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Project The SV UU Research Academy - Week 6 - Quaquaval & Iron Leaves (& Decidueye)
- Thread starter BigFatMantis
- Start date
Hello everyone! It's me again to announce this week's Live Research Tour!
Alongside the two mons we are researching another drop to UU is the return of Pelipper. Rain has always been a controversial topic in UU, is it broken? Where does the problem lie in rain? So for this week we want to focus on this and ban damp rock! A small change that effects pelipper and rain greatly. Will rain be more balanced without 8 turns of rain? Or is it something more than the amount of rain turns.
This Live Research Tour will happen at the UU showdown room on Friday, April 7th at 2 pm EST! We hope to see you there!
Alongside the two mons we are researching another drop to UU is the return of Pelipper. Rain has always been a controversial topic in UU, is it broken? Where does the problem lie in rain? So for this week we want to focus on this and ban damp rock! A small change that effects pelipper and rain greatly. Will rain be more balanced without 8 turns of rain? Or is it something more than the amount of rain turns.
This Live Research Tour will happen at the UU showdown room on Friday, April 7th at 2 pm EST! We hope to see you there!
Thanks to everyone who participated in today's Live Research Tour and also to the winner ramydos.
So to the question, how did the banning of Damp Rock affect the rain meta? There are a couple of things to note in that the banning of Damp Rock does hinder a hard rain playstyle much more, because of the lack of turns you can't swap around using multiple rain abusers throughout the 8 rain turns. Pelipper has just as much utility with or without Damp Rock, it can be a good offensive threat with specs or a good defensive check to the threats of the UU meta. There were plenty of countermeasures that happened throughout the tour to prevent rain from advancing as it normally does, but you still have to keep in mind the threat that comes from Floatzel, or Kilowattrel or other rain abusers if you don't have the proper countermeasures for it. Banning Damp Rock in this tour did make it be able to do less, but didn't remove the full threat that can come from common rain cores.
We hope to see you for the next Research Tour!
So to the question, how did the banning of Damp Rock affect the rain meta? There are a couple of things to note in that the banning of Damp Rock does hinder a hard rain playstyle much more, because of the lack of turns you can't swap around using multiple rain abusers throughout the 8 rain turns. Pelipper has just as much utility with or without Damp Rock, it can be a good offensive threat with specs or a good defensive check to the threats of the UU meta. There were plenty of countermeasures that happened throughout the tour to prevent rain from advancing as it normally does, but you still have to keep in mind the threat that comes from Floatzel, or Kilowattrel or other rain abusers if you don't have the proper countermeasures for it. Banning Damp Rock in this tour did make it be able to do less, but didn't remove the full threat that can come from common rain cores.
We hope to see you for the next Research Tour!
GREETINGS ALL RESEARCHERS!
As you may have realized by now, Iron Leaves has been quickbanned in SV UU! We picked it as a test subject because we didn't really consider it'd be a big issue but, banworthiness aside, it certainly outperformed everyone's expectations.
IF YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE SOME RESEARCH WORK ON IRON LEAVES, PLEASE SHARE YOUR FINDINGS WITH US ANYWAYS! Iron Leaves is going to be re-tested later, so any findingsg you have can be helpful for the future.
In the meantime, we are adding a new pokemon to this testing period:
Is Decidueye the new Ghastly Leaves of the tier, waiting to be exploited with Swords Dance sets? Or is it something more diverse, with its vast movepool and unique typing? We actually do not know! So help us find out by picking apart this pokemon and seeing if it's actually good in UU! Any set is fine, feel free to experiment with it.
THE NEW DEADLINE WILL BE APRIL 15 @ 11:59 PM GMT-4 TO POST FINDINGS FOR ALL 3 - IRON LEAVES, QUAQUAVAL, AND DECIDUEYE!
Tagging anyone who's already signed up for notice:
pomfpomfpluff Noxey lavarina Anri_Dies
Also if you haven't yet signed up, feel free to do so now and help us test! Happy Easter everyone!
As you may have realized by now, Iron Leaves has been quickbanned in SV UU! We picked it as a test subject because we didn't really consider it'd be a big issue but, banworthiness aside, it certainly outperformed everyone's expectations.
IF YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE SOME RESEARCH WORK ON IRON LEAVES, PLEASE SHARE YOUR FINDINGS WITH US ANYWAYS! Iron Leaves is going to be re-tested later, so any findingsg you have can be helpful for the future.
In the meantime, we are adding a new pokemon to this testing period:
Decidueye
Ability:
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Ability:
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Is Decidueye the new Ghastly Leaves of the tier, waiting to be exploited with Swords Dance sets? Or is it something more diverse, with its vast movepool and unique typing? We actually do not know! So help us find out by picking apart this pokemon and seeing if it's actually good in UU! Any set is fine, feel free to experiment with it.
THE NEW DEADLINE WILL BE APRIL 15 @ 11:59 PM GMT-4 TO POST FINDINGS FOR ALL 3 - IRON LEAVES, QUAQUAVAL, AND DECIDUEYE!
Tagging anyone who's already signed up for notice:
pomfpomfpluff Noxey lavarina Anri_Dies
Also if you haven't yet signed up, feel free to do so now and help us test! Happy Easter everyone!
Signing in for this week as SVUURW6 Diannie
Iron Leaves
INTRO: I was just starting to get a feel with Iron Leaves since I didn't managed to use it well in OU. But then when I was just about to play better with it, it got quickbanned xd. So, I also decided to post this outright and will just do another post for the other two research subjects.
Iron Leaves
SETS USED:
Iron Leaves @ Choice Band
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Psyblade
- Close Combat
- Night Slash
Iron Leaves @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 96 HP / 160 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Psyblade
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
SUMMARY: I was trying to find an efficient EV spread so the spread looks weird but the main idea as usual is to have higher speed than attack so that Quark Drive will give speed boost. I tried both Choice Band set and Sword Dance set. In both sets though, I find it rare to click Close Combat so I guess not having Tera fighting is fine and Tera Fire is better to be immuned to burn status.
Unlike my previous research notes, I won't lump in many replays and just feature this one for now:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1839219173-erlyhyc0u46ekq1md6q86h1hq3hra9wpw
The play starts turn 11. Basically, Tera Fire helped Iron Leaves be immuned to Talonflame's flame body and Rotom-Heat's Will-o-wisp. Mimikyu and Gardevoir weakened Hippowdon enough so Iron Leaves can OHKO it and Iron Leaves only took damage from the bulky Rotom-Heat. Despite rarely clicking, Close Combat is still a nice have and in that replay, it click it vs Magnezone to complete the sweep.
The main menace I think vs Iron Leaves is Scizor. It can Bullet Punch priority or U-turn. So having an ally like Talonflame is nice for Iron Leaves and Talonflame can pivot Iron Leaves in. Having water resist would also be nice especially once Iron Leaves used Tera Fire. That's another weakness of Iron Leaves, priority moves likes Aqua Jet from Tauros-Aqua. That is why I paired it too with Water Absorb Quag or Storm Drain Gastrodon which are also helpful vs Rain.
Conclusion:
It is banworthy yeah. Only like 7 mons in UU that can outspeed it when it has Quark Drive speed boost. And those mons also need boost of their own which is usually from Choice Scarf. Its 90/88/108 hp/def/spdef base stats also makes it easy for Iron Leaves to get in resisted weak attacks and set-up Sword Dance.
That's it for now! I'll make a separate post for Quaquaval and Decidueye including my response to other researcher's post. Posting this now ig to initiate a discussion and commentaries xd.
Iron Leaves
INTRO: I was just starting to get a feel with Iron Leaves since I didn't managed to use it well in OU. But then when I was just about to play better with it, it got quickbanned xd. So, I also decided to post this outright and will just do another post for the other two research subjects.
Iron Leaves
SETS USED:
Iron Leaves @ Choice Band
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Psyblade
- Close Combat
- Night Slash
Iron Leaves @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 96 HP / 160 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Psyblade
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
SUMMARY: I was trying to find an efficient EV spread so the spread looks weird but the main idea as usual is to have higher speed than attack so that Quark Drive will give speed boost. I tried both Choice Band set and Sword Dance set. In both sets though, I find it rare to click Close Combat so I guess not having Tera fighting is fine and Tera Fire is better to be immuned to burn status.
Unlike my previous research notes, I won't lump in many replays and just feature this one for now:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1839219173-erlyhyc0u46ekq1md6q86h1hq3hra9wpw
The play starts turn 11. Basically, Tera Fire helped Iron Leaves be immuned to Talonflame's flame body and Rotom-Heat's Will-o-wisp. Mimikyu and Gardevoir weakened Hippowdon enough so Iron Leaves can OHKO it and Iron Leaves only took damage from the bulky Rotom-Heat. Despite rarely clicking, Close Combat is still a nice have and in that replay, it click it vs Magnezone to complete the sweep.
The main menace I think vs Iron Leaves is Scizor. It can Bullet Punch priority or U-turn. So having an ally like Talonflame is nice for Iron Leaves and Talonflame can pivot Iron Leaves in. Having water resist would also be nice especially once Iron Leaves used Tera Fire. That's another weakness of Iron Leaves, priority moves likes Aqua Jet from Tauros-Aqua. That is why I paired it too with Water Absorb Quag or Storm Drain Gastrodon which are also helpful vs Rain.
Conclusion:
It is banworthy yeah. Only like 7 mons in UU that can outspeed it when it has Quark Drive speed boost. And those mons also need boost of their own which is usually from Choice Scarf. Its 90/88/108 hp/def/spdef base stats also makes it easy for Iron Leaves to get in resisted weak attacks and set-up Sword Dance.
That's it for now! I'll make a separate post for Quaquaval and Decidueye including my response to other researcher's post. Posting this now ig to initiate a discussion and commentaries xd.
I am afraid I did not test nearly enough for any sort of fair analysis (My Easter weekend wound up being far more exciting than anticipated) but from what low ladder games I could grab my conclusions were that speed booster swords dance is a fantastic cleaner that doesn't really need much more than a good switch to sweep an unprepared team and is relatively hard to stop without a solid check like talonflame. My goal was making a set that did a relatively similar job as the Iron Valiant set that is going around OU and it performed it rather well from my limited testing.
Granted I would not have called for a quick ban but I see why the council might have decided in favour of it. It's a shame I didn't get to earn any points this week but oh well, there's always the ghost bird to try out if I end up having a slow week at work
Granted I would not have called for a quick ban but I see why the council might have decided in favour of it. It's a shame I didn't get to earn any points this week but oh well, there's always the ghost bird to try out if I end up having a slow week at work
Iron Leaves
Introduction
Iron Leaves has always interested me since it's stats and movepool were revealed because of how it was so obviously a UnderUsed caliber pokemon. Even before it dropped I was theorymonning and labbing it because it seemed like such an incredible setup sweeper, one that abused Terastilization to a point where it was strong but fair. Then it finally dropped to UU and it's impact has been... less than elite if I do say so myself. With Rain and Quaquaval here to outshine it during the early portions of the tier it's really not being spammed to high heaven, but I still definitely think that the wider playerbase is underrating it a lot. In this post I will be going over exactly what it acomplishes, which teammates help patch up it's holes and what potential counterplay it has.
The Set
LEAVE Me Alone >:( (Iron Leaves) @ Leftovers
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 96 HP / 160 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Tera Blast / Close Combat
- Psyblade
- Leaf Blade
Before going into what role it has on the team, I'd first like to talk about the set. In my opinion Quark Drive Speed + Swords Dance + Tera Fire is the best Iron Leaves set at the moment and it's not even close, every other set just falls short at sweeping and especially cleaning. Since it's being used on an Electric Terrain team I decided to opt for Leftovers as a filler choice over Booster Energy, which ended up working out decently well as it punishes people who try to switch around it to stall out Terrain Turns. The attacking moves meanwhile are pretty variable and can be experimented with a lot, but I chose Tera Blast specifically to more easily clean up pre boost against teams using Scizor, Brambleghast and Tinkaton. Close Combat is also a worthwhile option as it always one hit KO's Iron Jugulis at +2, which means that you can beat it 1v1 with Tera and without Chipping it first.
Team
I'd also like to go over the team I chose to use Iron Leaves on and why exactly I specifically chose the core I did while building around it. As I previously stated I wanted to build an HO team around it but also wanted to use something unfamiliar, so I went in the Electric Terrain direction instead. I chose to go in the Electric Terrain direction specifically because it gave Iron Leaves a lot of interesting benefits that no other Hyper Offense enabler could mimick, the main one of course being the Psyblade boost. I cannot stress enough how big the power boost is for Iron Leaves because it takes a kind of weak and dinky move and turns it into something which can OHKO Salamence at +1, it's incredible honestly.
The other perks are more like small bonuses if anything, but are still nice on occasion. The free item slot is probably worth more if you're not boring like me, such as stuff like Colbur Berry for Sucker Punches or maybe even Life Orb for an extra power boost. Being immune to Sleep is also nice on occasion but isn't as important aside from edge cases like a Tera'd Brute Bonnet after you've Tera'd and aren't Spore immune, or for trying to set up on things like Screens Espeon.
Pros
- Solid Speed
Iron Leaves has an excellent Speed tier by UU standards. While it's slower than some tier staples like Gengar, Iron Jugulis and Pawmot, it still manages to get the jump on much of the tier, which makes sweeping lategame a breeze. These faster mons are also slower than it while Quark Drive is active, while also lacking the power to OHKO it unless they're using a boosting item. Generally I almost never found myself having Iron Leaves get revenge killed by anything faster than it.
- Good Bulk
For being a setup sweeper Iron Leaves overall has pretty great bulk alongside a few decent resistances which give it a slew of setup opportunities, the most noteworthy examples of course being Sandy Shocks and Pawmot. It cannot be understated just how massive a setup sweeper which could not give two fucks about Sandy Shocks or Pawmot is for HO, especially since It's not like Iron Leaves is a bad mon outside of that either. The good Bulk also just generally helps it live hits before or after setting up, since it doesn't immediately die to anything unless it's a Boosted STAB Super Effective move or a Bug move, it can even live hits like a Scarf Gengar Sludge Bomb and an Offensive Salamence Hurricane. In this replay Iron Leaves shows this by using it's defensive typing to wall a fat mon, use it as setup fodder and sweep.
- Extremely Versatile
Psyblade + Tera Blast Fire/Close Combat + Leaf Blade hits the entire metagame for neutral damage at mininum, which is very crucial on a mon who can choose between cleaning and breaking without having to switch up sets. This generally leads to it overall being extremely consistent against a lot of teams, which was definitely very noticeable in most of the matches I played. In this replay Iron Leaves cleans after the team's breaker is finished breakin, while in this replay you can see Iron Leaves break so that Hawlucha can clean. Rarely if ever was Iron Leaves dead against any team solely because of how it just hits everything decently hard and can circumvent typical counterplay through abuse of the totally balanced mechanic that is Teraztilization :smile:.
Cons
- Checked By Staples
There are however a lot of things in the current metagame that are extremely unfriendly toward Iron Leaves, with a couple of examples being the long list of common metagame staples that can reliably trash it under normal circumstances. Salamence and Talonflame are solid defensive checks if Tera is not involved since both can threaten it in some way shape or form, while Lokix, Bisharp and Scizor are solid Offensive checks thanks to their priority. However the biggest hurdle in this regard is definitely Iron Jugulis, which basically has free reign over Tera Blast Fire variants since it never gets OHKO'd even at +2 by any of it's attacks. Booster Energy variants are by far the most dangerous though, since they can both outspeed and threaten to KO it. This weakness can be seen in this replay where I ironically enough use my own Iron Jugulis to check the opposing Iron Leaves by clicking Dark Pulse twice in Electric Terrain.
- Priority Weak
One of the biggest sweeping hurdles I personally encountered while attempting to use Iron Leaves outside of Psychic Terrain was definitely the Priority weakness, which ended up being what cut most of the attempted sweeps short. Not only does it lack crucial resistances to common Priority options like Bullet Punch and Extreme Speed, but it's also weak to First Impression and Sucker Punch. Lokix especially deserves to be highlighted because of how First Impression boosted by Tera Bug and Choice Band can OHKO even after Tera FIre thanks to Tinted Lens.
- Tera Reliant
These problems can of course be circumvented by just using Tera on it, but that also leads to another one of my gripes; it's a high priority Defensive Tera abuser that loses out hard against opposing Defensive Tera. Since it's not strong enough to land Ohkos on decently bulky neutral targets it can easily get countered through this method, especially since it often needs to take a hit while setting up. Mons like Slowbro and Quagsire can double up on this since they both hard wall you as soon as you can't hit them Super Effectively. This is showcased in this replay where the opposing Magnezone Terastilizes in order to tank a hit and KO back
Good Teammates
I thought that I'd also go over some mons that paired well with iron Leaves during playtesting. This portion would've been longer if Iron Leaves managed to last through the Quick Ban, but alas big stall took yet another
.Froslass is a solid Lead that I personally choose for two main reasons.
1: It's the only good suicide lead that doesn't need to Tera in order to spinblock
2: It's the only one with access to Speed control + Taunt + Spikes, which makes it both good at setting up for a breaking attempt and makes cleaning lategame easier thanks to the Spike stacking.
Sandy Shocks is alternatively also a worthwhile suicide lead, while also just being a generally good teammate on teams which don't go in the Hyper Offensive direction. Generally giving volatile sweepers easier switchin opportunities is a good thing, especially since Iron Leaves has a bad defensive typing which makes it harder to get in safely.
Pincurchin is a pretty self explanatory inclusion. If you wanna run a Terrain team you've gotta use one of the bad Terrain setters and Pincurchin is probably the least interesting one to talk about, since it just exists for Terrain. By itself it has a couple of neat and somewhat unique tools like Memento and Toxic Spikes which can help Iron Leaves set up and sweep respectively, but overall it's not very good as a standalone mon.
Indeedee is also another solid Hyper Offense enabler that pairs well with Iron Leaves. Overall I'd definitely say that Psychic Terrain fixes the issues Iron Leaves has than Electric Terrain does, since it grants it both a Power boost (albeit a significantly lower one) and a priority immunity. Indeedee is also a much better individual mon than Pincurchin who directly supports Iron Leaves through Healing Wish and Encore to help it set up, so I'd definitely say that overall Psychic Terrain > Electric Terrain explicitly for supporting Iron Leaves.
Conclusion
Overall I'd definitely say that my expectations going in were met with flying colors. Iron Leaves was a consistent performer who managed to contribute every game despite the many flaws that it has thanks to the many upsides that it uniquely has as a setup sweeper. It overall offensively matches up amazingly against a large portion of the metagame and has enough bulk to where it's bad defensive typing can be somewhat overlooked. At the moment I'd place it around the A+ threshold, because of how influential it was during the short period it was legal.
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In light of the
QB I decided to focus my research elsewhere and answer a fundamental metagame question for the weeks to come.
We know the
can dance, but how good is it at dancing away the silly pointy smogon pebbles?
Introducing, Bulk Up Spin Quaquaval:
Quaquaval @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 200 HP / 16 Atk / 180 Def / 112 Spe
Impish Nature
- Aqua Step
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
- Bulk Up
The point of this set was relatively simple. A setup sweeper that can cause huge amount of mid-game damage to enemy teams in order for a cleaner (I'm looking at you
) to mop up whatever is left, while at the same time compressing the need to put defog on Talonflame or rely on a traditional spinner like Donphan or Bramble. The advantage that Quaq has over the other choices of spinner is the ability to actually force out pokemon like Hippowdown/Donphan/Gastrodon, not because it can beat them very fast mind you but because there is very little counterplay to him once he's already got a few boosts going. With defensive + roost being a standard choice for quaquaval's set, the fear of being roost-stalled while the duck continues to boost pass your counterplay options usually forces a switch from players who can't possibly know you are on spin instead of roost. Here is a replay that showcases this interaction, where we see the gastrodon being unable to stop me from spinning and the threat of me boosting pass his team forces Florges to come out, which I can set up on thanks to tera poison (Which is strictly worse compared to tera steel, I learned that lesson later). Alas the 100% burn chance upon bonking into talonflame prevented the full team sweep but the little maneuver still costed my opponent almost 3 pokemon and ended up giving me the win.
Rapid Spin also crucially gives you the ability to boost your speed against Storm Drain Gastrodon and Water Absorb Quag, which is crucially important due to Quaq's low speed, which leaves you wide open to be revenge killed by Gengar who switches in for free against your CC. 112 Speed IVs ensures that you hit 351 speed after one boost, letting you step on non scarf gengar without issue (though you do not OHKO him without an attack boost)
The Results
Well I have to say, as a spinner Quaquaval is a pretty alright setup sweeper.
I do mean that by the way. While the lack of roost did deprive me of quite a few setup opportunities, I've come to the conclusion that the threat of bulk up+roost is often wiggle room enough to make a sweep happen, and even after your opponent figures out that you clearly don't have it, the defense boosts, Quaq's amazing typing and leftovers can often be enough to do the job of breaking down teams. Tera Steel compliments this pokemon perfectly in that it allows you to suddenly resist 4 whole types that used to OHKO you, letting the duck get surprise speed/defense boosts that turn the game on its head. Sure it might not win the game outright nearly as often, but there is still value in getting a 2-3 for 1 and also compressing hazard control into a pokemon nobody expects it on.
That said, my answers to "Is it good" are a quite a bit less glowing. It is an alright set that relies on the element of surprise to be effective and does not perform consistently in the way that traditional bulk up + roost sets do. Sure its very funny that it can be a defensive spinner that still ocasionally sets up and wins the game by itself but that's mostly a credit to Quaquaval as a pokemon and to the fact that the common Quaquaval answers on the team are already dealt with or nonexistant. This set is fundamentally a lukewarm bet on the fact that outside of its spin utility you can get value by getting a good matchup that can't stop Quaq or that your opponent is going to blunder their water resist to a stray trailblaze. And this "spin utility" is hampered ironically by the lack of roost and HDB, making it akward for Quaquaval to consistently switch into hazards if you don't have a way to stop the hazard setters. In the ideal scenario you can turn a spin opportunity into a big dent on the enemy team but its also very likely that they merely switch in a threat you cannot boost past and then set up hazards again later, forcing you to come in and take damage again.
Overall, my conclusion that even though Quaquaval is a good pokemon with rapid spin, its not a very good rapid spinner, and while the role compression is relatively useful in that it lets you diversify your walls on a balance team or potentially set up on different things than the roost set, it should be seen as a niche emergency band-aid for a hazard reliant team that has no hazard control and wants a more agressive pokemon on the slot than Brambleghast, or teams that need a secondary source of hazard removal to work properly. Use at your own risk!
We know the
Introducing, Bulk Up Spin Quaquaval:
Quaquaval @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 200 HP / 16 Atk / 180 Def / 112 Spe
Impish Nature
- Aqua Step
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
- Bulk Up
The point of this set was relatively simple. A setup sweeper that can cause huge amount of mid-game damage to enemy teams in order for a cleaner (I'm looking at you
Rapid Spin also crucially gives you the ability to boost your speed against Storm Drain Gastrodon and Water Absorb Quag, which is crucially important due to Quaq's low speed, which leaves you wide open to be revenge killed by Gengar who switches in for free against your CC. 112 Speed IVs ensures that you hit 351 speed after one boost, letting you step on non scarf gengar without issue (though you do not OHKO him without an attack boost)
The Results
Well I have to say, as a spinner Quaquaval is a pretty alright setup sweeper.
I do mean that by the way. While the lack of roost did deprive me of quite a few setup opportunities, I've come to the conclusion that the threat of bulk up+roost is often wiggle room enough to make a sweep happen, and even after your opponent figures out that you clearly don't have it, the defense boosts, Quaq's amazing typing and leftovers can often be enough to do the job of breaking down teams. Tera Steel compliments this pokemon perfectly in that it allows you to suddenly resist 4 whole types that used to OHKO you, letting the duck get surprise speed/defense boosts that turn the game on its head. Sure it might not win the game outright nearly as often, but there is still value in getting a 2-3 for 1 and also compressing hazard control into a pokemon nobody expects it on.
That said, my answers to "Is it good" are a quite a bit less glowing. It is an alright set that relies on the element of surprise to be effective and does not perform consistently in the way that traditional bulk up + roost sets do. Sure its very funny that it can be a defensive spinner that still ocasionally sets up and wins the game by itself but that's mostly a credit to Quaquaval as a pokemon and to the fact that the common Quaquaval answers on the team are already dealt with or nonexistant. This set is fundamentally a lukewarm bet on the fact that outside of its spin utility you can get value by getting a good matchup that can't stop Quaq or that your opponent is going to blunder their water resist to a stray trailblaze. And this "spin utility" is hampered ironically by the lack of roost and HDB, making it akward for Quaquaval to consistently switch into hazards if you don't have a way to stop the hazard setters. In the ideal scenario you can turn a spin opportunity into a big dent on the enemy team but its also very likely that they merely switch in a threat you cannot boost past and then set up hazards again later, forcing you to come in and take damage again.
Overall, my conclusion that even though Quaquaval is a good pokemon with rapid spin, its not a very good rapid spinner, and while the role compression is relatively useful in that it lets you diversify your walls on a balance team or potentially set up on different things than the roost set, it should be seen as a niche emergency band-aid for a hazard reliant team that has no hazard control and wants a more agressive pokemon on the slot than Brambleghast, or teams that need a secondary source of hazard removal to work properly. Use at your own risk!
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SVUURW6 Diannie
SV UU Research Week 6 Part 2: Bulk Up Quaquaval and Decidueye
INTRO: Continuing my notes for this week, this is a separate post for Quaquaval and Decidueye. It’s nice to have Decidueye to be paired with Quaquaval since the water types that checks Quaquaval’s Aqua Step and Ice Spinner can be dealt by Decidueye, plus the latter is a defogger unlike Iron Leaves that kinda is the same with Quaquaval which is a sweeper. Starting off with the sets I’ve used as usual….
Bulk Up Quaquaval
SETS USED:
Quaquaval @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 148 Atk / 204 Def / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Aqua Step
- Ice Spinner
- Close Combat
Quaquaval @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 16 HP/ 84 Atk / 252 SpD / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Aqua Step
- Rapid Spin
- Close Combat
SUMMARY: I tried two sets of BU Quaquaval. One with phy def investments and the other with max SpD investments. I didn’t notice anything that would make the other standout to be honest. In the replays below, the phy def investment was helpful for it to get in vs salamence and bisharp but I don’t think that should be the gameplan. Quaquaval can get in via a slow pivot so that it can healthily get into the field and click Bulk Up. Besides, spdef investment wasn’t needed to get into the likes of Iron Jugulis’ Dark Pulse since its fight typing resists it.
Calc: 252 SpA Iron Jugulis Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Quaquaval: 79-93 (25.4 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Jugulis Dark Pulse vs. 16 HP / 144 SpD Quaquaval: 99-117 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
The 1st calc above is what happened in one of the replays below while the other one seems an optimal EV spread imo. Just take note though that Iron Jugulis can click Hurricane that OHKOs Quaquaval so make sure it is locked into Dark Pulse.
Decidueye
Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Defog
- Knock Off
- U-turn
SUMMARY: I only tried the set above to be honest. I haven’t met a lot of Decidueye in the ladder so I don’t still have a strong opinion about it. Tera Steel is nice as I’ve shown in the replays below. It seems unnecessary since Decidueye is already immune to Normal types but being able to remove the Grass/Ghost typing sometimes is clutch and Steel is a very good defensive typing. Decidueye can spam Knock off and be a slow pivot in which for this week, I paired it with Quaquaval. I also relied on it as the sole hazard control in the team.
NOTABLE REPLAYS:
CONCLUSION:
Bulk Up Quaquaval has a lot of competition with its other set options which are Sword Dance for faster and stronger attack set-up and Band set. Not being choice locked is nice but it is also tricky to find an opportunity to safely click Bulk Up. It can easily be revenge-killed if ever it didn’t click Aqua Step to outspeed opponents like Gengar.
As for Decidueye, I managed to dive deep in the pros and cons of Tera Steel while using a defensive utility set. IMO Decidueye has enough power with just Adamant plus max atk ev spread so it can go with a full utility set without sacrificing much offensive power. Knock off will deal decent damage with its high base 107 atk stat plus it has STAB Leaf Blade which has high critical hit ratio that can turn Decidueye a surprised sweeper late game or break through some walls midgame. Opponents that would also rely on a spinblocker can be an opportunity for Decidueye since aside from them not being able to block defog, ghost types are weak to Knock-off. Decidueye is also a spinblocker itself which is nice.
OVERALL RATING:
Bulk Up Quaquaval: (A) An A rating because along with the defense boost from Bulk Up, its ability Moxie can make it go out of control and trickier to revenge kill. It looks broken since it seems easy to snowball on paper but teams nowadays can adjust in teambuild to have a reliable way to keep it in check not only defensively but also put offensive pressure on it. I would still have DD Salamence higher than it since its base 135 vs base 120 atk plus Salamence is faster too.
Decidueye: (B+) Decidueye definitely has an impactful role in the metagame but it is not that potent since I won’t put it higher than Brambleghast. Defog being a reliable hazard control since it doesn’t get spinblocked has its drawback which is that it also removes the opposing side hazards (which means Knocking Off boots seems kinda ineffective then). Having U-turn differentiates it from others but it is hard for me to justify it being A- at this moment seeing that the current A- mons right now are the likes of Scizor, Iron Jugulis, Lucario, Mimikyu, and Scream Tail which are more potent than Decidueye imo.
Commentaries on other researcher's findings
END of my research notes for2 weeks Week 6
SV UU Research Week 6 Part 2: Bulk Up Quaquaval and Decidueye
INTRO: Continuing my notes for this week, this is a separate post for Quaquaval and Decidueye. It’s nice to have Decidueye to be paired with Quaquaval since the water types that checks Quaquaval’s Aqua Step and Ice Spinner can be dealt by Decidueye, plus the latter is a defogger unlike Iron Leaves that kinda is the same with Quaquaval which is a sweeper. Starting off with the sets I’ve used as usual….
Bulk Up Quaquaval
SETS USED:
Quaquaval @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 148 Atk / 204 Def / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Aqua Step
- Ice Spinner
- Close Combat
Quaquaval @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 16 HP/ 84 Atk / 252 SpD / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Aqua Step
- Rapid Spin
- Close Combat
SUMMARY: I tried two sets of BU Quaquaval. One with phy def investments and the other with max SpD investments. I didn’t notice anything that would make the other standout to be honest. In the replays below, the phy def investment was helpful for it to get in vs salamence and bisharp but I don’t think that should be the gameplan. Quaquaval can get in via a slow pivot so that it can healthily get into the field and click Bulk Up. Besides, spdef investment wasn’t needed to get into the likes of Iron Jugulis’ Dark Pulse since its fight typing resists it.
Calc: 252 SpA Iron Jugulis Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Quaquaval: 79-93 (25.4 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Jugulis Dark Pulse vs. 16 HP / 144 SpD Quaquaval: 99-117 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
The 1st calc above is what happened in one of the replays below while the other one seems an optimal EV spread imo. Just take note though that Iron Jugulis can click Hurricane that OHKOs Quaquaval so make sure it is locked into Dark Pulse.
Decidueye
Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Defog
- Knock Off
- U-turn
SUMMARY: I only tried the set above to be honest. I haven’t met a lot of Decidueye in the ladder so I don’t still have a strong opinion about it. Tera Steel is nice as I’ve shown in the replays below. It seems unnecessary since Decidueye is already immune to Normal types but being able to remove the Grass/Ghost typing sometimes is clutch and Steel is a very good defensive typing. Decidueye can spam Knock off and be a slow pivot in which for this week, I paired it with Quaquaval. I also relied on it as the sole hazard control in the team.
NOTABLE REPLAYS:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1837206556-exq2fkuj2m2topc3m1gc9d38ydt60p7pw
Quaquaval calc
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1837289046-3384kwn48fjo3qhcffugovf8rlswegepw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1837765911-sauzvql6i2pfmle3v6dvumd4epel9b9pw
Weird decidueye
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1839896540-79tfsstp47tll1uzhmj9uw7a4hsw449pw
Decidueye STEEL
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1840592674-55y7x0ejgzr9punt5fcj3n06ccngfk4pw
No bulk up but quaval sweep
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1840602864-t7pgsf1a0bnurdod18bv5z842ai5hompw
Vs another suspect player...
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1840616759-e6c2mrw9p822q257att9b8py870vn6xpw
- Turn33, Quaquaval enters the field by switching in vs Salamence’s Dragon Claw that only dealt 44% to it while the former can hit back with a 4x super effective Ice Spinner that OHKOed the latter. With Moxie, the boosted attack makes it easier to sweep through a half health Espeon and low HP Forretress to win the game.
Quaquaval calc
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1837289046-3384kwn48fjo3qhcffugovf8rlswegepw
- This game made me readjust the ev spread of Quaquaval to outspeed Hawlucha at +1. T8 Quaquaval entered vs a burned Scizor that helped it win the game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1837765911-sauzvql6i2pfmle3v6dvumd4epel9b9pw
- Opposing Quaquaval entered the field T5 when I clicked Dark Pulse on nonboosted Iron Jugulis so it only dealt 29% not very effective dmg to opp mon. At +1, it also outspeed my Scarf Gardevoir and OHKOed it with Aqua Step. At +2, not even Gastrodon could stop it as CC OHKOed it.
Weird decidueye
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1839896540-79tfsstp47tll1uzhmj9uw7a4hsw449pw
- T6, Decidueye Tera’d to steel vs Maushold. It also ohko crit K-OFFed opp Espeon. Weird start for my Decidueye research.
Decidueye STEEL
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1840592674-55y7x0ejgzr9punt5fcj3n06ccngfk4pw
- T7, Quaquaval entered free switch and faced with a Bisharp so opp switch into their own Quaquaval. Finally i get to click Bulk Up and an unboosted Aqua Step plus +1 CC KOed opp Quaquaval. Then, opp Mimikyu 2hkoed Quaquaval. Decidueye entered and Tera’d outright expecting a ghost move from Mimikyu but they sent in Bisharp instead so it’s the one that got k-offed its Eviolite. Scared of a fight move from Bisharp, I switch out and Decidueye returned vs Haxorus’ +1 outrage. It dealt 65% which left Decidueye enough HP to survive a Life Orb boosted Mimikyu Shadow Sneak. Decidueye sweep the game xd.
No bulk up but quaval sweep
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1840602864-t7pgsf1a0bnurdod18bv5z842ai5hompw
- Decidueye Knock Offed opp Brambleghast ohkoing it with crit while only receiving 40% from Shadow Sneak. It entered again to K-off Scizor since opp Grimsnarl Parting Shot-ed out. Decidueye pivoted Quaquaval in after taking a 42% dmg from Bullet Punch. At that point, Quaquaval completed the sweep vs opp Grimsnarl behind reflect, Noivern, Talonflame, and their own Quaquaval once mine has snowballed already leaving it also KOing opp Scizor in the end.
Vs another suspect player...
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1840616759-e6c2mrw9p822q257att9b8py870vn6xpw
- Decidueye entered vs opp Sandy Shocks. I overestimated Quaquaval’s tankiness vs Scizor’s Trailblaze at +2 with no item. Final replay for this research since my other games had either Quaquaval not being able to click Bulk Up again or Decidueye just doing the same thing or games where both of them did nothing noteworthy.
CONCLUSION:
Bulk Up Quaquaval has a lot of competition with its other set options which are Sword Dance for faster and stronger attack set-up and Band set. Not being choice locked is nice but it is also tricky to find an opportunity to safely click Bulk Up. It can easily be revenge-killed if ever it didn’t click Aqua Step to outspeed opponents like Gengar.
As for Decidueye, I managed to dive deep in the pros and cons of Tera Steel while using a defensive utility set. IMO Decidueye has enough power with just Adamant plus max atk ev spread so it can go with a full utility set without sacrificing much offensive power. Knock off will deal decent damage with its high base 107 atk stat plus it has STAB Leaf Blade which has high critical hit ratio that can turn Decidueye a surprised sweeper late game or break through some walls midgame. Opponents that would also rely on a spinblocker can be an opportunity for Decidueye since aside from them not being able to block defog, ghost types are weak to Knock-off. Decidueye is also a spinblocker itself which is nice.
OVERALL RATING:
Bulk Up Quaquaval: (A) An A rating because along with the defense boost from Bulk Up, its ability Moxie can make it go out of control and trickier to revenge kill. It looks broken since it seems easy to snowball on paper but teams nowadays can adjust in teambuild to have a reliable way to keep it in check not only defensively but also put offensive pressure on it. I would still have DD Salamence higher than it since its base 135 vs base 120 atk plus Salamence is faster too.
Decidueye: (B+) Decidueye definitely has an impactful role in the metagame but it is not that potent since I won’t put it higher than Brambleghast. Defog being a reliable hazard control since it doesn’t get spinblocked has its drawback which is that it also removes the opposing side hazards (which means Knocking Off boots seems kinda ineffective then). Having U-turn differentiates it from others but it is hard for me to justify it being A- at this moment seeing that the current A- mons right now are the likes of Scizor, Iron Jugulis, Lucario, Mimikyu, and Scream Tail which are more potent than Decidueye imo.
Commentaries on other researcher's findings
I agree on this conclusion by Anri_Dies, specifically in Quaquaval is not a very good rapid spinner. Brambleghast spinblocks it and now there's also Decidueye which literally has the same typing in which Quaquaval is weak into. Besides, the rapid spin slot specifically in Bulk Up set is in contention with the Ice Spinner move which is the move that could have scared the Grass types. Unless one is willing to put Ice Spinner over Close Combat, it is really not optimal for Quaquaval to be a spinner, even if it is not using a Bulk Up set.
Yeah Iron Leaves has pretty great bulk. I would even say it is kinda insane when like compared to Decidueye. Iron Leaves has 90/88/108 hp-def-spdef base stats. Decidueye has 78/75/100 with its SpAtk the only one it has higher base stat than Iron Leaves. Kinda unfair comparison? Yeah but I just also wanted to further elaborate my point above as to why I used a defensive set for Decidueye instead of spamming a Sword Dance set. Even Salamence bulk is 95/80/80 and Iron Leaves is also faster so I ain't surprised anymore that it got quickbanned. Pomfpomfpluff also managed to detailed well enough some more specific interactions with Iron Leaves in the metagame so check out their post above.
END of my research notes for
i did try out Quaquaval a few times, but in the end I decided to go with Decidueye instead because lord almighty this guy's analysis is long and I have had no time recently. so.
I've tried Utility and Choice Band the most, and I personally think those two are the best sets for Decidueye, moreso utility. Among our Grass-type Utility mons, Decidueye seems to fit the job just right. Defog, Roost, U-Turn, and any attacking move ranging from Leaf Blade and Shadow Sneak, to more utility in Knock Off. Personally statwise, compared to its other Grass/Ghost rival, Brambleghast
, Decidueye offers much more defensive utility than Brambleghast due to its ability to take hits easier. The only thing Decidueye is missing is its own hazards but I don't think it needs that.
Comparing it to Tsareena
now, aside from the difference in typing where Decidueye makes a good spinblocker, their stats are almost similar. Tsareena has more power and equal defenses, while Decidueye has more HP bulk and more sturdy on the special side. One thing that gives the win of being a pivot to Decidueye though, is its ability Long Reach. Not only does it avoid burns from this menace 
, it also avoids Rocky Helmet damage. That's pretty big for something that wants to be healthy as long as possible, and why I think it's the better choice among the three Grass utility Pokemon along with other tools such as using Defog that can clear screens or Knock Off to remove items. However, if i had to rank it, it'd probably be the same rank as Brambleghast or maybe A-.
I'm keeping this brief for other sets, but among the attacking sets I've used, Band is what I found most success in. It sucks that it lost Poltergeist, but still does its job effectively with Leaf Blade, Spirit Shackle and Shadow Sneak. The only issue is that its slower than some Pokemon you want to threaten, but against walls it does fine in attacking. The only other physical Ghost is Mimikyu, but er. Mimikyu is Mimikyu. Sub-SDance is also good, Leaf Blade is a given while you can switch between Spirit Shackle and Shadow Sneak.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1840108295-928xnzubsgnrf09hzci9z6kubxwp46bpw small showcase! i accidentally cleared the doc where i saved most my replays but i have one left aha.
As for special sets like Specs and Nasty Plot, er... you'll end up thinking "why wouldn't i just use Gengar". Gengar does a much better job in being a special attacker, hell it even has Energy Ball. So it's not worth using Decidueye if you're looking for a ghost special attacker.
and that's all i have unfortunately, sorry this took so long my time really said "haha no". I still think that Decidueye fits nicely in the metagame, at least until new mons drop maybe!
Decidueye @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Long Reach
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Leaf Blade/Shadow Sneak/Knock Off
- Roost
- U-turn
Decidueye @ Choice Band
Ability: Long Reach
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- U-turn
- Shadow Sneak
- Spirit Shackle
Decidueye @ Choice Specs
Ability: Overgrow
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Giga Drain
- Leaf Storm
- Tera Blast
Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Substitute
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
Ability: Long Reach
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Leaf Blade/Shadow Sneak/Knock Off
- Roost
- U-turn
Decidueye @ Choice Band
Ability: Long Reach
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- U-turn
- Shadow Sneak
- Spirit Shackle
Decidueye @ Choice Specs
Ability: Overgrow
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Giga Drain
- Leaf Storm
- Tera Blast
Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Substitute
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
I've tried Utility and Choice Band the most, and I personally think those two are the best sets for Decidueye, moreso utility. Among our Grass-type Utility mons, Decidueye seems to fit the job just right. Defog, Roost, U-Turn, and any attacking move ranging from Leaf Blade and Shadow Sneak, to more utility in Knock Off. Personally statwise, compared to its other Grass/Ghost rival, Brambleghast
, Decidueye offers much more defensive utility than Brambleghast due to its ability to take hits easier. The only thing Decidueye is missing is its own hazards but I don't think it needs that.Comparing it to Tsareena
now, aside from the difference in typing where Decidueye makes a good spinblocker, their stats are almost similar. Tsareena has more power and equal defenses, while Decidueye has more HP bulk and more sturdy on the special side. One thing that gives the win of being a pivot to Decidueye though, is its ability Long Reach. Not only does it avoid burns from this menace , it also avoids Rocky Helmet damage. That's pretty big for something that wants to be healthy as long as possible, and why I think it's the better choice among the three Grass utility Pokemon along with other tools such as using Defog that can clear screens or Knock Off to remove items. However, if i had to rank it, it'd probably be the same rank as Brambleghast or maybe A-.I'm keeping this brief for other sets, but among the attacking sets I've used, Band is what I found most success in. It sucks that it lost Poltergeist, but still does its job effectively with Leaf Blade, Spirit Shackle and Shadow Sneak. The only issue is that its slower than some Pokemon you want to threaten, but against walls it does fine in attacking. The only other physical Ghost is Mimikyu, but er. Mimikyu is Mimikyu. Sub-SDance is also good, Leaf Blade is a given while you can switch between Spirit Shackle and Shadow Sneak.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1840108295-928xnzubsgnrf09hzci9z6kubxwp46bpw small showcase! i accidentally cleared the doc where i saved most my replays but i have one left aha.
As for special sets like Specs and Nasty Plot, er... you'll end up thinking "why wouldn't i just use Gengar". Gengar does a much better job in being a special attacker, hell it even has Energy Ball. So it's not worth using Decidueye if you're looking for a ghost special attacker.
and that's all i have unfortunately, sorry this took so long my time really said "haha no". I still think that Decidueye fits nicely in the metagame, at least until new mons drop maybe!
BULK UP QUAQUAVAL RESEARCH ACADEMY
I used it in this team (which I suggest to use with care because it didn't have good results), attempting to use Poison Touch Grafaiai to wear down Water immune Pokémon such as Gastrodon and using Spikes stack to help Quaquaval get going and sweep.I took a set from the metagame discussion and tried to make it the main focus/win condition of the team.
Quaquaval @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Steel / Flying
EVs: 200 HP / 16 Atk / 84 Def / 208 Spe
Impish Nature
- Aqua Step
- Bulk Up
- Roost
- Taunt
This set is a very solid Bulky Setup Sweeper. It is EV'd in order to outspeed Talonflame and anything below its speed tier at +1. The rest is put in HP in order to hit 361 and maximize Leftovers recovery while minimizing Stealth Rock damage, and in Defense in order to better deal with physical counterplay such as Quagsire, Gyarados, Scizor and Tauros forms. I decided to use mono-Water STAB after seeing it mentioned in the metagame discussion thread as other sets were already used for this RW. Bulk Up, Roost and Taunt allow this set to be a real nuisance for many teams that lack a Water immunity, as this set is able to bypass the aforementioned Unaware Quagsire, Gyarados, Tauros-Aqua, but also Iron Defense Slowbro and Scream Tail by negating the possibility to Toxic, setup alongside, access to Recovery or ability to Encore. I think the best Tera Types for the set are Steel (to outright beat non-flamethrower Slowbro) or Flying (to leave EQ Unaware Quag completely harmless and to smash Tauros forms) while retaining resistance to Grass without which Wo-Chien becomes an absolute wall to the set.
Bad Matchups:
& 
& 
This one is pretty self-explanatory. Mono-Water STAB simply cannot damage these Pokémon and while Quaquaval can Taunt them and not let them set up Hazard or Nasty Plot, it cannot damage them. Quagsire is the best of the three matchup, as if it is Physical it really struggles to damage Quaquaval and gets Taunted to death. Basically, teams with this set must focus around beating these Pokémon.
or 
depending on Tera
Sadly, many defensive answers for this set are beaten through Terastallization. The problem is that there are many possible defensive answers and different Teras are required for each. Tera Flying completely forfeits the Slowbro matchup, easily dropping to Ice Beam or Psychics, while Tera Steel sacrifices the matchup with Tauros, which is naturally faster, can Trailblaze and Bulk Up alongside when Quaval is not terastallized or simply hit with strong Fighting moves Steel variants.
& 
Dragon-Flying means danger. Quaquaval drops to Draco Meteor and Hurricanes, cannot really damage these Pokémon and cannot Tera to beat them as Flamethrower/Hurricane still deal massive damage before the duck really gets going.
Aqua Step is a dancing move, meaning Oricorio will always outspeed Quaquaval dancing alongside him and KOing easily through Revelation Dance.
& & any other special attacker that can hit it hard
This set is very good at damaging fat teams, but it otherwise struggles against stuff that can hit it where it cannot defend. It requires time to get going, and Aqua Steps hit really poorly until it got lots of boosts that simply cannot get when threatened hard.
Good Matchups:
& &
I know, these were in the Bad Matchups, but depending on the Tera type of the duck and on the ability of Quagsire, these actually become setup fodder! Iron Defense Slowbro gets taunted and cannot damage Tera Steel duck hard enough until it's too late, Psychic simply does no damage, Quagsire cannot Toxic and while it bypasses defense boosts, it does too little to not be fodder. Tauros lets Tera Flying roam around for free, becoming free setup fodder and getting taunted out of Bulk Up.
Terastallization turns what could be a counter in free setup fodder unless it carries Ruination. Taunt makes it impossible to Leech Seed, Substitute or Rest, whereas Terastallizing renders Giga Drain completely useless. Bulk Up makes Foul Play strong, but the Defense raise helps with that.
Gyarados has been used as Quaquaval stop on offensive teams, but if it switches into Aqua Step it cannot beat Quaval. Taunt stops it from DD, while the use of Bulk Up further and further reinforces the duck against Waterfalls, Earthquakes, and Tera Blast Flying.
Taunt shuts down Strength Sap and Shadow Ball is very weak. With the standard spread, Bramble cannot outspeed Quaquaval if the latter Aqua Steps to +6. Power Whip is still a physical move and bounces off Tera Steel or Flying.
Replays: (low quality, still a small demonstration of the possibilities of the set)Quaquaval @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Steel / Flying
EVs: 200 HP / 16 Atk / 84 Def / 208 Spe
Impish Nature
- Aqua Step
- Bulk Up
- Roost
- Taunt
This set is a very solid Bulky Setup Sweeper. It is EV'd in order to outspeed Talonflame and anything below its speed tier at +1. The rest is put in HP in order to hit 361 and maximize Leftovers recovery while minimizing Stealth Rock damage, and in Defense in order to better deal with physical counterplay such as Quagsire, Gyarados, Scizor and Tauros forms. I decided to use mono-Water STAB after seeing it mentioned in the metagame discussion thread as other sets were already used for this RW. Bulk Up, Roost and Taunt allow this set to be a real nuisance for many teams that lack a Water immunity, as this set is able to bypass the aforementioned Unaware Quagsire, Gyarados, Tauros-Aqua, but also Iron Defense Slowbro and Scream Tail by negating the possibility to Toxic, setup alongside, access to Recovery or ability to Encore. I think the best Tera Types for the set are Steel (to outright beat non-flamethrower Slowbro) or Flying (to leave EQ Unaware Quag completely harmless and to smash Tauros forms) while retaining resistance to Grass without which Wo-Chien becomes an absolute wall to the set.
Bad Matchups:
& & This one is pretty self-explanatory. Mono-Water STAB simply cannot damage these Pokémon and while Quaquaval can Taunt them and not let them set up Hazard or Nasty Plot, it cannot damage them. Quagsire is the best of the three matchup, as if it is Physical it really struggles to damage Quaquaval and gets Taunted to death. Basically, teams with this set must focus around beating these Pokémon.
or depending on TeraSadly, many defensive answers for this set are beaten through Terastallization. The problem is that there are many possible defensive answers and different Teras are required for each. Tera Flying completely forfeits the Slowbro matchup, easily dropping to Ice Beam or Psychics, while Tera Steel sacrifices the matchup with Tauros, which is naturally faster, can Trailblaze and Bulk Up alongside when Quaval is not terastallized or simply hit with strong Fighting moves Steel variants.
& Dragon-Flying means danger. Quaquaval drops to Draco Meteor and Hurricanes, cannot really damage these Pokémon and cannot Tera to beat them as Flamethrower/Hurricane still deal massive damage before the duck really gets going.
Aqua Step is a dancing move, meaning Oricorio will always outspeed Quaquaval dancing alongside him and KOing easily through Revelation Dance.
& & any other special attacker that can hit it hardThis set is very good at damaging fat teams, but it otherwise struggles against stuff that can hit it where it cannot defend. It requires time to get going, and Aqua Steps hit really poorly until it got lots of boosts that simply cannot get when threatened hard.
Good Matchups:
& & I know, these were in the Bad Matchups, but depending on the Tera type of the duck and on the ability of Quagsire, these actually become setup fodder! Iron Defense Slowbro gets taunted and cannot damage Tera Steel duck hard enough until it's too late, Psychic simply does no damage, Quagsire cannot Toxic and while it bypasses defense boosts, it does too little to not be fodder. Tauros lets Tera Flying roam around for free, becoming free setup fodder and getting taunted out of Bulk Up.
Terastallization turns what could be a counter in free setup fodder unless it carries Ruination. Taunt makes it impossible to Leech Seed, Substitute or Rest, whereas Terastallizing renders Giga Drain completely useless. Bulk Up makes Foul Play strong, but the Defense raise helps with that.
Gyarados has been used as Quaquaval stop on offensive teams, but if it switches into Aqua Step it cannot beat Quaval. Taunt stops it from DD, while the use of Bulk Up further and further reinforces the duck against Waterfalls, Earthquakes, and Tera Blast Flying.
Taunt shuts down Strength Sap and Shadow Ball is very weak. With the standard spread, Bramble cannot outspeed Quaquaval if the latter Aqua Steps to +6. Power Whip is still a physical move and bounces off Tera Steel or Flying.
Quaquaval vs Wo-Chien and Unaware Quag: low ladder battle, but Quaquaval gets going against the defensive core that should have beaten it in theory. The opponent recognizes Taunt sets mean that Wo-Chien likely does not have to worry about CC, but after Terastallization it becomes complete fodder. (I forgot the wrong ability lol)
The Gyarados matchup: My opponent is overreliant on Gyarados to check the duck when he has a Magnezone, but never goes into it fearing CC (I think). Still, Taunt forces Gyarados to spam unboosted EQ/Waterfall and to become complete fodder for Quaquaval to set up and sweep.
A Bad Matchup: Salamence, Magnezone and Tauros-Aqua on the opposing team? I know from team preview that my Quaquaval will not be of much use. Tinkaton, which is one of the preferred setup options for Quaquaval, has Thunder Wave, thus it is really impossible to get it going. It goes in, does a bit of damage to Tauros that forces it out, and then it is utilized as sac.
Overall Rating and Conclusions:I'm not really a believer in the Duck, in the sense that i think it is completely fine in the tier. I think it suffers from massive 4MSS and the tier is well equipped to not be helpless against it. However, it is still a very strong Pokémon in the A ranks for sure, probably A+. For what concerns this set in particular, i would think it's much more situational. I would give it a B/B+. Certain matchups are completely turned around and many opponents can be surprised with it, yet the main problem of it being mono Water STAB leaves it completely helpless against Water Absorb/Storm Drain pokémon (that are very common due to rain). Another problem is that it needs to invest a lot of EVs in Speed to outspeed Talonflame, leaving few to increase the bulk and thus making it impossible to be all-around strong enough to stomach hits from many offensive threats or to muscle past threats such as Magnezone or Iron Jugulis that easily live its hits and KO it back.
Sorry I was so late, I really had no time...
See you all next week!
Hello everyone! We're sorry about the delay from the last week but thanks to everyone who participated last week and we're going to get into week 6!
RESEARCH WEEK 6 POINTS DUMP:
+20 Points pomfpomfpluff - Highest Elo (10), Documented Findings (5), Exemplary Effort (5)
+15 Points DiannieRatson - Documented Findings (5), Exemplary Effort (5), Commentary (5)
+10 Points lavarina - Documented Findings (5), Exemplary Effort (5)
+10 Point Noxey - Documented Findings (5), Exemplary Effort (5)
Congratulations to DiannieRatson for rising the ranks in ★ The SV UU Research Academy ★ as Adjunct Faculty! (75+ cumulative points). We hope to see more participants join academy hierchy!
WEEK 5 WRAP:
Quaquaval turned out to be a solid choice, but nothing outstanding like originally thought based on its tools on paper. It's a very solid setup sweeper with Bulk Up, has Roost for recovery, and utility in taunt. It's signature move Aqua Step and it's ability Moxie allows for it to sweep in the correct situations. However it suffers from 4MSS and because of that depending on the coverage, or lack of it that Quaquaval decides to choose
Iron Leaves was broken. It was banned in the middle of the last week. Booster Energy was the most used set and the one that pushed Iron Leaves over the edge, and Choice Band was also used but the sweeper potential was too good.
Decidueye being our third addition due to the ban. The two sets tried were utility with Defog, and Choice Band. Compared to the other removers in Brambleghast and Tsareena, it makes a good spinblocker and bulkier than Brambleghast due to Roost and much better bulk. A solid remover when the tier needed a lot more of them. In terms of Band, it can do well enough with offensive presence but the overall opinion seems it to be better as utility than a main attacker.
Week 7
ALT CODE: SVUURW7(name)
For Week 7, we have selected our research subjects to be Cyclizar and Specs Armarogue!
Cyclizar! The newest drop after the ban of Shed Tail in OU. With Regenerator as its ability, incredible speed, Rapid Spin, Knock Off, U-turn, and plenty more utility. This speedy dragon certainly has a lot of hype around it but will it live up to everything it has in its toolset?
Armarouge is back after rising to OU and we wanted to look into it after the meta has changed so much from the last time it was here. We're going to test Choice Specs in particular due to the immense breaking power of its moves and coverage. Will it still hold up and how does Specs do in particular compared to its other set choices?
If you are unsure on how to write a report for research week, feel free to use this template as a base (NOTE: you DON'T have to use this template, it's only if you are unsure how to really get your report going):
In order to participate you must do the following:
Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SVUURW7 Mantis or SVUURW7 Popgoesthe ) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
Be sure to follow the instructions in the OP - use your words and your replays to really hammer the point home!
The goal is to get points through the 3 main events - The winner of the main event will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
This week will end on May 17th at 11:59 PM GMT-5. Have fun everyone!!
RESEARCH WEEK 6 POINTS DUMP:
+20 Points pomfpomfpluff - Highest Elo (10), Documented Findings (5), Exemplary Effort (5)
+15 Points DiannieRatson - Documented Findings (5), Exemplary Effort (5), Commentary (5)
+10 Points lavarina - Documented Findings (5), Exemplary Effort (5)
+10 Point Noxey - Documented Findings (5), Exemplary Effort (5)
Congratulations to DiannieRatson for rising the ranks in ★ The SV UU Research Academy ★ as Adjunct Faculty! (75+ cumulative points). We hope to see more participants join academy hierchy!
WEEK 5 WRAP:
Quaquaval turned out to be a solid choice, but nothing outstanding like originally thought based on its tools on paper. It's a very solid setup sweeper with Bulk Up, has Roost for recovery, and utility in taunt. It's signature move Aqua Step and it's ability Moxie allows for it to sweep in the correct situations. However it suffers from 4MSS and because of that depending on the coverage, or lack of it that Quaquaval decides to choose
Iron Leaves was broken. It was banned in the middle of the last week. Booster Energy was the most used set and the one that pushed Iron Leaves over the edge, and Choice Band was also used but the sweeper potential was too good.
Decidueye being our third addition due to the ban. The two sets tried were utility with Defog, and Choice Band. Compared to the other removers in Brambleghast and Tsareena, it makes a good spinblocker and bulkier than Brambleghast due to Roost and much better bulk. A solid remover when the tier needed a lot more of them. In terms of Band, it can do well enough with offensive presence but the overall opinion seems it to be better as utility than a main attacker.
Week 7
ALT CODE: SVUURW7(name)
Cyclizar
Ability:
-
-
-
-
Ability:
-
-
-
-
Cyclizar! The newest drop after the ban of Shed Tail in OU. With Regenerator as its ability, incredible speed, Rapid Spin, Knock Off, U-turn, and plenty more utility. This speedy dragon certainly has a lot of hype around it but will it live up to everything it has in its toolset?
Armarogue
Item: Choice Specs
Ability:
-
-
-
-
Item: Choice Specs
Ability:
-
-
-
-
Armarouge is back after rising to OU and we wanted to look into it after the meta has changed so much from the last time it was here. We're going to test Choice Specs in particular due to the immense breaking power of its moves and coverage. Will it still hold up and how does Specs do in particular compared to its other set choices?
If you are unsure on how to write a report for research week, feel free to use this template as a base (NOTE: you DON'T have to use this template, it's only if you are unsure how to really get your report going):
Code:
INTRO: (write a little blurb here, w/e you want)
:Orthworm:
SETS USED:
Orthworm @ z
Ability: Earth Eater
EVs: x
x Nature
-
-
-
-
(Any other sets used, list those too)
SUMMARY: (include good cores, good matchups, bad matchups, etc.)
NOTABLE REPLAYS:
(link) - (add commentary, such as: "See here how Orthworm shows it is the worm of the day")
(link) - (add commentary, e.g. "Here Orthworm fails to be anything more than escargot")
(more replays - put as many as are relevant!)
CONCLUSION: (final thoughts)
OVERALL RATING: (w/e you want, D through S is standard but you can use whatever scale you prefer)
-
:Lokix:
SETS USED:
Lokix @ z
Ability: x
EVs: x
x Nature
-
-
-
-
(Any other sets used, list those too)
SUMMARY: (include good cores, good matchups, bad matchups, etc.)
NOTABLE REPLAYS:
(link) - (add commentary, such as: "See here how Lokix ascends to the throne")
(link) - (add commentary, e.g. "Here Lokix has truly ran out of steam")
(more replays - put as many as are relevant!)
CONCLUSION: (final thoughts)
OVERALL RATING: (w/e you want, D through S is standard but you can use whatever scale you prefer)In order to participate you must do the following:
Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SVUURW7 Mantis or SVUURW7 Popgoesthe ) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
Be sure to follow the instructions in the OP - use your words and your replays to really hammer the point home!
The goal is to get points through the 3 main events - The winner of the main event will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
This week will end on May 17th at 11:59 PM GMT-5. Have fun everyone!!
A reminder to anyone participating that you DO NOT NEED to make an alt with the research tag to showcase replays with the featured mons, just know that you won't be eligible for the highest elo points if you do manage it.
So feel free to use any one of your UULT or Suspect test if you already made one!
So feel free to use any one of your UULT or Suspect test if you already made one!
Hello everyone! I'm here to announce the next Live Research Tour for the Research Academy.
This week we're going to be covering a part of Tera, the move Tera Blast. This turns into a stab move of the pokemon's preferred Tera type which can turn a pokemon from okay, to a super strong contender in a meta because of the coverage it can gain. So if this is removed from the equation, how much will that change?
This Live Research Tour will happen in the Pokemon Showdown UU room on Saturday, April 13th at 11 am GMT -5! We hope to see you all there.
This week we're going to be covering a part of Tera, the move Tera Blast. This turns into a stab move of the pokemon's preferred Tera type which can turn a pokemon from okay, to a super strong contender in a meta because of the coverage it can gain. So if this is removed from the equation, how much will that change?
This Live Research Tour will happen in the Pokemon Showdown UU room on Saturday, April 13th at 11 am GMT -5! We hope to see you all there.
SVUURW7 Diannie
Cyclizar and Specs Armarouge
INTRO: Ah Armarogue….a mon that I tend to misspell the name. Armarouge coming back to UU while Slowking is now up on OU is interesting while Cyclizar also just recently dropped because of Shed Tail ban. It’s nice to have Armarouge be paired with a utility mon like Cyclizar although they really aren’t a perfect pair. For this specific research, the Specs Armarouge set is tested while Cyclizar can have any sets. Starting off with the sets I’ve used as usual….
Specs Armarouge
SET USED:
Armarouge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Armor Cannon
- Focus Blast
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
SUMMARY: I only tried the set above to be honest. Armor Cannon and Psyshock are STAB moves that is a combination only resisted by opp Armarouge, Houndoom, Slowbro, Greninja, Tyranitar, and Zweilous (xD). Energy Ball actually could cover Slowbro and Greninja but Focus Blast is better versus Tyranitar still. Seems a perfect coverage already. What I learned in this research though is that Specs set is better versus Alomomola because of a calc that will be further explored in the replays below. Aside from that, its good match-up includes the likes of spinners like Forretress, resisted attack like from Bullet Punch Scizor, and maybe even predicted defog from Talonflame and Decidueye or versus Tinkaton. This makes hazard setters great teammates while it also appreciates removing rocks.
Cyclizar
SET USED:
Cyclizar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 72 SpD / 184 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Overheat
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn
SUMMARY: I also actually tried the draco meteor over overheat but realized having a super effective coverage move seems nice and besides, i only remember hitting draco meteor versus opposing Overheat Cyclizar….in which you wouldn’t switch Cyclizar in in front of Draco Meteor, right? xD. Overheat hits Forretress, a still common hazard setter in lower ladder fsr, Scizor, Wo-Chien, Tinkaton, and Slither Wing. You would always want Knock-off, Rapid Spin, and U-Turn in the set ig. U-turn serves as a fast pivot that also makes switching not lose much and also nice to reset the sp.atk drop from Draco Meteor/Overheat.
Before I give commentaries about my replays, it seems nice to start off with a competitive game in UUFPL where udon used specs armarouge and cyclizar in one team vs chaos.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-691297
It started with Hippowdon setting rocks and sandstorm. This lead to chaos getting decidueye in to defog but udon being aware of it switched armarouge in for free. Then, chaos switched into Alomomola and what a coincidence, Specs Armarouge with the help of chip damage from sand can 2hko Alomomola.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Armarouge Armor Cannon vs. 40 HP / 216 SpD Alomomola: 205-242 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
Turn 11, cyclizar is in to spin the rocks in front of talonflame in exchange of getting wisped.
Turn 16, armarouge clicked Focus Blast to ohko tyranitar thats trying to absorb a future sight from Slowbro.
Turn 21, armarouge come in vs talonflame brave bird proc’ing its weak armor ability. Psyshock was a good midground atk to click that cleaned up talonflame, decidueye, and chipped Sandy shocks to fall next turn vs a Scizor bullet punch.
NOTABLE REPLAYS:
Now onto my own replays xD
First blood cyclizar overheat t3 ohko forretress
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1863156266-wawxprvwqu0c0xruu1ec3yx8ct7oje5pw
Just a quick replay xD. Even opp Wo-Chien could be a target of Cyclizar’s Overheat. It will be tough for Armarouge to click Psychock coz of Ttar and Wo-Chien and only entry point I see for Weak Armor to proc here is unironically just vs Forretress….
Armarogue energy ball almost bait spin
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1863157649-36lvdtkwerlfymq0noxks362oln1b1vpw
Armarouge gets in with the help of Scizor’s slow pivot. Energy ball ohko greninja then when opp sent Gastrodon in, I should have known it would tera xD. I sent Armarouge in again vs donphan becoz i thought it would click spin.
Vs a 1200
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1863444512-udch2uc0iulsm27bfvvtn1r6mbqj98zpw
Here, Cyclizar clicked overheat vs Tinkaton but sadly, opp uses sd set. Then, Scizor broke opp Wo-Chien’s sub via U-turn that also pivot Armarouge in. Focus Blast can 2hko chansey but tough luck he has the rare Pallosand. Then the next time rouge is in, it clicked Armor Cannon instead and cleaned up opp Toedscruel.
Specs too strong for oricorio
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1864768843-rb6zq2gze43y9um0i3oadqg0vwjtq97pw
Another overheat moment with Cyclizar cleaning up opp Slither Wing. Then, Armarouge break an already +2 Oricorio Pom-pom and it fainted with the help of chip dmg from Sandstorm. Energy Ball took care of Slowbro and that’s it.
Armarogue
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1864775010-dw633r900gc2w4su9crwtui5gl4igeapw
Armarouge comes in vs tinkaton again and despite it tera’d to fairy, armor cannon KOed it.
Tink armarouge fodder + overheat cyclizar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1864879744-sjg3jbu0xhevghmf7a3s7aglu01fzvjpw
Just a win vs a 1200 tbh. Armarouge comes in vs tink as usual then cleaned up Slowbro and almost ohko Paldea-Tauros.
Vs 1300 spin fodder
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1864881325-iexuihdl806lo54kqve7d5pdc79lkzdpw
Another armarouge vs alomomola match-up…but since this is specs set, armarouge ohko alomomola with energy ball. That was an instant 6v5 advantage.
Armarogue sweep, cyclizar overheat forre
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1864886671-ghn4jq65lcvr951wledj348yi1qwycbpw
Another alomomola got ohkoed by Armarouge plus opponent has multiple mons weak to fire like Scizor, forretress, and Wo-Chien.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1863156266-wawxprvwqu0c0xruu1ec3yx8ct7oje5pw
Just a quick replay xD. Even opp Wo-Chien could be a target of Cyclizar’s Overheat. It will be tough for Armarouge to click Psychock coz of Ttar and Wo-Chien and only entry point I see for Weak Armor to proc here is unironically just vs Forretress….
Armarogue energy ball almost bait spin
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1863157649-36lvdtkwerlfymq0noxks362oln1b1vpw
Armarouge gets in with the help of Scizor’s slow pivot. Energy ball ohko greninja then when opp sent Gastrodon in, I should have known it would tera xD. I sent Armarouge in again vs donphan becoz i thought it would click spin.
Vs a 1200
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1863444512-udch2uc0iulsm27bfvvtn1r6mbqj98zpw
Here, Cyclizar clicked overheat vs Tinkaton but sadly, opp uses sd set. Then, Scizor broke opp Wo-Chien’s sub via U-turn that also pivot Armarouge in. Focus Blast can 2hko chansey but tough luck he has the rare Pallosand. Then the next time rouge is in, it clicked Armor Cannon instead and cleaned up opp Toedscruel.
Specs too strong for oricorio
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1864768843-rb6zq2gze43y9um0i3oadqg0vwjtq97pw
Another overheat moment with Cyclizar cleaning up opp Slither Wing. Then, Armarouge break an already +2 Oricorio Pom-pom and it fainted with the help of chip dmg from Sandstorm. Energy Ball took care of Slowbro and that’s it.
Armarogue
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1864775010-dw633r900gc2w4su9crwtui5gl4igeapw
Armarouge comes in vs tinkaton again and despite it tera’d to fairy, armor cannon KOed it.
Tink armarouge fodder + overheat cyclizar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1864879744-sjg3jbu0xhevghmf7a3s7aglu01fzvjpw
Just a win vs a 1200 tbh. Armarouge comes in vs tink as usual then cleaned up Slowbro and almost ohko Paldea-Tauros.
Vs 1300 spin fodder
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1864881325-iexuihdl806lo54kqve7d5pdc79lkzdpw
Another armarouge vs alomomola match-up…but since this is specs set, armarouge ohko alomomola with energy ball. That was an instant 6v5 advantage.
Armarogue sweep, cyclizar overheat forre
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1864886671-ghn4jq65lcvr951wledj348yi1qwycbpw
Another alomomola got ohkoed by Armarouge plus opponent has multiple mons weak to fire like Scizor, forretress, and Wo-Chien.
CONCLUSION:
Specs Armarouge has quite a competition with its other non-choice set options. Not being choice-locked is nice but it is also tricky to find an opportunity to safely click power boosting moves like Calm Mind. Although, its sp.atk stat is already top tier since it is only below Espeon and Gengar. Iron Defense + Stored Power set is also interesting. But yeah overall, I wouldn’t say choice specs is the best as it kinda underutilize the Weak Armor ability proc by switching out and the Flash Fire ability could be explored more but tbh, fire moves isn’t that common in UU so yeah.
As for Cyclizar, a spinner with access to Knock-off is nice to avoid being spinblocked. U-Turn might still be droppable but I’d say the standard is those three moves + 1 of either Draco Meteor and Overheat. Draco Meteor still has that STAB boost despite only being super effective versus opposing dragons like Salamence. Assault Vest item is also nice versus the likes of Gengar and Sandy Shocks w/o considering tera. It would also still be debatable if Heavy-Duty boots would be better as its main function as spinner.
OVERALL RATING:
Specs Armarouge: (A-) An A minus rating similar to what its place in the current VR is. It looks tough to deal with defensively since it can easily sweep teams but can be pressured offensively. It is not as fast as Gengar and needs to proc Weak Armor to help it outspeed most mons. Being choice-locked also means it will be kinda prediction-reliant despite Armor Cannon plus its high spatk could break most mons.
Cyclizar: (A-) I think it’s fair to conclude that Cyclizar is the tier’s best spinner. This is a subrank lower than what’s in the current VR because I think it is not as threatening as it seems and really just more of a utility mon despite its very high speed. You also need to put some investments to its bulk to utilize Assault Vest more. Regenerator is a great ability coupled with U-turn but offensively, it’s left with a single powerful move to threaten whatever is in front of it. Power Whip would also contest in that slot for the likes of ground-type setters. Also A rank has Quaquaval, not a dedicated spinner but it is also very threatening offensively which I would say better than Cyclizar despite this being a bad comparison.
Commentaries on other researcher's findings
Uhmm….It seems everyone is busy with the other UU community activities like suspect test and tours so….I’ll write commentary when others also posted theirs and will just edit this post xD. Looking forward to other researcher’s findings.
Last edited:
Hello everyone! After a some time and lots of new toys from June shifts, we're going to get into Week 8!!
RESEARCH WEEK 7 POINTS DUMP:
+20 Points DiannieRatson - Highest Elo (10), Documented Findings (5), Exemplary Effort (5)
WEEK 6 WRAP:
From what we learned, Armarouge is just as scary as it was previously. Its STAB options in Armor Cannon and Psyshock are powerful and its coverage makes it hard to switch into. However it can be easily pressured especially when it may want to attack or switch in. Flash Fire could be explored but Weak Armor overall seems like the better ability on Armarouge. A good mon still that has its place in UU.
Cyclizar however is an amazing addition. It is currently UU's best spinner with high speed, Knock Off, U-turn, and Regenerator so it can constantly keep itself healthy. However with this it doesn't threaten too much with its attacks and is more utility than something to threat other mons or be a revenge killer. Overall a great mon that's going to solidly stay UU due to all the reasons above.
Week 8
ALT CODE: SVUURW8(name)
For Week 8, we have selected our research subjects to be Iron Defense Chesnaught and Hisuian Zoroark!
Chesnaught is a familiar face returning from gen 7 after not appearing last generation. A Grass/Fighting type with good bulk, and new tools in Body Press to use its great bulk for attacking. With good matchups and Tera to help improve its typing, how will it be with these new tools in the current meta?
A long awaited pokemon that many were excited about. Zoroark but a better typing, and even more annoying with Illusion. Pokemons first Ghost/Normal type and fearsome to boot. What partners will be best use its illusion on and how will it preform overall?
If you are unsure on how to write a report for research week, feel free to use this template as a base (NOTE: you DON'T have to use this template, it's only if you are unsure how to really get your report going):
In order to participate you must do the following:
Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SVUURW8 Mantis or SVUURW8 Popgoesthe ) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
Be sure to follow the instructions in the OP - use your words and your replays to really hammer the point home!
The goal is to get points through the 3 main events - The winner of the main event will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
This week will end on June 20th at 11:59 PM GMT-5. Have fun everyone!!
RESEARCH WEEK 7 POINTS DUMP:
+20 Points DiannieRatson - Highest Elo (10), Documented Findings (5), Exemplary Effort (5)
WEEK 6 WRAP:
From what we learned, Armarouge is just as scary as it was previously. Its STAB options in Armor Cannon and Psyshock are powerful and its coverage makes it hard to switch into. However it can be easily pressured especially when it may want to attack or switch in. Flash Fire could be explored but Weak Armor overall seems like the better ability on Armarouge. A good mon still that has its place in UU.
Cyclizar however is an amazing addition. It is currently UU's best spinner with high speed, Knock Off, U-turn, and Regenerator so it can constantly keep itself healthy. However with this it doesn't threaten too much with its attacks and is more utility than something to threat other mons or be a revenge killer. Overall a great mon that's going to solidly stay UU due to all the reasons above.
Week 8
ALT CODE: SVUURW8(name)
Chesnaught
Item:
Ability:
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
-
-
Item:
Ability:
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
-
-
Chesnaught is a familiar face returning from gen 7 after not appearing last generation. A Grass/Fighting type with good bulk, and new tools in Body Press to use its great bulk for attacking. With good matchups and Tera to help improve its typing, how will it be with these new tools in the current meta?
Zoroark-Hisui
Item:
Ability: Illusion
-
-
-
-
Item:
Ability: Illusion
-
-
-
-
A long awaited pokemon that many were excited about. Zoroark but a better typing, and even more annoying with Illusion. Pokemons first Ghost/Normal type and fearsome to boot. What partners will be best use its illusion on and how will it preform overall?
If you are unsure on how to write a report for research week, feel free to use this template as a base (NOTE: you DON'T have to use this template, it's only if you are unsure how to really get your report going):
Code:
INTRO: (write a little blurb here, w/e you want)
:Orthworm:
SETS USED:
Orthworm @ z
Ability: Earth Eater
EVs: x
x Nature
-
-
-
-
(Any other sets used, list those too)
SUMMARY: (include good cores, good matchups, bad matchups, etc.)
NOTABLE REPLAYS:
(link) - (add commentary, such as: "See here how Orthworm shows it is the worm of the day")
(link) - (add commentary, e.g. "Here Orthworm fails to be anything more than escargot")
(more replays - put as many as are relevant!)
CONCLUSION: (final thoughts)
OVERALL RATING: (w/e you want, D through S is standard but you can use whatever scale you prefer)
-
:Lokix:
SETS USED:
Lokix @ z
Ability: x
EVs: x
x Nature
-
-
-
-
(Any other sets used, list those too)
SUMMARY: (include good cores, good matchups, bad matchups, etc.)
NOTABLE REPLAYS:
(link) - (add commentary, such as: "See here how Lokix ascends to the throne")
(link) - (add commentary, e.g. "Here Lokix has truly ran out of steam")
(more replays - put as many as are relevant!)
CONCLUSION: (final thoughts)
OVERALL RATING: (w/e you want, D through S is standard but you can use whatever scale you prefer)In order to participate you must do the following:
Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as SVUURW8 Mantis or SVUURW8 Popgoesthe ) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
Be sure to follow the instructions in the OP - use your words and your replays to really hammer the point home!
The goal is to get points through the 3 main events - The winner of the main event will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.
This week will end on June 20th at 11:59 PM GMT-5. Have fun everyone!!
SVUURW8 Diannie
Doing both Iron Defense Chesnaught and Zoroark-Hisui
~~I hope some more others participate actively in this great project...don't want to end up with no one to discuss xD~~
Specifically trying IDBP Spikes Synth Chesnaught set and Specs HZoro set (might try a few others but I don't have much idea for now)
Chesnaught and Hisuian Zoroark
INTRO: Finally another research week! I’ve been waiting for another week since I don’t ladder when there’s no research week xD. Although actually, I was kinda surprise that the metagame doesn’t changed a lot despite some initial drops. In these latest drops, SV UU got Chesnaught and Zoroark-Hisui. There will be way more drops next month I expect but it’s nice I got to see the transition of metagames. I heard Zoroark-Hisui is better Gengar and with Flamethrower, I noticed way too fewer Tinkatons now. Meanwhile, this week needs Iron Defense Chesnaught to explore on which is nice since I am kinda familiar with this playstyle already.
Iron Defense Chesnaught
SET USED:
Chesnaught @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Bulletproof
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Spikes
- Synthesis
SUMMARY: I only tried the set above to be honest. Iron Defense without Body press should work? It is suboptimal. I had few replays below where I’d rather Body Press than use something like Wood Hammer. This also makes the EV spread easier since I put the rest to SpD which makes it survive some special attacks too like from Dark types. Synthesis is here for longevity though I also saw some tried Leech Seed but that one is inconsistent and kinda requires to pair it with Spiky Shield. I also wanted to use Spikes in this set for hazards to help Zoroark-Hisui. Good match-ups I found for Chesnaught generally are the following in which it can switch into: Non ice beam gastrodon, wo-chien, cyclizar, gyarados,and toedscruel. This set is so bad versus Ghost types though. Unlike leech seed set, at least it can do something versus the likes of Gengar. I also tried Tera Grass at first but it seems fighting type is better for the resistances and not fire weakness. The team I use also has Gastrodon so I didn’t need Chesnaught as water-resist and also, I use Rocky Helmet since it is kinda a must due to the presence of Maushold.
SET USED:
Zoroark-Hisui @ Choice Specs
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Chesnaught checks Tyranitar that checks Zoroark-Hisui so looks like a nice pair for a team. But yeah that is what’s tricky with Chesnaught, Tyranitar can use flamethrower so I kinda appreciate tera fight more, Quaquaval can use Ice Spinner, and Pawmot’s Ice Punch. Otherwise, Chesnaught can check them.
NOTABLE REPLAYS:
Now onto my own replays (I only chose 12 replays this time don’t worry xD)
CONCLUSION:
Iron Defense Chesnaught can win games at preview or be a fodder for opponent’s Ghost type. Comparing this to other sets, I had more success with this set because despite its good base 107 atk, you might want to still put EV on that unless you just want a check to like Quagsire. This set also complements Chesnaught’s potential to be a physical blanket check plus a wincon. This set still scares Cyclizar and Wo-Chien so it doesn’t really feel the lack of Drain Punch.
As for Zoroark-Hisui, I know this might be a personal skill issue for me but I find Illusion not really that hard to distinguish in this metagame. In comparison to Gengar, you might want Zoroark-Hisui to went into the field midgame to fully utilize Illusion. But this means hzoro will get chipped. Gengar can be saved until late game. Another thing is that Gengar has base 130 spatk while Zoroark-Hisui has base 125. Not much of a diff ig but most of the arguments with Hzoro being better is flamethrower and the ability Illusion. Both has two STAB typing but based on my experience, I feel Hyper Voice is more spammable than let’s say shadow ball and sludge bomb. Access to U-Turn is also nice (disguising as Iron Jugulis xD and has access to Dark Pulse too).
OVERALL RATING:
Iron Defense Chesnaught: (B+) Chesnaught is currently ranked B but I feel like Chesnaught’s ceiling can warrant it even an A minus rating. I put just B+ because it is really just seems a deadweight when opp has Ghost types. But despite that, Gengar choice-locked in sludge bomb or shadow ball can help Chesnaught to set Spikes. Being able to scare Cyclizar and Wo-chien is just that important for me compared to its weaknesses.
Zoroark-Hisui: (A) I agree on its current place in the VR. It is the best ghost type right now and being a normal type that can make teambuilding tricky since this mon demands a normal-resist that is also quite bulky in special side. Despite the 4MSS issue, it seems fine with just 3 atks set and still perform consistently.
Commentaries on other researcher's findings
Uhmm….It seems everyone is busy with the other UU community activities so….I’ll write commentary when others also posted theirs and will just edit this post xD.
Looking forward to other researcher’s findings.
Doing both Iron Defense Chesnaught and Zoroark-Hisui
Specifically trying IDBP Spikes Synth Chesnaught set and Specs HZoro set (might try a few others but I don't have much idea for now)
Chesnaught and Hisuian Zoroark
INTRO: Finally another research week! I’ve been waiting for another week since I don’t ladder when there’s no research week xD. Although actually, I was kinda surprise that the metagame doesn’t changed a lot despite some initial drops. In these latest drops, SV UU got Chesnaught and Zoroark-Hisui. There will be way more drops next month I expect but it’s nice I got to see the transition of metagames. I heard Zoroark-Hisui is better Gengar and with Flamethrower, I noticed way too fewer Tinkatons now. Meanwhile, this week needs Iron Defense Chesnaught to explore on which is nice since I am kinda familiar with this playstyle already.
Iron Defense Chesnaught
SET USED:
Chesnaught @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Bulletproof
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Spikes
- Synthesis
SUMMARY: I only tried the set above to be honest. Iron Defense without Body press should work? It is suboptimal. I had few replays below where I’d rather Body Press than use something like Wood Hammer. This also makes the EV spread easier since I put the rest to SpD which makes it survive some special attacks too like from Dark types. Synthesis is here for longevity though I also saw some tried Leech Seed but that one is inconsistent and kinda requires to pair it with Spiky Shield. I also wanted to use Spikes in this set for hazards to help Zoroark-Hisui. Good match-ups I found for Chesnaught generally are the following in which it can switch into: Non ice beam gastrodon, wo-chien, cyclizar, gyarados,and toedscruel. This set is so bad versus Ghost types though. Unlike leech seed set, at least it can do something versus the likes of Gengar. I also tried Tera Grass at first but it seems fighting type is better for the resistances and not fire weakness. The team I use also has Gastrodon so I didn’t need Chesnaught as water-resist and also, I use Rocky Helmet since it is kinda a must due to the presence of Maushold.
SET USED:
Zoroark-Hisui @ Choice Specs
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
Chesnaught checks Tyranitar that checks Zoroark-Hisui so looks like a nice pair for a team. But yeah that is what’s tricky with Chesnaught, Tyranitar can use flamethrower so I kinda appreciate tera fight more, Quaquaval can use Ice Spinner, and Pawmot’s Ice Punch. Otherwise, Chesnaught can check them.
NOTABLE REPLAYS:
Now onto my own replays (I only chose 12 replays this time don’t worry xD)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887017687-ra8pekbypbt4ptgnocx77fik97bdxe0pw
Turn4, hzoro comes in as iron jugulis vs chesnaught free switch. Specs flamethrower only did 71% and opp ches managed to land leech seed and thus survived w/ spiky shield too. Chesnaught comes in vs opp cyclizar but then opp Gengar walls this idbp spikes synth set. Opp Chesnaught walls my Gastrodon non-ice beam set. Opp chesnaught was really a menace. Banded scizor only dealt 51% dmg with close combat and that ches is also lefties. Chesnaught is immune to sbomb
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887061044-iy7if8xtg2qitgomzqgfwshdtrurv6jpw
Chesnaught comes in vs wo-chien. This was kinda a misplay from opp so not much to see here. Macro-wise though, i just needed bronzong and gengar out so hzoro can spam Hyper Voice. This happened turn 29.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887067515-vbq902unpaluw7q1z79jx1a24rzze06pw
The only thing I noted here is that Bisharp’s sucker punch ohko hisui zoroark
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887069688-et8nc54h5obgfqea3urtuo8uzb1d0xkpw
This made me realize I needed a slow pivot for hisui zoroark
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887072098-wgzas45cbc63kahs3zaf8n8eox339vvpw
Rematch vs eduardo but still a ladder game. I had a hard time piloting hisui zoroark in. My slow pivot is Scizor but it seems they do not synergize like that since the things that checks Scizor seems not the one where Hisui-Zoroark wants to come in.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887199876-oqkqxa0kfml5x9ify38igckpw93k6umpw
Chesnaught comes in vs Sandy Shocks (I still need to be wary of Tera Ice though). My opp forfeited fsr when Chesnaught only had +2 def.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887203840-74mfqwaarvr7f172ewnofz3lgn642z7pw
I’m 1200 again… Fsr Chesnaught won me this game again as my opp let me set +6 ID and opp Chesnaught was leech seed so this is the advantage of using synth ig.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887206292-xc5yutuhtswf66nesxpxhi5avjr4vbtpw
First Peak in ladder this week. I almost choke the lead when I made sub-optimal plays in the endgame. This was when I learned Tyranitar is problematic for hzoro which makes Focus Blast a must consider in its set.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887210343-gqkcssu751mio21dvfgqn9smql7d75bpw
Lost. Chesnaught comes in vs Gyarados. I got outplayed macro-wise. I think my mistake here was being impatient and forced to switch hzoro too early.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887532623-iwj9lw91lmmq6jhmb2b2o58ksofb2kfpw
Swept by cloyster lol. Chesnaught comes in vs toedscruel. Cloyster used my gastrodon as set-up fodder. In this game, I needed Scizor to be healthy enough to live an ice shard +2 but nah I got outplayed micro-wise again.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887536209-slqqplfowq7swudwlzqgck4jtn2w8urpw
Won vs a 1300. I think rocky helmet chesnaught won me this xD. Chesnaught is immune to shadow ball is what another thing I learned. My team is also not that fast so I needed opp Talonflame out.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887542525-3zbjy13wld9jdfuin169dwjp1bctq92pw
New peak. Last replay for this week. Chesnaught was para’d by opp Chansey but this makes Chesnaught immune to Quagsire’s toxic so i used that opportunity to set-up. I don’t care about Unaware but opp Quag can’t also dmg chesnaught much. Maybe opp could have pp stalled my synth. But anyways, my hzoro was in a good position to end the game.
Turn4, hzoro comes in as iron jugulis vs chesnaught free switch. Specs flamethrower only did 71% and opp ches managed to land leech seed and thus survived w/ spiky shield too. Chesnaught comes in vs opp cyclizar but then opp Gengar walls this idbp spikes synth set. Opp Chesnaught walls my Gastrodon non-ice beam set. Opp chesnaught was really a menace. Banded scizor only dealt 51% dmg with close combat and that ches is also lefties. Chesnaught is immune to sbomb
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887061044-iy7if8xtg2qitgomzqgfwshdtrurv6jpw
Chesnaught comes in vs wo-chien. This was kinda a misplay from opp so not much to see here. Macro-wise though, i just needed bronzong and gengar out so hzoro can spam Hyper Voice. This happened turn 29.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887067515-vbq902unpaluw7q1z79jx1a24rzze06pw
The only thing I noted here is that Bisharp’s sucker punch ohko hisui zoroark
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887069688-et8nc54h5obgfqea3urtuo8uzb1d0xkpw
This made me realize I needed a slow pivot for hisui zoroark
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887072098-wgzas45cbc63kahs3zaf8n8eox339vvpw
Rematch vs eduardo but still a ladder game. I had a hard time piloting hisui zoroark in. My slow pivot is Scizor but it seems they do not synergize like that since the things that checks Scizor seems not the one where Hisui-Zoroark wants to come in.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887199876-oqkqxa0kfml5x9ify38igckpw93k6umpw
Chesnaught comes in vs Sandy Shocks (I still need to be wary of Tera Ice though). My opp forfeited fsr when Chesnaught only had +2 def.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887203840-74mfqwaarvr7f172ewnofz3lgn642z7pw
I’m 1200 again… Fsr Chesnaught won me this game again as my opp let me set +6 ID and opp Chesnaught was leech seed so this is the advantage of using synth ig.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887206292-xc5yutuhtswf66nesxpxhi5avjr4vbtpw
First Peak in ladder this week. I almost choke the lead when I made sub-optimal plays in the endgame. This was when I learned Tyranitar is problematic for hzoro which makes Focus Blast a must consider in its set.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887210343-gqkcssu751mio21dvfgqn9smql7d75bpw
Lost. Chesnaught comes in vs Gyarados. I got outplayed macro-wise. I think my mistake here was being impatient and forced to switch hzoro too early.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887532623-iwj9lw91lmmq6jhmb2b2o58ksofb2kfpw
Swept by cloyster lol. Chesnaught comes in vs toedscruel. Cloyster used my gastrodon as set-up fodder. In this game, I needed Scizor to be healthy enough to live an ice shard +2 but nah I got outplayed micro-wise again.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887536209-slqqplfowq7swudwlzqgck4jtn2w8urpw
Won vs a 1300. I think rocky helmet chesnaught won me this xD. Chesnaught is immune to shadow ball is what another thing I learned. My team is also not that fast so I needed opp Talonflame out.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1887542525-3zbjy13wld9jdfuin169dwjp1bctq92pw
New peak. Last replay for this week. Chesnaught was para’d by opp Chansey but this makes Chesnaught immune to Quagsire’s toxic so i used that opportunity to set-up. I don’t care about Unaware but opp Quag can’t also dmg chesnaught much. Maybe opp could have pp stalled my synth. But anyways, my hzoro was in a good position to end the game.
CONCLUSION:
Iron Defense Chesnaught can win games at preview or be a fodder for opponent’s Ghost type. Comparing this to other sets, I had more success with this set because despite its good base 107 atk, you might want to still put EV on that unless you just want a check to like Quagsire. This set also complements Chesnaught’s potential to be a physical blanket check plus a wincon. This set still scares Cyclizar and Wo-Chien so it doesn’t really feel the lack of Drain Punch.
As for Zoroark-Hisui, I know this might be a personal skill issue for me but I find Illusion not really that hard to distinguish in this metagame. In comparison to Gengar, you might want Zoroark-Hisui to went into the field midgame to fully utilize Illusion. But this means hzoro will get chipped. Gengar can be saved until late game. Another thing is that Gengar has base 130 spatk while Zoroark-Hisui has base 125. Not much of a diff ig but most of the arguments with Hzoro being better is flamethrower and the ability Illusion. Both has two STAB typing but based on my experience, I feel Hyper Voice is more spammable than let’s say shadow ball and sludge bomb. Access to U-Turn is also nice (disguising as Iron Jugulis xD and has access to Dark Pulse too).
OVERALL RATING:
Iron Defense Chesnaught: (B+) Chesnaught is currently ranked B but I feel like Chesnaught’s ceiling can warrant it even an A minus rating. I put just B+ because it is really just seems a deadweight when opp has Ghost types. But despite that, Gengar choice-locked in sludge bomb or shadow ball can help Chesnaught to set Spikes. Being able to scare Cyclizar and Wo-chien is just that important for me compared to its weaknesses.
Zoroark-Hisui: (A) I agree on its current place in the VR. It is the best ghost type right now and being a normal type that can make teambuilding tricky since this mon demands a normal-resist that is also quite bulky in special side. Despite the 4MSS issue, it seems fine with just 3 atks set and still perform consistently.
Commentaries on other researcher's findings
Uhmm….It seems everyone is busy with the other UU community activities so….I’ll write commentary when others also posted theirs and will just edit this post xD.
Looking forward to other researcher’s findings.
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ill prob start with chesnaught
SVUURW8 Drei (dont steal my account )
https://pokepast.es/2ad19f407f49d844 (team used)
initial impressions
- it is good into many physical attackers such as quav, pawmot (without ice punch predict on switch), banded ttar, lycanroc-d, slither wing, brute bonnet, tauros, etc
- With Iron defense it is able to just be able to wall mons and be able to setup on them and do a lot of damage. (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1889253622-3he0169dj9bdcdbhhoco8q0wy71egpkpw replay shows how it can just sit on smth like quav and turn it into its advantage)
- Rough MU into sub gar (with moves to hit it), espeon (litterally screws it over 100%), hawlucha (esp taunt variants), armarogue and generally pokemon that can just abuse its initial passivity or can abuse its weak sp. def
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1889249260-0hw0ux4d37qux5vum63z6ln8ckhp6odpw this replay shows how it can sit on smth like gengar and just abuse it with spikes esp scarf variants without the correct coverage.
- Poor sp. def and exploitable weaknesses means that it can generally be hard to come in sometimes and while its typing is a bit awkward i like it as a spiker that can threaten cyclizar and gives 2 shits besides anything like overheat or LO draco.
- Has excellent MU into cyclizar as a spiker compared to smth like sandy shocks, quagsire, or gastrodon which means against such teams it can keep spikes easily tho it sucks into decid, bramble, ghost tera removals.
- syntheisis into hippo kinda sucks and makes u not want to face the MU a lot
I say its around B+/A- (ill comment more, i just have exams lately and tired)
SVUURW8 Drei (dont steal my account )
https://pokepast.es/2ad19f407f49d844 (team used)
initial impressions
- it is good into many physical attackers such as quav, pawmot (without ice punch predict on switch), banded ttar, lycanroc-d, slither wing, brute bonnet, tauros, etc
- With Iron defense it is able to just be able to wall mons and be able to setup on them and do a lot of damage. (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1889253622-3he0169dj9bdcdbhhoco8q0wy71egpkpw replay shows how it can just sit on smth like quav and turn it into its advantage)
- Rough MU into sub gar (with moves to hit it), espeon (litterally screws it over 100%), hawlucha (esp taunt variants), armarogue and generally pokemon that can just abuse its initial passivity or can abuse its weak sp. def
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1889249260-0hw0ux4d37qux5vum63z6ln8ckhp6odpw this replay shows how it can sit on smth like gengar and just abuse it with spikes esp scarf variants without the correct coverage.
- Poor sp. def and exploitable weaknesses means that it can generally be hard to come in sometimes and while its typing is a bit awkward i like it as a spiker that can threaten cyclizar and gives 2 shits besides anything like overheat or LO draco.
- Has excellent MU into cyclizar as a spiker compared to smth like sandy shocks, quagsire, or gastrodon which means against such teams it can keep spikes easily tho it sucks into decid, bramble, ghost tera removals.
- syntheisis into hippo kinda sucks and makes u not want to face the MU a lot
I say its around B+/A- (ill comment more, i just have exams lately and tired)
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h-lilligant research week when
while i wasnt the most active i feel its a good way to get a feel at certain underated mons
while i wasnt the most active i feel its a good way to get a feel at certain underated mons
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Yeah. I hope this project continues. Maybe after Ceruledge has been decided we can have a new research week