Update to "All About Stats, Training, and Breeding in RBY / GSC"

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Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.
NixHex's old stat guide for RBY and GSC lacked a few RBY-related discoveries that came up over the past few years, so this post aims to update the guide accordingly. Hopefully Enigami can verify that what I've written is accurate, RBY stat quirks are honestly some of the weirdest things I have ever looked at. I've also trimmed down most of the super technical stuff since it's simply out of the scope of the article I'm aiming to modify.

The following should outright replace the Stat Exp. training section; this uses some parts of his writing as well.
Stat Exp. Training

Training for Stat Exp. is a grueling task, but with patience and a lot of time, it is very much possible. First, give Vitamins to the Pokemon you wish to train until you receive the message "It won't have any effect." This should take 10 or fewer Vitamins. This brings your Pokemon's Stat Exp. to 25600 in each stat, meaning 37,904 remains. The next step is to find a convenient area to complete your Pokemon's training. This should be an area with a high encounter rate for a singular Pokemon, which makes it easy to keep track of the stat gains. Ideally, this Pokemon should be easily OHKOed as well.

It's worth noting that unlike in later generations, Pokemon continue to gain Stat Exp. at level 100, but it isn't recalculated if it stays in the party. However, by depositing a Pokemon in the PC and withdrawing it, the stats are recalculated; this is known as the "box trick."(period inside) As a result, the accrued Stat Exp. can then be applied.

RBY
RBY has no truly easy way to train Stat Exp. in RBY, as unlike GSC, there isn't a single area with the same Pokemon to encounter constantly outside of Diglett's Cave. Typically, it's best to go to a route where every encountered Pokemon is easily KOed by the one you're using.
mewtwo-trimmy.png

However, there is one quirk with the game's Exp. All due to how it divides experience among Pokemon; it is possible to erase Exp. gain from battles and even divide certain stat gains down to 0. The catch, however, is that Exp. All training methods will take an exceedingly long time, as the stats gained will be in single-digit increments. Regardless, there are three legitimate uses for this tedium.

With the prior details in mind, using Route 1 Pokemon and 2 battle participants among 6 party members will allow for even the lowest-level Pokemon available to gain max Stat Exp. while not gaining Exp. in the process. This technically makes a level 5 Rattata with 65535 Stat Exp. in every stat perfectly legal if someone wanted to go through the agony of training one. It also means that, should you aim to conquer the level-limited cups in Pokemon Stadium, this is technically a route to go down.
magikarp-trimmy.png

To train for 0 Attack, Magikarp fished up with the Old Rod are perfect candidates, as they're level 5 with terrible base Attack. With 1 battle participant and 6 party members, the party will receive 1 HP, 4 Defense, 1 Special, and 6 Speed Stat Exp., but the all-important 0 Attack is there. Thus, it is possible to set up a Pokemon like Chansey to receive minimal confusion damage and Struggle recoil. It will just take an exceedingly long time to finish, as it will result in needing to KO 37,904 Magikarp to get max stats in everything after Vitamins.
caterpie-trimmy.png

Some Pokemon possess such titanic stats that it is possible for them to experience an integer overflow from a stat drop if they boost past 999 prior, resulting in stats dropping from 999 to 23 or less. This most frequently happens to a max stat Mewtwo if it uses Amnesia more than twice and then experiences a Special drop from Psychic. However, this is avoidable through not having Mewtwo exceed 341 Special. The best way to do this, once that number is reached, is to KO Caterpie in Viridian Forest, wherein 2 battle participants and 6 party members alongside the Exp. All will result in +1 to all Stat Exp. except Special. Ergo, however, 37,904 Caterpies have to be culled after Vitamins to reach max stats. Similarly, Pokemon like Pinsir can utilize the Magikarp genocide method from before to prevent integer overflows on their end.

GSC
Spr_2g_201F-trimmy.png

In GSC, Ruins of Alph satisfies this requirement; only Unown are to be found, and they are so pathetically weak and slow that your Pokemon should be able to OHKO them every turn. Recall that Unown's base stats are 48 HP / 72 Atk / 48 Def / 72 Spc / 48 Spe. These numbers are very low, but remember, this area is ideal for its ease of use, as Unown is very weak.

With the remaining Stat Exp. after Vitamins factored in, the amount of Unown you must face are:
HP, Def, Spe: 37,904 / 48 = 790 battles
Atk, Spc: 37,904 / 72 = 527 battles

Say that the Pokemon that you are raising has two attacking moves with 15 PP each. This allows you to defeat 30 Unown before you have to go back to the Pokemon Center to restore the Pokémon's PP. To put this into perspective, you will need to travel to Ruins of Alph 27 times for HP, Defense, and Speed, and 18 times for Attack and Special for each Pokemon you train.

This should be a new section but I am not sure where you'd want to put it. Probably along with the other DV sections.
RBY's Illegal DVs
tauros.png

Many Pokemon games have strange problems with IV generation, and RBY's DVs are no exception. These have a decently large impact on competitive play, with Pokemon such as OU's tier-king Tauros being among those affected. The reason this occurs is because the game pulls encounter rates when going through its RNG rituals, resulting in predictable—but also limited—DV spreads, which does not include the sacred all-15s. In fact, DV spreads that translate to shininess are also largely unobtainable. Ergo, to get max DVs or shiny Pokemon, they must be obtained through GSC.

Because this issue is tied to each area's encounter rates, a Pokemon's possible DV spreads can be somewhat reasonably deduced. For example, Route 1 has an encounter rate of 25—that's a 25/256 chance to encounter something per step in tall grass. Every Pokemon in that route will use the same pool of DVs. This happens because of the way the game applies this rate to randomness; in this context, while there are technically 65535 DV combinations, only 6400 (65535 * 25 / 256) will be used in this scenario, although it can vary a bit by machine cycles. Naturally, any area with random encounters—and thus encounter rates—result in this conundrum. Notably, Pokemon such as Chansey and Exeggutor are affected by this, being only obtainable in the Safari Zone.

haunter.png

Now, some Pokemon have a get out of jail free card from this weirdness thanks to being obtained in scenarios outside of random encounters. These can include being gifted, traded, or even fished. Additionally, Pokemon Stadium's event Pokemon and anything obtained via the Mew Glitch will also roll DVs without limitations, allowing for them to circumvent problematic DV distribution. Thus, the following scenarios can allow for max DVs to be obtained without issue; naturally, while this goes without saying, all Pokemon that can evolve will keep their DV spreads: (colon)
  • Gift Pokemon: :bulbasaur::charmander::squirtle::pikachu::magikarp::omanyte::kabuto::aerodactyl::hitmonlee::hitmonchan::eevee::lapras:
  • Old Rod: :magikarp:
  • Good Rod: :poliwag::goldeen:
  • Super Rod: :psyduck::poliwag::tentacool::slowpoke::shellder::krabby::horsea::goldeen::staryu::dratini:
  • Game Corner Prizes: :abra::clefairy::nidorina::pikachu::horsea::vulpix::wigglytuff::dratini::scyther::pinsir::porygon:
  • In-Game Trades (RB): :mr-mime::nidoran-f::nidorina::lickitung::jynx::farfetchd::electrode::tangela::seel:
  • In-Game Trades (Yellow): :mr-mime::machoke::dugtrio::parasect::rhydon::dewgong::muk:
  • Stationary Encounters: :snorlax::articuno::zapdos::moltres::mewtwo:
  • Stadium Distributions: :bulbasaur::charmander::squirtle::hitmonlee::hitmonchan::eevee::omanyte::kabuto::psyduck:
  • Events: :mew: | :fearow:(Japan Only) :rapidash: (Japan Only)
Additionally, Japanese Blue has alterations will allow for the following to also apply:
  • In Japanese Blue, Clefable and Dragonair can be obtained from the Game Corner as prizes, allowing them to be obtained with max DVs without evolving Clefairy or Dratini. Though, this is minor.
  • In Japanese Blue, Kangaskhan, Tauros, Haunter, and Graveler can be obtained via in-game trades, which are the only methods in which these Pokemon can be obtained with max DVs. Slowpoke can also be obtained in this way.
Mew's DVs have historically been fixed to a seemingly random set of values at each event, oftentimes middling; ergo, on Game Boy cartridge, a legitimate max DV Mew obtained from an event has never been documented. However, a max DV Mew was distributed at events when Generation I was released on Virtual Console, and the Mew Glitch can still be used to get fully random DVs until a perfect one is caught, so it is possible to get one through either of these means.
 
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Nix_Hex

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Glad to see this article getting an update, but reading the Mewtwo Amnesia section is giving me flashbacks on how much of a PITA this was to write the first time around. I admire your courage.

As for the technical information, I’ve seen this very article stickied in other communities like glitch cities specifically for that information. I humbly suggest it remain, but in its own section at the end called “Technical Information” or whatever. That way it’s “out of the way” for casual players but doesn’t break the link for people who still use it.
 
RBY has no truly easy way to train Stat Exp. in RBY, as unlike GSC, there isn't a single area with the same Pokemon to encounter constantly.
This isn't true. Diglett's cave exists, and even though there are technically 2 different Pokemon, Dugtrio will always give more Stat EXP than Diglett, so it's a non issue.

Also, it might be worth adding event distributions (This adds Rapidash and Fearow) as well as RG trades (This adds Tauros, Gengar and Slowbro but only for RG formats, so it might not be a huge deal).
 
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Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.
As for the technical information, I’ve seen this very article stickied in other communities like glitch cities specifically for that information. I humbly suggest it remain, but in its own section at the end called “Technical Information” or whatever. That way it’s “out of the way” for casual players but doesn’t break the link for people who still use it.
Ah, I think you misunderstand, I didn't actually remove anything you previously wrote, this is more of an addendum! Sorry, sorry.

This isn't true. Diglett's cave exists, and even though there are technically 2 different Pokemon, Dugtrio will always give more Stat EXP than Diglett, so it's a non issue.

Also, it might be worth adding event distributions (This adds Rapidash and Fearow) as well as RG trades (This adds Tauros, Gengar and Slowbro but only for RG formats, so it might not be a huge deal).
I'll add these tomorrow for sure!
 
Ah, I think you misunderstand, I didn't actually remove anything you previously wrote, this is more of an addendum! Sorry, sorry.


I'll add these tomorrow for sure!
Oh also Mew also for events

i guess that should have been the obvious one :psycry:

EDIT: Can event pokemon have perfect IVs? How are they created? I'd assume they are, but who knows
 
Last edited:

Plague von Karma

Banned deucer.
Sorted this, the trade thing was actually already covered by the Japanese Blue statements.
EDIT: Can event pokemon have perfect IVs? How are they created? I'd assume they are, but who knows
They are not subject to the encounter rate RNG uses, thus the full 1-65535 call range, allowing perfect DVs.

However, a max DV Mew has never been documented outside of Virtual Console events. I documented this in detail in my edits.
 

shiny finder

forever searching
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Chatot Wrangler
talked on discord and this seems to be ok to move forward. Did a quick GP below, and since this is just an update thru the scms you should be good to go after implementing. (sorry I lost your sprites in the process)

add remove comment
The following should outright replace the Stat Exp. training section; this uses some parts of his writing as well.
Stat Exp. Training
Training for Stat Exp. is a grueling task, but with patience and a lot of time, it is very much possible. First, give Vitamins to the Pokemon you wish to train until you receive the message "It won't have any effect." This should take 10 or fewer Vitamins. This brings your Pokemon's Stat Exp. to 25600 in each stat, meaning 37904 remains. The next step is to find a convenient area to complete your Pokemon's training. This should be an area with a high encounter rate for a singular Pokemon, which makes it easy to keep track of the stat gains. Ideally, this Pokemon should be easily OHKOed as well.

It's worth noting that unlike in later generations, Pokemon continue to gain Stat Exp. at level 100, but it isn't recalculated if it stays in the party. However, by depositing a Pokemon in the PC and withdrawing it, the stats are recalculated; this is known as the "box trick."(period inside) As a result, the accrued Stat Exp. can then be applied.

RBY
RBY has no truly easy way to train Stat Exp. in RBY, as unlike GSC, there isn't a single area with the same Pokemon to encounter constantly outside of Diglett's Cave. Typically, it's best to go to a route where every encountered Pokemon is easily KOed by the one you're using.
View attachment 395979
However, there is one quirk with the game's Exp. All (RC) due to how it divides Experience experience among Pokemon; it is possible to erase Exp. gain from battles and even divide certain stat gains down to 0. The catch, however, is that Exp. All training methods will take an exceedingly long time, as the stats gained will be in single-digit increments. Regardless, there are three legitimate uses for this tedium.

With the prior details in mind, using Route 1 Pokemon and 2 battle participants among 6 party members will allow for even the lowest-level Pokemon available to gain max Stat Exp. while not gaining Exp. in the process. This technically makes a level 5 Rattata with 65535 Stat Exp. in every stat perfectly legal if someone wanted to go through the agony of training one. It also means that, should you aim to conquer the level-limited cups in Pokemon Stadium, this is technically a route to go down.
View attachment 395977
To train for 0 Attack, Magikarp fished up with the Old Rod are perfect candidates, as they're level 5 with terrible base Attack. With 1 battle participant and 6 party members, the party will receive 1 HP, 4 Defense, 1 Special, and 6 Speed Stat Exp., but the all-important 0 Attack is there. Thus, it is possible to set up a Pokemon like Chansey to receive minimal confusion damage and Struggle recoil. It will just take an exceedingly long time to finish, as it will result in needing to KO 37,904 Magikarp to get max stats in everything after Vitamins.
View attachment 395978
Some Pokemon possess such titanic stats that it is possible for them to experience an integer overflow from a stat drop if they boost past 999 prior, resulting in stats dropping from 999 to 23 or less. This most frequently happens to a max stat Mewtwo if it uses Amnesia more than twice (RC) and then experiences a Special drop from Psychic. However, this is avoidable through not having Mewtwo exceed 341 Special. The best way to do this, once that number is reached, is to KO Caterpie in Viridian Forest, wherein 2 battle participants and 6 party members alongside the Exp. All will result in +1 to all Stat Exp. except Special. Ergo, however, 37.904 Caterpies have to be culled after Vitamins to reach max stats. Similarly, Pokemon like Pinsir can utilize the Magikarp genocide method from before to prevent integer overflows on their end.

is this 37 or 37k? I'm guessing the latter, in which case should use , over . #murica

GSC
View attachment 395976
In GSC, Ruins of Alph satisfies this requirement; only Unown are to be found, and they are so pathetically weak and slow that your Pokemon should be able to OHKO them every turn. Recall that Unown's base stats are 48 HP / 72 Atk / 48 Def / 72 Spc / 48 Spe. These numbers are very low, but remember, this area is ideal for its ease of use, as Unown is very weak.

With the remaining Stat Exp. after Vitamins factored in, the amount of Unown you must face are:
HP, Def, Spe: 37904 / 48 = 790 battles
Atk, Spc: 37904 / 72 = 527 battles

Say that the Pokemon that you are raising has two attacking moves with 15 PP each. This allows you to defeat 30 Unown before you have to go back to the Pokemon Center to restore the Pokémon's PP. To put this into perspective, you will need to travel to Ruins of Alph 27 times for HP, Defense, and Speed, and 18 times for Attack and Special for each Pokemon you train.

This should be a new section but I am not sure where you'd want to put it. Probably along with the other DV sections.
RBY's Illegal DVs
View attachment 395974
Many Pokemon games have strange problems with IV generation, and RBY's DVs are no exception. These have a decently large impact on competitive play, with Pokemon such as OU's tier-king Tauros being among those affected. The reason this occurs is because the game pulls encounter rates when going through its RNG rituals, resulting in predictable—but also limited—DV spreads, which does not include the sacred all-15s. In fact, DV spreads that translate to shininess are also largely unobtainable. Ergo, to get max DVs or shiny Pokemon, they must be obtained through GSC.

Because this issue is tied to each area's encounter rates, a Pokemon's possible DV spreads can be somewhat reasonably deduced. For example, Route 1 has an encounter rate of 25—that's a 25/256 chance to encounter something per step in tall grass. (AP) Every Pokemon in that route will use the same pool of DVs. This happens because of the way the game applies this rate to randomness; in this context, while there are technically 65535 DV combinations, only 6400 (65535 * 25 / 256) will be used in this scenario, although it can vary a bit by machine cycles. Naturally, any area with random encounters—and thus encounter rates—result in this conundrum. Notably, Pokemon such as Chansey and Exeggutor are affected by this, being only obtainable in the Safari Zone.

View attachment 395975
Now, some Pokemon have a get out of jail free card from this weirdness (RC) thanks to being obtained in scenarios outside of random encounters. These can include being gifted, traded, or even fished. Additionally, Pokemon Stadium's event Pokemon and anything obtained via the Mew Glitch will also roll DVs without limitations, allowing for them to circumvent problematic DV distribution. Thus, the following scenarios can allow for max DVs to be obtained without issue; naturally, while this goes without saying, all Pokemon that can evolve will keep their DV spreads: (colon)
  • Gift Pokemon: :bulbasaur::charmander::squirtle::pikachu::magikarp::omanyte::kabuto::aerodactyl::hitmonlee::hitmonchan::eevee::lapras:
  • Old Rod: :magikarp:
  • Good Rod: :poliwag::goldeen:
  • Super Rod: :psyduck::poliwag::tentacool::slowpoke::shellder::krabby::horsea::goldeen::staryu::dratini:
  • Game Corner Prizes: :abra::clefairy::nidorina::pikachu::horsea::vulpix::wigglytuff::dratini::scyther::pinsir::porygon:
  • In-Game Trades (RB): :mr-mime::nidoran-f::nidorina::lickitung::jynx::farfetchd::electrode::tangela::seel:
  • In-Game Trades (Yellow): :mr-mime::machoke::dugtrio::parasect::rhydon::dewgong::muk:
  • Stationary Encounters: :snorlax::articuno::zapdos::moltres::mewtwo:
  • Stadium Distributions: :bulbasaur::charmander::squirtle::hitmonlee::hitmonchan::eevee::omanyte::kabuto::psyduck:
  • Events: :mew: | :fearow:(Japan Only) :rapidash: (Japan Only)
Additionally, Japanese Blue has alterations will allow for the following to also apply: (colon)
  • In Japanese Blue, Clefable and Dragonair can be obtained from the Game Corner as prizes, allowing them to be obtained with max DVs without evolving Clefairy or Dratini. (AP) Though, (AC) this is minor.
  • In Japanese Blue, Kangaskhan, Tauros, Haunter, and Graveler can be obtained via in-game trades, which are the only methods in which these Pokemon can be obtained with max DVs. Slowpoke can also be obtained in this way.
Mew's DVs have historically been fixed to a seemingly random set of values at each event, oftentimes middling; ergo, on Game Boy cartridge, a legitimate max DV Mew obtained from an event has never been documented. However, a max DV Mew was distributed at events when Generation I was released on Virtual Console, and the Mew Glitch can still be used to get fully random DVs until a perfect one is caught, so it is possible to get one through either of these means.
 
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