Unpopular opinions

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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N can't be a well-executed character if he is a great rival, or a rival at all.

He unknowingly became the very thing he tried to fight off against well before the climax of the game.

If you say he challenges you to reaffirm that he's right I'll need to inform that based on his own philosophy, he's sacrificing the well-being of his own Pokémon to do so, making it seem as if he cared more about his selfish ideologies than he did about his Pokémon.
It's almost as if N was being manipulated the entirety of Black & White to follow a false ideology set by someone who's true intention was taking over the region (& maybe the world) via making a false messiah. The ideology in question that Pokemon were mistreated by people and thus people & Pokemon should be separated; however from the average point of view the reality is generally the opposite, that people and Pokemon peacefully coexistent and help one another, except a handful of humans which do harm Pokemon (some whom are part of those enforcing the ideology*). Said ideology includes Pokemon battles aren't good, and while they would likely justify their action saying they need to act within the rules of the society they wish to change to achieve their goal, also ignores the Pokemon feelings that they like to battle as that's a way they get stronger and form closer bonds with people.

Honestly, with that last point, this isn't just a N problem but a problem anyone part of Team Plasma would have if they joined because they genuinely love Pokemon and personally had experienced a moment which they would be led to believe there's a lot of Pokemon abuse underneath the skin of Pokemon society. B2W2 showed there were "two sides" of Team Plasma this entire time, broken down to followers of Ghetsis and followers of N, but if you really think about it there would have to be more tiers of grunt-types. Like I can't imagine all members would be cool with the idea of attacking the Pokemon League, heck some may disagree that N becoming Champion as it wouldn't mean much to the people who are hurting Pokemon for selfish gain.

But this is generally the problem with Gen V in a nutshell, in particular with Team Plasma. There's a LOT of things which would be going on with Team Plasma in the background due to how they present themselves. The sheer lengths Ghetsis would have to go in order to hide his true plans from not only the public eye but also most of Team Plasma (while convincing them to do what he wants) and N (and most of the Sages; the only members of Team Plasma who seems to know Ghetsis true plans are the Shadow Triad (who owe their lives to Ghetsis in some way so don't care if they're evil), and maybe Anthea & Concordia (who are in a similar situation as N but powerless to do anything)). But forcing it into the typical Pokemon adventure without diverting too far off course with what the player would see leads it undercooked.

* Typing this, I do wonder what would N have done with the grunts who were beating up the Munna had he found out about that incident? Actually, those two grunts do feel out-of-place now thinking about the grand picture, they're the only ones who were shown hurting a Pokemon. Not saying there aren't more grunts like them, B2W2 implies Neo Team Plasma is made up of said grunts who only joined for the power, but with no other grunts shown acting that counter to their cause makes it look like those two were an accident; only existing for a story point to show the player that Team Plasma are up to no good (even though that becomes very clear later on when they begin stealing people's Pokemon).
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
Koraidon (and presumably Miraidon) are easily the best execution of "box legendary" in Pokémon's full history (not spoilering because I don't think anything here is a spoiler really).

Box legendaries historically have filled the deus ex machina role. You don't see them for most of the game, then after the 7th badge usually, the villain tries to destroy / rebuild the world using the power of the legendary and you have to catch the legendary to protect the world or something. That's like, fine, and makes the box legendaries feel very powerful, but also it makes it difficult to care about them beyond that. Maybe you use them to steamroll the remaining few bosses in the game, though even that's a bit wonky sometimes and they're not always able to. You can't really use them to stomp every regular trainer, since legendaries' signature and generally most powerful moves have notoriously terrible PP.

Enter SV. The box legend is a constant feature of the adventure, but remains feeling powerful such as it being able to take itself out of its PokéBall at any time during cutscenes and the like. Each time it powers up it can swim, or glide, or run, steadily building up its sense of power over the course of the game. And it's also adorable. Koraidon loves sandwiches, and licks humans' faces like a dog. I want one.

I'm not that far into Scarlet myself, have done about 6 objectives, but Koraidon is already easily my favourite legendary Pokémon. Part of the reason behind that is the traditional way of handling legendaries has never really appealed to me, so it's a low bar to pass. But the other part of the reason is I want to give Koraidon my pizza crusts. It's definitely one of those animals who's convinced its a lap dog, no matter how crushing it is.
 
N can't be a well-executed character if he is a great rival, or a rival at all.

He unknowingly became the very thing he tried to fight off against well before the climax of the game.

If you say he challenges you to reaffirm that he's right I'll need to inform that based on his own philosophy, he's sacrificing the well-being of his own Pokémon to do so, making it seem as if he cared more about his selfish ideologies than he did about his Pokémon.
I feel that this is assuming N is the one who volunteers his Pokemon to do battle regardless of their input, which is getting into a lot of speculative territory, not to mention. observing his motivation only through the lens that Pokemon battling and risking harm to them are the extent of his principles and thus full cause for hypocrisy. He's presented as able to speak and understand their thoughts on an equal level compared to most people kind of inferring as we would from observing animal behavior and non-verbal communication signs from a distance.

A running implication throughout the game is that N's teams are composed of local wild Pokemon who join him for a battle and then are released, until the final battle where the team seems to be made up of Pokemon N bonded with in his sheltered upbringing as well as the opposite Dragon to yours. N's backstory puts forth that he was mainly exposed to abused or injured Pokemon to give him a very specific and biased perspective on how they interact with humans. Besides the player, it feels like this is his first time interacting with Pokemon who don't fit into the "Humans mistreated us, make them go away" mold, and compared to the more spontaneous battles with the MC, the Champion plan meant from the outset he would have to battle some figures openly. To get a bit more speculative, a lot of Pokemon species, much like animals, are described as competing in shows of strength if not direct rough-housing or combating each other in the wild, which would mean the problem is less Pokemon Battling than Pokemon being made to battle by humans rather than of their own choice, something N has the ability to discern from any Pokemon who battles for him.

N's battles feel more akin to things like disciplinary action or (to jump a bit up the scale) military response, in which no one necessarily wants to resort to violence or force but circumstances like the other party make it the option that results in the least trouble/suffering overall. N doesn't approve of Pokemon battling, but he and Team Plasma have to know they will be met with resistance by people who will battle, and if they do not battle in turn their plans simply stop and the status quo they protest goes on uncontested.
 
N doesn't approve of Pokemon battling, but he and Team Plasma have to know they will be met with resistance by people who will battle, and if they do not battle in turn their plans simply stop and the status quo they protest goes on uncontested.
Yeah there's definitely something very uncomfortable about the "aha! you're being hypocrites therefore I win!" argument that the player character's allies regularly use in BW. No civil rights movement has ever succeeded by just modelling the correct behaviour and never interfering with the lives of the people upholding the status quo.

I also wanna dig into how N grew up exclusively around Pokemon that had been abused and hated humans as a result. This is framed as manipulative on Ghetsis' part, which it was for sure, but... those Pokemon were still abused, right? It's never said that their abuse was fabricated or inflicted by Team Plasma, so we're meant to understand that these Pokemon did suffer at the hands of their trainers or other humans. Sure, they're an unrepresentative sample of Pokemon as a whole, but similar stories are found throughout the Pokemon games. Even if it's not as bad as N was led to believe, it still seems like quite a serious and widespread problem, and yet there doesn't seem to be any kind of punishment or even identification of the abusers or any kind of system in place to prevent that harm from happening in the first place.

Obviously this is because these are kids' games with a setting that's framed as pretty utopian, but with a few problems for you to fix so you feel like you're doing good and helping people. It's heartwarming when you're able to rescue a suffering creature, but it's unsettling to explore the cruelty behind that suffering and acknowledge it as anything but an anomaly.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
Yeah there's definitely something very uncomfortable about the "aha! you're being hypocrites therefore I win!" argument that the player character's allies regularly use in BW. No civil rights movement has ever succeeded by just modelling the correct behaviour and never interfering with the lives of the people upholding the status quo.

I also wanna dig into how N grew up exclusively around Pokemon that had been abused and hated humans as a result. This is framed as manipulative on Ghetsis' part, which it was for sure, but... those Pokemon were still abused, right? It's never said that their abuse was fabricated or inflicted by Team Plasma, so we're meant to understand that these Pokemon did suffer at the hands of their trainers or other humans. Sure, they're an unrepresentative sample of Pokemon as a whole, but similar stories are found throughout the Pokemon games. Even if it's not as bad as N was led to believe, it still seems like quite a serious and widespread problem, and yet there doesn't seem to be any kind of punishment or even identification of the abusers or any kind of system in place to prevent that harm from happening in the first place.

Obviously this is because these are kids' games with a setting that's framed as pretty utopian, but with a few problems for you to fix so you feel like you're doing good and helping people. It's heartwarming when you're able to rescue a suffering creature, but it's unsettling to explore the cruelty behind that suffering and acknowledge it as anything but an anomaly.
I'm... not sure it is presented as a widespread problem though. At least that's not what I ever got from what the games implied. Whenever we do hear of people mistreating Pokemon, it's presented as something incredibly out of the norm and shocking because it's so unusual. Team Rocket's antics are admittedly very brutal, but a lot of that I think comes down to early installment weirdness - loads of NPCs in Gen I are depicted with whips, which was a design concept that was very quickly phased out, and no evil team in the handheld series has ever gone as far as they did.

Without leaning into real-world politics too much (ironic considering the other post I just made on a different thread) N's experience is convincing much like how radicalisation often happens IRL: people are presented with extreme cases which, while undoubtedly awful, are extreme because of their singularity. But they are persuaded into thinking that those instances are the standard and develop a warped worldview. N is a textbook example of this - Anthea and Concordia explain that Ghetsis only allowed N around Pokemon that had been abused; consequently, he is literally unable to conceive that any human could have a relationship with a Pokemon that isn't exploitative and unequal.

I actually always found it weird that N's Pokemon in B2W2 have maximum friendship when caught, likely to symbolise their attachment to him - uh, okay, fair enough, but I am not him, and you do not know me. I'm not even the protagonist from BW, who those Pokemon previously fought against. The idea that because they had high friendship with N they should have it with the player is like saying that I should be in love with a random stranger because I have a wife. Maybe their experience with N really did cause them to realise "humans are fine, actually" but it's still nonsensical for them to automatically bond to the first human that catches them when regular wild Pokemon don't do that.

We actually had a cat for several years who came to us at ~1 year old and it was very obvious that she had been shouted at and mistreated in her previous home. She was incredibly quiet and skittish and reacted poorly to noise and sudden movements, and never opened up fully try as we might. Even at her most relaxed moments - I used to rub her belly and brush her with tissues (she really liked the sensation of tissues, for whatever reason) and she would stretch out and look very luxuriated - she never seemed completely at ease. It was incredibly upsetting for me personally not to be able to get her full trust and love, but that's the effect abuse has on animals.

Part of this is, as you said, rampant gameplay and story segregation necessitated by the games' age rating. I wouldn't expect anything quite that dramatic, but it is curious though that the player isn't given the opportunity to catch the Pokemon he uses at the climax of BW - his Archeops, Carracosta, Klinklang, Vanilluxe, and Zoroark. Maybe these are the really damaged ones, who prefer to return to the wild rather than ever partner with a trainer again.

Idk, I may have forgotten details. God, it's been a while since I played the Unova games, I should revisit them...
 
Pretty sure this is unpopular: so here you go: I really love the Gen 9 starters and evos and honestly all of Gen 9's new Mons in general. Yeah Gen 9 has flaws, but I love it in spite of those flaws.
Since SV is being gunned right now, I also want to add this unpopular opinion,

Gen 9 is the best pokemon game bar none... If only it didn't have performance issue.
Good Pokemon, good gameplay, good characters, great story.
Any critique like the pokemon design, or open world gameplay are non-issue, because its subjective.

I only understand a bit about developing a game. But I understand it need MUCH more polish. As long as this game is stable, this is the best pokemon game.
 
Since SV is being gunned right now, I also want to add this unpopular opinion,

Gen 9 is the best pokemon game bar none... If only it didn't have performance issue.
Good Pokemon, good gameplay, good characters, great story.
Any critique like the pokemon design, or open world gameplay are non-issue, because its subjective.

I only understand a bit about developing a game. But I understand it need MUCH more polish. As long as this game is stable, this is the best pokemon game.
To be fair i think this is actually a pretty popular opinion.
 
Part of this is, as you said, rampant gameplay and story segregation necessitated by the games' age rating. I wouldn't expect anything quite that dramatic, but it is curious though that the player isn't given the opportunity to catch the Pokemon he uses at the climax of BW - his Archeops, Carracosta, Klinklang, Vanilluxe, and Zoroark. Maybe these are the really damaged ones, who prefer to return to the wild rather than ever partner with a trainer again.

Idk, I may have forgotten details. God, it's been a while since I played the Unova games, I should revisit them...
If B2W2 are indeed part of the topic, I think N's Zoroark appears as sort of your guide to the ruins of the Castle for the event where you battle him to inherit his Dragon as a partner. A Vanilluxe is on one of his seasonal battle teams but none of the others appear in one so I think that's just coincidence. My impression was that several of those Pokemon were the ones N was specifically raised with and kept (like Ghetsis would introduce N to some abused Pokemon briefly and others would be kept as a constant presence and influence on his development), so they have a bond and don't want to leave him, but also don't want to engage with other humans in scenarios like battling or such, especially since N doesn't come across as comfortable with people even after the 2 years of soul searching following BW's ending. He understands his perception was wrong but he still clearly feels more at home with Pokemon than trying to hang with them, given you only see him in either the Climax isolated at Giant Chasm, or alone in his castle compared to where most other recurring battle trainers hang out.
 
I'm somewhat dissapointed Defog isn't absorbed by Wind Rider. With Goldengo being how it is, I want to see a mon that blocks Defog without having collateral for taunt/roar/major status/etc.. Brambleghast is so close. It's not like it wouldn't fit thematically, Defog's description has mentioned "a strong wind" since gen 5.
It's unfortunate that flavour reasoning only seems to take priority when it makes the Pokemon worse haha. Like I totally understand why Wind Rider doesn't prevent Defog from clearing hazards, given that the immunity is based on the move passing through the Pokemon unimpeded rather than being absorbed or redirected by the Pokemon, but it would be so sick if it did!
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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Note this post is mainly in jest, and not sure whether this is the proper thread for it, but I just had to say this:

F*** Alfornada. :fukyu:
F*** it being early on (Paldea's west side) making you think it's early mid Gym Levels (Level-wise it's the 7TH).
F*** the convoluted path you needed to take to get their without the Double Jump/Climb power-up.
F*** the Wild Pokemon who all suddenly become mini-bosses and difficult to catch.
F*** the Trainers who made the previous Gym Leaders look like Youngers/Lasses.
F*** all the NPCs who they had jokingly said "boy was sure hard to get here, right?".
F*** the Gym Leader and her remarks of making us over (kinda weird that they still connect "magic" to the Psychic-type even though we have Fairy).

And yes, I defeated the Gym Leader, my Pokemon are now probably fully prepared for all future challenges. :boi:

"It's your fault. You saw the high-leveled Pokemon, that's what we call a "context clue" that you're not supposed to be there yet!"

Well, the thing is, my Starter was actually late 30s so, while I had a suspicion it might be for a bit later (especially since the obvious path needed the double jump/climb power-up), I didn't think it would be that later. Like, in my mind it was like how in the Gen I games you could do the middle Gym Leaders in different order than the "official" way. I didn't realize I was jumping form Lt. Surge to Blaine! :facepalm:

Oh, BTW, minor Scarlet & Violet spoilers, challenges don't level scale. They don't stop you from going anywhere but they certainly make sure you don't feel welcome in what they decided was late game locations (and aside from higher Level Pokemon and possibly path roadblocks, don't outright tell you). :pikuh:
 
Note this post is mainly in jest, and not sure whether this is the proper thread for it, but I just had to say this:

F*** Alfornada. :fukyu:
F*** it being early on (Paldea's west side) making you think it's early mid Gym Levels (Level-wise it's the 7TH).
F*** the convoluted path you needed to take to get their without the Double Jump/Climb power-up.
F*** the Wild Pokemon who all suddenly become mini-bosses and difficult to catch.
F*** the Trainers who made the previous Gym Leaders look like Youngers/Lasses.
F*** all the NPCs who they had jokingly said "boy was sure hard to get here, right?".
F*** the Gym Leader and her remarks of making us over (kinda weird that they still connect "magic" to the Psychic-type even though we have Fairy).

And yes, I defeated the Gym Leader, my Pokemon are now probably fully prepared for all future challenges. :boi:

"It's your fault. You saw the high-leveled Pokemon, that's what we call a "context clue" that you're not supposed to be there yet!"

Well, the thing is, my Starter was actually late 30s so, while I had a suspicion it might be for a bit later (especially since the obvious path needed the double jump/climb power-up), I didn't think it would be that later. Like, in my mind it was like how in the Gen I games you could do the middle Gym Leaders in different order than the "official" way. I didn't realize I was jumping form Lt. Surge to Blaine! :facepalm:

Oh, BTW, minor Scarlet & Violet spoilers, challenges don't level scale. They don't stop you from going anywhere but they certainly make sure you don't feel welcome in what they decided was late game locations (and aside from higher Level Pokemon and possibly path roadblocks, don't outright tell you). :pikuh:
Yeah Alfornada is a load of nonsense. Felt impossible to get to, and when you finally find the path BAM level forty BAY BEE

I said in the impressions thread there is a certain thrill to this getting caught off guard, but I can also admit it's a little wonky at times. I think Mela is more egregious because she's the closest Team Star Boss near Mezagoza yet the Dark type guy is on the other side of the map and is ACTUALLY the first one you should battle.

As good as SV is, it definitely reeks of last-minute development changes in terms of where they placed the bosses.
 
Yeah Alfornada is a load of nonsense. Felt impossible to get to, and when you finally find the path BAM level forty BAY BEE

I said in the impressions thread there is a certain thrill to this getting caught off guard, but I can also admit it's a little wonky at times. I think Mela is more egregious because she's the closest Team Star Boss near Mezagoza yet the Dark type guy is on the other side of the map and is ACTUALLY the first one you should battle.

As good as SV is, it definitely reeks of last-minute development changes in terms of where they placed the bosses.
I thought I'd try using the "Ask the Pokecenter where you should go next" option, since clearly that's intended. Nope, I think that just pushes you towards the closest objective, not the appropriately-leveled one.

It'd be better if there were some way in the overworld to judge levels. Instead you just have to save before entering fights and reset if they're way above you.
 
I thought I'd try using the "Ask the Pokecenter where you should go next" option, since clearly that's intended. Nope, I think that just pushes you towards the closest objective, not the appropriately-leveled one.

It'd be better if there were some way in the overworld to judge levels. Instead you just have to save before entering fights and reset if they're way above you.
Yeah that’s another thing I don’t quite like. At one point the Pokémon Center direction feature told me to go to the False Dragon Trial which rocks mid-50s when I was mid-30s. It initially sounded like a great way to mitigate this partial guide dang it. It’s not, so you have to rely on online guides with the intended order.

It frustrates me because aside from this the game is so enjoyable, but giving you the illusion of an open world yet still kinda more or less forcing you down a set path if you don’t go off and grind is a little bothersome.
 
It doesn't have to be either-or. The original BW were by far the most linear games the series had ever had at that point.
Yeah I’m fine with BW1 style games but if they are gonna go full open world then scale the levels or tell me where to go. Otherwise you get Paper Mario: Sticker Star levels of fake open world.

I still think SV was more or less the best way they could have done it without making the scaling an over-complex coding nightmare.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
I said in the impressions thread there is a certain thrill to this getting caught off guard, but I can also admit it's a little wonky at times. I think Mela is more egregious because she's the closest Team Star Boss near Mezagoza yet the Dark type guy is on the other side of the map and is ACTUALLY the first one you should battle.
Don't get me wrong, it's actually been quite fun as I'm actually feeling challenged for a change. Well, not in the sense I suddenly went fighting Level 20-25 to Level 40 opponents, but often I would wander someplace where the Pokemon would suddenly be near the same Level as my Pokemon again and it feels like the game is actually keeping pace (granted these are off to the side places and normally the main path would still be under level but NORMALLY not by much... though obviously this isn't the case for me anymore). Like in Legends: Arceus, I'm having to USE my Items and spending money on getting more. :bloblul:

Wait, the Dark Star Leader (don't want to look up his name as I'm worried about seeing spoilers) was supposed to be the FIRST? :psynervous: And he's right before two of the stronger Titans? GF, how did you decide the Level Curve here? Did you throw darts at a spinning board with the Levels written on them? That's not even going to how where each objective is placed also feels poorly paced. West side has three of the Titans close to one another, and some Gym Leaders have no other objective between them so you gotto go out of your way to do a Titan/Team Star. And while Gym Leaders are kind of stuck having to be in cities/towns, the same isn't an issue for Team Star & the Titans so it just feels like poor planning.

I thought I'd try using the "Ask the Pokecenter where you should go next" option, since clearly that's intended. Nope, I think that just pushes you towards the closest objective, not the appropriately-leveled one.
... Which is something you can just see on the map. :blobglare: Either this was a result of two different groups coming up with an idea that caused one to be redundant; or they thought of the Pokemon Center Guide thing early on, realized it was easy to get lost where all the objectives were, so later just placed all the objectives on the map without getting rid of or re-purposing the Center Guide.

Conclusion: It should have remained strictly linear.
Conclusion: GF should stop being lazy and given each boss multiple teams/versions depending on how many of their respective Badges you had. That would be 8 teams for Gym Leaders, 5 teams for Star Leaders, and 5 versions of the Titans.

AND YES, this is an example of laziness of their part. I'll give them credit for making a boss for each of the Types (even if it means the bosses on each side is lopsided), and that there's 3 "kinds" of bosses (though all break down to just a normal Pokemon Battle with two having a SLIGHT gimmick) which at least gives a different experience. Also, I can overlook the odd placements of all the objectives, would like for each to be more evened out but I'll just take this at this being their first time doing this and they designed the region's overall appearance before deciding where to place the Titans & Team Star and ended up limiting themselves. HOWEVER, them not fully going with the "do anything in any order" idea, which THEY PROMOTED, by not level scaling via coming up with different teams/versions (which even I could do though don't want to at the moment to avoid spoilers) is just them throwing up their hands in the air going "that's good enough"!

And, no, I don't think this would be a programming mess. Nemona, Arven, and the Operation Starfall crew seem to be able to keep track of my progress which I assume means they're using "if than" flags.
 
Yeah I’m fine with BW1 style games but if they are gonna go full open world then scale the levels or tell me where to go. Otherwise you get Paper Mario: Sticker Star levels of fake open world.

I still think SV was more or less the best way they could have done it without making the scaling an over-complex coding nightmare.
I don't think the level scaling needed to be that bad. The wilds and generic trainers can stay the same, they're avoidable and make the world feel lived-in.

But there's 3 paths, 18 badges, and a range of ~40 levels. The Titans are easy, level=15+(2.4*badge count). Gym battles and Star Base Grunts/Star Flood can be leveled similarly, no need to mess with the rosters, just the levels. If that means the player faces off against a fully-evolved mon because they rushed to the back of the map first, so be it. It's at least on-par levelwise, which is easier*, and the player deserves it for going out of their way.

And then you just give the Gym Leaders/Star Bosses like 4 teams, select one based on badge count, and then apply the level ratio. Like, I'm not saying it'd be 0 work, but it's not some massive undertaking either.

A player should be able to just pick a part of the map, clear it out, and then go to a nearby part of the map and repeat, and feel like the game wants to be played that way. Instead, they either expect you to bounce back and forth across the map, or else just grind regularly as you clear things out, then come back and sweep through a bunch of low-level trash you missed. Either is not ideal game design.

*I just tested this, a lvl 10 Venusaur has worse stats than a lvl 15 Bulbasaur.
 

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