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Theorymon Sessions
- Thread starter jake
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Thus, tentacool has literally no power, and scald burn doesn't work on entei so it's really not a good counter. Regirock with spD investment is IMO the perfect counter.
NU already has some mons that have zero perfect counters, like Charizard (Munchlax is screwed up by physical Zard), Musharna (plenty of checks though depending on what it is running), Jynx (Metang is screwed up by Trick and has to pick its poison as Jynx switches out unless Metang packs Pursuit), and Scolipede (Torkoal exists, but bar that... other things can't spin away the Spikes or get killed by coverage).
So in a nutshell, I don't think Entei dropping would be that bad, despite it possibly being hard to revenge-kill due to Extremespeed.
So in a nutshell, I don't think Entei dropping would be that bad, despite it possibly being hard to revenge-kill due to Extremespeed.
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4 SpAtk Entei (-SpAtk) Hidden Power Grass vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Regirock: 23.08% - 27.47% (4-5 hits to KO)
I don't really see how it's going to be a problem for Regirock to wall Entei. It would also probably be a lot easier to wear down Entei in NU than what it is in RU, where a couple of good spinners reside. What might push Entei overboard is its ability to revenge kill almost anything in the tier with Extremespeed. It would make offense a more difficult playstyle to utilize in NU. Would it be banned? Who knows; this is all just theorymon, of course. But it would definitely be a top threat for offensive teams and one for defensive teams to prepare for!
I don't really see how it's going to be a problem for Regirock to wall Entei. It would also probably be a lot easier to wear down Entei in NU than what it is in RU, where a couple of good spinners reside. What might push Entei overboard is its ability to revenge kill almost anything in the tier with Extremespeed. It would make offense a more difficult playstyle to utilize in NU. Would it be banned? Who knows; this is all just theorymon, of course. But it would definitely be a top threat for offensive teams and one for defensive teams to prepare for!
entei also has a lot of other options other than choice band such as calm mind or 3 attacks + status, both of which could potentially beat the counters to the choice band set while still being perfectly viable. it's versaitlity and power will probably make it too strong for nu.
Kay, revival.
What if Porygon2 and Dusclops were NU?
Porygon2 and Dusclops were stuck in NU in DPP, prior to the introduction of Eviolite in BW which pushed them into UU (and made them overthrow their evos in the usage stats). While this would never happen, given that 1)tier shifts are over 2)it would take two tier shifts for these two to reach NU, seeing how these two would fare in NU would be interesting. These two are pretty bulky Pokemon that along with Eviolite, have the bulk so that one does not simply OHKO them. I think these two would enforce a bulkier NU meta, and Porygon2 would probably make a great tank while Dusclops would probably be the best spinblocker and the ultimate Sawk counter. How would these two fare if they were in NU.
What if Porygon2 and Dusclops were NU?
Porygon2 and Dusclops were stuck in NU in DPP, prior to the introduction of Eviolite in BW which pushed them into UU (and made them overthrow their evos in the usage stats). While this would never happen, given that 1)tier shifts are over 2)it would take two tier shifts for these two to reach NU, seeing how these two would fare in NU would be interesting. These two are pretty bulky Pokemon that along with Eviolite, have the bulk so that one does not simply OHKO them. I think these two would enforce a bulkier NU meta, and Porygon2 would probably make a great tank while Dusclops would probably be the best spinblocker and the ultimate Sawk counter. How would these two fare if they were in NU.
You pose an interesting question that I will take a stab at. If these two pokemon were introduced into the NU metagame, I think counters would be figured out for these pokemon fairly quickly, mainly because of how Misdreavus and Lickilciky are are already so prominent and do similar things. Skuntank would become increasingly more popular as a way to deal with Dusclops and I would actually expect it to start running Lum Berry or Substitute as a way to get around Will-O-Wisps. The same thing would go for other pursuit trappers that can exist in the tier, but are far less common. As far as porygon2 is concerned, this would take a bit more thought as this pokemon can run very effective defensive sets through the use of trace and offensive sets through the use of download. While the offensive ones can poke holes in various NU pokemon, I do not think it is something that a bulky pokemon in the tier wouldn't already be able to handle. The defensive set could be very good at putting an end to pokemon such as Ludicolo and Shell smash users that the current NU pokemon are not able to handle as easily.Kay, revival.
What if Porygon2 and Dusclops were NU?
Porygon2 and Dusclops were stuck in NU in DPP, prior to the introduction of Eviolite in BW which pushed them into UU (and made them overthrow their evos in the usage stats). While this would never happen, given that 1)tier shifts are over 2)it would take two tier shifts for these two to reach NU, seeing how these two would fare in NU would be interesting. These two are pretty bulky Pokemon that along with Eviolite, have the bulk so that one does not simply OHKO them. I think these two would enforce a bulkier NU meta, and Porygon2 would probably make a great tank while Dusclops would probably be the best spinblocker and the ultimate Sawk counter. How would these two fare if they were in NU.
With these two, I would also expect to see an increase in usage of pokemon like Meganium and Leafeon that are defensive and pack status healing moves like Aromatherapy on defensive teams. With these two in combination with other defensive pokemon that can provide more support to them, it would be a very difficult group of walls to break down. This could also result in a rise in taunt users as a way to shut them down such as Mandibuzz or even Golbat.
Just my initial thoughts :)
Yeah, Porygon2 would be a major bitch to deal with lol. Its defenses are enormous with Eviolite, and its Special Attack and coverage are also both excellent. Dusclops would be a pain in the ass because of its sheer bulk, but it can't really do much in return to opposing teams. P2, however, would be absolutely dreadful to play again, and, in my opinion, it would be pretty much an auto-include on most teams. Pretty much no unboosted neutral hit will do enough to it to break through it. Basically the only things that OHKO it are CB Sawk and CB Primeape's Close Combats. o_o
dusclops won't be that good because it lacks offensive presence and speed unlike misdreavus and even on stall teams misdreavus is usually the better option simply because perish song is so useful.
porygon2 on the other hand will be a really useful tank for teams that need check stuff like ludicolo and stuff because it's so bulky. it will probably make balance better but it doesn't fit on stall because all it does is sit there and take hits and doesn't really support the team.
porygon2 on the other hand will be a really useful tank for teams that need check stuff like ludicolo and stuff because it's so bulky. it will probably make balance better but it doesn't fit on stall because all it does is sit there and take hits and doesn't really support the team.
It would also be able to spam a 140 power move with no stat reductions, with only a 10% chance to miss (Overheat), so basically it would fucking own the tier, and kill so much stuff with Overheat it wouldn't even be funny. Torkoal would defintiely become a top tier threat, and something for every team to prepare for.
Torkoal: The Volcarona of NU. I like it.
Although if it worked that way, the parallel ability Clear Body might change as well. Regirock isn't blazing fast to begin with, but not dropping speed as you Curse is nice, right? On the offensive side, a no-drawbacks Superpower would be pretty darn cool.
Although if it worked that way, the parallel ability Clear Body might change as well. Regirock isn't blazing fast to begin with, but not dropping speed as you Curse is nice, right? On the offensive side, a no-drawbacks Superpower would be pretty darn cool.
What if Drifblim got moves like Hurricane and Roost?
Roost may not fit flavor-wise, since Drifblim has no wings, but I think he deserves a recovery move. Hurricane goes to Flying types in general, and I bet Drifblim (flavor-wise) could blow out a bunch of air to use a move like Hurricane. I know using Drifblim can come across as a joke sometimes, but he honestly makes for a really good rain abuser because of his great HP and decent SpAtk backing moves like Thunder and the rare Weather Ball. Now, what if he got a great Flying STAB that let him drop the weaker Acrobatics? I was imagining something like this:
Drifblim @ Flying Gem/Life Orb/Damp Rock
4 HP | 252 SpAtk | 252 Speed
Timid Nature
Unburden
-Weather Ball
-Rain Dance/Roost (if he is using another teammate to induce)
-Thunder
-Hurricane
Hell, I bet he could even run a bulky set in the rain abusing his unique Flare Boost ability if he got Roost.
Drifblim @ Flame Orb/Leftovers (could switch in on predicted WoW)
252 HP | 252 SpA | 4 Spe
Modest Nature
Flare Boost
-Roost
-Shadow Ball
-Thunder(bolt)
-Hurricane
Just a thought, I personally find Drifblim really underrated, he's quite good.
Roost may not fit flavor-wise, since Drifblim has no wings, but I think he deserves a recovery move. Hurricane goes to Flying types in general, and I bet Drifblim (flavor-wise) could blow out a bunch of air to use a move like Hurricane. I know using Drifblim can come across as a joke sometimes, but he honestly makes for a really good rain abuser because of his great HP and decent SpAtk backing moves like Thunder and the rare Weather Ball. Now, what if he got a great Flying STAB that let him drop the weaker Acrobatics? I was imagining something like this:
Drifblim @ Flying Gem/Life Orb/Damp Rock
4 HP | 252 SpAtk | 252 Speed
Timid Nature
Unburden
-Weather Ball
-Rain Dance/Roost (if he is using another teammate to induce)
-Thunder
-Hurricane
Hell, I bet he could even run a bulky set in the rain abusing his unique Flare Boost ability if he got Roost.
Drifblim @ Flame Orb/Leftovers (could switch in on predicted WoW)
252 HP | 252 SpA | 4 Spe
Modest Nature
Flare Boost
-Roost
-Shadow Ball
-Thunder(bolt)
-Hurricane
Just a thought, I personally find Drifblim really underrated, he's quite good.
What if Porygon2 and Dusclops were NU?
Porygon2 would simply be used on every team to be completely honest, outside of stall. This thing can survive any unboosted hit outside of a Choice Banded Close Combat from Sawk and Primeape, which is really impressive. Add to that a base 105 Spa and you've got the best Tank in the tier. Sadly, even though it has a good support movepool with stuff like Trick Room, Porygon2 is still a sitting duck for stall teams, as it doesn't really offer that much compared to other good stall Pokemons like Audino, Zweilous, etc. Overall, I feel like Porygon2 would centralize the metagame around it due to its amazing bulk with Eviolite and good Spa.
As for Dusclops, it was cursed (pun intended) with its low base 40 HP. Dusclops's amazing base 130 Defense and Special Defense might appeal people at first sight, but with this HP stats it won't go far as it'll get 2HKO or 3HKO by most attacks, making it hard for Dusclops to switch in safely in this entry hazard's infested metagame. Don't forget Dusclops has to use the unreliable RestTalk to get any form of recovery (Pain Split is just not worth it personally). Dusclops also has no offensive presence, with its best options being Night Shade or Seismic Toss, making it set up fodders depending of the chosen move. Overall, it'll most probably end up in PU.
What if White Smoke also stopped self-induced stat drops?
The manly SMASHKOAL would simply be a massive threat:
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torkoal Overheat vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Alomomola: 359-424 (71.65 - 84.63%)
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torkoal Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 386-456 (94.14 - 111.21%)
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torkoal Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 328-386 (99.09 - 116.61%)
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torkoal Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 211-250 (61.33 - 72.67%)
Torkoal would be able to, at worst, 2HKO the entire metagame.
What if Drifblim got moves like Hurricane and Roost?
I could see Hurricane Drifblim be used on some Rain teams, as Hurricane coming from a base 90 SpA can hurt, nothing else to be completly honest.
Hurricane's accuracy is just too unreliable to my liking and Rain Dance or Roost have to fight with Destiny Bond, Calm Mind, Substitute, Thunderbolt (Ghost/Flying is wall by most Steel-type), and probably more that I'm missing.
Porygon2 would simply be used on every team to be completely honest, outside of stall. This thing can survive any unboosted hit outside of a Choice Banded Close Combat from Sawk and Primeape, which is really impressive. Add to that a base 105 Spa and you've got the best Tank in the tier. Sadly, even though it has a good support movepool with stuff like Trick Room, Porygon2 is still a sitting duck for stall teams, as it doesn't really offer that much compared to other good stall Pokemons like Audino, Zweilous, etc. Overall, I feel like Porygon2 would centralize the metagame around it due to its amazing bulk with Eviolite and good Spa.
As for Dusclops, it was cursed (pun intended) with its low base 40 HP. Dusclops's amazing base 130 Defense and Special Defense might appeal people at first sight, but with this HP stats it won't go far as it'll get 2HKO or 3HKO by most attacks, making it hard for Dusclops to switch in safely in this entry hazard's infested metagame. Don't forget Dusclops has to use the unreliable RestTalk to get any form of recovery (Pain Split is just not worth it personally). Dusclops also has no offensive presence, with its best options being Night Shade or Seismic Toss, making it set up fodders depending of the chosen move. Overall, it'll most probably end up in PU.
What if White Smoke also stopped self-induced stat drops?
The manly SMASHKOAL would simply be a massive threat:
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torkoal Overheat vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Alomomola: 359-424 (71.65 - 84.63%)
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torkoal Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 386-456 (94.14 - 111.21%)
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torkoal Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 328-386 (99.09 - 116.61%)
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torkoal Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 211-250 (61.33 - 72.67%)
Torkoal would be able to, at worst, 2HKO the entire metagame.
What if Drifblim got moves like Hurricane and Roost?
I could see Hurricane Drifblim be used on some Rain teams, as Hurricane coming from a base 90 SpA can hurt, nothing else to be completly honest.
Hurricane's accuracy is just too unreliable to my liking and Rain Dance or Roost have to fight with Destiny Bond, Calm Mind, Substitute, Thunderbolt (Ghost/Flying is wall by most Steel-type), and probably more that I'm missing.
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What if Ferroseed dropped to NU?
This is obviously pretty feasible; most NFEs are NU, and Ferroseed doesn't have particularly outstanding usage in RU. On one hand, it could be really good. Having a Spiker is almost always a good thing for any team that can fit one in, and Ferroseed is yet another viable Spiker for NU. This could be a great tool for stall teams, as it gives them a resistance to Normal, something no other viable defensive Spiker can do in NU. It also gives them a handful of other resistances, including ones to Grass, Electric, Water, Ghost, Psychic, and Dark, many of which are good offensive typings in NU, particularly Psychic. However, unlike other Spikers in the tier, it can't check Fighting-types at all, and unlike other Steel-types, it can't check Flying-types too well. Swellow won't really want to Brave Bird it though because of all the recoil, but even so!
And with no great spinners in NU, Ferroseed would just be stacking on more Spikers to worry about when teambuilding.
So what do you guys think? Would having another Spiker be super unhealthy for the meta, or would it be okay because like the other Spikers, Ferroseed has some extremely easily exploitable weaknesses? Would it be another boost for stall, or would stall teams usually prefer Garbodor or Roselia?
This is obviously pretty feasible; most NFEs are NU, and Ferroseed doesn't have particularly outstanding usage in RU. On one hand, it could be really good. Having a Spiker is almost always a good thing for any team that can fit one in, and Ferroseed is yet another viable Spiker for NU. This could be a great tool for stall teams, as it gives them a resistance to Normal, something no other viable defensive Spiker can do in NU. It also gives them a handful of other resistances, including ones to Grass, Electric, Water, Ghost, Psychic, and Dark, many of which are good offensive typings in NU, particularly Psychic. However, unlike other Spikers in the tier, it can't check Fighting-types at all, and unlike other Steel-types, it can't check Flying-types too well. Swellow won't really want to Brave Bird it though because of all the recoil, but even so!
And with no great spinners in NU, Ferroseed would just be stacking on more Spikers to worry about when teambuilding.
So what do you guys think? Would having another Spiker be super unhealthy for the meta, or would it be okay because like the other Spikers, Ferroseed has some extremely easily exploitable weaknesses? Would it be another boost for stall, or would stall teams usually prefer Garbodor or Roselia?
What if Ferroseed dropped to NU?
I think it would be very nice for NU teams, but Roselia and Garbodor each will have their advantages over Ferroseed. Garbodor can actually deal damage while setting up hazards, unlike Ferroseed, who has the somewhat situational Gyro Ball. Roselia falls in the same category while having a great ability and reliable recovery. Overall, I think Ferroseed would fit in just fine though.
I think it would be very nice for NU teams, but Roselia and Garbodor each will have their advantages over Ferroseed. Garbodor can actually deal damage while setting up hazards, unlike Ferroseed, who has the somewhat situational Gyro Ball. Roselia falls in the same category while having a great ability and reliable recovery. Overall, I think Ferroseed would fit in just fine though.
+2 252+ SpA Torkoal Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Magcargo: 85-101 (27.96 - 33.22%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
air balloon magcargo 4 president
It would still 2HKO.....
Overheat breaks balloon, Earth Power kills.
2 hits. 1 dead Magcargo.
What if Ferroseed dropped to NU?
I don't know what would exactly happen in all honesty. Ferroseed has good support moves like Leech Seed, Spikes, and Stealth Rock making it (I might be wrong) usable on stall as it has impressive bulk and has good ways to wear down opponents with Leech Seed and Toxic, but on the other hand Ferroseed can end up being set up fodder to scary Pokemon like SubBU Braviary. It has great resistances, but loses some important ones due to its Grass typing: Flying- and Ice-type resists. So you will end up having to use another Steel-type or simply use a Rock-type like Regirock, but teams often don't have the teamslots to afford running the two of them as they need the rest to cover everything else.
Add the fact Ferroseed can't set up Toxic Spikes or absorb them and you have a Pokemon which COULD do well on stall, but lacks the support other Pokemon brings to the table.
I actually think ferroseed could shine on balance teams as a Normal-type counter and a check for Rain, because it has some resistances which can cover a certain group of pokemon that nothing else could. For exemple: SD/Special Samurott and Musharna.
I don't really have something to say about Ferroseed on offense to be honest, as I think it would end up being a sitting duck or a set up fodder.
2- It can't switch in, Torkoal will probably simply spam Overheat most of the time. Only way Magcargo has to win is to switch on Shell Smash and crit with Hidden Power Rock.
3- You can always run the manly Hidden Power Water!
I don't know what would exactly happen in all honesty. Ferroseed has good support moves like Leech Seed, Spikes, and Stealth Rock making it (I might be wrong) usable on stall as it has impressive bulk and has good ways to wear down opponents with Leech Seed and Toxic, but on the other hand Ferroseed can end up being set up fodder to scary Pokemon like SubBU Braviary. It has great resistances, but loses some important ones due to its Grass typing: Flying- and Ice-type resists. So you will end up having to use another Steel-type or simply use a Rock-type like Regirock, but teams often don't have the teamslots to afford running the two of them as they need the rest to cover everything else.
Add the fact Ferroseed can't set up Toxic Spikes or absorb them and you have a Pokemon which COULD do well on stall, but lacks the support other Pokemon brings to the table.
I actually think ferroseed could shine on balance teams as a Normal-type counter and a check for Rain, because it has some resistances which can cover a certain group of pokemon that nothing else could. For exemple: SD/Special Samurott and Musharna.
I don't really have something to say about Ferroseed on offense to be honest, as I think it would end up being a sitting duck or a set up fodder.
1- Who runs that.
2- It can't switch in, Torkoal will probably simply spam Overheat most of the time. Only way Magcargo has to win is to switch on Shell Smash and crit with Hidden Power Rock.
3- You can always run the manly Hidden Power Water!
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So I was watching atomicllamas battle someone using Riolu (he used Skuntank) and it made me wonder for a second.
What if Riolu was Steel/Fighting?
On one hand it has more weaknesses to a common offensive type (Fighting/Ground/Fire) but Psychic is no longer a weakness, and it resists normal (which is p huge in NU). It can't be Toxic'd and Toxic Spikes won't affect it at all. With that in mind, what do you think the advantages/advantages of this would be? Discuss!
What if Riolu was Steel/Fighting?
On one hand it has more weaknesses to a common offensive type (Fighting/Ground/Fire) but Psychic is no longer a weakness, and it resists normal (which is p huge in NU). It can't be Toxic'd and Toxic Spikes won't affect it at all. With that in mind, what do you think the advantages/advantages of this would be? Discuss!
Annoyer
=)~
it would give it a lot more opportunities to use roar such as against musharna and jynx and makes it even more resilient against common priority such as kanga fake out and skuntank sucker
no longer being weak to uh flying types is nice i guess but there are some downsides to steel typing such as mach punch weakness and not able to roar on stuff like golem anymore
toxic immunity would make it nearly impossible to just stall it out and it would in general just do its job a lot better
most importantly, punchshroom would prob elope with it on a more consistent basis
no longer being weak to uh flying types is nice i guess but there are some downsides to steel typing such as mach punch weakness and not able to roar on stuff like golem anymore
toxic immunity would make it nearly impossible to just stall it out and it would in general just do its job a lot better
most importantly, punchshroom would prob elope with it on a more consistent basis
What if Riolu was Steel/Fighting?
Being able to now set up on stuff like Musharna, Jynx, Skuntank, Garbodor, Roselia, and more and having an immunity to Toxic Spikes/Toxic will simply make Riolu too easy to use. Riolu still has 40/40/40 bulk though, so it might only get a slight increase in usage.
Being able to now set up on stuff like Musharna, Jynx, Skuntank, Garbodor, Roselia, and more and having an immunity to Toxic Spikes/Toxic will simply make Riolu too easy to use. Riolu still has 40/40/40 bulk though, so it might only get a slight increase in usage.
10/10
I don't think Riolu will be able to set up easily on Psychic types like Jynx and Musharna, they still hit it with powerful neutral STAB's
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