Resource VGC Metagame Discussion (Series 13!)

[Helios of Sun]

Possibly unpopular opinion but I am quite happy to return to a Dynamax format. (Not Series 8, but just Dynamax in general)

In Series 10, the best strategies were centered around the core of Rillaboom, Incineroar, and Amoonguss on most of these teams. After facing this core on so many teams for 2 months, I got bored of Series 10 and didn't really enjoy playing it too much. I didn't enjoy facing Venusaur GMax a lot very fun either, but to some extent I thought it was better. That being said, I am a thankful that Series 10 was around, as it really taught me a lot about how to play Pokemon without Dynamax. It was very insightful and I can bring some elements of this into my gameplay in Dynamax formats.

I do think Series 8 lacked meta development after Players Cup simply because there was no reason to develop the meta further. If there are more official tournaments such as a possible Players Cup 5, I think there is a chance for the meta to develop even more. Palkia and Calyrex-Ice are all sleeper picks that I think can shine a lot more than they currently do.

 

[TyphoeusVGC]

Well, I think this is the death of VGC, at least for 3 months. S8 was already quite hated and now recycling it is a HUGE mistake

Custom tournaments will be hosted, like GS Cup. I also wish you Smogon VGC mods create a thread about them (maybe where we can share them?)

This feels like an overexxagaration.I think the reason the last parts were hated was because of ppl not finding/not having enough motivation to find consistent counters to weather.now starting fresh I do think the meta will develop a lot. While there maybe some who hate it let's not discard it b4 seeing how it pans out

 

[KachiVGC]

This is disagreeable but I am actually looking forward to Dynamax returning. There are a few points I want to state at the moment.

Series 8 started off simple using previous archetypes and starting new ones. Restricted pokemon being able to Dynamax seems unfair to many players but the truth is Dynamax challenges the player to think critically and find solutions to the current problem. For instance, if you are using a bulky team then you will have a slight edge. That's why bulky offense frequently tops tournaments. Series 10 excluded max moves( specifically Max Airstream) which will give sweepers a harder time leaving holes on the opposing teams. Teams don't need to be as bulky anymore and uses Substitute much more often. Series 10 had developed rapidly which gives space for the underused pokemon to act.

 

[tikichase]

Hey! So if you haven't heard yet, Series 11 was announced late last night with series 8 rules being the format.

Looks like we're back into Venusaur country. I'll be reorganizing the forum to have series 8 resources front and center again soon!

I actually really enjoyed series 8 in comparison to series 10 because of the lack of centralization around non-restricted Pokemon. In series 10, teambuilding often felt like you pick a restricted, add incin + rillaboom + water type, add speed control or disruption (whimsicott/torn/eleki/amoonguss/etc) and then add your one niche mon. This, or you play TornOgre. I think while series 10 may technically be a more balanced metagame, series 8/11 is one that still has a lot of balance and a lot more diversity (albeit sun being really strong and dominant). While very centralized, series8/11s archetypes looked noticeably different from the other common archetypes also present in the format. Whereas Series 10 often looked like this:

This is not to say by any means that I think series 8/11 is perfect. The DoT Gigantamax Pokemon with absurd speed tiers (Coalossal/Venusaur) or insane damage output (Charizard) are incredibly problematic and antithetical to a perfectly healthy metagame. Outside of these, I think its a very good and very fun metagame with a lot of room to grow (unlike what i think of series 10) and I hope we get a chance to fully explore the metagame without the next series announced at the start of the official metagame like we had with series 8

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

OK so with season 10 wrapping up I have some questions for the community:

1: Have you enjoyed this Dynamax-less format? Why / why not?
2: What do you think is the best restricted Pokemon?
3: What do you think is the best unrestricted Pokemon?
4: Anything you feel is overrated?
5: Are there any Pokemon you miss being viable?
6: Finally are there any C or below rank VR Pokemon that you think could be explored more?

 

[Bananers]

OK so with season 10 wrapping up I have some questions for the community:

1: Have you enjoyed this Dynamax-less format? Why / why not?
2: What do you think is the best restricted Pokemon?
3: What do you think is the best unrestricted Pokemon?
4: Anything you feel is overrated?
5: Are there any Pokemon you miss being viable?
6: Finally are there any C or below rank VR Pokemon that you think could be explored more?

1. No I haven’t. Meta is way more restricted than without max, and the spread moves (spout, pblades, etc.) are way too strong.
2. Zacian, teams legit can just go 5 mons and dog and be good.
3. Incin, don’t need to explain.
4. I think Kyogre is a bit overrated with Rillaboom and Eleki being everywhere and Tsareena being bad now.
5. Volcarona :(
6. I’m not sure which C ranks there are rn and I’m on mobile so I don’t wanna go and check.

 

[Helios of Sun]

1: Have you enjoyed this Dynamax-less format? Why / why not?
I really enjoyed it for the first 3 or 4 weeks after the format hit, however, after a while I got burnt out of the format very badly and was ready to swap to another format. I enjoyed it because it was a more skill heavy format that required more thinking as compared to Dynamax formats, and I thought I could learn a lot from a format like this. However, as every match on high ladder became ‘who can play Incin Rilla better’, it started to get boring for me and I didn’t enjoy it as much after that.

2: What do you think is the best restricted Pokemon?
Towards the end of the format, I'd say Kyogre, though it is fairly close between Kyogre, Zacian and Calyrex-Shadow. A Scarf Kyogre team does not really have bad matchups with the right supporting pieces, and it definitely ended off in the format being very meta defining (if you do not have a Kyogre matchup, your team is in a lot of trouble). Zacian and Caly-S come very close, with Caly-S having a small resurgence towards the end of the format thanks to a new Sunny Day Whimsicott support to beat Kyogre teams.

3: What do you think is the best unrestricted Pokemon?
I'll throw a bit of a curveball here and say Amoonguss. Amoonguss has been popping up late season as a part of the monstrous Double Grass Incineroar combination, and I can easily say that it is one of the strongest cores in the S10 metagame. Amoonguss is also far more splashable than Rillaboom in my opinion, being the best redirector in the metagame. Use Amoonguss, it’s broken.

4: Anything you feel is overrated?
Regieleki and Tsareena. People seem to view them as mons that are slappable on any team, but I am of the opinion that both Pokemon are severely overrated and not as splashable considering the current format. Regieleki was okay early on in the season (not great, just okay) when Kyogre was still running Mystic Water. However, as Kyogres swapped to Scarf, Regieleki had a hard time keeping up and it wasn’t as good an Ogre check as it originally was. Tsareena on the other hand has trouble keeping up appearances on any team not Kyogre. I have not found a team apart from Kyogre and some Scarf Zard teams where I would like to run Tsareena over Rillaboom, which is why I find it’s A rating unjustified.

5: Are there any Pokemon you miss being viable?
Garchomp. I enjoyed using it in S9 and 2013 but it’s not good in S10.

6: Finally are there any C or below rank VR Pokemon that you think could be explored more?
Togekiss. I think it has great potential as a redirector for Dark Moves on a Calyrex-Shadow team, and I have personally been very impressed by it in testing. I think with more experimentation, it could be the premier Calyrex-Shadow team.

 

[Yourwelcomethanku]

OK so with season 10 wrapping up I have some questions for the community:

1: Have you enjoyed this Dynamax-less format? Why / why not?
2: What do you think is the best restricted Pokemon?
3: What do you think is the best unrestricted Pokemon?
4: Anything you feel is overrated?
5: Are there any Pokemon you miss being viable?
6: Finally are there any C or below rank VR Pokemon that you think could be explored more?

1: I enjoyed both honestly, got tired of s8 and s10 for the same reason the format getting boring and stale. Without many events going on its not like many people are encouraged to try and develop the metagame.

2: I'd say Zacian-Crowned, a good Zacian-C team feels like it has neutral to favorable matchups into about anything, and there have been those Zacian-C Grimmsnarl teams that have popped up and I think they are pretty good. You could also make an argument for Kyogre imo, Kyogre teams can have fairly neutral to favorable matchups versus many common teams.

3: Probably Incineroar not much too explain here. Amoonguss I'd say is pretty close dealing with Spore reliably is challenging in this format and it offers so much beyond that with Rage Powder and Pollen Puff.

4: Regieleki its primary role is Kyogre MU and other Pokemon can fulfill that role and offer other useful utility.

5: Not anything I miss a lot, but I'd say the Kyurem forms in s8 were pretty cool.

6: Zapdos-G could probably have done with more exploration destroys double grass which is Amoonguss and Rillaboom, it also punishes Intimidate Gyarados and Incineroar. All of the listed Pokemon are great to excellent in the metagame.

 

[pix]

Yo, I would like to get in some practice for s11 so does anyone know the command for it on showdown since it isn't available rn.

 

[KachiVGC]

OK so with season 10 wrapping up I have some questions for the community:

1: Have you enjoyed this Dynamax-less format? Why / why not?
2: What do you think is the best restricted Pokemon?
3: What do you think is the best unrestricted Pokemon?
4: Anything you feel is overrated?
5: Are there any Pokemon you miss being viable?
6: Finally are there any C or below rank VR Pokemon that you think could be explored more?

1. I enjoyed both, like I said before, Dynamax causes players to think more strategically which results to a more interesting game. In addition, Dynamax can shape the team to rely on it or to come up with interesting pokemon to use because Dynamax gives an edge to the underused pokemon or makes already powerful pokemon dominant in the meta

2. Zacian-Crowned, you will probably see this thing immediately when you play a game on the ladder. For a summary, Zacian's attack is high on top of Intrepid Sword, its speed tops even Dragapult ( which kind of makes it look pathetic) , and the bulk is relatively high if comparing to non-legendries which results to bulky sets.

3. Incineroar is obvious because of its bulk and ability, but I would say Regieleki is second due to the fact of its speed control and typing which only has one weakness. That isn't much of a problem because of eleki's high speeds which allows it to pivot out of the field without any harm, and there's Focus Sash.

4. I think Rillaboom is overrated because it doesn't hit many super effectively or even has the chance to. Although it does have some great tools to be used, Rillaboom doesn't seem to keep up with the threats. Tornadus still has a dominant MU even with AV.

5. Slowbro, I enjoyed using it during older generations, but there are only few times it will be good. The top spots currently are occupied :(

6. Reshiram, its bulk and MU against the meta remains excellent. Groudon gets slammed by Blue Flare which makes my statement more logical. Landorus-I isn't that popular so Reshiram is free to run rampant. Tailwind fixes the problem of Zacian's Play Rough. AV fixes most of Reshiram's problems such as Kyogre.

 

[Coam]

1: Have you enjoyed this Dynamax-less format? Why / why not?
I enjoyed both formats, but the centralization of series 10 makes it less interesting overall.

2: What do you think is the best restricted Pokemon?
Kyogre continues to be a major threat with its ability to set rain, powerful and accurate attacks, decent bulk, and good match ups against the other restricteds. The only thing holding it back this season is the increased prevalence of Rillaboom, but that can readily be checked by its partners such as Tornadus and Tsareena.

3: What do you think is the best unrestricted Pokemon?
It's close but I think Rillaboom is actually slightly better than Incineroar. It's higher base speed allows for faster Fake outs and pivoting with U-turn. Grassy Surge is a great ability because it allows Rillaboom to unleash boosted priority Grassy Glides, and it can be used to override opposing terrains, which can hamper your teams capability to inflict status conditions or disrupt opponents with Fake Out, prankster boosted status moves, and other priority attacks. Rillaboom's grass typing gives it natural immunity to Spore and to redirection from Rage Powder users like Amoonguss and Volcarona without taking up an item slot by using Safety Goggles. Incineroar is threatened to be OHKOed by a lot more Pokémon, including Urshifu-R, Landorus, Nihilego, and Mienshao. Additionally Incineroar faces some competition with Entei as a offensive fire type whereas Rillaboom is less replaceable as a team member.

4: Anything you feel is overrated?
Regieleki is just not as good without the ability to Dynamax. With its reliance on electric type attacks it doesn't really work as a sweeper and otherwise its only niche is as a fast Electroweb user, which isn't really that useful compared to other support mons with Tailwind and/or Icy Wind.

5: Are there any Pokemon you miss being viable?
G-max Lapras, G-max Blastoise, G-max Charizard, Clefairy, Clefable, Comfey, Moltres-G, Dragapult, and Regieleki.

6: Finally are there any C or below rank VR Pokemon that you think could be explored more?
Grimmsnarl has seen some use as a dual screens setter with Zacian, but I think it could fit on teams with other restricteds as well. It also has an extremely versatile moveset, so other options could also be explored.

 

[Verdas]

Currently feel like hotdog is easily the best team in s11. Haven't played played on ladder, but I've gotten in a decent amount of friendlies against friends. Im not the best sun player nor the best Zacian player, but HotDog often feels effortless to play. The amount of modes and option trees available is immense, but it isn't tough to pilot at all since just playing simply and abusing DoT damage and screens works too. I've only really used Kevin Salvetto's version. I also think PultDog is really good currently, since the offensive pressure coming from Dragapult and Zacian easily overwhelms most archetypes. Plus, it is extremely easy to cover any matchup, since Zacian teams in general are magnets to good pokemon. The one I've been using was this (Importable), which i built myself.

 

[Cuddly]

One of the most interesting and fun tactics in doubles is Psych Up and Self-Transform. You take a Pokemon which can get a lot of boosts quickly, and either Psych Up those boosts or actually use Transform on that boosted Pokemon.
Does anyone have an recommendations on what would be good setters and good abusers?

 

[Evelyie]

One of the most interesting and fun tactics in doubles is Psych Up and Self-Transform. You take a Pokemon which can get a lot of boosts quickly, and either Psych Up those boosts or actually use Transform on that boosted Pokemon.
Does anyone have an recommendations on what would be good setters and good abusers?

The only use is using Ditto at opposing Zacian-C at +1 to get +2 and be able to OHKO it

 

[SchwarzWolf]

Is it me or is their no genuine stall team in this form of VGC. I was looking to make one if y'all haven't made one yet

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Is it me or is their no genuine stall team in this form of VGC. I was looking to make one if y'all haven't made one yet

Stall is not a good style for VGC in general. Switching is much riskier since your switch in could get hit twice for free. Especially this format has such powerful attackers as Zacian, Kyogre and G Max Charizard, that’s too much damage to reliably wall.

 

[zee]

Series 13 has been officially announced, running from September 1st to October 31st, making it likely the penultimate format for Sword and Shield VGC before a likely pivot to S/V in January of 2023

As many of you know, last night we got some shocking news about the new ruleset: there are no limits on Restricted Pokemon and Mythical Pokemon are allowed! Bar none, this is the craziest ruleset we've ever had

I hopped in a call with ck49 and other top players to give our initial impressions on the rules, which you can watch/listen to here.

My first thought for this post was to do a Viability Rankings style post, but it's really to early, so I'm gonna break this up into clusters.

Cluster 1, The Gods among Gods



Zacian does not get any worse, let's make the clear. It's still the second fastest Restricted, still has great typing, and still does everything it does normally. I'd be interested to see if any moveset changes affect Zacian, but for now I imagine most people are playing with STABS + Fighting coverage or Substitute. It hits Magearna for quite a lot, and will surely appreciate the increase in Yveltal usage.

Kyogre is insane. Nothing new really has that good of a Kyogre matchup. Zeraora dies to full power Water Spout without AV/Utility Umbrella and Volcanion only walls Kyogre if it drops Thunder, which is hard to see with it being way harder to justify running Gastrodon now. Tailwind comps greatly appreciate the reduced viability of Regieleki and the ability to add Yveltal to their arsenal to help check Whimsicott + Caly Shadow.

Cluster 2, The Meat and Potatoes



In Series 12, Calyrex ran a strong hybrid supportive/offensive set with Astral Barrage, Snarl, Will-o-Wisp, and Protect with max Spatk and Speed. Now that it's even easier to justify supportive efforts from Restricted Pokemon, I think CSR will be running this set a lot. Choice Specs on Tailwind teams is the other main standout, as we're still fairly limited on Ghost resists

One such resist is of course Yveltal, which stands out to be as the only Restricted/Mythical to have Tailwind. Being immune to Prankster Taunt and firing off fast Snarls are some of the other main benefits it has. Life Orb sets that mostly want to Dynamax are also probably very not bad

Lunala stands out to me as one of the sturdiest Trick Room setters, and also has a variety of tools like Hypnosis and Will-O-Wisp that I'd previously consider underutilized. Ghost resists being few and far between and having Meteor Beam for Yveltal make it look like an appealing attacker as well.

Groudon takes a hit in this format I think since it's harder to justify running as many sun abusers as possible, but having the ability to check all the steels and temporarily remove Kyogre's rain are benefits. I think Venusaur will be the main sun abuser going forward, being one of the strongest Kyogre checks and ready to incapacitate foes with Sleep Powder.

Cluster 3, New Heat?



Ho-oh stands out because Fire/Flying is a really solid defensive typing and it has reliable recovery to even further solidify its niche. It can potentially pass dual status with Sacred Fire and Thunder Wave, or make a good Dynamax user with powerful Max Airstreams.

Magearna is the new toy everyone's talking about, but I think it's slow speed and really only decent bulk may hold it back from reaching star status. Now, that being said, I think Magearna should probably be about even with CSR on your teambuilding checklist, or else Soul Heart will make minced meat of you, but doing so should prevent any embarrassing disasters.

Zekrom is something I've been messing around with, I think it just matches up really nicely into Kyogre/Yveltal/Zacian/Ghost cores with a mixed maxed set. I'm not running Fly/DWB yet but maybe I'll try it soon.

Dusk Mane is probably the 3rd best Trick Room setter and one of the best users of Weakness Policy thanks to Prism Armor. I could really see some DMN tr teams doing damage.

Cluster 4, The Vast Unknown



Rounding out are list are the Pokemon that slightly interest me, starting with Victini. For sure, sun boosted V-Create is going to hurt. It also offers Trick Room and Final Gambit which may be of use to hard Trick Room or sunroom teams.

Melmetal hits really hard, but is slow and lacking in special bulk with an assault vest. It's likely going to get overwhelmed unless it can really get going in Trick Room, but I'd be scared to let it spam Double Iron Bash for free.

Zeraora and Zamazenta I'm lumping together because the two have cool support moves. Both have Snarl and Coaching, where Zama also has Wide Guard, CC, and Behemoth Bash, and Zera has Fake Out, Electroweb, Taunt, and Volt Absorb, meaning it can Electroweb without having to worry about losing speed ties or being outpaced by Regieleki.

That's all that sticks out to me for now but I'd love to know what you're thinking. Any mythicals you think might shake things up?

If you're reading this on the first, come join the Smogon VGC Discord! We're having a tournament in a few hours.

 

[Helios of Sun]

I haven't done major testing into the format yet, but some quick thoughts on the format:

- Zacian, Yveltal, Kyogre is the strongest early-format core.
Kind of a duh moment here, Yveltal is probably the strongest airstreamer to pair up with Zacian and Kyogre, and it greatly supports these in this respect. Paired with something like Whimsicott, and you got a pretty devastating 4 mon core to work around. Additionally, it's pretty difficult to get an early TR up against Yveltal Kyogre from past experience in series 12.

- Magearna is probably a little overrated
Keep in mind, I haven't seen enough Doubles UBERS games to form a better opinion on this, but I seriously don't see how Magearna shines. It's probably a great Trick Room abuser, but I'm not sure how good Trick Room will be in this kind of format where its pretty hard to get it set up. It is definitely still strong, but no S tier Pokemon like other people are putting it as.

- Melmetal?
I'm really hyped about Melmetal. When I see the stats of this mon, it looks really crazy to me and I think it could potentially be very strong with an Assault Vest set. I'm high on it and I would like to see creative strategies be come up with it.

I may post more thoughts as I have more time to think about the format.

 

[Evelyie]

He's coming!
When we had single restricted formats, we knew Zamazenta-C wasn't worth the slot. This ended up also being true with 2 restricted slots. But now with 6? I do believe it is going to finally pick up deserved usage. Maybe not that much because it still suffers from that, but it's an option I have my eyes on.


Supportive beast?
People might realized this already, but Magearna has interesting supportive moves in Crafty Shield, Helping Hand, Encore, Imprison. Might be another fun set to mess around, but offensively, it's kinda lacking due to its middling Speed.

 

[Meloetta imperactive]

In my case, despite many of the things that are currently said, I think I could say some things about some mons that could be great in my opinion, starting with the singular ones:

-Volcanion: this thing will possibly be a loose beast, it won't be the best for when it's series 13, but I'm crazy, it's immune to Kyogre's Water Spoul depending on whether it hits with Thunder, it holds Zacian all his armor forcing him to use Close Combat, a good variety of coverage moves and possibly *for me* from how I see it, its best item will be the assault Vest, maybe it will be weak to Landorus T, Regielequi and it is a water type not weak to rillaboom, but it still does a lot of damage However, covering the most important pokes and incidentally being a good friend of Groudon as well as Kyogre, would make it a pokemon that at least for me *if S13 starts* would be in Rank A, it has a lot of potential, and I'll wait until make it series 13 to be able to use it!

-MelMetal: Like Volcanion, his favorite items will be the Assault Vest, but Mellmetal would be like a steel type that is even more tanky and with resistances that zacian, it is the best counter to CalyrexIce, it has maxquake to increase its special defense, an ability that with movements that it learns and its characteristic movement basically few pokemon could face it, a good poke for trickroom, although I like its gymax a bit, it only has problems with intimidating you with inci and lando, but even so, this pokemon I think it would also be an option solid when s13 arrives.

-Victini : this mon can have a solid use too, its ability helps your movements as well as those of your teammates to do it, which means that movements like Gro's Precipice Blades, Ogre's Origin Pulse, Draco Meteor or movements like Play Rough almost never fail, added to the fact that victini has VCreate, and acceptable coverage movements, as well as helping the team with Helping Hand, Will-O-Wisp, Thunder Wave, etc, it is a pokemon that, in addition to hitting hard, helps your companions, also be utilitarian slash support.

-Magearna: it's basically ANOTHER Fairy/steel type but special attacker, anything that dies, whether it's a partner or not, will always have the special attack boosted, maybe its low speed and if it had better health points it would help it a lot, but for you saw it, good covers, a decent ability and being the same as zacian but special, would also be somewhat solid in use.

And what about the other singulars? so I summarize:
-Zeraora: it has fake out, immune to regielequi attacks making it somewhat useless in several games, it is fast but nothing extraordinary like the mons I said above, maybe in B if it were to be on the list

-Genesect: with ChoiceScarf, his equippable items and with Kyogre or other fellow monsters he becomes someone lethal, he beats most pokes like gro, dialga and others and can respond to them in addition to his ability helping this game by increasing his physical attack or his special attack, it will not be the best of the meta but like zeraora it is good but nothing surprises you, or in -A or B more or less ... or I could even just put it in -B

-Marshadow: It hits hard and is a "check" for inci to a certain extent, its useless ability, bad defensive typing, it may not be used and the ones you meet you may see them scarf at most, but by not defending like others , it will depend on some shadow sneak games.

-Mew: it can have a decent use for having a bunch of support moves, help a bit of punch with maybe psychic or another coverage MU, but I don't see it being SO used, weak to calyrex shadow, lunala, yveltal and incineroar .

-Jirachi: hitting with iron head or with MU that have effects and trying to...is bad

-Keldeo: it can be used for a Coalossal-Gmax strategy, as it has less physical attack than urshifu and dragapult together, but with fake out everything breaks... and its speed is not what a poke would like to see, while the volcano stops it in dry.

-Celebi: Counter de Gastrodom?...rillaboom exists!, bad typing, a mew or victini but WORSE, and weak to everything that hurts Mew but adding that Uturn will kill him without hesitation, forgive me pretty thing...but you won't work in this format...

-Diance : Possibly THE WORST Singular that will be in the format when it is available and the one that nobody will use, bad typing, slow, weak to almost everything and prey to Zacian-Crowned.

 

[Evelyie]

In my case, despite many of the things that are currently said, I think I could say some things about some mons that could be great in my opinion, starting with the singular ones:

-Volcanion: this thing will possibly be a loose beast, it won't be the best for when it's series 13, but I'm crazy, it's immune to Kyogre's Water Spoul depending on whether it hits with Thunder, it holds Zacian all his armor forcing him to use Close Combat, a good variety of coverage moves and possibly *for me* from how I see it, its best item will be the assault Vest, maybe it will be weak to Landorus T, Regielequi and it is a water type not weak to rillaboom, but it still does a lot of damage However, covering the most important pokes and incidentally being a good friend of Groudon as well as Kyogre, would make it a pokemon that at least for me *if S13 starts* would be in Rank A, it has a lot of potential, and I'll wait until make it series 13 to be able to use it!

-MelMetal: Like Volcanion, his favorite items will be the Assault Vest, but Mellmetal would be like a steel type that is even more tanky and with resistances that zacian, it is the best counter to CalyrexIce, it has maxquake to increase its special defense, an ability that with movements that it learns and its characteristic movement basically few pokemon could face it, a good poke for trickroom, although I like its gymax a bit, it only has problems with intimidating you with inci and lando, but even so, this pokemon I think it would also be an option solid when s13 arrives.

-Victini : this mon can have a solid use too, its ability helps your movements as well as those of your teammates to do it, which means that movements like Gro's Precipice Blades, Ogre's Origin Pulse, Draco Meteor or movements like Play Rough almost never fail, added to the fact that victini has VCreate, and acceptable coverage movements, as well as helping the team with Helping Hand, Will-O-Wisp, Thunder Wave, etc, it is a pokemon that, in addition to hitting hard, helps your companions, also be utilitarian slash support.

-Magearna: it's basically ANOTHER Fairy/steel type but special attacker, anything that dies, whether it's a partner or not, will always have the special attack boosted, maybe its low speed and if it had better health points it would help it a lot, but for you saw it, good covers, a decent ability and being the same as zacian but special, would also be somewhat solid in use.

And what about the other singulars? so I summarize:
-Zeraora: it has fake out, immune to regielequi attacks making it somewhat useless in several games, it is fast but nothing extraordinary like the mons I said above, maybe in B if it were to be on the list

-Genesect: with ChoiceScarf, his equippable items and with Kyogre or other fellow monsters he becomes someone lethal, he beats most pokes like gro, dialga and others and can respond to them in addition to his ability helping this game by increasing his physical attack or his special attack, it will not be the best of the meta but like zeraora it is good but nothing surprises you, or in -A or B more or less ... or I could even just put it in -B

-Marshadow: It hits hard and is a "check" for inci to a certain extent, its useless ability, bad defensive typing, it may not be used and the ones you meet you may see them scarf at most, but by not defending like others , it will depend on some shadow sneak games.

-Mew: it can have a decent use for having a bunch of support moves, help a bit of punch with maybe psychic or another coverage MU, but I don't see it being SO used, weak to calyrex shadow, lunala, yveltal and incineroar .

-Jirachi: hitting with iron head or with MU that have effects and trying to...is bad

-Keldeo: it can be used for a Coalossal-Gmax strategy, as it has less physical attack than urshifu and dragapult together, but with fake out everything breaks... and its speed is not what a poke would like to see, while the volcano stops it in dry.

-Celebi: Counter de Gastrodom?...rillaboom exists!, bad typing, a mew or victini but WORSE, and weak to everything that hurts Mew but adding that Uturn will kill him without hesitation, forgive me pretty thing...but you won't work in this format...

-Diance : Possibly THE WORST Singular that will be in the format when it is available and the one that nobody will use, bad typing, slow, weak to almost everything and prey to Zacian-Crowned.

I disagree with alot of stuff in here.


Steam Eruption is a great move, but its Speed is a major flaw, paired with it's huge Groudon weakness. It does not check Kyogre efficiently, even with Water Absorb, because it cannot really do anything in return. Saying so, I want to experiment a Choice Scarf set some time!:
@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Absorb
- Heat Wave
- Will-O-Wisp
- Steam Eruption
- Bulldoze


I didn't have high hopes for it, and I keep not having them. It's in a weird situation where it needs AV, but also needs Weakness Policy (specially in 1v1's, or against Calyrex-I)


I like its sets, but it's kind of overrated right now. I'd just like to point out that using Final Gambit to give your Magearna +2 is one of the worst gimmicks you could run, because Zacian-C gets +1 for free. I feel like Victini is really just worse Entei. Yeah, V-create is 180BP while Flare Blitz is 120BP, but the fact that Entei's Inner Focus allows it to ignore Fake Out while also dealing recoil damage instead leaving you right open with massive drops, feels better in my opinion.

I think what you wrote is valid, but one thing you did not consider was that Incineroar is way worse then it's in other formats.


Incineroar feels like it's only checking Zacian-C and Calyrex-S, but allowing unlimited restricteds turns it obsolete. Yveltal has been the "#1 Incineroar" with Foul Play, Snarl, Taunt and even Tailwind. Calyrex-S can burn opponents with Will-O-Wisp, and damage control with Snarl being immune to Fake Out. Damn, even Ho-Oh is arguably a better Fire-type.

Of course, Incineroar is not bad, but its definetly not as splashable as it's originally is.

 

[Evelyie]

Also, I am moving on from my first team. I want to do a mini-report here to do a complete report of my thoughts of the metagame right now. I think this is, funny enough, the best Dynamax format we had so far. Everything is broken, so Dynamax feels less oppresive because everything is oppresive anyway (hope you guys could understand).


Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Level: 50
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Play Rough
- Sacred Sword
- Protect
Zacian-C is a great Pokémon as always. I ran a pretty offensive set, as I think it's the best. With the rise of Yveltal, Play Rough and Behemoth Blade are essential tools to deal with it, making it still a S tier in the metagame. I don't have much to comment about it, but Zacian-C feels much less broken in the metagame, which I really enjoy.


Groudon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Tomb
- Fire Punch
- Shadow Claw
This format feels like VGC 2019 in a way that having Kyogre / Groudon (not Rayquaza) feels essential. Personally, I prefer Groudon much more as its a great Dynamax Pokémon with solid utility out of it, as well. It deals with Zacian-C, and pressure some newcomers like Magearna and Zeraora.


Yveltal @ Mago Berry
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 92 HP / 4 Def / 100 SpA / 60 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Snarl
- Oblivion Wing
- Tailwind
I'm astonished on how useful this Pokémon becomes in these types of meta's. Foul Play, Snarl and Oblivion Wing are all known tools, but Tailwind gives Yveltal so much use as a great Speed Control. It will probably be the highest in usage, if not the 2nd during the development stages of the metagame. Killing this thing is insanely hard when given the right support. This is the Pokémon everyone should have their eyes on.


Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Yawn
- Protect
Gastrodon is the only non-restricted of my team. I used it to patch Kyogre and Calyrex-I matchups, but it keeps being so good. Since Yveltal keeps on rising, paired with other Flying-types like Ho-Oh, Grass-types like Rillaboom are non-existant, so Gastrodon can really pressure. It doesn't feel as bulky as it did because of the rise of power levels, but it is still a great Pokémon that patched the team out alot.

Calyrex-Shadow @ Focus Sash
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Astral Barrage
- Snarl
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
I think Calyrex-S and Yveltal are great supportive Pokémon in this metagame. Since Intimidate is not as common, Will-O-Wisp feels great early-series where no one is running a Lum Berry. It snowballs really hard of some new targets like Mew and Jirachi, while also pressuring common targets like Lunala. Even with Yveltal rising, I don't see Calyrex-S dropping off anytime soon.


Ho-Oh @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Recover
- Protect
It didn't do as much as I wanted to. I feel like its Speed is limiting, and Max Flare doesn't feel much strong. Maybe Victini could be a better slot, but I think it's not as great as I thought. I ran Charti Berry for some time, and it struggled against Venusaur, but with Goggles, against Max Rockfall Groudon. I think Charizard G-Max is still super valid in this format, but it requires experimentation.

Weaknessess

Choice Scarf Kyogre gave me a huge pain. With other Dynamax targets, Kyogre takes full privilege of its massive Water Spout, even with Gastrodon.


I think it's where Incineroar proves itself worthy, to stop Tailwind setups. Fake Out is still such a good tool. Zeraora could be a good mention here as well, but I think it's lack of bulk hurts it alot. I'm excited to see how Incineroar develops into the metagame


Tailwind is very popular early-series, but having a Max Airstream abuser feels a necessity on teams. I chose Yveltal, but faster targets like Regieleki, Thundurus and even Tornadus are very scary to many teams.


If you're interested, here's the team: https://pokepast.es/8bf6c861de07e300
And here's the rental code: 0000 0002 1H2G KW

 

[KachiVGC]

I am back from a break to share my thoughts about series 13, feel free to disagree to my opinions, advise is welcome.

Mythical pokemon are finally added to gen 8! This meta shift will have a massive focus on mythical pokemon's utility, power, and builds.
Since you can have basically your whole team with restricted and mythical pokemon, there will be a lot of unique teams of underrated restricted pokemon with mythicals to maximize their potential.

-Magearna: Magearna is a beast, its offensive and defensive prowess makes it a force to be reckoned with. Magearna's ability soul heart can be tagged together with choice scarf final gambit Victini to get a special attack boost to top off its high base attack stat. My idea is that Magearna is going to be very popular with Kyogre like how Zacian is because fire damage reduction. Magearna's low speed stat is actually great for SunRoom teams but the player will have to be careful due to threats such as Groudon, and possibly Melmetal. Fleur cannon aka Fairy DM can destroy pokemon such as Yveltal, Palkia, Zekrom, Kyruems, and many more. DG is a great spread move, CM for set up, Sub for protection, and TR is a viable option to. LO, AV, WP, and Choice Specs are the best items on Magearna. There is so much you can do with Magearna and I am looking forward to building around it.

-Victini: Victini will also be of high usage, V-create is stupid, although the aftermath of the attack is quite hefty, screens such as Grimmsnarl and Tailwind pokemon such as Whims and Torn can make it an amazing dynamax option. Victini can act as a Charizard replacement if you don't want to be taking too much damage. Victini pairs incredibly with Yveltal due to the fact that it covers most of its counters such as Groudon ( Foul Play), Kyogre( Av snarl), Calyrex-ghost, and ( Caly-ice with Lo and high bulk investments or without tr). I know I stated V-Create is Ludicrous, but moves like heat wave in sunor searing shot can work, even scorching sands. Mixed or Special Vic actually gives more variety than physical. Solar Beam can work as well as expanding force. If using scarfed or LO Victini I would recomend U-turn. Sun teams will have a great additon to their teams when using Victini.

-Marshadow: This pokemon is also great, the stats aren't as well rounded but are nicely invested into atk and speed, Spectral Thief, its signature move, steals items such a FS or LO to do great damage and offer reasonable utility, Caly-ice is a nice pair with Marshadow and also Zacian for hyper offense teams. Marshadow is somewhat weaker than Scizor but has more versatility because of its speed and wide move pool. Marshadow does have many weaknesses, basically most of the meta that can deal great damage, so recommend FS or AV to stay on the field longer. Marshadow seems like a very fun pokemon who can cripple down teams and remove useful items and I'm looking foward to seing its usage!

-Zeraora: Well, this topic is going to be interesting, Zeraora is yet another fast electric pokemon that happens to deal damage. Wow, that's something never seen before can't wait. Anyways, forgive my sarcasm but no joke Zeraora's Plasma Fists actually seems very interesting. Hear me out, does this mean Toxtricity can finally be viable? I mean punk rock increases sound attacks with throat spray and in addition to STAB damage on Boomburst. Zeraora even has Volt Absorb which means its immune to Boomburst as long as Zerora moves before Toxtricity( which probably is all the time). Other than that AV, FS, LO, or scarf are great options on Zerora even trying to use it as a mixed pokemon has potential. Kyogre will work very well with Zeraora and Zacian too. Coaching will make Zacian a huge threat to any pokemon. Yveltal and Groudon are also great options, Yveltal can Foul play Groudon or Zerora can even proc WP with Volt Switch. In my Opinion, I think Zeraora will be my favorite pokemon to play because of the Toxtricity gimmic. I'm gonna make a team by just the idea!

I am going to make another post based off restricted pokemon because I'm too lazy to put it in one post.


Anyways thanks reading about my thoughts of series 13 and I can't wait to see everybody's teams and play against them!

 

[Miraidon]

So based on some Room Tours on Showdown and personal experience, it seems that Zeraora paired alongside Melmetal GMax and offensive Ground-type mons like Groudon (against Steel types such as Zacian, Magearna, Melmetal, Zamazenta even; and against Zeraora, Regieleki, Volcanion and more) are working quite well. Pair that with a nasty Calyrex-Shadow Rider to clean up the chipped mons, and some speed control, and you've got quite the chance to come out on top. Having some way to boost your speed (maybe slap a Lando on there to Max Airstream) or to use Trick Room (Palkia or even P2 are viable options) will make the team very versatile. As a sidenote: this still isn't a format for Xerneas, thankfully, which means Yveltal has a role to play, especially against opposing CSR or CIR. This is what I've found up until now!

 

[007ravis]

-Marshadow: This pokemon is also great, the stats aren't as well rounded but are nicely invested into atk and speed, Spectral Thief, its signature move, steals items such a FS or LO to do great damage and offer reasonable utility, Caly-ice is a nice pair with Marshadow and also Zacian for hyper offense teams. Marshadow is somewhat weaker than Scizor but has more versatility because of its speed and wide move pool. Marshadow does have many weaknesses, basically most of the meta that can deal great damage, so recommend FS or AV to stay on the field longer. Marshadow seems like a very fun pokemon who can cripple down teams and remove useful items and I'm looking foward to seing its usage!

Spectral Thief steals the target's stat boosts, not its item.