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"Worst Pokémon Ever"
- Thread starter SapphSabre777
- Start date
The Mind Electric
Calming if you look at it right.
Just looked it up, why does it look like a cheese puff.
You know how that cheese powder gets everywhere.
NuttyRabbit
Banned deucer.
I'll gladly jump at any chance I can get to rant about this worthless pile of trash
Luvdisc in my opinion, is the objective worst Pokemon of all time in just about every category. Let's break it down, shall we?
Design: Let's start with the most obvious thing about it: the design. Now, given that Water is the most common Pokemon type, there's plenty of mediocre to even bad Water type designs, but I find Luvdisc's especially bad since it's so bland. I know it's supposed to be a heart or a discus fish but honestly it just feels like the laziest, most hastily-thrown together execution of that concept. There's nothing visually interesting about it, it's not cool or cute or scary or nothing. It's just "there" in the worst way possible, and it's especially egregious in a region that's full of far more interestingly designed Water types (which you can find in the same places you can find this), and even moreso in the gens following it's inception
Typing: Getting a bit deeper, Luvdisc's typing only adds to the general blandness and badness that permeates this thing's design. Water, as I said, is the most common Pokemon typing, with there being 144 of Generation 8. To make matters worse, Luvdisc is a pure Water type, which makes up more than half of all Water types (with 10 others in Hoenn alone not counting Castform). So already Luvdisc fails to stand out on typing alone from all the other. However, this wouldn't be so egregious if Luvdisc had anything in terms of stats or abilities or even moves to stand out from the others, but as we'll see, it doesn't, at least not in a good way
Stats- And this is where Luvdisc goes from just being another generic Water type to being complete and utter trash. Luvdisc's base stat total alone cements it as total garbage, coming out to a putrid 330 BST. That BST puts it on the same level as first form Pokemon like Zorua, Buizel, Finneon, Aron, and Voltorb, and lower than the likes of Snover. That alone is bad enough, but once you get into the stats proper, it gets even worse. Outside of Speed, Luvdisc does not have a single stat over base 65, which for a single form Pokemon, is absolutely terrible. Remember, those other Pokemon I mentioned? They evolve, they get better stats, but Luvdisc will always be Luvdisc. Now Luvdisc does have a base Speed stat of 97, which on paper doesn't seem terrible. After all, Water is a decent attacking type, so maybe with base 97 speed it could be a speedy attacker? Well no, because Luvdisc's attacking stats are abysmal, with base 30(!) Attack and base 40 Special Attack meaning that it isn't hitting anything (for reference, unless it's both Modest and holding a Life Orb, Luvdisc cannot OHKO uninvested Garchomp from full with Ice Beam, a 4x super effective move). But since its attacking stats are so bad, you may think it's meant to be a faster tank or fast cleric or what have you, but it can't even do that well, not with 43/55/65 defenses it can't. So at least in terms of stats, it can't actually do anything with that decent Speed stat. If Luvdisc's terribleness just stopped at stats, typing, and design, it would already be one of the worst, but the terribleness doesn't stop here. No, in fact, it only accelerates from this point onwards.
Abilities- On paper, Luvdisc's abilities don't seem too terrible. After all, Hydration is a great ability on Pokemon like Manaphy, and Swift Swim is one of the best abilities in the game. However, when you remember its stat line, you realize why these abilities are absolutely terrible for it. See, the intention is that you would use Luvdisc on some sort of Rain team, abusing these two abilities to make it a threat under rain. But here's the issue: Luvdisc can't actually utilize these abilities. After all, given Luvdisc's terrible bulk, why would anything bother trying to status it to activate Hydration when any decently strong move will 2HKO or just plain OHKO it? And while Swift Swim boosts its already strong speed, it doesn't have the offensive stats nor movepool to really take advantage of this, especially not when compared to fellow swift swimmers Mega Swampert, Kingdra, Seismitoad, and Ludicolo (introduced in the same gen no less), all of whom have better typings, better stats, and better moves to actually abuse this ability. And keep in mind, to use these abilities, Luvdisc has to be in rain, so unless you're willing to give up a slot on a rain team for Luvdisc or build a rain team around it specifically, Luvdisc essentially has no abilities, and even when it can use them, it can't use them well.
Moves- This is where it completely falls apart for poor Luvdisc, for even other comparatively terrible Pokemon like Delibird, Furret, Ledian, and Farfetch'd have decent movepools (and better stats comparatively but I digress), but Luvdisc doesn't even get that. At most, Luvdisc gets the standard Water type fare, the same TMs most Pokemon know by default (like Toxic), and some relatively pointless options like Agility, Sweet Kiss, Heart Stamp and Heal Pulse. Even in the HOME leaks all it gets in terms of tutor moves is Scale Shot, which is worthless for it. So even in terms of moves, which can be the saving grace of many an otherwise mediocre or terrible Pokemon, Luvdisc gets absolutely nothing.
In-Game: So we've established by this point that Luvdisc has a generic type, bad stats, near worthless abilities, and a terrible movepool. This is already enough to make it worthless, but at least some of this would be forgivable if it was say, an early-game Pokemon. After all, many early-game Pokemon are generally bad by design, meant to be replaced as you go on or to at least get stronger as they evolve. But here's the thing: not only does Luvdisc not evolve, therefore robbing it of any chance to get better, but Luvdisc tends to be made available in the mid-late game. Why is this bad? Well, by the point you can get Luvdisc in most games, not only do you need something with Surf (usually another Water type) to get to Luvdisc to begin with, meaning that there's a good chance you already have something better than it by default, but by the time you can usually get it, there's far, far better options.
The best examples of this are in Gens 3 and 4, where it is made available in the final city and in the postgame respectively. By the time you get to these points, you have access too and are likely using far, far better Water types, and even if you aren't, there are plenty available in the places you can get it. For example, in Emerald, in the place you can fish to get it, you can also get Wailmer, Magikarp (at Gyarados levels), Pelipper, Tentacool, and even Corsola , all of which are leagues better than it. And in DPP, you have to beat the Elite Four to get the Super Rod you need to get Luvdisc, by which point you should already have a good Water type, but even then there's far better options in the places you can fish to get it.
So by these metrics alone, by the time you can get Luvdisc, there's no reason to ever use it since you should have better options available.
"BUT WAIT!" you may say, "Luvdisc isn't meant to be used in battle, it's meant to be used to farm Heart Scales!". Now first of all, if a Pokemon exists solely to shill an item, that's already bad, but this argument falls apart extremely quickly. The only place it could possibly apply is in RSE, but even then, before you can get Luvdisc, you can already grab up to 14 Heart Scales, which is more than enough for a casual playthrough. But even if you need more if say, you want to play competitively, you don't even need to catch Luvdisc to do it, since you can just give something Thief and have them steal Heart Scales. So the one thing Luvdisc could be used for doesn't even need you to actually use it.
But like I said, it only applies to RSE for in every Pokemon game after where Luvdisc is available, there are also sources of infinite or at the very least near-infinite Heart Scales, whether those be respawning locations on beaches, Festival Plaza floats, daily events, the Underground or other such things, you can easily get Heart Scales without even seeing this garbage excuse for a Pokemon.
Oh, and it isn't available in SwSh because even GF in their incompetence knows that this mon is worthless but even if it did come back, the move relearner is now free so there'd literally be no point in using it. So yeah, Luvdisc is objectively worthless in-game. Hell, even as an HM slave it's worthless since by the time you can get it, you already have access to/are using other HM slaves.
Competitive: Finally, we end on Luvdisc's competitive value or well, lackthereof. Let me put it this way: I have searched through every viability rankings for every tier in every generation, even down to sub-ZU tiers on other forums. I have seen every other garbage Pokemon from Delibird to Ledian to Furret to even Unown ranked and shown to have some level of viability somewhere, no matter how small. But Luvdisc? Luvdisc is not on any viability ranking in any tier in any generation. It's so unviable it has never even been touched in the lowest of low tiers like ADV ZU, where Pokemon like Elekid and Delibird rain supreme. It's completely worthless
So in conclusion, Luvdisc is demonstrably, objectively, the worst Pokemon of all time. It has garbage stats, a garbage design, garbage moves, worthless abilties, is useless both in game and competitively, and has the most generic typing of all time. Every other Pokemon has at least something, anything to make it redeemable, but Luvdisc has literally nothing to its name. It is truly the bottom of the Pokemon barrel, the creme de la creme of garbage.
To everyone who had the patience to read through all of this, thank you.
Luvdisc in my opinion, is the objective worst Pokemon of all time in just about every category. Let's break it down, shall we?
Design: Let's start with the most obvious thing about it: the design. Now, given that Water is the most common Pokemon type, there's plenty of mediocre to even bad Water type designs, but I find Luvdisc's especially bad since it's so bland. I know it's supposed to be a heart or a discus fish but honestly it just feels like the laziest, most hastily-thrown together execution of that concept. There's nothing visually interesting about it, it's not cool or cute or scary or nothing. It's just "there" in the worst way possible, and it's especially egregious in a region that's full of far more interestingly designed Water types (which you can find in the same places you can find this), and even moreso in the gens following it's inception
Typing: Getting a bit deeper, Luvdisc's typing only adds to the general blandness and badness that permeates this thing's design. Water, as I said, is the most common Pokemon typing, with there being 144 of Generation 8. To make matters worse, Luvdisc is a pure Water type, which makes up more than half of all Water types (with 10 others in Hoenn alone not counting Castform). So already Luvdisc fails to stand out on typing alone from all the other. However, this wouldn't be so egregious if Luvdisc had anything in terms of stats or abilities or even moves to stand out from the others, but as we'll see, it doesn't, at least not in a good way
Stats- And this is where Luvdisc goes from just being another generic Water type to being complete and utter trash. Luvdisc's base stat total alone cements it as total garbage, coming out to a putrid 330 BST. That BST puts it on the same level as first form Pokemon like Zorua, Buizel, Finneon, Aron, and Voltorb, and lower than the likes of Snover. That alone is bad enough, but once you get into the stats proper, it gets even worse. Outside of Speed, Luvdisc does not have a single stat over base 65, which for a single form Pokemon, is absolutely terrible. Remember, those other Pokemon I mentioned? They evolve, they get better stats, but Luvdisc will always be Luvdisc. Now Luvdisc does have a base Speed stat of 97, which on paper doesn't seem terrible. After all, Water is a decent attacking type, so maybe with base 97 speed it could be a speedy attacker? Well no, because Luvdisc's attacking stats are abysmal, with base 30(!) Attack and base 40 Special Attack meaning that it isn't hitting anything (for reference, unless it's both Modest and holding a Life Orb, Luvdisc cannot OHKO uninvested Garchomp from full with Ice Beam, a 4x super effective move). But since its attacking stats are so bad, you may think it's meant to be a faster tank or fast cleric or what have you, but it can't even do that well, not with 43/55/65 defenses it can't. So at least in terms of stats, it can't actually do anything with that decent Speed stat. If Luvdisc's terribleness just stopped at stats, typing, and design, it would already be one of the worst, but the terribleness doesn't stop here. No, in fact, it only accelerates from this point onwards.
Abilities- On paper, Luvdisc's abilities don't seem too terrible. After all, Hydration is a great ability on Pokemon like Manaphy, and Swift Swim is one of the best abilities in the game. However, when you remember its stat line, you realize why these abilities are absolutely terrible for it. See, the intention is that you would use Luvdisc on some sort of Rain team, abusing these two abilities to make it a threat under rain. But here's the issue: Luvdisc can't actually utilize these abilities. After all, given Luvdisc's terrible bulk, why would anything bother trying to status it to activate Hydration when any decently strong move will 2HKO or just plain OHKO it? And while Swift Swim boosts its already strong speed, it doesn't have the offensive stats nor movepool to really take advantage of this, especially not when compared to fellow swift swimmers Mega Swampert, Kingdra, Seismitoad, and Ludicolo (introduced in the same gen no less), all of whom have better typings, better stats, and better moves to actually abuse this ability. And keep in mind, to use these abilities, Luvdisc has to be in rain, so unless you're willing to give up a slot on a rain team for Luvdisc or build a rain team around it specifically, Luvdisc essentially has no abilities, and even when it can use them, it can't use them well.
Moves- This is where it completely falls apart for poor Luvdisc, for even other comparatively terrible Pokemon like Delibird, Furret, Ledian, and Farfetch'd have decent movepools (and better stats comparatively but I digress), but Luvdisc doesn't even get that. At most, Luvdisc gets the standard Water type fare, the same TMs most Pokemon know by default (like Toxic), and some relatively pointless options like Agility, Sweet Kiss, Heart Stamp and Heal Pulse. Even in the HOME leaks all it gets in terms of tutor moves is Scale Shot, which is worthless for it. So even in terms of moves, which can be the saving grace of many an otherwise mediocre or terrible Pokemon, Luvdisc gets absolutely nothing.
In-Game: So we've established by this point that Luvdisc has a generic type, bad stats, near worthless abilities, and a terrible movepool. This is already enough to make it worthless, but at least some of this would be forgivable if it was say, an early-game Pokemon. After all, many early-game Pokemon are generally bad by design, meant to be replaced as you go on or to at least get stronger as they evolve. But here's the thing: not only does Luvdisc not evolve, therefore robbing it of any chance to get better, but Luvdisc tends to be made available in the mid-late game. Why is this bad? Well, by the point you can get Luvdisc in most games, not only do you need something with Surf (usually another Water type) to get to Luvdisc to begin with, meaning that there's a good chance you already have something better than it by default, but by the time you can usually get it, there's far, far better options.
The best examples of this are in Gens 3 and 4, where it is made available in the final city and in the postgame respectively. By the time you get to these points, you have access too and are likely using far, far better Water types, and even if you aren't, there are plenty available in the places you can get it. For example, in Emerald, in the place you can fish to get it, you can also get Wailmer, Magikarp (at Gyarados levels), Pelipper, Tentacool, and even Corsola , all of which are leagues better than it. And in DPP, you have to beat the Elite Four to get the Super Rod you need to get Luvdisc, by which point you should already have a good Water type, but even then there's far better options in the places you can fish to get it.
So by these metrics alone, by the time you can get Luvdisc, there's no reason to ever use it since you should have better options available.
"BUT WAIT!" you may say, "Luvdisc isn't meant to be used in battle, it's meant to be used to farm Heart Scales!". Now first of all, if a Pokemon exists solely to shill an item, that's already bad, but this argument falls apart extremely quickly. The only place it could possibly apply is in RSE, but even then, before you can get Luvdisc, you can already grab up to 14 Heart Scales, which is more than enough for a casual playthrough. But even if you need more if say, you want to play competitively, you don't even need to catch Luvdisc to do it, since you can just give something Thief and have them steal Heart Scales. So the one thing Luvdisc could be used for doesn't even need you to actually use it.
But like I said, it only applies to RSE for in every Pokemon game after where Luvdisc is available, there are also sources of infinite or at the very least near-infinite Heart Scales, whether those be respawning locations on beaches, Festival Plaza floats, daily events, the Underground or other such things, you can easily get Heart Scales without even seeing this garbage excuse for a Pokemon.
Oh, and it isn't available in SwSh because even GF in their incompetence knows that this mon is worthless but even if it did come back, the move relearner is now free so there'd literally be no point in using it. So yeah, Luvdisc is objectively worthless in-game. Hell, even as an HM slave it's worthless since by the time you can get it, you already have access to/are using other HM slaves.
Competitive: Finally, we end on Luvdisc's competitive value or well, lackthereof. Let me put it this way: I have searched through every viability rankings for every tier in every generation, even down to sub-ZU tiers on other forums. I have seen every other garbage Pokemon from Delibird to Ledian to Furret to even Unown ranked and shown to have some level of viability somewhere, no matter how small. But Luvdisc? Luvdisc is not on any viability ranking in any tier in any generation. It's so unviable it has never even been touched in the lowest of low tiers like ADV ZU, where Pokemon like Elekid and Delibird rain supreme. It's completely worthless
So in conclusion, Luvdisc is demonstrably, objectively, the worst Pokemon of all time. It has garbage stats, a garbage design, garbage moves, worthless abilties, is useless both in game and competitively, and has the most generic typing of all time. Every other Pokemon has at least something, anything to make it redeemable, but Luvdisc has literally nothing to its name. It is truly the bottom of the Pokemon barrel, the creme de la creme of garbage.
To everyone who had the patience to read through all of this, thank you.
(Pretend each point is a punch)I'll gladly jump at any chance I can get to rant about this worthless pile of trash
Luvdisc in my opinion, is the objective worst Pokemon of all time in just about every category. Let's break it down, shall we?
It is one of those gimmicky, single-stage Pokémon with no real incentive to use beyond its gimmick that aged poorly. What do you expected?
Speaking of single-stage gimmicky Pokémon, they do tend to lose their appeal quickly except those whose gimmick proved very beneficial to it like Mimikyu’s disguise and to an extent, Minior’s Shields Down, but those are far and in-between. And some gimmicks simply don’t work because of them being single-staged to begin with.
- I do not need to repeat why Volbeat and Illumise are among the worst, but those are certainly too compressed of what are they supposed to be in a single stage. Were they be evolution lines like how the Nidoran lines are, regardless or not they share the same pre-evolution, they could lead to a more dynamic dimorphism.
- Present simply isn’t viable as a move even in-game, and it is even worse that it was once the signature move of a late-game Pokémon deliberately designed to be weak, which is Delibird. If this Pokémon can evolve into something that is at least decent (and not still horrible in-game), people wouldn’t make it as much of a laughing stock.
- Basculin’s formes aren’t distinct enough to justify being single-staged, and while useful in-game, they do not have competitive values or appealing design. If Basculin have two very different branched evolutions that depends on which stripe color it have, that would be nicer. Adaptability might have to go for the evolutions to not make those too powerful and give Basculin a niche over them. Won’t elaborate further to not get wish-listy.
- I fail to see why Stonjourner is single-staged, since Power Spot is not a form-change Ability unlike Eiscue’s Ice Face. I do not think a pre-evolution or evolution would salvage the design without revamping it, but at least it will help refer that a stonehenge is a slow processure to build that structure.
Swalot... god I hate seeing this pokemon.
I don't feel like writing a full-on rant on why I greatly despise this pokemon so I'll just say it here:
Design:
- Bland as hell design that makes Luvdisc's design look interesting
Stats/Competitive Use:
- Bad stats that render it unable to do shit offensively (far below average 73 offenses) or defensively (100/83/83 defenses)
- We aren't short on defensive Poison-types and Swalot has literally NOTHING to separate it from the rest
- For some reason, no recovery in any capacity despite looking like a defensive pokemon.
- Unhelpful abilities with the exception of Sticky Hold... and we have a lot better pokemon with Sticky Hold.
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Swalot’s designed to be a fun and splashable in-game mon. Access to lots of odd moves (Shock Wave, Water Pulse, Ice Beam, Earthquake) to give it a variety of fun matchups in Gen III, and fun sets in competitive using moves with pretty small distribution like Yawn and Encore. It’s meant to just be a jack of all trades, which is much more desirable in-game than competitive, and is fun to use actually. Has put in some good performances for me in nuzlockes and variants in its time.
Swalot... god I hate seeing this pokemon.
I don't feel like writing a full-on rant on why I greatly despise this pokemon so I'll just say it here:
Design:
- Bland as hell design that makes Luvdisc's design look interesting
Stats/Competitive Use:
- Bad stats that render it unable to do shit offensively (far below average 73 offenses) or defensively (100/83/83 defenses)
- We aren't short on defensive Poison-types and Swalot has literally NOTHING to separate it from the rest
- For some reason, no recovery in any capacity despite looking like a defensive pokemon.
- Unhelpful abilities with the exception of Sticky Hold... and we have a lot better pokemon with Sticky Hold.
Oh I would like to see that universe.
back to my "totally based" kind of worst pokemon rant
the next pokemon I intend to rant on is....
Bruxish!
(ok, more specifically, Design, Stats, and Competitive Use)
Competitive Use:
Again, Bruxish is obviously miles ahead of shitmons such as Luvdisc competitively. That doesn't mean that I still find it bad from a competitive standpoint, though. Although it has pretty good amounts of power especially because 105 attack isn't that bad and it even has access to Swords Dance and a boosting ability, that's where I find the positives of Bruxish from a competitive POV end. 92 speed is extremely average at best, and it's further worsened because Bruxish cannot viably run any form of speed boosting (Choice Scarf, even shit like Agility I guess) and also because it has poor bulk too. To be viable competitively as an attacker, you either have to have the bulk to tank hits if you're slow or the speed to go first if you're frail. 92 speed just does not cut it for an offensive pokemon, and neither does 68/70/70 defenses. This wouldn't be so bad if it was in a vacuum, but then you look at other physical Water-types (most relevant example is Mega Sharpedo since both share the same main ability), and Bruxish just feels extremely underpowered in comparison. I have nothing left to say, just use Mega Sharpedo/Barraskewda if you're looking for a fast physically offensive Water-type.
Stats:
While better than plenty of other pokemon that I have ranted on before (Banette and Swalot), Bruxish's stats feel kinda average at best and abhorrent at worst. While 105 attack is fine considering it can hold an item AND has boosting to bolster it further, the rest of Bruxish's stats are honestly kinda lacking. 92 speed is not a good enough speed tier for an offensive pokemon (why this is the case will be later) and 68/70/70 bulk is pretty damn poor for something with an average-at-best speed tier. Given, it has usable priority in Aqua Jet so it's not that bad, however, 92 speed by itself isn't good enough for something this frail. You have to have either bulk or speed to make up for a high attack stat, and again, every once in a while, 92 speed will be pretty damn good, but the thing is, what team doesn't have access to something faster that can eviscerate this pokemon with ease? And poor bulk further cuts into this - unlike Mega Garchomp who has the actual capacity to live hits despite having only 92 speed, Bruxish will usually just die to a Knock Off/Sucker Punch before it can do shit.
Design:
I get kinda tired from writing these long ass rants so I'll just list a few points to show my hatred for this pokemon's design:
- We aren't short on pokemon that look like fish/are fish themselves and Bruxish stands out in the wrong way from the rest.
- Bruxish's color scheme is extremely jarring and loud.
- Bruxish's design feels way too busy.
- It appears that the main idea of Bruxish's design is sensory overload; it achieves it well, but sensory overload in a pokemon design is something that I think should be completely avoided at all costs - pokemon designs are meant to be simple enough to not be overly busy, but complex enough to not make it too bland. Pokemon designs should NOT be sensory overload at all.
Thank you for your time.
the next pokemon I intend to rant on is....
Bruxish!
(ok, more specifically, Design, Stats, and Competitive Use)
Competitive Use:
Again, Bruxish is obviously miles ahead of shitmons such as Luvdisc competitively. That doesn't mean that I still find it bad from a competitive standpoint, though. Although it has pretty good amounts of power especially because 105 attack isn't that bad and it even has access to Swords Dance and a boosting ability, that's where I find the positives of Bruxish from a competitive POV end. 92 speed is extremely average at best, and it's further worsened because Bruxish cannot viably run any form of speed boosting (Choice Scarf, even shit like Agility I guess) and also because it has poor bulk too. To be viable competitively as an attacker, you either have to have the bulk to tank hits if you're slow or the speed to go first if you're frail. 92 speed just does not cut it for an offensive pokemon, and neither does 68/70/70 defenses. This wouldn't be so bad if it was in a vacuum, but then you look at other physical Water-types (most relevant example is Mega Sharpedo since both share the same main ability), and Bruxish just feels extremely underpowered in comparison. I have nothing left to say, just use Mega Sharpedo/Barraskewda if you're looking for a fast physically offensive Water-type.
Stats:
While better than plenty of other pokemon that I have ranted on before (Banette and Swalot), Bruxish's stats feel kinda average at best and abhorrent at worst. While 105 attack is fine considering it can hold an item AND has boosting to bolster it further, the rest of Bruxish's stats are honestly kinda lacking. 92 speed is not a good enough speed tier for an offensive pokemon (why this is the case will be later) and 68/70/70 bulk is pretty damn poor for something with an average-at-best speed tier. Given, it has usable priority in Aqua Jet so it's not that bad, however, 92 speed by itself isn't good enough for something this frail. You have to have either bulk or speed to make up for a high attack stat, and again, every once in a while, 92 speed will be pretty damn good, but the thing is, what team doesn't have access to something faster that can eviscerate this pokemon with ease? And poor bulk further cuts into this - unlike Mega Garchomp who has the actual capacity to live hits despite having only 92 speed, Bruxish will usually just die to a Knock Off/Sucker Punch before it can do shit.
Design:
I get kinda tired from writing these long ass rants so I'll just list a few points to show my hatred for this pokemon's design:
- We aren't short on pokemon that look like fish/are fish themselves and Bruxish stands out in the wrong way from the rest.
- Bruxish's color scheme is extremely jarring and loud.
- Bruxish's design feels way too busy.
- It appears that the main idea of Bruxish's design is sensory overload; it achieves it well, but sensory overload in a pokemon design is something that I think should be completely avoided at all costs - pokemon designs are meant to be simple enough to not be overly busy, but complex enough to not make it too bland. Pokemon designs should NOT be sensory overload at all.
Thank you for your time.
Regarding design, I personally think it's very cute and simple. Sometimes these are the most memorable designs.I'll gladly jump at any chance I can get to rant about this worthless pile of trash
Luvdisc in my opinion, is the objective worst Pokemon of all time in just about every category. Let's break it down, shall we?
Design: Let's start with the most obvious thing about it: the design. Now, given that Water is the most common Pokemon type, there's plenty of mediocre to even bad Water type designs, but I find Luvdisc's especially bad since it's so bland. I know it's supposed to be a heart or a discus fish but honestly it just feels like the laziest, most hastily-thrown together execution of that concept. There's nothing visually interesting about it, it's not cool or cute or scary or nothing. It's just "there" in the worst way possible, and it's especially egregious in a region that's full of far more interestingly designed Water types (which you can find in the same places you can find this), and even moreso in the gens following it's inception
To everyone who had the patience to read through all of this, thank you.
But the bad thing about it is that it's introduced in the same generation as Gorebyss which has the exact same color pallet. So besides sizes, they don't stand out from each other visually making them both forgettable Pokemon.
But honesty, the Clampert line, while not awful Pokemon after getting Shell Smash + Baton Pass, they are in general pretty forgettable.
Missed opportunity to evolve it to Alolamomola.
Imagine Gen VIII, in other words? OK, it's not quite so bad, but Gen VIII 'mons in general have really high BST, presumably to make each of them good enough not to need a cross-gen evolution to fix things later. Here's the full list of fully evolved Gen VIII Pokémon whose BST is less than 480:
- Greedent (460)
- Thievul (455)
- Eldegoss (460)
- Cramorant (475)
- Perrserker (440)
- Falinks (470)
- Pincurchin (435)
- Frosmoth (475)
- Stonjourner (470)
- Eiscue (470)
- Indeedee (475)
- Morpeko (436)
It seems like the designers really wanted every Pokémon to be useful in some way, removing the need to overhaul them later (after all, overhauling every single Pokémon for each new generation is a lot of work). However, this also means any future overhauls could easily push the Pokémon into "broken" territory, at least compared to Pokémon that weren't overhauled - and a generation with no overhauls is not fun, at any rate, so some of these Pokémon will probably see an overhaul in the future, but now there is very little wiggle room to play with.
It's the age-old dilemma of ever-expanding franchises: new 'mons need new cool content, but it leads to power creep over time compared to the old 'mons. If you update the old 'mons to match the power creep, the average power level still rises, leading to power creep in itself. And if you safeguard the new 'mons against future power creep by making them really powerful from the onset, you're really just making power creep worse.
If anything that just sounds more like the department that decides the stats need to have a meeting, maybe even a company meeting, where they come up with an unified ruleset about BST (likely connected to number of stages that Pokemon has, evolution levels, subgroups that Pokemon fits in, etc.). Then, once they have the rules down, actually go back to older Pokemon and apply the rules to them.
They rarely give big overhauls to Pokemon to begin with, I really wouldn't worry about any of them turning broken. Mmm actually...maybe to put this another way....the worry about lack of wiggle room is kind of warranted but less because of how "high" these pokemon are and more because gamefreak plays "overhauls" close to their chest to begin with
Like usually it's....
There are other things like mega evolutions, and those can be broken, but those can be broken regardless of the original BST. & frankly were kind of broken by design.... There's Z Moves but those arent overhauls as much as a blanket power buff to anyone that wants to use them; same with Dynamax to an extent (obviously the mechanic favors some pokemon more than others).
Like usually it's....
- moves (which especially on newer pokemon they're more stingy with at a base level) and those run the gamut between "why is this here" and "it's been 3000 years"
- Stat bump. This is on a pokemon-by-pokemon basis and often only gives 10 stat points at a time. Enough to make them marginally more useful, and appreciated, but not exactly breaking the bank here. Pokemon like Mantine, who got a big boon out of it, are fairly rare.
- Regional variants, which is more an excuse for type swapping & the occasional "now its a SPECIAL attacker" type stat swap. Probably the biggest overhaul short of an actual evolution but at the same time its still just that weird space of "not a new pokemon but kind of a new pokemon". And fairly rare who gets what at this point.
- Ability, which has become more rare over the years now that most pokemon have their abilities sorted out. Regional forms get around this by getting to go in a whole new direction.
There are other things like mega evolutions, and those can be broken, but those can be broken regardless of the original BST. & frankly were kind of broken by design.... There's Z Moves but those arent overhauls as much as a blanket power buff to anyone that wants to use them; same with Dynamax to an extent (obviously the mechanic favors some pokemon more than others).
Noivernman
Banned deucer.
I think litten is good
Buddy
Buddy
I like to nominate Hydreigon in the "Pokémon that are supposed to look badass but are actually not" category. Goodra and Dragonite are Pokémon are supposed to look cute and friendly, which is reflected well in their design. Hydreigon is designed to look menacing, but I don't know how people could find a dragon with sock puppets for hands as cool or badass.
I know this is a Deino sock puppet but my point still stands.
Not to mention the design of its sock puppet heads are bland as hell. I've made better dragon sock puppets in my middle school art class. This Pokémon's deisgn is overated af.
I know this is a Deino sock puppet but my point still stands.
Hydreigon is an adorable goofy hydra. It's difficult to not have that impression after playing Gates to Infinity.I like to nominate Hydreigon in the "Pokémon that are supposed to look badass but are actually not" category. Goodra and Dragonite are Pokémon are supposed to look cute and friendly, which is reflected well in their design. Hydreigon is designed to look menacing, but I don't know how people could find a dragon with sock puppets for hands as cool or badass.
Not to mention the design of its sock puppet heads are bland as hell. I've made better dragon sock puppets in my middle school art class. This Pokémon's deisgn is overated af.
I know this is a Deino sock puppet but my point still stands.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Everybody knows Hydreigon is a blessed princess
about that...I like to nominate Hydreigon in the "Pokémon that are supposed to look badass but are actually not" category. Goodra and Dragonite are Pokémon are supposed to look cute and friendly, which is reflected well in their design. Hydreigon is designed to look menacing, but I don't know how people could find a dragon with sock puppets for hands as cool or badass.
Not to mention the design of its sock puppet heads are bland as hell. I've made better dragon sock puppets in my middle school art class. This Pokémon's deisgn is overated af.
I know this is a Deino sock puppet but my point still stands.
From the Nintendo Dream Magazine which you can read the translation on lavacutcontent.com
Sugimori: “Our designer was struggling with this one for a while. The motif was supposed to be a war tank, and the purple stripes on Zweilous’ stomach are the leftovers of that early design. Initially, the designs weren’t really working, so we put them on ice — but later on in development, when orders came down for a powerful three-stage Dragon family, they were resurrected. After some discussion, we wanted the color to be somewhat unique, so we chose colors that makes it look tough. The aim was to recreate Yamata no Orochi (the mythical Japanese dragon with 8 heads), but so many heads can make a creature look disgusting. Thus the design of Hydreigon, with one true head, and whose arms and wings give it a silhouette that still looks like lots of heads. By the way, the arms that looks like heads don’t actually have their own individual brains.”
People don't like Hydreigon because it has a good design, people like Hydreigon because it's effective.