Undiscovered Movesets / EV spreads

SJCrew

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I use that Palkia spread all the time, and it's pretty much the best thing ever for stopping Kyogre. The set is a different story, as I've never stopped to consider Bulk Up. It seems promising on paper, though it could be a waste of time since almost all of the dragons in Ubers are supremely strong and will break right through a mere base 120 sp def. Not something I'd risk.

Still, I want to try it, and if I happen to remember, I can offer some of my own personal experience on this later.
 

shrang

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Ok, here's for an interesting set.

Palkia@Leftovers
Adamant (+Attk, -SpAttk)
252 HP 4 Spe 252 SpDef
Bulk Up
Outrage
Rest
Sleep Talk

While this set seems extremely odd, it accomplishes many useful things (I bet there's a better EV spread). It takes 4 hits from a full health Specs Kyogre to ko, so even if it does die by that, Water Spout is out of PP. But of course, you will have Rested long before that. With Adamant and Outrage, most Kyogre are 2hko'd, and those bulky ones that aren't are usually Cro-Ogre, which you can laugh at as you Bulk Up and hit them with a boosted Outrage for the KO. In a pinch, this set also takes a Dragon Pulse from a Lati@s and survives, although barely. Then, Outrage makes short work of them. Basically, this set is probably the best Kyogre counter I can think of (Lati@s and Palkia usually fear Thunder Wave, but not this one). I think this would work well on a Stall team, but I don't play stall, so I'm hoping someone can try this set out. It also works great as a sleep/status absorber, which helps take down Darkrai.
A Cro set is generally better on Dialga, because of his better typing, letting him switch into more things (Particularly Scizor). The thing that probably sets this set apart from BU Dialga is the fact you can switch into Kyogre. A normal BU Palkia (BU, Aqua Tail, Outrage, Filler) is generally good enough to defeat bulky Ogres without Thunder Wave. BU Dialga is better for a defensive role due to its better typing, while BU Palkia is different as it uses its superior coverage and speed to sweep.
 

SJCrew

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I've discovered that Dragons in Ubers don't really care about his base 120 sp. def and 90 HP. He's still forced out pretty quickly with the threat of Draco Meteor. Not running speed also ruins his chance for a sweep. He has way more potential to kill with a Choice item to the point where using Bulk Up just seems like a waste of time.
 

shrang

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Bulk Up Palkia is good, though, but the best way to abuse it through his great coverage and speed. A +1 Palkia won't get OHKO'd by Brave Bird from Ho-Oh, which is pretty cool, and Haban Berry can allow Palkia to survive a Spacial Rend and continue sweeping.
 
I think you guys misunderstood. This set is not supposed to sweep. It belongs on a stall team, to check Kyogre and not be total Wobby bait (Scarf-kia) or Scizor bait (Latias). It takes Water Spout like a champ, never being 3hko'd, and can be a sleep absorber to help take out Darkrai, although a set like

Palkia@ Haban Berry
Jolly (+Spe, -SpAttk)
4 Hp 252 Attk 252 Spe
Bulk Up
Dragon Claw/Outrage
Aqua Tail
Earthquake

might have its merits for sweeping. I just made this one up off the top of my head, but I think it could work.
 

SJCrew

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I don't think I've ever seen a stall team in Ubers. I've seen a couple of stalling Pokemon, on a balanced team, but all in all, Ubers is an offensive metagame. I think the reason it's undiscovered is that it's impractical for the most part.
 

shrang

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There are plenty of stall teams in Ubers, ranging from the classic stall (Groudon/Giratina/Latias/Blissey/Forretress/Filler) to modern stall (Jibaku's stall team), to QuickStall (With those annoying stall Mewtwos)
 

Badal

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I was wondering, what would be a good heavy offensive sweeper in Ubers?
I was thinking Rayquaza or Garchomp.. and Deoxys-A (I don't prefer)
High base attack
 
Cripple Super Support
Deoxys-Defensive@Choice Scarf
Bold (-Att +Def)
252 Hp 252 Spd 4 Def
Trick
Stealth Rock
Spikes
Twave

After some testing, I don't know why this isn't more popular. Im a bit of a noob with calculations, but 252 spd Scarf can pretty much screw up all non choiced leads immediately. Twave can cripple in switch ins if Im not immediately scared of them after the switch on my SR. Help on the EVs would be appreciated. Obviously Rapid Spin can make this set cry, so I use Max Def Max HP Giratina to calm mind up if the try to use Forretress, which, even though it can't regularly hit, it absorbs rapid spin, explosion, and doesn't take enough damage to stop it from +6ing plus +6ing unless they switch.
 
Even with a Scarf, speed Deoxys outspeeds you, and Taunt means you're useless. That's more or less reason enough to not use this lead. It fares pretty well against other leads, but Deoxys-e is still firmly the number 1 lead.
 
Lately I've been thinking of how common Thunder is in Ubers, when I realized that there really are no STAB users of the move. I came up with this Raikou set that I think has potential.

Raikou@Life Orb
Hasty; 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe

HP Ice
Crunch
Thunder
Calm Mind

With its decent base 90 attack and access to a powerful physical dark attack, Raikou is able to inflict damage on the Psychic-filled Uber metagame, which features pokemon that tend to be weaker when it comes to physical defense. This Raikou is intended to lure out Latios and Latias while also serving as a naturally speedy revenge killer to slower threats such as SDGarchomp, non-scarf Kyogre, and possibly Ho-Oh. The EVs generate enough Attack to 2HKO Latias with Stealth Rock, 352 Speed to outpace Max Speed Timid Latios by 2 points, and maximum SpA for the most possible power.

Crunch is one of the most important moves on the set. With a Hasty nature, some Attack investment, and Life Orb, it manages 44.98% - 53.50% to a 112 / 0 Neutral Latias, a guaranteed 2HKO with Stealth Rock. The same is true of the defensively weaker Latios. Because Raikou outspeeds them both, it can Calm Mind on the switch and proceed to 2HKO with Crunch, while 252 Timid Latios can only manage a maximum 84% with Draco Meteor to +1 Raikou, which never OHKOs with Stealth Rock. Ideally, though, Latios would be caught on the switch with Crunch for a quick 2HKO.

Calm Mind is self-explanatory - it allows Raikou added offensive firepower while softening blows from the many special attacks in Ubers, such as Latios' Draco Meteor. In fact, Scarf Palkia's Spacial Rend can only manage 37.96% - 44.86%, making revenge killing somewhat difficult if Raikou is in good health. At +1, Raikou's Thunder OHKOs Lugia, Kyogre, Palkia, Physically Defensive Mewtwo, 248 / 248 Careful Ho-Oh, and others.

Thunder provides Raikou with a powerful STAB attack, fully accurate in the Rain. Despite Raikou's already high base speed, it can also spread around paralysis should a faster scarfer attempt to immediately switch in.

Hidden Power Ice is necessary to round out the coverage of the set, pairing well with Thunder and also Crunch due to the presence of dragons in the Uber metagame. It has an 50.03% chance to 2HKO 252 / 60 Adamant support Groudon, after accounting for Stealth Rock and Leftovers, often the most specially defensive of Groudon encountered. At +1, 86 / 96 neutral Giratina-O is 2HKOd, though ResTalk versions are difficult for Raikou to deal with. Moreover, it allows Raikou to OHKO non-Yache Garchomp, as well as Rayquaza, both of which it outspeeds. These are important as Garchomp could otherwise KO with Earthquake, while Rayquaza's Air Lock makes Thunder inaccurate despite the rain.

Despite the positives of the set, Raikou has trouble with Giratina(-o), Blissey, Dialga, and faster scarfers. It works well with Kyogre because it can lure in and kill the Lati twins, while Kyogre can plow through all else if equipped with Specs. ScarfDialga is also a good choice, as it resists SDRay's Extremespeed attempts at revenging Raikou, and can also overcome Giratina and other Dialga with Aura Sphere, as well defeating faster threats such as Darkrai or Shaymin-S.

As far as support is concerned, it is important to use a lead that can set up Stealth Rock as well, to ascertain particular KOs such as Latias. Furthermore, it is generally a good idea to have Kyogre somewhere on your team to retain control of the weather - rain is necessary to keep Thunder accurate after all.
 
I want to bring up an unusual moveset just so it can be shot down. This is purely an idea that perhaps somebody MIGHT want to try to build a team around, but I'm certainly not the one to do it.

Gravity isn't often used, but considering Giratina's great defensive stats and the fact that it can both spinblock AND use gravity and roar, how much potential would a set like that have on an ubers stall team?

Giratina @ Leftovers
248 HP/248 Def/12 SpDef
Impish nature

Gravity
Roar
Rest
Dragon Claw

Considering the large amounts of pokemon who would be immune to spikes+toxic spikes that this opens up, Giratina could fill a role of spinblocking, spreading status, and phazing to weaken walls to the point where something could sweep past it. Obviously a set like this would lose to taunters, but the goal is just to roar out things and spread as much poison status and spikes damage as possible with gravity helping that out, even something like an Iron Plate Arceus with a similar moveset like gravity/roar/???. Is a team focused on an idea like that viable?
 
I want to bring up an unusual moveset just so it can be shot down. This is purely an idea that perhaps somebody MIGHT want to try to build a team around, but I'm certainly not the one to do it.

Gravity isn't often used, but considering Giratina's great defensive stats and the fact that it can both spinblock AND use gravity and roar, how much potential would a set like that have on an ubers stall team?

Giratina @ Leftovers
248 HP/248 Def/12 SpDef
Impish nature

Gravity
Roar
Rest
Dragon Claw

Considering the large amounts of pokemon who would be immune to spikes+toxic spikes that this opens up, Giratina could fill a role of spinblocking, spreading status, and phazing to weaken walls to the point where something could sweep past it. Obviously a set like this would lose to taunters, but the goal is just to roar out things and spread as much poison status and spikes damage as possible with gravity helping that out, even something like an Iron Plate Arceus with a similar moveset like gravity/roar/???. Is a team focused on an idea like that viable?
That looks very interesting, I may very well base a spike stacking team around that today. Its a shame how many hits it will take, especially when sleeping. You could slash sleep talk in there. It looks like Dialga would make a good partner, but he also has to use rest, with that you'd need a good user of aromatherapy (Blissey fits into stall nicely, and also learns gravity) but you lose momentum if you switch too much. Jirachi can wish pass and use gravity, but can't phaze.
 

Chou Toshio

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I think you guys misunderstood. This set is not supposed to sweep. It belongs on a stall team, to check Kyogre and not be total Wobby bait (Scarf-kia) or Scizor bait (Latias). It takes Water Spout like a champ, never being 3hko'd, and can be a sleep absorber to help take out Darkrai, although a set like

Palkia@ Haban Berry
Jolly (+Spe, -SpAttk)
4 Hp 252 Attk 252 Spe
Bulk Up
Dragon Claw/Outrage
Aqua Tail
Earthquake

might have its merits for sweeping. I just made this one up off the top of my head, but I think it could work.
You're missing the point they're getting at. The point is that while Palkia may have good bulk, only 1 weakness, and there's great synergy between Bulk Up, Sleep-rest and Outrage, none of that really matters in the face of STAB Outrage/Draco Meteors. Regardless of your EVs or stat-ups, you will be forced out by faster dragons packing those attacks.

Essentially Slow + Dragon Weak does not work. At least not without defenses even better than Lugia's.
 
Lately I've been thinking of how common Thunder is in Ubers, when I realized that there really are no STAB users of the move. I came up with this Raikou set that I think has potential.

Raikou@Life Orb
Hasty; 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe

HP Ice
Crunch
Thunder
Calm Mind
This might be worth a shot. Maybe after the twins are weakened.

Alright, I've tried this and it has worked ok so far:

Aerodactyl@Leftovers
Jolly/Pressure
208 HP/84 Sp.Def/216 Spe
Substitute
Roost
Taunt
Whirlwind

Stalldactyl! So this doesn't really work that well in OU but in Ubers Pressure helps a lot against special attackers. The only "problem" is the TTar dependence. It's meant to be used in stallish teams where entry hazard damage is going to start stacking pretty fast. What does this have over Lugia (who can run something similar)? Speed EVs allow him to outspeed +Spe nature 125s which includes Darkrai. Taunt is also a huge selling point here as it nullifies Wobba and most walls (Blissey, Groudon, Lugia, Gira-A).

Here are some calculations in sandstorm:

Hasty Scarf Palkia's Spacial Rend: 39.4% - 46.7%
Hasty Scarf Palkia's Draco Meteor: 55.2% - 64.9%
Hasty Scarf Palkia's Surf: 74.8% - 88.4%

Timid Latios' Draco Meteor: 74.2% - 87.5%
Timid Latios' Dragon Pulse: 47.9% - 56.4%

MixDialga's Draco Meteor: 60.3% - 71.4%

As you can see none of these OHKO when at full health. Since you are faster, you can Sub first and then Roost off the damage. I pair this with Skarmory to help against Scizor and to start setting up Spikes. Aero can take Fire attacks meant for Skarmory. Of course, Kyogre is just a pain but with right support this is a fun moveset to play. Try it out and see how it goes.
 
Ummmm... I'd like the lead deoxys-a set to be changed a little as the set currently posted on smogon needs tweaking. I think this is better:

Deoxys-a@Focus sash
252Spe/252SAtk/4Atk
Hasty/Rash
-SR
-Shadow ball
-Extremespeed
-Grass knot/Spikes/Fire punch

This set stops deoxys-s from setting up 2 layers. Against Kyogre and Groudon, it can GK them. Rash can OHKO kyogre, I think. Fire punch can kill forry while SR and spikes are merely useful.
 

Hugendugen

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Aerodactyl@Leftovers
Jolly/Pressure
208 HP/84 Sp.Def/216 Spe
Substitute
Roost
Taunt
Whirlwind

Stalldactyl! So this doesn't really work that well in OU but in Ubers Pressure helps a lot against special attackers. The only "problem" is the TTar dependence. It's meant to be used in stallish teams where entry hazard damage is going to start stacking pretty fast. What does this have over Lugia (who can run something similar)? Speed EVs allow him to outspeed +Spe nature 125s which includes Darkrai.
If you are finding Darkrai an annoyance on the team, you could always give Aerodactyl a Lum Berry, so that it can enter without sleeping on the switch and then either Sub or Taunt on the next turn. I know removing Leftovers damages its stalling capabilities a bit, but this is just a suggestion that might help you work around (and later predict around) Darkrai, if it's ruining your stall team.
 
Doesn't Aerodactyl outspeed Darkrai anyway?? You can just Sub up so it can't Sleep you.
I think the lum berry is for switching in, and despite being situational it doesn't sound too bad since many stall teams are Darkrai weak. Sure you can throw up a sub faster if he comes in on you, but if you come in on him you're probably going to be taking a dark void.
 
has not been tested.
name:ubers choice scarf
gyarados
move1:waterfall
move2:outrage
move3:stone edge/ice fang/bite
move4:earthquake/stone edge
nature:adamant
item:choice scarf
evs:40hp/252 atk/216 spe

(strategy)
this set is a revenge killer gyarados that can be use on a rain team or just a back up sweeper.choice scarf helps outspeed most ubers, and pokemon like darkrai and garchomp that isnt wielding on of thier own.waterfall is a powerfull stab move that gets a boost in kyorges rain.outrage is good for those anoying dragon pokemon;rayquaza,giratina,palkia,latios,latias,and sometimes dialgia.be warn not to be lock in a outrage to early or the nasty steel types like forrtress,dialgia,jiarachi and scizor will come in.stone edge is mainly for ho-oh and lugia.ice fang also covers flying,ground and dragon types.bite is use for psychic types like wobbafet,mewtwo, deoxys etc. lastly earthquake is to take out any steel types that come in your way
 
(Palkia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Focus Punch
- Dragon Claw
- Substitute
this play different from normal palkia sets, the first thing you should do VS a scarf kyogre or any pokemon you can force switchs is use sub, chances are they will be switching latias, latios or blissey, dragon claw is a clean ohko on both latis while focus punch deal with blissey, pokemons like sub toxic heatran and scarf kyogre are perfect setup baits, dragon and fighting get awesome coverage together.

this set work has a bait to its counters, but i swept quite a lot with this on my ubers day and he often kill at least 2 pokemons if he can get a sub in, this does look like the sub palkia set from the analysis, but its not the same thing because its pure physical, one can use lustrous orb if want to fake a CB set, but you really need leftovers because of the subs, one can try running less atack and more defenses, but palkia wont survive draco meteors any day and bulk up take care of physical atacks.
 

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