Metagame USM Ubers Metagame & Sets Discussion (Check Post #107)

Cynara

Banned deucer.
Custap berry benefits Wobbufett teams the most, aiding the trap + setup mons teams Wobbufett usually finds itself in providing Wobbufett with the ability to either use Custap to trade with an opposing setup threat using Destiny Bond in a pinch or aiding with its own utilities more effectively such as getting off an Encore, could prove game changing and open the window of opportunities for setup. Custap Skarmory could have some small niche too that is worth exploring, to get hazards up in a pinch where it otherwise would not be able to, such as weakened vs Mega Gengar or even surprise kill a weakened target with Brave Bird. I can't really think of much outside of this, and Im probably overlooking something.

Furthermore there is a set I want to quickly touch on.

Arceus-Ground @ Groundium Z / Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Magic Coat

Not anything exciting by any means. Swords Dance Arceus-Ground is usually very threatening to offense teams and Magic Coat allows you to completely be the bane of their existence, with Sticky Webs being a prominent playstyle and Smeargle sets have adapted to Substitute Arceus-Ground, with move options such as Whirlwind. Bouncing back Sticky Webs can prove very damaging to a Sticky Webs offense as they rarely carry any hazard control, making the matchup suddenly in your favour instead of theirs if you play the offense vs offense game and the lack of Balance and Stall teams in the current metagame. I don't find Substitute very useful and usually prefer Recover as a utility slot. Magic Coat is worth considering if you're concerned with your Hyper offense lead matchups such as Smeargle or Deoxys-Speed and allows you to take advantage at lead.
 
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Just wanted to bring this back up into the light as its been taking the lives of WAY more mons than I expected. It 2HKO's almost every variant of Pdon and Necrozma DM, and versus teams without those mons it gets chances to set up rocks or toxic problematic mons. I wish I had replays but I've just been plowing through games with no thought to anything but glory and honor.

It faces the same issues it always has, being OHKO's by the entire metagame and desperately needing hazards removed. It can only be put in via smart doubles and revenge switches. However it has given me really good results lately and I think its worth considering if your team uses Pogre or Xerneas.
 

bigtalk

Banned deucer.
I'll share some cheese I used for fun recently.



Weezing @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Haze

This is a decent check to non-Psyshock Geomancy Xerneas. It can tank +2 Moonblast, Haze, barely tank another Moonblast (due to the Black Sludge recovery, so unfortunately Shed Shell is not an option) and get a Pain Split off. From there you can freely setup tspikes which teammates can abuse. I paired this with the Zyg+Mgar offensive core which really loves tspikes wearing down Arceus formes/TA resists and boosting Hex, wisp also makes it harder for mons to break Zyg's sub, etc. Weezing can also pivot into support Groundceus/Fairyceus, Pdon lacking Overheat, a lot of mons on stall that rely on toxic to do damage, etc.

Weezing spreads status allowing Groudon/Mgar to nab kills
Basic example of phazing Xerneas



Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Glare
- Substitute
- Leech Seed

This is my favorite Serp set. It doesn't work very well in OU unless you pair it with Magnezone support, however, the general lack of grass-types in Ubers (bar Ferrothorn and the rare Arceus-Grass) mean that this set is kind of able to go ham, if you get a setup opportunity. That's a big if unfortunately, since Serp doesn't force many switches (prior to boosting, it doesn't even KO Kyogre with max spa) so people are generally reticent about letting it set up, especially if they know what it does. Your best bet is on a predicted status move, or on Pdon lacking a Fire-type move. However, its bulk is surprisingly OK with max hp, for example it survives LO Marsh/Mega Lucario CC, as well as 2 Judgments from support Arceus from full.

I should also mention that moves such as Sacred Fire, Sunsteel Strike, and Fleur Cannon only have 8 PP, so if you manage to leech them and keep clicking sub, defensive Ho-oh, spdef Necrozma, and Magearna will be unable to touch you after a short while.

Serp annoying stall
 
Last edited:
Ayy serp
I've been using it on a theme team of 6 snakes (arbok, giratina-o, ray, zyg, mgyara and serp), and while it usually doesn't sweep cause of fat steels and hooh, it's really good at forcing switches once someone gets sick of the sub spam to spread para through glare and generally weakening the enemy team for very skillful strategies like sub dd zyg to cheese through.
Plus getting the speed boost vs webs is hilarious
 
With the Drizzlers down and out in UPL I felt like outlining some (or I'd be here for a while) USM meta thoughts.

Generally, the meta is both stable and not at the same time. The structures seen during the tournament are similar, but the real shifting is going on with the sets of the common mons, and shit is getting wild in there. It seems like a cycle of the top mons all switching their sets to beat each other, with the lower ranked / niche mons coming out as support acts. Team structures are only similar at turn 0 before surprises come out.

I think this mon is probably the biggest reason behind the meta shifts. With CM and support (Defog/SR) sets everywhere, Arceus-Ground has forced the most common mons to change their sets almost drastically compared to before the UPL. Look at Primal Groudon - special set (Eruption) usage has gone way up, and SR SD usage has gone way down. SpD SR sets are using Toxic more often. Why? Arceus-Ground. Dusk sets are also seeing changes - SpD (with SR or SD, or even both) variants are seeing a large usage spike. Even Ultra is making use of SR because the type change and speed can flip some hazard matchups in a different way, and Arceus-Ground's usage ties into that. Mega Gengar has trouble taking Arceus-Ground down. Salamence and Zygarde are barely any help against it, which changes some structures a lot as they try to deal with the Arceus-Ground weakness. Any new meta sights need to match up well vs this mon.

The 150 BP moves are out in force and lord help you if your resists are shaky. Kyogre in particular is enjoying the idea of making Groudon guess every time what move it should click, and if its anything but Precipice Blades then something is probably taking a lot of damage, which can be abused by other mons. Both of these mons are running glass cannon sets with max speed and this makes the matchups super volatile. In the case of Groudon, SR is thrown to lesser mons to make up for it. That's why Dusk and Ultra are seeing SR usage spikes, with some Arceus formes and wilder ideas being mixed in.

As I've said, many of their sets are moving to mixtures of utility and breaking roles rather than all out offense. Ultra in particular is being well prepared for with Scarf Yveltal, Ekiller, Mega Gengar being more common considerations on many different structures, sometimes multiple of them at the same time, so Ultra is switching it up a bit. Dusk is still great to have as the Xern check while Groudon does its 150 BP spam and does well covering up weaknesses. DD has fallen off a cliff in favor of TR SD, which is about time. Note: no usage stats means this is all in my head, but stats are for sheet lookers.

Honorable mentions to the Arceus-Fairy switch-ups, some good sets are finally appearing. Webs can stay quiet for now. All hail Gengar. Yveltal is near impossible to abuse. Stop running Defense on Gira-O. Lunala is a bad Kyogre. Double status mons is a cool wave. Cheers for reading.
 

TheUndeclared243

Banned deucer.

Watching this UPL ardently from the sidelines, I've really grown fond of SR Ultra Necrozma, and as someone very new to this meta, I'm shocked that it's not been a more established trend. I believe that if one is not abusing the spectacular duality in typing and general defensive role gifted to a team by the use of Ultra Necrozma and base form Dusk Mane Necrozma, then he/she is not using the Pokemon to its fullest. Dusk Mane Necrozma, especially one masquerading as a support set with Stealth Rock, effortlessly lures Pokemon such as Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh, Pokemon that Ultra Necrozma can break through, and possibly open a hole that can be exploited by teammates such as Kyogre or mixed RP Primal Groudon. I've utilized this idea in my own (not very good) building, heavily inspired by discussions I've had with Zesty43 and replays I've watched this UPL.
 

Peli

name elevated but i still act average
Scolipede @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Def / 156 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Snatch

this is something paycard and i cooked up week one for a scoli team. the initial idea was to try to get scoli to live a non boosted spectral thief + sneak but after thinking about it what do you really need attack for? You 2hko what you need to with EQ with 0 attack (diancie,exca,gengar) and dont break ekiller subs with max attack earthquake anyway. Instead, we opted for the maximum defense possible while still outspeeding yveltal. the defense makes scolipede surprisingly bulky, and allows you to take a lot more hits than you would think on the physical side. Marshadow needs two high rolls to ohko with LO thief + sneak so thats p cool.

Toxic is hella nice for catching ho oh and some ekillers and shit in general. Snatch is for sub ekiller, if they sub you snatch the sd and can break their sub, so sub ekiller never should beat you with this set, which is one of the few things that can potentially set up in your face.

you do have to give up endeav but i think thats a move that never really does anything in practice, especially in a tour like upl where i dont think people are liable to lose a mon to scolipede.

252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 100 HP / 252 Def Scolipede: 117-138 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0 Atk Scolipede Earthquake vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 123-145 (29.7 - 35%) -- 15% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Scolipede Earthquake vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 79-93 (19 - 22.4%) -- possible 5HKO

0 Atk Scolipede Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar-Mega: 174-206 (66.6 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Scolipede Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 218-258 (60.2 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Scolipede Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie-Mega: 134-158 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 100 HP / 252 Def Scolipede: 160-188 (55.9 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 100 HP / 252 Def Scolipede: 107-126 (37.4 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

overall it was a fun upl and it was nice coming back and meeting a lot of new people. thx to dom and poek for drafting me and the to rest of the lunalas for making it a solid experience. theres some other shit i want to drop but we still have one week left so alas, another time.
 

Guard

حرروا فلسطين
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
OMPL Champion
Since this thread is as dead as a doornail, I'm here to bring you a guide explaining the thought process and essentials behind many balanced and bulky offensive teams (my favourite archetypes) in the Ubers metagame.

This is in a subjective order of priority by the way. It's the order I always stick to and it of course can differ among Uber players.

188557
188558
188565
*Primal-Groudon counterplay*
188559
188560


188614

Being the undisputed ruler that has the metagame in a stranglehold, it should be crystal clear that any balanced team should seek to counter or at least hard-check Primal Groudon. Since Primal Groudon very often tends to be a team’s Stealth Rock setter, it usually is a good idea to equip your team’s defogger with the tools to retaliate back at Primal Groudon. Other things you should look to cover up in your team is a Pokémon that can consistently tank Precipice Blades, like defensive Arceus forms or Zygarde, and a Pokémon that can take Eruption/Overheat relatively well like Arceus Water or Giratina-O. Packing a ground immunity like Yveltal, Ho-Oh and Mega-Salamence can also prove to be handy when pivoting around Primal Groudon, though they should not be your only checks.

188561
188562
*Xerneas counterplay*
188563
188564


188615

Geomancy Xerneas is the single most restrictive and influential force in the metagame and should be taken very seriously when making any team. Luckily, gen 7 brought us long-awaited reliable Geomancy Xerneas counterplay in the form of Necrozma-DM and Magearna. Packing a specially defensive Necrozma-DM or a Magearna is usually sufficient when looking for ways to keep Xerneas at bay. Any other Pokemon is prone to getting worn down by Xerneas itself (even offensive Necrozma DM). Hence, if you cannot fit either Spd Necrozma DM or Magearna in your team, you'll probably need to take extra measurements. Good options in that case are cores like Primal Groudon + offensive Necrozma DM, Primal Groudon + priority, Ho-Oh + Ferrothorn or a nifty tech like Roar Primal Groudon.

Having said that, Geomancy Xerneas is not the only Xerneas form you'll encounter in battles. Scarf Xerneas is another very prominent set that is used in order to revenge kill a plethora of Pokémon. Thus, if you pack Pokémon that are prone to getting revenge killed by Scarf Xerneas (Zygarde, Marshadow, Yveltal, U-Necrozma), you must include Pokémon that can consistently tank a few Moonblasts like Ho-Oh, Ferrothorn etc.

188566
188567
*Necrozma counterplay*
188568
188569
188570


188616
188617

If you see a Necrozma-DM on the foe’s team, the first thing you should do is scanning the opposing team, because it is mandatory for you to know whether you’re indeed dealing with a pure Necrozma-DM or whether it’ll ultra-burst into U-Necrozma. This is very tricky since both forms have a usage of approximately 50%. Most of the time however, the form and set can be deduced from team preview. A trick I always use is looking for Xerneas checks. If the Necrozma-DM is paired with a sturdy Xerneas check like Magearna or Primal Groudon, the Necrozma-DM most probably is either an offensive Necrozma-DM or a U-Necrozma. If not, it probably is a specially defensive Necrozma-DM.

However, this is not always accurate, so you will usually want to include Pokémon in your team that can take a Sunsteel Strike or Photon Geyser in order to deduce Necrozma’s set. This can be done with several Pokémon, including Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Water, Zygarde and Primal Groudon.

As soon as you have deduced which set you’re dealing with, you have to act accordingly in order to stop them in their tracks. If it is a specially defensive Necrozma-DM, you have to try to force it out with brute strength through double switches (Primal Groudon, Lunala, Yveltal, Primal Kyogre) and make sure it doesn’t Toxic your defensive backbone in order to prevent it from making too much progress. If it is an offensive variant of Necrozma-DM, immediately switch into your check because you may never give it the opportunity to both Sword’s Dance and Rock Polish (except if you have a Sucker Punch Yveltal). Also, since Necrozma-DM is often used to sponge up not very effective attacks even if it doesn’t have defensive investment, another strategy of taking on an offensive Necrozma-DM is wearing it down through repeated attacks like Xerneas’ Moonblast or Arceus Fairy’s Judgment. If you’re dealing with a U-Necrozma, you should try to revenge kill it with a Scarf Xerneas, Scarf/Sucker Punch Yveltal, Marshadow or Mega Gengar. Offensive counterplay is usually a better strategy in dealing with U-Necrozma than defensive counterplay, because simply put, nothing except for Arceus Dark or Lunala can call itself a consistent U-Necrozma check.

188572
188573
188596
*Yveltal counterplay*
188575
188576
188579


188618

Yveltal is a champion when it comes to dismantling your entire team one by one and there really isn't much you can do against it . If you have an Arceus Fairy or Magearna (or the more niche Tyranitar) in your team, you should be safe (however, Yveltal can overcome those with Toxic and LO/Specs Heat Wave and U-turn respectively). If you're not running either Magearna or Arceus Fairy, be prepared for guessing games, double switches and sacrifices since that's the only way you can defeat it. There are many Pokemon that can take at least one attack from Yveltal and retaliate back hard, like Xerneas, Ho-Oh, Kyogre and Defensive Primal Groudon, but they will be damaged in the process, if not severely.

Although Yveltal has a few viable sets, there are two you should absolutely watch out for: Life Orb and Taunt-Toxic. These are the two sets that Yveltal can use to break through an entire team in the right hands and are impossible to abuse. LO Dark Pulse hits nearly everything obscenely hard while LO Oblivion Wing hits hard enough in order to invalidate Xerneas as a hard check. Taunt in combination with LO Oblivion Wing enables it to defeat Support Arceus forms 1v1 while the fourth slot can be used to slot in very strong and utile priority in Sucker Punch or yet another breaking tool in Toxic. The Taunt-Toxic set isn't per se a powerhouse like the LO set, but it still remains a feared set, for it can break through pretty much every single defensive Pokemon in the metagame with a combination of the crippling Toxic, a recovery-denying Taunt, recovery in the form of Roost and a deceptively strong Dark Pulse, all the while providing defensive prowess itself.

Like I said earlier, if you're not running either Magearna or Arceus Fairy, you should be prepared for guessing games, double switches and sacrifices. Since you'll basically be dancing around Yveltal, you'll at least want a Dark resist in order to pivot around Dark Pulse. This is also a must if you have sweepers that are prone to Scarf Yveltal's Foul Play. The most obvious choice for this role is Xerneas, though you could also use Pokemon like Klefki or Arceus Dark.

188604
188605
*Primal Kyogre*
188612


188619

Yes indeed. There are two Primal Kyogre checks, period; Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn. Luckily, Primal Kyogre does not have the best speed, so you can force it out with offensive pressure through the likes of Marshadow, Mega Salamence and U-Necrozma, though they by no means can switch into Primal Kyogre. If you are facing a Primal Kyogre, be very very preservative with your Primal Groudon throughout the game. Losing your Primal Groudon in a Primal Kyogre matchup is a death sentence. It also is a good idea to scout the Primal Kyogre for the physical set since this variant will defeat Primal Groudon 1v1. The best Pokemon to do this is Arceus Water or Ferrothorn, since they will survive anything Primal Kyogre can throw at it at least once. Equip a Primal Groudon, be preservative, and you should be fine.

188623
*A plan around Shadow Tag*
188624


188620
188621
188622

Mega Gengar, Gothitelle and Gothorita. Uber's personal devils. Since this post is about balanced and bulky offensive teams, you are bound to have at least one Pokemon that is trappable by either of these three ominous forces. In a Shadow Tag matchup, try to intimidate your opponent through double switches to your Wallbreakers, pivot and pray you make the right decisions. Completely healthy, I know. You do have another choice though. Notice how those three are weak to Pursuit. Yeah, instead of them trapping you, you can be the one trapping them. It's a lot of fun too. Marshadow is imo the best Pursuit trapper, though Tyranitar works too.

188630
188627
188628
188629
188632
*Zygarde counterplay*
188631


188633

Zygarde is easily checked by any Arceus form with Ice Beam, Arceus Fairy's Judgement and itself (Coil Rest Zygarde is a hard counter to offensive Zygarde) . It can however cripple them all with Glare or KO them with Groundium Z after some chip. The first thing you should do is scout for it's item. If it's Leftovers, feel free to switch directly into your check. If it's not Leftovers, it's probably Groundium Z and in that case, you should bait it out. If you really want to be safe, you may pair your checks with Aromatherapy Xerneas in order to come out of the tussle unscathed.

188634
188635
188636
188641
*Marshadow counterplay*
188638
188637
188639
188640


188642

Although not as threatening to Balance as it is to Offense, Marshadow should always be on your threatlist. Marshadow is usually covered sufficiently with an Arceus form (or the more niche Toxapex), though if you can't fit a Support Arceus form in your team, other Pokemon like Zygarde, Yveltal, Ho-Oh and Salamence can cover up. However, Marshadow can overcome all of these with either Rock Tomb or HP Ice. Arceus forms without too many Def EV points should also be wary of a Bulk Up Soul Stealing 7 Star Strike, but that is a rare set so I don't really think too much about that.

188661
188662
*Lunala counterplay*
188664
188665


188666

Although not as common as other offensive behemoths, Lunala is not a Pokemon to be taken lightly and will massively disrupt your team if you don't take any precautions. From a defensive point of view, the best thing you can do to halt Lunala is setting up your hazards or poisoning it since that will break it's Shadow Shield. A Lunala with a broken Shadow Shield is literally twice as easy to revenge kill than a Lunala with its Shadow Shield intact. There are however a select few Pokemon (LO Yveltal and LO Marshadow) that can revenge kill Lunala through its Shadow Shield so if you have those, chipping Lunala isn't necessarily a must. When facing a Lunala, you shouldn't seek to wall it since it has tremendous damage output, setup options, a very potent STAB move, a killer Z-move and unresisted coverage. However, having a ghost-resist is often a good idea.

188667
188669
188680
188670
*Mega Salamence checks*
188675
188673


188676

Mega Salamence is yet another threat that can rampage through teams with the sheer power of its Aerilate-boosted Double Edge. Since Mega Salamence is very bulky and therefore hard to revenge kill, your best bet is to equip an Arceus form with either Ice Beam, a super effective Judgement or Will-o-Wisp. You could also use a defensive Zygarde to halt its progress. Luckily, Salamence will often wear itself down through Double Edge to the point where a relatively weak attack like Primal Groudon's Rock Tomb will take it out. Regardless, packing a flying-resist is always a good plan, which brings us to...

188683
188684
188685
*Ho-Oh checks*
188687
188688


188689

Although Ho-Oh very often is used defensively, that doesn't mean its LO and Band sets pack less of a punch. A stray offensive Ho-Oh can easily slice your entire defensive backbone apart, so be sure to scout it's set. Defensive Zygarde, Facade Salamence and Arceus Water are some of the sturdiest checks to Ho-Oh. Rock type coverage from Primal Groudon, Marshadow and Arceus forms also frequently catch Ho-Oh off guard. However, the easiest way to keep Ho-Oh in check is to simply lay Stealth Rocks.

188690
188694
188695
*E-Killer checks*
188696
188697
188693


188698

Extreme Killer Arceus is a former shadow of its glory days, but can still wreck havoc if left unchecked. From a defensive point of view, Celesteela and Zygarde are sufficient in order to keep it at bay. If you are able to pack Will-o-Wisp into your Arceus form you should be fine too. From an offensive point of view, Marshadow immediately comes to mind, though be aware of Chople Berry. Will-o-Wisp Mega Gengar can also cripple it for the rest of the game, though it won't come out of the battle unharmed.

188700
188709
188702
*Offensive Arceus counterplay*
188703
188704


188705
188706
188707

Both Sword's Dance and Calm Mind Arceus forms can be seen from time to time in several teams. Arceus Ground in particular is pretty threatening since it can run both Sword's Dance and Calm Mind. Scouting is again the key here. Defensive Zygarde, Charti Berry/Scarf Yveltal with Foul Play and Marshadow are common answers to Sword's Dance forms while Ferrothorn and Ho-Oh hold their own against most Calm Mind Arceus forms.

Other things you should look to cover up in your team are:

Stealth Rock
Defog
Stallbreakers
Toxic-absorber
A plan against Webs

Some other things that are very handy but aren't required:

Aromatherapy/Heal Bell
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
A plan against other forms of Hyper Offense

If you've read all of that, give yourself a pat on your shoulders. You have listened to an hour of my life-story.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

bigtalk

Banned deucer.
RRahman1 To help out newcomers who are reading this thread, I'd like to share my thoughts on some of what you've said:
View attachment 188566View attachment 188567*Necrozma counterplay*View attachment 188568View attachment 188569View attachment 188570

View attachment 188616View attachment 188617
If you see a Necrozma-DM on the foe’s team, the first thing you should do is scanning the opposing team, because it is mandatory for you to know whether you’re indeed dealing with a pure Necrozma-DM or whether it’ll ultra-burst into U-Necrozma. This is very tricky since both forms have a usage of approximately 50%. Most of the time however, the form and set can be deduced from team preview. A trick I always use is looking for Xerneas checks. If the Necrozma-DM is paired with a sturdy Xerneas check like Magearna or Primal Groudon, the Necrozma-DM most probably is either an offensive Necrozma-DM or a U-Necrozma. If not, it probably is a specially defensive Necrozma-DM.

However, this is not always accurate, so you will usually want to include Pokémon in your team that can take a Sunsteel Strike or Photon Geyser in order to deduce Necrozma’s set. This can be done with several Pokémon, including Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Water, Zygarde and Primal Groudon.

As soon as you have deduced which set you’re dealing with, you have to act accordingly in order to stop them in their tracks. If it is a specially defensive Necrozma-DM, you have to try to force it out with brute strength through double switches (Primal Groudon, Lunala, Yveltal, Primal Kyogre) and make sure it doesn’t Toxic your defensive backbone in order to prevent it from making too much progress. If it is an offensive variant of Necrozma-DM, immediately switch into your check because you may never give it the opportunity to both Sword’s Dance and Rock Polish (except if you have a Sucker Punch Yveltal). Also, since Necrozma-DM is often used to sponge up not very effective attacks even if it doesn’t have defensive investment, another strategy of taking on an offensive Necrozma-DM is wearing it down through repeated attacks like Xerneas’ Moonblast or Arceus Fairy’s Judgment. If you’re dealing with a U-Necrozma, you should try to revenge kill it with a Scarf Xerneas, Scarf/Sucker Punch Yveltal, Marshadow or Mega Gengar. Offensive counterplay is usually a better strategy in dealing with U-Necrozma than defensive counterplay, because simply put, nothing except for Arceus Dark or Lunala can call itself a consistent U-Necrozma check.
Additional tips for dealing with Ultra Necrozma: if you have a Primal Groudon/Kyogre at full and they SD up with their Necrozma, that is a big BIG red flag that they're Ultra. Otherwise, your primal could simply outspeed it and OHKO with Overheat/Water Spout the following turn if your set was 279 speed or more. So in scenarios when I'm forced to play defensively around Necro, ie. it's given a free switch into my scarf Xern that's locked into Moonblast, I usually employ the following strategy:
  • Go to Groudon initially expecting a Steel-type move. If they go for rocks/toxic then they're likely the defensive set so you don't need to worry. If they go for SD, they are likely Ultra. The most common Ultra set runs Photon Geyser, EQ, and typically either Sunsteel Strike/Stone Edge as its 3rd attacking move. It's unlikely that your opp will randomly click Sunsteel Strike/Stone Edge into your Groudon, so you can pivot into something like Yveltal as they Ultra Burst and use either Photon Geyser/Earthquake. Yveltal can then revenge kill it with Sucker Punch or scarf Foul Play.
    • "Tricking" Unecro into evolving can be beneficial for a lot of Pokemon. For example, you can bring in your Groudon on SD, sack something as they Ultra Burst, and go right back into your scarf Xern and claim a kill. Pokemon like Bronzong/Celesteela also wall it and can use Toxic/deal more damage with Steel-type moves once it has evolved.
  • For similar reasons, if they bring in their Necro on one of your passive Steel-types like Ferrothorn or defensive Necro, going hard Yveltal is an acceptable play. Unless they're a prediction god its safe to assume they're not clicking raw Toxic/Stone Edge/Sunsteel Strike into your Steel-type and they're going to see it as a setup opportunity, which you can punish with Foul Play/Sucker Punch. (It's risker to do this with something like Magearna though, since it is stonewalled by Necro and can't setup hazards or anything it's much more obvious that you are going to switch in that scenario.)
View attachment 188623*A plan around Shadow Tag*View attachment 188624

View attachment 188620View attachment 188621View attachment 188622
Mega Gengar, Gothitelle and Gothorita. Uber's personal devils. Since this post is about balanced and bulky offensive teams, you are bound to have at least one Pokemon that is trappable by either of these three ominous forces. In a Shadow Tag matchup, try to intimidate your opponent through double switches to your Wallbreakers, pivot and pray you make the right decisions. Completely healthy, I know. You do have another choice though. Notice how those three are weak to Pursuit. Yeah, instead of them trapping you, you can be the one trapping them. It's a lot of fun too. Marshadow is imo the best Pursuit trapper, though Tyranitar works too.
Note, slapping Pursuit on your team doesn't automatically shield your entire team from Shadow Tag users. Gothitelle can switch in on your wall, PP stall it, then switch out during the turn it kills itself from Struggle recoil so Marshadow/Ttar doesn't reverse trap it the following turn. Mgar frequently runs Substitute which provides it with a buffer against Pursuit trappers, and it sometimes runs Focus Blast to OHKO Ttar.
View attachment 188661View attachment 188662 *Lunala counterplay*View attachment 188664View attachment 188665

View attachment 188666
Although not as common as other offensive behemoths, Lunala is not a Pokemon to be taken lightly and will massively disrupt your team if you don't take any precautions. From a defensive point of view, the best thing you can do to halt Lunala is setting up your hazards or poisoning it since that will break it's Shadow Shield. A Lunala with a broken Shadow Shield is literally twice as easy to revenge kill than a Lunala with its Shadow Shield intact. There are however a select few Pokemon (LO Yveltal and LO Marshadow) that can revenge kill Lunala through its Shadow Shield so if you have those, chipping Lunala isn't necessarily a must. When facing a Lunala, you shouldn't seek to wall it since it has tremendous damage output, setup options, a very potent STAB move, a killer Z-move and unresisted coverage. However, having a ghost-resist is often a good idea.
In addition to the Dark-types that were listed, Chople Ekiller is also a good Lunala/Mega Gengar check. Relying exclusively on Marshadow to revenge kill said threats is not enough unless its LO/Band with Pursuit, because good Lunala teams often pair it with fat walls that completely invalidate Marshadow like Xerneas/Arceus-Fairy, defensive Zygarde-C, and Toxapex.
View attachment 188683View attachment 188684View attachment 188685*Ho-Oh checks*View attachment 188687View attachment 188688

View attachment 188689
Although Ho-Oh very often is used defensively, that doesn't mean its LO and Band sets pack less of a punch. A stray offensive Ho-Oh can easily slice your entire defensive backbone apart, so be sure to scout it's set. Defensive Zygarde, Facade Salamence and Arceus Water are some of the sturdiest checks to Ho-Oh. Rock type coverage from Primal Groudon, Marshadow and Arceus forms also frequently catch Ho-Oh off guard. However, the easiest way to keep Ho-Oh in check is to simply lay Stealth Rocks.
Rock move Groudon / Toxapex are kind of Ho-Oh checks that handle Scarf well, but they can both get 2HKOed by Band Brave Bird and get hit supereffectively by EQ. Offensive Primal Kyogre can get straight up OHKO'd by Band, so newcomers should not mistake it for an offensive Ho-Oh check.
 

SiTuM

j'ai du faire un mauvais rêve
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Yo everyone, imma make this post to share some teams I used during my seasonal run all the way up to my win and my thoughts on the current meta. First, I'm going to say what I think is good and not good in Ubers atm. Even if it was just a passing trend, I don’t think banning Pdon would be a solution to anything. Like, you know, it's the perfect check to some monsters like Pogre, Mluke and some unused but still dangerous mons like Eleceus, Reshiram or Zekrom who would all destroy the meta easily if pdon got banned. The problem is, in my opinion, the other overpowered mon that can sweep way more easily than Pdon and does almost as well defensively: Necrozma Dusk Mane.



Since its introduction, like Pdon, it has been a top tier threat because of its versatility, its raw power and on top of that: the possibility of turning into a totally different mon, who is also a terrifying power-house that can easily destroy any balanced team (or even stall builds) with the right coverage, Ultra Necrozma.



Like I said, the combination the myriad of set dusk mane can run (SR Specially Defensive with Toxic, SR offensive with SD, Double dance, TR, SD + Morning Sun etc...) when coupled with the destructive power of Ultra Necrozma is something too powerful for this tier, not just because Ultra Necrozma hits too hard, but because you can get heavily punished when you try to scout Dusk Mane’s set trying to gauge the exact 4 moves it’s running. If you think it's Defensive, you switch into Pdon and you get smacked by an offensive variant almost get 2hko'd by Earthquake, if you think it's Ultra you go to your Darkceus and you get destroyed by Searing Sunraze Strike, if you think it's SD offensive or SD unecro you pivot to Mega Scizor and you get popped by Heat Wave CM UNecro, same goes for Phys Def. Zygarde getting smacked by a DPulse; the list goes on for almost every check.

anyway, apart from that, a little list of pretty underappreciated mons I think should be used more:

even if it's seeing more usage now, lots of people still underestimate its power.

the best mega after Gengar, I think it can even challenge Mega Mence for the 2nd best mega spot because Pogre+ MZor as a core is way too strong.

These mons can fill the role of a fat Steel types better than DM on some teams thanks to their secondary typing or their unique moveset options such as Spikes, Leech Seed or Whirlwind.

Mega Blaziken, a mon I believe has shifted from a wallbreaker into an extremely good cleaner.

It checks a shitton of things even outside of stall, like mixed RP Pdon, E-killer, Ho-oh and non Draconium zygarde.

Now, the part everybody or maybe nobody is interested in: some of my teams. Sadly, quite a lot of the ones I used during the latter part of this seasonal are Mysterious M's property, and i would absolutely never post somebody's team claiming it is mine when it is not.



A very fun team featuring one of the most often overlooked arceus form: Arceus-Fire. For a pretty long time i wanted to build a solid team with it, that's why it is "v3", because the 2 previous versions of this team were complete garbage. But i think this version is solid and can support fireceus quite well, because even if there's an apparent triple rocks weak, the double defog with def lunala and yveltal can prevent rocks from staying up.




A team with the core i love a lot, mgengar+darkceus. Even i think it became less easier to use because of the resurgence of some annoying mons or playstyles for that core, it's still a very deadly one if you don't have the tools to counter it. I don't have much to say about the team, restalk pdon is an awesome set to check pogre and things like ho oh or dm better if you're lucky with sleep talk and band ho oh is for me better than scarf ho oh.




It's a very classic team, but aside the fact it had some flaws like having a rough time against stall (even if sd dm+dbond mgar can still do something), it's very solid. The spotlight is clearly on CM Groundceus, one of the best versions of ceus with CM because it does a lot of work if there's not some ho oh or steela around.




I also wanted to showcase this team even if i didnt use it. MMY is quite a trend atm and its completely deserved because of its wallbreaking and sweeping possibilities. I paired it with brick break unecro just because it can destroy darkceus, the best counter to mmy atm. I also used CM fairyceus, because some ho oh always get popped by unecro thinking its sd z move dm when its not, so it can open a lot of doors for fairyceus.

its the end of this post which i took almost 1h30 to write, so i hope it will not be useless lmao
(sorry if some sentences are hard to understand, i'm not a native english speaker.)

peace!
 
Last edited:
Yo everyone, imma make this post to share some teams I used during my seasonal run all the way up to my win and my thoughts on the current meta. First, I'm going to say what I think is good and not good in Ubers atm. Even if it was just a passing trend, I don’t think banning Pdon would be a solution to anything. Like, you know, it's the perfect check to some monsters like Pogre, Mluke and some unused but still dangerous mons like Eleceus, Reshiram or Zekrom who would all destroy the meta easily if pdon got banned. The problem is, in my opinion, the other overpowered mon that can sweep way more easily than Pdon and does almost as well defensively: Necrozma Dusk Mane.



Since its introduction, like Pdon, it has been a top tier threat because of its versatility, its raw power and on top of that: the possibility of turning into a totally different mon, who is also a terrifying power-house that can easily destroy any balanced team (or even stall builds) with the right coverage, Ultra Necrozma.



Like I said, the combination the myriad of set dusk mane can run (SR Specially Defensive with Toxic, SR offensive with SD, Double dance, TR, SD + Morning Sun etc...) when coupled with the destructive power of Ultra Necrozma is something too powerful for this tier, not just because Ultra Necrozma hits too hard, but because you can get heavily punished when you try to scout Dusk Mane’s set trying to gauge the exact 4 moves it’s running. If you think it's Defensive, you switch into Pdon and you get smacked by an offensive variant almost get 2hko'd by Earthquake, if you think it's Ultra you go to your Darkceus and you get destroyed by Searing Sunraze Strike, if you think it's SD offensive or SD unecro you pivot to Mega Scizor and you get popped by Heat Wave CM UNecro, same goes for Phys Def. Zygarde getting smacked by a DPulse; the list goes on for almost every check.

anyway, apart from that, a little list of pretty underappreciated mons I think should be used more:

even if it's seeing more usage now, lots of people still underestimate its power.

the best mega after Gengar, I think it can even challenge Mega Mence for the 2nd best mega spot because Pogre+ MZor as a core is way too strong.

These mons can fill the role of a fat Steel types better than DM on some teams thanks to their secondary typing or their unique moveset options such as Spikes, Leech Seed or Whirlwind.

Mega Blaziken, a mon I believe has shifted from a wallbreaker into an extremely good cleaner.

It checks a shitton of things even outside of stall, like mixed RP Pdon, E-killer, Ho-oh and non Draconium zygarde.

Now, the part everybody or maybe nobody is interested in: some of my teams. Sadly, quite a lot of the ones I used during the latter part of this seasonal are Mysterious M's property, and i would absolutely never post somebody's team claiming it is mine when it is not.



A very fun team featuring one of the most often overlooked arceus form: Arceus-Fire. For a pretty long time i wanted to build a solid team with it, that's why it is "v3", because the 2 previous versions of this team were complete garbage. But i think this version is solid and can support fireceus quite well, because even if there's an apparent triple rocks weak, the double defog with def lunala and yveltal can prevent rocks from staying up.




A team with the core i love a lot, mgengar+darkceus. Even i think it became less easier to use because of the resurgence of some annoying mons or playstyles for that core, it's still a very deadly one if you don't have the tools to counter it. I don't have much to say about the team, restalk pdon is an awesome set to check pogre and things like ho oh or dm better if you're lucky with sleep talk and band ho oh is for me better than scarf ho oh.




It's a very classic team, but aside the fact it had some flaws like having a rough time against stall (even if sd dm+dbond mgar can still do something), it's very solid. The spotlight is clearly on CM Groundceus, one of the best versions of ceus with CM because it does a lot of work if there's not some ho oh or steela around.




I also wanted to showcase this team even if i didnt use it. MMY is quite a trend atm and its completely deserved because of its wallbreaking and sweeping possibilities. I paired it with brick break unecro just because it can destroy darkceus, the best counter to mmy atm. I also used CM fairyceus, because some ho oh always get popped by unecro thinking its sd z move dm when its not, so it can open a lot of doors for fairyceus.

its the end of this post which i took almost 1h30 to write, so i hope it will not be useless lmao
(sorry if some sentences are hard to understand, i'm not a native english speaker.)

peace!
seldom have I seen teams with thoughts like yours here, tbh it's really my pity that didn't match you in ssnl, nice sharing
 

Cynara

Banned deucer.
193320

Xerneas @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Defog
- [Insert your coverage here]

Just want to jump straight into this thread talking about this set in the current state of the metagame. I honestly feel like Scarf Xerneas is terrible at what it does, I spectate a lot of games where it just seems to get outlasted by Yveltal / Marshadow, targets its designed to beat.

Defog Xern is honestly a band aid for a good portion of teams in the metagame, Defog on a scarfer such as Xerneas iss honestly bad and is easily manipulated as it really wants to moonblast every time it comes in (to avoid giving free turns to Pokemon like Mega Gengar, Primal Groudon or NEcrozma-DM who will use it as setup bait). This can put a lot of pressure on teams to actually function against the weight of hazards. It simply doesn't function well as a support Fairy anymore. Yveltal honestly excels so much better as a scarfer due to its flexiblity in moveslots, superior offensive typing for coverage against relevant meta threats, and access to stuff like U-turn makes keeping Momentum in your favour much much easier. In my honest opinion, Magearna or Klefki are the only acceptable support fairies in the meta, but thats a different story for another day.

193322

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 172 Def / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Aromatherapy

Geomancy Xerneas however, is honestly at its peak right now as overtime USM has increasingly became increasingly offensive and players are packing weaker Geomancy Xerneas checks on offense. The good thing about Geomancy Xerneas is that it is good at compacting, Moonblast + Thunder is the only real coverage it seems to need in the current meta, since hitting Ho-Oh,Toxapex and the Celesteela that appears once in a blue moon is actually really important. I feel like Focus Blast is not worth it, Everyone runs fast or no bulk Primal Groudon, so Moonblast is actually better once you factor everything in, Spdef variants of Pdon don't really exist anymore, this makes Hidden Power Fire to allow you to still kill Ferrothorn and OHKO Mega Scizor which actually crops up in usage these days. Thunder is actually better against Necrozma-DM as you can cheese full paras (if you really need to) and this makes it more favourable over Focus Blast. Even though Focus Blast has more favourable rolls, this is never going to make a difference in like almost every game. Aromatherapy allows it to still provide that kind of support the Scarf set would while being even better vs Offense compared to the Choice Scarf set.

193329

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Thunder Wave
- Recover

I understand most people probably use Earth Power on their Arceus Fairies these days. Obviously this set doesn't have much going for it against Primal Groudon, regardless I find Thunder Wave really interesting as it allows Fairyceus to punish common switchins like Necrozma-DM and still make Mega Gengar think twice about switching in, like Earth Power. Earth Power is actually kind of risky against Necrozma-DM due to chance of weakness policy and this can put you in a rough spot. Thunder wave Arc-Fairy also synergies well with breakers such as CB Yveltal or Cb Ho-Oh, Primal Kyogre etc, due to the fact you're able to slow down faster Pokemon such as Mega Mewtwo Y, Arceus formes etc, Kyogre especially is an amazing partner for this set as a breaker.

Sorry this post is kinda messy, Im really tired, but hope it gets my points across.
 

Bomb Voyage

Banned deucer.
Increasingly, many offense teams are being held back by Specially Defensive variants of Dusk Mane Necrozma as well as Magearna to adequately check fairies. Neither of those two have much offensive presence nor offer any reasonable amount of momentum, and since offense primarily relies on momentum generation, Curse Mega Scizor aims to compress the roles of a Fairy check (adequately defeating Geo Xern that do not carry HP Fire, which was a rarity until now), in addition to stopping many SD sweepers thanks to Curse, and lastly acting as a bulky pivot for the ever so omnipresent Dual Primal Bulky Offenses, which are arguably the best Offense builds of this gen. Mega Scizor is one of the very few mons that can reliably defeat the dangerous Geo Xern + EKiller Arceus offense core and can further augment its usefulness to a team by facilitating a potential sweep once it has accumulated enough boosts. Easily a metagame trend at the moment, I'd truly daresay Mega Scizor is currently the second best mega in the tier.

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Atk / 128 SpD
Brave Nature
- Curse
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Roost
 
Last edited:

Cynara

Banned deucer.

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Transform

Ditto is a Pokemon that I feel that is honestly overlooked in USM Ubers right now, its probably one of the most interesting and creative Pokemon I've ever explored building. The reasoning behind it is simply really, USM is a offensive meta, even when compared to ORAS, but at the same time its a bulkier meta. Ditto is actually a really good answer to all ubiquitous offensive threats in USM and can really solidify teams against all these in creative ways, its probably the best anti offense answer out there and can give you ways to patch holes to glaring offensive threats, fits the role of a choice scarf user too, especially since there are a lack of good choice scarf users to revenge kill Ditto in Ubers is another bonus. Best partners for ditto are usually checks it cant really copy and straight up beat i.e Calm mind Arceus are the biggest pain, Ferrothorn, Primal Kyogre, Ekiller etc.

The advantage I find with ditto is it really doesn't have any redundant matchup because you can always find even the smallest use for it and its really good at protecting yourself against cheesier playstyles such as webs offense. I managed to utilise ditto to find an out in a Majors game vs Sharow, where I'd argue the rest of my team had a somewhat bad matchup: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-986863124

I have some teams to share for those who are interested to try it out or pitch some new ideas: https://pokepast.es/baf5b1477ef4dbf4 (this team I originally did some laddering with and managed to obtain 46-2 in one laddering session and probably the favourite out of the bunch), https://pokepast.es/7d53965312bef61a, https://pokepast.es/2e9b59ede748b316

Aside from these, I feel fatter builds such as Ditto Stall are probably worth exploring and something I plan to look into. It's widely accepted that most stalls struggle at covering the myriad of offensive threats and breakers and actually building a solid team in my honest opinion, but something like a ditto stall could make this insurmountable issue somewhat manageable and worth looking into.
 
Last edited:

bigtalk

Banned deucer.
Pretty bored and it's late at night so I decided to make a long post here.

:ditto:
I'd like to talk some more about Ditto, specifically how well it can pair with a particular Pokemon, Ferrothorn.

In general, I have found that it tends to be really hard to handle both Geomancy Xerneas and Fire-types (namely Ho-Oh) adequately on Ferrothorn teams. If you pair Ferrothorn with fat Dusk Mane / Magearna or with fat Roar Pdon, then you open up a lot of weakness to Ho-Oh / opposing Pdon and will generally just have a hard time breaking stall. If you decide to pair it with Ultra / offensive Pdon, then Xerneas can basically sweep your team after one Moonblast's worth of chip, so the team has to be structured very carefully in order to not give it free setup opportunities. This is why, IMO, the best Ferrothorn balance is the Pdon-less one that has fat Zygarde and fat Dusk Mane to hard wall both of these threats. It is difficult to fit Pdon on such a build since it doesn't really offer any utility in terms of checking threats these three can't handle, and in fact compounds weaknesses to threats like CM Groundceus.

Ditto is an amazing solution to this problem, since it lets you run Ultra / offensive Pdon without having to worry about Xerneas at all. Now you actually have breakers that can take advantage of Spikes, instead of being forced to run more fat mons that just get walled and defogged on by Ho-Oh. With Ditto in the back, Ferrothorn is also an amazing counter to Dusk / non-Heat Wave Ultra / Ekiller since these mons have absolutely no way of breaking past it without boosting. They also complement each other by handling a lot of each others' poor matchups, eg. Ferrothorn is really good at dealing with supportceus and cm arcs, while Ditto is great against offense and can be used in other creative applications such as draining the pp of stall mons like Mega Sableye / Giratina, etc.

In general, I just love how Ditto makes teambuilding so flexible by letting you not have to pack a hard Xerneas counter. I think another partner that deserves exploration with it is Mega Gengar, with the idea being that it should be a foolproof method for trapping Xerneas. You can simply sack something to Xerneas without worrying it about using Geomancy; if they do, then you reverse sweep them with Ditto. If they don't, then you get to trap them with Gengar. So basically there's no way for the opponent to outplay this; as long as they get a kill with Xerneas, you will always be able to trap them, meaning in theory you don't need anything else to deal with it.

Stone Edge / Outrage / special Ultra I also feel can be much easier to build around if you have a Ditto. If you don't have Sunsteel on Ultra, I feel like it's really hard to build a solid team around that + another Steel-type to counter GeoXern (I attempted to do this a while ago and it didn't turn out so well, that's the only special Ultra team I have in my builder). I think it would be interesting to see a team around a core of Outrage Ultra + Mega Gengar + Ditto, it should basically guarantee at least two kills against teams that are not using Magearna as the Fairy-type, since Mega Gengar gets to trap fairies that are forced to come in to revenge kill Ultra, while Ditto prevents Xerneas from setting up.

In case anyone is interested, I'll also share some of the Ditto teams that I have sitting in my builder: https://pokepast.es/d6e65323010ef173 Obligatory warning that they're mostly experimental / untested except for a couple in the middle (psyspam, keys, volc, and cune). (I highly recommend the cune team, it's very fun for pissing off opponents ;) it's not stall but people will get mad and accuse you of stalling with it, also has a super clean color aesthetic. cune never actually sweeps, though)

Some other random mons I'd like to talk about:

:arceus-dark:
Maybe I'm just bad at using it, but I basically never manage to get sweeps with CM + Refresh Darkceus. On paper, pairing this with Mega Gengar to trap fairies sounds like a foolproof strat but never ends up actually panning out, mainly due to Magearna being a thing (as well as Marshadow). Mega Gengar also never gets to actually trap Xerneas unless you pull a risky double, since 1) Xerneas could be scarf and 2) if using Darkceus you're likely packing a hard Xerneas counter such as Magearna anyway. Although Refresh is nice, I think it could be worth exploring a CM + twave set to pair with Mega Gengar, which could allow it to switch hard into Xerneas not caring if its scarf or uses geo, and could potentially allow it to do more damage to Magearna with Hex. Another (slightly wackier) idea is maybe to pair it with eject button hooh / pex and something like Eruption Pdon / Dugtrio that abuses Magearna.

:toxapex:
I have mixed feelings about this Pokemon. Sometimes I think it's criminally underrated - Toxic Spikes just 6-0s so many teams without Mega Gengar. Other times though when I face teams with mons like Mega Gengar / Giratina I hate it not being able to do anything. It's a shame it doesn't counter anything and gets shit on by basically all the top threats. Even Fighting-types that its supposed to wall can tech Earthquake or just blow past you with the +1 zmove, in fact I found out the other day that mluc can just beat you by outdamaging Recover with +2 cc if you don't have helmet. Again though tspikes are broken so it's fine. Also, I would like to make people aware that you can run Shuca Berry on this mon, letting you lead off against Pdon / Groundceus and set tspikes in their face, which is super nice (be sure to use it with Toxic).

Thanks for reading this long, rambling wall of text. Hope ppl found this interesting in some way.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top