Resource Useful LC stuff / Introductions / Simple Questions Simple Answers

macle

sup geodudes
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What is Little Cup, and what makes it different than the other tiers?

Little Cup is a very unique and interesting tier. Unlike other tiers, which are based around level 100 Pokemon, Little Cup plays with Pokemon that are all level 5. Also, Little Cup further restricts the rules to include only Pokemon that can evolve and are the lowest evolution in their evolution chains. This creates a drastically different metagame in Little Cup than from other tiers, and Little Cup contains a lot of Pokemon that you simply would never see used anywhere else in competitive Pokemon. Because of its uniqueness, Little Cup exists in a state of its own-- it has its very own banlist, which means bans made in other tiers don't affect Little Cup at all (for example, Snover was banned in RU but remained legal to use in Little Cup for the entirety of Generation V). It's a ground for baby Pokemon to grit their teeth and show their evolved counterparts how powerful they can be as well.​

How do I play Little Cup? What do I have to know?

Pokemon are only Little Cup legal if they: 1) can evolve; and 2) are the lowest stage in evolution in their chain. For example, Mienfoo, Scraggy, and Onix are Little Cup legal, but Ivysaur and Rotom are not. Little Cup is played at level 5. This creates a new host of breeding issues, EV troubles, and "is this allowed? why or why not?" which will be addressed in this thread. Guides will be posted as well, though keep in mind at this time they are all for BW, so they might be a bit outdated. A complete list of the rules can be found here

How do I get involved with Little Cup?

Great place to talk to fellow lovers of Little Cup is on the Little Cup channel on Pokemon Showdown! When you log on, it'll ask you to choose a channel. Scroll down until you see Little Cup, and join on in! You can also just go there directly! This isn't as popular as our IRC channel is, but we are hoping more people will frequent it and talk in it!​

Finally, one of the best ways to contribute to Little Cup is by posting in the forums! I know that doing so can be intimidating if you aren't that interested in a discussion, or are unsure what to post. Rest assured, Little Cup is a judgment free zone. We recommend and even encourage posting from people of any experience level. Keep in mind that every "good" player started off as a "noob" once. We all get better via practice and via contributing, so please do so to your heart's content. If there's any thread that you want posted, then please don't hesitate to talk to quote, mambo, or I about it. We will give you advice on a thread and generally let you post it! If you are still a little hesitant, use this thread to introduce yourself. Tell us about yourself if you are comfortable doing so, and then post any questions you may have or any requests for help you might need. We'll do our best to get to know you all and answer any questions you may have!

Also, please post in this thread to introduce yourself if you are a new player or lurker, and to ask any questions you may have.

How to Play Little Cup!

It's quite simple! Log on Pokemon Showdown! and ladder! As of right now, under the XY Singles tiers, there is ORAS LC.

Helpful Tips and Tricks!

  • Because Pokemon at level 5 have very low HP values, Leftovers is not a very useful item. An item like Berry Juice, which restores 20 HP in one go, is almost always more valuable than Leftovers. Eviolite is also a very useful item, which boosts the defenses of EVERY Little Cup Pokemon by 1 stage.
  • Even though the playing field seems equal, some baby Pokemon are just better than the rest! Unfortunately, there just isn't really a place for Caterpie, Pidgey, or any of the typical bad Pokemon. For an example, here is a "Viability Ranking List" that was made in Generation 5, that ranked legal Pokemon. We obviously haven't had time to do so for Generation 6 yet, but please take a look if you're curious!
  • EVs work differently at Level 5 than at Level 50 or 100. It just takes more EVs in one stat to boost it by a stat point. This means that a spread like 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed is inefficient. In almost all cases, you will be wasting EVs, as sometimes a Pokemon does not get more Speed if you put in 236 or 196 EVs. The remaining points can go into other stats. Don't feel too intimidated if you see a spread like: 220 HP / 4 Attack / 68 Defense / 4 Special Attack / 148 Special Defense / 16 Speed. It just happens in Little Cup! A full guide to how to give EV spreads in Little Cup can be found here. However, this is quite the difficult guide to reference when building teams, and is for the most mathematically inclined. The EASIEST way to do it is to...just set your Pokemon's level to 5 in the Pokemon Showdown! teambuilder and slide the EV slider until a stat point goes up. Fiddle around with this, and you'll be an EV pro in no time! Likewise, when analyses go up for Little Cup Pokemon, please use the spreads listed!
List of Available Guides and Articles

Use these articles with a grain of salt. They were written for the Generation 5 metagame, and as such are not up to date for Generation 6. We will be writing more articles and Pokemon analyses soon, but we want the metagame to settle first.​

  • A Little Help? This is a thread including articles written by Ray Jay and Ssin that makes getting into XY Little Cup so much easier! I highly recommend checking it out.
  • Little Cup Resource thread - for all your LC needs
  • Guide to LC Move Legality! This article shows how and why a move would be legal or illegal for a Little Cup Pokemon. It is a very handy article if you want to give it a read through. Keep in mind right now that Pokemon you transfer over from the Pokebank in December are not legal right now, but Pokebank LC is still a thing you can play on Pokemon Showdown!
  • Little Did You Know -- A Beginner's Guide to Little Cup! This article was intended to introduce an individual to the Generation 5 Little Cup metagame. As such, much of the information in this article is outdated, but that doesn't mean it's not good for a quick peek or reference.
  • This thread! It was unclear apparently, but this thread is meant to be used as a Simple Questions, Simple Answers kind of thread. If you have a question, ask it here! Don't make a new thread about it.
 
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Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
Is there a Fighting check that can also set up Stealth Rock? The only one I can think of is Archen but that's not a very good Fighting check and I don't know if I want to use Spritzee + a Stealth Rock user because Spritzee is really slow but I do need a win condition on this team I'm building.
 

Merritt

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Is there a Fighting check that can also set up Stealth Rock? The only one I can think of is Archen but that's not a very good Fighting check and I don't know if I want to use Spritzee + a Stealth Rock user because Spritzee is really slow but I do need a win condition on this team I'm building.
Pineco's the only thing that can use Stealth Rock in LC and is both resistant to fighting and not weak to dark. However Pineco's got its own issues, and overall it's not really a fighting check so much as a fighting resist.

Overall there's not much overlap between the two roles, Archen is probably the best rocker that can threaten fighters. Hippopotas does kind of work though, despite not resisting fighting or being overly threatening to fighting types.
 

Berks

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why the batton pass clause ( only one user and cant pass speed + other stat ) is not implemented on LC ?
LC lacks a user of Magic Bounce + Baton Pass as Natu cannot compatibly run both. Not having a Magic Bounce user severely delegitimizes Baton Pass as a strategy as it becomes vulnerable to counter play such as Taunt and Whirlwind. It's not horrifically difficult to stop a Baton Pass chain and it is generally looked down upon in terms of the current meta
 

Six Trails

formerly Analytic_
How does one go about getting Hydro Pump on a level 5 Skrelp in-game without running into legality issues?
 

Merritt

no comment
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How does one go about getting Hydro Pump on a level 5 Skrelp in-game without running into legality issues?
Since Hydro Pump is a level up move on Skrelp, if both parents have Hydro Pump so will the baby Skrelp when it hatches. This is the case for all level up moves, but both parents need to have learned the move (unless it is also an egg move or TM).
 

Six Trails

formerly Analytic_
I see. Thanks. I was confused because Bulbapedia didn't list it as an egg move.

So, just to clarify: Say I wanted a Vulpix with Quick Attack (which it learns at Lv.10). If I bred two Ninetales with Quick Attack, the Vulpix would have Quick Attack upon hatching?
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
What is the best Flying-type + Flying-type core for BirdSpam nowadays? I know Fletchling + Doduo or Taillow + Diglett or Trapinch is still a good core but I've heard good things about Drifloon + Vullaby lately.
 
I personally like Fletchling + Rufflet.
Not even meming here, rufflet takes out steels and bulky mons really well and helps fletch clean up
you'd want to carry something to deal with fast teams if you do use that core, since fletch and rufflet only hit 16 speed (although 15 speed rufflet is better since you max out attack).
Also honedge might be a problem since it walls rufflet really hard
 
Also honedge might be a problem since it walls rufflet really hard
Just popping in to mention Overheat Fletchling as the partner variant for Rufflet. If Honedge is running Evioloite, it has a fairly good chance of being 2hko's, and running Berry Juice risks the ohko more than half of the time after rocks.
 

Six Trails

formerly Analytic_
Does anyone know any HP Grass IV spreads that have 0 HP IVs? Asking because Torchic's analysis says to run 0 HP IVs to minimize Life Orb recoil.
 

The Avalanches

pokemon tcg
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I'm pretty sure you can just run an HP IV of 1 and still keep a Life Orb number. Hidden Power Grass probably requires an odd-numbered HP IV.
 

Celestavian

Smooth
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I haven't checked the math, but if an IV of 1 for HP doesn't cut it, then there is the IV spread 30/31/31/30/31/31 which gives HP Grass and allows for a 0 IV in HP. This seems to be the optimal HP Grass IV spread out of the 4 choices for it anyway since HP and Special Attack are the only IVs affected.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
I personally like Fletchling + Rufflet.
Not even meming here, rufflet takes out steels and bulky mons really well and helps fletch clean up
you'd want to carry something to deal with fast teams if you do use that core, since fletch and rufflet only hit 16 speed (although 15 speed rufflet is better since you max out attack).
Also honedge might be a problem since it walls rufflet really hard
Okay I'm going to try out Fletch and Rufflet, sounds super fun and Rufflet is cute
 

Six Trails

formerly Analytic_
Why is Timid recommended over Hasty on Focus Sash Abra? 36 EVs are already slotted into Atk to make Knock Off stronger, so why not run a nature that doesn't lower Atk? It's not like Abra's Def is something that would need to be preserved.
 

Celestavian

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It's actually pretty rare for Abra to run Knock Off since it would rather have 4 other attacking moves, usually Psychic, HP Fighting, Dazzling Gleam, and Energy Ball. Protect is also usable over Energy Ball, and is much more common than Knock Off. Abra is not a physical attacker by any means, and survivability, even if Abra is already super frail, is infinitely more valuable than dealing a slight bit of extra damage with Knock Off. Plus, anything that Abra could hit with Knock Off is usually hit harder by one of Abra's coverage moves, which are coming off of a much higher attacking stat, with the only exception likely being Honedge. Those extra EVs are slotted there simply because they have little use elsewhere, not because Abra is meant to be dealing damage.

That said, I don't know how Abra has an extra 36 EVs to spend anyway. HP Fighting's IV spread required for it actually prevents Abra from running 36 Attack EVs, since it needs to run 4 extra EVs in Special Attack and Speed to max them out, thus leaving Abra with only 32 extra. Any set that does this is lacking HP Fighting, which is definitely Abra's most important coverage option.
 

Merritt

no comment
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It's actually pretty rare for Abra to run Knock Off since it would rather have 4 other attacking moves, usually Psychic, HP Fighting, Dazzling Gleam, and Energy Ball. Protect is also usable over Energy Ball, and is much more common than Knock Off. Abra is not a physical attacker by any means, and survivability, even if Abra is already super frail, is infinitely more valuable than dealing a slight bit of extra damage with Knock Off. Plus, anything that Abra could hit with Knock Off is usually hit harder by one of Abra's coverage moves, which are coming off of a much higher attacking stat, with the only exception likely being Honedge. Those extra EVs are slotted there simply because they have little use elsewhere, not because Abra is meant to be dealing damage.

That said, I don't know how Abra has an extra 36 EVs to spend anyway. HP Fighting's IV spread required for it actually prevents Abra from running 36 Attack EVs, since it needs to run 4 extra EVs in Special Attack and Speed to max them out, thus leaving Abra with only 32 extra. Any set that does this is lacking HP Fighting, which is definitely Abra's most important coverage option.
Abra's base speed is 90, so it only needs 200 EVs there, meaning there's a floating 68 EVs. These aren't useful anywhere else, but unless you're running Knock Off I wouldn't recommend just throwing them in there. They do increase confusion and Foul Play damage, which is not a good thing if you gain 0 benefit.

36- Atk Abra Confusion Damage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abra: 4-5 (21 - 26.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
0- Atk Abra Confusion Damage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abra: 3-4 (15.7 - 21%) -- possible 5HKO

0- Atk Non-STAB Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abra: 12-16 (63.1 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
36- Atk Non-STAB Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abra: 14-18 (73.6 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0- Atk STAB Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abra: 18-24 (94.7 - 126.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
36- Atk STAB Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abra: 20-26 (105.2 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It won't come up often, but if you're not running Knock Off there's not reason to just always put in 36 EVs.
 

AM

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LCPL Champion
Someone should make a DPP LC Viability Rankings in Ruins of Alph, as in someone who knows it well. Please and thanks.

:toast:
 
oh shit waddup! I'm Spinblade237, more commonly known on PS! as Spinbladetesting, general lurker here in the forums, etc. I posted an RMT awhile back and it was kind of really barebones. I'm planning on writing up another RMT, but before I do so I wanna know how to encorporate hide tags. thanks in advance, even though I should probably ask this question somewhere else lol.
 
oh shit waddup! I'm Spinblade237, more commonly known on PS! as Spinbladetesting, general lurker here in the forums, etc. I posted an RMT awhile back and it was kind of really barebones. I'm planning on writing up another RMT, but before I do so I wanna know how to encorporate hide tags. thanks in advance, even though I should probably ask this question somewhere else lol.
Use
Code:
[hide= *hide tag* ]hide tag[/hide]
Which comes out as
hide tag
 

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