (191.3 - 243.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Then of course we have stone edge if you go that path.

I'd do subsd glig, since it blocks hypnosis and speed ties

 

[leingodf8]

But basically any of yanma's attacks (best being Air Slash) will hit, then trigger berry juice. This allows gligar to OHKO it with Acrobatics assuming it does not hypnosis, or that it misses.

Pretty sure bug buzz doesn't activate berry juice.

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gligar: 8-10 (34.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Funny how berry juice makes it worse for some pokemon to switch into resisted moves.

 

[Phemeto]

Pretty sure bug buzz doesn't activate berry juice.

252+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gligar: 8-10 (34.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Funny how berry juice makes it worse for some pokemon to switch into resisted moves.

Right, except if you're running a sub set to counter hypnosis as kavatika has said, then you get a free sub, activating berry juice an you can proceed to sweep

 

[leingodf8]

Right, except if you're running a sub set to counter hypnosis as kavatika has said, then you get a free sub, activating berry juice an you can proceed to sweep

How do you get a free sub? Assuming you switch in on the bug buzz, the yanma outspeeds you and KOs with air slash.

 

[Phemeto]

How do you get a free sub? Assuming you switch in on the bug buzz, the yanma outspeeds you and KOs with air slash.

.....right ok i have no idea what i was thinking.....think im ganna edit that a bit then...

 

[Renwit355]

Hey, I had a dumb moment (forgot to involve IVs in my spreadsheet), but when trying to solve it, I discovered something.
What is the IV spread of this Yanma and the Hidden Power BP?
If my calc formulas are correct, hidden power ground can't have 31 Special Attack AND Speed IVs (although some extra EV still maximizes the stats).
I was about to say the BP is also under 60, but then I rediscovered that 30 IV still maximize HP's BP (although, what is the HP damage formula now that max BP is 60... I get the feeling the answer is already on this forum).
I guess none of this post matters for this round (I will put what I believe yanma's ending stats are at the bottom), but maybe clarify the IVs for the victim if needed (like for hidden power users) to reduce the chance of posters using the wrong numbers (If I am correct, one of the speed or special attack stat IVs should be 30, therefore meaning that stat's EV should be 240 EV. very minor nit-pick, please don't hate me)
I plan to participate in this thread, but can we post a different set of a pokemon already done (i.e. a munchlax with different move/whatever than another poster's munchlax) or each pokemon species can only be done once (If so, I guess we could make suggestions to the pokemon's poster)?

also, is this formula correct for this generation + Did I simplify it correctly (using microsoft excel-like language)?
Formula?:FLOORED BY 1((Attack*(Level*2/5+2)*Move BP/Defense)/50+2)*STAB Bonus*Type Effectiveness*Damage Modifier (the 0.85~1.00 thing)
Simplied: FLOORED((Attack*4*(Move BP*Other Boosts like Life Orb and Sword Dance)/(Defense and relating boosts))/50+2)*STAB*Type Effectiveness*Damage Modifier


Yanma's ending stats (not taking into consideration Speed Boost or Life Orb, but with Nature changes):
Format:HP/Attack/Defense/Special Attack/Special Defense/Speed
23/11/11/18/11/19

 

[Electrolyte]

Good thing that you bring that up, Renwit355. I have editted the set EVs to make up for the decrease in 1 point of SpA. HP Ground's IVs are 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 30 SPA / 30 SpDef / 31 Spe. The fall in Def doesn't change the stat but 4 EVs were added to SpA to make up for the drop. Nice catch, guys.

Also, for easy stat calculation, you can just plug in the numbers onto Honkalculator and it will automatically calculate the stat for you. For optimal IV spreads by Hidden Power, you can just use Pokemon Showdown's Teambuilder, which also calculates stats. You don't need to do all of that complicated math

Also, Hidden Power can only ever be 60 BP this Gen, so there is no need to consider anything else.

 

[sparktrain]

Good thing that you bring that up, Renwit355. However, HP Ground's IVs don't change Yanma's stats one bit. 31 HP / 31 Atk / 31 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpDef / 31 Spe are optimal IVs for it and the loss of 1 IV in each doesn't alter its stats at all.

Also, for easy stat calculation, you can just plug in the numbers onto Honkalculator and it will automatically calculate the stat for you. For optimal IV spreads by Hidden Power, you can just use Pokemon Showdown's Teambuilder, which also calculates stats. You don't need to do all of that complicated math

Also, it should always be assumed that when a Hidden Power is being considered, it will always be the maximum 60 BP, unless specified otherwise.

I checked on the Pokemon Showdown Teambuilder, and it does appear that HP Ground with the given IVs and EV spread has a slight effect on the stats. With 236 EVs and 30 IVs, Yanma only hits 17 SpA. Adding 4 more EVs raises it to 18 SpA.

As for Yanma, I'm honestly having some trouble finding a unique set considering there's already been a lot of good stuff posted! I really like Archen, it's my go-to guy for dealing with Yanma. The only thing it fears is being put to sleep, or the rare HP Ice.

 

[unitard]

Hoothoot @ Eviolite
Ability: Insomnia
Level: 5
EVs: 68 SAtk / 228 SDef / 196 HP
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Defog / Toxic

Okay so I realize Hoothoot isn't the most viable (sorry Electrolyte) but there aren't that many options and Hoothoot does surprisingly well. Thanks to Insomnia it's not shut down by Hypnosis and is hit neutrally by only Air Slash.

236+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Air Slash vs. 196 HP / 228+ SpD Eviolite Hoothoot: 9-12 (36 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
236+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Air Slash vs. 196 HP / 228+ SpD Eviolite Hoothoot: 9-12 (36 - 48%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Air Slash's 30% flinch chance is unfortunate, but if Yanma stays in and Hoothoot uses Air Slash, there's an 81% chance it'll KO Yanma (Yanma will have taken 2 rounds of LO recoil, leaving it with 1 HP max after LO recoil).

68 SpA Hoothoot Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yanma: 18-24 (78.2 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Roost is recovery, Whirlwind can force Yanma in when SR is up. Defog is the better move for Hoothoot's viability, but it's actually a negative when it comes to countering Yanma, so you can use Toxic instead.

Hoothoot can do a few more things. It can comfortably take a +1 Dazzling Gleam from Swirlix and phaze with Whirlwind. It's decent against Misdreavus, especially those without Thunderbolt. Although it doesn't appreciate Knock Off, it's decent against Defensive Tangela sets and checks LO Tangela in Sun. So basically, it's a way worse version of Vullaby, but maybe it has a small niche because of Yanma?

P.S. I love Archen that thing is so damn good.

 

[ryan]

Voltorb @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Soundproof
Level: 5
EVs: 76 SpA / 236 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Signal Beam

Assuming that Yanma isn't using Hypnosis on the switch (even if they did it wouldn't matter 40% of the time anyways), Voltorb beats it every time. Immune to Bug Buzz, resists Air Slash, and can take an HP Ground even with the highest possible damage roll and then outspeed because it's running Modest without Protect and OHKO back with Thunderbolt. gg get wrecked Yanma.

76 SpA Voltorb Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yanma: 24-30 (104.3 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
236+ SpA Life Orb Yanma Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Voltorb: 13-18 (65 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Electrolyte]

with these last two posts the swag level of this thread rocketed up through the roof

Scarf Voltorb for best revenge killer and Yanma counter hands down

 

[Ray Jay]

Liquidocelot I have to call into question the usage of Pawniard to counter Yanma. Sucker Punch makes no sense to be used in calcs as you are simply asking to get hit by Hypnosis. Your Pawniard set, in order to even check Yanma, has the prerequisite of something else already being asleep and Yanma not being already on the field. Otherwise, you simply die before you ever get the chance to hit it to the combination of Bug Buzz as you switch in + Hypnosis + HP Ground (or iirc another Bug Buzz can actually KO so yeah). From my understanding of Electrolyte's latest post, we're trying to simply compile a list of things that do well against the problematic set, and I don't believe Pawniard truly does well against this (or any) Yanma set.