Pet Mod VaporeMons

[zxgzxg]

Why are stat changes not allowed in this? Is it because that it would give far too much freedom to how a Pokemon should be edited? Like, if they're theoretically allowed with a loose rule of "keep it around the same BST, with a varying degree of intensity", it would still be too much right?

I was not around when this rule was put in place, but I personally find it nice for doing damage calcs during battles. No need to /dt every mon and edit stats in the calculator.

 

[Yoshiblaze]

Why are stat changes not allowed in this? Is it because that it would give far too much freedom to how a Pokemon should be edited? Like, if they're theoretically allowed with a loose rule of "keep it around the same BST, with a varying degree of intensity", it would still be too much right?

Hello!

Stat changes not being allowed goes back to the original SylveMons in Gen 7, which didn't allow stat changes and thus the future iterations (being this mod and also JolteMons last gen) also didn't allow stat changes. Aside from just "tradition", it's nice for people getting into the meta to not have to worry about stat changes on top of the billion other new things they have to account for in battle and also requires you to be more creative when you want to make OU-viable adjustment subs, which has lead to some of the best elements in each of the Sylve metas (stuff like JolteMons Wishiwashi, VaporeMons Crabominable, SylveMons Sandslash-A (real ones remember), etc.)

-

Gonna condense some of the recent liners to keep the thread from getting clogged, remember to keep one-liners to a minimum

 

[T.I.A.]

Hello!

Stat changes not being allowed goes back to the original SylveMons in Gen 7, which didn't allow stat changes and thus the future iterations (being this mod and also JolteMons last gen) also didn't allow stat changes. Aside from just "tradition", it's nice for people getting into the meta to not have to worry about stat changes on top of the billion other new things they have to account for in battle and also requires you to be more creative when you want to make OU-viable adjustment subs, which has lead to some of the best elements in each of the Sylve metas (stuff like JolteMons Wishiwashi, VaporeMons Crabominable, SylveMons Sandslash-A (real ones remember), etc.)

-

Gonna condense some of the recent liners to keep the thread from getting clogged, remember to keep one-liners to a minimum

Oh alright, so its really more or less for people to get better used to the massive amount of changed rather than those on top of being surprised that a, oh....a Ninjask suddenly OHKOs them with a Dual Wingbeat because it got 150 Attack.
Granted, that's a bit overkill and ridiculous, but I assure you got my point.

 

[Catzzadilla]

(sitting in a loungechair by the fireplace, with a top hat and monocle, sipping tea slowly and elegantly)
Oh my, would you look at that? It appears the final slate of Vaporemons has concluded. Let's take a look at the results, shall we?
(takes a glance at the results, then after a moment, sets the teacup on a nearby nightstand and rises from the chair)
Hm... Quite interesting, yes. Pardon me, I've got to deal with a little something. I'll be right back.
(I strut out of the room, closing the door behind me.)

Open the door and take a look

(Strobe and Disco lights are flashing and illuminating the room. Cats are everywhere dancing, doing the moonwalk, and DJing. The dance floor is lighting up under us like in Michael Jackson's Billie Jean music video. Two cats are passed out at the fruit punch table, and one has climbed on top of it and is knocking off the glasses to the ground. On stage, I have ripped off my coat and shirt, revealing a second, larger face on my belly, that yells with microphone-like intensity:)
MY SUBMISSION WILL BE INCLUDED IN VAPOREMONS!!!!! WOOOOO! LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(me rn)​

This is so awesome! What a great feeling to be able to contribute to such a cool community mod! Thank you to all the Flying Press fans and Software Crash supporters for believing in me! This victory is for you all as well! You guys rule!!!!!!

WE MADE IT IN AT THE FINAL SLATE!! WOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!!!! I NEVER STOPPED BELIEVING THIS FEELS INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!! I LOVE YOU AAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HECK YEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VAPOREMONS FOREVEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!!!!!!!!!!!​

(I come back hours later)
Sorry for the wait! Whew, looks like we had quite the slate, didn't we? Congratulations to all the first-time submitters and voters out there, and thank you for participating in the mod's development! Now, without further ado, on to the winners!

Moves​

Signal Beam

At first thought, a move that entirely suppresses the target's ability sounds busted, until you remember the generation we're playing in. Good as Gold! Purifying Salt! Poison Heal! Unaware! Shield Dust Protodrive! Synchronize! Regenerator! This move offers so much counterplay without being broken, as it is essentially Gastro Acid but Bug Typed, 75BP and Special. A 75BP bug move doesn't sound really appetizing on a moveslot when there are so many better options available... WHICH MEANS MORE HEAT FOR ME!!! HEHEHEHEHEHE!!!!!!!!!!
Had I thought about all this before voting I would definitely have voted for it, but it won so it all works out in the end. Excited to use this one! Man, low ladder Vaporemons sounds so fun, I wish Dragon Heaven was real...

Flying Press | Software Crash ̷̺͕̊ͅ ̶̴͕̬͍̝͙̻̈́͘͠͝ ̷̥̠́̈́ wtf bro u okay?
Oh look! It's my submission! Yeah, so uh... On a metagame standpoint... This move should be... her-hum...
Ah, screw it! I GOT IN! Thanks again everyone! Ever since (the abomination that was) X&Y, Flying Press was always one of the moves I found the most interesting, and I'm glad it can now spread its wings (wink) and fly reborn! The original effect of having two types together seemed super cool, but you would often be left with a flying move that can't hit ghost types, or a fighting move dealing neutral damage to steels. This made the potentially awesome Flying Press kind of underwhelming in application, since it kind of wasn't really good both as a fighting move and as a flying move. But now its excels at hitting two birds with one stone!... er, fist? It essentially gives you two moves for one slot, with decent BP at that! This isn't the same Flying Press I fell in love with, but it's a Flying Press I'm proud to call my own! It's a gift to all the fighting-flyings, fierce birds and martial arts fighters out there!
Software Crash, on the other hand, came to me randomly when I was thinking of another Neo-Flying-Press type move. Having a "Software Bug"-themed Bug-typed move seemed too good to pass up, and after debating between Bug/Steel or Bug/Electric, I chose Bug/Electric for its interesting coverage capabilities. Steel and Electric types have an answer to grass resists, and offensive bugs have an answer to flying predators! Really interested to see how this one turns out, and I hope you all enjoy this move in the future! :) (Distribution was mainly inspired by Machine-type steels and electric, Future Paradox mons, and mothlike/pest-like/crawly bugs, as the original technical "bug" was actually caused by an insect inside the computer, hence the term!)

Lash Out ♪♫♫♪ (they're playing emo music)
Heyyyy! Nice to see this one made it in! CC Lash Out is about to go crazy! Scale Shot Lash Out is about to go crazy! um... Ice Hammer Lash Out? Anyway, finally we get to have some variance in Dark-type moves!
POV You're Knock Off

Natural Gift ♪♪
Yes! I was a fan of this concept back when it was Seed Bomb, and I'm still a fan! It also gives Tera Blast worshippers a nice substitute, and improves the berry meta! Uhh, only thing is I have never ever seen what the base power for this move would look like. Please make it a good move, the berry fandom is ironically parched and in need of good content-type hydration.

Items​

Quick Claw ? ミ
So, looks like monoclaw is gone, which is a shame cause I kind of like that effect, as unviable as it was. At least we still have Quick Draw on Slowbro-Gangster. Indirectly, this could cause more use in Psychic terrain to nullify it, which means Terrain has more reason to be used, which is a win for me, so hooray.

Protective Pads ̽̽̽̽̽̽
Recently discovered Reckless is kind of dope as an ability, and it's nice that someone is giving this item a use now that Punching Glove does its original job but better.

Desert Rose ≈ yeehaw ≈ ?
Another congrats to The Damned, I know you've been wanting this one for a while! Florges is a mon that is kinda bad in vanilla singles due to it having no functional abilities, but here in vaporemons its ability to fulfill multiple kinds of roles is pretty cool! It's a good Special Wall that can now distance itself from Sylveon! Also, a spdef sand wall that isn't rock type? whaaaaaat?

Diancite Stone Fragment I lived Bitch
Sigh... Yeah, OSP's been subbing it for a while too. TBF, Diancie's Mega felt a lot more of a calculated risk to me than the other megas, since at any time you can boost your offenses and gain magic bounce, but you had to trade some of your defenses for it, which means activating mega isn't always a priority. In here however, you are always making that choice to mega from the start and your defenses don't drop, so I don't get that risk-reward experience. This is a huge win for diancie though, and as long as it doesn't get meteor beam, I'm happyah god damnit I just looked at its movepool, it gets meteor beam, sand spam is in.
ok but in the event that we (for some reason) get more slates post-DLC2: Please. No more megas. The future is now, old man.

Abilities​

Illusion I found you, Faker! Faker? I believe you're the fake Zoroark around here! You're comparing yourself to me? Hah! You're not even good enough to be my fake!
Please excuse the Zoroark Adventure 2 Battle meme. Anyways, thanks for fixing Zoroark, Yoshiblaze! This helps Zoroark's longetivity, and part of me... wishes it worked on hazards too, but also wishes it doesn't? Idk, Hazards make it hard to Zoroark effectively, but this should absolutely make things a lot more simple. Now I get to use one of my favorite Pokémon more often, yay!

Steadfast

I'm gonna be honest: I don't like this, or at least not at the power level that it's on right now. High BST doesn't necessarily mean better Pokémon all the time, and the mons that are potentially listed to have this aren't bulky and would rather boost their own attack power. Give this to like. Krokorok, or Naclstack, or Mudbray, or any of the walls in 350 Cup or higher.

Fair Fight
This seems cool, a nice and simple way to block setup, and is also like... Sheer Heart 2: Sheerer Heart. Would be really cool to put this both on offensive walls and wallbreakers, so we have a way to counter setup both offensively and defensively.

Adjustments​

Rotom

nice
Base: Adaptability is a nice boost to Base form, kinda feels a little like a ghost porygon now. More Weather Ball users make me happy, Pain Split should have never left, defog is ehhh it's ehhhh well it's there I guess.
Heat: Nice to have a more consistent option with Heat Wave so I don't get drops when I want to use my fire STAB
Wash: Well, there goes defog. Fitting move tho, and a good user for it. Water Veil is also a nice defensive ability, at the cost of an immunity to a weakness though.
Frost: At first, I wanted to sub Refrigerate Rotom-Frost, since it's well, really fitting, and refrigerate had no users either. But with Permafrost coming in last slate, I think it makes a great addition to Rotom-Frost. Freeze-Dry is also icing (ba-dum tss!) on the cake here since not only is it a great offensive ice move, but it could not be a better flavor move for Rotom-F. Freeze-Dry just came a generation too late.
Fan: PP aside, I see 0 reasons to use Air Cutter over Wind Breaker, so...
Mow: Natural Cure is interesting to see on Rotom, espescially over levitate, as you are no longer immune to tspikes but you can now also get rid of them I guess. Grass Knot is a tricky move for a tricky user like Rotom, but most threats in OU tend to be on the heftier side of the scale anyway.

Krookodile sir please we know its you
Krookodile is an interesting mon: Moxie, Power Trip, Knock Off+Earthquake... It stats were a bit of a letdown previously, but it now gets a few new toys (notably dragon dance) that should help it perform better, as well as support its comrades with Desert Storm and Ceaseless Edge. Nothing that puts it at the top of the leaderboard, but hey, at least now its useable.

Delphox You're a wizard, Hairy!
It might not be Skeledirge, but Hydreigon finally got their Fire/Fairy. This is a fitting and welcome buff to Delphox, and having a more defensive Court Change user sounds exciting! Round and Echo Chamber are great for pivoting and getting around subs. A bit sad that Magician is still what we have left for a defensive ability, but at least Blaze got boosted so offensive Delphox can go hard. Still think Magic Guard and Mind Blown are fitting, but as the combination of both is quite deadly, I'd go with just Magic Guard for a decent defensive ability.

Allright, that should cover it! I'd like to say more on the subject of celebrating the final slate of Vaporemons, but it's almost midnight here and I work early tomorrow morning. Maybe I'll edit this post later. Until then, thanks for everything, everyone!

 

[Beaf Cultist]

Funny bad move. Ability supression is a great effect but this move is niche at best even with a wide distribution.
/ Both of these are pretty crazy tbh lol. Far better offensive profile than either type individually, and for both of these, resists are limited to dual types only. Flying Press at least has both Zapdos and Gholdengo, which are both great mons, but for Software Crash it's pretty much just Magnezone (and Treads ig). We're gonna have to be careful with distrib on these.
Pretty crazy offensive tool in combination with CC. I'm a huge fan, but we may need to remove this from guys in the future since it really is VERY strong. Also shoutouts Lash Out Overheat Incineroar (bring it back)
OSP you clown why is it Special. Move is mid since it's Special, hopefully council changes it to Physical since that was obviously the intention.

Ultimate cringe. The previous effect was jank, sure, but it was fun. This didn't need a nerf and the new version is godawful. Like if I'm spamming priority I'm just gonna run Band or Bat, not this.
Much better. Already a solid niche item (though Punching Glove stole some of its allure), so adding in another demographic for it is a good way to increase its usage.
I don't want to talk about it (shit item, completely unusable, what were yall even thinking)
Pretty great. OU has been wanting another MBouncer and I'm fine if this is the way we go about it. I get people are whining about it being a resub but like, it's cool so who cares?

H-Zoro is a fun mon so I approve of this buff. Likely low-impact outside of that mon tho, so here's hoping it's viable now.
I don't get why people are bashing this abil. It's absolutely stellar on pretty much anything that gets it thanks to how chock-full OU is with absurdly high-BST mons. If anything, giving it to mons with higher BST is cool because it allows you to build for specific matchups instead of just blanket taking half damage from everything in OU (boring).
Real ones get the icon. Pretty solid abil, especially since from my understanding you would prevent setup moves on switch-in. Let's not give this to anything with real bulk please lol.

I mean like, it kinda had to happen at some point ig. Most relevant change is Wash Away Washtom, but it's still a very minor buff and pretty much every other aspect of this has no effect on OU. Not feeling this one tbh
IDK why people are shitting on this mon; it cooks. Great offensive typing, pretty much every good move in the mod that could possibly be given to it within flavor constraints, DD sets look solid and Scarf Ceaseless is heat. Plus, Prehistoric Might is still a great abil. Overall I like this quite a bit, and I'm looking forward to running it.
shitmon. why would I ever run this over like, Enamorus or Valiant? "Oh Fire/Fairy is a unique typing" yeah it's uniquely weak to rocks which makes this mon's mid stats even more mid lol. At least this'll tear up UU ig.

pretty whatever final slate, but the past few slates have been pretty lackluster so that's not a surprise. I think in the future we should go a bit slower with these slates to prevent burnout.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Moves
Signal Beam - Nice core enforcer and can be a good gliscor lure... no longer have to use worry seed amoonguss or use air freshener on teams to even stand a chance. Also cool coverage move. Dont have much to say but i feel it may fuck over defense a bit more than we like esp with regen other abilities. I feel its a pretty nice move to use and its being underated rn

Flying Press+ - Nice... it choosing which one is stronger is pretty nice. And only being 10BP less than CC gives it a true use which its prob gonna outclass it. Software crash is prob fine, depends on distribution tho

Lash Out - Feels nice but cc -> double stab is gonna be stupid i feel like.. like a ghost type before had to take lash out but now lash out is super powered and even makes smth like slowbro a much worse counter.

Natural Gift - I dont know... never seen it before i dont know what to expect

Items

Quick Claw - Helps smth that usually runs priority moves like iron hands, scizor, or something without fearing contact as well. A more niche addition and one i didnt expect to win... at least it makes it so BP doesnt get helmet shit but its not the item i expected to win... muscle band was prob my choice of winning instead

Protective Pads - Raptor to OU??? It is a funny item tho. It makes brave bird also suck less into static, flame body, helmet, and gooey in general. Prob viable esp with smth like mienshao using hjk or other things...

Desert Rose - Florges isnt exactly smth that is gonna take advantage of this.. i guess CM. Or maybe jsut super fat wall.. idk ill test it.. idt its as useless as beaf thinks it is and its worth a shot. This mon is gonna take jack shit in sand from special attackers and is just gonna eat shit for days esp with a Pheal boost there... another use for desert storm!

Diancite Stone Fragment - Sounds cool... offense sounds nice and esp with healing stones it can be a cool mon to use esp with wish to deny rocks from smth like gliscor esp with grassy terrain

Abilities
Illusion - Nice... allows it to actually stay disguised a lot longer and makes it worth preserving your health

Steadfast - Dont think so... not many good users of steadfast and even then makes it so that lycanroc still struggles with damage even at +2... and SE hits are still gonna nuke it. I see it maybe in UU but not in OU as in its current state and distribution.

+2 lucario on the other hand sounds pretty nice to use... esp since it takes minimal damage and has a decent typing with a bit of bulk. But with HO dead in the water rn at least screens we will see how this impacts the meta. I dont have a way to analyze its viability rn but oh well

Fair Fight - Sounds ok... esp superpower boosts just not resetting or close combat... it sounds nice.... but even then it sounds a bit unfair as an anti setup mon ... sounds like unaware but worse to play against but oh well.. yama isnt exactly an OU mon, bisharp isnt either, and arcanine isnt cutting it into OU.. ill rather use dirge if i want anti setup.

This ability has potential but i dont see its vision rn in battle....

Adjustments

Rotoms (YB) - The only relevant forms are wash, maybe base with adaptabiliy, and rotom-c with its ability to sit on gliscor endlessly..... while they are nice rotom-wash is prob gonna be the one in OU maybe with rotom-c being in OU to. THey are prob gonna be both insanely valuable but how will rotom-c deal with gholdengo is another question (idt its much of a problem just annoying at best and troublesome at worst)

Krookodile - Insane ground competition with tusk and gliscor for a def spot as a spiker.... but it has a great opportunity at being a DD setup sweeper with power trip esp with WP. With WP you can just get 80BP for free. Might is a great ability and might see use on it but intimidate is invaluable + allows it to setup easier

Delphox - Disagree with beaf... why would i run it over enamorus? Well usually enamorus struggles as shit to bypass steels.... and it has a great dual stab to back it up.... What resists it in OU? Esp with blaze fire blast you are not taking it well. You also have great utility with wish protect to pass to teammate and you have court change to switch up the hazard game. You are massively underating this pokemon.

Why would i use this over valiant? Well can valiant play a def role? nah it cant at all... it cant even fathom to be a great def counter to many things, but also fire blast + moonblast is a special variant and you say physical is a muhc better set.... so idt there is much competition at all..

Its a great def typing esp at counting the steels in OU that is not called heatran... fire covers fairy steel weakness. Also court change allowing you to stone wall shaymin esp with sp. def and bring the healing stones on your side...that is a very nice trait to have

 

[Yoshiblaze]

Distribution results!!!!!

Moves

Signal Beam -
Flying Press -
Software Crash -
Lash Out - Old distribution +
Natural Gift -

Abilities

Illusion - ,,,
Steadfast - ,(Replaces Keen Eye),(Replaces Inner Focus),(Replaces Battle Armor),(Replaces Early Bird),(Replaces Swarm),(Replaces Synchronize...which had just replaced steadfast lol)
Fair Fight - ,(Replaces Thick Fat),(Replaces Flash Fire),(Replaces Shell Armor),(Replaces Soundproof),(Replaces Keen Eye),(Replaces Anger Point/Snow Cloak)

Additionally, much like we did in JolteMons with the Ultra Beasts, we decided to give the Paradox Pokemon that lacked Hidden Abilities so Hidden Abilities, exclusively from newly added abilities:
Muscle Memory
Gale Wings
Water Veil

And lastly, we would usually wait until either right before or right after a roomtour before making any changes to things that just won, but this one is a... special case:
- Natural Gift will now be a Physical move instead of Special - This change is simply due to the fact that it's been admitted that it was Special by mistake and I think it's fair to assume that almost everyone who voted for it voted it thinking it was exactly like the Natural Gift of old, aside from the buffs, move category included (if you did vote for it knowing it was a Special move, then I do apologize), with both the sub's original description and the distribution council ended up coming up with being based around the move being physical (+ flavor for the latter).

With that, we look ahead to our first roomtour with our complete mod, which will be on Sunday at 4 PM on DragonHeaven! Hope to see you there!

 

[The Damned]

Computer problems getting even worse aside, I should be around Sunday unlike the next couple of days. Congrats to all who won, both in the last slate and period. Pretty funny that Gholdengo and, less surprisingly, Gliscor escaped being nerfed to the bitter end. Heh.

Also:

Distribution results!!!!!

Additionally, much like we did in JolteMons with the Ultra Beasts, we decided to give the Paradox Pokemon that lacked Hidden Abilities so Hidden Abilities, exclusively from newly added abilities:
Muscle Memory
Gale Wings
Water Veil

This was going to bother me if some of them didn't have secondaries--R.I.P. & Regi ability parity though--even as much as none of these mons deserve or needed buffs, so thank you. Otherwise I'll force myself to be actually brief once post-distribution:

Signal Beam: Glad this won even if it doing so seems like it solidifies VaporeMons as the SylveMons mod with the most ability negation period and even if it makes the amount of Neutralizing Gas mons we ended up with even more redundant though.

Flying Press: I'd be more "jelly" about Corviknight's dumb self getting this if it didn't already have Body Press though this does potentially condense two moveslots for it without Brave Bird's recoil--lucky bastard (that still has to deal with Gholdengo telling it to go to hell like it deserves).

Software Crash: Rotom-Wash being able to hit Grass types super-effectively now might end up getting really tiresome really quick, but I otherwise agree with Rotom getting it; I guess it's nice for Rotom-Mow too in that sense.

Lash Out: This might need to be taken away from a few mons that already have it honestly, like Roaring Moon, given how easy those conditions are to fill. Otherwise it should be fine.

Natural Gift: Finally a real move, especially since it's been changed back to be Physical like it "should" be.

Quick Claw: Glad this won as one of the two things I'm glad HydreigontheChild covered because even if Quick Claw is hardly overpowered, gods it can/could be annoying when it works. (Shame we couldn't have fixed Quick Draw too even if it seems next to no one is using Glowbro anyway.)

Protective Pads: Also glad these won and hope they're fine since a lot of stuff can hit pretty hard with them rather freely now in theory.

Desert Rose: Legitimately surprised this won despite resubmitting it, especially since I agree that Sand still sucks unfortunately and likely will continue to do so until maybe DLC2, though that's pretty close at this point, so I guess we'll see. I'll use it Sunday to see just how underwhelming it is. (Psst. Retroactively give Florges Meteor Beam please.)

Diancie Fragment: Gods, I hate this, even as someone who actually likes Diancie-Mega. It would have been hypocritical for me to vote for it though given how I felt about the Charizard Fragments, and Diancie-Mega is basically the Mega that's most different from its normal form given how much Diancie's stats change. Sigh. Oh well. It shouldn't break anything at least, especially with all the priority around and the overall higher speed tiers this gen.

Illusion: Pretty nice and fitting on Ditto surprisingly. Good job whoever suggested that. I guess we'll see if either Zoroark is that much more usable though.

Steadfast: Glad this won even though I'm going to have to teambuilder open on my phone every battle now to make sure what BST is what. Also ha at Gallade hokey-pokeying ability-wise.

Fair Fight: Nice to see this win too in addition to base-Arcanine getting one final buff.

Rotoms: Finally.

Krookodile: Barely didn't vote for this, so I'm fine with it winning. Hope it makes Krookodile actually worth using this gen because man that poor thing seems like it's one of the mons that got wrecked in Gen 09 in general.

Delphox: The other thing that I'm glad HydreigontheChild submitted so that I didn't have to despite genuinely not caring much about Delphox to be honest (and never getting an adjustment win). A Fire/Fairy mon is just a nice typing in general, though I wish that Magician was changed to literally almost anything else despite fitting Delphox's flavor since it's still never using that.


Have a good rest of the week.

 

[Yoshiblaze]

Popping in real quick to remind everyone that we will have our first post-submission slates roomtour this Sunday at 4 PM EST!
See you there!

 

[IceLevelIncarnate]

Now that Vaporemons is (somewhat) Joever, I want to air out one minor frustration that like... maybe two other people care about at max, but it feels like now is a better time than ever to talk about what I think was some huge missed potential.

The Weather/Terrain Proto/Drive abilities.

oh wait i gotta comment on slate first uhhhhh

wtf was desert rose cooking and why did it win. anyways

These won really early on in Slate 2 and, flavor grievances aside, I think they set a very interesting premise for submissions to follow up on every slate after. They, in theory, gave every weather and terrain a potential abuser with a fat BST. Some were dealt a worse hand than others, inevitably, but that's what adjustments were for. This change opened the gates for making plausible playstyles, or even just powerful cores for every weather and terrain. Sun and Rain teams are already time-tested powerful archetypes, Sand and Snow having mixed track records, and past the hayday of Gen 7 and Tapu cores, Grassy users mostly just consist of and Electric only had a resurgence this gen thanks to Quark Drive, but doesn't have any good setters, like most other terrains. How did these additions pan out for these potential playstyles?

It... didn't turn out much different from what we already had.

Sun and Rain got better abusers due to how already good those weathers are and how many strong Water and Fire types already exist. Sand got a good number of additions, for better or for worse (pre-nerf Sand Clock Meteor Beam lmao) and is probably in talks of being a viable playstyle in lower tiers. Snow got back from Teal Mask, but even before that, were an incredibly powerful core that never really benefitted any actual Ice types (that didn't get banned by standard OU ), as per the norm.

Grassy Terrain got an upgraded Grass Pelt that turned its setters into juggernauts and gave the playstyle some merit, Electric Terrain didn't get any setters or direct additions, ending up oddly in an even worse spot than standard play. And Psychic and Misty Terrain got... nothing. No new setters, no unique abilities, no moves that set or interacted with it, nothing. Misty has its own problems I could understand the hesitation on, but Psychic not getting anything to assist Psyspam playstyles was especially surprising to me.

Not to say submitters didn't try to capitalize on this, but slate after slate of these things not winning is what I think gradually wore down the resolve of those trying to make these archetypes viable. Wash Away winning Slate 7, an attacking Defog clone made to address the hazard problem also still removing terrains despite being harder to block felt like one of the final nails in the coffin (thank you Beaf very cool <3).

Did we need all the weathers and terrains to be on an equal playing field? Would Vaporemons have turned into some uber-balanced utopia if they were? No, definitely not. I probably wouldn't have even thought to bother doing anything with Misty Terrain of all things if that Proto/Drive sub hadn't won. But it won pretty early into the meta and set a blueprint that kinda got balled up and thrown in the trash at some point, and I just think that's a real shame.

anyways catch me at the tour with prankster manual misty terrain / LO core its gonna be heat

 

[Beaf Cultist]

Sun and Rain got better abusers due to how already good those weathers are and how many strong Water and Fire types already exist. Sand got a good number of additions, for better or for worse (pre-nerf Sand Clock Meteor Beam lmao) and is probably in talks of being a viable playstyle in lower tiers. Snow got back from Teal Mask, but even before that, were an incredibly powerful core that never really benefitted any actual Ice types (that didn't get banned by standard OU ), as per the norm.

Grassy Terrain got an upgraded Grass Pelt that turned its setters into juggernauts and gave the playstyle some merit, Electric Terrain didn't get any setters or direct additions, ending up oddly in an even worse spot than standard play. And Psychic and Misty Terrain got... nothing. No new setters, no unique abilities, no moves that set or interacted with it, nothing. Misty has its own problems I could understand the hesitation on, but Psychic not getting anything to assist Psyspam playstyles was especially surprising to me.

This is an interesting talking point so I wanna give my own thoughts on this situation and how I feel about how things turned out.

Rain: Brute Bonnet kinda cooks tbh tbh ngl. But yeah Rain didn't need better abusers so it didn't really get better abusers. Both Scream and Bonnet function on Rain so in theory you could run them, and tbh I think that's all we could ask for.

Sun: Not sure what you mean about Sun getting better abusers considering in reality the playstyle got absolutely gutted. Walking Wake (thankfully) still carries Sun like Keldeo did in Joltemons, but Sun is far worse here than it is in base, and Raging Fury Slither Wing is nowhere near good enough to prop it up.

Sand: Sandy Shocks is honestly a pretty cool Sand abuser. It functions as a sweeper, still works outside of Sand (though not as well of course), and is basically just another flavor of Excadrill, which is fun. I think you're underrating the Meteor Beam buff when you talk about "later additions that improved upon this concept" because it absolutely made a huge difference in Sand's viability. On the flipside, Great Tusk didn't really pan out and I still think it's stupid how both of the Ground guys got the Sand abil, so if I had to make one change to Protos at this point I'd swap Great Tusk and Slither Wing. Overall Sand is better here than in base (by a mile!) so I'd call this one a win.

Snow: Glowking Moon is based. The end.

But like actually, Roaring Moon Snow is super epic. Very cool new take on the mon (and much less cringe than Moon Sun*), and since Vape added a ton of new viable Dark resists, it's not overbearing at all like it is in OU. Snow is probably the least... traditional(?) of the weathers in Vape since it plays more like Offense than Hyper Offense (though Sand can be similar, but its singular sweeper is far more explosive than Roaring Moon or Jolteon), but I think that variety adds value to it instead of being detrimental.
*after the Light Clay ban

The terrains were definitely worse off (though this is also true in base), but they're still worth going over.

Grassy Terrain: The obvious outlier. Shaymin/Iron Hands/Iron Moth are all INSANELY good, and Grassy Terrain is easily one of the most consistent playstyles in Vape thanks to a litany of buffs over time, so imo this is the biggest argument against your take on things not really expanding upon the Paradox abilities over time. GTerrain in Vape is probably its single most unique playstyle compared to base, and that's partly thanks to Photon Drive, so overall I'd call this one a big win.

Electric Terrain: Yeah this one is ass. Iron Thorns tho !!!!!!!

Misty Terrain: I think you're just wrong on this one honestly. First off, we added the Revavrooms, which does technically mean we added a new Misty Surge mon. That being said, Revavroom sucks balls, so for the sake of this argument I'm just gonna ignore it. However, Weezing-Galar was indirectly buffed a TON during the DLC1 distribution phase. Life Dew and Healing Stones are both amazing for it, and considering how its terrain enables the single most explosive offensive Paradox mon that isn't banned, I absolutely believe that Misty Terrain has a place in OU.

Psychic Terrain: Saved this one for last because I wholly disagree with your take here. Personally, I'm glad that Psyspam didn't get more tools, because if it did all we'd be doing is enabling HO cheese, which is awful to play against and awful for meta health if it gets too consistent. Not to mention, Iron Jugulis is an amazing mon without even using Neuron Drive, making its placement on Psyspam teams somewhat dubious (though they do appreciate having a Dark type who synergizes with the playstyle). Overall, I'm glad this one is ass, and I hope it stays that way.

Anyway, after running through all of these, I think you're being too harsh overall. Most of these are better here than in base, and all of those except maybe Rain are directly influenced by their respective Paradoxes. Sure, we could've added another Electric Surge mon, or a better Sand abuser (Bramble....), but I think things are fine as they are. Every playstyle has its place in the meta, and that's pretty cool. Also nah Wash Away is for the better lol, GTerrain is crazy even with it.

 

[IceLevelIncarnate]

snip

don't wanna flood the thread with this convo so I'll just quickly say

Sun and Rain definitely didn't need to get better, but I think standard OU had me Protosynthesis-pilled enough to think Sun was still swinging as strong as it usually does. Still pretty good, just not as good as it usually manages.

Didn't mean to underrate Meteor Beam, mostly just pointing out how frankly ridiculous it was pre-patch. Sand got a lot of love, up to debate how many of those additions were worthwhile, but I think Sand was the biggest overall winner. Or second, if not for Grassy Terrain.

Nothing to say about Snow, more or less agree on it.

I was more stressing that in terms of viability, Grassy Terrain is still pretty much the only viable terrain of the bunch that sees any use compared to standard play. Vaporemons just ended up exaggerating it and making GTerrain teams a lot more viable, there's a world of difference between it and other terrains.

I entirely forgot exists, not just as a Misty setter but as a Pokemon, period. It definitely enables one of the strongest non-banned mons in the game and forms a good core, playstyle beyond that leaves a lot to be desired but what it does do isn't anything to shake a stick at.

Thinking on it more, yeah, stuff like Armarouge and Stored Power spammers like Espathra would've been enabled waaay too hard if we had a (viable) Psychic Surge mon, so fair enough.

you're right wash away was so fire somebody tried to sub it to eramons, true heat cannot be contained

 

[LOrd Fernado]

you're right wash away was so fire somebody tried to sub it to eramons, true heat cannot be contained

 

[Yoshiblaze]

Popping in real quick to remind everyone that we will have our first post-submission slates roomtour this Sunday at 4 PM EST!
See you there!

Another reminder that the roomtour will be tomorrow! (The message on Discord mistakenly said it'd be today but it is in fact tomorrow!)

To help you with any last second teambuilding, here's a PokePaste of some potential sets featuring new things from Slate 10!
Slate 10 Potentially Relevant Sets

See you tomorrow!

 

[Yoshiblaze]

The first post-submissions slates roomtour is in the books!

Tour #7 - VaporeMons - Round Robin - 7 Entrants
1st: zxgzxg (6-0)
2nd: Mintly (4-2)
2nd: The Damned (4-2)
4th: HydreigonTheChild (3-3)

Usage Stats

VaporeMons Roomtour Usage Stats

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Great Tusk         |   21 |  50.00% |  47.62% |
| 2    | Ogerpon-Wellspring |   16 |  38.10% |  75.00% |
| 3    | Magearna           |    8 |  19.05% |  75.00% |
| 3    | Sandy Shocks       |    8 |  19.05% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Gliscor            |    8 |  19.05% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Greninja-*         |    8 |  19.05% |  37.50% |
| 3    | Iron Valiant       |    8 |  19.05% |  37.50% |
| 8    | Milotic            |    7 |  16.67% |  42.86% |
| 9    | Indeedee           |    6 |  14.29% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Azelf              |    6 |  14.29% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Dragapult          |    6 |  14.29% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Roaring Moon       |    6 |  14.29% |  66.67% |
| 9    | Spidops            |    6 |  14.29% |  66.67% |
| 9    | Vaporeon           |    6 |  14.29% |  66.67% |
| 9    | Slowking-Galar     |    6 |  14.29% |  66.67% |
| 9    | Snorlax            |    6 |  14.29% |  66.67% |
| 9    | Lucario            |    6 |  14.29% |  66.67% |
| 9    | Magnezone          |    6 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Mandibuzz          |    6 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Garganacl          |    6 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Meloetta           |    6 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Heatran            |    6 |  14.29% |  33.33% |
| 9    | Thundurus          |    6 |  14.29% |  33.33% |
| 9    | Munkidori          |    6 |  14.29% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Diancie            |    5 |  11.90% |  60.00% |
| 25   | Iron Moth          |    5 |  11.90% |  20.00% |
| 27   | Hippowdon          |    4 |   9.52% |  75.00% |
| 27   | Landorus           |    4 |   9.52% |  25.00% |
| 27   | Brambleghast       |    4 |   9.52% |  25.00% |
| 27   | Garchomp           |    4 |   9.52% |  25.00% |
| 27   | Tyranitar          |    4 |   9.52% |  25.00% |
| 27   | Shaymin            |    4 |   9.52% |  25.00% |
| 33   | Florges            |    3 |   7.14% |  66.67% |
| 33   | Kingambit          |    3 |   7.14% |  33.33% |
| 33   | Toxapex            |    3 |   7.14% |  33.33% |
| 33   | Sinistcha          |    3 |   7.14% |  33.33% |
| 33   | Revavroom-*        |    3 |   7.14% |  33.33% |
| 38   | Weezing-Galar      |    2 |   4.76% |  50.00% |
| 38   | Iron Treads        |    2 |   4.76% |  50.00% |
| 38   | Salamence          |    2 |   4.76% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Alomomola          |    2 |   4.76% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Florges-White      |    1 |   2.38% | 100.00% |
| 42   | Walking Wake       |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Rillaboom          |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Landorus-Therian   |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Azumarill          |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Chesnaught         |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Muk-Alola          |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Hatterene          |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Meowscarada        |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Iron Hands         |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Scyther            |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Yanmega            |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Spiritomb          |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Vespiquen          |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Palafin            |    1 |   2.38% |   0.00% |

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-236
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-234
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-235
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-237
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-238
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-239
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-241
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-242
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-240
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-244
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-245
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-243
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-246
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-248
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-250
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-247
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-251
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-252
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-253
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-254
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-255

Some quick takeaways
- This was a pretty weird roomtour overall, a lot of more gimmicky things coming out, which did certainly make for an interesting tour to watch. From Misty Terrain, to Mud-Slap Tera Shard Ground Vaporeon, heavy Sand teams, a team that sought to spam Rollout, and even the team piloted by the undefeated winner zxgzxg featuring a PsySpam core of Indeedee and Expanding Force Outclass Tera Shard Psychic Azelf. A lot of experimentation in this tour for sure. Also, TIL that the Lake Trio got Expanding Force, brb as I figure out a way to use this in VGC...
- Great Tusk, Ogerpon-W, and Magearna being at the top of the usage stats, however, is far from weird, which a couple usual suspects in Gliscor and Iron Valiant also being up there along with the slightly weirder but still good Sandy Shocks and Greninja.
- I was somewhat impressed by a couple lesser used Pokemon's performances as well, particularly defensive Milotic being a sturdy wall that's mostly been seen in more offensive roles so far, and Steadfast Lucario getting a couple wins and near-wins
- Already mentioned Sandy Shock earlier, but yeah that mon continues to be the only thing keeping Sand remotely relevant right now

And that's all! The next step for VaporeMons is for us to occasionally still have these roomtours for meta development and fun, but, aside from any balancing that council needs to do, I would like to get started on making resources for VaporeMons like VR, sample sets, role compendium, and more, so keep an eye for anything on that front or anything else.

See you soon!

 

[The Damned]

GGs everyone. Somehow simultaneously feel like a haxed a couple of people, including outside of the tour, due to get a bunch of crits despite getting any procs today outside of Spirit Break's guaranteed one. Yeah, this tour was weird. Some minor notes before I go for my much delayed daily exercise

1. Despite having apparently having thought Florges had Life Dew for some reason until yesterday despite it not getting it even in JolteMons, it still decently enough. I am now, however, rather annoyed at myself for not just giving it outright Sand Stream even how out of it I've been this entire year. A Sand setter that isn't weak to Water or Grass would have had far more of niche than a somewhat impotent set-up mon (given it doesn't have Earth Power either), even if it was limited to "only" 5 turns and even before all of the Ogerpon-Wellspring running around. Oh well. Sigh.
2. That said, it's a bit amusing that the color variant continue to coding pains in the ass for minor things since it's like everything else on Florges-White seemed to work except for the healing on Desert Rose. Weird.
3. Speaking of minor and amusing things, I finally understand how Momentum works for sure, so that's nice...including that it currently just outright doesn't heal the mon before it switches out if using a pivoting move. Somewhat funny that, and maybe for the best given how obnoxious pivoting moves can be.
4. Magnezone continues to be one of the better buffed mons despite how little it was changed overall, which continues to be a bit sad in its own right. Echo Chamber hits surprisingly hard on it even without a Sound move being used, and it's basically "anti-Gliscor: The Mon" between Levitate, Rebuild, and especially Signal Beam now.
5. I think Revavroom got more used today than it has ever before, though I still have only seen two of the Shard forms used and was using the regular (with Tie-Dye Band and all Momentum-based, non-STAB moves) because even without its hat item--R.I.P.-- Weezing-Galar still seems like it does Misty Surge better unfortunately. Maybe if Revavroom had gotten Rapid Spin....
6. Haze being able to get rid of Diance's "Mega" boosts is funny even if that item otherwise worries me a bit now that I've realized it keeps Diancie's excellent Def. and SpD stats unlike actual Diancie-Mega basically halving them. (I have to imagine that Haze does the same for the Charizard "Megas" that I've still never seen anyone use personally.)
7. And last and probably least, in the sole game I played outside of the tour, I learned that Heal Block doesn't seem to block the switch-in healing from Life Dew despite otherwise negating Life Dew: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vaporemons-256. I imagine that's unintentional as well as not just an odd quirk of Spiritomb's Odd Keystone.

Have a good night and a good week.

2022/11/13 EDIT: Typos, mostly of omission, now finally fixed.

 

[Catzzadilla]

Gonna keep this brief, just gonna say I enjoyed the roomtour, it was fun seeing everyone's different teams and playstyles! Some of the highlights I encountered were Last Resort Snorlax, Expanding Force Azelf, Misty Terrain Healing Stones Rollout Pivot, and Big Slapper. It's nice to see that the freshness of this format allows for some never-before seen creativity on the side of teambuilding, and I hope that doesn't stop when DLC2 drops.

For those interested, those are the teams I used during the tour:

Grassy Terrain
Sand
This one just sucks honestly don't pick this one

VaporeMons​

Welcome to VaporeMons, the third mod in the SylveMons series! Like JolteMons last generation, this mod looks to add and change moves, items, and abilities to create a more interesting Gen 9 OU metagame. Pokémon can also be given non-stat adjustments.

Thought about this a lot when making and voting on submissions, and tbf, I think I can say this pet mod achieved its goal. Is it a completely different OU? No, not really. But it is certainly more interesting, and I'm glad I got to contribute to this community mod. Got to meet some interesting people, work and develop my creative side a lil bit, and I think it was just what I needed. Still wish I joined earlier, but eh, what can you do .

◊ I guess the real VaporeMons were the friends we made along the way ◊

​

All of my submissions for those who want a reference (this is like the credits at the end of the move/video game!)

Slate 7

Moves

Name: Pledge Pulse
Power: 40
Accuracy: 100
PP: 10
Category: Special
Type: ??? (or normal)
Effect: Two-hit move. The first hit's type is randomly chosen between Grass, Fire and Water, and the second hit's type is randomly chosen between the remaining two other types. If Fire + Grass is chosen, starts Sea of Fire on the opponent's side. If Water + Grass is chosen, starts Swamp on the opponent's side. If Fire + Water is chosen, starts Rainbow on the user's side. Will never select Grass against a target with Sap Sipper, Water against a target with Storm Drain or Water Absorb, or Fire against an opponent with Flash Fire. STAB is applied on hits of the relevant type.
Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Mirror, Protect, Pulse.
Potential Pokémon With This Move: Pokémon previously able to use Grass, Fire or Water Pledge,
Justification: A Twin Beam-esque way of implementing the pledge effects in singles. The distribution includes dual-types who will get at least 1 stab boost, fast users with one of the typings, technician users, mega launcher users, and specially-oriented support Pokémon.

Name: Mist
Power: N/A
Accuracy: N/A
PP: 30
Category: Status
Type: Ice
Effect: For 7 turns, the user and its party members are protected from having their stat stages lowered. Fails if the effect is already active on the user's side.
Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Snatch
Potential Pokémon With This Move: Current users, ,
Justification: A seldom-seen "field effect", now given more utility by preventing self-afflicted stat drops. The duration has been changed from 5 to 7 turns so that it is 5 turns long by the time you set this up and switch to your user. If this needs a nerf, the duration could stay at 5 turns (8 with damp rock)

Name: Cultist Chant
Power: 85
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 15
Category: Special
Type: Psychic
Effect: Has a 100% Chance of starting the effects of Lucky Chant, Safeguard, or Mist. Will not select an effect that is already active.
Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Authentic, Mirror, Protect, Sound
Potential Pokémon With This Move:
Justification: A way to activate multiple relatively-unused beneficial field effects. The userbase is quite large, but it's because I skimmed (no, I'm lying, I actually put a lot of time) through the dex and gave it to every mon who looked like it could be part of a cult. Obviously I trust the council to make a better distribution than me.

Items

Name: The Banana
Effect: Restores 50% HP at 33% or lower and sets a banana peel field hazard on the opponent's side of the field.

Banana peel

Grounded Pokémon switching in will take 12.5% damage and be prompted to switch out again after hazard damage phase. Is removed upon activation.

Can Be Knocked Off (Yes or No): Yes, with the exception of monkeys ( ) and
Ignored by Klutz (Yes or No): No
Fling Power & Effect: 80BP, sets banana peel hazard
Justification: There have criminally been no bananas in pokémon battling aside from those on tropius's neck, and this aims to rectify that. Could be counted as a berry, since bananas are actually berries!

Adjustments

Turns out these aren't able to come back to gen 9, but at least they get to stay on my post, and say hi to you while you browse my adjustments :)



Name: Ampharos
Type: Electric
Abilities: Galvanize, Muscle Memory, Static
New Moves: Echoed Voice, Weather Ball, Round, Terrain Pulse, Tri Attack, Draco Meteor.
Removed Moves:
Justification: Ampharos now has more utility in Weather and Terrain as a Galvanize Special Attacker. Plus was awful as his only non-static ability, and Muscle Memory can be used on choice or metronome sets.

(this next one is not the exact same as is submitted on Slate 7, but this is an updated version that was not submitted again)

Name: Gliscor
Type: Ground/Dark
Abilities: Sand Force, Exoskeleton, Poison Heal
New Moves: Comeuppance, Hone Claws, Jaw Lock, Throat Chop, Lash Out, Foul Play, Beat Up, False Surrender, Accelerock, Rollout, Ceaseless Edge, Choke, Sucker Punch, Shore Up, Bulk Up, Defog
Removed Moves: Substitute, Acrobatics, Dual Wingbeat, Tailwind, Wind Breaker, Aerial Ace, Toxic, Spikes, Toxic Spikes
Justification: New Landorus is still completely outclassed by Gliscor so let's clip this guy's wings. Gliscor is still very defensive, but has some new tools to be a Sand sweeper, a binding band trapper, wallbreaker... Thanks to its dark typing, it is now more offensive than defensive but still has an immunity to psychic, resists stealth rock more and has Rollout as pivot, and has its fighting and grass weaknesses nullified by Exoskeleton. The Poison Heal set can still be run effectively. Gliscor's Dark movepool was already great thanks to Crunch, Knock Off and Fling, and is now not only expanded but boosted as well by STAB. Ceaseless Edge sets Gliscor apart from Landorus even more, False Surrender and Accelerock serve as wallbreaking tools, with the latter serving also as priority along with Sucker Punch, Throat Chop stops Echo Chamber, Round Pivots and other noisy opponents, Choke checks regenerators such as the Slow family, Amoonguss, Mienshao and Pex.
Overall, this Gliscor is still a bulky threat, but should now do more active damage than passive damage.

Slate 8

Moves

Name: Witch Kick
Power: 85
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 20
Category: Physical
Type: Psychic
Effect: Afflicts the target with Torment
Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Contact, Protect, Mirror
Potential Pokémon With This Move:
Justification: There are 6 physical psychic type moves including cutting remark, 2 of which are signatures. This one may not be as strong as a sharp Psyblade or Psycho cut, but it does shut down choice users and reduces your opponent's options, giving you more breathing room.

Name: Fell Stinger
Power: 50
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 20
Category: Physical
Type: Poison
Effect: Raises the user's attack by 3 stages if it causes the target to faint. If the move hits, until the end of this turn, any move against the user deals double damage and bypasses accuracy/evasion checks to always hit.
Priority: +1
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Contact, Mirror, Protect
Potential Pokémon With This Move: Current users +
Justification: My favorite physical move gets a buff to be more usable, with a very high risk if you don't kill with it. This move is a killing blow and a killing blow ONLY. Don't get caught with your pants down. Revenge kill Iron Valiant, Enamorus, Hearthflame, Meowscarada, and Scream Tail, but you're gonna Scream if you get caught with your Tail exposed

Name: Heat Wave
Power: 95
Accuracy: 90%
PP: 10
Category: Special
Type: Fire
Effect: Current Effect + On Grassy Terrain, nullifies Grassy Terrain for the opposing side and turns it into Sea of Fire. In Rain, starts Rainbow on the user's side.
Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Protect, Mirror, Wind
Potential Pokémon With This Move: Current Distribution +
Justification: Doubles moves gaining utility in singles! Fire type move gaining rain utility! More synergy for Terrain!

Name: Milk Drink / Soft-Boiled / Slack Off / Synthesis / Moonlight
Power: -
Accuracy: -
PP: 5 (max 8)
Category: Status
Type: Grass (Synthesis) / Fairy (Moonlight) / Normal (the rest)
Effect: More diversity in recovery moves.
Milk Drink: The user restores 50% HP. If the user has eaten a berry, reactivate that berry's effect.
Soft-Boiled: Recovers 50% HP. If the user is a Water type, it loses its water typing for the rest of the turn. If a Pokémon makes contact with the user before its next move, the attacker becomes burned.
Slack Off: The user recovers 50% HP. Lowers the user's speed by 1 stage.
Synthesis: During no terrain: recovers 50% HP. Grassy Terrain is active: recovers 66% HP. Other terrain is active: recovers 25% HP.
Moonlight: During no terrain: recovers 50% HP. Misty Terrain is active: recovers 66% HP. Other terrain is active: recovers 25% HP.
Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound):
Potential Pokémon With This Move: Current Users for all / Milk Drink: / Soft-Boiled: / Slack Off: / Synthesis: / Moonlight: . Other Recovery move users could also have their recovery redistributed with a new one if it suits them better, and vice versa.
Justification:

More diversity in recovery moves!

Milk Drink encourages the use of held berries.
Soft-Boiled frees it from Egg Jail and gives the eggs some counter to their physical side, and gives a recovery to frail or underused waters (not you, Empoleon)
Slack Off is already popular among viable Trick Room mons, and allows the potential mons to perform better in it.
Synthesis swaps from Sunshine to Grassy Terrain, to avoid conflicting with Morning Sun and give terrain players some actual synergy.
Moonlight does the same, for the underused Misty Terrain.
With this, all the recovery moves in the game (minus recover, the golden standard) should have unique mechanics built into them that give them more "game essence". Roost also grounds you, Rebuild heals a fixed amount of HP, Pain Split is a divide between both opponent's HP, Shore Up is Morning Sun but for sand, and Strength Sap lowers your opponent's Attack.

Items

Name: Leaf Wings
Effect: If the user is Shiftry: Gain the resistances and immunities of the Flying Type, no longer grounded, Speed boosted by 1.5
Can Be Knocked Off (Yes or No): No
Ignored by Klutz (Yes or No): Yes
Fling Power & Effect: Fails
Justification: Shiftry's Violet Pokédex entry: "Legends tell of a bird Pokémon that received divine punishment for its evil deeds and had its beak and wings replaced." Shiftry got a nice buff in Wind Rider, but is sadly still held back by its typing and speed. This alleviates Shiftry's bug weakness a little bit, removes his fighting weakness, and makes him immune to most hazards while still resisting stealth rocks, making him a nice fast defogger or tailwind setter that can also use the latter for offensive pressure.

Name: Baseball Glove
Effect: If the opposing Pokémon tries setting up hazards, they are prevented from doing so and are dealt 1/16th of damage and inflicted confusion.
Can Be Knocked Off (Yes or No): Yes
Ignored by Klutz (Yes or No): No
Fling Power & Effect: 20BP
Justification: This is not magic bounce, as it only prevents hazards from being set and dealing damage + confusion to the opponent as punishment. It does not lay the intercepted hazards. Does nothing with the hazards already on the ground, too, use hazardous waste for that.

Abilities

Name: Unfinished Business
Effect: When the user's HP reaches 0%, it is prevented from dying until the end of the current turn. If the user KOs a Pokémon, it is prevented from dying until the end of the next turn. HP cannot be recovered when at 0% in any way. Using a Self-KO move will not trigger this ability.
Permanent (Yes or No): No
Mold Breaker (Yes or No): No
Potential Pokémon With This Ability:
Justification: Rip and Tear, until it is done. Given to angry mons, fast glass cannons, and other mons who seem to have unfinished business in their dex entries. For the underdog who is too frail to unleash its true potential, yet too angry to die.

Name: Corrosion
Effect: This Pokémon can poison or badly poison a Pokémon regardless of its typing. Allows the Pokémon's Poison-type moves to hit Steel types not very effectively.
Permanent (Yes or No): No
Mold Breaker (Yes or No): Yes
Potential Pokémon With This Ability: Current Users ( ) +
Justification: Why isn't this vanilla behavior since gen 7? "Oh look, a pokémon whose poison is so potent, it can contaminate steel!" "Oh great, so I should be able to sludge bomb this heatran, right?" "Well... no, because steel is immune to poison."

Slate 9

Moves

Name: Powder
Power: -
Accuracy:100%
PP: 20
Category: Status
Type: Bug
Effect: Covers the target in Powder until the target's next move. If the user uses a Fire-type or Electric-type move, they take damage equal to 33% of their maximum HP and cannot execute the move (PP is still consumed).
Priority: +3
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Powder (duh), Mirror, Protect, Reflectable
Potential Pokémon With This Move:
Justification: In the era of Blaze Vaporemons, enters its "allergic to pollen" arc. Aside from its mediocre previous distribution (just Vivillon), the move still felt kind of niche so I added an extra niche in preventing Volt Switch (and electricity could cause Powder to burst into flame too, anyway.). The move already had priority, but I switched to until the target's next move in case of Quick Claw, full para, sleep turns, or other shenanigans, and gave it +3 in case of Chain Lightning, Galvanize Extremespeed, Thunder Clap, or whatever else the future holds. Slight boost in damage from 25% to 33% to make it respectable.

Name: Trick-or-Treat | Forest's Curse
Power: -
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 20 (max 32)
Category: Status
Type: Ghost | Grass
Effect: Adds the ghost type to the target, in addition to the Pokémon's original type(s). If it is used against a dual-typed Pokémon, that Pokémon will become triple-typed. (Ghost-Type version of Forest's Curse) | Effect Unchanged
Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Mirror, Protect, Reflectable
Potential Pokémon With This Move: |
Justification: Trick-or-Treat was always my favorite move of the two, and probably the one with the most potential in singles. However, due to Gourgeist being absent from Gen 9 (most likely won't be back for DLC2, due to how Gourgeist Size conflicts with regular mon size), it wasn't brought back with its grass counterpart. But now it's back, and both it and Forest's Curse are getting a wider distribution on mons that could actually use them! The plan with these moves is to give new weaknesses to your opponent that you or your teammates can exploit. Trick-or-treat pairs well with Ghost and Dark type moves such as Knock Off or Choke, while Forest's Curse pairs well with Bug, Fire, Flying, Ice and Poison moves.

If you line things right, you can even disable a curse sweeper's strategy | go for a x8 Super Effective combo!

Name: Misty Explosion
Power: 150 BP
Accuracy: 100
PP: 5
Category: Special
Type: Fairy
Effect: User explodes and faints, unless in Misty Terrain.
Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Mirror, Protect
Potential Pokémon With This Move: (Current Users - )
Justification: Misty Terrain is real again, we did it boys*
*gender neutral

Items

Name:Uno Reverse Card
Effect: If this item would be knocked off, it isn't and the opponent loses their item instead. Knock Off doesn't get a power boost.
Can Be Knocked Off (Yes or No): No
Ignored by Klutz (Yes or No): Yes
Fling Power & Effect: 60BP, no effect
Justification: Knock Off is literally everywhere, time for some dark type move variety, there's a lot of interesting dark moves out there.

Abilities

Name: Stench
Effect: When the Pokémon makes contact with the opponent or vice-versa, the opponent becomes afflicted with torment
Permanent (Yes or No): No
Mold Breaker (Yes or No): Yes
Potential Pokémon With This Ability: Current Users,
Justification: stinky > flinching. Punishes sweepers that make contact, especially setup and choice ones. Torment is great in giving you breathing room, and lasts until the opponent switches out.

Name: Electric Current | Misty Mirage | Psychic Insight
Effect: On entry, sets Electric | Misty | Psychic Terrain. In respective terrain, Def (Electric) or SpD (Misty/Psychic) is x1.3333.
Permanent (Yes or No): Yes
Mold Breaker/Counteract (Yes or No): Yes/No
Potential Pokémon With This Ability:
(replaces Electric Surge),(replaces Static), , (replaces plus) |
(replaces Misty Surge), (replaces Hydration), (replaces Cute Charm),
| (replaces Psychic Surge), , ,
Justification: Stealing this one from IceLevelIncarnate since it looks like they may not submit this slate, and I really liked the concept. If you want it back or want me to take it down, reach out to me and I'll do so. I swapped a couple potential Pokémon and changed Misty Cover's name to Misty Mirage. Here's their original description:

Grass Pelt Shaymin kits are starting to pop off and actually form terrain cores with their respective Paradoxes, so here's some enablers for the other terrains. They still have ways to go without powerful tools like Grassy Glide, but we need to get actual setters in first before we worry about that.

Not only do I agree with them, I've also been trying to up the terrain game for a while now, and I can't do so unless there is a game to up. Grass Pelt is incredibly good as an ability, setting not only terrain but also giving you a 1.3x boost in defense, and limiting it to only one type of terrain seems kind of unfair. This allows more offensive and defensive play to be made, gives better access to tools like Expanding Force and Surge Surfer, while also shielding yourself from status and priority, and giving some more bulk on mons.

Adjustments

Name:Sinistcha
Type: Grass/Ghost
Abilities: Prankster / Healer / Heatproof
New Moves: Trick-or-Treat, Shadow Sneak, Leech Seed, Powder, Jungle Healing, Round, Parting Shot
Removed Moves:
Justification: Since Gourgeist will not be in gen 9 (likely due to how Size is now implemented, and it being one of Gourgeist's gimmicks), the Halloween move will go to the latest grass ghost, Sinistcha. Prankster ensures Sinistcha will make use of it, as well as the rest of its decent support movepool like Life Dew, Strength Sap, Substitute, etc. Shadow Sneak gives Sinistcha a desperate way to abuse Halloween-specific ghost weaknesses if you're fighting, like, Munkidori I guess (though most of the time you should really just shadow ball). Leech Seed provides healing support for its team against a wall or sweeper, Powder makes up for the lack of Heatproof by trolling Fire (and electric) users really hard, Jungle Healing lets Sinistcha deal with Hazard damage and status, and Round helps setup for the next round pivoter who wants to switch in.
Yeah, I subbed Trick-or-Treat and Powder with the intent of putting them on Sinistcha, but I believe in those two subs by themselves as well as this one.

(this one had a lot of formatting but I don't feel like redoing it rn)

Name:Slaking
Type:Normal / Ghost
Abilities: Battle Armor / Cursed Body (or stench if the sub passes) / Harvest
New Moves: Shadow Sneak, Shadow Punch, Spirit Shackle, Sledgehammer Blow, Heal Bell, Entrainment, Confuse Ray, Court Change, Iron Defense, Destiny Bond, Disable, Forest's Curse, Reflect, Light Screen, Mean Look, Misty Terrain, Night Shade, Parry, Parting Shot, Safeguard, Sand-Attack, Screech, Metal Sound, Shelter, Stockpile, Spit Up, Swallow, Torment, Darkest Lariat
Removed Moves: Blizzard, Earthquake, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Focus Blast, Focus Punch, Giga Impact, Gunk Shot, Hammer Arm, Heavy Slam, High Horsepower, Hyper Beam, Hyper Voice, Ice Beam, Mega Kick, Outrage, Play Rough, Solar Beam, Take Down, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Uproar, Wild Charge, Rage, Bulk Up
Justification: The Slak is Back and more swingin' than ever!... technically speaking. Physically speaking, Slaking has passed from rot and decay from players not using him at all, but this has freed him from his mortal limitations and given him the ghost type! Without Truant, Slaking is known for its monstruous offense (160/95/100) but this sub is built to take advantage of its bulk (150/100/65) and make Slaking a bulky offense/support mon.
I invite you to take a look at its offensive and support potential, but to keep things neat, let's do it inside their respective spoilers.

Offense

You've surely noticed the large amount of removed moves from Slaking. Basically, If it had a move that was higher BP than Body Slam (85BP), it's gone (and no, I didn't forget Double-Edge, Slaking does not get it in Gen 9 for some reason). The good news is that with that attack stat, Slaking doesn't need high BP move to have effective offensive pressure! Its new dual Normal/Ghost typing gives it great STAB neutral coverage, on top of the amount of great coverage moves it already gets! Even at a lower base power, Slaking can still use its moves at a great strength, and an advantage of lower BP moves is their secondary effects. Even on the offense, Slaking still gets some very useful tools! Here's a list of the notable ones for those interested (STAB moves are in bold):

List of Slaking's Notable Offensive Moves

Brick Break (85BP, Fighting, Destroys Screens/Veil)
Body Slam (85BP, Normal, 30% Paralysis chance)
Bulldoze (60BP, Ground, Lowers target's speed by 1)
Crush Claw (75BP, Normal, 50% chance to lower target's defense by 1)
Darkest Lariat (85BP, Dark, Ignores opponent's stat changes)
Drain Punch (75BP, Fighting, drains 50% HP from the target)
Facade (70BP, Normal, Power doubles if burned/poisoned/paralyzed)
Fire Punch (75BP, Fire, 10% chance to burn)
Headbutt (70BP, Normal, 30% flinch chance)
Ice Punch (75BP, Ice, 10% freeze chance)
Knock Off (65BP, Dark, it's Knock Off)
Lash Out (75BP, Dark, x2 power if Slaking's stats are lowered this turn)
Low Sweep (65BP, Fighting, 100% chance to lower target's speed by 1)
Night Shade (Ghost-type Seismic Toss)
Night Slash (70 BP, Dark, High Crit Ratio)
Parry (80BP, Fighting, Goes first and flinches target if it is using a priority move)
Poison Jab (80BP, Poison, 30% poison chance)
Rock Slide (75BP, Rock, 30% flinch chance)
Rock Tomb (60 BP, Rock, Lowers target's speed by 1)
Seed Bomb (80BP, Grass)
Shadow Claw (70BP, Ghost, High Crit Ratio)
Shadow Punch (60BP, Ghost, Bypasses accuracy)
Shadow Sneak (40BP, Ghost, +1 priority)
Slash (70BP, Normal, High Crit Ratio)
Sledgehammer Blow (85BP, Steel, Destroys Screens/Veil)
Spirit Shackle (80BP, Ghost, Prevents target from switching out)
Stomping Tantrum (75BP, Ground, Power Doubles if last move failed to hit)
Sucker Punch (70BP, Dark, +1 priority, fails if target is not attacking)
Throat Chop (85BP, Dark, Target can't use sound moves for 3 turns)
Thunder Punch (75BP, Electric, 10% Paralysis chance)
Trailblaze (50BP, Grass, 100% Chance to raise speed by 1)
X-Scissor (80BP, Bug)
Zen Headbutt (80BP, Psychic, 20% flinch chance)

Slaking has coverage in Bug, Dark, Electric, Fighting, Fire, Grass, Ground, Ice, Poison, Rock and Steel. Its physical capabilities may be flexible, but that's nothing compared to what it can offer defensively!

Defense

While the physical side of Slaking can be alluring to some, Slaking's core strengths should find themselves in its defensive capabilities. Combined with its impressive physical bulk and fantastic defensive typing, Battle Armor give Slaking Crit insurance, Stench/Cursed Body annoys contact attackers, and Harvest allows it to make use of various different type of berries, like Kee and Maranga, or Colbur. Slaking also supports a large amount of tools to support its team or disrupt its opponents:

List of Slaking's Notable Defensive Moves

Amnesia
Body Press
Confuse Ray
Counter
Court Change
Curse (ghost)
Destiny Bond
Disable
Encore
Endure
Entrainment
Forest's Curse
Heal Bell
Iron Defense
Reflect
Light Screen
Mean Look
Metronome (lol)
Misty Terrain
Parting Shot
Protect
Rain Dance
Rest / Sleep Talk
Roar
Safeguard
Screech
Metal Sound
Shelter
Slack Off
Stockpile, Spit Up, Swallow
Substitute
Swagger
Taunt
Thunder Wave
Torment
Yawn

Slaking can be a reliable Ghost Curser, Shelter hazard remover, Cleric, Screener, Phazer, Trapper, Statuser, you name it! HO is really insane in this meta, and Slaking can be a jack-of-all-trades to fit a role on a team to stop potential sweeps from happening.

Overall this Slaking should fit right in with the OU Power Level, able to fulfill a defensive role on a team while still being able to fight back if needed be, but not being too broken.


Name: Gholdengo
Type: Ghost / Steel
Abilities: Wonder Skin
New Moves: none
Removed Moves: none
Justification: Here's my take on the cheestrings situation. Wonder Skin sets the accuracy of all status moves targeting the user to 50%, before other accuracy-changing effects. It's not just Good as Gold half the time, because this doesn't explicitly block all status moves, but still lets you dodge encores, thunder waves, taunts, spores, tricks, switcheroos, soaks, hypnosises, etc., just that now it's a 50% chance instead of a guaranteed block.
As for status moves that bypass accuracy, here is the list of moves that Goldenjoe now becomes unable to block:

After You
Confide
Curse (Ghost-type)
Defog
Guard Split
Guard Swap
Heart Swap
Pain Split
Perish Song
Tearful Look
Roar
Whirlwind
Yawn

If it's not on the above list, Gholdengo has a 50% chance to block the move entirely.

Slate 10

Moves

Name: Topsy-Turvy
Power: -
Accuracy: -
PP: 20 (max 32)
Category: Status
Type: Dark
Effect: Reverses all stat changes on the Pokémon, making positive changes negative and vice-versa. Does not reverse stat changes that are not based on stat stages, like the speed drop from paralysis. Because Topsy-Turvy changes stats rather than raising or lowering them, it is unaffected by effects such as Mist or Abilities such as Simple, Contrary, and Clear Body. It does not activate Defiant or Competitive.
Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Authentic, Mirror, Protect, Reflectable
Potential Pokémon With This Move:
Justification: My favorite move ever comes back with a vengeance! There is no greater feeling than turning someone's maxi-setup into a major L.

Name: Flying Press | Software Crash
Power: 100
Accuracy: 95%
PP: 10 (max 16)
Category: Physical | Special
Type: Fighting | Bug
Effect: Inflicts Fighting or Flying (FP) | Bug or Electric (SC) damage depending on which type would be more effective against the target.
Priority:0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Mirror, Protect, Contact (FP)
Potential Pokémon With This Move: FP: Current Distribution + | SC:
Justification: Finally fixing Flying Press by getting rid of its horrible typing (both flying and fighting at once actually weakens it) and this actually makes it worth running if you wanna save a moveslot or something. Software Crash can help against flying or grass types and gives coverage without sacrificing STAB.

Name: Tag Pulse | Tag Burst
Power: 30 | -
Accuracy: 100 | -
PP: 15 (shared)
Category: Special | Status
Type: Steel
Effect: Upon hitting the enemy, inflicts it with a tag and switches this move to Tag Burst until the user switches out. Tags are removed when the opponent switches out. | Inflicts damage on the opponent equal to (33% of its max HP X its number of tags)
Priority: 0 (both)
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): TP: Mirror, Protect, Pulse | TB: Snatch, Protect, Authentic
Potential Pokémon With This Move:
Justification: Sweeper/Stall Pressure made for pivots. Tag Burst would only do 33% unless you switch out either into another tag pulse user or switch back in, in which case you can apply another tag. The damage ramps up quick, and the move is favored by pivoting

Name: Bananarang
Power: 65
Accuracy: 95%
PP: 10
Category: Physical
Type: Grass
Effect: If it hits the opponent, hits again at the end of the next turn. The 2nd hit bypasses screens and substitute.
Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Mirror, Protect, Bullet
Potential Pokémon With This Move:
Justification: Future Sight-type games that are a bit more direct, and long-awaited banana representation.

Items

Name: Vampire's Curse
Effect: Holder's attacking moves heal them for 50% of damage dealt, but they gain the weaknesses of the dark type. Flavor text upon entry.
Can Be Knocked Off (Yes or No): No
Ignored by Klutz (Yes or No): No
Fling Power & Effect: Cannot be Flung
Justification: What is a mon? A miserable little pile of secrets!

Name: Hot Sauce
Effect: After the holder uses a biting move, raises its attack by 3 and confuses it. Single Use.
Can Be Knocked Off (Yes or No): Yes
Ignored by Klutz (Yes or No): Yes
Fling Power & Effect: 80BP fire type, confuses
Justification: Fell Stinger at home.

Name: Clever Disguise
Effect: Acts like the Imposter ability. Disappears when the holder is damaged by an attack.
Can Be Knocked Off (Yes or No): Yes
Ignored by Klutz (Yes or No): Yes
Fling Power & Effect: 40BP
Justification: Cool scouting item. Not as ideal for revenge killing as scarf ditto because you don't have scarf winning you the speed tie.

Name: Inkay
Effect: When the holder is attacked by an opponent with stat boosts, the stat boosts will be reversed (as if topsy-turvy was used). Single Use, unless the holder is
Can Be Knocked Off (Yes or No): Yes
Ignored by Klutz (Yes or No): No
Fling Power & Effect: 60BP, inverts opponent's stats
Justification: Thinking about how funny it would be to bring in a smaller Pokémon with you as an item.

Abilities

Name: Electric Effervescence | Misty Mirage | Psychic Prowl
Effect: On entry, sets Electric | Misty | Psychic Terrain. In respective terrain, user's Spe(Electric) Acc (Psychic) or SpD (Misty) is x1.3333.
Permanent (Yes or No): Yes
Mold Breaker/Counteract (Yes or No): Yes/No
Potential Pokémon With This Ability:
(replaces Static), , (replaces plus), (replaces run away) |
(replaces Misty Surge), (replaces Hydration), (replaces Cute Charm), (replaces flare boost)
| (replaces Curious Medicine), , , (replaces armor tail),
Justification: Alternate counterparts to Grass Pelt. This one distinguishes itself from Ice's submission by giving each terrain a respective boost. Some of you might notice some oddball users in there, like . counters ground types and enables its Psyblade, checks Valiants and baits a thunderbolt, which can be countered with a ground type or volt absorb, and appreciates the accuracy boost on move like Hurricane/Bleakwind Storm and Focus Blast.
Notice the absence of Psychic Prowl Hypnosis users, which is noted by them not having hypnosis.

Name: Harvest
Effect: At the end of the turn, has a 50% chance to harvest back a berry it has consumed (100% in sunshine). If they have their berry, has a 50% chance to give a party pokémon their digested berry back (100% in sunshine).
Permanent (Yes or No): No
Mold Breaker (Yes or No): No
Potential Pokémon With This Ability: Current users +
Justification: Berry meta becomes more sustainable.

Name: Draconic Golden Age
Effect: User's Dragon-type moves are Super effective against fairy types, and Fairy type moves used against this Pokémon are not very effective. Flavor text upon Entry.
Permanent (Yes or No): Yes
Mold Breaker (Yes or No): No
Potential Pokémon With This Ability: . Dragons who came out before gen 6.
Justification: A dragon countering a fairy? That's how it was back in my day! Can be given to post-fairy dragons if it would be healthier/better for the meta.

Adjustments

Name:Wugtrio
Type: Water
Abilities: Adaptability / Muscle Memory / Outclass
New Moves: Surging Strikes, Jet Punch, Flip Turn
Removed Moves:
Justification: Time to get Wugged.

Metronome

As a way to celebrate the final slate of VaporeMons, I decided to try and rework the move Metronome, but doing so would have taken way too much time that I could have put on other subs, so I retired it. Here it is, in case anyone wants to pick up where I left off.


Name:Metronome
PP: 10 (max 16)
Category: Status
Type: Normal
Effect: The user picks a random move. The move selection has been adjusted, and the selection of moves has been refined. The selected move will bypass accuracy check and have its secondary effect chance doubled. Multi-hit moves are treated as if Loaded Dice was equipped.

Here is the list of applicable moves.

Moves selectable if user's Attack > Sp. Attack
Accelerock
Aqua Step
Belly Drum
Bitter Blade
Body Slam
Ceaseless Edge
Circle Throw
Close Combat
Coil
Collision Course
Crabhammer
Diamond Storm
Dire Claw
Dragon Ascent
Dragon Darts
Dragon Tail
Drain Punch
Dynamic Punch
Stone Axe
Stone Edge
Storm Throw
Fire Lash
Flame Charge
Surging Strikes
Swords Dance
Flip Turn
Shift Gear
Flower Trick
Power Trip
Power Whip
Victory Dance
Precipice Blades
Volt Tackle
Psychic Fangs
Psyshield Bash
Gigaton Hammer
Wave Crash
Glacial Lance
Wicked Blow
Glaive Rush
Wicked Torque
Pyro Ball
Grav Apple
Rage Fist
Raging Fury
Zing Zap
Head Smash
Megahorn
Salt Cure
Horn Leech
Hyper Drill
Mountain Gale
Ice Spinner
Iron Head
Knock Off
Last Respects
Leech Life
Poltergeist
Lunge
Population Bomb
Magical Torque
Gunk Shot
Psyblade
Shrapnel Shot
False Surrender
Choke
Cutting Remark
Hazardous Waste
Throat Chop
Chisel
Peekaboo
Rollout
Brick Break
Sledgehammer Blow
Smack Down
Root Pull
Rock Blast
Pin Missile
Triple Arrows
Spirit Shackle
Sacred Sword

Moves selectable if user's Sp. Attack > Attack
Air Slash
Apple Acid
Armor Cannon
Astral Barrage
Bitter Malice
Bleakwind Storm
Blizzard
Boomburst
Bug Buzz
Clanging Scales
Zap Cannon
Doom Desire
Draco Meteor
Dragon Energy
Spacial Rend
Earth Power
Eerie Spell
Electro Drift
Springtide Storm
Eruption
Esper Wing
Steam Eruption
Expanding Force
Sandsear Storm
Stored Power
Fiery Wrath
Inferno
Seed Flare
Shadow Ball
Flash Cannon
Fleur Cannon
Tail Glow
Focus Blast
Freeze-Dry
Freezing Glare
Sludge Bomb
Acid Spray
Frost Breath
Snarl
Snipe Shot
Thunder Cage
Future Sight
Torch Song
Infernal Parade
Tri Attack
Volt Switch
Psychic
Psycho Boost
Water Spout
Matcha Gotcha
Psystrike
Quiver Dance
Meteor Beam
Night Daze
Moonblast
Hurricane
Mystical Fire
Mystical Power
Origin Pulse
Overheat
Lumina Crash
Power Gem
Magma Storm
Make it Rain
Hydro Steam
Electroweb
Wind Breaker
Round
Wash Away
Echo Chamber
Desert Storm
Hyperspace Hole


Always Eligible
Corrosive Gas
Cosmic Power
Cotton Guard
Court Change
Defog
Disable
Encore
Hypnosis
Stealth Rock
Sticky Web
Seismic Toss
Shell Smash
Taunt
Foul Play
Teleport
Tidy Up
Rapid Spin
Mortal Spin
Spikes
Toxic
Toxic Spikes
Glare
Will-o-Wisp
Wish
Recover
Haze
Reflect
Rest
Revival Blessing
Heal Bell
Ruination
Night Shade
Leech Seed
Light Screen
Parting Shot
Lovely Kiss
Shelter
Healing Stones
Jungle Healing
Life Dew
Rekindle
Rebuild
Latent Venom

Broken Cup Moves that aren't in Gen 9 but could come back with DLC2
Anchor Shot
Aromatherapy
Beak Blast
Blue Flare
Bolt Beak
Bolt Strike
Chatter
Core Enforcer
Double Iron Bash
Dragon Hammer
Searing Shot
Secret Sword
Fishious Rend
Shadow Bone
Sunsteel Strike
Techno Blast
Thousand Arrows
Thousand Waves
Fusion Bolt
Fusion Flare
Spectral Thief
V-Create
Gear Grind
Head Charge
Sacred Fire
Moongeist Beam
Nature's Madness
Oblivion Wing
Octolock
Photon Geyser
Plasma Fists

Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): None
Potential Pokémon With This Move: Current Users, , , starters, , , , , ,
Justification: This is submitted as a celebration of the final slate of Vaporemons: Metronome gets a buff! Took some inspiration for the moves from Broken Cup, which is a randomized format that features "No useless mons, moves, items or abilities" (quoting them), so I thought to pull some moves from there to get started. I then parsed through the list a second time so that only the best possible moves of a type and category with their secondary effects remain (as for setup moves, I picked the best possible options). Finally, I decided to optimize the selection of moves depending on the type of mon, so that you won't pull Collision Course with Indeedee, for example.
A first look at the move list may make some of you think "gee Cat, this move is broken now!". Not at all. This is metronome we're talking about. You could get blessed by the RNG as much as you may not be, but at least now, you should be guaranteed to get something beneficial...

...or at least I'd like to say so. As much as I hate to say it, this submission STILL isn't done being written up. I'd need to take a look with preferably some council members to see if there are certain moves that could go or be added, as I am only one guy and I can easily miss things. Until then, this is where I'm at now!

(I think the next phase I was considering was probably to use a move from the "always available" category if the user's def/spdef was higher than its attacking stats, and to use the other respective categories if the reverse was true instead.)

​

​

 

[Yoshiblaze]

Hello!

I have some big news on those resources we promised you, getting right to the point, we have created a Preliminary Viability Rankings for VaporeMons!

But what do I mean by preliminary? Well, the make this viability ranking, I asked 3 of the most qualified VaporeMons players (being Beaf Cultist, HydreigonTheChild, and zxgzxg) to create their own Viability Rankings and send them to me. Then, I took the average of each Pokemon's ranking (based on tier, not ordered placement) and placed in into the closest tier, rounding up. As you could imagine with a sample size of just 3, there will be some oddities and outliers. That's why this is just a preliminary VR and that's where you come in! For the next couple days, you can make VR Nominations, much like you would in any regular tier's viability ranking thread, for where you believe a Pokemon should be on the VR. Then, the council will vote on these nominations, which will then give us our official viability rankings.

So, without further adieu, here are the Preliminary Viability Rankings for VaporeMons:

(This ranking is ordered to show how the averages panned out, but the official VR won't be ordered within tiers)
S:
S-:
A+:
A:
A-:
B+:
B:
B-:
C+:
C:
C-:

UR due to only being ranked only 1/3 submissions (where they were ranked on that one ranking is listed in parentheses):* (B-)(B-)(C+)* (C+)(C+)(C+)(C)* (C)(C)(C)* (C)(C-)* (C-)(C-)(C-)(C-)(C-)

D: *(all)****
* = Mons that will be put in D-Rank if they stay unranked but were listed by 1 ranker
D Rank represents Pokémon that had Adjustment subs voted in for them or a voted-in signature item, but are still unviable. The rank exists to tell you that they are unviable but to also make you aware that they have been significantly altered so you aren't caught off guard.

As for how to make VR nominations, while the standard of your nominations doesn't have to be as high as the OU VR thread or something, you still should post intelligently. This means:
- When nomming a Pokemon, you should give specific reasons as to why you think it should be ranked in a certain spot with support.
- Your noms don't have to be super long or anything, just a couple sentences can work, but they need to have some intelligent thought put into them if you want to convince the council to make the changes you want.
- If you're able to, providing replays of the Pokemon in action is recommended, especially if the Pokemon you're nominating is unranked or D-Rank currently.

VR Nominations will be open for a couple days. See you then!

 

[Beaf Cultist]

Might add more to this later depending on how things shake out, but for now here's my nominations.

Rises:

A to A+: Extremely powerful offensive tool and one of only two mons with the single most consistent hazard control move in the tier. Blaze Cinderace is practically impossible to wall without a bulky Fire resist or a PhysDef Great Tusk, and it can easily make progress into both of those by either clicking Court Change or pivoting around them. Swords Dance sets are rather strong as well, though they have to choose between High Jump Kick for Heatran, Gunk Shot for Milotic, and Sucker Punch for scarfers and Dragapult. Easily one of the most consistently good mons in the tier, and definitely deserves an A+ ranking.

B+ to A-: Extremely consistent defensive Water, and easily the best SpDef Water in the tier. Singlehandedly invalidates a ton of offensive mons (Walking Wake, Roaring Moon, Cinderace without Gunk Shot, Zamazenta without Wild Charge) on its own while pivoting around the Electrics and Poisons that threaten it.

B to B+: Pretty solid Choice Band mon, with Poison Touch U-Turn to spread Poison to the Great Tusks and Slowbros that try to wall it earlygame, and strong banded CC to clean up lategame. Struggles into Poisons and Gholdengo, but that's what teammates are for!

UR to C: Solid revenge killer and cleaner, though it struggles quite a bit into common defensive mons. Absolutely terrifies any opponent running a defogger or Lando-T. Will try to get replays but everyone is running fat balance rn for some reason.

Drops:

A to B+: This mon probably has the greatest difference in opinions between experienced players and the general playerbase. Personally, I think it kinda sucks. It can never beat Corviknight, Crabominable, and Milotic (particularly Corv, as without running Fire Fang specifically for it, Moon is basically a dead slot in any game where the opponent has the bird), and it struggles into tons of other team structures even without them due to its mediocre STAB combination and overreliance on more coverage than it can fit on one set. It's certainly scary on Snow teams, particularly against foes who don't have the aforementioned defensive mons, but especially after the Light Clay ban I just don't see this mon as anywhere near as consistent as any of the other guys in A.

B+ to B: Heatran is just a bit too slow for the current offense-heavy meta. Defensive sets have some relevant matchups among the top tiers, such as walling Iron Moth and non-Focus Blast Magearna, but the vast majority of offensive mons threaten it out, not to mention its old key target Volcarona being quite terrible this gen. Offensive Heatran, on the other hand, is even worse. Folks were hyping up Binding Band when it originally dropped, but over time it's become clear that this item is fishy and often inferior to Leftovers or Air Balloon, since most mons get 2-shot by Magma Storm anyway and pretty much the only relevant matchup for it is stall, which Heatran already beats without the Band. Overall, this placement definitely seems too high to me, and I feel like B would better reflect its niche.

B to B-: A certain someone on the VR team drastically overrated this mon. As a spinner, there's very little reason to run it over Great Tusk. The extra speed is barely relevant, it gets hard walled by Magnezone, and it can't spin on Gliscor thanks to its Ground weakness. As a defensive mon, Momentum is certainly good, but Steel isn't a particularly good defensive typing in this meta, and other defensive Steels (namely Corviknight, Magnezone, and Magearna) cover pretty much every niche it could hope to have. If I could I'd suggest for this mon to be dropped even lower.

Taking this one back because upon further testing the mon kinda cooks, so I'll just make this a PSA: RUN OFFENSIVE VOLC. BULKY IS SHIT.

B to B-: This mon is pretty dog. I've used it a good bit and it feels like pretty much the only thing it can do is switch into a Great Tusk or Ogerpon with Rocky Helmet, take 45%, then spam Moonlight until they give up and switch out. Mon's bulk and resistances are just really unimpressive in the current meta, especially since pretty much every mon that gets walled by Fairies is running coverage for them (besides like, Iron Hands and Crabominable). The utility it offers is like, alright, but I don't see why I wouldn't just run a Galarian Slowking or Milotic.

B to B-: Mon just ain't that good lol

B- to C: I've never seen this mon used outside of Sun since the slate Death Aura was added, and as the premier Hyphlosion Sun user, I don't think it's very good. Scarf Eruption is super threatening, for sure, but its Stealth Rock weakness and minimal bulk makes it difficult to truly make progress with Hyph without great positioning and team support, especially outside of Sun, where I don't see it having any niche whatsoever. Even on Sun, there are other offensive Fires like Cinderace and Iron Moth, who are equally if not more threatening, so overall while this mon definitely has a place on Sun, I don't feel like it's a defining piece of the playstyle nor is it as consistent as B- implies.

C+ to UR: This mon is absolutely awful in the current meta. With the litany of new removal options compared to OU, hazard stack offense would much prefer a setter who can stick around long-term to a mon that sets rocks then dies. This is especially true considering how this mon hard loses to Gliscor in the lead matchup, being completely incapable of touching it and therefore letting it set up 3 Spikes for free. Some folks might assume that offensive Glimmora sets have potential thanks to its new access to Meteor Beam, but they don't. This mon is far too slow and its coverage is far too mediocre to pull off anything of the sort, and offensive Glimm ends up being deadweight in most matchups. If you want a Meteor Beam mon, run Sandy Shocks.

C to C-: I don't know what the other VR folks knew that I didn't considering I'm the only person I've ever seen running this mon, but Bonnet is an extremely niche Rain abuser, sacrificing the usual role of defensive Grass for another offensive mon that packs Spore and Sucker Punch. It's not bad, but implying that it's even somewhat consistent on Rain is crazy, as the mon is simply deadweight into many matchups outside of Spore, and I feel like C- reflects that better.

I also wanna take this time to mention a little quirk of the methods Yoshi used to combine the lists. With how he weighted mons, UR rankings were basically considered as non-votes, meaning mons that got ranked UR by one person had only two opinions being shown in the final ranking (and in a few cases, mons who were ranked very highly by one person but forgotten by others ended up UR despite still landing on the VR if UR votes were assigned a value.) I'd be curious to hear yall's thoughts on adjusting the ranks of these mons to account for UR votes, so please do share them (full list is spoilered below this).

UR Vote Shifts

Changes if UR votes were counted:
B -> C+
B -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
UR (B-) -> C
UR (B-) -> C
UR (C+) -> C-
UR (C+) -> C-
UR (C+) -> C-
UR (C+) -> C-
C- -> UR
C- -> UR
C- -> UR

 

[Yoshiblaze]

Keeping VR noms open for less than 24 more hours!

Don't have much to nom myself, but "not much" is still greater than zero

UR to C - Already going to be voted on as part of the above adjusted rankings with UR votes counted, but I figured I'd bump it up from C- to C. With Sneasler no longer having Unburden, Hawlucha naturally rises up to kinda takes its place. It being WAY weaker really holds it down and that + not having vanilla Dire Claw hax keeps it from being nearly as effective as a sweeper as Sneasler is in OU, plus a bunch of pretty bad top tier matchups like Slowbro, Gholdengo, Zapdos, and Corviknight, but the fact of the matter is that it's still the same old Hawlucha of old. A bit of careful positioning and chip on everything just let's it end games as easily as it's always been able to. Definitely the hardest it's been since Terrain seeds became a thing, so only going up to C seems fair

UR to C- - Funny mon with the Tera Shard buff. Still walled into oblivion by most Ground-types, particularly Gliscor which it can never ever beat, but with Tera Shard both giving it more than a Life Orb boost on Electric moves and a boost to Tera Blast, Eleki is able to get all the power of Life Orb without any of the consequences, making it just a bit harder to deal with if you're not careful and forcing you to respect it just that much more. Only going up to C- though, due to being deadweight against any with Gliscor, some special walls like SpD Glowking or AV Magnezone still being able to check effectively, and competing with Jolteon as a super fast Electric pivot

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

-> B+ Why? Well throughout the meta it has been powercrept while recieving 0 chnages. Not only are corv, crab, tauros-blaze, phys def gliscor, zama, hippo, pex, tera water garg annoying asf to deal with. You also have to deal with a very good speed control option just not giving a shit about it since it is immune to priority (lovely). Its def not as good esp with no tera to bypass and being stone walled by some very good pokemon. dropping smth for coverage just isnt good for it and makes it worse against everything else.

-> B It is a very good wall esp with overcoat and ur item of choice. With a phys. def set it can screw with things like SD ogerpon, Cinderace, great tusk, RM, dragonite, DD Pult, etc With helmet it can be very good into physical attackers and pivot moves. A sp. def set can help take on dragaplut and gholdengo much better while still having phys bulk to take on unboosted physical attackers. With a great movepool to boot it can provide a lot to a team.

-> B it is a good revenge killer and an SD user.... while it does struggle into some horrid MU's it is still weavile and can use natural gift electric to hit corv + waters or fire to hit corv + steels like gambit and other stuff.

-> A+ Idt these mons are much better than A+ if at all... S- shouldnt really exist esp since these pokemon arent out of the league of A+

-> B+ Competing with jolteon is super super rough and idt its worth to put on a team where jolteon 130 speed isnt gonna be doing stuff on a game to game basis

super overated and isnt as good. So this nom is to B. While still good on rain and on HO its just... there are more options to use over it. I havent even seen it do as much and even on rain you have other options. Sun itself isnt that good because its shit def

 

[Yoshiblaze]

Council has now voted on the VR noms, with the following changes to the VR occurring!

A -> A+
B+ -> A-
UR -> C
A- -> B+
B+ -> B (drops to UU)
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B- -> C
C -> C-
B -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
D -> C
UR -> C-
UR -> C
C- -> D
B -> B+ (leaves UU)
C+ -> UR
B -> B-
B- -> B

And now to make the VR immediately outdated! This is a quick announcement that council will have a quickban vote on Gliscor! Gliscor was recently banned in OU for mostly non-Tera-related reasons, so, much like we did with Ursaluna-Bloodmoon as part of that big Slate 9 Balance Patch, that already makes it worth looking at. Even without that, however, if you've played VaporeMons recently, you'd know that Gliscor is very much worth looking at. Despite the addition of multiple other forms of hazard control like Shelter and Wash Away that should theoretically limit Gliscor's oppressive hazard stacking ability, Gliscor's simple combination of Poison Heal + Toxic + Protect + Spikes + EQ still allows it to easily beat any form of hazard control that's not Magnezone or Corviknight, both of which can't do much about Gliscor's #1 partner in crime in Gholdengo, and letting it set up 3 layers of Spikes that the opponent just has to deal with. So while it's definitely less broken than in OU, it's still broken enough for us to hold a vote on it, the results of which we'll post soon.

Also, in terms of resources for VaporeMons, I plan on releasing a Role Compendium for the tier next, so look out for that!

That's all for now, see you soon!

 

[Yoshiblaze]

The results of the Gliscor vote are in!

With 3/3 votes from council, Gliscor is now banned from VaporeMons! You can see reasoning on the above post, as well as this post, but in short, it's still just way too good at setting hazards and beating hazard removers, despite many more options of the latter existing, to be healthy for the tier.

Additonally, council also voted on another hot topic, being Tera Shard. The buffs it received in Slate 9 have been a bit controversial, namely the boost to changing into a type you already have and the boosting of <60 BP moves of the Tera Shard Type to 60 BP, both due to 1 particular abuser. For the latter, it's the admittedly hilarious but also pretty toxic Mud Wash Tera Ground Mud-Slap Vaporeon, who gets to have a 120 BP STAB move that drops accuracy. While not a particularly viable set, it's pretty annoying to play against as you'd imagine. Meanwhile, the bigger problem has shown to be the same type Tera Shard boost on Outclass Iron Valiant Tera Fairy Moonblast is quite hard to switch into, especially since Outclass means that any primary Steel, Fire, or Poison types can't stay in for more than 1 turn, meaning that you need at least 2 bulky Fairy resists to properly take it on, compounded by Iron Valiant's wide and powerful coverage, even with Fighting moves not having a STAB boost anymore. With another unanimous 3/3 vote, both power boosting effects of Tera Shard will be removed, being the same type Tera boost and the <60 BP move boost.

That's all for now, I'll be coming out with that Role Compendium soon. See you then!

 

[Mintly]

 

[Yoshiblaze]

Back with that Role Compendium I promised!
If you think I missed anything or disagree with some of the placements, then just let me know!

GEN 9 VAPOREMONS OU ROLE COMPENDIUM​

Every Pokémon listed is C- Rank or higher on the VR + a select few others, separated by a |
Last Updated: 11/23/22

Utility
Hazards
Stealth Rock / Stone Axe:|
Spikes / Ceaseless Edge:|
Toxic Spikes / Dire Claw / Toxic Debris:|
Healing Stones:|
Sticky Web / Electroweb:|

Suicide Leads:|

Hazard Control
Rapid Spin:|
Defog:|
Wash Away:|
Tidy Up:|
Shelter (only removes Rocks and Spikes):|
Court Change:|
Magic Bounce:

Hazard Removal Prevention (aside from just being a Ghost-type):|

Trapping
Magnet Pull:
Sand Spit:|
Trapping Moves:

Offensive Roles
Physical Wallbreakers:|
Special Wallbreakers:|
Mixed Wallbreakers:

Stallbreakers:

Choice Item Users
Choice Band:|
Choice Specs:|
Choice Scarf:|

Setup Sweepers
Swords Dance:|
Nasty Plot:|
Bulk Up:
Calm Mind / Take Heart:|
Dragon Dance / Tidy Up:|
Belly Drum:|
Quiver Dance:|
Scale Shot:
Meteor Beam:|
Iron Defense:
Other:(Fiery Dance)(Agility):(Dragon Rage)(Battle Bond)(Curse)(Torch Song) |(Victory Dance)(Contrary)(Shift Gear)(Curse)(Shell Smash)

Priority
Chain Lightning:|
Sucker Punch:
Cutting Remark:|
Extreme Speed:
Ice Shard:
Accelerock:|
Vacuum Wave:
Aqua Jet:|
Jet Punch:
Other:(Water Shuriken)(Bullet Punch)(Shadow Sneak)(Grassy Glide)(First Impression)(Gale Wings)

Pivoting
U-Turn:|
Volt Switch:|
Flip Turn:|
Rollout:|
Round:|
Parting Shot:|
Chilly Reception:|
Teleport:
Eject Button:

Defensive Pivots
Physical Walls:|
Special Walls:|
Mixed Walls:|

Clerics
Wish:|
Healing Stones:|
Healing Wish / Lunar Dance:|
Heal Bell:
Healer:

Uses an instant recovery move:|

Field Effects
Rain
Drizzle:
Swift Swim:|
Protosmosis:
Other::

Sun
Drought:|
Chlorophyll:|
Protosynthesis:
Other:

Sandstorm
Sand Stream:
Sand Rush:|
Protocrysalis:
Other:|

Snow
Snow Warning:
Chilly Reception:|
Slush Rush:|
Protostasis:
Other:|

Grassy Terrain
Grassy Surge / Grass Pelt:|
Photon Drive:
Other:

Psychic Terrain
Psychic Surge:
Neuron Drive:
Other:|

Misty Terrain
Misty Surge:|
Rune Drive:

Trick Room
Setters:
Abusers:

Tera Shard & Signature Item Users
Viable Tera Shard Users:
New Signature Item Users:|