-The Unreleased DW Pokemon-

Contrary Serperior is almost like GameFreak are saying "Yeah, so Shaymin-S was pretty broken. How's this for a compromise?"
 
The problem with Serperior, that has been stated time, and time, and time again - it is, at base, weaker then piss.



It can't even OHKO, at +0, the frailest pokemon in OU.

I mean, we could go on for days about why Serperior sucks, but that's all you really need to know.

And even fully set up, should you somehow manage to get to +6...


Again, weak as hell. It can't even guaranteed OHKO sub kyurem-b without rocks, and that's only a resist.

And to avoid being murdered by any choice user, it needs to have a choice scarf, which means that it's not getting past defensive titans like Ferrothorn or Heatran (The later of which is a complete, 100% hard stop anyway)...

so yeah it's just piss. Completely useless without a boost, too slow to risk not running a choice scarf, resists no priority (and is weak to one of it), half of OU resists grass, we could go on for days about the numerous ways in which Serperior is awful.
First off, you're running and offensive set without Life Orb... Why? It is far from murdered by scarf users, and you could say any attacking pokemon that isn't scarfed is afraid of scarf users, that's why scarf users are there, to revenge and stop sweeps.

Secondly, Alakazam isn't the frailest in OU when it comes to special attacks, both Cloyster and Breloom are weaker in that regard (off the top of my head).

Thirdly, why are you spamming Leaf storm against Kyurem-B at anything? First off that set you listed with the 56 hp is the sub set, Kyurem-B comes in an takes 27.9 - 32.83% from a LO leaf storm (again, scarf is pointless and a bad set to run), then Kyurem-B can't outspeed and takes 95.55 - 113.08% from a +2 LO dragon pulse. Your example is plain terrible, honestly, running a scarf is a bad idea on any set up sweeper, including this one that uses an attacking move to boost. Kyurem-B with a scarf is a threat, but he still wouldn't want to take an unboosted dragon pulse on the switch (since that's still 50% of his HP gone). That's more the sheer power of Kyurem-B than anything else.

Lastly, onto priority, if a pokemon is either going to switch into Superior or come in after a revenge kill, Serperior will in all likelihood be at +2 after using leaf storm. A Bullet Punch from a CB scizor does 57.87 - 68.15%, while he is in return, OHKO from +2 HP fire, Breloom has the exact same problem. Dragonite does 52.39 - 61.98% with extreme speed, while dying to a +2 dragon pulse unless he has multiscale still active (which limits him to a revenger killer), and anything that would even use Ice shard can't OHKO with it and is destroyed by even an unboosted leaf storm. Priority pokemon make great revenge killers, but are not counters in the slightest.

Again, for the most part, if you manage to get Serperior in relatively safely, he can really hurt teams badly, and there is not a lot that can switch in, take it, and KO back, or even come in after a revenge kill and KO. Leaf storm contrary makes Serperior so much more than just a set up sweeper with his bulk and speed, along with the ease of setting up, most stuff that would normally outspeed and massively threaten Serperior when he would normally be spending a turn using a normal set up move (nasty plot), either can't KO back, or can't switch in on a leaf storm.

I'm going to say this again, he's not unstoppable, but he's a massive threat. The thing that nobody has mentioned is that weather really ruins his day, rain making his HP fire far less useful, stopping certain KO's, while sun makes himself a lot more afraid of fire moves on opposing mons.
 

nyttyn

From Now On, We'll...
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
First off, you're running and offensive set without Life Orb... Why? It is far from murdered by scarf users, and you could say any attacking pokemon that isn't scarfed is afraid of scarf users, that's why scarf users are there, to revenge and stop sweeps.
Because with Life Orb, you're looking at taking an additional 10% damage minimum before you start becoming remotely useful, you're still at risk of being OHKO'd by almost every single scarf user, even before LO drops, and with something that wants to spam the same move two to three times to actually start getting into the game, 20-30% HP is a huge deal.

Secondly, Alakazam isn't the frailest in OU when it comes to special attacks, both Cloyster and Breloom are weaker in that regard (off the top of my head).
True, but Breloom resists and Cloyster is weak to it anyway so I used Alakazam.
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Thirdly, why are you spamming Leaf storm against Kyurem-B at anything? First off that set you listed with the 56 hp is the sub set, Kyurem-B comes in an takes 27.9 - 32.83% from a LO leaf storm (again, scarf is pointless and a bad set to run), then Kyurem-B can't outspeed and takes 95.55 - 113.08% from a +2 LO dragon pulse. Your example is plain terrible, honestly, running a scarf is a bad idea on any set up sweeper, including this one that uses an attacking move to boost. Kyurem-B with a scarf is a threat, but he still wouldn't want to take an unboosted dragon pulse on the switch (since that's still 50% of his HP gone). That's more the sheer power of Kyurem-B than anything else.
1. If they're swapping in Kyurem-B, they're either retarded or they already scouted out Serperior's LO, in which case it's a scarf variant that will OHKO with scarf supar speed.
252 Atk Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 250-295 (85.61 - 101.02%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
2. Of course he wouldn't but +0 DPulse is still hitting for piss.
252 SpA Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 150-178 (38.36 - 45.52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Absolutely abysmal.
Lastly, onto priority, if a pokemon is either going to switch into Superior or come in after a revenge kill, Serperior will in all likelihood be at +2 after using leaf storm. A Bullet Punch from a CB scizor does 57.87 - 68.15%, while he is in return, OHKO from +2 HP fire, Breloom has the exact same problem. Dragonite does 52.39 - 61.98% with extreme speed, while dying to a +2 dragon pulse unless he has multiscale still active (which limits him to a revenger killer), and anything that would even use Ice shard can't OHKO with it and is destroyed by even an unboosted leaf storm. Priority pokemon make great revenge killers, but are not counters in the slightest.
For Serperior to be at +2 and for Scizor to come in to revenge, it will have most likely taken some residue damage. That, combined with the LO damage and possible Rocks/Weather/Spikes damage means Serperior's shit is sunk pretty easily by revenge.
Again, for the most part, if you manage to get Serperior in relatively safely, he can really hurt teams badly, and there is not a lot that can switch in, take it, and KO back, or even come in after a revenge kill and KO. Leaf storm contrary makes Serperior so much more than just a set up sweeper with his bulk and speed, along with the ease of setting up, most stuff that would normally outspeed and massively threaten Serperior when he would normally be spending a turn using a normal set up move (nasty plot), either can't KO back, or can't switch in on a leaf storm.

I'm going to say this again, he's not unstoppable, but he's a massive threat. The thing that nobody has mentioned is that weather really ruins his day, rain making his HP fire far less useful, stopping certain KO's, while sun makes himself a lot more afraid of fire moves on opposing mons.
Key word: manage. Serperior demands a turn to get in safely, then a turn to set up Leaf Storm which will also cost it 10% of its HP if you're running LO, then finally it can start firing off its +2 attacks (which are still extremely unimpressive, coming at a effective base 498 spatk, a number that isn't exactly impressive after all the pain it has to go through to get it), and only once it reaches +4 (after having incurred 20% LO damage and any potential hazards, weather, or status) can it be considered very threatening. You have to manage all of this with a Grass type (not the best defensive typing in the world) which has 75/95/95 base defensive stats, of which you can't afford to put enough investment in to actually matter.

For all of this, your most powerful option is still the grass STAB (and your other two options are base 70 and base 90 non-stab'd BP, one of which gets cut in half by the rain), a offensive type that is supremely lacking in OU, with a base speed that leaves it open to nearly every common choice Scarfer (and even four non-scarfed pokemon that enjoy common usage in OU), resistance to absolutely no priority, and you're left with a pokemon who is completely useless outside of attacking, and even then nearly completely useless before getting to +2. And to compound matters, once it's at +2, it's actually no better then a lot of the supermassive, superfast attackers who are throwing around powerful attacks with no investment or no setup with far superior attacking types, requiring you to be at +4 before you notice any considerable gains.

seriously if you want a superpowerful attacker just use Thundurus-T, or Keldeo, or any other of the plethora monster-attackers you have open to you in BW2. Serperior basically requires you to bend over ass-backwards for something that honestly isn't that impressive without excessive setup oppertunity, and even then is open to every single Priority revenger in the game, as well as almost every Choice Scarfer should it choose to use a Life Orb.
 
Because with Life Orb, you're looking at taking an additional 10% damage minimum before you start becoming remotely useful, you're still at risk of being OHKO'd by almost every single scarf user, even before LO drops, and with something that wants to spam the same move two to three times to actually start getting into the game, 20-30% HP is a huge deal.



True, but Breloom resists and Cloyster is weak to it anyway so I used Alakazam.


1. If they're swapping in Kyurem-B, they're either retarded or they already scouted out Serperior's LO, in which case it's a scarf variant that will OHKO with scarf supar speed.

2. Of course he wouldn't but +0 DPulse is still hitting for piss.

Absolutely abysmal.


For Serperior to be at +2 and for Scizor to come in to revenge, it will have most likely taken some residue damage. That, combined with the LO damage and possible Rocks/Weather/Spikes damage means Serperior's shit is sunk pretty easily by revenge.

Key word: manage. Serperior demands a turn to get in safely, then a turn to set up Leaf Storm which will also cost it 10% of its HP if you're running LO, then finally it can start firing off its +2 attacks (which are still extremely unimpressive, coming at a effective base 498 spatk, a number that isn't exactly impressive after all the pain it has to go through to get it), and only once it reaches +4 (after having incurred 20% LO damage and any potential hazards, weather, or status) can it be considered very threatening. You have to manage all of this with a Grass type (not the best defensive typing in the world) which has 75/95/95 base defensive stats, of which you can't afford to put enough investment in to actually matter.

For all of this, your most powerful option is still the grass STAB (and your other two options are base 70 and base 90 non-stab'd BP, one of which gets cut in half by the rain), a offensive type that is supremely lacking in OU, with a base speed that leaves it open to nearly every common choice Scarfer (and even four non-scarfed pokemon that enjoy common usage in OU), resistance to absolutely no priority, and you're left with a pokemon who is completely useless outside of attacking, and even then nearly completely useless before getting to +2. And to compound matters, once it's at +2, it's actually no better then a lot of the supermassive, superfast attackers who are throwing around powerful attacks with no investment or no setup with far superior attacking types, requiring you to be at +4 before you notice any considerable gains.

seriously if you want a superpowerful attacker just use Thundurus-T, or Keldeo, or any other of the plethora monster-attackers you have open to you in BW2. Serperior basically requires you to bend over ass-backwards for something that honestly isn't that impressive without excessive setup oppertunity, and even then is open to every single Priority revenger in the game, as well as almost every Choice Scarfer should it choose to use a Life Orb.
Serperior doesn't need 2-3 times to start getting into the game, he needs to use it once, and 10% to deal a decent chunk of damage and set up at the same time is easily worth it. Also, in your calculations you excluded life orb yet again. The life orb set allows it to be very likely to 2 hit KO after a boost, and you still haven't explained how you'd get Kyruem B in there without him being at +2? Either a switch in or a revenge kill doesn't matter, Serperior will likely be at +2. Otherwise, congratulations, you found one scarf user that can possibly counter it, the one user with insane stats all around, good job. The only other things that really flat out counter it are Heatran and Volcarona without rocks.

Revenge is still far from a counter, and you've yet to acknowledge that. Onto Scizor, after Rocks and LO damage, Serperior is still sitting at 77.5%, while Scizor can hit back for 57.87 - 68.15%. Even if Serperior took two sets of LO damage, he still sits at 67.5%, just enough for it to have the smallest chance to KO, all while being KO'd in return if it doesn't get that itty bitty KO chance. After all that, you may be able to stunk him, but he's already taken out some vital team members.

You also talk about its 498 special attack being unimpressive, Bulky Gyarados after one DD has 522 attack and 396 speed, still hurt by scarf users, still only slightly stronger attack, with similar defences. but Serperior is firing off a BP 140 attack, while having much other attacking options better than bounce, it also starts off hitting with a base 140 attack while setting up. Again with the 498, you're ignoring the wonders of LO, a far superior set, despite talking about it taking 10% LO recoil, with LO, it's much closer to 647 (not sure the exact way to work out it out, but LO after +2 takes it to around 2.6, since the 1.3 is added after boosts). Keldeo with choice specs is only hitting for 535 base sp.attack, all while being locked into one move, with a lower base speed.

You keep saying how Serperior sucks, all while reverting back to the choice scarf set. All you've managed to do is show that the choice scarf set is a bad idea, and shouldn't be ran, but haven't at all showed how a LO set is bad, just that is can be possibly revenge killed (oh no, because all the other pokemon never get revenge killed, not at all). If you can bring in Serperior to finish something off, you've got a sweep started that is extremely hard to stop without losing a member or two from your team (excluding the pokemon that was finished off), if not your whole team. Serperior isn't unstoppable, it's not going to come in at any point and instantly set up and destroy teams, no pokemon not banned to ubers can effortlessly come in and set up, without having to have possible counters taken out, but that is the whole point of sweepers, to either do some serious damage before going out, or to be able to tear teams apart late game after possible counters are removed.

I feel as if you're arguing about how it won't be unstoppable, but not how it won't be a strong candidate for OU, with contrary, it has everything it needs to achieve that, and I guess we'll have to wait until it's released to see that. Seperior doesn't need excessive opportunity, it needs one kill to get what is essentially a double moxie boost.
 
Friendly reminder that performance in Ubers is entirely unrelated to OU tiering decisions. Deoxys-N is a sack of shit in Ubers (mostly because it is overshadowed by its counterparts) yet was still banned from OU for being too powerful.
It has nothing to do with my post though, but thank you for the friendly reminder.

EDIT: ooh, I think you're talking about like Wynaut in Gen 4, I get it, but I doubt Serperior will be too good for OU anyway.
 
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nyttyn

From Now On, We'll...
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While my bad on the LO thing,
Keldeo with choice specs is only hitting for 535 base sp.attack, all while being locked into one move, with a lower base speed.
Please actually learn why Keldeo is such a massive threat with Choice Specs, and learn how silly that sounds.

498 is simply unimpressive when you have to compare Specs Keldeo, who's firing off 120 BP STABs (water STAB at that, one of the best in the game) that are very easily boosted to double STAB, with access to a 85 BP secondary STAB move that allows it to murder Special walls and act as a pesudo mixed attacker operating off of the very useful Fighting type. Hell, even compared to Scarf Keldeo, or god forbid Expert Belt Keldeo, and you're still looking at someone who can do equivalent if not superior damage in most circumstances via a far easier setup condition (and more damage base either way).

Or let's compare it to Kyurem-B, who packs a massive 170 base attack stat, which is enormous even without any boost, and is capable of firing off 80/120 BP STAB from the second-best attacking STAB in the game (though, the 120 does have a drawback), with a backup 100 BP electric move. It even makes better use of its free turns, being the single scariest pokemon in the game behind a sub that's basically guaranteed a kill if it gets one up.

THAT is what Serperior has to compete with, and that is why it is not OU caliber. There are simply way too many 'power' options that are far easier to set up (some don't even need set up!) that can produce results consistently and constantly. It doesn't matter if you outplay your opponent, if you manage to get the two KOs, anyone can, with sufficent skill, make up for inferior pokemon to a certain degree.

That doesn't make them OU material.
 
While my bad on the LO thing,

Please actually learn why Keldeo is such a massive threat with Choice Specs, and learn how silly that sounds.

498 is simply unimpressive when you have to compare Specs Keldeo, who's firing off 120 BP STABs (water STAB at that, one of the best in the game) that are very easily boosted to double STAB, with access to a 85 BP secondary STAB move that allows it to murder Special walls and act as a pesudo mixed attacker operating off of the very useful Fighting type. Hell, even compared to Scarf Keldeo, or god forbid Expert Belt Keldeo, and you're still looking at someone who can do equivalent if not superior damage in most circumstances via a far easier setup condition (and more damage base either way).

Or let's compare it to Kyurem-B, who packs a massive 170 base attack stat, which is enormous even without any boost, and is capable of firing off 80/120 BP STAB from the second-best attacking STAB in the game (though, the 120 does have a drawback), with a backup 100 BP electric move. It even makes better use of its free turns, being the single scariest pokemon in the game behind a sub that's basically guaranteed a kill if it gets one up.

THAT is what Serperior has to compete with, and that is why it is not OU caliber. There are simply way too many 'power' options that are far easier to set up (some don't even need set up!) that can produce results consistently and constantly. It doesn't matter if you outplay your opponent, if you manage to get the two KOs, anyone can, with sufficent skill, make up for inferior pokemon to a certain degree.

That doesn't make them OU material.
Good job cherry picking one thing and taking out of context. I understand Keldeo is a massive threat with Choice Specs, I understand why he's more so a massive threat with Choice Scarf (IMO), however, you completely ignored everything I posted.

You used that pathetic scarf set AGAIN to try and paint Serperior as bad. No, Serperior does not suck, your stupid scarf set does, so stop using that when comparing Serperior. Serperior with LO at +2 doesn't have 498 attack, it has 647 attack, who is firing off 140 BP STABs with that attack, that is more base damage than 120 BP from 535. Keldeo's advantage is he can take advantage of rain to fire off an equivalent of 180 BP, while having 2 superior STABs and doesn't take LO damage, Serperior's advantage is that it has a higher attack after one boost (which is not hard to obtain), is not locked into one move, meaning it's extremely hard to find a counter, has a higher base speed, and can boost to higher levels still, if the opportunity arises.

You've compared your shitty Serperior scarf set to a Gen 5 powerhouse who's taken full advantage of the weather wars, and a pokemon with such insane stats and power, it doesn't even make sense how he's OU, and used that to decide that Serperior isn't OU? If he falls short to both those pokemon, that won't make him not OU (especially because you're comparing completely different roles, with your crappy set). Yes, you can make up for almost any pokemon and get them K.O's, but that's not what you're doing with Serperior, he's not bringing down the team, if you let him enter the field, the same way you let Breloom enter the field, the same way you let Zam enter the field, Dugtrio, any scarfer/revenger killer. If he gets that switch in, after one Leaf Storm he can really threaten everything, and isn't something you want to let have that happen to, and while you can say that about anything that gets a boost, nothing can get a boost and threaten to KO with that boosting move at the same time, that servilely limits possible switches and counters, and not all have them have that awesome speed stat that Serperior is blessed with.

Honestly, if you keep posting comparing a scarfed Serperior to other pokemon, then I won't bother replying to you any more, because as I said, you've proved a scarf set is really lacking. Good job, I don't think anybody really thought a scarf set would be good in the first place. Prove to me the flaws of a LO set, what that fails at, with numbers, against other OU threats, and I'll listen, if it's resounding enough, I'll change my mind, but as it stands, you've said absolutely nothing to show that LO Serperior would not be a threat, and would not be OU material.

P.S. With numbers means don't just say it's hard to set up with Serperior, because it's not, not at all, that is why Contrary would make it so amazing, because it become effortless. It means show me counters, show me where, or what, it fails to take out after one +2 boost being obtained.
 
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Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
I have seen enough. We know Serperior's scarf set isn't that great (Why would you even run it with such good speed anyway? Revenge killing Scarf Latios?), and we know that it is a good set-up sweeper with LO with its own counters. Consider each other's points before ranting about how the other person is wrong.

To address BROloom's points: Serperior would be a good sweeper with Life Orb. It has the speed to make it work. However, a base 75 Special Attack basically means you NEED that Leaf Storm in order to make it work. 2HKO'ing Kyub is impressive without +2, and the fact that you get 3 coverage moves instead of the normal 2 is nice with that +2, but you are 2HKO'ing it without leaf storm, meaning that, on the off chance you are fighting Scarf Kyub, it will just Ice Beam/HP Fire in your face, near-killing you (it will with hazards). While I agree that Serperior does not suck, there are certain flaws that hold it back, and certain counters that prevent it from hitting its full potential (If you run HP Ground you get walled by Skar; if you run HP Fire you get walled by Heatran, both of which can phaze you out or kill you with Brave Bird/Fire move respectively). Plus, in order to reach that +2, you have to take 10% damage with LO recoil, and 30% for a +6. These make you all the more susceptible to priority or revenge-killing with a Scarf user or the two aforementioned counters, especially since your only form of recovery is giga drain or leech seed.

To address nyttyn's points: Try calc'ing with LO instead of Scarf. Contrary Serp does NOT want to be locked into Leaf Storm, even it does get +2 every time you use it. I do admit that, at base, it is extremely weak, but firing off a Leaf Storm can increase its stats and allow it to sweep more effectively than on its own without using it prior. That's why you don't run Scarf, you want that additional boost, especially since Serp has a base 113 Speed, which is good as-is (Speed is "good" around 108, to paint a mental picture). Heck, if recoil is SO important to you, run Expert Belt or Leftovers on it to get around it, I don't care. You're missing out on power, but you can more easily set up (and still almost OHKO Kyub at +2 in the case of Expert Belt). The ability to boost is much better than the speed that you get unless you have the immediate power that Pokemon like Keldeo have, that's why Scarf Celebi is so uncommon when you could run NP instead (I'm only counting Celebi's offensive variants, not the typical defensive ones). In addition, hazards can easily be overcome by a spinner, and it has decent natural bulk; not good, not bad, but decent (better than some of the other offensive junkies that populate the tier anyway).

Now that I've put in my 2 cents, can we please stop arguing about whether Serp is good, bad, or the extremes of these 2 options? Everyone has their own opinions, and we shouldn't be ranting about how 1 person is wrong until we actually test it in the OU metagame if and when it comes out. This is just a thread to state your opinions about what would happen if the DW abilities were released, not argue.
 
Serperior does have flaws, like all pokemon in OU, I never said it didn't, in fact, I argued that it does have flaws, but I don't get the fascination of +6, and how it takes 30% life to get there, If you've lost 30% life due to LO, the likelihood is you've KO'd at least 2 pokemon to get there, unless you we're being stupid and just using Leaf storm over and over when you shouldn't have. Kyruem-B is a pokemon that can revenge kill at +2, if scarfed, otherwise it has a 75% chance to be OHKO'd after Serperior is at +2, with Serperior out speeding if not scarfed, only the scarfed version is a real check/counter, and as I said earlier, there is no reason for Serperior to not be at +2 when something switches in. As for other scarfed pokemon, I posted how those aren't fool proof either.

As I said, Take HP fire, as the only things that really threaten to switch in and take you out before you can take them out are very certain scarf users, heatran and volcarona without rocks, then there are a portion that can revenge kill after damage, then everything else that can't do crap.

As for talking about whether Serp is good/bad, the whole point of this thread is what pokemon would be viable, and I think Serp is very much viable for OU, and will make a case for it, until someone convinces me otherwise :P

To reiterate why the a scarf set is useless, is because for Serperior to do decent damage, it either has to be using leaf storm against something that doesn't resist it, or it has to be at +2 (sometimes both), with the scarf set, all moves but leaf storm become useless, as you can't use Dragon Pulse/HP fire without that boost, as they won't do enough damage, so you're stuck using leaf storm, meaning is something resists grass, you're screwed. With a LO set, leaf storm isn't just your only means of doing damage, it's a powerful, damaging boosting move, allowing your other moves to hit very hard.

P.S. with expert belt, you'd still 2HKO if you leaf storm then dragon pulse, while if you're already at +2 (which you should be after anything switches in), you have a 25% chance to OHKO without rocks, guaranteed OHKO after SR.
 
It's been confirmed that for 200 BP at the battle tower equivalent in X and Y, you can buy an item that swaps your pokemon's current ability with their hidden ability. Whether this means their DW ability or their potential alternate in-game ability is yet to be determined, but it could mean a lot for the pokemon in this thread.
 

nyttyn

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Fair enough, I suppose it's pointless to argue since it's clear we both have wildy differing opinion. My apologies for getting caught up in the heat of the argument.

Personally, though, I think Serperior will really fail to leave any sort of mark. Like I said earlier, LO sets (the only sets, we've established, worth a damn) simply struggle to bring anything to the table that Keldeo or Thundurus-T do not already. It could be considered OU viable if we're comparing it against C-tier mons, certainly, but I think that's about the highest Serperior will ever go. It's simply too one-dimensional, too predictable, pretty easy to stop, and a bit difficult to set up. In BW1 it might have been great, even fantastic, but stat titans like Kyurem-B simply changed the face of OU.

It'll have hype for a few weeks, like Ditto and Amoongus, then die down when people realize it really isn't that great.

That's my 2c.
 
I think a speedy dual screens support set can be a decent gimmick once contrary comes out since it's LO set is at the least something you don't just want to let something die against. It has enough bulk to work off of and can outpace specs latios which very few supports can boast. Serperior also has some fantastic support options to use such along side reflect and light screen such as taunt,leech seed, glare, and dragon tail.
 

GlassGlaceon

My heart has now been set on love
Serp will have different counters depending on what hidden power it runs, ferro for those w/out hp fire or heatran for those w/out hp ground. (Doesn't learn earth power iirc) it's easily revenged if choice-locked, but LO is a different story. In the competitive meta, there's a thing called switching in which you remove pokemon a from play temporarily, usually to substitute in a pokemon that combats pokemon a's weaknesses. Now serp probably won't go OU, most likely UU IMO, but he still isn't as bad as everyone craps on him for, because he can be easily built around. Now stop arguing pls
Edit: also for ppl sayin kyube is a hard check, unless it's scarfed, it may get a little bit hurt by +2 LO Dragon pulse because all SERPS will run it js
 
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It's been confirmed that for 200 BP at the battle tower equivalent in X and Y, you can buy an item that swaps your pokemon's current ability with their hidden ability. Whether this means their DW ability or their potential alternate in-game ability is yet to be determined, but it could mean a lot for the pokemon in this thread.
This has not been confirmed. It allows you to swap between the two standard abilities for sure, but we don't know about Hidden Abilities.
 
Is this still open to discussion? There's been a whole lot of changes on the HA scene as well as new threats and all. Zapdos and Chandy lost theirs, Serp kept his, new mons Tyrantrum and Dragalge have some really kicking ones waiting to be released.

As far as the current thread discussion goes, thanks to an omnipresent threat called Talonflame, Serp's most definitely going to be wanting a sub, and due to the nature of how moves being transferred and such work, contrary sets might not get dragon pulse. Should he lose Dragon Pulse, that pretty much ruins his chances of going anywhere past RU, if even that.


EDT: actually I should probably ask if a similar topic will be made for XY
 
In technical cases only male japanese bulbasaurs was released I think. And Im not so sure about infernape either.
Its been confirmed. No DW ability switch.
 
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