Metagame Tiering surveys and results

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EviGaro

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
RU Leader
Hlelo,

This thread will serve as the hub for all tiering surveys moving forward. If you want to reply to them and see the results, be sure to check our updates in this! We already did one quickly this year but will move to this format now to reach more people and make it simpler to keep track of for everyone.

Now, here's the link to the second survey. Our Council is a bit split on what to do in the metagame, but generally when talking those main points were said to be the most concerning ones potentially. If you have something else to add, be sure to let us know in the question to this effect. We're a bit more broad with our question about Hyper Offence in this tier, because it's... not super simple. Some options are cleaner, some require potential PR involvement, and there's many way to see it if you believe it's an issue so we'd really like input there if you think something stands out more, especially as we're seeing the playstyle perform pretty consistently in Open and RUPL. Oh also, there's a question about a specific tour that would be used as a fun way to pass the time for the community, but if you'd rather another type of tour, also let us know, I specifically said that one because it came back a lot more in discussions I had.

edit: This survey will stay open until tomorrow btw, I'll start checking in the evening and give the results soon after.
 
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EviGaro

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
RU Leader
Ok so for the results:

- Like UU did, the survey was split between the regular survey, linked in the first post, and a qualified survey sent by Feliburn in PM for those that performed in several tours / started in RUPL. There's more replies in the qualified section which isn't entirely surprising, it was in line with what I expected, and little overlap between both surveys which is close to ideal.

- The first part of the survey was about Togekiss and Toxtricity specifically, and you can see the results for regular and qualified here. The difference on Togekiss is, honestly, pretty significant. Regular results would strongly push for an immediate action, but qualified would say at best something to monitor in the future, but not even worth a suspect right now. Such a difference, especially in the middle of Open, makes it unlikely we will move forward with action on Togekiss, but of course the NP thread is open if you want to make the case for it. Toxtricity has some discrepancy, but neither result push for a strong ban on it at all, and generally seem in line with the thought that it's a really stupid wallbreaker but that's about it.

- While on the topic of individual mons, Xurkitree got a lot of mentions in the other. Discussion over the Boots set has started to take off again in the Discord, is that the one pushing it over the top? We appreciate any clarification on this as it's definitely something we have talked about in Council but it rarely ever amounted to serious consideration so far.

- The second part of the survey was about Hyper Offence specifically, first in the degree to which it's a problem and second how to solve that problem. See regular and qualified here. Results here are actually way closer, both have a roughly similar amount of votes in the 3-5 section of the graphic, and both have a plurality of votes for screens to be the main issue, with some also saying screens + Cloyster or Screens + Necrozma. This is quite possibly the next target for us, and I know someone asked if a post could be made to clarify how exactly HO is an issue by someone who considers it problematic. I might make such a post, but anyone who voted in favour of action is of course welcome to! Screens is, like I mentioned in the OP, quite possibly the trickiest thing to actually act on though, as it requires PR and tiers coordinating at a different level. We're not exactly opposed to it, at all, but it's something to consider.

- Finally, enjoyment and the competitive aspect of the metagame. Both regular and qualified have very similar answers here too, both hovering in the 7-9 bracket. That's pretty nice honestly, but obviously we'd like to make it better for you people.

- Most people were pretty high on Feliburn, which is cool cause I also love Feliburn

- RULT was actually a pick with very positive feedback, with a lot of suggestions about making it part of the circuit again. It's not actually impossible to do it this year? We'll talk about it more with other contributors in the near future but it's very likely such a tour will happen in some fashion this year now.

- Also sorry for some hiccups, it was my first survey lol. I know someone said maybe it should be better done because a question couldn't be ignored, but well I fought with the survey on something that was completely not needed and forgot to change that back. Oops. However I edited some mistakes that were pointed out to me, thank you to those who did!
 
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EviGaro

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
RU Leader
Few months later, here is the new survey!

IMPORTANT NOTE: if you qualified for RULT playoffs, another survey will be sent to you later on tonight!
As the meta changed drastically with this tier shift, a lot has appeared to the front of the metagame and so there's several potential issues that have been seen in the metagame. Many have talked openly about the Xurkitree / Mienshao pairing, so they start off this survey with little surprise. What to do with these two and how we proceed has been a discussion ongoing, and so we ask you what precisely should be done in your mind. Other issues have been discussed, with old classics like Durant and Reuniclus coming up on the chopping block, and Polteageist's resurgence without a centralizing dark type has been somewhat concerning as well. However, it still has issues, and so do the two others, and RULT has seen plenty of dark types being used that deal with it perfectly well. Speaking of RULT, RU now has another extremely viable weather, with Ninetales-Alola largely facilitating hail offence, despite losing light clay, due to its far superior utility and offensive tools. Is it too much?

Survey should be open until around 5pm Saturday, will edit if that changes.
 

EviGaro

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
RU Leader
Checked out the survey after what I offered as a deadline, here are the results after some discussions with the Council as to how to proceed now. The order is always the same, first is the open survey, second the survey to the qualifiers:

- Xurkitree and Mienshao
- Reuniclus and Polteageist
- Durant and weather

Some quick thoughts:
- Mienshao, Xurkitree and Reuniclus were clearly above the rest in terms of what people find concerning in the tier, Reuniclus was generally a slight step below, albeit not very significantly, so we'll wait a bit for this then. Mienshao was closely above Xurkitree in concerns, and this was more obvious in what people wanted to suspect first: both open and qualified gave a plurality to suspecting Mienshao first. Given how clearly people find it problematic, expect something soon.
- Durant, weather and Polteageist trailed, although Durant was noticeably fourth in this survey for both. It's always something that in RU we expect to look at eventually so the next few months will tell us more there. Weather and Polteageist so low confirm recent trends, though it is interesting that weather was more problematic for qualified users. Sample size is extremely small though, and it's not significantly so, so there's very little to confirm anything more than it is.
- On how enjoyable and competitive this tier is, both open and qualified have very similar averages, although it seems slightly less competitive for qualified. Enjoyment is majority wise at 7 and above for both, but the given that most people are clearly favouring action sooner than later on several mons those numbers are unsurprising.
- Someone called Sensei Axew Diet Expulso and I cannot get over it
- Nice feedback on the tour question! It's funny cause one survey suggest ruwc more and the other was more into ru snake lol, but it's nice that both tours seemed to have their supporters. We're discussing another fun idea that came about recently, I am not sure it's going to take that place or just be an addition, but looking forward to seeing if that can work.
 
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phantom

Banned deucer.
New survey is out! With the metagame now experiencing little change from tier shifts at this juncture, we thought now would be an appropriate time to send out the third survey. This survey will close on 10/13. Responses to this survey will be used to determine our next course of action in terms of tiering.
 

phantom

Banned deucer.
And here are the survey results:




Based on these results, most respondents seem to view the tier favorably on some level. Interestingly enough, no one answered 1 or 2 on either of the first two questions.

Necrozma

62% of respondents answered 6 or higher on Necrozma, indicating some preference towards a potential suspect/ban.

Xurkitree

61% of respondents answered 6 or higher on Xurkitree, showing favorability towards a potential suspect/ban. However, Xurkitree seems to be a bit more polarizing, with many on the DNB side having stronger preferences towards keeping it in RU.

Reuniclus

Roughly 75% of respondents answered 6 or higher on Reuniclus, showing an overwhelming majority that is in favor of some sort of tiering action on Reuniclus.

Thanks to everyone for participating in the survey. Expect an update from the council on some sort of tiering decision in the near future.
 

EviGaro

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
RU Leader
Happy Holidays, for you we have a new survey! Following most of RU snake and the end of this year's Circuit, we've come at a consensus on looking over three mons that have shown themselves to be dominant in Necrozma, Togekiss and Obstagoon. More and more Necrozma setup sets have had strong showings recently, beating the most clearcut counterplay with relative ease, Togekiss's scarf set has given another dimension to a threat that was always up there in the tier and Obstagoon simply found itself to be the most threatening breaker with its standard set. Thus we want your thoughts on this and a few other things to finish up the year!
 

EviGaro

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
RU Leader
So here are the results for this survey:

- On enjoyment and the competitive aspect of the metagame, results are staying the course, with strong majority in the 7 to 9 bracket. rip to the person voting 1 in both though
- Necrozma gets the strongest support for a potential suspect here, as Togekiss and Obstagoon find a majority in the 1-2 categories, whereas Necrozma finds half the voters in the 4-5. If people want to react to this with posting, that's always encouraged, but it's pretty clear from this what people wanted monitored.
- From the other options, well first someone told me hi so oi mncmt two people voted Acupressure, so I assume gobo Drapion lives on? Interesting one at any rate, idt it's ever been considered much so why would be appreciated! People talked a bit about Reuniclus, which fair but it was also the last suspect in a meta that if anything seemed to have moved a bit away from it in recent displays, but it was so close that I understand it being a case to reevaluate. Two people mentioned Sharpedo (so true besties) and I've seen some Suicune which, fair, because it got some silly performances recently but hard to say if it's just because it was considered bad for so long that people just kinda blanked or it's really that oppressive. Most mentioned though I believe was Xurkitree, but honestly the rationale for leaving it out is that it never really got the support needed for immediate action and that never quite seemed to change. Furthermore, in terms of actual results it might be as its lowest since its arrival. Again though, certainly understandable, and alongside Reuniclus it was a tossup to include it as a regular option
- Not much change was suggested for the circuit tour, well one person said RULT SUCKS but someone also said RULT was great so :blobshrug:One thing that was mentioned though is a potential update to the points system for Circuit. That seems likely to happen and if so will be announced with the rest of the 2022 circuit!
(oh yea, if Snake comes back it's seven weeks also ROFL)
 

EviGaro

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
RU Leader
Hlelo, survey! 2022 was very stable in terms of tiering (not in tiering leadership ROFL) but with the tier winding down we thought it was a good idea to do a final one, available here. There really was consensus on one thing being surveyd in Reuniclus, but other options are available to everyone if you think something is more pressing than we do. Also the long promised question about Talonflame in SM RU is here, as well as general questions about the state of the tier playing wise and what should be done moving forward with the 2023 circuit, which of course is gonna be impacted by the new generation.
 

EviGaro

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
RU Leader
Written by Yourwelcomethanku kek, send likes to any post of his

Hello, survey results time. It seems people are happy or content with the current metagame given the generally high scores of enjoyability and competitiveness with both having most responses as an 8 or higher and few lower, and most of those lower responses only slightly so, at 7. Reuniclus and Togekiss were asked about in the survey. Only one person voted above a 4 for Togekiss with most responces being below even a three. Reuniclus is a little more contentious with about 1/4 of votes being four or higher, however most votes are below even a 3 with plenty of 3s as well. It's safe to say in the general opinion of this survey that Togekiss is not seen as a problem which needs to be dealt with, while justifying action against Reuniclus is also hard given its lack of high numbered votes. Now the next and last query related to SS is perhaps the most nuanced. We asked what people thought of offense and that if there was a main culprit for offense being problematic what was it? Most people do not seem to think offense is a problem in the metagame currently with hardly any high numbered responses and the majority being 2 or lower. Mimikyu received the most support of only 15 votes as being the culprit if something was a problem. It's safe to say offense isn't seen a glaring issue. Though, it should be interesting to see how/if offense develops throughout SCL, sun, rain, and McMeghan's HOs have done well so far; it could be a future problem but is currently fine.

The SS metagame looks to be quite healthy with few people seeing anything as too overbearing and most see it pretty enjoyable and competitive.

The last part of the survey has to do with SM Talonflame. Last RUWC we had a suspect test slot that allowed Talonflame into the metagame. A lot of people, the majority of people that didn't abstain, voted in favour of having action taken to unban/look into Talonflame. Some said to just unban (34.6%) while others said to move to a qualified voters stage (23.1%). Outright opposition to Talonflame being unbanned was rarer with only about 11.5% of the vote. However, it's important to bare in mind the quantity size here is small only 18 people actually supported/were against this. Moreover, the tournament that Talonflame was in specifically allowed it, meaning the metagame was extra hostile than it otherwise may be to it. Rhyperior got significantly more usage in SM + Talonflame than it did without. With all this being said Talonflame is not going to just be unbanned, what's more likely is someone will open a thread in policy review for further discussion on it if anything at all.
 
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