Gen 6 Top 10 Titans of the Ubers 6th Gen Metagame

keys

It's Prime Time
is a Forum Moderatoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
Voting for: Xerneas
Because: It dominated all the way through the 6th generation, being arguably the most dangerous sweeper throughout both XY and ORAS with it's fantastic signature move, and with a huge array of coverage options that could turn checks into not-checks, and it had a fair number of other dangerous sets as well at various points, capitalising on the popularity of Geomancy sets too render checks to those sets incapable of doing their jobs (ie: Block)
Aberforth, you should make it so people should bold the vote names to make the gathering of results faster/simpler.

No Pokemon has been as influential as the rainbow stag in this generation. Easily the most influential mon if joining both X & Y and OR/AS. Not going into further details since Aberforth has already succinctly proposed the arguments I'd have elucubrated.

My vote also goes to Xerneas
 

Aberforth

is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Ubers Leader
Idea was people follow the Voting for thing so I can control F to make it easier. Bolding can work but I'd prefer people just follow the format.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Biased coming in since this was my own nom but I really don't care...

#1) Voting for Primal Groudon



Primal Groudon defined the ORAS Ubers metagame since its inception pretty much (also of course after Mega Ray had been banned), with its multitude of sets, beign able to adapt with pratically all changes that the meta had been through whiile still being able to be used on all team variants. I understand the Xerneas argument since it has been dominant since XY Ubers, however I feel people need to consider just how volatile Primal Groudon was for the entirety of ORAS Ubers and how it warped the metagame so much around it, even more so than Xerneas imo. Def Xern is #2 tho.
 

The Gunner

formerly Enzo Gorlami
is a Tiering Contributor
Voting for: Xerneas
Reasons:
1) Variety of unpredictable movesets (Geomancy Aroma/ Geomancy Rest/ Geomancy Block/ Scarf/ Specs).
2) One of the few efficient dark type checks
3) Very difficult to beat with only Primal Groudon/ Ho-oh/ Steel types being prominent answers.
4) Even with the mentioned checks, there's no guarantee any of them will successfully beat Xerneas because of the set variations.
5) When playing against Xerneas, one must play in a way where one's Xerneas checks are at a good enough health percent to beat Xerneas, otherwise it's quite easy for Xerneas to tear through the team.

My main argument vs other mons would be that Xerneas can straight up just 6-0 your team even if you have good enough checks, however other sweepers Like Mega-Salamence, Primal-Groudon and Arceus aren't on the same threat level.

E @below: Xerneas doesn't need to perform a variety of roles to be good, it's great at what it does. Just because it fits better on offensive/ bulky offensive teams better than other teams, doesn't take away its sheer offensive prowess. Also, I do agree that Primal-Groudon fits any team and a team without Primal-Groudon is incomplete, but that's because of the way the meta is and the fact that there aren't too many Kyogre, Fairy checks that can set rocks at the same time. I still don't feel Primal Groudon deserves to be number 1 just because it has superior typing, ability and stats than every other mon in ORAS.
 
Last edited:

Daenys

Banned deucer.
Vote Primal Groudon for #1

I feel Primal Groudon deserves this over Xerneas because despite Xerneas maintaining it's relevance as a sweeper in X/Y and OR/AS , that alone does not offer a good enough compromise or a basis for voting it over Primal Groudon for #1 because of how the latter completely eclipses Xerneas in it's ubiquity on teams and it's versatility which is incomparable to anything else in the tier.
Xerneas is largely one dimensional as it attempts to sweep with it's primary signature move and attempts to get around it's checks with it's other two moveslots , is a mediocre cleric with Aromatherapy and is an acceptable scarf user primarily because it's the only scarf user this generation whose viability is ironically dictated by Primal Groudon itself , owing to how the entire metagame twisted and adapted beneath it . Unlike Xerneas , Primal Groudon can actually fulfill a variety of roles as a physical sponge , a special sponge , a hazard setter , as a way to spread status and also functions as a very threatening sweeper and is actually good at them unlike Xerneas which is a passable scarfer and a threatening sweeper .

I feel that "good mon 6-0's teams" should not be the only metric while ranking because it ignores all the other roles which facilitate said sweeper to actually find room to sweep.

Primal Groudon however fulfills both offensive and defensive utility roles and does them really well and with it's perfect combination of superlative stats and ability and typing and the fact that no team is complete without it, a bragging right it has sole claim to, is without comparison , quite simply the best Pokemon this generation.

And as a final justification , I just want to point out that Xerneas while maintaining it's relevance in both X/Y and OR/AS comes nowhere near close to Primal Groudon's impact in teambuilding as it is shares the "mandatory Arceus slot" in teambuilding which coupled with all other traits superior to Xerneas and everything else in the tier , far eclipses what Xerneas has accomplished in X/Y and OR/AS.
 
Last edited:

Calais

Banned deucer.
anyone voting xern>donner is actin whack. when pdon getting 99% usage and is a staple on every time, not just offense, it deserves to be 1. it's then most viable mon and best mon in the tier so I don't understand how anyone versed in this metagame can vote otherwise

don

edit: didn't realize this was for both xy and oras, but still voting pdon. at least the other arguments make more sense now.
 
Last edited:
Voting for: Primal Groudon

On mobile rn so forgive me for not posting a reason. I'll fix up my post when I'm home.

I know we're supposed to take both generations into consideration, but while Xerneas is the clear #1 in literally any other situation, Primal Groudon has seriously dominated the ORAS metagame to the point where I feel there is no other worthy candidate for #1. The fact that it has unprecedented usage, being on literally almost EVERY single team that is remotely viable in the Ubers metagame(and having the statistics in this forum to back that up, too), AND has completely neutered former top tier threats(anyone remember Kyogre or Palkia?) demonstrates not only the versatility of the mon, but also just how good it is at what it does. You HAVE to run checks to this Pokemon in the meta - and even then, there's always the possibility that it will still win/dent your team because of how good it is, period. Teams prepped for Double Dance P-Don might get dunked on by the RP special set, etc.

Now I myself believe that there's going to be a universal consensus for Xerneas at #2, and that rightfully should happen. Its plethora of sets will destroy teams that aren't prepared/healthy enough to combat it, and it has been around for the entirety of the Gen 6 metagame. It's just that Primal Groudon is such a special exception thanks to its nearly godlike qualities, and it has shaped this metagame more than anything I've ever read about past tiers before.
 
Last edited:
Voting for: Primal-Groudon
Reason: It's the best mon, period. It fits on every playstyle and effectively facilitated the rise of offense as a consistent team archetype. Xern is obviously potent, but to say the meta doesn't revolve around PDon is a blatant lie and to have it ranked at anything other than #1 would not accurately represent ORAS Ubers as a metagame.
 
XY and ORAS both considered there is no way Xern isn't #1 lol. If ORAS was the only meta considered I'd maybe vote Pdon, but that's not the case and it seems like most people voting for it couldn't read properly. Or I guess these people didn't play XY Ubers which is fine I guess, but even then like...

-GeoXern (even in ORAS) is the most dangerous set in the game. If you have played enough Ubers this gen you know there a mon that can pull out the ridiculous wins. Teams with multiple checks can still be swept by a Xern without any coverage moves.
-Xern introduction, along with its fairy type, was the most significant change from bw2 to xy. This is important to note for the purpose of this thread, as we want to look at what shaped 6th gen ubers the most as a whole. Ubers centered around strong dragon attacks in all previous gens and Xern turned this notion on its head. It forced the most radical change for an ubers generation shift. Pdon isn't even close, everyone had ground checks. Pdon is stronger than most grounds but it's not principially that much different...

Voting for: Xerneas
 
Last edited:
Xerneas:

Even though the most obvious choice for this place would look like P-Don, he is not actually a dominating force that dominates the meta, P-Don is just overused because of him having utility in 99,999% of the teams. Xerneas in the other hand is a beast, it single handily was capable of shifting many offensive and defensive threats, making them not that viable or way more viable then they should. There for, I declare Xerneas as the 1st spot in this List.
 
couldn't read properly.
Confirming as illiterate.

Now that I've actually read the OP: Why are we voting for gen 6 as a whole and not XY and ORAS separately? The metagames are different enough that viability in one doesn't translate to viability in the other; mons like Kyogre, Palkia, and Blaziken are barely given an afterthought in ORAS whereas they were top threats in XY. Besides that, most of the XY threats weren't even nominated as potential "titans" (see Kyogre, Mewtwo, Yveltal, Dialga, Blaziken, Zekrom, etc) and the majority of the (player/voter)base hasn't touched XY on a competitive level.

Here's a couple of sample lists for comparison:
Xerneas
Gengar
Groudon
Arceus-Normal
Kyogre
Ho-Oh
Salamence
Darkrai
Mewtwo (all formes)
Yveltal / Dialga

Xerneas
Gengar
Kyogre
Arceus-Normal
Mewtwo (all formes)
Yveltal
Palkia
Ho-Oh
Blaziken
Gothitelle

Groudon
Xerneas
Salamence
Gengar
Darkrai
Arceus-Normal
Ho-Oh
Arceus-Water
Lugia
Deoxys-Speed

Notice the massive discrepancies?
 

Aberforth

is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Ubers Leader
Because the idea is for the entire generation, not the two halves of the generation. I did say quite clearly in the OP that this was for both XY and ORAS, and separating them when, as you said, many people haven't played XY in a long while would just lower interest in the projects, and also diminish good conversation. Case in point, is Pdon's effect over only half of the generation outweighing the effect of Xerneas, Ekiller or Ho-oh which were huge threats throughout the entire generation? I'd put it at number 2 personally, but there is a conversation to be had about whether the severe effect it had on the metagame while it was here outweighs how much of an effect ekiller had throughout the entire generation as the best Arceus forme.
 
xerneas

with pdon you have mons that are known to check it almost all of the time, such as gira-o, lati, groundceus, etc. yes pdon is 99% in usage but that has more to do with the support and synergy it provides within a team than how good it is individually, especially with its lack of recovery. xerneas on the other hand dominates teambuilding like no other mon, i would be willing to bet it's the first thing most people think about when considering what they need answers for. one geo sweeps unprepared teams, and rest/aroma allows it to function as support too, and much of the stuff that 'checks' it (things like klekfi, ho-oh) are actually beaten 1v1 by common sets.
 
Because the idea is for the entire generation, not the two halves of the generation.
Except the shift from XY to ORAS was equivalent to prior generation changes (think DPP -> BW), not mid-generation changes (BW -> BW2) in the sense it completely changed how ubers is played. Outside of the big 4 that dominated both metagames (Xerneas, Gengar, Arceus-Normal, Ho-oh), there was a massive shift in what was considered viable. By the numbers, 40% of S rank, 33% of A+ rank, 14% of A rank, and 56% of A- rank (37% of pokemon in ranks S to A-) experienced a major drop of 4 subranks or more in the shift from XY to ORAS. Moving past this, the core of pokemon that remained in the A ranks through the shift no longer run the same sets from the XY era in ORAS ie bulky SR Lando-T being the only XY set vs Scarf the only ORAS set, SpD/LO Dialga being the only XY sets vs offensive Shuca being the only ORAS set, WoW fast support Waterceus vs Toxic Bold Waterceus, etc, etc. Basically, there's such a large difference between what mons are viable and the roles they provide that you can't group both metagames together and make accurate generalizations about them.

I did say quite clearly in the OP that this was for both XY and ORAS, and separating them when, as you said, many people haven't played XY in a long while would just lower interest in the projects, and also diminish good conversation.
I feel like this point is slightly contradictory; if people haven't played XY and can't give educated opinions about the metagame, why include it (besides the obligatory "because gen 6 metagame" response which I addressed above)? It's obvious that the majority of nominations were made with only ORAS in mind, as dominant XY mons (read: S ranks Kyogre and Mewtwo) and those ranked highly in both metas (Dialga, Yveltal, Deoxys-S, Giratina-o) were left off the list. Plus, a decent chunk of the voters, myself included, voted strictly off ORAS viability (just read the reasoning for everyone but Hack and Klefkwi).

Sorry if this is derailing the thread but I needed a reason to procrastinate.


Changing my vote to Xerneas for #1 as it is undeniably the most dominant mon in XY / ORAS as a whole.

Things to consider, assuming the thread's format stays the same: Gengar (best mega in both) vs Arceus-Normal (best Arc-forme in both) vs Primal Groudon (completely dominant in 1) for rank 2, placement of half-generation dominant mons (Kyogre / Mewtwo for XY, Salamence for ORAS).
 
Last edited:
My vote will be for Xerneas as well. As most have said already, it's been a premier threat throughout the entirety of 6th gen, and still is a dominating force even now. GeoXern isn't it's only set. It can perform many other roles:
  • Choice Scarf/Specs (I've even seen a Banded lure version somewhere on this site, but it's kinda niche tbh)
  • Mixed Life Orb 4 attacks
  • Defensive Aromatherapy RestTalk
  • Calm Mind RestTalk
Hell, even GeoXern is capable of being run in many different ways. Sets can use moves like Aromatherapy to be rid of Klefki's Thunder Wave paralysis, HP Ground for a safe way to hit Primal Groudon and Klefki, Grass Knot for both Primals, Thunder for Ho-Oh, Focus Blast for things like Steelceus and Ferrothorn, HP Fire for aforementioned Ferrothorn and Scizor, and much more. It has a phenomenal physical, special and support movepool with near endless possibilities.

Its offensive and defensive prowess has barely changed even with the introduction of Primal Groudon, and that's why it should be in the #1 slot. I would have voted for Primal Groudon if it was included in XY Ubers, but alas.
 
Xerneas

If it was just for ORAS, I'd put PDon first no question, but Xerneas was not only the best mon in xy, but it also an absolute terror in oras, so overall I have to say that Xerneas is the top dog of gen 6 ubers
 

Aberforth

is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Ubers Leader
Xerneas - 8
Pdon - 4

Xerneas takes the number one spot! Now for the number two spot, as a reminder the options are:

Mega Gengar
Xerneas
Klefki
Deoxys-Attack
Arceus-Water
Primal-Groudon
Ho-oh
Mega Salamence
Arceus-Normal
Darkrai
Lugia
Rayquaza


As another reminder, this is for both XY and ORAS.

With that said:

Voting for: Primal Groudon
Reason: Because for me the extent to which it dominated ORAS ubers makes up for the fact that it was not present during XY, with almost every conceivable set being viable, from physical to special to support to rest talk, if there is a way pdon can be used, it has been used that way. Every time something shows up that can deal with Pdon, Pdon has ways of evolving so that those things dont beat him. It cant do this and also do all of it's other roles, thankfully, but the sheer amount of flexibility and the dominance of Pdon make me think it had a greater impact over generation 6 than some of the constant threats like Ekiller did.
 

keys

It's Prime Time
is a Forum Moderatoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
As much as Primal Groudon was a dominant force in ORAS, it's absolute absence from XY does severely hinder it's influence when judging the generation as a whole. For consistency purposes, I'm:

Voting for: Mega Gengar - the terror of the tier ever since it's introduction. This pokemon has greatly shaped the metagame and has forced a lot of adaptation around it. Even though it's pretty much one dimensional in regards to the role it performs, it still does it with premier quality. I cannot stress enough how valuable Mega Gengar can be when supporting a team, and it has fulfilled that role with extreme efficacy, almost even getting itself banned from Ubers.
 
Last edited:
I suppose I'll put in a vote for Mega Gengar, aka balance breaker extraordinaire. Since my last vote I've taken a look at a lot of teams and realized just how influential the mon is. Primal Groudon can wait one more rank.
 
Voting for: Mega Gengar
Reason: Mega Gengar has shaped ubers like no other pokemon. In XY, pokemon weak to Gengar are considered (nearly) unviable and the list of these mons grows longer with each new tech discovered; Reflect Type, WoW+Hex, Taunt+3 Atks, Hypnosis, Perish Trap, etc, all invalidate the use of certain mons. It changed ubers policy like nothing before, effectively being suspect tested twice before the end of the generation. In ORAS, it retains the title of best mega forme and still possesses an amazing movepool, typing, ability, and stat spread to trap and clean effectively. It's dominance during XY and staying power during the shift to ORAS, in addition to it's effect on metagame policy, make it #2 in my eyes.
 
Last edited:
I'm gonna have to say Mega Gengar as well. It's really difficult to find consistent counterplay vs this thing, especially when running a bulkier balance build. Shadow Tag on something with this much speed, power and somewhat-passable bulk when invested in the correct places is something to be revered, if you ask me. Even Blissey on Stall teams, a playstyle considered to be borderline unviable at the time of Mega Gengar's introduction before Mega Sableye was around, is often forced to forego leftovers and run Shed Shell just to survive. Being a Ghost type in Ubers is also a major plus as you're immune to the ever common Extreme Speed while also having the Poison typing to resist Xerneas's Moonblast. It was one of the best megas in XY and it's still top tier in ORAS.
 
If this list supposedly counts XY and ORAS why is kyogre not on here? oo

being like a top 2 (top 3?) mon in ubers for all of XY seems pretty titan-worthy D:!

I guess if u separate ogre/pogre its more arguable but still I think ogre on its own is enough to be nominated.
 

keys

It's Prime Time
is a Forum Moderatoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
If this list supposedly counts XY and ORAS why is kyogre not on here? oo

being like a top 2 (top 3?) mon in ubers for all of XY seems pretty titan-worthy D:!

I guess if u separate ogre/pogre its more arguable but still I think ogre on its own is enough to be nominated.
It could have definitely earned a spot, but no one nominated it up for vote.
 
If this list supposedly counts XY and ORAS why is kyogre not on here? oo

being like a top 2 (top 3?) mon in ubers for all of XY seems pretty titan-worthy D:!

I guess if u separate ogre/pogre its more arguable but still I think ogre on its own is enough to be nominated.
There's no doubt that Kyogre was pretty much one of the best Ubers of XY, but that same Kyogre has little to no merit now in ORAS, and even Primal Kyogre is overshadowed by Primal Groudon by a wide margin. I'd vote Arceus-N or Ho-Oh before I'd vote Kyogre, personally, but I myself agree that Kyogre was a titan of XY and should have a spot somewhere in the countdown. However, it's not its time yet, imo.
 
Voting For: Arceus-Normal

This mon was a staple on offense and some buky offense teams throughout XY and ORAS, and was your go-to mon if you needed a strong form of priority. Not being constrained by a plate, ability to run Jolly and Adamant sets with Recover due to good all-around bulk, unprepared teams are easily swept by this. I'd say aside from Xerneas it's one of the most important considerations in teambuilding; its movepool gives it very few true counters; being able to run Ice Beam to hit mence, Recover to stall out Gira-o, and even Magic Coat for support Arceus and to antilead HO. imo it outshines Mega Gengar since Gengar is frail af with no possible recovery, can usually only get one kill per game, and most teams in ORAS already have a built-in check to it in Primal Groudon.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top