Tapu Koko Discussion

Wouldn't Z-Natures Madness be good on this? With such a high speed any "counter" switching in isn't going to like having 75% of it's health removed, especially since Tapu Koko could possibly still do 25% plus damage to them.
It doesn't sound awful, except for the fact that you forgo your item. That seems to be the biggest issue with Z-Moves, for mose 'Mons tbh. If the item loss doesn't end up being that big of a setback, I could see it finding places on some teams, as a lure of some kind.

I guess it would work in a similar fashion to LureTran. A one-time item+move combination to remove a specific 'Mon. Seems alright in specific situations.
 

AccidentalGreed

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Wouldn't Z-Natures Madness be good on this? With such a high speed any "counter" switching in isn't going to like having 75% of it's health removed, especially since Tapu Koko could possibly still do 25% plus damage to them.
Not really because counters are usually zapped by repeated Thunderbolts, Volt Switches/U-turns, Dazzling Gleams, and Hidden Power Ices. Koko really wants that Life Orb or Zap Plate boost or it's not hitting as hard as it should (it's only hitting as hard as...Life Orb Electivire with only its electric moves, for example). Defensive counters making obvious attempts to recover can be Taunted or switched out of. For the most part it only really works against defensive teams since you can quickly whittle down offensive teams.

So you can save that shiny Z-crystal for something that makes better use of it.
 
Not really because counters are usually zapped by repeated Thunderbolts, Volt Switches/U-turns, Dazzling Gleams, and Hidden Power Ices. Koko really wants that Life Orb or Zap Plate boost or it's not hitting as hard as it should (it's only hitting as hard as...Life Orb Electivire with only its electric moves, for example). Defensive counters making obvious attempts to recover can be Taunted or switched out of. For the most part it only really works against defensive teams since you can quickly whittle down offensive teams.

So you can save that shiny Z-crystal for something that makes better use of it.
I mostly agree, but it'll surely see some splash, if Heatran ran Herb+Solarbeam for only Rotom-W lol.

On another note, I haven't seen much use for "saving" the Z-Crystal. I can't think of many one-time moves being worth forgoing an item for... Although it is entirely possible that I haven't been thinking about it very hard...
 
I mostly agree, but it'll surely see some splash, if Heatran ran Herb+Solarbeam for only Rotom-W lol.

On another note, I haven't seen much use for "saving" the Z-Crystal. I can't think of many one-time moves being worth forgoing an item for... Although it is entirely possible that I haven't been thinking about it very hard...
Well, you could use a support, or stat raising z move for example. Yeah, you dealt good damage and fainted a mon. But sometimes that may not matter if they switch in a low health fodder on your guardian smash.
 
Foregoing an item isn't that bad. Items like Custap and similar berries see situational useage and they only work once. But chunking something for 75% hp at the cost of an item when he already can use a Super Fang clone just makes it seem like a waste.
 
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Foregoing an item isn't that bad. Items like Custap and similar berries see situational useage and they only work once. But chunking something for 75% hp at the cost of an item when he already can same a Super Fang clone just makes it seem like a waste.
It would have to be quite specific, ergo something like this (where Manectric is 95 base SpAtk Koko):

252 SpA Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 122-144 (29 - 34.2%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

EDIT: You would need Rocks I believe, if factoring in Lefties, but the general idea remains intact I believe :P
 

Pikachu315111

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Speedy attacker, more on the physical side though Special Attack isn't that bad (which is good as it doesn't get a physical Fairy-type move, so you either got to play mix or deal with no Fairy STAB). Also has enough defense to at least take a hit (probably cutting it close with a super effective hit though). And I guess if you aren't banking on Electric Surge having Telepathy to ignore ally Earthquakes is okay.

Since Nature's Madness removes 50% of the target's current HP I'm going to consider it a utility, a move for when Koko doesn't have something else that can seriously hurt its opponent (I wouldn't be surprised if many sets exclude it). Of course that means its only Physical STAB is Wild Charge (why doesn't it get Thunder Punch?). Other Physical moves it gets is Return, Brave Bird/Aerial Ace/Acrobatics, Steel Wing... and that's it. Wow, um, I guess a mixed set it is then.
Special side offers plenty of STAB options (well, for Electric, Fairy only has Dazzling Gleam; no Moonblast)... and that's it...
Well what it lacks in attacking options it can make up in utilities. Electric Terrain, Power Swap, Mean Look, Mirror Move (because at this point your opponents moves is your coverage), dual screens, Roost, and Volt Switch/U-turn. So should be interesting to see sets for this Tapu.
 
Still super impressed with how customizable this thing is, there are just so many routes to go. It's definitely my favorite pokemon from this generation, both design-wise and competitively. Here's a basic framework:

Tapu Koko@Life Orb
Naive; 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Electric Surge

Thunderbolt / Wild Charge
HP Ice / Grass Knot
Brave Bird / Dazzling Gleam
U-turn / Calm Mind / Work Up

Naive nature and Life Orb I think will be mandatory, though there is a case for Expert Belt or Zap Plate. You can literally do no wrong as the only thing KoKo needs is electric STAB - cool features follow:
  • Thunderbolt is preferable here due to the lack of recoil and perfect accuracy. It has a 68% chance to 2HKO SpD Heatran after rocks and leftovers, which is quite a feat for a neutral move and gives you an idea of its power.
  • Wild Charge with 184 Atk EVs (a commitment to a physical slant and possibly Work-Up, I know) does cool things like OHKO SpD Heatran, SpD Jirachi, and BandTar at +1. It would best be used in conjunction with Brave Bird to hit the bulky grasses that shut this down.
  • HP Ice is good coverage for Lando-T, Gliscor, and Garchomp - it only requires 44 SpA EVs at +1 for the OHKO and obviously cleanly 2HKOs otherwise.
  • Grass Knot is notable for hits on Mixed wall Hippowdon, Unaware Quagsire, and Mega Swampert if you're worried about those.
  • Brave Bird is really only notable alongside Wild Charge for coverage on Amoonguss / AV Tangrowth / Def Mega Venusaur, all of which it is capable of OHKOing at +1 with Stealth Rock. It also picks up KOs on weaker pokemon such as 4/0 Latios.
  • Dazzling Gleam is Tapu Koko's only Fairy coverage but it gets the job done. With maximum investment and a +1 boost, it can OHKO 252 HP Latias with Stealth Rock, likely the most specially defensive Dragon to be found in OU.
  • U-turn provides excellent utility on any pokemon and is particularly solid on a speedster like Tapu Koko. I think it will be preferable to Volt Switch as it doesn't have any immunities and also hits notable targets in the Lati twins and various grass-types.
  • The last two moves provide boosting opportunities. Calm Mind allows moves like Grass Knot and DGleam the power to OHKO their targets. Work Up is an option for any mixed set that utilizes a physical attack.
Thanks to it's coverage and speed, Tapu Koko's main obstacles in OU are limited to Excadrill, Ferrothorn, and Magnezone. It has some way around nearly every other pokemon in the tier. It can always forgo some of this coverage for utility options in Roost and Taunt.
 
I can see Tapu Koko running a strong Specs set for the VGC meta in '17

Topu Koko @ Choice Specs
Nature: Timid
Ability: Electric Surge
4 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spd
Moves:
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch

Having what is effectively a triple STAB thanks to its ability and Specs on top of its typing means that very few things can switch in safely. Other Tapus can step in to take away the Terrain advantage, but having access to Volt Switch with such a high Speed stat makes it hard to pin down. While Dazzling Gleam is disappointing in regards to its damage output, but it's still an acceptable spread move if you don't want to go out of your way to use Discharge safely.
 
Still super impressed with how customizable this thing is, there are just so many routes to go. It's definitely my favorite pokemon from this generation, both design-wise and competitively. Here's a basic framework:

Tapu Koko@Life Orb
Naive; 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Electric Surge

Thunderbolt / Wild Charge
HP Ice / Grass Knot
Brave Bird / Dazzling Gleam
U-turn / Calm Mind / Work Up

Naive nature and Life Orb I think will be mandatory, though there is a case for Expert Belt or Zap Plate. You can literally do no wrong as the only thing KoKo needs is electric STAB - cool features follow:
  • Thunderbolt is preferable here due to the lack of recoil and perfect accuracy. It has a 68% chance to 2HKO SpD Heatran after rocks and leftovers, which is quite a feat for a neutral move and gives you an idea of its power.
  • Wild Charge with 184 Atk EVs (a commitment to a physical slant and possibly Work-Up, I know) does cool things like OHKO SpD Heatran, SpD Jirachi, and BandTar at +1. It would best be used in conjunction with Brave Bird to hit the bulky grasses that shut this down.
  • HP Ice is good coverage for Lando-T, Gliscor, and Garchomp - it only requires 44 SpA EVs at +1 for the OHKO and obviously cleanly 2HKOs otherwise.
  • Grass Knot is notable for hits on Mixed wall Hippowdon, Unaware Quagsire, and Mega Swampert if you're worried about those.
  • Brave Bird is really only notable alongside Wild Charge for coverage on Amoonguss / AV Tangrowth / Def Mega Venusaur, all of which it is capable of OHKOing at +1 with Stealth Rock. It also picks up KOs on weaker pokemon such as 4/0 Latios.
  • Dazzling Gleam is Tapu Koko's only Fairy coverage but it gets the job done. With maximum investment and a +1 boost, it can OHKO 252 HP Latias with Stealth Rock, likely the most specially defensive Dragon to be found in OU.
  • U-turn provides excellent utility on any pokemon and is particularly solid on a speedster like Tapu Koko. I think it will be preferable to Volt Switch as it doesn't have any immunities and also hits notable targets in the Lati twins and various grass-types.
  • The last two moves provide boosting opportunities. Calm Mind allows moves like Grass Knot and DGleam the power to OHKO their targets. Work Up is an option for any mixed set that utilizes a physical attack.
Thanks to it's coverage and speed, Tapu Koko's main obstacles in OU are limited to Excadrill, Ferrothorn, and Magnezone. It has some way around nearly every other pokemon in the tier. It can always forgo some of this coverage for utility options in Roost and Taunt.
Ehrr the "+1" is only for the Electric moves
 
What a waste giving it higher Attack than Special Attack. That's actually turning me away from using this particular Tapu in VGC. I don't like the idea of inefficiently using BST...
 
What a waste giving it higher Attack than Special Attack. That's actually turning me away from using this particular Tapu in VGC. I don't like the idea of inefficiently using BST...
Yeah, Mega Salamence and those silly Hyper Voice gimmicks were soooo tiring.

People will run Koko as a strict special attacker only to avoid Intimidate mark my words :p
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
I know this is going to sound like a noob decision - but do you think it's worth running Spark over Wild Charge, so recoil doesn't come back to bite you in the ass? + you still get the bonuses of Electric Terrain, and a 30% hax chance.

With this - roost isn't 100% mandatory, and it saves you faff as far as EVs in a few ways.
 
I know this is going to sound like a noob decision - but do you think it's worth running Spark over Wild Charge, so recoil doesn't come back to bite you in the ass? + you still get the bonuses of Electric Terrain, and a 30% hax chance.

With this - roost isn't 100% mandatory, and it saves you faff as far as EVs in a few ways.
It would be like running Fire Punch over Flare Blitz of Zard-X. Might be worth it to you, but I'm pretty sure 99 times out of 100 you prefer the power.
 
Yeah, Mega Salamence and those silly Hyper Voice gimmicks were soooo tiring.

People will run Koko as a strict special attacker only to avoid Intimidate mark my words :p
I guess running it mixed isn't too bad, but the difference between Mega Salamence and Tapu Koko that I forsee is that Tapu Koko will be used primarily as a special attacker despite having a higher Attack stat. At least people were mainly using Mega Salamence as a physically based mixed attacker, taking advantage of its much higher Attack stat. :p
 

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