Type: Null, Silvally Discussion

[Pignot]

I really like fighting ghost coverage on Pokemon (looking at you Marshadow!) and I think this could potentially be helpful for Silvally seeing as it gets Multi-Attack and Shadow Claw.

Ninalex (Silvally) @ Fighting Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Shadow Claw
- Ice Fang
- Swords Dance

So, that gives him optimal coverage and Swords Dance gives him power. By the way, do you like my nickname? It's a name inspired by Full Metal Alchemist's chimera, Nina and Alexander. I find that so depressing and sick but it's a chimera and so is Silvally. They even share the whole white fur coat thing. So, depressingly I am going to name my Silvally Ninalex.

 

[wah543]

Does anyone know what location to use for Type Null in pkhex or something

 

[The Legend Waker]

From what I'm understanding, Type: Null/Silvally is pretty much the Lambda-11 to Arceus's Nu-13.

 

[Roxachronic]

People are hating this mon too much, like is not breaking OU in half by any means but it has a nice plethora of options in the sense that is kinda hard to determine fully what type and set is gonna run, an Scarf set could be actually very good especially with Parting Shot spam, I think Draco Meteor could fill in there since it has a nice 130 base power and can help you deal with Garchomp, Latios, M-Sceptile without the needing to go for Explosion, etc.

I can see this mon being in OU as a fast or tanky pivot, this mon remembers me to M-Sab when everybody thought it was pure trash, you cannot jidge a mon by its base stats, especially when the best mon in OU has worse stats than this, of course movepool and ability have a lot to do with it, but Silvally will surely find its niche in OU.

 

[Aurinko]

Against the incoming weather spam, Dragon will probably be a nice option like Water- and Dragon-Arceus, since going special, you got a plethora of coverage options while still being able to keep momentum with U-Turn/Parting Shot and sporting the necessary bulk, actually.
I'd prefer Dragon here since Electro-spam will be more present than in Ubers.

 

[MylittlePlusle]

Does anyone know what location to use for Type Null in pkhex or something

Aether Foundation.
Met at level 40.

 

[wah543]

Aether Foundation.
Met at level 40.

I don't see that location

 

[Whatevs4]

My god I want Type: Null to get recovery or CM. It would instantly become a UU wall beating out Porygon 2 or able to run a crit proof Crocune like set. As it is, it kinda looks like it's only carving out a niche as a bulky anti-stall 'mon.

 

[Rumrunner]

Some pretty goods Silvally sets already popping up, amazing post by Magcargo (page 5).
SD-Ghost, Dark, Electric all look decent. Scarf set also looks pretty good.

Bulky ghost might become a viable spinblocker.
Parting Shot + any type you want will be amazing support to a lot of teams.
e.g. Fighting+PShot luring Fairies to MegaMetagross. Water+PShot luring grasses to Charizard-Y. Fairy+Pshot luring steels types to MegaMedicham.
Just some examples, the list goes on and on.

I hope the ranking teams decide to separate each type so we can see all forms used to it's maximum potential.

As a colorblind, it will be extra challenging taking this thing on. The noob alert for "SE / NVE / Effective" on the moves might come handy lol

Edit: just saw it also gets Pursuit, yep, this will be a good one when the meta settles.

 

[Omegaarchitect]

Decided to check out a type chart and find out the ideal set of coverage moves for each Swords Dance Set. Most of these are probably not ideal since Parting shot and other Utility moves like Thunder Wave are likely much better than any coverage move swords dance sets can run due to these moves giving silvally much more early game utility. However, some specific swords Dance sets may appreciate running all coverage moves.

Normal

Silvally @ Life Orb
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Crunch
- Double-Edge
- Explosion / Fire Fang / Iron Head

Crunch and Double Edge basically get perfect coverage on all Single type Pokemon. Explosion hits stuff extremely hard, though Fire Fang / Iron Head can cover specific Pokemon that resist both Normal and Dark like Lucario and Diancie. Doubt either move is worth giving up explosion though. Dugtrio or Magneton / zone support might be appreciated for this set, though I think it will do just fine as a lure for most Steel-types thanks to Explosion.

Fire

Silvally @ Fire Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Ice Fang / Iron Head
- Thunder Fang / Rock Slide

Multi-Attack, Ice Fang, and Thunder Fang hit 10 out of the 18 Types super effectively, giving Silvally great super effective coverage. Issue is that Silvally really can't do crap against pokemon that resist Multi attack and are neutral to Ice and Thunder Fang. Iron Head and Rock Slide have worse super effective coverage, but hit targets, specifically Rock and Fire types, much harder.

Water

Silvally @ Water Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Ice Fang / Double Edge
- Thunder Fang / Double Edge

Ice Fang and Thunder Fang hit almost all of water's resist super effectively. Double Edge could be an option over one of these moves however, as it hits water resist for neutral damage and its significantly higher base Power offset's its lack of coverage. Fire Fang might have some use too, as it prevents silvally from being completely walled by ferrothorn.

Grass

Silvally @ Grass Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Double Edge
- Fire Fang

Grass silvally is one of silvally's forms that is most hurt by the lack of EQ, as it would have helped so much in dealing with Steel, Poison, and Fire-types. At the very least, a boosted double edge is still strong enough to deal heft damage to slower Bug, poison and Fire types after they take a bit of prior damage. Fire Fang is used to hit steel-types, while also scoring super effective damage against Grass and Bug types.

Electric

Silvally @ Electric Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Ice Fang
- Double Edge

Multi-attack + Ice Fang get perfect Bolt Beam coverage. Double Edge is there to hit pokemon that resist the combo or are neutral to Ice Fang for decent damage.

Ice

Silvally @ Ice Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Thunder Fang
- Fire Fang


Similar to the last set except with STAB on Ice Multi Attack rather than electric. Fire Fang is probably the best option in the last slot so that silvally can at least scratch Steel-types.

Fighting

Silvally @ Fighting Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Iron Head
- Crunch


Iron Head and Crunch deal super effective damage to virtually every fighting resist. Might be worth running rock slide / Ice Fang to hit Bulky Flying-types like Zapdos, but its not like they will be phazed by the moves due to their low BP.

Poison

Silvally @ Poison Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Crunch
- Fire Fang / Ice Fang / Iron head


Poison is really terrible for an offensive typing and Silvally unfortunately lack the coverage to deal with most of its resist. Crunch at least gives good neutral coverage against most poison resist and Fire Fang, Ice Fang, or Iron Head can hit one of its resist for super effective damage. Heavily appreciates support from Dugtrio and Magneton / zone.

Ground

Silvally @ Ground Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Ice Fang
- Rock Slide

Ground has super good neutral coverage and silvally luckily has the moves to hit most ground resist for super effective damage. Ice Fang and Rock Slide basically hit all ground resist and immunties for super effective damage, barring a few exceptionss like Eelektross.

Flying

Silvally @ Flying Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Iron Head
- Fire Fang

Another Silvally form that would have loved to have earthquake in its arsenal. Iron Head and Fire Fang are unfortunately its best defense against Steel and Rock Pokemon. Crunch might be used on this set to give Silvally better neutral coverage in 2 moves, allowing it to run parting shot in the last slot.

Psychic

Silvally @ Psychic Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- X-Scissors / U-Turn
- Fire Fang / Crunch

One of Silvally's more interesting forms. X-Scissors and U-Turn hit Dark and Psychic-types for super effective damage while Fire Fang hits Steel-types for super effective damage. Crunch could be a good option too since it has good neutral coverage agianst most foes and can scare away slower ghost-types.

Rock

Silvally @ Rock Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Ice Fang
- Fire Fang

Yet another form hurt by the lack of Earthquake. Fire Fang and Ice Fang can at least hit Steel and Ground-types super effectively while also denting specific Grass-types like Breloom.

Bug

Silvally @ Bug Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Iron Head
- Crunch

Bug unfortunately just had too many resist for silvally to deal with in a single SD set. Crunch + Iron head hit Ghost and Rock-types super effectively while hitting all bug resist for neutral damage. U-Turn or Fire Fang might be decent options over Iron Head as well.

Ghost

Silvally @ Ghost Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- X-Scissor
- Filler

Since Ghost STAB has such good neutral coverage, ghost silvally barely need to rely on its coverage moves. X-Scissors hits Dark-types for super effective damage and last slot really depends on your teams needs.

Dragon

Silvally @ Dragon Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Iron Head
- Fire Fang

Very Straightforward. Multi-Attack hits most targets for solid damage, Iron Head and Fire Fang hit Steel and Fairies that resist Multi-Attack while also doing fair damage to most Ice Types. Support from Dugtrio or Magneton / zone would probably be ideal for this set.

Dark

Silvally @ Dark Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Double Edge
- Fire Fang

Another Silvally form that gets good coverage with its STAB alone. Double Edge is the best coverage move to use, as it hits many of Dark's resist good damage thanks to its high base power. Fire Fang is used to hit specific resist like Lucario.

Steel

Silvally @ Steel Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Crunch
- Fire Fang / Double Edge

Crunch hits almost all of Multi-Attacks's resist for neutral damage. Fire Fang hits Steel-types who can usually take a boosted Crunch for good damage (specifically Magneton) while Double edge can deal respectable damage to bulkier Water, Fire, and Electric-types.

Fairy

Silvally @ Steel Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Double Edge
- Fire Fang

Another Silvally form screwed over by the lack of Earthquake. Oh well. Double Edge deals respectable damage to most poison and Fire types after a boost while Fire Fang can dent most steel-types. Probably would benefit from Magneton / zone support.

Holy crap, I admire the dedication man. These seem really nice. Weighing all the options here, I wanna say that Dark, Ghost, and Electric might be some of the better ones imo.

I think Sylvally's going to be a Pokemon that will, staying true to its nature, be able to adapt to the metagame with the type-shifting property it possesses.

Also I did not know that it got explosion, that's kind of awesome.

 

[Roxachronic]

Is Fire Fang getting specific kills that are not available with Flame Charge?

I could see a pseudo Double Dance set like:


Silvally @ Steel/Fairy Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spee
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi Attack
- Flame Charge
- Crunch/ Pursuit

Basically this set takes advantage of either Fairy or Steel mono typing to scare threats or force switches thanks to their overall good resistances, against Offense go for a Flame Charge and against more bulky mons go for a SD, for example Steel Silvally can go for a Flame Charge against a Mega Diancie and threaten her next turn, set up a SD against incoming M-Scizor or Ferro and kill them with Flame Charge next turn or damage them heavily.

I think we are overlooking its access to a good portion of special moves, particularly Ice Beam + Thunderbolt, it makes Revenge Killing and putting a lot of pressure and forcing switches to help with pivoting when using Parting Shot, so maybe:


Silvally @ Choice Scarf
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Sp Attck / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Parting Shot
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt/Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower/Flash Cannon

It can threaten M-Scizor, Ferrothorn, M-Diancie,M-Sceptile, Garchomp, Lando-T, Keldeo, on the top of my head, the main goal is forcing the opponent into switching because they dont know if you are Physical, Special and what coverage moves you are using, this is more true on a Normal Sylvally because its item is hidden, it has only one weakness and with a solid 95/95/95 bulk I can see it coming at least once consistently to either RK or provide momentum for another mon so it can set up(like Char X).

I think the Explosion+Parting Shot Scarf is also very good but has less coverage options, like Fangs are very bad at doing damage even with super effective hits unless x4 so if scouted its somewhat more viable to work around because the coverage moves lack firepower.

I am definitely going to experiment with this mon( pun not intended since it is well uh... an experiment) , still in the long run I think Parting Shot sets are going to be its main niche IMO.

 

[Valiant Scizor]

Is Fire Fang getting specific kills that are not available with Flame Charge?

I could see a pseudo Double Dance set like:


Silvally @ Steel/Fairy Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spee
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi Attack
- Flame Charge
- Crunch/ Pursuit

Basically this set takes advantage of either Fairy or Steel mono typing to scare threats or force switches thanks to their overall good resistances, against Offense go for a Flame Charge and against more bulky mons go for a SD, for example Steel Silvally can go for a Flame Charge against a Mega Diancie and threaten her next turn, set up a SD against incoming M-Scizor or Ferro and kill them with Flame Charge next turn or damage them heavily.

I think we are overlooking its access to a good portion of special moves, particularly Ice Beam + Thunderbolt, it makes Revenge Killing and putting a lot of pressure and forcing switches to help with pivoting when using Parting Shot, so maybe:


Silvally @ Choice Scarf
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Sp Attck / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Parting Shot
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt/Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower/Flash Cannon

It can threaten M-Scizor, Ferrothorn, M-Diancie,M-Sceptile, Garchomp, Lando-T, Keldeo, on the top of my head, the main goal is forcing the opponent into switching because they dont know if you are Physical, Special and what coverage moves you are using, this is more true on a Normal Sylvally because its item is hidden, it has only one weakness and with a solid 95/95/95 bulk I can see it coming at least once consistently to either RK or provide momentum for another mon so it can set up(like Char X).



I think the Explosion+Parting Shot Scarf is also very good but has less coverage options, like Fangs are very bad at doing damage even with super effective hits unless x4 so if scouted its somewhat more viable to work around because the coverage moves lack firepower.

I am definitely going to experiment with this mon( pun not intended since it is well uh... an experiment) , still in the long run I think Parting Shot sets are going to be its main niche IMO.

I desperately wanted Type:Null to get Parting Shot :(( It would have been quite good with Eviolite, Parting Shot, and identical offenses.

I think it will take a little while to find the best sets, but I think a standard set of Ice Beam, Flamethrower, TBolt, Parting Shot, with either lefties, or a Fairy/Electric Memory, should be decent enough, at least in the lower tiers. Scarf also kind of sounds interesting... I have a hard time envisioning it in OU, but there are so many possible sets that it makes it nigh impossible to think of them all right now... I'm super intrigued to see where this lands.

 

[SwampySwampert]

I can't see Silvally getting much use in higher tiers, but maybe in RU or UU. Being unable to use an item is going to hurt it.

 

[Swagodile]

Even with Parting Shot, Eviolite Null would be crap because it has no recovery.

 

[UltiMario]

I think a Parting Shot pivot set might be one of this things better alternatives (especially because Z-Crystals are not in high demand)

Silvally@Darkinium Z
248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest
Parting Shot
Tri Attack
Flamethrower / Thunderbolt
Ice Beam / Thunderbolt

This is a little different from most the sets being put up here, its a bulky pivot that utilizes Parting Shot's insane Z-Power: 100% HP restoration on switch-in. Tri Attack gives you your strongest STAB option, while Flamethrower, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt can round your coverage in different ways. You Parting Shot out of anything that you can't deal with and get relatively free switch-ins due to the attack drops. Later in the game, you can go for a fairly slow Z-Parting Shot to give your sweeper/cleaner a second life, similar to Healing Wish (except you get stat drops to make it easier to set up, and Silvally isn't dead).

You'd be correct to think that early and mid-game this set would be pretty low value, but the threat of Z-Parting Shot is pretty big late game.

 

[Valiant Scizor]

I think a Parting Shot pivot set might be one of this things better alternatives (especially because Z-Crystals are not in high demand)

Silvally@Darkinium Z
248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest
Parting Shot
Tri Attack
Flamethrower / Thunderbolt
Ice Beam / Thunderbolt

This is a little different from most the sets being put up here, its a bulky pivot that utilizes Parting Shot's insane Z-Power: 100% HP restoration on switch-in. Tri Attack gives you your strongest STAB option, while Flamethrower, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt can round your coverage in different ways. You Parting Shot out of anything that you can't deal with and get relatively free switch-ins due to the attack drops. Later in the game, you can go for a fairly slow Z-Parting Shot to give your sweeper/cleaner a second life, similar to Healing Wish (except you get stat drops to make it easier to set up, and Silvally isn't dead).

You'd be correct to think that early and mid-game this set would be pretty low value, but the threat of Z-Parting Shot is pretty big late game.

I really like this set tbh. I wanna give it a whirl and see if 95 speed is enough for it, and if being just a Normal-type hinders it too much. But definitely seems super interesting.

 

[GeneralNameless]

I think we are overlooking its access to a good portion of special moves, particularly Ice Beam + Thunderbolt,

Yeah, a good portion of its strongest moves - Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Surf, Draco Meteor, and Hyper Beam - are all special.

I could see someone running a Special Attacker with an Expert Belt for some strong coverage, although you'd likely lose out on any Normal-Type STAB.

And while plenty of people here have mentioned Z-Parting Shot, a potential option for a Special set would be Z-Heal Block, which provides an additional +2 to your Special Attack in addition to blocking recovery from your opponent. Combined with good coverage, it could be just the thing your team needs to break through a physical wall.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Even with Parting Shot, Eviolite Null would be crap because it has no recovery.

It still gets U-Turn, though. It may not be an effective wall, but it sounds like an amazing pivot.

 

[Cobalt314]

Question: would it be better to analyze Silvally and all its memories as one Pokémon, or split them up in the same manner as Arceus? Analyzing them all separately would make it easier to determine exactly what role can be performed by which memory, but if they all fall into separate tiers it would become difficult to make sure the proper memories don't go below their respective tiers.

 

[Swagodile]

Question: would it be better to analyze Silvally and all its memories as one Pokémon, or split them up in the same manner as Arceus? Analyzing them all separately would make it easier to determine exactly what role can be performed by which memory, but if they all fall into separate tiers it would become difficult to make sure the proper memories don't go below their respective tiers.

All of Arceus's formes are tiered separately, they're just all Uber because Arceus's stats are too absurd for OU regardless of form.

Each Silvally form will be tiered separately because that's how we do forms.

 

[Sulfurian]

I feel like mixed would be a better set than pure special. Multi-attack is just too good to pass up if you use a memory for it. Any physical stab of your choice.
252 speed evs/whatever is good for attack spread
Naive
Multi-attack
Ice beam,
Thunderbolt
Parting shot

 

[Gurkenbrot]

Even with Parting Shot, Eviolite Null would be crap because it has no recovery.

It is a slow and really bulky U-Turn user with offensive presence. Sure, the lack of Recovery sucks. It basically means that it can't do it's job very often. However, if it does it's job, then something will die or, at least, get crippled very badly.

 

[Hitzel]

Honestly, after talking with a buddy, I think a special Scarf set with Parting Shot + 3 attacks seems like an easy and effective use of Sivaly. You have Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Flash Cannon - pick one of those to ditch for Parting Shot and you have your set. Passable bulk, good coverage, and Parting Shot for momentum. Honestly sounds solid to me.

 

[readytolose]

I would not run Scarf Silvally without Explosion tbh

 

[Jerdor]

Honestly, after talking with a buddy, I think a special Scarf set with Parting Shot + 3 attacks seems like an easy and effective use of Sivaly. You have Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Flash Cannon - pick one of those to ditch for Parting Shot and you have your set. Passable bulk, good coverage, and Parting Shot for momentum. Honestly sounds solid to me.

I would recommend running a spammable stab(tri attack, double edge) or explosion with this set. It doesn't have the base stats or ability to just run boltbeam + coverage(like genesect)