Project USUM UU Research Week v3 | Week 5 - Lanturn, Weezing, and Choice Specs Lucario

Estarossa

moo?
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Battle Simulator Moderator
C&C Leader
Early posting too, had a rough week with low ladder as well. Gonna split Poyrgon up into 2 different pokemon for this week, to differentiate between eviolite and z-conversion.

I will possibly add a section on starmie and terrakion later depending on if I find time!

In the end, I have to say I preferred Eviolite porygon2 as it was more consistent, but both options need quite a bit of team support to make work, and aren't very splashable.
Porygon2 - Eviolite





Click sprites for team importable.

Eviolite porygon2 when invested with special defence seems at first to be an incredible special wall, capable of dealing with threats such as latias, aerodactyl, hydreigon, gengar, nidoking, primarina, nihilego, volcanion, starmie and moltres, although it needs to predict the z-fight and recover on it to avoid the 2hko from gengar, as it is a roll for a 2hko from gengar, and it can only check latias if it's not been burned by something.

One of it's greatest benefits however is what trace can do for it, between tracing abilities such as flame body from moltres to dissuade physical attackers, tracing water absorb from volcanion to make it unable to click its water STAB, tracing sheer force from nidoking to hit harder, tracing serene grace from togekiss to massively increase para/freeze chances, or tracing natural cure from starmie and celebi to clear itself of status, and much more.

Unfortunately however, it is not able of dealing with nasty plot users such as celebi, or fighting type special attackers such as lucario and infernape, especially as celebi has natural cure. In the team above I decided to pair it with an AV bisharp to solidify the latias and celebi matchups for p2 (incase latias gets burned by something else), and a mega-bro/moltres pairing to deal with infernape and lucario, which also is there to help it with physical attackers such as cobalion/terrakion and scizor respectively.

However, porygon2 is weak vs most physical attackers, although it can check weaker offensive ones like aerodactyl that don't carry fighting type moves or knock off , there is a lot of fighting type coverage going around and knock off to threaten it. It also has to watch out for knock off from special attackers such as empoleon and tentacruel.


Another major issue for it is it's over reliance on eviolite to check special attackers, and its weakness to status in non-stall matchups (will come to stall matchups in a minute). Unfortunately however, a cleric would typically be overkill with porygon2 as there is a large overlap in what they check, which means you need to rely on tracing natural cure from pokemon like starmie/celebi/blissey to cure yourself, or using toxic immune pokemon such as steels and gligar to sponge toxics.

However, where eviolite porygon2 comes in as a real boon over a lot of other special walls is that it isnt dead weight in the stall matchup. This is primarily due to what trace can do for you in the stall matchup. By tracing natural cure from blissey, you are able to sponge status from it, and waste its seismic toss pp with your recovers. By tracing regenerator from alomamola, you can give yourself a free heal, and you dont have to care about knock off particularly in this matchup either here. By tracing pressure from moltres/articuno, you can waste their pp in reverse, and whatever they swap into too.

In contrast to blockbro, this doesn't trap and kill stall itself, but instead makes itself a hard pokemon for stall to actually kill, and makes it waste a lot of pp against it.

Eviolite porygon2 has a nice set of options it can run for attacks. Recover and toxic are basically a requirement, but it has multiple options in the last 2 slots. Discharge + ice beam give it boltbeam coverage and allow it to also spread paralysis around. Foul play + tri attack allows it to hurt physical attackers trying to come in on it, while giving it a strong spammable stab attack, that can also 2hko altaria when you trace pixilate. Magic coat or thunder wave are also options that allow you to bounce back hazards / status or spread paralysis with a much greater chance, but don't offer you as much coverage. It can even run psywave to have a pseudo-seismic toss, however it needs to have its hidden ability analytic to do this.

Tl-dr
: An interesting option for teams wanting a blanket check to a lot of key special attackers, but requires a reasonable level of defensive/offensive support for the things it struggles with. However, in the same light as block-bro, allows you to play more defensively by being a defensive pokemon thats not dead weight against stall.


Porygon2 - Z-Conversion




Click sprites for team importable.

Porygon2 is an interesting option as an omnibooster, with the potential to become more powerful than the other options due to download. Both electric and ghost types are options for z-conversion porygon2, with electric hitting harder and hitting more things supereffectively, and also resisting bullet punch, while ghost is immune to normal and fighting type priorities and does not share the ground weakness that makes it easier for aerodactyl to revenge, and also is able to hit mamoswine harder, due to thickfat making mamoswine easily dealing with electric.

Porygon2 however requires quite an amount of support to pull off this role, since this is a one-time usage, all potential checks need to be in range of being killed before it can start a sweep. It also has trouble setting up a lot of the time, with pokemon it would like to set up on offering Attack boosts from download instead, eg. florges/sylveon (which wall you if you dont get a +2 boost), and offers 0 stall matchup due to being unable to break past quagsire and blissey, the prior even hazing you if it has it. It also has very subpar bulk before setting up, due to no eviolite, making it harder to find opportunities.


Also, no matter which type is chosen, there will be a bunch of offensive pokemon capable of revenge killing you. For electric p2, scarf krookodile, mega aerodactyl and thick fat mamoswine all pose serious threats, though aerodactyl will need some chip first, and for ghost p2, scarf krookodile, scarf hydreigon, bisharp and more. Other pokemon such as rotom-heat may not be able to beat you offensively, but can toxic you while resisting your dual boltbeam stabs, putting you on a timer.

An advantage over other omniboosters it has however is that bolt-beam coverage allows it to reliably run recover, with only a few pokemon such as mamoswine, rotom-heat and magneton resisting your dual stabs.

The team for this one attempts to aid porygon2 by using hippowdon to prevent florges/sylveon from healing themselves until they are in range of sweeping, and blockbro to trap and kill other bulky pokemon porygon2 cant break. However, in a lot of games it was still tricky to actually get set up opportunities.

Tl-dr: Heavily matchup dependent, likely to either have a very good matchup and sweep easily or be complete dead weight or struggle to ever get an opportunity to set up. Electric is probably better than ghost as it increases your sweeping more, and scarf krookodile is a problem for you either way anyway.


 
Last edited:
My ladder performance has been straight up awful this week, so I decided to give up and write my thoughts on my two mons here.


Berry Terrakion
I wasn't able to effectively utilize the two berries I could conjure. I thought Salac Berry would be useful in conjunction with Substitute to help make subs until the Salac Berry can boost its speed, helping it outspeed mons it wouldn't be able to before. However, activating that can be a challenge, not to mention that it can leave Terrakion in range of priority. The HP restoration berries can help Terrakion have more staying power, but then again, it comes with a loss of power like the stat pinch berries. Also, Terrakion's STABs have drawbacks (Stone Edge is inaccurate, Rock Slide is weak, Close Combat drops defenses). The berries do have their uses, especially in conjunction with Substitute, however, Terrakion does have more power with Choice Band or Z-move variants and the same speed boost from Salac Berry from the get-go with Choice Scarf.

183412

Colbur Berry Starmie
I also wasn't able to effectively utilize Colbur Berry Starmie. However, let's think about its uses. It can 1v1 Scarf Krookodile, right? Yeah:
252 Atk Krookodile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colbur Berry Starmie: 169-199 (64.7 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (imagine this but with a bulkier investment)
How about Hydreigon?
252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Colbur Berry Starmie: 145-172 (55.5 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That is cool, however...
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 237-280 (90.8 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Bisharp?
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colbur Berry Starmie: 193-228 (73.9 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And Hydro Pump doesn't even OHKO, so it's not doing the best at luring the threats it wants to. Not to mention Analytic only boosts the power of Starmie's attacks if Starmie attacks last, so this does require some HP investment, which can detract from the speed it needs to outspeed some threats. Also, the power drop compared to Life Orb or Waterium Z is quite significant, so it really isn't that good of a lure to Dark-types (Starmie can beat some Knock Off users not of the Dark-type, but some are just too powerful for it).

If I had done better on the ladder this week, my analysis would've been a lot better. Maybe I'll stick to 1 Pokemon for next time.
 
Thank you everyone that has posted their thoughts for this week. We have decided it would be best to put Research Week on hold till the Mega Altaria suspect has finished. Most of you may want to dedicate some time to try getting reqs, not to mention this will have a lot of influence on the ladder which can skew some of your results. This break will end once the results for Mega Altaria's fate are released. In the event that more suspects are to come, we as the hosts will determine if it would be best to put this thread on break again or utilize it within the new week. OneSmogonCopyer you may still post your results for what you test within the next few weeks. If any new comers wish to participate within this time frame to ladder and post their thoughts, feel free too ^_^
 
Last edited:

avarice

greedy for love
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SCL Champion
RoAPL Champion
wasn't really planning to participate but p2 caught my eye and I use colbur starmie/berry rak regularly tbh. the suspect going on deterred me from laddering but i still wanted to share my thoughts on these mons. gonna go through in no particular order.

-------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------


Colbur Berry Starmie - White Dwarf:

Colbur Berry Starmie is not exactly the most exciting thing to test, really. It does its job though and to an extent can surprise Hydreigon, Bisharp, and Krookodile by living and being able to fire an Analytic boosted Hydro / Ice Beam respectively. However, for this I personally prefer Choice Scarf since its "more" dedicated on luring them and Colbur Berry can be for not if Starmie gets chipped down from entry hazards or w/e. The lack of LO recoil makes Colbur Berry, an interesting middle ground though. Bluffing Waterium-Z (somewhat) is cool too. The power difference is also a bit noticable, since while you can eat a Dark Pulse from Hydreigon you still only do like 60% back. I dislike using Colbur Berry on Defensive Starmie sets since those can more viably run Protect and keep Leftovers. Either way, Colbur is not something you build around-- just something that fits the needs of your team specifically. Overall, Colbur Berry Starmie makes a good pick on teams where you need somewhat of an offensive presence but can not afford to let your Hazard Removal go down too early. I do not have many replays of Colbur Berry Starmie putting in work/luring well because of my love for Choice Scarf.

1562362226035.png
184560
793 (1).png
184562
184563
184564

Bisharp (M) @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Atk / 48 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Curse

Nihilego @ Passho Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Toxic Spikes

Moltres @ Metronome
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Flamethrower
- Hurricane
- Roost

Starmie @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin

Florges-Blue @ Leftovers
Ability: Symbiosis
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Synthesis
- Aromatherapy
- Wish
Offensive Starmie with essentially nothing different you can't really build around comfortably. This Bisharp team appreciates Colbur Berry Starmie though. I wanted a bulkier team with SD Bisharp. Added Mega Steelix as my "real" Steel-type and the rest filled in quick. Wish Support and no LO recoil let Starmie have more staying power and be removal for Moltres. Toxic Spikes from Nihilego helped too, to encourage opposing Defog potentially. Toxic Spikes + Z-Move Bisharp gave me a decent Stall match-up too.

Replay:
-------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------


Berry Terrakion - Gluttonous

Ban Terrakion imo. Terrakion with its monstrous attack stat is going to prefer the Z-move if possible always no question. Iapapa, Babiri, and even Shuca can all function on the beast. In terms of Terrakion's "best berry" I'd have to say Babiri simply because of Scizor being more broken than rak :pensive: . Being able to SD on chipped Aggron and Steelix is neat but rarely ever comes into play. Iapapa can be devastating against teams that chip Terrakion into range and lets one be more aggressive with it, though the amount of times it does not get popped, or gets Knocked Off is annoying (moreso than the resist berries). Shuca Berry Terrakion I tried like once on a team I ended up scrapping completely but it was okay at punishing Hippo, Gligar, and avoiding revenge kill from Krookodile. I feel like the Ground-types are easier to exploit through other team members compared to just Scizor with Babiri though.

184565
184566
184567
184568
184569
184570

Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Draco Meteor

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 244 HP / 16 Atk / 148 Def / 96 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Signal Beam
- Flamethrower
- Volt Switch

Terrakion @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance

Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Defog
- Earthquake
- Roost
- U-turn

Tornadus @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Tailwind
Built for elodin vs pdt , and more specifically Tornadus but it appreciates Babiri Terrakion. Specs Hydreigon under Tailwind sounded mad fun so I went with that and supported with classic Volturn Gligar / Mane / Sciz to get opportunies to set up or break. Terrakion is able to get up Stealth Rocks and revenge kill Scizor more reliably to an extent since the rest of the team does not appreciate +2 Scizor, especially Quick Attack variants. Playing more aggressively around the bulkier Steel-types and Defensive Scizor not being able to finish the kill can come in handy against stall too.

Replay: Do not have any replays saved with Babiri/other berries popping and outright saving a game
-------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------


Porygon 2: One Shot

Porygon 2 is obviously the most "unique" mon this research week. Even if it is hard to build with it does deserve the representation on the VR its gotten. In the same vain as Babiri Terrakion Scizor's presence makes Porygon 2 a lot better. Its free set up and gets the SpA boost everytime. Without getting the opportunity for the download boost though the power drop is hella noticable. And, without evolite, it defensively struggles too. It frankly it a wasted slot with 0 defensively utility when it isn't set up. As such, it ends up being rather match up reliant. Rotom-H, Scarf Krookodile, and Mega Aerodactyl all stand out as threats. Porygon 2 is relatively established too so higher up the ladder they'll expect the omni-boost as opposed to a random defensive set. Toxic existing can limit Porygon actually making use of Recover too. BoltBeam is the only viable coverage for it too really since going Ghost makes you vulnerable to scarf Hydreigon and going Ice is just lol. I still think Porygon is usable, but you are never going to see a team and go "yeah, Porygon fits well here", you have to be building around it and play for its success.

184579
184580
184581
184582
1562363875730.png
793 (1).png

Porygon2 @ Normalium Z
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Conversion
- Ice Beam

Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Refresh
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge
- Roost

Cobalion @ Expert Belt
Ability: Justified
EVs: 212 Atk / 44 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock

Necrozma @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Photon Geyser
- Calm Mind
- Heat Wave
- Signal Beam

Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 9 Spe
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn

Nihilego @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Power Gem
- Sludge Wave
- Grass Knot
- Thunderbolt
I adamantly (ha) believe Refresh Altaria is Porygon's best partner since it covers Krookodile, Rotom H, and Stall (sorta) in one slot. I built this team wanting to not use Swampert/Seismitoad like I have with Porygon in the past. Cobalion I've been slapping on a bunch of teams lately and it could punish Dark Pulses from Hydreigon before Altaria megas while serving as a rocker. CM Necrozma is cool for stuff that thinks they can just recover off Photon Geyser damage and is a real threat against slower teams. Gligar is mandatory removal/electric-immunity. Nihilego is my speed control and can really help out P2 winning mind games against Scarf Krookodile

Replay: Couldn't find any recent replays of pulling off a P2 sweep :x

-------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------

tl;dr :
  • Colbur Berry Starmie is a decent middle ground but usually better off committing to offensive LO/Z or Defensive
  • Terrakion can make good use of Berries at the risk of essentially holding no item a fair amount of games, and runs the risk of having said berry Knocked when trying to use Justified.
  • P2 runs the risk of being a dead slot against Stall or certain mons but can really pay off in certain match ups despite its lack of utility and needing to eat the Z-Move.
 
Last edited:
With that, the second week has come to an end. Congratulations to Daiyaga once again for winning this Research Week again! As customary I have gathered up all the thoughts from everyone who has posted. Sorry for the delay due to the Mega Altaria suspect having such a big impact. Mimikyu is also being suspected, so instead of delaying this thread any longer I have decided to incorporate it into this week. I will understand if the number or quality of submissions might be low during this week if you choose to dedicate more time to getting reqs, but I feel like this would be a good choice. In the chance Mimimyu stays banned at least some thoughts can be gathered on its presence during this period of time. Thank you everyone for being so understanding while the tier goes through these changes, and in the event more suspects are to come I will decide what the best outcome is.

Colbur Berry Starmie


Colbur Berry on offensive Starmie seems to have had a bad review this week based on everyone's thoughts, but some positives were outlined. Daiyaga and masterball200 mentions that using this berry on Starmie is okay, but it gives up a lot of things in doing so. They both mention how the damage output is significantly lower compared to using Life Orb or the nuking power of Waterium Z. Daiyaga gives several examples of KOs and 2HKOs it misses out on such as Florges not being 2HKO'd or Hydreigon living an Ice Beam. However, Scizorphobic mentioned how Colbur Berry is a cool tech that helps revenge Krookodile and Hydreigon, though chip is required. Scizorphobic does mention the benefit of having no recoil is great for its longevity while being able to bluff it having the Waterium Z. He also mentions it isn't something you build around, but just gets incorporated on your team to patch weaknesses against some Pokemon like Krookodile. Finally, Scizorphobic mentions he finds the concept of Berry Starmie simply outclassed by Choice Scarf which can revenge the same threats without the cost of Starmie having to be worn down in the process. Overall there was very mixed opinions on this set, and every player found it outclassed by other items of choice.

Porygon2


Porygon2 recently got ranked on the VR and we got a lot of feedback on a few of the set's users tried. Daiyaga and Estarossa started off by testing a specially defensive Porygon2 set and overall they just found it to be extremely bulky, but that was about it. They both noticed it had the ability to check Pokemon like Hydreigon, Nidoking, and Gengar for example, but both Estarossa and Daiyaga found the main benefit of it was the ability Trace. Porygon2 was able to trace useful abilities like Regenerator, Water Absorb, and Flame Body which all had their added benefits to increase its longevity or prevent threats freely spamming attacks. Daiyaga does believe Analytic is also a good option mainly because it is much more consistent unlike Trace. Estarossa mentions that while Porygon2 is bulky, it is unable to handle set up users like Infernape and Celebi as they simply overwhelm it. Both Daiyaga and Estarossa mention this set has a lot of reliance on Eviolite to check what it needs to which can prove to be problematic with a metagame littered with Knock Off users. Overall, both players believe it was okay but there wasn't too much that sets it apart from other specially defensive Pokemon like Blissey.

Offensive Proygon2 was the other set used, as it has the niche of being able to run Z Conversion. The main advantage Scizorphobic, Daiyaga, and Estarossa mentioned was its ability to be an effective sweeper thanks to its ability to boost its Speed as well as always getting the guaranteed Special Attack boost. Scizorphobic mentioned even if Download never gave the boost you wanted you would at least reach +1, which is where Daiyaga mentioned that this is one of the inconsistencies of Porygon2. Both Daiyaga and Scizorphobic found this set to be very situational, in most cases they deemed it to be matchup reliant otherwise it could be considered dead weight in a few games. Daiyaga mentions while it does get the Speed boost it isn't enough to outpace common threats like Scarf Krookodile, Mega Aerodactyl, and everything base 115 and upwards. This is a huge issue as Daiyaga and Estarossa bring up how Porygon2 can only become two useful typing's in Electric or Ghost, meaning it can still get easily revenged by these Pokemon. Both Scizorphobic and Estarossa mention that Porygon2 really dislikes status, most specifically Toxic which will cripple its sweeping potential. All three users mention that while its access to BoltBeam coverage is nice, it does leave it with issues getting around Pokemon like Rotom-H, which wall it and cripple it with status. Another issue Scizorphobic and Estarossa stated was Proygon2 being extremely difficult to build around, as in not many cases does it just incorporate well unless explicitly building around it. Overall, the users still think it is a viable set which has given Porygon2 its niche, but it has a lot of issues to solidify itself as a staple.

Berry Terrakion


Berry Terrakion had some mixed opinions too, with players outlining advantages of it but overall, they found they preferred other options. Scizorphobic tested Babiri Berry on their Terrakion as he believes it is the best berry option you can run on it. Scizorphobic mentions the many benefits of using this berry as it can stop it being revenged by Scizor and also let it Swords Dance on a weakened Mega Aggron or Steelix. Daiyaga tried almost every berry they could think of with a total of 8 different kinds. To provide some as an example, Daiyaga tried Passho berry to help with Crawdaunt and Starmie, Shuca Berry for Mega Aerodactyl and Nidoqueen as well as Babiri similar to Scizorphobic. On the other hand, masterball200 tried using a more offensive berry in Salac to give it more sweeping potential as well as pinch berries like Iapapa to increase Terrakions longevity. While these berries have their benefits masterball200, Scizorphobic, and Daiyaga all believed there are much better items of choice. Choice Band and Z moves were said to be so much more favourable to allow Terrakion to abuse its huge Attack stat, plus it made it less susceptible to Knock Off which was annoying for berry variants, this being a point brought up by Scizorphobic.

That concludes the findings for the second Week!

Week 3 Picks:


Mimikyu @ Filler
Ability: Disguise
EVs: Filler
-
-
-
-



Chandelure @ Filler
Ability: Filler
EVs: Filler
IVs: 0 Atk
-
-
-
-



Volcanion @ Filler
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: Filler
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
-
-
-

Mimikyu is currently being suspected and I want you to experiment with the potential sets it could run. The main reasoning for including this for week 3 was mainly to gather information on it and to give you guys something new to try even if it stays banned. Mimikyu has a lot of potential on HO teams thanks to it providing them with an offensive Fairy-type capable of spin blocking. The combination of Ghost and Fairy is extremely dangerous to switch into, only giving it a few hard switch ins. Finally, it has access to the unique ability Disguise, which essentially gives it a free opportunity to set up or revenge a sweeper. I'm really interested to see what you guys provide about this Pokemon.

Chandelure has been in a very awkward spot for a while with common trends like Hydreigon and Pursuit users rising so much in usage. This has given Chandelure a lot of issues to try and shine in the current metagame. To put it bluntly we want to see your thoughts on Chandelure and its position in the meta and whether it is still worth using.

Volcanion is a Pokemon which is usually forgotten, but as of late it has been rising in usage. From my reqs run I saw a numerous amount of Volcanion on ladder and one of the reasons has been for the recent suggestion of Defog Volcanion. We want you to decide whether Volcanion is able to compress Defog onto its set effectively, due to how much utility it can provide in one slot. I will be really interested to see the thoughts on using Defog on this Pokemon.

As a separate note if anyone would like to suggest ideas for future weeks then please pm me through Smogon or Discord so I can consider implementing them into future weeks. Thank you again for everyone that contributes to keep this thread running.

**If mimikyu has not been added to the ladder yet, give it some time for it to be updated**

Sign up with a fresh USRW3 alt and post your results and thoughts on the Pokemon in question. This is mandatory to be eligible to be counted in the given week, read the OP for more information regarding the length of your findings. You are free to edit your signup post if your post count is a concern. For this week, the deadline will be Sunday, July 21th, at 11:59 pm GMT. My fellow host Sickist or I will check everyone's ladder scores then and decide the winner. Good luck everyone and happy researching!
 
USRW3 Dana
Gonna try all 3 as usual, it's been a long time since I used Chandy so looking forward to it.
  • Mimikyu's only saving grace really seems to be its Disguise, as everything else is either average or bad - 90 BS attack is okay for a SD user, but its lack of a powerful STAB really hurts, its bulk is passable, its typing is far from great in this metagame (mainly because it's a fairy neutral to dark, and the immunity to fighting isn't exactly useful when all the fighting types in tier bar Mienshao can obliterate you with their secondary STAB. Dragon immunity is still good though). As far as potential sets go, SD is the most obvious one, with either a Z-crystal to break fatter teams (Never-Ending Nightmare hits more stuff, while Let's Snuggle Forever has more base power but is resisted by more 'mons) or Life Orb to have a stronger Shadow Sneak. There are obviously other options like Drain Punch or Wood Hammer, but they don't strike me as useful coverage moves (Drain Punch doesn't cover anything you don't touch with Shadow Claw + Play Rough, Wood Hammer only serves for the stall MU but that's not common enough for me to consider Wood Hammer as viable). LO SD in particular can be extremely interesting in Spikes HO, as it fits both a cleaner and a spinblocker in the same slot, and the Spikes help Mimikyu by putting the opponent's mons in range of +2 Shadow Sneak. Choice Band Mimikyu doesn't seem good considering both its low attack stat and its (relatively) weak STABs on top of not being particularly fast and being frail without Disguise. A more support-oriented set could be interesting, using Will-o-Wisp combined with Disguise to make some threats (read : Scizor) slightly less of an issue for the rest of the team, but once again its lack of bulk and reliable recovery seem to hold that set back. Overall SD seems to be its best set, and even that set wouldn't be that good in the current meta. I kinda hope I'm wrong on that one.
  • Chandelure still has useful perks with its typing, but Dark-types being so prevalent really hurts it, as it can't deal with them as efficiently as the other Ghost-type breaker aka Gengar due to Chandy's lack of Focus Blast and base 80 speed leaving it outsped by Krook and Hydra even if they don't have a Choice scarf. Substitute+Calm Mind can certainly put in work against fatter teams, but SpD Pyuk gaining trction means it can't break stall as it used to. Specs probably does a fine job at breaking stuff in a more direct manner compared to CM Chandelure, but it's incredibly vulnerable to Pursuit trapping, Choice scarf Chandelure is still pretty fast, but being outsped by base 145+ mons (Beedrill-M, Sceptile-M, Aerodactyl-M) sucks, and it's still trapped by Scarf Krook. I'll probably try more defensive sets as well, probably something like Substitute/Pain Split/Will-o-Wisp/Shadow Ball, Sub+3 Attacks might put in work as well (or Sub+2 Attacks, with a support move in the last slot)
  • Volcanion seems to be an okay defogger thanks to its typing, hitting on the special side (so shit like Aggron can't hope of taking a hit) and just faring well against most hazard setters I can think of (Gligar, Aggron, Steelix, Rhyperior, Diancie, Swampert, Cobalion, Stakataka, Empoleon if you're running Earth Power/Focus Blast). Lack of recovery and being itself weak to rocks really sucks though.
 
Last edited:

Notily

dirt rich
usmrw3 kife

chandy and maybe mimikyu

chandy is in a pretty weird spot as mentioned, trends like spd pyuk means sub cm's stall mu isnt what it used to be and of course darks and pursuit being everywhere makes choiced sets difficult to justify. one set that i havent seen mentioned is wisp tect, which i think has the most merit in this meta. from looking at some uupl replays it looks like the prep for ghosts is centered around gengar as its been the only relevant special ghost for a while. choiced dark type + a fat ground or priority like sciz seems most common. being able to scout the 50/50s vs the darks w/ tect and break through gligar and hippo with fire blast makes me think chandy could be effective as a breaker vs those kinds of structures.

wisp might not even be all that necessary but it's movepool is pretty sparse and its stabs are pretty good coverage as is so idk what you would want to slot in over it.

mimikyu kinda looks like it'll be dog ass
 
I'mma do this early because I wanna focus in on my other ladder challenges (AG CLC and ULT), but whatever, let's go!


Mimikyu
Mimikyu is the center of the current suspect. On paper, it's not particularly strong, possessing mediocre stats overall and its STABs (Shadow Claw and Play Rough) aren't very strong and the most reliable, respectively (that stupid 90% accuracy). However, its Disguise ability allows it to nullify the first hit it takes, allowing it to potentially setup or (if it chooses to run such moves) status a foe, and it can be incredibly useful in helping it take out major threats to teams, like here:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-943924441 (Mimikyu takes a Knock Off and beats a weakened Zeraora, which heavily threatened the Pokemon I had out at the time; if Latias hadn't missed her Draco Meteor, this could've been entirely avoided)

Its access to Shadow Sneak allows it to pick off weakened Pokemon:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-944414264 (I don't know how I didn't expect Weakness Policy Metagross, but it KO'd Bisharp only to be Shadow Sneaked by Mimikyu)

Mimikyu seems to be bringing its tried and true Swords Dance set with it, usually equipping either a Z-Crystal or a Life Orb. This allows it to break middle-game or sweep late-game, once the opposing team is weakened. Adamant is the recommended nature, as Jolly, while still hitting a respectable 320 speed, loses out on a lot of power. Running Jolly may have been the reason I lost this game:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-943928107 (Had I ran Adamant or LO, I would've put Aerodactyl into range of Latias' Psychic, allowing her to clean the game)

Z-Crystal Mimikyu allows it to have a one-time breaking option that allows it to place dents in some teams and deliver quick KOs, however, those dents aren't as big as other wallbreakers because of Mimikyu's mediocre attack. Ghostium Z hits more targets neutrally and super effectively compared to Mimikyu's signature Mimikium Z, but the latter hits harder. Also, Z-Crystals lose out on the power that LO provides, so if you're gonna run a Z-Crystal, you might as well run Adamant, 'cause Jolly w/ Z-Crystal is pretty weak compared to other breakers and sweepers. But it does most certainly help, for example:
+2 252+ Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Cresselia: 500-590 (112.6 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO, which was what happened in this battle: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-943926924

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-943931020 (Mimikyu takes out a Mega Aerodactyl that was poised to clean the remainder of the team, and cleans the team up)

I've attempted to use Taunt, which can help stallbreak. It especially helped me take out this Quagsire:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-945207392 (granted I should've ran Mimikium Z, but that flew over my head for some reason)

However, it's not the best stallbreaker out there, so it should stick to sweeping.

Every team I used Mimikyu on (except for the last one I used) utilized Spikes. Mimikyu needs entry hazard support to sweep, and Stealth Rock is sometimes not enough, which is why I ran Spikes alongside Bisharp to keep it on the opponent's side. Sticky Web also helps Mimikyu outspeed things it normally wouldn't, such as Haxorus, which threatens to KO w/ Poison Jab:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-946810115

I have contemplated on defensive sets, but those just don't work out well, and are outclassed. There are better defensive Fairy-types in the tier, and there are better users of Will-o-Wisp as well.

tl;dr: Mimikyu can sweep if given the opportunity, but the issues with getting that lie in the fact that it just has mediocre power in general, and thus is outclassed. Then again, it must not be underestimated, because with the right team support and conditions, it can and will do its job.


Chandelure


They say that Chandelure has fallen off, and it is understandable why. Pursuit and Knock Off are all over the place. Primarina and Hydreigon are big mons in the tier, as are Terrakion and Mega Aerodactyl. Chandelure's base 80 speed doesn't help it alot, leaving it outsped and threatened by Stone Edge Infernape, Nihilego, and Terrakion without a Choice Scarf and Mega Aerodactyl, Scarf Krookodile and Mega Beedrill with one. It's also weak to Stealth Rock. It does have one of the highest base Sp.Atk. stats in the game, but it still faces competition as a wallbreaker. Infernape's faster, and Gengar isn't as susceptible to entry hazards. However, I believe that scarf and SubCM can still work if given the opportunity (at least Scarf, I haven't been able to competently give SubCM Chandelure a chance, however, I have used the set back in my early days of playing UU, however, I don't have replays of it in action). Chandelure can still switch into non-Stone Edge variants of Infernape (even without Flash Fire, which is actually pretty cool), like here:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-943792160

Scarf variants are meant to revenge kill opposing Pokemon. They run Trick to help cripple defensive Pokemon and scout for Z-Crystals and (somehow lack of items), and Memento can help other Pokemon, such as Terrakion in the previous replay, setup easier.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-943911797 (Chandelure revenge kills a boosted Latias and Linoone)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-943914799 (Chandelure utilizing Trick to rid Gligar of its Eviolite; Gligar is KO'd rather easily later on)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-943918723 (Chandelure using Trick to scout)

Another set recommended by someone else was Will-o-Wisp + Protect, which can help cripple physically offensive mons and can be used in conjunction with Hex to deal more damage than the usual Shadow Ball. But if it was going to have any use, it would need to have Chandelure invest heavily in its physical defense, which can leave it open to a lot of damage from specially offensive mons. But here is a battle with it:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-946797538

To be fair, I should've tried more Chandelure sets, but then again, I have other commitments, so this is what we have. Not to mention I already have 17 battles saved for this week alone!

tl;dr: Yeah, Chandelure really has fallen off, due to the numerous threats that can check it. I wanted to use one of its old sets but couldn't make it work too well. However, if the opportunity is right, Chandelure can do some work, and help win games.
 

Notily

dirt rich

Chandelure @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
- Taunt

speed is for tsareena, max speed works too if you want to tie w/ togekiss

https://pokepast.es/26fc69ef7182cbfc

this is the set that i tested the most, and while it does have its issues i do think it has potential. chandelure's defensive utility isnt half bad, checking np ape, edge-less coba and most scizor sets. i think its also worth noting that its a fire type able to check qa sciz which is seeing more usage on webs and spikes ho as of late. most of the issues i had with it were in the builder. it was pretty difficult to support without the team having some kind of glaring issue, usually to cm waters (fuck cune) or just a matter of fitting the resists you need without stacking rocks weaknesses.

taunt ended up being a better option than wisp on this set as it allowed it to pressure sylv and florges better, who were the main switch ins when i was playing vs ghost resist krook or after protecting on a hydrei u-turn. i also got some usage out of protect to scout double switches vs some pivots and to scout vs specs primarina which was the switch in occasionally. unfortunately i dont have any replays of it abusing protect as i mostly used it in low ladder where people were using bad stuff.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-946587937 - taunt allows chandy to break through florges


Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Icy Wind
- Destiny Bond

Krookodile @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Mimikyu @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak

Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Protect

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Quick Attack
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance

Feraligatr @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Liquidation
- Ice Beam
- Agility
- Swords Dance

mimikyu surprised me as i thought it would be trash but its actually pretty effective as a revenge killer and offers a lot of utility for ho. vs fat it can definitely struggle though you can create opportunities for it to do something in those match ups if you run z ghost, but it really shines vs opposing ho. disguise basically gives you an extra sac which can give you a pretty big advantage late game if you can keep the disguise unbroken until then. while the z move is relatively weak, z + sneak is usually enough to get a kill vs most offensive mons. it can clean if circumstances line up, but for the most part i think its performs more consistently if you use it as a revenge killer rather than a sweeper. also while its defenses are bad, they're just high enough for it to live some hits from full meaning you dont necessarily need disguise up in order for it to do something (ie living krook eq from full)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-947314751 - mimikyu's able to pick up a kill while keeping disguise up early game which makes the game very straightforward from there
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-947327658 - wins the tie vs opposing mimikyu and has enough bulk to eat the plasma fists from zera and kill w/ z ghost

tldr i think chandelure has potential with taunt + protect but i wasnt able to build something solid around it, mimikyu offers ho some unique tools and is real good vs opposing ho
 

Estarossa

moo?
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Battle Simulator Moderator
C&C Leader
For mimikyu, I will be focusing on two different sets that I've been playing with this week, a standard SD variant, and a trapper variant with infestation and curse. I havent really had time to play around with the other pokemon this week unfortunately.

SD Mimikyu



Click sprites for team importable.
Mimikyu @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Disguise
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw
- Play Rough

SD Mimikyu provides a nice niche to HO teams, as it provides two key niches: a secondary spinblocker, and a get out of jail free card with disguise.

Due to its already decent speed, and its weak base 90 attack power, I decided to put it on a spikes HO team for this, to help it secure the kills it struggles to get.

Mimikyu can act as a nice spinblocker for these sort of teams, as it can swap in on pokemon such as starmie, blastoise and tentacruel and beat them provided it doesn't get scald burnt or crit, as it has respectable spdef.

Due to disguise, it is able to provide the ability to safely revenge kill something should it still be intact, or just use it as a free opportunity to SD.

While all of this is good, it has some problems. Firstly, it is a fairy type that doesn't resist dark, which makes hydreigon a problem (which is also slightly faster than you even without scarf). Secondly, it is fairly weak even after a swords dance, failing to deal with pokemon such as mega aggron/steelix, and suffering from its low base power moves. Lastly, while it offers the key niches mentioned above, it takes up the slot of something more standard such as a defiant user from the team, meaning you have to be more careful around defoggers.



Trapper Mimikyu



Click sprites for team importable.
Mimikyu @ Ghostium Z / Iapapa Berry
Ability: Disguise
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe (252 HP for iapapa)
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infestation
- Taunt / Substitute
- Curse
- Protect

Trapper mimikyu is a neat alternative set for mimikyu, using a combination of infestation to trap pokemon and curse to slowly damage them. On this team, I used a ghostium + taunt version as it allows you to break through bulky pokemon with recovery better.

If infestation is used on a swap into a pokemon such as mega aggron, you are able to trade your disguise for it's life, allowing you to beat some of mimikyu's common counters, and still curse something later in the game.

Z-Curse offers a one time full free heal. If used against an opponent already cursed, this won't remove 50% HP from you again, otherwise the full heal will happen before the curse.

This set allows you to deal with common answers to mimikyu, in pokemon such as mega aggron/steelix, amoongus, gligar etc. It however doesn't have the same offensive presence, and will only fully trade for one pokemon guaranteed. However against stalls it may be able to trade for a few more thanks to taunt. As long as it remains alive it is still able to curse something later in the game however, and if the first pokemon removed was the only true counter to it, it might be able to remove a second.

The underlying issue with this set is just how difficult it is to build around. It offers very little defensive utility compared to trappers such as slowbro, but doesn't really have the offensive presence to be on a HO team. Being a fairy type that can't deal with hydreigon is a far bigger issue here than it was on a HO team too, forcing you to either stack fairies or rely on dealing with it through mass bulk. It also takes up a z-crystal if you choose to run the ghostium variant, while its only recovery can be knocked off through disguise if you run the iapapa variant.
 
Almost forgot to write that post whoops
Don't have a ton of things to say for this week's picks so let's get right into it. Also I'll try putting everything into bullet points to make it easier to read.

Mimikyu
Sets I tried




  • Offensively, Mimikyu has some nice qualities : Ghost/fairy is a powerful STAB combination with nothing common in the tier resisting both at the same time, and Shadow Sneak is a pretty powerful priority in this tier, as most pokémon faster than Mimikyu are either weak or neutral to it (only 5 pokémon are ranked in the UU VR, outspeed Jolly Mimikyu and resist Shadow Sneak, those pokémon being Hydreigon, Absol-M, Pidgeot-M, Houndoom-M and Sharpedo-M).
  • Defensively, Mimikyu's bulk is okay for an offensive mon. Nothing crazy good, not high enough to survive powerful attacks from powerhouses of the tier (Mamoswine, Primarina, Terrakion) even with defensive investments, but still good enough to not die from any defensive mon's attack. Ghost/Fairy is far from a great typing as well, as it doesn't grant any useful resistances in this metagame, but it doesn't have many common weaknesses either, and the 3 immunities are handy to get setup opportunities against choice-locked Hydreigon/Latias/Infernape/Terrakion/Bewear, on top of providing spinblocking for a team.
  • Disguise is a fantastic ability, guaranteeing Mimikyu can only be 2HKO by all pokémon in the tier, meaning it can alwyas get an attack off if it's brought in safely. This is especially useful for Hyper Offensive teams, as sacs are pretty important for these teams, and Mimikyu basically gives an additional sac if you can keep its Disguise. However, its Disguise is so important you can't let Mimikyu take any hit before it's ready to do ... whatever you want it to do, meaning Mimikyu, for the most part, doesn't really have any defensive utility, making building with it a bit annoying.
  • Mimikyu's low 90 Attack combined with the low power of its STABs (especially Shadow Claw only having 70BP, and 140 when turned into a Z-move - barely stronger than common attacks such as Close Combat(120) or Fire Blast(110)) means it struggles to break down most bulky mons if they stayed at high amounts of health, even if Mimikyu is at +2 ( Gligar, Amoonguss, Aggron-M, Steelix-M, Nidoqueen, Volcanion, Scizor, Rotom-Heat, Silvally-Steel, Swampert, Seismitoad, Empoleon, Alomomola and Moltres can all survive +2 Adamant Life Orb attacks if they're at full health, for example), meaning they can easily break down its Disguise and make it prone to being revenge killed by anything faster than it and doesn't die to +2 Shadow Sneak (which is a lot of mons so I won't list them, basically if it's not weak to Ghost and outspeeds Mimikyu, it can revenge kill it). The fat Steel-type megas and broken shroom Amoonguss deserve a particular mention, as Aggron and Steelix don't care about anything Mimikyu throws at them and destroy it with Heavy Slam/Gyro Ball, while Amoongus can annihilate all of its efforts at setting up thanks to Clear Smog.
  • However, like I said earlier, Mimikyu's bulk is high enough to not be killed from full by most of the pokémon I listed previously (the only ones that actually threaten Mimikyu out are Moltres (assuming it's offensive), the Steels not named Silvally/Empoleon, and Amoonguss. All the other ones have to phase Mimikyu out (Empoleon), Toxic it (Empoleon, Alomomola), rely on a Scald burn (all the Waters) or can't deal with Mimikyu after that), meaning it doesn't have many issues with getting a second Swords Dance off, and once at that point, well ... either you have a healthy Cobalion/Scizor/fat steel/fast Dark-type to stop it dead in its tracks, or you gotta pray it's not Adamant LO and doesn't kill one of your faster mons with Shadow Sneak.
  • This makes SD Mimikyu a set that can be hard to use, but when you know what you're doing with it (which I'm not lol) it can be an extremely deadly tool.
  • As far as team support goes, lures to Steel-types like Fire Blast Altaria-M, Gigavolt Havoc Latias, All-Out Pummeling Scizor or simply using Magneton is extremely useful for Mimikyu. Spikes support is also great to put the various walls in range of Mimikyu's attacks, and Sticky Web can partially patch up Mimikyu's speed issue.
  • Swords Dance Mimikyu is by far the most consistent and useful set of all, as it provides a Wincon, a potential breaker, a stop to some dreadful sweepers/Breakers like Altaria-Mega, Latias, Terrakion, Sharpedo-Mega or Starmie and speed control.
  • Adamant Life Orb SD Mimikyu seems to be the best variation of this set, trading some of the breaking power of Ghostium Z variants for much stronger attacks all around, which is especially useful for Shadow Sneak to kill faster pokémon like Aerodactyl-Mega from full (ok it's a roll, guaranteed after SR damage but still a roll from 100%).
  • Infestation + Curse Mimikyu is a nifty set that lets you get a guaranteed kill on any fat mon that lacks phazing or a pivoting move, but that's litteraly the only thing it can do , and if your opponent's answer to Mimikyu is like Scizor then Mimikyu's almost deadweight. Although I gotta admit, Curse can also be used to stop some mons from setting up as the 25% chip at each turn is much heavier than, say, burn's 6% (also you have to switch out to get rid of it, so no Refresh shenanigans or shit like that). Ghostium Z is the best item on this set, allowing Mimikyu to fully heal with Z-Curse (allowing it to trap a second pokémon if needed - in the stall MU for example) while reducing damage from stray Knock Offs, while Iapapa Berry is a nice alternative if you want the Z-move on another pokémon.
  • BU mono-attacker was a set I theorized could 1v1 the bulky steels, and while it kinda does, +6 Shadow Sneak isn't strong enough to do anything from there. Also Steelix-Mega has Curse so it doesn't care about the burn, and Aggron-Mega sometimes run either Toxic or Roar so you screwed as well. Oh, and crits are a thing.
  • TR Mimikyu is pretty much guaranteed to set the TR up thanks to Mental Herb + Disguise, and WoW support is pretty useful to neutralize some annoying mons (read : Scizor), but it doesn't have any momentum-grabbing move like U-turn/Volt Switch/Parting Shot/Memento/Healing Wish so you can't bring other mons in safely, and Mimikyu is too fast to abuse the Trick Room by itself.
  • Swords Dance + Will-o-wisp is honestly a pretty nice option to cripple shit like Zor/Aggron/Steelix/Cobalion/Bisharp/Gligar while keeping the utility of the basic Swords Dance set, but picking what move to give up is hard because Mimikyu needs all of Shadow Claw, Shadow Sneak and Play Rough to consistently break. Best thing I could do was give up Shadow Claw and pair Mimikyu with Magneton (no I don't have that team anymore, fuck Magneton), but it's definitely not as consistent as just using Shadow Claw. I'll probably look into it more even once the week is over 'cause I really feel like I missed something about that set and it's pissing me off.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-946175069 - Mimikyu gets the TR up and burns a Crawdaunt, but the lack of Play Rough meant I couldn't hit it
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-944151805 - Example of Mimikyu getting a second SD cause the pokémon in front couldn't OHKO it
Chandelure
Sets I tried


  • Current metagame is a mixed bag for Chandelure. On one hand, pokémon it can abuse like Steel-types or Amoonguss are extremely common, on the other hand Pursuit trappers that don't care about it like Krookodile and Aerodactyl-Mega are more and more popular, on top of Hydreigon still being a top pokémon. This often makes it a hit-or-miss mon, where it can tear apart some teams right from the preview and get quickly destroyed in the next match.
  • However, the Pursuit-trapping issue, while still huge, can be mitigated by one simple thing : neither Krook nor Aerodactyl-M want to take certain attacks from Chandelure (specs Fire Blast for Krook, specs Shadow Ball or Never-Ending Nightmare for Aero), and non-choiced sets are pretty much always using Substitute, allowing Chandelure to switch out without too much trouble.
  • Ghost/Fire is a good typing both offensively (meaning it can get away with running only STAB moves on choiced sets) and defensively (resistances to Grass, Fire, Steel, Bug and an immunity to fighting are all useful in this metagame), although it's weak to pretty common types of attacking moves.
  • These resistances allow Chandelure to easily switch into various pokémon like Infernape, Lucario, Scizor, Cobalion, Tsareena, Bronzong, Chesnaught, Florges, Sylveon, and it can also switch into Aggron-Mega and Steelix-Mega if you're feeling risky. This gives Chandelure nice opportunities to come in and wreck havoc or put a sub up.
  • The popularity of SpDef Pyuk in stall makes SubCM's stallbreaking job harder, but it can still pull it off as it doesn't need a ton of chip for Pyukumuku to be in range of Shadow Ball+Never-Ending Nightmare.
  • Substitute+Calm Mind is crazy good against some balance teams, but the lack of recovery on top of Sub cutting down your HP and weakness to all forms of entry hazards means you get worn down ridiculously quickly.
  • Specs is also an excellent balance breaker, and it also has a nice MU against bulky offense relying too much on Amoonguss, as Sleep Talk allows it to freely come into Amoonguss (except for Foul Play variants).
  • Scarf provides decent speed control, but being choice-locked, vulnerable to Pursuit trapping while being slower than scarf Krookodile and Aerodactyl-Mega is a big no in my book. One redeeming factor though is its ability Infiltrator, which is really useful with all the Screens HO running around (also you're guaranteed to RK substitute Gengar, which is a pretty nice perk considering how annoying that set can be for most teams). Oh, and Memento is nice i guess to help a teammate's attempt at setting up, but I never really got to use it.
  • LO Sub+Pain Split lets this set pressure stall decently without relying on setting up like SubCM, meaning Pyukumuku isn't as solid of an answer, and it provides Chandelure with half-decent recovery on top of giving it a way to hurt Hydreigon if you get the Pain Split off at the right time.
  • Colbur Berry + Will-o-wisp is a nice way to get a burn off on Krookodile and (maybe) Aerodactyl-Mega, but I found it pretty hard to capitalize on these pokémon being crippled. It's just ... too specific, I guess ?
  • Trapper set is useless most of the time simply because the mons that usually switch into Chandelure outspeed and OHKO it, so it can't get the trapping shenanigans off before dying (which is honestly one of the dumbest flaw ever for a trapper set). It can still remove some fat special walls like Blissey, Florges or Sylveon, but I just didn't find this set worth running compared to the simple SubCM.
Chandelure cleans some screens HO after Feraligatr and Krook are aliven't
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-946943079 - Chandelure had free switches in half of opponent's team there, but was consistently forced out by the other half
Defog Volcanion

Set

  • Volcanion has a pretty solid MU against most hazard setters in the tier, losing "only" to Terrakion, Z-Ground Krookodile (Earthquake doesn't kill from full), Nidoking, Nihilego, Seismitoad and Toxic Empoleon
  • Volcanion also finds enough opportunities to come in and defog against 'mons like Scizor, Amoonguss (if something has been Spore'd beforehand) or Tsareena, making it a pretty solid Defogger overall
  • However, being itself weak to all forms of entry hazards on top of not having any reliable recovery is pretty rough, and means Volcanion has to Defog as soon as possible if it doesn't want to have a very bad time.
  • This set also has the big issue of being easily exploitable by the various dragons this tier has, as you can't really fit Toxic into it (except over Sludge Wave, but that makes the Primarina MU worse)
tl;dr
  • Mimikyu is a decent pokémon. It's not overwhelming in any way, and it has very exploitable weaknesses, but with the right support and some smart plays it can be devastating. 5/10
  • Chandelure's issues in the metagame, while still pretty obvious, don't really outweigh its qualities, and it is still a pretty solid mon that can put a lot of work. 6/10
  • Volcanion is a decent defogger, its MU against hazard setter is pretty solid overall , but there are still a handful of hazard setters that it can't deal with, and it invites some scary pokémon to come in freely. 6/10
Wish I had saved better replays
 
Congratulations to Notily for winning the third week! As customary I have gathered up all the thoughts from everyone who has posted. Unfortunately, we only have one post for Volcanion due to many participants not posting their thoughts in time, so if needed I will interject a few of my thoughts.

Mimikyu


Mimikyu recently got suspected and here is everyone's thoughts on it, I was really interested to see these myself. Mimikyu has a really nice STAB combination of Ghost/Fairy which is amazing for it as nothing in the tier is capable of resisting both as Daiyaga mentioned. Most of our researchers mentioned how Mimikyu is not very strong as it has a mediocre Attack stat. This being further worsened by having a weak STAB move in Shadow Claw and Play Rough having the potential to be unreliable as masterball200 stated. Notily and Daiyaga do mention it has enough bulk to live a few hits from Pokemon like Moltres and Infernape for example. masterball200, Daiyaga, and Estarossa all believe its key niche is its ability Disguise, which allows Mimikyu to have a free setup opportunity or potentially revenge kill a threat. Notily believing Mimikyu's ability to revenge kill is a huge deal for it, as it adds a lot of utility to many hyper offense teams. Estarossa and Daiyaga also mention it can have a niche as a spinblocker for HO teams; however, Daiyaga also mentions Mimikyu is very reliant on Disguise so does not want to risk switching in without a free pivot most of the time. Mimikyu best fits in the HO vs HO matchups as it provides a team with an extra sac, which is a huge deal for these types of teams as stated by Notily and Daiyaga.

masterball200 mentions that Mimikyu very much prefers the use of Ghostium Z or Life Orb on its Swords Dance set to be able to revenge kill something and break more effectively. They also believe that Adamant is a lot better for the additional power than trying to outspeed Pokemon like Lucario and Moltres. masterball200 also mentions that Ghostium Z is a lot better than its signature Z move due to it hitting more targets like Steel-types, but Mimikium Z does have the bonus of being stronger. Estarossa, Daiyaga, and Notily all mention how Mimikyu is fairly weak even after a Swords Dance with it doing little to Pokemon like Mega Aggron, Hippowdon, and Amoonguss, etc. Notily does mention that the combination of a boosted Z move into Sneak is enough to revenge kill most offensive threats though. masterball200, Daiyaga, and Estarossa mention Mimikyu greatly appreciates having Spikes support to break effectively and revenge key threats to make up for its weak Attack stat. Many users tried a lot of cool sets ranging from using Taunt and Wood Hammer for the stall matchup, while Daiyaga and Estarossa used a trapper set consisting of Infestation + Curse. This set allowing it to remove the bulky Steel-types in Mega Aggron and Mega Steelix. However, this is a one time use as is reliant on Disguise to so so and lacks any presence afterward. Overall most people find Mimikyu to be fairly underwhelming in the damage department, but it does provide a lot for many HO teams now.

Chandelure


Chandelure is in a very interesting position in the meta as it loves Pokemon like Amoonguss and Steel-types rising in usage, but the meta is filled with Pursuit users like Krookodile and Mega Aerodactyl, while Hydreigon also remains a strong threat in the tier as Daiyaga and masterball200 mention. While Chandelure has an amazing Special Attack stat it faces so much competition for the reasons above and due to its mediocre Speed as masterball200 mentions. Daiyaga mentions the main advantage is that the Pursuit users do not appreciate switching into its STAB moves, especially if it is running a Choice Specs, with it also being able to run Substitute to safely switch out if needed. Daiyaga and Notily mention that Chandelure has a really nice typing offensively and defensively, as it is able to check a lot of threats like Scizor, Infernape, and Lucario, etc. However, Chandelure has a few other issues due to SpD Pyukumuku rising in usage making its Sub + CM set less effective, as it needs a LOT of chip to break through it as Daiyaga mentions. Notily also mentions Chandelure is a very weird Pokemon to build around and had issues supporting it well in the current meta. Many users tried different sets, but a few were Notily using a set with taunt to annoy Pokemon like Florges, in conjunction with Protect to scout what Hydriegon locks itself into for example. On the other hand, masterball200 prefers Chandelure as a Choice Scarf user in the current meta as it can revenge kill key threats and annoy bulkier walls with Trick. Overall, players agree Chandelure has fallen off but can still have its niche on a few teams.

Defog Volcanion


Daiyaga mentions Defog Volcanion has a very good MU against the tier's hazard setters, only really losing to Pokemon like Terrakion, Krookodile, and Nihilego for example which are faster than it. However, neither of them are able to safely switch into it. Otherwise, Volcanion only loses to Seismitoad and Empoleon which can shrug off its coverage and beat it 1on1. Volcanion finds plenty of opportunities to Defog as it is a great answer to Pokemon like Scizor and can force out Amoonguss, for example, that fear being KO'd. The biggest downside according to Daiyaga is it also being weak to Stealth Rock, while having no reliable recovery. This was eased by Daiyaga trying out sets with pinch berries similar to Rotom-H. Daiyaga also states that many of the tier's Dragon-types like Latias and Hydreigon that can shrug off its coverage and lack of a boosting item. I personally think Volcanion is also good as a Defog user because it does not sap up momentum unlike other removers being Gligar. This set only really competing with Starmie as an entry hazard remover on more offensive teams. Volcanion also provides a check to Primarina and a Water immunity which is amazing for offensive teams that cannot afford to have a slot to pressure them. Overall, Daiyaga and myself believe Volcanion is a decent Defog user and is worth exploring.

That concludes the findings for the third week!

Week 4 Picks:


Feraligatr
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: Filler
-
-
-
-



Muk-Alola
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: Filler
-
-
-
-



Hoopa
Ability: Magician
EVs: Filler
IVs: 0 Atk
-
-
-
-


Feraligatr is rising in usage recently especially with the surge in dual screen teams. This being clear with its recent rising in the VR slate by a substantial amount. Feraligatr is a very difficult Pokemon to reliably counter thanks to its wide range of coverage to break past many of its conventional checks. It also has respectable bulk to set up easily, maybe even allowing it to do so outside of dual screens. I want you to test out and provide your thoughts on Feraligatr and potentially try out a few different sets on it also.

Muk-Alola has fallen out of the meta significantly with many of the Pokemon it used to check falling off too. Muk-Alola is still able to trap common Psychic-types like Latias and Celebi and with the latter no longer running the coverage to break it maybe Muk still has a niche on a few teams. I want you to determine whether Muk is any good in the meta and is still worth using, maybe trying a few different sets and coverage options on it as well.

Hoopa got added back to the VR a few weeks ago, but I think this trickster is worth exploring further. This being notable from the NBT thread having a lot of cool submissions of potential sets it can run. Hoopa has a monstrous Special Attack stat in combination with Nasty Plot allowing it to set itself apart from other Ghost-types as a decent stallbreaker. While this is the case, Hoopa is extremely weak to Pursuit with it being 4x weak to Dark moves. I want you to test this out and determine whether this crippling weakness to such a common move in our meta is detrimental for its success. Alléhooparing!

As a separate note if anyone would like to suggest ideas for future weeks then please pm me through Smogon or Discord so I can consider implementing them into future weeks. Thank you again for everyone that contributes to keep this thread running.

Sign up with a fresh USRW4 alt and post your results and thoughts on the Pokemon in question. This is mandatory to be eligible to be counted in the given week, read the OP for more information regarding the length of your findings. You are free to edit your signup post if your post count is a concern. For this week, the deadline will be Sunday, July 28th, at 11:59 pm GMT+1. My fellow host Sickist or I will check everyone's ladder scores then and decide the winner. Good luck everyone and happy researching!
 
Mimikyu
Where to begin with this mon. Mimikyu for me is more of a cleaner on the likes of mega-sharpedo rather than a breaker. Its base 90 attack is laughable and some defensive mons have more attack stat than this little guy. Although those defensive mons don't have the speed of mimikyu. Getting sidetracked. I used a jolly variant to be able to outspeed non-scarf krookodiles to be able to hit it hard with play rough and being able to outspeed rotom-appliances and nidoking. Although the lack of power of jolly is noticeable when comparing it to adamant's higher power.
Team used:
https://pokepast.es/bfa1aceede59b829
Set used:
Mimikyu @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Wood Hammer
- Play Rough
- Swords Dance
I used wood hammer over shadow sneak as there were some times where I couldnt break through bulky waters and dont want to bring celebi out due to hazards in the field and the amount of mons that could come in on celebi's attacks, particularly hydreigon, was everywhere and I dont want to risk chip damage as my celebi was easy to wear down so I chose a kind-off bait set for mimikyu, albeit not a good reason for it. I played some games with shadow sneak instead of wood hammer and I have to say that I like wood hammer more rather than shadow sneak due to most mons not being in shadow sneak range after a +2 ghostium z shadow claw or rather its hard checks in powerful defensive mons such as the steels or just particularly super defensive mons. I guess this is also compounded by the fact that I see mimikyu as breaker and not a cleaner. Which with its moves and attack prowess, really emphasizes that this mon is a cleaner and not a breaker. Ghostium could be replaced by Life Orb as the increased power of z-moves could be used by other more powerful mons instead of mimikyu, which over the course of my tries on mimikyu, couldn't even break them. I don't think mimikyu is bad by any means, I just thought it would be amazing with its ability. I guess a not so good, by my standards on a breaker, attack stat really hampers a mon even with an ability as disguise. Which I think is a great ability. On another note, it may also be because this mimikyu set might not work on balance teams. Maybe on a HO team, mimikyu could shine brighter. But as it stands, I think that mimikyu is hard to fit on balance teams just for the fact that it isnt amazing defensively or offensively stats-wise.
2nd team:
https://pokepast.es/5349066c31acbfec
Set used:
Mimikyu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Trick
- Destiny Bond
- Will-O-Wisp
- Play Rough
This set is more of a "for fun" set for me. I've had some moments when I killed unsuspecting mons, usually its hard counters such as mega-aggron, mega-lix and faster mons and they got hit with an unexpected destiny bond and them losing a big part of their defensive core suddenly made for my cleaners/breakers to pick the team apart or offensive core that damage my cleaners or breakers too much even after screens. Mimikyu has actually some nice utility or supporting moves in will-o-wisp, taunt and destiny bond. I believe that mimikyu could be an OK but not great supporting mons due to its stats but its disguise ability could be seen as a semi focus sash and since i had scarf equipped, could take a 1 for 1 on unassuming faster mons that threaten my breakers. Trick is also a nice utility move against more stally teams. The feeling of tricking scarf on a blissey or alomomola and hampering their ability as clerics never stops making me laugh. I chose will-o-wisp on my last slot just to help in supporting my cleaners as well to make sure they receive even less damage from physical attackers and also on azelf and cresselia as well as they have some weak ass physical defense. I also had more wins using this team vs the other team which makes me believe that mimikyu fits better on hyper offense teams than on balance teams although maybe supportive mimikyu could be used on balance teams but I never had the time to experiment on it really well. I chose play rough on the last slot as it is mimikyus strongest STAB attack.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top