All Gens The "What If" Thread V2 - Topic #11: Heavy Duty Boots in DPP

If the validate feature on PS! is anything to go by, wishport strategies would be dead in the water. Neither Clefable nor Chansey can utilize tp with wish, or their regular abilities for that matter. Clefable is stuck using Unaware for an ability and Moonlight as a recovery move, which really isn't worth it. Chansey I see being the main abuser of the move; giving up Natural Cure alongside the extra moveslot for Toxic/Twave sucks, and means it likely won't be used much on more defensive builds that wouldn't care much about the momentum anyways, but it would give a lot more validity to the "Chansey Offense" styles of teams. Having a stealth rock setter that acts as a blanket check to every special attacker in the game while having reliable recovery and the ability to preserve momentum sounds incredibly enticing. Of course the lack of leftovers and ability to cure off burns or poisons would mean it would have to give up momentum to heal more often than Clef does in SS, which keeps it in check, but as long as it can come in and completely invalidate an Ash-Greninja, or Tapu Koko, I doubt offense would really care. Slowbro is also a potential TP user but it really wants both of flamethrower and ice beam, which can make it awkward to fit into a moveset. Bro still has to compete with Pex too so it's not like Slowbro will become top 10 overnight.
Looking at the list p2 posted the only other thing I could think of was dual screens tp xatu ho since tp is a great way to potentially get some free turns to set up


Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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Kill it with fire. Teleport has had pretty much only negative implications in SS and I don’t see why it would be healthier in SM.


One Active Dawg
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Feel free to keep talking about this topic but think now is a good time to let everyone in on an upcoming event for what if.

As a way to thank everyone for making this thread a success, I am planning to run a series of showdown tournaments on the ruin of alphs room that revolves around various topics posted throughout the history of this thread. I would host one topic tour daily for a week with each day being different gens. Now with so many options to choose from how would I pick the one everyone would like to play? The solution is simple. I would have you all pick for me with a vote. Basically you would post on this thread with your choice of one topic per generation. You would list them down in gen order except for gen 7 since there is only one choice. So instead, in its place, you are allowed to pick a wildcard pick which could be any topic from any generation. You could even pick a topic you voted for previously on this slot.

I would just want to ask that you do not vote for topics that could not be done without a new mod such as changed mechanics in moves or abilities. The voting date will be set for Friday, June 19, 2020. You guys would be given a few days to make your choice before voting stops. At this time, there will also be a pause on topics. More details about the tours themselves will be revealed once voting is complete.


One Active Dawg
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Alright, guys as of this post you are free to vote for your favorite topics that you want to see played. You have the option of picking almost anything from this thread and the previous thread. There are a few restrictions, however. Below, I will list all the topics you are allowed to vote for...although if you feel strongly about any of the barred topics, please let me know and maybe something can be arranged.

Now for the format, please vote on this thread using this format

RBY choice
GSC choice
ADV choice
DPP choice
BW choice
Any choice 1
Any choice 2

We are going to stick with gens 1-5 for this due to the low number of choices for gen 6 and 7. The voting stage will be up until 11:59 pm on June 21, 2020, GMT -4. Without further ado, vote away!


One Active Dawg
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Alright two things. Since Id like to see this actually happen, I will extend the deadline until Thursday June 25th. If I dont get at least a few more votes, I will have to cancel the tour and try again in the future. If possible, try making a vote for the "any choice" option even if you dont vote for all the other slots.

And Questions Frog I appreciate the enthusiasm but If you or anyone have suggestions for a topic, you could always pm me and I may make it a future topic. Please dont make your own posts like that here.


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Topic #41 : Jellicent in RBY
Topic #27 : DPP Evos in GSC
Topic #43 : Abomasnow in ADV
Topic #24 : No Choice Items in DPP
Topic #5: Toxapex Line in BW

Topic #57 : Alola Forms in RBY
Topic #58 : Choice Band in GSC

Generally more interested in playing with mons added over moves added/mechs changed :)
DPP as the exception bc I'm not that interested in Talonflame and think Hydrei would be broken af.


Morse code, if I'm talking I'm clicking
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Topic #41: Jellicent in RBY
Topic #27: DPP Evos in GSC
Topic #28: Choice Scarf in ADV
Topic #29: Full Weather in DPP
Topic #25: Dream Abilities in BW
Topic #4: Hydreigon in DPP
Topic #64: Torterra and Abomasnow in RBY


One Active Dawg
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Alright the voting stage is done and I'll go ahead and make my vote.

heal bell in rby
dpp evos in gsc
choice scarf in adv
hydreigon in dpp
goodra in bw
alola forms in rby
abomasnow in adv

As for what you guys voted for, here are the final results!

Topic #11 : Heal Bell in RBY - 4

Topic #58 : Choice Band in GSC - 4

Topic #28 : Choice Scarf in ADV - 5

Topic #29 : Full Weather in DPP - 3

Topic #45 : Goodra in BW - 2

Topic #27 : DPP Evos in GSC - 3

Topic #43 : Abomasnow in ADV - 3

Topic #4 : Hydreigon in DPP - 3

Topic #4: No Stealth Rock in DPP - 2

Topic #23: Locked Moves in ADV - 2

Topic #64: Torterra and Abomasnow in RBY - 2

Topic #25: Dream Abilities in BW - 2

Topic #41: Jellicent in RBY - 2

Topic #57: Alola Forms in RBY - 2

Topic #13: U-Turn in ADV - 1

Topic# 22: Calm Mind in GSC - 1

Topic# 37: No NYPC moves in GSC - 1

Topic #9: Team Preview in DPP - 1

Topic #59: Rotom in ADV – 1

Topic #24: No Choice Items in DPP - 1

Topic #5: Toxapex Line in BW - 1

Since there is a tie between Hydreigon in DPP and Abomasnow in ADV, I decided to have a bonus 8th tournament! As far as how these tournaments work, they will be live tours on the PS main server over in the Ruins of Alph room. The schedule will follow the tour night format. A tour will be run 3 times a day in between each tour night series. We will run 1 topic per day in this manner for a total of 8 days. The schedule will follow this...

based on eastern time gmt -4/-5AsiaEuroPanAM

We will try to start the first tour on Monday, July 6th, 2020. Starting with the winning RBY topic. Once it starts, replays and winners will be recorded and posted on the reserved post below the OP. Feel free to start preparing your teams in advance and hope you are all as excited about this as I am!
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so RBY Heal Bell tourney ended and it was really fun, thanks for hosting, i'd like to talk about the things i've been using during it

first of all, i've used Lapras as my Heal Bell, mainly because fitting it on Chansey is kind of awkward you already want to run so many moves, you can't really afford adding one more to the list, but Lapras has some really nice traits as a Beller, it can't be frozen, so you won't have to worry about letting your opponent a free turn to click an Ice move, while it has some nice targets against which it can heal his team mates like Tauros, Snorlax, Cloyster, Tbolt-less Starmie, Rhydon

Ability: none
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Body Slam
- Heal Bell

Exeggutor has been incredible for me, i've used a Rest set, alongside Heal Bell, it makes the hard Exeggutor T1 against Alakazam road way less awkward with paralysis/miss ect, it also mean Body Slam paralysis when coming on Rhydon are way less deadly, it can be played way more agressively like if you need to force out ReflectLax or Chansey, it wont mind taking a hit that much as it can Rest off the damages taken after landing the sleep or against Rhydon/Pin Missile-less Jolteon/Gengar/Alakazam/Blizzard-less Starmie/Slowbro

Ability: none
- Sleep Powder
- Psychic
- Explosion
- Rest

i actually never uses Rest Jolteon because i can't play it properly and it end up being a dead-weight after clicking Rest on my hands way too much for my liking, but Heal Bell has been a given for it, being able to trade a Twave with Alakazam, taking a hit against Tauros to trade a Twave, and then coming in on Chansey/Zapdos/Jolteon/Starmie, Rest-off its damage/paralysis and be able to come back fresh after Heal Bell has been incredible, his offensive presence increased a ton, while being better defensively

Ability: none
- Thunderbolt
- Double Kick
- Rest
- Thunder Wave

i'd say clicking Heal Bell has been awkward sometime, especially in Jynx match up since it can come in on something that it actually defeat or force out to get a chance to freeze the sleep absorber before landing its Lovely Kiss meaning you'll potentally be under a ton of pressure until you finally get to click Heal Bell again

here's the team i used during the tourney:


Bert Stare
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very fun games. the perma drizzle and sun was fun for gen 4. I have ideas but my gen 4(make the game great again) bias will show


One Active Dawg
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Hey everyone. Just wanted to make a post thanking everyone who participated in What If Week. Outside of a few hiccups, it was a big success with a good showing in every tournament! I want to specifically thank dogecreamgaming (Links), mc56556, SBPC, and Waves for helping me host all these tournaments. I also want to thank Kris for helping me make these tournaments possible by providing working tournament commands. I want to give one more round of thanks to the RoA staff for supporting this idea and allowing it to happen in the first place.

It was enjoyable to see how these metas would have played out if these what-if scenarios were a reality. Many people had come up with interesting teams involving each of these scenarios but here are my thoughts of each day.

Heal Bell RBY

Heal Bell as a move here seems really strong on paper since allows you to be more comfortable with taking on a sleep powder or freeze. It is usable by a decent amount of OU viable Pokemon such as Chansey, Jolteon, Lapras, Articuno, and more. In practice however, Chansey did not really like this move. She struggles to find room in her sets for it and if she freezes the move is useless. So Articuno and Lapras became the best users of the move since they both can afford to give up a move slot for it and could not be frozen. This would give these "filler" Pokemon a much more relevant role in RBY OU and could open the door to more Pokemon running rest sets with heal bell support. Unfortunately, we did not get to see this in action for as much as I'd like. You probably noticed that when I said that there were hiccups, I was referring to the command issues allowing things like Terrakoin and Mega Medicham wrecking everything. There was also the server restart causing the late tour to be canceled. But for what was seen, it definitely has potential.

Congrats to Abyssal Ruins for winning this tour!

Choice Band/Calm Mind GSC

Choice Band GSC was supposed to be the scenario of choice for this day but unfortunately, the item was bugged in a way where it would lock the Pokemon into a move but would not provide an attack boost. This led to a lot of very sad Machamps. So to remedy this, I went with the next best choice the community voted for which was Calm Mind and this one was actually more interesting! There was a ton of variety of what you could do with the move due to the large number of Pokemon that learns it. In this scenario, Alakazam, Stantler, Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Pikachu, Raichu. Clefable, Ninetales, Golduck, Slowbro, Slowking, Hypno, Blissey, Mr. Mime, Jynx, Noctowl, Xatu, Sudowoodo, Espeon, Murkrow, Girafarig, Dunsparce, Sneasel, Corsola all learn calm mind here. Of the bunch, Blissey, Suicune, and Raikou stood out as the big winners. What was surprising to me was that this meta turns out to be pretty balanced. There are a good number of phasers already in the tier such as Zapdos and other Suicune that could keep them at bay. Also, the stat boost limit only allows their stats to go so high so nothing could get too crazy as far as stats go. And finally, everything is naturally bulky so they are likely to take a hit and respond. For example, +6 Suicune cannot 2hko Blissey with surf. This day had to be one of my favorites to watch.

Congrats to Djokra, Dinosaur_Ryusaki, and Lynch mi A2 for their wins here!

Choice Scarf ADV

I thought that this one had a ton of potential when I started the tournament. There are many Pokemon that would make great use of a Choice Scarf here. Modest Starmie, Metagross, and Tyranitar just to name a few would love the addition of this item with the only loser being Dugtrio being unable to reliably trap many Pokemon anymore. While it was not used a ton in the tournament when it was used to great effect against unexpecting teams. Very interested to see how such a meta would develop if it was done again.

Congrats to pokology, blub234, and Lynch mi A2 for winning here!

Full Weather DPP

Now this one was a ton of fun to run. When starting this tournament, I expected that this would just be BW with less Pokemon and Team Preview. While this is true, (somebody literally played with a bw1 sun team and did well with it!) teams seem to be more balanced as far as power levels go. Every weather had a chance to shine at some point of the tournament and I could not help but record multiple battles and run an additional bonus tournament back to back. It was that enjoyable! Swift Swim + Drizzle was banned of course due to it ridiculous power but Chlorophyll + Drought was allowed. This also had to be one of my favorite days of the week.

Congrats to DnB, kland, MrKattzy, and Scimjara for winning!

Goodra BW

Now if I had to pick one scenario that had a disappointing showing, it would be this one. Everyone was expecting Goodra to be a monster to deal with. Hydration + Rest on a special tank of a Pokemon sounds like a beast on paper. But in practice, its weaker defense stat made it easy pickings for the common DragMag team. It also took a little too much against certain Specs attackers since Latios can still Ohko with Draco Meteor. Sap Sipper would have been a great ability on it pre-sleep ban but at this point, it would not be that great. It is nice for catching Ferrothorn as it uses Leech Seed though to get a boost to Dragon Tail. It is not a weak Pokemon. It's just not what everyone hoped for it to be.

Congrats to Scimjara, Lillia2.0, and Aballam for their wins here!


This was another extremely fun tournament to play. There was a good amount of power-creep due to all the evolutions gaining boosts across the board. Some Pokemon such as Rhydon and Misdreavus were already viable in OU so imagine how the meta would if you throw in their evolutions! We had some powerhouses here. Mamoswine was really strong and just fast enough to still outspeed Snorlax after using Curse while having a strong enough sp atk to run Ice Beam. Rhyperior is just a strictly better version of Rhydon that could now use Fire Blast effectively if it chooses to do so. Electivire and Magmortar can give Machamp a run for its money as mix mons with Cross Chop and Meditate. Mismagius is able to shrug off pursuit much better than Misdreavus ever could. Glaceon is a literal nuke with access to the strongest Ice Beam in the game. And that is only naming a few! Snorlax is still probably the best Pokemon in the format but it no longer the undisputed king once was here. A ton of fun to be had here.

Congrats to Louna, kael, and Earthworm for their wins!

Abomasnow ADV

Feel like I'm starting to repeat myself when I am saying that this one is yet again another fantastic tournament to play. I am already a big fan of Hail so seeing it perform in a format not plagued by Stealth Rocks or super-powerful attacks is very nice to see. Abomasnow would actually be amazing in a pre-split format due to it only having one special weakness to fire and some relevant special resistances to water, grass, and electric. Combined with the fact that hail hurts nearly every pokemon that threatens Abomasnow (not to mention it completely neuters any rain team) would make him a mainstay in the format if he existed even if hail provides no accuracy boost to Blizzard. This allows it to be an extremely good user of leech seed since it does not fear the electric + ice movesets carried by many Pokemon. Hail teams held their own against the sand teams that normally dominate the format. Definitely something I'd like to play again.

Congrats to mc56556, Justamente, and Lynch mi A2 on their wins this tour!

Hydreigon DPP

Same verse, same as the first. This was also a very cool meta to have a chance of playing. Unlike its dragon cousin Goodra, Hydreigon was a Pokemon that was expected to do quite well here and it did not disappoint. It is a terror to face if you are running a slower team with its excellent coverage options, Roost and Taunt. However, since many of the players knew this was the case, Hydreigon had to face down faster teams which gave it some trouble. It still held its own in this tournament and I would love to see it again in action in the future!

Congrats to DNNP, kael, and Trade for their wins here!

Once again, thank you to everyone who participated in this event. The other hosts and I had a blast running these tours for everyone. Since this was a success, the possibility of running this again in the future is there so stay tuned! In the meantime, What if will return to posting new topics starting on Monday. If you have any ideas for future topics, feel free to PM me! I may use them here if it is interesting enough.


One Active Dawg
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Sorry for the slight delay but think its finally time to get this moving again. Let's start it off with something interesting. What if Slaking and Regice were in RBY?

So in RBY, there is something known as the big 5. Most of the big 5 are where they are because of their unrivaled speed, power, and overall utility. Would these Pokemon be toppled by the likes of Regice and a meta where no abilities and Amnesia is a thing..... Of course, this would be absolutely busted and would be booted up to Ubers no questions asked! So in that case, the real question is, what if Regice and Slaking existed in the Ubers environment along with Mew and Mewtwo? Would they be able to hold their own or will they steal the crown from Mewtwo as the king of RBY? They both have access to all moves they currently know that are legal in RBY. Regice will also have a Special stat of 200 while Slaking will have one of 65 so have at it.
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Ok, well Slaking is just hilariously good. Definitely better than Mewtwo. Basically your strategy in ubers is pretty much going to have to be thunderwave everything, because Slaking is going to 2hko everything with slash anyway.

I think you go with Body Slam, Slash, Earthquake, Blizzard.

It makes Snorlax pretty hard to use since it 5hkoes with body slam and gets 2hkoed back. I guess you have to just SD against it, but a slam + self destruct doesnt even KO. Slaking could have reflect over Body Slam to cover that. I guess also counter would be a sensible option on Lax and Slaking.

You could use Gengar to bait a quake to allow Zapdos to come in to thunderwave it? But Gengar and Zapdos against Regice seems like a bad plan.

If Regice has 200 special then it can 3hko Chansey with Blizzard, which is also gonna be pretty amazing, but it's still massively outclassed by Slaking. Also if Chan tries to switch into Regice then its trivial to force a softboiled which means Slaking can come in and slash something. Mew is straight up 2hkoed, so its really only Mewtwo and Chan that could switch in. Mewtwo cant really afford to get paralysed either.

I think for Regice you just go Twave, Blizzard, Tbolt, Amnesia. No point trying to rest if Slaking is gonna come in.

So I dont think you're gonna switch much. I think basically Ubers becomes HO and it comes down to speed ties. Any time you faint if you've damaged the opposing pokemon, then Slaking claims a KO.

So I think a team might look something like:
Double powder Eggy
Twave + Explosion Mew
Cleaner Mewtwo
Support Chansey (some combination of sing, thunderwave, counter, seismic toss, softboiled)

I think we could get some kind of balance out of a metagame with Regice. Especially if it had 100 base special instead of 200. For Slaking, I think if it didnt have slash it could be a great addition to ubers. A Body Slam + Hyperbeam can KO Mewtwo. But with Slash, I cant see the metagame being anything other than just trading and speed ties.


One Active Dawg
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That one post pretty much sums it up. Super informative! But it is time to move on to our next topic of What If. This time we will be doing what if Rest doesnt exist in GSC?

So the move rest is extremely good in this generation because of how it works with sleep talk. If sleep talk chooses rest, it would reset rest and heal the pokemon back to full health allowing Pokemon to become extremely good at sponging hits. But what if Rest was removed from the game? Would games become more offensive or defensive as a result? Would new threats rise while old ones fall? Would Snorlax still be the king of the format? You tell me!


uhhhh how often am i supposed to pray again
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Damn. Suddenly things that are usually hard to kill are put on a timer - Zapdos, and especially Raikou (which isn't immune to spikes) see less usage. Thunder becomes less viable: rolling the dice for a chance of hitting breakpoints no longer matters if your target can't rest off the damage, and if you don't have rest you can't afford to miss as often.

Without rest a few things might as well opt for Toxic, which now can't be rested off, and speeds up the game massively by flipping leftovers healing on its head.

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