Resource USM OU Role Compendium

Felixx

I'm back.
I got a few recommendations to possibly add:

Xurkitree to set-up based Stallbreakers (after the vertical bar). It's still in other parts of this role compendium so it's one of the mons that got the "OU VR only" rule exception, and it can threaten Stall easily by setting-up on the bulky waters such as Toxapex or Alomomola, and it can prevent itself from getting walled by Quagsire by running Energy Ball.

Protean Greninja to the Offensive Pivots section. Scarf Protean Gren actually utilizes U-turn much better than Ash-Gren, since it means giving up an important moveslot in Spikes, so it dosen't make sense to have only Ash-Gren there.

Qwilfish to Toxic Spikes users (after the vertical bar). If its in the Spikes users section it should also get a Tspikes user mention too, although it isn't exactly good at utilizing either hazard.

Hydreigon should be removed from the Choice Scarfers section. Specs is the only viable set, and I don't see it actually having a niche with Scarf since there are a lot of better choices for speed control.
 
It's mainly because Starmie isn't ranked in VR, meanwhile Avalugg is C- IIRC. Avalugg can be used in some stall teams, while Starmie isn't used as it was used in ORAS to check shit like Keldeo. If you want run a bulky Water in this meta, you run Pex o Gastro, and as a hazard remover is more easy to fit Defog in a team. In my eyes, I don't think Starmie should be added, as it is almost unviable in the current meta.
Thanks for your explanation man!
 

GMars

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I got a few recommendations to possibly add:

Xurkitree to set-up based Stallbreakers (after the vertical bar). It's still in other parts of this role compendium so it's one of the mons that got the "OU VR only" rule exception, and it can threaten Stall easily by setting-up on the bulky waters such as Toxapex or Alomomola, and it can prevent itself from getting walled by Quagsire by running Energy Ball.

Protean Greninja to the Offensive Pivots section. Scarf Protean Gren actually utilizes U-turn much better than Ash-Gren, since it means giving up an important moveslot in Spikes, so it dosen't make sense to have only Ash-Gren there.

Qwilfish to Toxic Spikes users (after the vertical bar). If its in the Spikes users section it should also get a Tspikes user mention too, although it isn't exactly good at utilizing either hazard.

Hydreigon should be removed from the Choice Scarfers section. Specs is the only viable set, and I don't see it actually having a niche with Scarf since there are a lot of better choices for speed control.
Done.

I've updated this resource to this VR post. As always, please let me know if anything's missing or should be added/removed. Thanks!
 
wallbreakers:

removals (physical):



Necrozma has not achieved anything notable as a physical wallbreaker to begin with. The only reason it was added to begin with was because of Photon Geyser and the potential around the move rather than success and viability and should be removed to reflect that. Stakataka struggles to make a noteworthy niche for itself on trick room, as it generally struggles to compete for a teamslot on trick room, which in itself is a fading archetype. Basically it's bad and the compendium should reflect that. Similarly to Stakataka, Zeraora struggles to compete for a teamslot due to it struggling with many common mons in this meta and again, the compendium should reflect this.

additions (physical):


Mega Tyranitar definitely deserves to be added. It pressures the majority of bulky offence builds that rely on simple Fire-Water-Grass defensive cores such as the following or steel + pivot cores that are also pretty common. Mega Ttar is also capable of really annoying common defensive cores on balance, such as Tangrowth + Celesteela and Heatran + Toxapex + Tapu Bulu. Physical Protean Greninja similarly breaks down the same defensive cores, tearing apart similar Fire-Water-Grass cores. I'm going to bring up Zygarde one more time because I still believe it is a wallbreaker. Similarly to the previous submissions, Zygarde has the ability to pressure the same Fire-Water-Grass cores, whilst also pressuring steel + pivot cores that are incredibly common on bulky offence. Additionally, it pressures the majority of balance cores (examples) that can also break past many of its checks. I won't go on about it, because the list of possibilities is huge, but the takeaway from this is that it can break past these checks and these general cores and thus should be added as a breaker.

additions (special):


Kyurem was recently ranked as a wallbreaker thanks to this set which enables it to not only PP stall offensive threats, but to also PP stall these defensive threats, whilst also breaking past them with a boosted Ice Beam or Metronome.

stallbreakers:

additions (setup-based):


Kyurem has a fantastic matchup versus stall due to its ability to PP stall through the combination its ability, Pressure, Substitute and Roost whilst also just pressuring the common walls found on the playstyle thanks to the Metronome . Similarly to Kyurem, both Zapdos and Moltres possess the ability to pressure most common stall builds thanks to their ability, Pressure and in the case of Moltres, the combination of Pressure, Sub and Roost. Ditto essentially has infinite PP through Imposter, and because of that it can also potentially have infinite HP recovery, meaning you can simply switch around infinitely. However, I do not believe that Ditto and Zapdos falls under either category of stallbreaker, so maybe there could be an "other" category that showcases mons with good matchups versus stall, but isn't necessarily a stallbreaker, if you get what I mean.

removals (setup-based):


Refer to the beginning of the post for Necrozma. I really don't see the merit in running Togekiss in this meta, considering that there are so many more consistent options to run as a stallbreaker. Even if you want a compressed stallbreaker and a form of hazard removal, you'd want to run something like Tornadus, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko or Zapdos.

walls:

additions (physically + mixed defensive):

additions (specially + mixed defensive):


Both were recently ranked and should be added in their respective fields.

entry hazards:
additions (stealth rock):


These also run rocks, although Golem doesn't run them as frequently as Aggron and Kommo-o

vr shifts for lazy gmars:

|

unranked:
 

GMars

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wallbreakers:

removals (physical):



Necrozma has not achieved anything notable as a physical wallbreaker to begin with. The only reason it was added to begin with was because of Photon Geyser and the potential around the move rather than success and viability and should be removed to reflect that. Stakataka struggles to make a noteworthy niche for itself on trick room, as it generally struggles to compete for a teamslot on trick room, which in itself is a fading archetype. Basically it's bad and the compendium should reflect that. Similarly to Stakataka, Zeraora struggles to compete for a teamslot due to it struggling with many common mons in this meta and again, the compendium should reflect this.

additions (physical):


Mega Tyranitar definitely deserves to be added. It pressures the majority of bulky offence builds that rely on simple Fire-Water-Grass defensive cores such as the following or steel + pivot cores that are also pretty common. Mega Ttar is also capable of really annoying common defensive cores on balance, such as Tangrowth + Celesteela and Heatran + Toxapex + Tapu Bulu. Physical Protean Greninja similarly breaks down the same defensive cores, tearing apart similar Fire-Water-Grass cores. I'm going to bring up Zygarde one more time because I still believe it is a wallbreaker. Similarly to the previous submissions, Zygarde has the ability to pressure the same Fire-Water-Grass cores, whilst also pressuring steel + pivot cores that are incredibly common on bulky offence. Additionally, it pressures the majority of balance cores (examples) that can also break past many of its checks. I won't go on about it, because the list of possibilities is huge, but the takeaway from this is that it can break past these checks and these general cores and thus should be added as a breaker.

additions (special):


Kyurem was recently ranked as a wallbreaker thanks to this set which enables it to not only PP stall offensive threats, but to also PP stall these defensive threats, whilst also breaking past them with a boosted Ice Beam or Metronome.

stallbreakers:

additions (setup-based):


Kyurem has a fantastic matchup versus stall due to its ability to PP stall through the combination its ability, Pressure, Substitute and Roost whilst also just pressuring the common walls found on the playstyle thanks to the Metronome . Similarly to Kyurem, both Zapdos and Moltres possess the ability to pressure most common stall builds thanks to their ability, Pressure and in the case of Moltres, the combination of Pressure, Sub and Roost. Ditto essentially has infinite PP through Imposter, and because of that it can also potentially have infinite HP recovery, meaning you can simply switch around infinitely. However, I do not believe that Ditto and Zapdos falls under either category of stallbreaker, so maybe there could be an "other" category that showcases mons with good matchups versus stall, but isn't necessarily a stallbreaker, if you get what I mean.

removals (setup-based):


Refer to the beginning of the post for Necrozma. I really don't see the merit in running Togekiss in this meta, considering that there are so many more consistent options to run as a stallbreaker. Even if you want a compressed stallbreaker and a form of hazard removal, you'd want to run something like Tornadus, Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko or Zapdos.

walls:

additions (physically + mixed defensive):

additions (specially + mixed defensive):


Both were recently ranked and should be added in their respective fields.

entry hazards:
additions (stealth rock):


These also run rocks, although Golem doesn't run them as frequently as Aggron and Kommo-o

vr shifts for lazy gmars:

|

unranked:
Appreciated! I’ll update sometime around this weekend.
 
Hello :psyglad:

First off, I'd like to thank GMars for not only running this, but for also letting me run this. It'll be a great challenge to host this and I hope to keep it as frequently updated as possible. Now with that being said, thank you everyone for your input. I've updated the compendium to include this vr update and most of the suggestions from above.

I also want to mention that I will be drastically changing the compendium in the near future, but for now, I wanted announce a few smaller changes that I'll be making. The first and possible most important change I'll be making is that I will be following the VR rule a lot more strictly than GMars. The reason that I've decided to follow this rule is because a lot of previously listed mons honestly felt out of place due to their lack of success. While I'm open for unranked mons to be added to the compendium, it'll require a bit more detail than it previously was. As well as that, I was considering expanding on stallbreakers to include a much larger variety of categories, since taunt-based and setup-based doesn't really showcase all the good stallbreakers in the tier as effectively as one would want, but this is an idea that I probably won't be expanding on for the next few weeks. As always, your contributions are much valued and I thank everyone for helping!
 
This has been updated for Zygarde's ban! Additionally, I've also:


  • Corrected the viability of Lati@s and Terrakion, making them niche picks rather than consistent.
  • Added Scizor to the list of Defensive Pivots.
  • Removed Aerodactyl as a Stealth Rock setter due to its inability to consistently fit it into its movepool.
  • Removed Scolipede from the list of Suicide Leads due to its primary niche being that of a cleaner rather than a suicide lead, which is it an ineffective lead. Subsequently, I've removed it from the list of Spikes and Toxic Spikes setters.
  • Added a note beneath the list of Sticky Web setters, which mentions that all webs setters are niche options to reflect the niche status of the playstyle.
  • Removed Terrakion from the list of choice band users, as its primarily ranked for its sd and scarf sets but should be unranked anyway
  • Removed Garchomp and Gengar from the list of niche scarfers; neither have been used as viable scarfers for a considerable amount of time and do not have established niches.
  • Removed Scizor from the list of pursuit users, as it cannot really utilise Pursuit in its moveset. Additionally, it’s a really bad pursuit trapper.
  • Removed Toxapex from the list of trappers, as Infestation has not been utilised in a long time due to it having trouble fitting it into its moveset.
  • Removed Celesteela from the Agility / etc. users, as offensive steela is horrid.
  • Added Reuniclus to the list of other setup sweepers, as double dance is a good set.
  • Removed Hoopa-U and Keldeo from the list of Z-Move boosters, as neither can really utilise a Z-Move to success and struggles to incorporate it into their respective movesets.
 
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I commonly used this place to build teams, really like the role compilation to more easily tell what pokemon I can use to fill a certain role I've left out in my team. With that said, I have a few minor questions, so I'll appreciate any explainations for these specific slots.

1) Why is Pyukumuku listed under trapper to begin with? I personally have not seen this pokemon at all, and even when I see replays with it, it mostly either does not use any blocking moves, or just doesn't have it in it's moveset.

2) Why is Victini and Tyranitar mentioned as Trick Room abusers? Victini, I can somewhat understand V-Create's speed drop abuse to move first and just spam it, but even so, it is rarely seen even running this set over Choice items or Z-Celebrate, much less seen in TR teams. Tyranitar similarly is never seen on a proper TR team, much less as a wall breaker since there are better and more powerful breakers available.

3) Why is Alolan Golem and Greninja listed under Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes respectively? Alolan Golem is almost never seen in OU,and even when it is, its job is solely to trap and take on Steel-types, meaning it realistically won't want Stealth Rocks since it gives many Steel-types the opportunity to pivot away, set up, or just kill it with Ground-type coverage. Greninja is also rarely seen as a Toxic Spike setter as it honestly will be more beneficial as a revenge killer with Scarf, or utilising nomal spikes when it is needed to (which I personally am kinda against as I don't see that as a good moveslot on Greninja as it needs as much coverage to exploit as possible, tbh). The only mention on this move being used, as far as my limited competitive knowledge goes, is in Gen 6 Ubers as a suicide lead, which in this metagame, would just be a waste of a team slot even in HO, which has better suicide leads such as Landorus-Thedian.
 
1) Why is Pyukumuku listed under trapper to begin with? I personally have not seen this pokemon at all, and even when I see replays with it, it mostly either does not use any blocking moves, or just doesn't have it in it's moveset.
Pyukumuku commonly run Block to trap Pokemon like Clefable and Toxapex to either PP stall them in conjunction with Spite or Toxic stall them with Soak + Toxic.

Why is Alolan Golem and Greninja listed under Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes respectively?
While Alolan Golem is indeed uncommon, it only needs 3 moveslots, so it can be used as a secondary Stealth Rock setter if that is desired. Greninja can use Toxic Spikes for the exact same reasons why it uses Spikes, but it pairs better with Pokemon like Mega Latias and Reuniclus specifically.
 
I commonly used this place to build teams, really like the role compilation to more easily tell what pokemon I can use to fill a certain role I've left out in my team. With that said, I have a few minor questions, so I'll appreciate any explainations for these specific slots.



2) Why is Victini and Tyranitar mentioned as Trick Room abusers? Victini, I can somewhat understand V-Create's speed drop abuse to move first and just spam it, but even so, it is rarely seen even running this set over Choice items or Z-Celebrate, much less seen in TR teams. Tyranitar similarly is never seen on a proper TR team, much less as a wall breaker since there are better and more powerful breakers available.
Tyranitar is one of the best wallbreaker in the Metagame, doesn't need a mega evolution for the job, neither a z move, only a Choice Band, giving you more "free" slots for those things, unlike many of the other mentioned 'mons, has good bulk, allowing it to check key threats such as Heatran, excellent stab in rock moves, and access to Pursuit. As for Trick Room, While it is no longer popular as back in the early days of SM, a player can decide to use a brave CBTar with max hp evs on a Trick Room team, allowing him/her a better matchup vs stall or defensive inclined balanced teams.
 
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Ok, with all the replies I have to my comment, thank you all for answering all my questions. Just a few replies.

Pyukumuku commonly run Block to trap Pokemon like Clefable and Toxapex to either PP stall them in conjunction with Spite or Toxic stall them with Soak + Toxic.


While Alolan Golem is indeed uncommon, it only needs 3 moveslots, so it can be used as a secondary Stealth Rock setter if that is desired. Greninja can use Toxic Spikes for the exact same reasons why it uses Spikes, but it pairs better with Pokemon like Mega Latias and Reuniclus specifically.
Huh, never faced off against this specific pokemon, outside of Protean Greninja, which I also mostly see running Spikes as its choice of hazards instead. With that said, if possible, may I ask where can I find a team build around Toxic Spikes Greninja? Seems like a neat idea to me. Thank you for answering my question.

Tyranitar is one of the best wallbreaker in the Metagame, doesn't need a mega evolution for the job, neither a z move, only a Choice Band, giving you more "free" slots for those things, unlike many of the other mentioned 'mons, has good bulk, allowing it to check key threats such as Heatran, excellent stab in rock moves, and access to Pursuit. As for Trick Room, While it is no longer popular as back in the early days of SM, a player can decide to use a brave CBTar with max hp evs on a Trick Room team, allowing him/her a better matchup vs stall or defensive inclined balanced teams.
I just want to clarify that my idea kinda came out wrong, I know that Tyranitar was a good all-around wallbeaker, I even use him on my teams as a Pursuit trapper and he can dish out good damage, however, I meant that I've never seen him as a TR abuser before. With that said, wow, never knew it was used on TR before, good to know, thank uou.
 
  • Remove Bulu, Serperior and Sableye-Mega from the Taunt-based Stallbreaker section. They cannot really fit Taunt into their sets (Bulu needs a setup move, a recovery option and Superpower. Serperior cannot forgo Glare, and HP Fire & Substitute are better options anyways. Sableye-M also has little flexibility in moveslots).
  • Gengar isn't really consistent anymore and it's severely outclassed by Blacephalon, which is reflected by it low usage. Put it under the Niche section on most sections where it appears.
 
  • Remove Bulu, Serperior and Sableye-Mega from the Taunt-based Stallbreaker section. They cannot really fit Taunt into their sets (Bulu needs a setup move, a recovery option and Superpower. Serperior cannot forgo Glare, and HP Fire & Substitute are better options anyways. Sableye-M also has little flexibility in moveslots).
  • Gengar isn't really consistent anymore and it's severely outclassed by Blacephalon, which is reflected by it low usage. Put it under the Niche section on most sections where it appears.
While I can understand where you're coming from, I can't necessarily agree with these suggestions. While I understand that all three certainly have better sets to utilise, all possess niche sets which are able to utilise taunt and I will not be removing these mons from the list, though I have moved Gengar to the niche section of the compendium. Thanks for the help!

e: also removed p2 as a defensive tr setter, seeing how it's incredibly difficult to fit on an already restrictive playstyle
 
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Stallbreakers:

Taunt-Based:
|

Setup-Based
(♀)
|
Magearna should be added to Setup-based stallbreakers, because the Calm Mind + Pain Split set is extremely effective at doing so. I think Clefable could probably get removed, because every stall team is prepared for it. I'd also consider removing Keldeo from Setup-based stallbreakers, because it's Taunt that allows it to stallbreak(i.e. it can't stallbreak with Calm Mind alone).
 
some suggestions, curi :)

wallbreakers > special
  • move kyurem beyond the bar, as it moved up to b- in the latest vr update: kyurem regular is a pretty deadly wallbreaker really, so moving it beyond the bar feels reasonable.

choice item users > choice scarf
  • add seperior beyond the bar and rotom-w and weavile behind the bar: all of these three have seen some success with their choice scarf sets, especially serperior, so i believe they deserve to be added.
  • remove hoopa-u and latios: both of these are awful users of choice scarf and should, thus, be removed.
  • move keldeo behind the bar, as its choice scarf set is in the other options section: it's overall a really bad set, but not quite as terrible as the two above.

setup sweepers > swords dance
  • move weavile behind the bar, as its swords dance set is in the other options section: i dont think weavile stands up to the other swords dance users and would be better off listed as niche.

setup sweepers > agility / autotomize / rock polish / shift gear
  • move mega diancie, landorus-t, and zapdos behind the bar, as their speed-boosting sets are in the other options section: they're all bad sweepers really, and would be better off doing something else, most of the time.

setup sweepers > other
  • move gastrodon (curse), mega scizor (curse), mega swampert (power-up punch), greninja (work up), ash-greninja (work up), and jirachi (z-move) behind the bar, as their respective sets are in the other options section: all of these are bad options and should be considered as niche in my opinion.
  • delete mega diancie (sharpen): unset, really.

trick room > setters
trick room > exploiters

  • have a not stating they're all niche options: because let's be honest, when was the last time you saw TR on an official tour.
 

TPP

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some suggestions, curi :)

wallbreakers > special
  • move kyurem beyond the bar, as it moved up to b- in the latest vr update: kyurem regular is a pretty deadly wallbreaker really, so moving it beyond the bar feels reasonable.
choice item users > choice scarf
  • add seperior beyond the bar and rotom-w and weavile behind the bar: all of these three have seen some success with their choice scarf sets, especially serperior, so i believe they deserve to be added.
  • remove hoopa-u and latios: both of these are awful users of choice scarf and should, thus, be removed.
  • move keldeo behind the bar, as its choice scarf set is in the other options section: it's overall a really bad set, but not quite as terrible as the two above.
setup sweepers > swords dance
  • move weavile behind the bar, as its swords dance set is in the other options section: i dont think weavile stands up to the other swords dance users and would be better off listed as niche.
setup sweepers > agility / autotomize / rock polish / shift gear
  • move mega diancie, landorus-t, and zapdos behind the bar, as their speed-boosting sets are in the other options section: they're all bad sweepers really, and would be better off doing something else, most of the time.
setup sweepers > other
  • move gastrodon (curse), mega scizor (curse), mega swampert (power-up punch), greninja (work up), ash-greninja (work up), and jirachi (z-move) behind the bar, as their respective sets are in the other options section: all of these are bad options and should be considered as niche in my opinion.
  • delete mega diancie (sharpen): unset, really.
trick room > setters
trick room > exploiters

  • have a not stating they're all niche options: because let's be honest, when was the last time you saw TR on an official tour.
All these fonts got me like :pikuh:
 
Updated to this VR post

Magearna should be added to Setup-based stallbreakers, because the Calm Mind + Pain Split set is extremely effective at doing so. I think Clefable could probably get removed, because every stall team is prepared for it. I'd also consider removing Keldeo from Setup-based stallbreakers, because it's Taunt that allows it to stallbreak(i.e. it can't stallbreak with Calm Mind alone).
Did this a while back, however I did not remove Clefable on the basis that most stall builds have sufficient counterplay for every other breaker listed.

choice item users > choice scarf
  • add seperior beyond the bar and rotom-w and weavile behind the bar: all of these three have seen some success with their choice scarf sets, especially serperior, so i believe they deserve to be added.
  • remove hoopa-u and latios: both of these are awful users of choice scarf and should, thus, be removed.
  • move keldeo behind the bar, as its choice scarf set is in the other options section: it's overall a really bad set, but not quite as terrible as the two above.
setup sweepers > swords dance
  • move weavile behind the bar, as its swords dance set is in the other options section: i dont think weavile stands up to the other swords dance users and would be better off listed as niche.
setup sweepers > agility / autotomize / rock polish / shift gear
  • move mega diancie, landorus-t, and zapdos behind the bar, as their speed-boosting sets are in the other options section: they're all bad sweepers really, and would be better off doing something else, most of the time.
setup sweepers > other
  • move gastrodon (curse), mega scizor (curse), mega swampert (power-up punch), greninja (work up), ash-greninja (work up), and jirachi (z-move) behind the bar, as their respective sets are in the other options section: all of these are bad options and should be considered as niche in my opinion.
  • delete mega diancie (sharpen): unset, really.
trick room > setters
trick room > exploiters

  • have a not stating they're all niche options: because let's be honest, when was the last time you saw TR on an official tour.
I've implemented most of this, although I have made a few edits to the suggestions. I've removed Work Up Greninja and Z-Happy Hour Jirachi entirely, due to neither seeing much use in general. Following these changes, I ended up removing Kyub and Latios from Scarf Users, as there's no real reason to use either in this meta.

Thanks everyone!
 
These are some of my suggestions:
Heal Bell / Aromatherapy:

Remove Mew. I have never seen a Mew run Heal Bell before, no matter in ladder or tournament. There are better clerics on Stall teams like Chansey Clefable or even Alomomola, and Mew is already tight on moveslots.

Entry Hazards:
Stealth Rock:


Suicide Leads:

Shuckle recently got unranked.

Choice Item Users:


Choice Scarf:
< 100 speed:

I think we should move Heatran and Tyranitar to niche. Scarf Tran is horrible to begin with and isn't really seen at all, while Scarf Tyranitar still holds a small niche in outspeeding Scarf Magnezone, Serperior, base 100s, and Garchomp.


Priority:
(Feint)

What niche does Feint have over Quick Attack on Mega Pinsir? It breaks Protect-like moves, but you don't really need it since we don't have any relevant Speed Boost users in OU.


Swords Dance:

Mega Charizard X should be a niche Swords Dance user, because u miss out on the crucial speed boost and can't outspeed Scarf LandoT. It's also not mentioned in the analysis.

Calm Mind:

I genuinely have never seen Calm Mind Mega Diancie anywhere, and I think it's really niche since you get checked by Greninja, Scarf LandoT, and AV Magearna. I tried it several times and have never clicked Calm Mind on it.
 
These are some of my suggestions:
Did most of this, but there's a few things I personally disagree with.

(Feint)

What niche does Feint have over Quick Attack on Mega Pinsir? It breaks Protect-like moves, but you don't really need it since we don't have any relevant Speed Boost users in OU.
You're missing the entire point of Feint on Pinsir - you generally want to use it because it allows Pinsir to out-prioritise Ash Gren's Water Shuriken and basically any other form of faster priority, not to break protects, which rarely - if ever - comes into play at all. Yeah it comes at the cost of some base power and PP, which consequently comes at the cost of consistency, but it's no means the unviable option that you're making it out to be.

Swords Dance:

Mega Charizard X should be a niche Swords Dance user, because u miss out on the crucial speed boost and can't outspeed Scarf LandoT. It's also not mentioned in the analysis.
Again, you're missing the point of Swords Dance. While Dragon Dance does allow you to outspeed stuff like scarf lando, you trade that for the ability to become an immediately threatening wallbreaker. Yeah it obviously isn't as good as DD but it doesn't mean it should be removed entirely. Also just because something is not mentioned on an analysis, it doesn't necessarily mean it's inherently bad, considering that stuff like Metronome Tornadus metronome Hydreigon and fire blast (to name some) aren't mentioned in their respective analyses, even if they are fantastic sets rn.

Changes:

+
mixed wallbreakers (+ stealth rock setters)

In addition to the above, I ended up adding both Mega Garchomp and Kommo-o to the mixed wallbreakers section, seeing as both mons have recently started to run their respective stealth rock + 3 attacks sets.

- stealth rock setters
While you definitely can run rocks on Marowak, I find it to be incredibly difficult to actually use it in practice; considering that Marowak is exclusively run on Trick Room (or should be run anyways), you're more than often going to be running it alongside Uxie, which is absolutely a trick room staple at this point. Additionally, Marowak really wants to abuse the 4 moves that it runs, so there's that as well.

- defog users

Similarly to Marowak, you can ultimately run defog on Thundy-I, but aside from the obvious issue regarding its moveslots, you generally also don't want to be running defog on Hyper Offence, which is the only archetype where you're going to be using Thundurus anyways. Yeah sure you can use it on bulky offence but even then, you have so many better forms of hazard removal; while you do beat setters such as Lando, chomp and Gliscor, you're not really forcing a considerable number of removers out because you're so pressed for moveslots.

Thanks for the input everyone! If you have any disagreements feel free to PM me here or on discord at curi#2758 and I'd be happy to make a few more changes.
 

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Two potentials adds came to my mind while watching this.

The first one, I don't really know how common I would say it is but Defog is definitely an option on volcarona on stall, is it niche probably since it only fits in stalls, as a secondary defoger, which will mostly if not only defog if the opposing rock setter isn't something that pressure it such as clefable, which is an issue if you have only one defoger that doesn't pressure btw. So Imo, it deserve a mention.

The second one is not something I'm sure of but wouldn't kommo-o deserved to be nommed in the set up sweaper as other for his z move and maybe as dragon dancer since I think there are some Z clanger + dragon dance out there ?
 

Ruft

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Azumarill can be a decent niche option on both rain and Trick Room.

I also want to voice what HKT said in that Kommo-o should be listed as a set-up sweeper with Clangorous Soulblaze and/or Dragon Dance.
 

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