Multi Gen Ubers Battle of the Week: Mk. III (Week 18: Voting OPEN)

Krauersaut

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Alright, I can't be to blame if this goes terribly. (In the likely event that it DOES go terribly, revote with ORAS enforced. smh guys.)

This week's BotW is Melee Mewtwo vs Transcendent God Champion. (help)

(can someone tell Melee Mewtwo on IRC that he's been nominated to play? he has me on ignore lol)
 
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Krauersaut

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is a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
[09:12:08] Drachekrieger【天龍神】:Yeah, so it will be Wednesday,
[09:12:20] Drachekrieger【天龍神】:sometime between 2pm and midnight, GMT+10.

That's super late in the night -> early in the morning for all you silly Americans.
 
In a best of three, I was defeated by Melee Mewtwo 1-0 in the first match, won 4-0 in the second match, and lost 3-0 in the third match. Though you did make me wait a while for these matches, I do thank you for them, and enjoyed the experience of feeling my blood rushing through my body as I fought through those intense battles, especially in a metagame which can no longer be played so frequently since the end of the Pokémon NetBattle days.
 

Krauersaut

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is a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
*nosebleed*

Alright, this is the FINAL WEEK of BATTLE OF THE WEEK before UPL starts up - when the UPL hype settles down, probably some time during week 1 or 2, I'll reopen. This BotW absolutely, 110% MUST, MUST, MUST be ORAS Ubers. A bunch of newer users come to this thread to get into the metagame, and although PTR vs MM2 is one of the best things that's happened to this thread, they aren't benefiting from that. So pls >_<

VOTING IS NOW OPEN!

(shadowquinn vs steve angello)
 

Fireburn

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I will be enforcing this BOTW being ORAS btw.

If you don't respect Krauersaut you can at least fear an infraction :V

also voting for march fires vs level 56
 

absdaddy

Banned deucer.
I will be enforcing this BOTW being ORAS btw.

If you don't respect Krauersaut you can at least fear an infraction :V

also voting for march fires vs level 56
If the best battles happen to be old gens, you should be happy that older gens get some recognition and possibly get new people into them instead of infracting people.

tape arsenal
 

Fireburn

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If the best battles happen to be old gens, you should be happy that older gens get some recognition and possibly get new people into them instead of infracting people.

tape arsenal
I was half joking and ofc I do like the exposure the old gens get, but to blatantly defy the thread host when they specifically request one week to be ORAS can't keep happening, especially when older gens have been involved in most of the battles in the current iteration of this thread.
 

Fireburn

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Sorry for interrupting voting but I wanted to talk about the ADV games.

Game 1: Latios/Kyogre/Kabutops/Registeel/Swampert/Rayquaza (MM2) vs Groudon/Blissey/Forretress/Latias/Lugia/Gengar (PTR)

The two builds contrast each other well - PTR has a mostly standard sun stall team save Gengar (which still isn't unheard on that kind of team for spinblocking + checking CurseLax), while MM2 is packing a rather quirky rain offense build centered around killing Groudon quickly and sweeping with CB Kabutops, with lures such as Mixed Rayquaza and Curse + Explosion Registeel to bait it out. Melee Mewtwo sends out Registeel early to try and bait out the Groudon, which succeeds...almost. Turns out you need a layer of Spikes to OHKO Groudon with Registeel's +1 Explosion, which ends up frustrating MM2's later attempts to try and sweep with Kyogre due to sun cutting his attack power. Still, it does prevent the Groudon from coming in on Kabutops, which later gets a free switch on a sacced MixQuaza (it wasn't doing much with Lugia in the picture) to try and pull an early sweep with CB Rock Slide...which backfires somewhat as PTR reveals max Defense Latias and inflicts a ton of damage with Dragon Claw, allowing it to be later finished off by Forretress. This forces MM2 to rely on Kyogre as his wincon, which eventually succeeds in a rather amusing way - stalling Blissey out of Toxic PP so Latios can later win the game.

PTR did play well by taking whatever opportunities he could to get Groudon back in the fray to regenerate its health with Leftovers to frustrate Kyogre's attempts at beating Blissey, but ultimately I think that the early offense with Registeel and Kabutops sealed PTR's fate by forcing him to sac Latias early, which was both needed to check MM2's particular Kyogre set and could have potentially been a wincon with a few CMs with Registeel gone. There was perhaps still a chance PTR could have won at the end if he got a Toxic onto Latios with Groudon, and since it was revealed to be SDef it could have taken down MM2's Kyogre as long as weather was in its favor. Throwing Forretress/Gengar against Registeel's Explosion instead probably would have given PTR an easy win as well since MixRay wasn't beating Lugia without a crit, though from the Toxic play I'm guessing he didn't expect an Explosion that early, which was a risky but ultimately worthwhile move on MM2's end.

The battle also did a good job showcasing how weak Swampert is in general against stall - Lugia just laughed in its face and SDef Groudon barely felt that Hydro Pump. Some sort of fat Spiker might have been good there to allow Registeel to secure the Explosion OHKO, or another Curse + Boom user like Snorlax could have provided a secondary BoltBeam tank while adding pressure onto physical walls for Kabutops or Rayquaza to have a better chance at winning. Aside from the useless Pert I liked MM2's team, and I felt PTR's was fine as well, just that key Explosion really set him back early-game with the loss of Latias. A solid match overall.
Game 2: Latios/Kyogre/Registeel/Swampert/Zapdos/Gengar (MM2) vs Mewtwo/Groudon/Ho-Oh/Kyogre/Lugia/Rayquaza (PTR)

Both odd teams, if not well known by this point. MM2 continues to insist Swampert is good while also throwing Zapdos into the mix, while PTR apparently thought that Lati@s and Steel-types were for conformist sheep and brought instead a team of highly offensive cover legends, relying instead on TWave lures and SDef Ho-Oh to take on the Eon twins. The match immediately starts with a bang as PTR makes good use of his lead advantage (and the fact that Latios is too valuable a mon to let die on T1) to nail Kyogre on T1 with a powerful Thunder. Registeel quickly proves its Groudon-harassing capabilities once again by Toxicing it on the switch, though MM2's actual Groudon check in Zapdos doesn't work out as it gets TWaved and badly injured by Ho-Oh, admittedly not a bad choice to take on the Zapdos in this situation as it was relatively safe from electrical assaults behind sun and its invested Special Defense. MM2 attempts to fight back against the Ho-Oh by bringing Kyogre in to restart the rain and then sending out his trusty Swampert on a hopeful Thunder, but a slick double to Kyogre on PTR's end thwarts the attempt and forces MM2 to sacrifice both Zapdos and Latios to stop it after PTR reveals that he's a fully offensive set and cripples MM2's now sleeping Kyogre. The battle pretty much just goes downhill for MM2 from there as PTR abuses his offensive momentum to pick apart MM2 with Mewtwo and CB Lugia blowing through the remains of his defensive core.

Not much to say here other than PTR just played better. Some great doubles and predictions on his end took apart MM2's defensive core and left him without too many ways to fight back meaningfully - CB Pert was held back by Groudon and abused by Kyogre, MM2's own Kyogre was put out of commission early, and Gengar couldn't break PTR's particular Ho-Oh set. Mewtwo definitely proved its worth as a solid lead, getting early damage onto Kyogre and forcing switches into things that PTR could take advantage of with his teammates, and plenty of smart predictions on his end took down MM2's defensive core. The match really showed how dangerous Mewtwo can be - I feel its a bit undervalued in ADV because of its lesser power and defensive utility compared to Lati@s, but its Speed and ability to explode make it arguably better at punching holes early-game, and it can usually beat all of the common Lati/Don/Kyogre leads which makes it one of the better choices to start for a highly offensive team like PTR's. MM2's more unconventional Pokemon choices didn't work out too well either. Notable here was Zapdos's shortcomings as a Groudon answer - even if it can switch in sometimes, the risk of getting statused is high and it struggles to do meaningful damage back when the sun from the thing its intended to check gives its main attack only a 50% chance to hit. CB Swampert was also rather underwhelming - it wouldn't have really gotten past Groudon without a crit and as a BoltBeam check it's risky to use since Ice Beams still chunk it for respectable damage.

Ironically, MM2 fell victim to what doomed PTR in the first game - Lati@s, both a key wincon and a necessary defense against the foe's Kyogre, got overwhelmed quickly which left MM2 ultimately doomed against the rest of PTR's offense.
Game 3: Latios/Kyogre/Steelix/Ho-Oh/Snorlax/Omastar (MM2) - Groudon/Ho-Oh/Kyogre/Lugia/Mewtwo/Rayquaza (PTR)

PTR uses the same six Pokemon as last time, but makes the curious decision to lead with Groudon instead of Mewtwo. Maybe he thought MM2 would change it up, or perhaps he would trick him into thinking he was using the sun stall team again? Either way, MM2's laziness works to his advantage as the familiar Latios lead now has the advantage, backed by a third variant of rain offense because Groudon is just some punk no one cares about. The advantage isn't as big as originally thought as Groudon reveals itself to be PTR's Specially Defensive Specialty (TM), shrugging off Latios's Ice Beam and cripping it with TWave. This arguably isn't a bad exchange since a paralyzed Latios is not much threat to PTR's team, but given that MM2 is once again trying the Swift Swim strategy with the unrevealed Omastar it could potentially bite him later. MM2 predicts the switch to a Lati@s check nicely and Kyogre faces down Ho-Oh, getting an important TWave off onto the offensive Kyogre that threatened him so much last game. PTR reveals that his Kyogre is actually 3 atks + Thunder Wave as he hopes to catch MM2's secondary Ogre check, but it fizzles out on Latios, though this ends up not being much consequence as PTR maneuvers Ho-Oh back in without taking damage and gets a Toxic onto MM2's Kyogre. The SDef Ho-Oh proves surprisingly resilient against Latios even in the rain, as the powerful Thunder barely manages half and Latios flees in favor of Kyogre, which is nicely disposed of by PTR after he tricks MM2 into thinking he didn't have Thunder on this one, hiding it until the Toxic damage brings MM2's own Kyogre into kill range, ruining its attempt at a CM sweep. MM2's revenge kill attempt gets more crucial damage onto Groudon with CB Steelix before finding himself in a Ho-Oh ditto.

The two battlers then pause for pee breaks before continuing. This is important as it gives PS! time to flush "bad RNG" from its memory, making sure the battle between these two legends is untainted by hax. Remember, it's not johning if it's tactical!

Unfortunately, the bad RNG wasn't quite fully eliminated as PTR misses Toxic against MM2's CB Ho-Oh and gets chunked by HP Flying. This ends up being rather annoying since it gives MM2 more opportunities to abuse Ho-Oh in the game, though to be fair PTR is lacking for Ho-Oh switch-ins at this point with Groudon/Ho-Oh weakened and Kyogre paralyzed. He is forced to resort to CB Lugia, which still takes a hefty amount of damage and is solidly walled by Steelix. PTR's Ho-Oh does eventually get the Toxic, but his lack of CB Ho-Oh switch-ins is proving deadly - CB Lugia takes another HP Flying to be put into critical health, only to be met again by Steelix which forces PTR to sac both Groudon and Kyogre. Although at this point PTR's Ho-Oh can now Recover stall MM2's poisoned CB Ho-Oh, PTR doesn't have anything left to really take strong physical hits, which is further exploited when MM2 brings in Snorlax and starts Cursing up. PTR's attempt to burn it fails and he decides that going for Toxicstall is better, but his Ho-Oh gets paralyzed by Body Slam and eventually falls victim to a FP. MM2 stays in on the CB Lugia to Rest up, either expecting EQ or a non-fatal Aeroblast, but Aeroblast crits and Snorlax drops anyway. Doesn't matter much though since, it's pretty much MM2's game at this point - any Aeroblast is a free pass for Steelix to take a shot at PTR's team. Mewtwo comes out to threaten the Steelix and MM2 sacs Latios to reveal his trump card in Omastar, which can easily OHKO Mewtwo with Hydro Pump. He then proceeds to click Ice Beam. Maybe he was predicting Quaza or Lati, but MM2 admits he thought it killed because he was too lazy to calc it. Instead of swallowing a hard-earned lesson in the pitfalls of laziness, MM2 gets bailed out by a freeze and PTR simply lets Mewtwo die to reveal his last Pokemon - Rayquaza. This could have been very bad for MM2 if it was a mixed set, but it turns out to be CB and it cannot KO both Steelix and Ho-Oh with one move, thus giving MM2 an easy victory with Ho-Oh.

Even though PTR's team has solid offensive capabilities, I think MM2 was able to take good advantage of the defensive shortcomings this time for a smoother victory. The big hole puncher of G2 for PTR - his Kyogre - was also his best switch into opposing Kyogre due to the lack of Lati@s, which led to it becoming paralyzed and thus unable to take advantage of MM2's paralyzed Latios. Without that paralysis it could have been just as devastating as it was in the previous game, since MM2's team pretty much relied only on Latios to beat Thunder Kyogre sets. MM2's physically offensive core of Steelix/Ho-Oh/Snorlax also proved too much for PTR to handle - he lacked resistances to Normal and Flying, his Groudon was weakened early, and his CB Flying attackers only gave Steelix nearly free switch-ins to come in and attack.

Heck, MM2 could have just set up more Curses on Ho-Oh and possibly cruised to a win from there barring an Aeroblast crit.

I think the key takeaway of this match is that physical offense cores can be quite effective in ADV Ubers. Despite some of the biggest and most common threats being specially oriented ones like Kyogre, Lati@s, and Mewtwo, being able to switch in on things like Double-Edge, Shadow Ball, and Aeroblast/HP Flying is quite important even on offense as many of the powerful special attackers have Defense as a low point. Groudon is often the most physically bulky thing on most teams, and it will get worn down over time without recovery or some backup by Lugia or a Steel-type. Coincidentally, this is also why Steelix was able to cause so much damage - it eats these moves for breakfast and can retaliate for decently powerful hits, making it surprisingly useful on teams that need a Ground-type that isn't Groudon.

That being said, I think the Toxic miss on CB Ho-Oh was rather unfortunate for PTR. If my math is right, it would have had about 30-36%ish extra poison damage which meant it would have died on the penultimate turn against Rayquaza and MM2 would have lost to CB Earthquake spam. He could have also stalled it earlier with Ho-Oh and potentially gotten some more value out of Kyogre. Oh well, it happens.

Good matches overall, tfp. Swampert still sucks. :)

This probably could have been more concise but oh well.
 

Krauersaut

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This week's Battle of the Week is March Fires vs Level 56, in ORAS UBERS! Please post in this thread when you'll be playing.

A reminder: this is the final week of Battle of the Week until UPL hype settles down, plus I'll be running the replays thread for that, so this'll take a bit of a backseat for a little while. But don't worry, you'll have your meme games and Melee Mewtwos back before you know it. :]
 
Yeah it is, haven't seen him around other than when he was playing his seasonal game tho. Hopefully sometime in the next few days bud
 

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