The question is which Pokemon become useless - the ones drop through the bottom tier, or the ones that get stuck in 3.7% usage purgatory and the large banlists that result because lower tiers lose a lot of their utility Pokemon and checks to higher tiers. There's at least the possibility of adding usage tiers if it comes down to it.
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Data Usage-Based Tier Update for Mid-December 2020
- Thread starter Marty
- Start date
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I think the point of these is that while they are indeed and put pokemon in tiers they are too good for, the pokemon themselves will rise naturally due to their inherent good qualities in the tiers above. This is essentially what happens at the start of every generation, except due to the exceptional circumstances of dlc, you have to experience it two more times. These things will just take time to sort themselves out and the natural order will correct itself eventually
Imo the current cutoff was great at the start of the generation with the much smaller dex size because it allows the lower tiers to be filled, but I personally do not find it as optimal once more Pokemon gets added. If we get the complete pokedex back, whether it be later in the generation or gen 9, I think that the cutoff should be lowered.
I personally believe that an ideal cutoff should be based on the viability rankings. Ideally, you would want the cutoff to keep as many S to B-rank Pokémon as possible because those Pokémon are what represents the tier. Of course, usage ≠ viability, but there is still a correlation between the two. It’s fine if a few Pokémon from the A and B ranks don’t reach the cutoff, but I feel like there should be a limit. Take for example the number A and B-ranked Pokémon that are not UU by usage for gens 7 and 8:
Only 31% of the S to B-ranked Pokémon in gen 7 UU are not UU by usage, while 44% of the current S to B-ranked UU are not UU by usage. Also, if you compare the two lists, gen 8 has more non-RU/RUBL Pokémon in the B-ranks, while gen 7 only has one (Seismitoad). And this is just UU. I wanted to do another comparison with gen 7 and gen 8’s NU but NU is still currently developing. However, looking at their preliminary viability list, it already has a lot of Pokémon that are not NU by usage.
I’m too lazy to do further research, but I noticed that a higher champion pool and higher cutoff equals a lower power difference between two tiers. This is especially true for lower tiers. It’s normal for a few Pokemon like Quagsire or Rhyperior to be viable in multiple tiers, but if many of Pokémon are still viable in tiers above their own, is there really a point in making a lower tier? This generation has way more lower tiered Pokémon that have viability on 3 tiers. Heck, Roserade is on the viability list of 4 tiers and is considered not just niche, but good on NU and RU (see their preliminary viability rankings here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/post-dlc2-viability-list.3674578/ and https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ru-tundra-viability-list.3674208/). I just started trying out NU recently and the gap from RU is honestly not as big as I expected it to be. Would it really be bad for like 2 to 5 more Pokémon to avoid the cutoff if those Pokémon are viable in that tier?
This is quite subjective, but if I were to rate OU and PU’s power level during the Home meta, I would rate OU as a 9 and PU as a 3. With the release of the DLCs, OU is now a 10 in power level while PU is somewhere around 6. A lot of OU’s top Pokémon in the Home meta like Clefable, Ferrothorn, Pex, Dragapult, Mandibuzz, etc. are still really good even today. While some of their top threats did fall in viability (Zeraora, Rotom-H, and Kyurem to name a few), most of them only went as low as UU (a few went to RU but I think they all either rose to UU or got banned), which warrants OU only a one point increase in power level. Meanwhile, PU’s top Pokémon on the Home meta were G-Rapidash, Throh, and Stunfisk. Their VR even had a lot of NFEs in it, which is why I rated their power level as a 3. They still don’t have a preliminary viability list for DLC2, but looking at their new drops and unbans, I decided to give them a 6 in terms of power level because a lot of their new Pokémon were previously as high as UU before the DLCs arrived, so the lower tiers definitely got power crept harder than OU. Again, I’m too lazy to do further research, but this does somewhat clarify what I said that a higher champion pool and higher cutoff equals a lower power difference between two tiers. There was a considerable power difference between gen 7’s tiers and the pre-DLC metas because of the lower cutoff and lower champion pool, respectively.
I may be wrong though. The DLCs and new toy syndrome is definitely another factor that may have led to the increased power level and it’s unfair to completely blame the lower tiers’ massive power creep on the cutoff since they are still developing. Some of the underrated Pokémon would most likely rise again to their deserved tiers. However, if all tiers develop and the power difference between lower tiers still remain small, I genuinely hope the cutoff lowers once more Pokémon gets added to allow for a noticeable power difference between two tiers. Saving a few Pokémon from dropping for every tier would also avoid power creeping the lowest tiers and allow the weakest Pokémon to find some niche since that means like 20 Pokémon don’t go one tier lower.
Also how the heck do you add a hyperlink to a text.
I personally believe that an ideal cutoff should be based on the viability rankings. Ideally, you would want the cutoff to keep as many S to B-rank Pokémon as possible because those Pokémon are what represents the tier. Of course, usage ≠ viability, but there is still a correlation between the two. It’s fine if a few Pokémon from the A and B ranks don’t reach the cutoff, but I feel like there should be a limit. Take for example the number A and B-ranked Pokémon that are not UU by usage for gens 7 and 8:
slowbro-mega
Kyurem
Nidoqueen
Slowbro
rhyperior
blastoise
florges
diancie
houndoom
pyukumuku
roserade
tsareena
araquanid
bewear
bronzing
heracross
mantine
mienshao
necrozma
sceptile mega
seismitoad
stakataka
22/70 Pokémon
Source: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usum-uu-viability-ranking-thread-v3.3641346/
Kyurem
Nidoqueen
Slowbro
rhyperior
blastoise
florges
diancie
houndoom
pyukumuku
roserade
tsareena
araquanid
bewear
bronzing
heracross
mantine
mienshao
necrozma
sceptile mega
seismitoad
stakataka
22/70 Pokémon
Source: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usum-uu-viability-ranking-thread-v3.3641346/
Kyurem
Diggersby
Thundurus
Volcanion
Chandelure
Haxorus
Rhyperior
Slowbro-g
Suicune
Togekiss
Cobalion
Ditto
Doublade
Gastrodon
Mimikyu
Necrozma
Obstagoon
Reuniclus
Scolipede
Torkoal
Venusaur
Diancie
Durant
Quagsire
Ribombee
Seismtoad
Shuckle
Stakataka
Starmie
Sylveon
Toxtricity
Weezing-g
Zarude
33/75 Pokémon
Source: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-uu-crown-tundra-viability-ranking-thread.3674793/
Diggersby
Thundurus
Volcanion
Chandelure
Haxorus
Rhyperior
Slowbro-g
Suicune
Togekiss
Cobalion
Ditto
Doublade
Gastrodon
Mimikyu
Necrozma
Obstagoon
Reuniclus
Scolipede
Torkoal
Venusaur
Diancie
Durant
Quagsire
Ribombee
Seismtoad
Shuckle
Stakataka
Starmie
Sylveon
Toxtricity
Weezing-g
Zarude
33/75 Pokémon
Source: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-uu-crown-tundra-viability-ranking-thread.3674793/
I’m too lazy to do further research, but I noticed that a higher champion pool and higher cutoff equals a lower power difference between two tiers. This is especially true for lower tiers. It’s normal for a few Pokemon like Quagsire or Rhyperior to be viable in multiple tiers, but if many of Pokémon are still viable in tiers above their own, is there really a point in making a lower tier? This generation has way more lower tiered Pokémon that have viability on 3 tiers. Heck, Roserade is on the viability list of 4 tiers and is considered not just niche, but good on NU and RU (see their preliminary viability rankings here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/post-dlc2-viability-list.3674578/ and https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ru-tundra-viability-list.3674208/). I just started trying out NU recently and the gap from RU is honestly not as big as I expected it to be. Would it really be bad for like 2 to 5 more Pokémon to avoid the cutoff if those Pokémon are viable in that tier?
This is quite subjective, but if I were to rate OU and PU’s power level during the Home meta, I would rate OU as a 9 and PU as a 3. With the release of the DLCs, OU is now a 10 in power level while PU is somewhere around 6. A lot of OU’s top Pokémon in the Home meta like Clefable, Ferrothorn, Pex, Dragapult, Mandibuzz, etc. are still really good even today. While some of their top threats did fall in viability (Zeraora, Rotom-H, and Kyurem to name a few), most of them only went as low as UU (a few went to RU but I think they all either rose to UU or got banned), which warrants OU only a one point increase in power level. Meanwhile, PU’s top Pokémon on the Home meta were G-Rapidash, Throh, and Stunfisk. Their VR even had a lot of NFEs in it, which is why I rated their power level as a 3. They still don’t have a preliminary viability list for DLC2, but looking at their new drops and unbans, I decided to give them a 6 in terms of power level because a lot of their new Pokémon were previously as high as UU before the DLCs arrived, so the lower tiers definitely got power crept harder than OU. Again, I’m too lazy to do further research, but this does somewhat clarify what I said that a higher champion pool and higher cutoff equals a lower power difference between two tiers. There was a considerable power difference between gen 7’s tiers and the pre-DLC metas because of the lower cutoff and lower champion pool, respectively.
OU Home: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-viability-ranking-thread-pre-dlc.3658351/
PU Home: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-pu-viability-rankings.3662231/
OU DLC2: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-dlc2-viability-ranking-thread-read-post-84.3674058/
PU DLC2: None atm, but you can look at the new drops yourself
PU Home: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-pu-viability-rankings.3662231/
OU DLC2: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-dlc2-viability-ranking-thread-read-post-84.3674058/
PU DLC2: None atm, but you can look at the new drops yourself
I may be wrong though. The DLCs and new toy syndrome is definitely another factor that may have led to the increased power level and it’s unfair to completely blame the lower tiers’ massive power creep on the cutoff since they are still developing. Some of the underrated Pokémon would most likely rise again to their deserved tiers. However, if all tiers develop and the power difference between lower tiers still remain small, I genuinely hope the cutoff lowers once more Pokémon gets added to allow for a noticeable power difference between two tiers. Saving a few Pokémon from dropping for every tier would also avoid power creeping the lowest tiers and allow the weakest Pokémon to find some niche since that means like 20 Pokémon don’t go one tier lower.
Also how the heck do you add a hyperlink to a text.
The cutoff raise was decided on before dexit was even announced, and if I recall correctly was chosen so that once tiers were in place, rises would be less common to avoid fucking over lower tiers from a fad in higher tiers. It also helps mons that are trapped in tiers where they just aren't viable (see Jolteon last gen).
From what I've learned so far, the negative effects of a higher cutoff will be offset by bans. Lower cutoff? You can't exactly kick down an non-viable Pokemon down a tier.
You just need to get into a council to be able to ban Pokemon you don't like.
PS.
On New Year's Day, the ZU council need to reconvene as to prepare for the 40+ mons dropping into their tier. It'll likely be announced between 7:16 am-1:53 pm Eastern.
You just need to get into a council to be able to ban Pokemon you don't like.
PS.
On New Year's Day, the ZU council need to reconvene as to prepare for the 40+ mons dropping into their tier. It'll likely be announced between 7:16 am-1:53 pm Eastern.
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