The Fire Type in Little Cup

[Electrolyte]

I've been testing GROWTH / FLAME CHARGE NUMEL IN SUN with Special Attacks and it's a decent attacker that is usually able to remove one opponent. Growth in Sun gives it +4 offenses instead of just +2, and turns it into an offensive powerhouse. The only real problem with Numel is that it requires multiple turns to set up and is relatively frail, meaning that Numel will probably be easily revenge killed by priority after it sets up and takes out an opponent. I've tried Eviolite and Berry Juice; with Berry Juice it lasts longer against weaker attackers but can be one shotted easily, so Eviolite is definitely the better choice. Still, +2 Spe / +4 SpAtk / +4 Atk Numel is fun to play with if it doesn't die :)

But seriously it is literally so powerful under the Sun... nothing in LC escapes a 2HKO from Sun boosted +4 Eviolite Fire Blast, and literally only Wooper and Munchlax will always escape the OHKO after Stealth Rock. (Both are outsped and 2HKO'd anyway) That is insane.
(also fk Fire Blast misses omg)

I mean serious look at how fucking legit this thing is it will rip your team to shreds


Next stop, Mono Fire Sun- Vulpix / Numel / Passing Torchic = ftw

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Wow. Simple Numel with Growth combined with the return of Drought in LC sounds really phenomenal.

But seriously it is literally so powerful under the Sun... nothing in LC escapes a 2HKO from Sun boosted +4 Eviolite Fire Blast, and literally only Wooper and Munchlax will always escape the OHKO after Stealth Rock. (Both are outsped and 2HKO'd anyway) That is insane.
(also fk Fire Blast misses omg)

I mean serious look at how fucking legit this thing is it will rip your team to shreds


Next stop, Mono Fire Sun- Vulpix / Numel / Passing Torchic = ftw

How does Mantyke fare against this Numel set?

It's immune to Ground and I'm pretty sure it can take boosted Fire Blasts with its incredible special bulk, and hit back for an easy OHKO with a Water move. It's also a decent user of manual Rain who can take advantage of it well with its Speed doubled by Swift Swim and its Water attacks boosted even further than STAB. Just an idea!

 

[kingmidas]

Wow. Simple Numel with Growth combined with the return of Drought in LC sounds really phenomenal.




How does Mantyke fare against this Numel set?

It's immune to Ground and I'm pretty sure it can take boosted Fire Blasts with its incredible special bulk, and hit back for an easy OHKO with a Water move. It's also a decent user of manual Rain who can take advantage of it well with its Speed doubled by Swift Swim and its Water attacks boosted even further than STAB. Just an idea!

You just brought up probably one of the best sun answers possible in mantyke, it can easily just come in on vulpix set up rain and fuck up everything until vulpix, where the chain starts back. It also can set-up on numel as you said, which if it really does get popular, will be a great option against it.

 

[Electrolyte]

Mantyke is good as ded. Modest 240 SpA Eviolite Numel will definitely beat Mantyke 1 v 1 as long as it has +4 before Mantyke switches in. Sun boosted +4 Flame Charge + Fire Blast easily OHKOs 156 / 116 Bold Eviolite Mantyke all but 5.8% of the time.

Calculations

(Flame Charge has 15/16 chance deal 6 damage and 1/16 chance deal 7 damage; Fire blast has 1/16 chance deal 16 damage and 15/16 deal more than 16 damage. +4 Flame Charge will always do at least 6, so you know that as long as Fire Blast does more than 16 damage (Mantyke has 23 HP) 15/16 times Numel will OHKO with the combo. Then, you have the 1/16 chance Fire Blast deals only 16 damage, but remember than Flame Charge has a 1/16 chance of covering up with max damage so you still KO. In the end, it's 15/(16^2) chance of happening. Yay for math.)

Keep in mind that with Stealth Rock up Mantyke will be OHKO'd 75% of the time against Sun boosted max SpA Fire Blast.

If you don't run Eviolite Manytke is easily OHKO'd 100% of the time by just Sun boosted +4 Fire Blast.

based Numel will not be stopped by anything

Speaking of Mantyke countering Sun- it's a good idea but Sun teams usually carry like a Tangela which can easily wear down Mantyke with repeated Solarbeams / Ancient Powers (Modest Eviolite Solarbeam can even 2HKO but it's a very small chance) Mantyke is also really weak to Stealth Rock, which a teammate can obviously cover but Defoggers (mainly Gligar) and Spinners (Drilbur / Anorith / Staryu) are all also weak to Tangela, so it's a solid option but does have its risky points.

The best way to beat Sun in my opinion is with Poison-types. They wall Tangela and can apply steady offensive pressure against Sun teams. Their natural bulk is also helpful in sponging attacks and stalling out the Sun turns. Stealth Rock is a must when it comes to beating Sun; the target in focus should be Vulpix, who provides Tangela with the overpowering power that it has. Sneasel is pretty good at this; its Ice Shard can threaten weakened Tangela and its LO Knock Off OHKOs defense lacking Vulpix, but be wary that Sun teams (and all teams in general at this point) usually do carry a Sneasel counter.

tldr Sun is powerful as fuck and should be countered carefully.

 

[Heysup]

I think if Mantyke gets popular against (MY) Numel+Vulpix combo (that I thought of and tested first and before any of these pretenders) it would probably just run Rock Slide. Also I use Tangela which rounds the combo out very well - resists Ground and Water and ALSO has Growth.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Mantyke is good as ded. Modest 240 SpA Eviolite Numel will definitely beat Mantyke 1 v 1 as long as it has +4 before Mantyke switches in. Sun boosted +4 Flame Charge + Fire Blast easily OHKOs 156 / 116 Bold Eviolite Mantyke all but 5.8% of the time.

You're saying it can beat Mantyke if the opponent allows you to:

1. Get up Sun
2. Get in Numel
3. Get up boosts from Flame Charge/Growth
4. Keep Sun up

As if a competent player is going to give you that many turns to yourself without bringing in Mantyke pretty much instantly. There's a ton of Pokemon that can wreck absolutely if given the amount of turns they need to reach a threat-level, but the fact is it's way too hard to survive while taking all the time to setup, before they can actually do anything. This is definitely a fun idea that can be very potent if you happen to get it all together, but honestly it requires way too much support and a lot of successful free turns to be able to make this work. Numel has Yawn to be able to entice a switch to allow for a setup opportunity, but then you're pretty crammed for moveslots. Realistically speaking, I'm pretty sure Mantyke will come in before Numel is allowed to reach that level of dangerous.

 

[Heysup]

I mean, "realistically speaking" Mantyke is never seriously used......if it was, Numel has moves to get by it. This is a bit of an extreme example to be talking about...

 

[n3ther]

An opposing team's Tangela can come in and revenge kill Numel even if it impossibly managed to get 2 speed boosts. Like Briyella said above, you are never going to set up rocks, sun, growth, AND 2 flame charges on Numel. Is your opponent attacking you with tackle? Also Mantyke shouldn't switch into Tangela. +4 boost is insane but Numel is just too slow.
I think the same setup would actually be scarier in a trick room team. Out-sped by less, you can invest into bulk instead of speed, and drop Flame Charge. Not sure if trick room is viable in LC.

 

[Heysup]

An opposing team's Tangela can come in and revenge kill Numel even if it impossibly managed to get 2 speed boosts. Like Briyella said above, you are never going to set up rocks, sun, growth, AND 2 flame charges on Numel. Is your opponent attacking you with tackle? Also Mantyke shouldn't switch into Tangela. +4 boost is insane but Numel is just too slow.
I think the same setup would actually be scarier in a trick room team. Out-sped by less, you can invest into bulk instead of speed, and drop Flame Charge. Not sure if trick room is viable in LC.

1) if an opposing team is using Tangela without Vulpix they are not using Chlorophyll. Regenerator is one of the best abilities in the entire game and would work better in 999/1000 other circumstances.
2) You don't need 2 Flame Charges, Simple is simply amazing.
3) As far as I know, there are no auto Trick room Pokemon like there are auto sun (Vulpix).

 

[Chieliee]

don't diss mantyke omg it's amazing

about mantyke countering sun teams: it can come in on Vulpix for free, set up Rain Dance, and wreck fire and grass types with it's dual stab. it's not just a defensive counter to sun, but moreso an offensive threat to sun.

i need to make this post useful now

oh yea scarf vulpix is p great, sun boosted fire blast takes a big chunk out of a lot of stuff not named munchlax, quad fire resist, (and mantyke!)

 

[snowcrow]

ive been getting good use out of Growlithe this gen with Flare Blitz wild change morning sun Close Combat