-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Project USUM UU Research Week v3 | Week 5 - Lanturn, Weezing, and Choice Specs Lucario
- Thread starter Sickist
- Start date
USRW4 TouchMyGatr and USRW4 TouchMyMuk
I'll probably mess around with Gatr
I'll probably mess around with Gatr
Last edited:
USRW4 OS Just hoopa because I suck at building two teams. Plus time.
You can only sign up with one account, so please pick one for this week
USRW4 Ringout
Taking Hoops and Muk
Taking Hoops and Muk
Yet another week of bad performances came to stay, so I gave up and decided to post my thoughts here.
Feraligatr
Sheer Force is the first thing jumping out when one sees Feraligatr, and it has just the right coverage moves to abuse it: Liquidation, Ice Punch, and Crunch. This, in conjunction with a Life Orb and Feraligatr's not-too-shabby 105 base attack (it may seem not too good at first, but note that Infernape's offenses are 1 point lower in both attacks and 3 points higher in speed), can help Feraligatr sweep teams, most notably with a Dragon Dance set. At +1, Jolly Feraligatr reaches 420 Speed, which is outspeeding Terrakion, all Mega Altaria, all Latias not Scarfed, all Infernape not Scarfed, Cobalion, etc. So Dragon Dance can help Feraligatr get the jump on several notable Pokemon. However, 1 Dragon Dance is not enough to outspeed Mega Manectric, Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill (boy are they fast), scarf Latias and scarf Hydreigon, all of which are quite prevalent, and Feraligatr doesn't have the best defenses in the world, so they'll be taking a hard hit from all of them. Also, Feraligatr isn't the most powerful Pokemon by itself, and thus other Water-types and physically offensive mons are more preferred: Primarina and Starmie have higher offenses, as well as Crawdaunt, which also has Dragon Dance, however, Crawdaunt lacks the speed Feraligatr has, but it has a stronger Aqua Jet to make up for it. However, if Feraligatr is allowed to Dragon Dance, then it can mess teams up, such as in these replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-949582885 (Feraligatr performs a clean sweep)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-949584688 (Feraligatr breaks enough to get my opponent to forfeit, however, this also shows that Feraligatr has to be wary of status)
Another popular option seems to be Agility. Agility doubles Feraligatr's speed, which means it's outspeeding the entire metagame. However, this doesn't allow Feraligatr the option to boost its Attack stat (note that Double Dance sets aren't recommended because they take away from Feraligatr's coverage), which makes it quite weaker, as seen here:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-951405930
However, it can help clean teams if they are worn down heavily:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-951409469 (Blissey was definitely going down at this point, so my opponent forfeited)
Other options include Swords Dance, which can be useful in conjunction with Sticky Web support to get more oomph in power, but note that Hydreigon, Mega Aerodactyl, and Latias are immune to Sticky Web and can hit hard. Swords Dance may also have to run Aqua Jet, forfeiting either Ice Punch or Crunch, which isn't desirable. Special Feraligatr sets seem interesting, but it doesn't have a whole lot of Sheer Force-boosted moves (literally the only one I can think are Scald and Ice Beam) to use, also it's outclassed by Primarina and Starmie.
Obviously, it is clear from my replays that Feraligatr does need support, like most sweepers. Spikes support is especially appreciated, as well as wallbreakers if Feraligatr is running Agility. Also, Feraligatr needs to beware of status--burn is halving its Attack, which makes it weaker, paralysis cuts its Speed in half and can render it immobile, and (toxic) poison puts it on a timer. Screens support is especially popular because that allows Feraligatr to set up easier. I chose Xatu because Magic Bounce allowed it to reflect status moves as well as Defog, which results in my screens staying up instead of being cleared out. Also, Xatu has access to U-turn to allow my other mons to get in.
tl;dr: Feraligatr can make for a great sweeper if given the proper support and opportunities. However, it is clearly not the best, and you may want to consider other options before Feraligatr.
Hoopa
I couldn't get much out of Hoopa, sadly, so I will use some knowledge and judgment for this one. To make matters worse, the two battles where Hoopa had some degree of use I both lost, so...yeah that was terrible!
Hoopa's 150 base Special Attack immediately jumps out when you see it. It is also the only Pokemon allowed in the standard metagame with the Psychic/Ghost typing, which is really good offensively, however, it is really bad defensively, because it makes Hoopa 4x to Ghost (it, Lunala and Necrozma-DW are the only Pokemon 4x to their own type), and to Dark, which means it doesn't appreciate the prominence of Knock Off, Pursuit, Krookodile, Hydreigon and more. Not to mention it has a bad base Speed of 70 and a horrible base 60 Defense. It does have access to Nasty Plot so that it can attempt to wallbreak and sweep, and it can use Substitute as well to help try and ease that, but with its speed and defenses, trying to pull a sweep off is not going to be easy. But if it's allowed the chance, then Fightinium Z allows it to break through things like Blissey and the now not-super-common Alolan Muk. But such a chance is not easy to acquire, and thus Hoopa is outclassed by Gengar as a specially offensive Ghost-type due to Gengar's better movepool and speed. Also, other Psychic types give it a lot of competition, for example, Starmie and Latias are both faster and have better utility. Here's my one battle I saved featuring Hoopa:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-951400875 (I try to pull a sweep off but Hoopa is stopped by....Twinkle Tackle Primarina.)
Sticky Web can help Hoopa outspeed some threats but do note that Bisharp benefits from Sticky Web and easily wins the 1v1 vs. Hoopa. Hoopa can run Taunt, but it'd rather have the safety provided by Substitute because that also protects it from damage (until it wears off, obviously).
tl;dr: Had I invested more time, I could've found better use for Hoopa (and Feraligatr too), but Hoopa is outclassed anyways--that bad speed really hurts it, but it can make for a fine Nasty Plot wallbreaker/sweeper.
Feraligatr
Sheer Force is the first thing jumping out when one sees Feraligatr, and it has just the right coverage moves to abuse it: Liquidation, Ice Punch, and Crunch. This, in conjunction with a Life Orb and Feraligatr's not-too-shabby 105 base attack (it may seem not too good at first, but note that Infernape's offenses are 1 point lower in both attacks and 3 points higher in speed), can help Feraligatr sweep teams, most notably with a Dragon Dance set. At +1, Jolly Feraligatr reaches 420 Speed, which is outspeeding Terrakion, all Mega Altaria, all Latias not Scarfed, all Infernape not Scarfed, Cobalion, etc. So Dragon Dance can help Feraligatr get the jump on several notable Pokemon. However, 1 Dragon Dance is not enough to outspeed Mega Manectric, Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill (boy are they fast), scarf Latias and scarf Hydreigon, all of which are quite prevalent, and Feraligatr doesn't have the best defenses in the world, so they'll be taking a hard hit from all of them. Also, Feraligatr isn't the most powerful Pokemon by itself, and thus other Water-types and physically offensive mons are more preferred: Primarina and Starmie have higher offenses, as well as Crawdaunt, which also has Dragon Dance, however, Crawdaunt lacks the speed Feraligatr has, but it has a stronger Aqua Jet to make up for it. However, if Feraligatr is allowed to Dragon Dance, then it can mess teams up, such as in these replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-949582885 (Feraligatr performs a clean sweep)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-949584688 (Feraligatr breaks enough to get my opponent to forfeit, however, this also shows that Feraligatr has to be wary of status)
Another popular option seems to be Agility. Agility doubles Feraligatr's speed, which means it's outspeeding the entire metagame. However, this doesn't allow Feraligatr the option to boost its Attack stat (note that Double Dance sets aren't recommended because they take away from Feraligatr's coverage), which makes it quite weaker, as seen here:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-951405930
However, it can help clean teams if they are worn down heavily:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-951409469 (Blissey was definitely going down at this point, so my opponent forfeited)
Other options include Swords Dance, which can be useful in conjunction with Sticky Web support to get more oomph in power, but note that Hydreigon, Mega Aerodactyl, and Latias are immune to Sticky Web and can hit hard. Swords Dance may also have to run Aqua Jet, forfeiting either Ice Punch or Crunch, which isn't desirable. Special Feraligatr sets seem interesting, but it doesn't have a whole lot of Sheer Force-boosted moves (literally the only one I can think are Scald and Ice Beam) to use, also it's outclassed by Primarina and Starmie.
Obviously, it is clear from my replays that Feraligatr does need support, like most sweepers. Spikes support is especially appreciated, as well as wallbreakers if Feraligatr is running Agility. Also, Feraligatr needs to beware of status--burn is halving its Attack, which makes it weaker, paralysis cuts its Speed in half and can render it immobile, and (toxic) poison puts it on a timer. Screens support is especially popular because that allows Feraligatr to set up easier. I chose Xatu because Magic Bounce allowed it to reflect status moves as well as Defog, which results in my screens staying up instead of being cleared out. Also, Xatu has access to U-turn to allow my other mons to get in.
tl;dr: Feraligatr can make for a great sweeper if given the proper support and opportunities. However, it is clearly not the best, and you may want to consider other options before Feraligatr.
Hoopa
I couldn't get much out of Hoopa, sadly, so I will use some knowledge and judgment for this one. To make matters worse, the two battles where Hoopa had some degree of use I both lost, so...yeah that was terrible!
Hoopa's 150 base Special Attack immediately jumps out when you see it. It is also the only Pokemon allowed in the standard metagame with the Psychic/Ghost typing, which is really good offensively, however, it is really bad defensively, because it makes Hoopa 4x to Ghost (it, Lunala and Necrozma-DW are the only Pokemon 4x to their own type), and to Dark, which means it doesn't appreciate the prominence of Knock Off, Pursuit, Krookodile, Hydreigon and more. Not to mention it has a bad base Speed of 70 and a horrible base 60 Defense. It does have access to Nasty Plot so that it can attempt to wallbreak and sweep, and it can use Substitute as well to help try and ease that, but with its speed and defenses, trying to pull a sweep off is not going to be easy. But if it's allowed the chance, then Fightinium Z allows it to break through things like Blissey and the now not-super-common Alolan Muk. But such a chance is not easy to acquire, and thus Hoopa is outclassed by Gengar as a specially offensive Ghost-type due to Gengar's better movepool and speed. Also, other Psychic types give it a lot of competition, for example, Starmie and Latias are both faster and have better utility. Here's my one battle I saved featuring Hoopa:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-951400875 (I try to pull a sweep off but Hoopa is stopped by....Twinkle Tackle Primarina.)
Sticky Web can help Hoopa outspeed some threats but do note that Bisharp benefits from Sticky Web and easily wins the 1v1 vs. Hoopa. Hoopa can run Taunt, but it'd rather have the safety provided by Substitute because that also protects it from damage (until it wears off, obviously).
tl;dr: Had I invested more time, I could've found better use for Hoopa (and Feraligatr too), but Hoopa is outclassed anyways--that bad speed really hurts it, but it can make for a fine Nasty Plot wallbreaker/sweeper.
I think I got a feel for Feraligatr best out of the three mons this week, so I'll focus on it. It's a pretty straightforward mon and behaves like every other setup sweeper: get rid of or weaken its checks and counters, press boosting move, do damage. Gatr is blessed with fantastic type coverage and the Sheer Force ability to augment it. It's a great cleaner, as its physical bulk lets it stomach a hit if needed in order to get a Dragon Dance.
It feels like the main problem with Feraligatr is that it really only has that cleaner role. Without a DD, it doesn't hit hard enough or move fast enough to wall break. Its merely decent defensive stats means it can take a neutral hit, but that's about all. You could run Screens to alleviate this, but I thought I'd try a more balanced team this week to see if the croc could viably go without (it can!).
Don't sleep on Feraligatr. It's terrifying after a boost, and there are lots of ways to make sure it gets one.
In other news: Hoopa hits like a truck with a NP and that 130 SpDef means it can Sub on passive stuff like Mola and Amoonguss for days but it's real slow and real frail. Using it on a VoltTurn team helped it get switch ins though. A-Muk is kinda meh.
congrats to faded (iirc) who got like 1600 ELO on day two or something lol
Kinda forgot to use Hoopa so I'll let others talk about it.
Feraligatr
It was okay. I won't bother talking about it in screens, everyone knows by now how good feraligatr is at abusing screens thanks to its good typing defensively and its okay bulk that becomes excellent with screens support. Setup sets are honestly pretty strong as long as you give it some sort of support - not just screens, but luring some of its checks like Suicune or Amoonguss, or adding Spikes support to wear its various checks down. This kind of support is much more important outside of screens, as many teams will either have a hard check to Feraligatr (Amoonguss, Suicune, Alomomola, Empoleon or Chesnaught for examples) or a faster scarfer + priority to pick it off (Krook + Lucario/Infernape for example). I think however that Feraligatr has a hard time fitting in more "standard" teams simply because it struggles to distinguish itself from the many offensive Water-types we have running around (Crawdaunt, Primarina, Blastoise-Mega, Volcanion) that all have very defined niches in this metagame, and screens is pretty much the only archetype in which Feraligatr can shine.
Alolan Muk
Honestly I thought it would be garbage (haha puns) at first, but it was actually decent. The most obvious reason for that is how good it is at Pursuit trapping absolutely all Psychic-types in the metagame, since these pokémon use less and less moves that can really threaten Muk, like Celebi dropping Tectonic Rage in favor of Shattered Psyche, or Latias running Gigavolt Havoc much more often than before. Even in matches where pokémon it's supposed to trap aren't there, Muk is able to put in work by checking/trapping other special attackers that can't do much to it, like Nihilego, defensive Primarina, Sceptile-Mega, Moltres, Manectric-Mega. Hell, AV muk is even able to trade against Nidoking since Earth Power isn't a OHKO. Also Knock Off is still a great move to have, and Knocking items off the likes of Hippowdon and Gligar can seriously help your team deal with these mons. Poison Touch is also ridiculously good when it decides to proc, as poison chip can seriously ruin many pokémon, and making Muk not deadweight against stall as it can easily spread status and chip away at their health to help its teammates. Finally, while Muk struggles a lot with the many fighting- and steel- types running around (except NP Nape cause that shit just dies to Gunk Shot), it can slightly circumvent that thanks to Fire Punch/Focus Punch which deal pretty solid damage to these mons. Focus Punch is obviously prediction-reliant, but being able to OHKO an unwary Terrakion is priceless.
tl;dr
Feraligatr
Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Crunch
- Ice Punch
- Dragon Dance
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Crunch
- Ice Punch
- Dragon Dance
Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance / Agility
- Liquidation
- Ice Punch
- Crunch
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance / Agility
- Liquidation
- Ice Punch
- Crunch
Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Liquidation
- Ice Punch / Crunch / Body Slam
- Agility
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Liquidation
- Ice Punch / Crunch / Body Slam
- Agility
Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Crunch
- Ice Punch
- Aqua Jet / Substitute / Superpower
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Crunch
- Ice Punch
- Aqua Jet / Substitute / Superpower
- Dragon Dance I would say is the most consistent set of all, as it compresses all of speed boosting, coverage, and attack boosting in the same set, but the fact that it can usually only get to +1 attack before a hard check/counter comes in makes it hard to break teams with it. Also, if it doesn't go for a Jolly nature it is still slower than many offensive threats like Manectric-Mega, Zeraora, Pidgeot-Mega or Aerodactyl-Mega that can either kill it or pick it off once it's weakened.
- Agility and Swords Dance make either the offense or the balance MU easier for Feraligatr, as nothing outspeeds it once at +2, and not a lot can take its hits at +2. However, you either have to use only one of these boosting moves and risk being much less useful depending on what you didn't choose (Swords Dance is pretty much deadweight against Hyper Offense, while Agility doesn't do much against defensive teams), and Double Dance set has coverage issues (Liquidation + Ice Punch leaves you walled by all Water-types, Liquidation + Crunch leaves you walled by Amoonguss and Chesnaught ... pretty much any combination possible is walled by a common pokémon).
- All-out Attacker Feraligatr has a fourth slot freed up, allowing it to run various moves like Aqua Jet to pick off various faster mons or Superpower to lure Empoleon, but it is the set that struggles the most to differentiate itself from the other offensive waters, as they either are stronger (Crawdaunt, Primarina), faster (Starmie) or have better defensive utility through bulk (Blastoise-Mega) or typing (Primarina, Volcanion). It can work as an awkward middle-ground, but it's hard to not wish you had one of the other waters when using that Feraligatr set.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-951293470 - 4Atks Feraligatr making use of its coverage to kill both Empoleon and Altaria-Mega
Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Gunk Shot
- Focus Punch / Fire Punch / Shadow Sneak
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Gunk Shot
- Focus Punch / Fire Punch / Shadow Sneak
Muk-Alola @ Choice Band
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch / Focus Punch
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch / Focus Punch
- Assault Vest still is the most consistent set, as it can eat any special hit with ease and retaliate for solid damage against almost everything, but being neutral to Stealth Rock + being affected by Spikes + not blocking Volt Switch means it can get worn down pretty quickly if you just send it recklessly whenever a special attacker appears.
- Choice Band has a harder time trapping Latias because +1 Devastating Drake is a guaranteed OHKO, but the additional power helps at chipping mons that aren't weak to Pursuit, and unlike the AV set it can afford to run enough speed to creep bulky Scizor, which is pretty useful since Fire Punch is a guaranteed OHKO. Also CB Focus Punch is powerful enough to OHKO Cobalion and 2HKO the mega steels, which can be interesting in some scenarii.
- Didn't mention it in the sets I used, but Curse AloMuk deserves a mention because of how unreliable and uneffective it is, since it basically relies on your opponent not having a phazer, a Knock Off user, a Specially-attacking wallbreaker or a SD user (or them being dead) to even hope of doing anything.
- Feraligatr really shines by using its setup sets, and it's really a force to be reckoned with in screens HO. It's a bit harder to pull a sweep off with it in other archetypes, but it can still work. If it doesn't use setup moves, you might as well use another water-type breaker.
- Pursuit and Knock Off are still broken moves, so Muk-alola is still okay. It obviously has issues you have to adress in the teambuilder, but I think it's worth using even with these flaws.
For this week I used Feraligatr and Hoopa, and peaked on ladder around 1670. There are some thoughts I would like to share based on my experiences.
Feraligatr
I didn't have time to make my own gator team, so I took the cheap way and just used that screens team up until I got to like 1500 elo. As a ton of people have already said, feraligatr is really good on this kind of playstyle. Got a ton of sweeps with it, especially cause it was on low ladder, not much to say about this set tbh.
A more interesting set which is probably better on teams not using broken screens is agility. Even without an attack boost it can still surprsingly KO a lot of stuff like latias after rocks. I've used this set in the past but didnt use it this week unfortunately. Also, I think earthquake is a little bit better than crunch on agility since it hits mons like empoleon, tentacruel, and primarina harder, and its not like you could break through bulky waters anyway without DD.
Hoopa
I spent a lot more time this week trying to get Hoopa to shine. Its kind of funny that this would be my research pick since I was one of the first to run the substitute nasty plot set ages ago back during RU Alpha (maybe would have done the analysis if I had been more active on this site back then). Unfortunately I was unable to get Hoopa to put in as much work as back then. For this week I primarily ran the fightinium z set. Never-ending nightmare probably would have been a lot more useful in most matchups, but I was using Hoopa as my primary stallbreaker and I wasn't trying to lose the trending alolan muk stall (coincidentally the 3rd RW subject).
One of its problems is getting it in. Its typing isnt nearly as good defensively as other ghost types like Chandelure and Gengar, limiting its setup to the most passive of mons such as Amoonguss and bulky waters not running knock (which more of them do these days, so RIP). Fortunately, its special defense is ridiculously high so it can sponge any special attack (other than dark pulse) and nuke something with its zmove, especially Never-ending Nightmare which will get a kill against most teams. Because of its bad speed and defense however, forcing a trade is a lot of the time the best it can accomplish against more offensive builds.
Hoopa really shines against bulkier teams though, as it can freely sub against mons like Tentacruel and can start racking up serious damage. As luck would have it, I didn't face too many fat teams on ladder, and I didn't have the time to hunt for a lot of extra battles. But these are some of the replays when Hoopa finally does something great.
Final Thoughts:
Feraligatr is really great, I don't get why it took so long for people to discover it. As for Hoopa, it was alright. It might hold more destructive power than any other stallbreaker, but it many weaknesses hold it back to being a niche pick with a lot of competition. While similarish stall breakers like celebi and decidueye (the mon I used for dark horse project) have a problem with pursuit trapping, Hoopa has it way worse with its atrocious x4 weakness. While the previous mons mentioned usually involve 50/50s, for they can usually live a 40 base power pursuit and KO trappers like Krookodile and Aerodactyl after a boost, Hoopa forces no such predictions. It will die to a pursuit whether it stays in or switches, which is another reason why Hoopa can often only force a trade rather than plow through a team. And as previously mentioned, its defensive utility is a lot worse than most of its competitors making it harder to get on the field and set up. But it still has a place in the tier being that the only mon that can wall Hoopa is bulletproof Chesnaught if you already busted your zmove, and you're not running psychic coverage.
Feraligatr
I didn't have time to make my own gator team, so I took the cheap way and just used that screens team up until I got to like 1500 elo. As a ton of people have already said, feraligatr is really good on this kind of playstyle. Got a ton of sweeps with it, especially cause it was on low ladder, not much to say about this set tbh.
Hoopa
I spent a lot more time this week trying to get Hoopa to shine. Its kind of funny that this would be my research pick since I was one of the first to run the substitute nasty plot set ages ago back during RU Alpha (maybe would have done the analysis if I had been more active on this site back then). Unfortunately I was unable to get Hoopa to put in as much work as back then. For this week I primarily ran the fightinium z set. Never-ending nightmare probably would have been a lot more useful in most matchups, but I was using Hoopa as my primary stallbreaker and I wasn't trying to lose the trending alolan muk stall (coincidentally the 3rd RW subject).
One of its problems is getting it in. Its typing isnt nearly as good defensively as other ghost types like Chandelure and Gengar, limiting its setup to the most passive of mons such as Amoonguss and bulky waters not running knock (which more of them do these days, so RIP). Fortunately, its special defense is ridiculously high so it can sponge any special attack (other than dark pulse) and nuke something with its zmove, especially Never-ending Nightmare which will get a kill against most teams. Because of its bad speed and defense however, forcing a trade is a lot of the time the best it can accomplish against more offensive builds.
Hoopa really shines against bulkier teams though, as it can freely sub against mons like Tentacruel and can start racking up serious damage. As luck would have it, I didn't face too many fat teams on ladder, and I didn't have the time to hunt for a lot of extra battles. But these are some of the replays when Hoopa finally does something great.
Final Thoughts:
Feraligatr is really great, I don't get why it took so long for people to discover it. As for Hoopa, it was alright. It might hold more destructive power than any other stallbreaker, but it many weaknesses hold it back to being a niche pick with a lot of competition. While similarish stall breakers like celebi and decidueye (the mon I used for dark horse project) have a problem with pursuit trapping, Hoopa has it way worse with its atrocious x4 weakness. While the previous mons mentioned usually involve 50/50s, for they can usually live a 40 base power pursuit and KO trappers like Krookodile and Aerodactyl after a boost, Hoopa forces no such predictions. It will die to a pursuit whether it stays in or switches, which is another reason why Hoopa can often only force a trade rather than plow through a team. And as previously mentioned, its defensive utility is a lot worse than most of its competitors making it harder to get on the field and set up. But it still has a place in the tier being that the only mon that can wall Hoopa is bulletproof Chesnaught if you already busted your zmove, and you're not running psychic coverage.
For this week, I planned to use Feraligatr and Hoopa. I peaked around 1676 and my first week of research was rigorous in the early ladder because of all the Knock-off Gligar and Empoleon. Other than that, my experience with Hoopa has been rather exciting and fun. It showed some incredible capabilities versus all archetypes of the metagame with its sublime 150 Special Attack stat. I used a Specs Hoopa team that I built and a Sub Hoopa build as well. Shoutout to faded love for providing me with the great Sub Hoopa team!
Hoopa: I invested a ton of time investigating this mon and discovering its abilities in the metagame. I killed a shit ton of Scizor with a z-Shadowball in turn 1 which gave me a big advantage (it is an OHKO). And by the time I was finished, it was obvious that this pokemon could really punch through teams and create big holes for other cleaners in late-game. Matchups that had no answer to a combination of shadow ball + focus blast would really struggle against Hoopa. Both variants of Hoopa that I used were great stall breakers. In addition to its massive power, Hoopa was a great answer as a spin blocker. Common spinners such as non-Knock Off Tentacruel and even Starmie couldn't deal much damage and would get hit back very hard. However, both variants of Hoopa definitely did not enjoy versing pursuit trappers, such as Alolan - Muk, Mega - Aerodactyl and Krookadile which could easily check it without a sub and kill it with a Dark-Type move. It's important to note Hoopa's ability to come in attacks, unfortunately, due to its bad 4x weakness to ghost and dark was practically very hard if not impossible. It's also worth mentioning Hoopa's paper-thin defenses, which meant that a strong priority such as Scizor or Crawdaunt could finish it off after it has been weakened a bit. Also, Hoopa's speed isn't too great. So it will get revenged by faster Pokemon like Mamoswine.
Sub Hoopa: I found more success with the Sub set, as it provided a way to not have to predict a Hydreigon switch and Sub helped take advantage of -2 Latias and Rotom - Heat. Sub was also great because it could avoid the spore from Amoonguss and get a free opportunity and set up. Sub also avoided the Toxic from mons like Blissey and Alomomola which made this a great stall breaker. These replays provided down below really show Hoopa's ability to break through teams with the correct support.
Specs Hoopa: Specs Hoopa was really powerful because you could really click moves that dealt the most and not care. Good Hoopa matchups got nuked by specs and this set didn't care much about stall as it could use Trick on Fat counters like Blissey, which would lock it to one move and cripple it. However, this set was held back unfortunately due to the fact that healthy Pursuit trappers would be able to revenge it with pursuit. This meant that Specs Hoopa needed a lot of support, and it appreciates being matched up with things like Coballion and Terrakion, which would take advantage of Dark Type moves and help set up rocks for Hoopa in the later stages of the game.
Conclusions: Hoopa is an interesting mon, it can do many scary things that the metagame might not be used to. It has great offensive stats with dual stab moves and the access to a setup move in Nasty Plot. Unfortunately, its quad weakness to ghost and dark, some of the best offensive types in the tier really hinders it as it will get checked by mons that are seeing ample usage. Its mediocre speed tier is also a problem for Hoopa, as it gets checked by anything with a base speed of >70. Hoopa is outclassed by other ghost special attackers in the tier that has a much better speed tier, such as Gengar, or even Chandelure, which can check Scizor. However, good support mons like Mega Altaria and the Swords of Justice (minus Virizion) along with Hazard support and make a solid offensive synergy with Hoopa. This type of offensive cores will always remain to be a force to be reckoned with.
Hoopa: I invested a ton of time investigating this mon and discovering its abilities in the metagame. I killed a shit ton of Scizor with a z-Shadowball in turn 1 which gave me a big advantage (it is an OHKO). And by the time I was finished, it was obvious that this pokemon could really punch through teams and create big holes for other cleaners in late-game. Matchups that had no answer to a combination of shadow ball + focus blast would really struggle against Hoopa. Both variants of Hoopa that I used were great stall breakers. In addition to its massive power, Hoopa was a great answer as a spin blocker. Common spinners such as non-Knock Off Tentacruel and even Starmie couldn't deal much damage and would get hit back very hard. However, both variants of Hoopa definitely did not enjoy versing pursuit trappers, such as Alolan - Muk, Mega - Aerodactyl and Krookadile which could easily check it without a sub and kill it with a Dark-Type move. It's important to note Hoopa's ability to come in attacks, unfortunately, due to its bad 4x weakness to ghost and dark was practically very hard if not impossible. It's also worth mentioning Hoopa's paper-thin defenses, which meant that a strong priority such as Scizor or Crawdaunt could finish it off after it has been weakened a bit. Also, Hoopa's speed isn't too great. So it will get revenged by faster Pokemon like Mamoswine.
Sub Hoopa: I found more success with the Sub set, as it provided a way to not have to predict a Hydreigon switch and Sub helped take advantage of -2 Latias and Rotom - Heat. Sub was also great because it could avoid the spore from Amoonguss and get a free opportunity and set up. Sub also avoided the Toxic from mons like Blissey and Alomomola which made this a great stall breaker. These replays provided down below really show Hoopa's ability to break through teams with the correct support.
Conclusions: Hoopa is an interesting mon, it can do many scary things that the metagame might not be used to. It has great offensive stats with dual stab moves and the access to a setup move in Nasty Plot. Unfortunately, its quad weakness to ghost and dark, some of the best offensive types in the tier really hinders it as it will get checked by mons that are seeing ample usage. Its mediocre speed tier is also a problem for Hoopa, as it gets checked by anything with a base speed of >70. Hoopa is outclassed by other ghost special attackers in the tier that has a much better speed tier, such as Gengar, or even Chandelure, which can check Scizor. However, good support mons like Mega Altaria and the Swords of Justice (minus Virizion) along with Hazard support and make a solid offensive synergy with Hoopa. This type of offensive cores will always remain to be a force to be reckoned with.
Last edited:
Hoopa
Hoopa is the only thing I was really interested in testing because it’s the only mon that doesn’t entirely rely on matchup cheese to do something in games. Against offense it’s an extremely potent early-mid game threat, able to live certain physical hits such as CB Scizor BP from full and pretty much all unboosted neutral special attacks and OHKOing in return or doing upwards of 60-80% to most Ghost “resists”.
This good bulk/power combination means that even as the game progresses on past the point where you’ve blown your nuke and taken one hit, you can still punch holes with a timely double or on a lock into CC/Draco/Fire Blast etc etc etc.
It’s matchup versus bulky offense is better because generally half the team will be a free switchin for Hoopa to claim or significantly dent a wall. Additionally, slower, bulkier wincons (your suicunes, slowbros, fat scizors) found in these teams absolutely fail versus Hoopa, either dying outright to Z-Ghost, or dying after a boost or two. This is where it’s bulk really shines
In the stall matchup it really all depends on what move you picked fourth. Psyshock sets have a better chance of outright winning with rocks up, but not having sub sacrifices safety (I personally lean more towards Psyshock as hitting both bliss and pyuk at the same time is good imo and also you’re not walled by chesnaught and nihilego :cwl:). The choice of Sub vs Psyshock depends on your building philosophy. Is Hoopa more valuable to you as a win condition, or is it more valuable as wallbreaker? This really is the question you must pose not just in your matchup versus Stall but in your entire matchup spread as a whole, as this singular answer will control how you should really be playing Hoopa.
In conclusion, Hoopa separates itself as a potent offensive threat in the right hands due to okay speed, the high power/nuke potential which separates it from the likes of Mimikyu/Doublade, and its bulk allowing it to reliably apply damage versus most archetypes, which contrasts heavily from the glass cannon nature of Chandelure/Gengar. Yes, the Pursuit weakness, reliance on Focus Blast and mediocre speed tier really hold it back in certain matchups, but those are easily enough accounted for in teambuilding/good play to the point where I don’t even notice these things until I’ve already gotten a kill. Hoopa does enough for me in play for me to proclaim it as the best ghost in the metagame without much question. Hot take, I know, but if you don’t believe me, you can use my team that I made with it and see for yourself. s/o Notily for building with me and InfernoDolphin73 for the good times on ladder.
Have a wonderful day.
SLIDE. (Hoopa) @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Magician
EVs: 16 HP / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock / Substitute
Ability: Magician
EVs: 16 HP / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock / Substitute
Hoopa is the only thing I was really interested in testing because it’s the only mon that doesn’t entirely rely on matchup cheese to do something in games. Against offense it’s an extremely potent early-mid game threat, able to live certain physical hits such as CB Scizor BP from full and pretty much all unboosted neutral special attacks and OHKOing in return or doing upwards of 60-80% to most Ghost “resists”.
240 SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 156-185 (48 - 56.9%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO
240 SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 193-228 (58.3 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240 SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 233-274 (86.9 - 102.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
240 SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 192-226 (70.8 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
240 SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 193-228 (58.3 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240 SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 233-274 (86.9 - 102.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
240 SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 192-226 (70.8 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 244-288 (81 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240 SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 348-409 (108 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 154-183 (51.1 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Hoopa: 120-142 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Hoopa: 148-175 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 250-294 (81.9 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 211-250 (75 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 211-249 (72 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Infernape Fire Blast vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 246-289 (80.6 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (these two rarely if ever are at full and setup and also you can always double in with hoopa as they go into the special fighting type)
252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Hoopa: 225-265 (74.7 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
240 SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 348-409 (108 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 154-183 (51.1 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Hoopa: 120-142 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Hoopa: 148-175 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 250-294 (81.9 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 211-250 (75 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 211-249 (72 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Infernape Fire Blast vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 246-289 (80.6 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (these two rarely if ever are at full and setup and also you can always double in with hoopa as they go into the special fighting type)
252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Hoopa: 225-265 (74.7 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
This good bulk/power combination means that even as the game progresses on past the point where you’ve blown your nuke and taken one hit, you can still punch holes with a timely double or on a lock into CC/Draco/Fire Blast etc etc etc.
It’s matchup versus bulky offense is better because generally half the team will be a free switchin for Hoopa to claim or significantly dent a wall. Additionally, slower, bulkier wincons (your suicunes, slowbros, fat scizors) found in these teams absolutely fail versus Hoopa, either dying outright to Z-Ghost, or dying after a boost or two. This is where it’s bulk really shines
0 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 64-76 (20.9 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO (free sub)
+1 0 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 94-112 (30.8 - 36.7%) -- 70.8% chance to 3HKO
+4 240+ SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 40 SpD Suicune: 406-478 (100.4 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 240+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. +2 252 HP / 40 SpD Suicune: 204-240 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+4 240+ SpA Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 421-496 (104.2 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
20 SpA Rotom-Heat Volt Switch vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 64-76 (20.9 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO (pivoting doesn’t break sub)
+2 240+ SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 505-595 (128.1 - 151%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 102-120 (33.4 - 39.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 240+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 156-185 (51.1 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240+ SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Hippowdon: 334-394 (79.5 - 93.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (fuck Estarossa )
+1 0 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 94-112 (30.8 - 36.7%) -- 70.8% chance to 3HKO
+4 240+ SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 40 SpD Suicune: 406-478 (100.4 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 240+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. +2 252 HP / 40 SpD Suicune: 204-240 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+4 240+ SpA Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 421-496 (104.2 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
20 SpA Rotom-Heat Volt Switch vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 64-76 (20.9 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO (pivoting doesn’t break sub)
+2 240+ SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 505-595 (128.1 - 151%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 102-120 (33.4 - 39.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 240+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 156-185 (51.1 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240+ SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Hippowdon: 334-394 (79.5 - 93.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (fuck Estarossa )
In the stall matchup it really all depends on what move you picked fourth. Psyshock sets have a better chance of outright winning with rocks up, but not having sub sacrifices safety (I personally lean more towards Psyshock as hitting both bliss and pyuk at the same time is good imo and also you’re not walled by chesnaught and nihilego :cwl:). The choice of Sub vs Psyshock depends on your building philosophy. Is Hoopa more valuable to you as a win condition, or is it more valuable as wallbreaker? This really is the question you must pose not just in your matchup versus Stall but in your entire matchup spread as a whole, as this singular answer will control how you should really be playing Hoopa.
240+ SpA Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Pyukumuku: 127-150 (40.4 - 47.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (bit of chip and you win)
240+ SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Pyukumuku: 190-225 (60.5 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (same goes here)
240+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Pyukumuku: 96-114 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- 54.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 240+ SpA Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 574-676 (80.3 - 94.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
240+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 226-267 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
240+ SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 450-531 (114.2 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
240+ SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Pyukumuku: 190-225 (60.5 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (same goes here)
240+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Pyukumuku: 96-114 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- 54.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 240+ SpA Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 574-676 (80.3 - 94.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
240+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 226-267 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
240+ SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 450-531 (114.2 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
In conclusion, Hoopa separates itself as a potent offensive threat in the right hands due to okay speed, the high power/nuke potential which separates it from the likes of Mimikyu/Doublade, and its bulk allowing it to reliably apply damage versus most archetypes, which contrasts heavily from the glass cannon nature of Chandelure/Gengar. Yes, the Pursuit weakness, reliance on Focus Blast and mediocre speed tier really hold it back in certain matchups, but those are easily enough accounted for in teambuilding/good play to the point where I don’t even notice these things until I’ve already gotten a kill. Hoopa does enough for me in play for me to proclaim it as the best ghost in the metagame without much question. Hot take, I know, but if you don’t believe me, you can use my team that I made with it and see for yourself. s/o Notily for building with me and InfernoDolphin73 for the good times on ladder.
Have a wonderful day.
Last edited:
Hoopa
Hoopa @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
Team I used:
https://pokepast.es/1193a37429dec5e2
Alright where to begin. I guess the negatives first. Weak to dark making a switch play basically a death sentence if predicted wrongly. Also being weak 4x to ghost types is kinda a big nono and fortunately for me, ghost types haven't shown that much in my test with this little guy. It is also one of the slower offensive ghost types so sometimes i cry everytime I see a faster mon. But not too much. This could be a reason why a ran a webs team for it. By running webs, it is able to outspeed non scarf gengar and the fighting types in the tier in cobalion, infernape and terakion and hit them with either psychic or fight z for cobalion. Webs from ribombee also helps in making zeraora or manectric-mega in outspeed range for terrak to be able to OHKO them in return but this is hoopa and not my team in general. Hoopa is quite good in breaking stall. Being able to OHKO blissey after a nastyplot z-fblast is no easy feat. It also OHKOs sharpedo after a nastyplot through protect by using z fblast. Which was hilarious when I pulled it off as I also had webs up that time so I wouldve outsped him. I need to start recording my fights. Anyways the times I've had hoopa out in my entire run with him is fewer than the times I've brought out ribombee and throughout the run i've appreciated ribombee more. I'm saying this because I have been facing more offensive teams down here and not more defensive teams which I think hoopa shines more. Hoopa has a slow base speed that almost any offensive physical attacks kill it. It also has a bad defensive typing which makes it easy to kill. Bringing out hoopa on the field is also hard since either there are a lot of enemies that threaten offensively and they are also top threats such as mega-alt, scizor, mega-aero, the dark types, primarina offensive since , and the ghost types if there is not webs up. It also absolutely demolishes reuniclus which makes me feel nice inside. I also had to play a prediction heavy game with this set since I didnt use substitute and the times I killed their only hoopa answer/check made it quite easy to clean the team up since hoopa just has such a high special attack stat that it says fuck you to any special walls they may have. Hoopa also has passasble special bulk that it could take one special attack and not die and can revenge kill. Examples of this are:
:Calcs:
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hoopa: 120-142 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hoopa: 151-178 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
//This one is death if no rocks on enemy side since even with rocks hoopa only has a 31.3% chance to kill so chip damage is valuable
252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hoopa: 225-265 (74.7 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Infernape Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hoopa: 123-145 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
These are the faster mons than hoopa. It could also act as a soft check to infernape since psychic would kill it but a np from nape would kill hoopa and also can act as a soft to hard check on lucario after a sticky web since the prio attacks it usually carries is an immunity to hoopa. However it is bad to use its bulk to be able to take attacks since it needs all the health it needs to kill faster threats and live prio moves from scizor to be able to kil them effectively and live.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 244-288 (81 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hoopa All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 277-326 (86 - 101.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
However with stealth rocks, it is fucked so having no hazards on your side is quite beneficial. However in this case I should've used moltres but thats not the case here. This health range is the definition of either you losing or winning the game
Its physical defense is abysmal and its typing makes it vulnerable to be revenge killed. Bisharp and krook especially. So aggressive prediction is advised if you dont have substitute.
Hoopas job in vs hyper offense is to be a cleaner and usually should be reserved in late game or bring it in on mons it could kill and threaten so it could nasty plot up and be able to proceed to clean teams. Should be after webs though. Else hoopa feels like dead weight vs most faster threats. In vs stall, just bring it out when you predict they are gonna go for blissey and just nasty plot up and it could clean up teams. In pyukumukus case, if it switched into a stealth rock and psychic, hoopa can kill him with a z-focus blast then. This is maxed out pyukumuku spdef so it cant even switch in safely. However of course this is a heavy prediction game. Which isnt always good.
Conclusion:
Hoopa is good but needs support in order to be able to bring out its full potential. Also is a heavy predicton mon if you have no webs up. So I'd rate it.... 5-6/10. Decent I'd say.Also this research week made me REALLY appreciate ribombee so pls rank it in viability rankings so we can put 'er for research week
Hoopa @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
Team I used:
https://pokepast.es/1193a37429dec5e2
Alright where to begin. I guess the negatives first. Weak to dark making a switch play basically a death sentence if predicted wrongly. Also being weak 4x to ghost types is kinda a big nono and fortunately for me, ghost types haven't shown that much in my test with this little guy. It is also one of the slower offensive ghost types so sometimes i cry everytime I see a faster mon. But not too much. This could be a reason why a ran a webs team for it. By running webs, it is able to outspeed non scarf gengar and the fighting types in the tier in cobalion, infernape and terakion and hit them with either psychic or fight z for cobalion. Webs from ribombee also helps in making zeraora or manectric-mega in outspeed range for terrak to be able to OHKO them in return but this is hoopa and not my team in general. Hoopa is quite good in breaking stall. Being able to OHKO blissey after a nastyplot z-fblast is no easy feat. It also OHKOs sharpedo after a nastyplot through protect by using z fblast. Which was hilarious when I pulled it off as I also had webs up that time so I wouldve outsped him. I need to start recording my fights. Anyways the times I've had hoopa out in my entire run with him is fewer than the times I've brought out ribombee and throughout the run i've appreciated ribombee more. I'm saying this because I have been facing more offensive teams down here and not more defensive teams which I think hoopa shines more. Hoopa has a slow base speed that almost any offensive physical attacks kill it. It also has a bad defensive typing which makes it easy to kill. Bringing out hoopa on the field is also hard since either there are a lot of enemies that threaten offensively and they are also top threats such as mega-alt, scizor, mega-aero, the dark types, primarina offensive since , and the ghost types if there is not webs up. It also absolutely demolishes reuniclus which makes me feel nice inside. I also had to play a prediction heavy game with this set since I didnt use substitute and the times I killed their only hoopa answer/check made it quite easy to clean the team up since hoopa just has such a high special attack stat that it says fuck you to any special walls they may have. Hoopa also has passasble special bulk that it could take one special attack and not die and can revenge kill. Examples of this are:
:Calcs:
252 SpA Manectric-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hoopa: 120-142 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hoopa: 151-178 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
//This one is death if no rocks on enemy side since even with rocks hoopa only has a 31.3% chance to kill so chip damage is valuable
252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hoopa: 225-265 (74.7 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Infernape Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hoopa: 123-145 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
These are the faster mons than hoopa. It could also act as a soft check to infernape since psychic would kill it but a np from nape would kill hoopa and also can act as a soft to hard check on lucario after a sticky web since the prio attacks it usually carries is an immunity to hoopa. However it is bad to use its bulk to be able to take attacks since it needs all the health it needs to kill faster threats and live prio moves from scizor to be able to kil them effectively and live.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 244-288 (81 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hoopa All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 277-326 (86 - 101.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
However with stealth rocks, it is fucked so having no hazards on your side is quite beneficial. However in this case I should've used moltres but thats not the case here. This health range is the definition of either you losing or winning the game
Its physical defense is abysmal and its typing makes it vulnerable to be revenge killed. Bisharp and krook especially. So aggressive prediction is advised if you dont have substitute.
Hoopas job in vs hyper offense is to be a cleaner and usually should be reserved in late game or bring it in on mons it could kill and threaten so it could nasty plot up and be able to proceed to clean teams. Should be after webs though. Else hoopa feels like dead weight vs most faster threats. In vs stall, just bring it out when you predict they are gonna go for blissey and just nasty plot up and it could clean up teams. In pyukumukus case, if it switched into a stealth rock and psychic, hoopa can kill him with a z-focus blast then. This is maxed out pyukumuku spdef so it cant even switch in safely. However of course this is a heavy prediction game. Which isnt always good.
Conclusion:
Hoopa is good but needs support in order to be able to bring out its full potential. Also is a heavy predicton mon if you have no webs up. So I'd rate it.... 5-6/10. Decent I'd say.
Congratulations to InfernoDolphin73 for winning the fourth week! As customary I have gathered up all the thoughts from everyone who has posted. We only have one post for Muk-Alola due to many participants not posting their thoughts in time, so if needed I will interject a few of my thoughts. If you do sign up remember you have to post your thoughts to be eligible, even writing a small paragraph helps a lot.
Feraligatr
Feraligatr has an amazing coverage pool, most of which can be boosted by Sheer Force. This being very strong when being further boosted by a Life Orb allowing Gatr to be an effective late-game cleaner as stated by masterball200 and Rawbi. Rawbi also mentioning it has decent natural bulk allowing it to take a strong neutral hit to set up and break/sweep. While Feraligatr is a potent user of Dragon Dance it is still slower than many common threats in Mega Manectric, Aerodactyl, and Beedrill, which can be detrimental for its cleaning capabilities as masterball200 mentioned. Daiyaga and masterball200 mention Feraligatr faces a lot of competition to be the Water-type on a team, as it struggles to set itself apart, other than it being able to clean with DD and having fairly decent bulk. Pokemon like Starmie and Primarina being stronger breakers and have a secondary typing, which provides more utility to teams. Daiyaga found that Gatr was not an easy Pokemon to simply slot into a standard team for this reason. Our researchers also tried out an Agility set, which is capable of outspeeding the unboosted metagame; however, masterball200 found it to be very weak and reliant on LO + Sheer Force to do enough damage. Galactiknight believes the Agility set is fairly good outside of screens and can still secure KOs on Pokemon like Latias with the help of entry hazards like Stealth Rock. Most players agreed Feraligatr requires support to be effective and most said Spikes support is very much appreciated to secure KOs. Daiyaga and Galactiknight also mentioning the classic screens support being amazing for Gatr as it can more easily reach +2.
Muk-Alola
Muk-Alola is still a very good Pursuit user that can beat every Psychic-type in the tier especially with more and more of them running fewer coverage options to touch Muk. An example being Celebi no longer running Tectonic Rage as pointed out by Daiyaga. Muk-A is still effective against teams that lack a Psychic-type as it can trap other specially offensive threats and trap them, such as Nihilego and Mega Scpeptile which Daiyaga mentioned. Daiyaga also mentions that Knock Off provides a lot of utility to teams as it can remove items from Pokemon like Gligar and Hippowdon, which most players resort to as their switch in. This is especially noticeable on Stall teams that lack a Muk-A switch in other than Gligar. Poison Touch in conjunction with Poison Jab gives Muk-A an extremely good chance to poison something and cripple their effectiveness. This drastically improving Muk-A ability to pressure Stall teams, as it forces them to use their limited Heal Bell's as Daiyaga pointed out. However, Muk-A struggles with many of the tiers Fighting- and Steel-types, which are very common in almost every team. Fortunately, Muk-A does have access to moves like Focus Punch, although prediction reliant, to hit them for a substantial amount of damage and KOing Terrakion in particular.
Hoopa
Hoopa was the most used Pokemon among our researchers, so a lot to go over here. masterball200, OneSmogonCopyer, and InfernoDolphin73 mention how Hoopa has an amazing offensive typing and strong movepool, which makes it difficult to easily switch into. However, they mention how it is a bad typing defensively especially because it is 4x weak to Dark-type moves, notably Pursuit being a huge factor. masterball200 and InfernoDolphin73 mentioned it has a mediocre Defense stat so can be picked off by priority users like Scizor and Crawdaunt, but faded love mentions it has enough bulk to survive a Scizor Bullet Punch and KO back with its strong Z move. Galactiknight and OneSmogonCopyer stated that its poor defense leaves it very vulnerable and gives it the inability to switch into many attacks on this end, so prefers coming in on passive Pokemon like Amoonguss to set up and break. However, Galactiknight and faded love mention, how its amazing SpD stat really helps it live a lot of attacks aimed at it from Pokemon like Suicune, Slowbro, etc. which allows it to tank a hit and KO them with a Z move or set up alongside them. InfernoDolphin73 also mentions Hoopa performs the role of a spinblocker very well, especially due to its SpD allowing it to tank hits from Tentacruel. InfernoDolphin73, masterball200, and OneSmogonCopyer explain how its access to Nasty Plot gives it the niche over other Ghost types to be a great wall/stallbreaker, especially with Substitute to ease its weakness to Pursuit and give it more chances to setup. faded love mentioned that Substitute should be opted if you prefer to ease its longevity as a potential wincon, but Psyshock is more valued to improve its niche as a stallbreaker.
Hoopa's main matchup is against fat teams, due to its middling Speed tier making it struggle to handle offense as stated by Galactiknight and faded love, but Faded does believe it can be a strong early breaker against offense too. Fightinium Z was an option used to break past Blissey, but most notably Muk-A which is common on some stalls and one of the options this week as stated by masterball200 and Galactiknight. However, Galactiknight does mention that Ghostium Z is a viable option that covers more targets and is the Z of choice faded love used, which still hits its checks very hard unboosted. Inferno tried specs to nuke past its checks and take immediate advantage of its amazing SpA stat. However, the effectiveness of this set was held back by its glaring weakness to Pursuit. masterball200 and OneSmogonCopyer found Hoopa to be fairly effective under the support of Sticky Webs as it can outspeed threats like Gengar, which annoy it. masterball200 believes Hoopa struggles to compete against other Ghost- and Psychic-types like Gengar and Latias respectively, which are faster and provide more utility to teams, though this is completely different in opinion to faded love who deems it the best Ghost-type in the tier.
That concludes the findings for the third week!
Week 5 Picks:
Lanturn had some discussion in the post UUPL dump, so I want you guys to test its effectiveness. Lanturn on paper has some useful perks of being able to check Pokemon like Moltres, Rotom-H, Boltbeam Latias, and Mega Manectric, which is a very hard feat to do for most Pokemon. It has a very high natural HP stat, which allows it to be a decent specially defensive sponge. Though it comes at the cost of being a Water-type weak to Ground-type attacks. I would like you guys to test it out and determine if its potential niche on paper is enough for it to be decent in the tier.
Weezing is also another Pokemon, which has had a lot of discussion over the last few months. Weezing has the unique ability to be able to handle Pokemon like Mega Altaria and to an extent Scizor, fairly easily. It's ability in Levitate making it immune to Ground-type attacks removing its weakness to a typing altogether. While this is the case, Weezing is very reliant on Pain Split as its recovery, but maybe this is enough for it to have a strong enough niche in the tier.
Choice Specs Lucario was a set proposed by faded love in the UUPL set dump and looks to take advantage of Lucario's immediate power than being reliant on it having to try and set up a Nasty Plot or Swords Dance. In most cases, Lucario's frailty can prevent it from finding ample opportunities to do so. This also allows Lucario to take advantage of its decent movepool to potentially include more creative options over the Nasty Plot slot, so I am interested to see what you guys think about this set.
As a separate note if anyone would like to suggest ideas for future weeks then please pm me through Smogon or Discord so I can consider implementing them into future weeks. Thank you again for everyone that contributes to keeping this thread running.
Sign up with a fresh USRW5 alt and post your results and thoughts on the Pokemon in question. This is mandatory to be eligible to be counted in the given week, read the OP for more information regarding the length of your findings. You are free to edit your signup post if your post count is a concern. For this week, the deadline will be Sunday, August 4th, at 11:59 pm GMT+1. My fellow host Sickist or I will check everyone's ladder scores then and decide the winner. Good luck everyone and happy researching!
Feraligatr has an amazing coverage pool, most of which can be boosted by Sheer Force. This being very strong when being further boosted by a Life Orb allowing Gatr to be an effective late-game cleaner as stated by masterball200 and Rawbi. Rawbi also mentioning it has decent natural bulk allowing it to take a strong neutral hit to set up and break/sweep. While Feraligatr is a potent user of Dragon Dance it is still slower than many common threats in Mega Manectric, Aerodactyl, and Beedrill, which can be detrimental for its cleaning capabilities as masterball200 mentioned. Daiyaga and masterball200 mention Feraligatr faces a lot of competition to be the Water-type on a team, as it struggles to set itself apart, other than it being able to clean with DD and having fairly decent bulk. Pokemon like Starmie and Primarina being stronger breakers and have a secondary typing, which provides more utility to teams. Daiyaga found that Gatr was not an easy Pokemon to simply slot into a standard team for this reason. Our researchers also tried out an Agility set, which is capable of outspeeding the unboosted metagame; however, masterball200 found it to be very weak and reliant on LO + Sheer Force to do enough damage. Galactiknight believes the Agility set is fairly good outside of screens and can still secure KOs on Pokemon like Latias with the help of entry hazards like Stealth Rock. Most players agreed Feraligatr requires support to be effective and most said Spikes support is very much appreciated to secure KOs. Daiyaga and Galactiknight also mentioning the classic screens support being amazing for Gatr as it can more easily reach +2.
Muk-Alola is still a very good Pursuit user that can beat every Psychic-type in the tier especially with more and more of them running fewer coverage options to touch Muk. An example being Celebi no longer running Tectonic Rage as pointed out by Daiyaga. Muk-A is still effective against teams that lack a Psychic-type as it can trap other specially offensive threats and trap them, such as Nihilego and Mega Scpeptile which Daiyaga mentioned. Daiyaga also mentions that Knock Off provides a lot of utility to teams as it can remove items from Pokemon like Gligar and Hippowdon, which most players resort to as their switch in. This is especially noticeable on Stall teams that lack a Muk-A switch in other than Gligar. Poison Touch in conjunction with Poison Jab gives Muk-A an extremely good chance to poison something and cripple their effectiveness. This drastically improving Muk-A ability to pressure Stall teams, as it forces them to use their limited Heal Bell's as Daiyaga pointed out. However, Muk-A struggles with many of the tiers Fighting- and Steel-types, which are very common in almost every team. Fortunately, Muk-A does have access to moves like Focus Punch, although prediction reliant, to hit them for a substantial amount of damage and KOing Terrakion in particular.
Hoopa was the most used Pokemon among our researchers, so a lot to go over here. masterball200, OneSmogonCopyer, and InfernoDolphin73 mention how Hoopa has an amazing offensive typing and strong movepool, which makes it difficult to easily switch into. However, they mention how it is a bad typing defensively especially because it is 4x weak to Dark-type moves, notably Pursuit being a huge factor. masterball200 and InfernoDolphin73 mentioned it has a mediocre Defense stat so can be picked off by priority users like Scizor and Crawdaunt, but faded love mentions it has enough bulk to survive a Scizor Bullet Punch and KO back with its strong Z move. Galactiknight and OneSmogonCopyer stated that its poor defense leaves it very vulnerable and gives it the inability to switch into many attacks on this end, so prefers coming in on passive Pokemon like Amoonguss to set up and break. However, Galactiknight and faded love mention, how its amazing SpD stat really helps it live a lot of attacks aimed at it from Pokemon like Suicune, Slowbro, etc. which allows it to tank a hit and KO them with a Z move or set up alongside them. InfernoDolphin73 also mentions Hoopa performs the role of a spinblocker very well, especially due to its SpD allowing it to tank hits from Tentacruel. InfernoDolphin73, masterball200, and OneSmogonCopyer explain how its access to Nasty Plot gives it the niche over other Ghost types to be a great wall/stallbreaker, especially with Substitute to ease its weakness to Pursuit and give it more chances to setup. faded love mentioned that Substitute should be opted if you prefer to ease its longevity as a potential wincon, but Psyshock is more valued to improve its niche as a stallbreaker.
Hoopa's main matchup is against fat teams, due to its middling Speed tier making it struggle to handle offense as stated by Galactiknight and faded love, but Faded does believe it can be a strong early breaker against offense too. Fightinium Z was an option used to break past Blissey, but most notably Muk-A which is common on some stalls and one of the options this week as stated by masterball200 and Galactiknight. However, Galactiknight does mention that Ghostium Z is a viable option that covers more targets and is the Z of choice faded love used, which still hits its checks very hard unboosted. Inferno tried specs to nuke past its checks and take immediate advantage of its amazing SpA stat. However, the effectiveness of this set was held back by its glaring weakness to Pursuit. masterball200 and OneSmogonCopyer found Hoopa to be fairly effective under the support of Sticky Webs as it can outspeed threats like Gengar, which annoy it. masterball200 believes Hoopa struggles to compete against other Ghost- and Psychic-types like Gengar and Latias respectively, which are faster and provide more utility to teams, though this is completely different in opinion to faded love who deems it the best Ghost-type in the tier.
That concludes the findings for the third week!
Week 5 Picks:
Lanturn @ Filler
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: Filler
-
-
-
-
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: Filler
-
-
-
-
Weezing @ Filler
Ability: Levitate
EVs: Filler
-
-
-
-
Ability: Levitate
EVs: Filler
-
-
-
-
Lucario @ Choice Specs
Ability: Filler
EVs: Filler
IVs: 0 Atk
-
-
-
-
Ability: Filler
EVs: Filler
IVs: 0 Atk
-
-
-
-
Lanturn had some discussion in the post UUPL dump, so I want you guys to test its effectiveness. Lanturn on paper has some useful perks of being able to check Pokemon like Moltres, Rotom-H, Boltbeam Latias, and Mega Manectric, which is a very hard feat to do for most Pokemon. It has a very high natural HP stat, which allows it to be a decent specially defensive sponge. Though it comes at the cost of being a Water-type weak to Ground-type attacks. I would like you guys to test it out and determine if its potential niche on paper is enough for it to be decent in the tier.
Weezing is also another Pokemon, which has had a lot of discussion over the last few months. Weezing has the unique ability to be able to handle Pokemon like Mega Altaria and to an extent Scizor, fairly easily. It's ability in Levitate making it immune to Ground-type attacks removing its weakness to a typing altogether. While this is the case, Weezing is very reliant on Pain Split as its recovery, but maybe this is enough for it to have a strong enough niche in the tier.
Choice Specs Lucario was a set proposed by faded love in the UUPL set dump and looks to take advantage of Lucario's immediate power than being reliant on it having to try and set up a Nasty Plot or Swords Dance. In most cases, Lucario's frailty can prevent it from finding ample opportunities to do so. This also allows Lucario to take advantage of its decent movepool to potentially include more creative options over the Nasty Plot slot, so I am interested to see what you guys think about this set.
As a separate note if anyone would like to suggest ideas for future weeks then please pm me through Smogon or Discord so I can consider implementing them into future weeks. Thank you again for everyone that contributes to keeping this thread running.
Sign up with a fresh USRW5 alt and post your results and thoughts on the Pokemon in question. This is mandatory to be eligible to be counted in the given week, read the OP for more information regarding the length of your findings. You are free to edit your signup post if your post count is a concern. For this week, the deadline will be Sunday, August 4th, at 11:59 pm GMT+1. My fellow host Sickist or I will check everyone's ladder scores then and decide the winner. Good luck everyone and happy researching!
USRW5 OS. Might take Lanturn or Weezing.
USRW5 Swoosh
using lanturn, weezing, and if I have time lucario
using lanturn, weezing, and if I have time lucario
USRW5 Gaslight
Taking Lanturn and Weezing
Taking Lanturn and Weezing
