Sword & Shield Battle Mechanics Research

  • If you stack Healing Wish + Lunar Dance in that order, then send in a Pokemon with full HP/no status but lost PP, does Lunar Dance activate first while Healing Wish remains stored for the next Pokemon? Or does Lunar Dance wait for Healing Wish to activate first?
  • If you stack Healing Wish + Lunar Dance in that; order, then send in a Pokemon with lost HP and lost PP, what happens?
    • (Possibility 1: Healing Wish activates first and then Lunar Dance does not activate. Lunar Dance remains stored for the next Pokemon.)
    • (Possibility 2: Healing Wish activates first and then Lunar Dance activates on the same Pokemon.)
 

awesomelink234

Banned deucer.
Has anyone tested if Ripen doubles the effect of the type-resisting Berries (e.g. Occa, Passho)? Bulbapedia says it does, but neither of the damage calculators I tried (Showdown's and Trainer Tower's) changed when I put Ripen as the Ability.
 
How do behemoth blade, behemoth bash, and Dynamax cannon work when hitting Pokemon that are "pre-Dynamaxed" or abusing "the Dynamax double HP exploit"? Does the damage double? Does it double or quadruple if the target Dynamaxes after it was already pre-Dynamaxed?
 
When a 'Mon would be damaged by weather, such as hail or sandstorm, and is holding Leftovers or Black Sludge, does the healing or damage come first?
 

DaWoblefet

Demonstrably so
is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
PS Admin
Scarlet/Violet's new item Covert Cloak has the description "This hooded cloak conceals the holder, protecting it from the additional effects of moves". This description sounds a lot like Shield Dust, and since I know Game Freak prefers not to reinvent the wheel, I went through and documented video footage of various mechanics related to Shield Dust!

Shield Dust
Move group 4, except moves which inflict the Bound status:
Fire Punch
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch
Body Slam
Poison Sting
Twineedle
Ember
Flamethrower
Ice Beam
Blizzard
Psybeam
Thunder Shock
Thunderbolt
Thunder
Confusion
Lick
Smog
Sludge
Fire Blast
Dizzy Punch
Tri Attack
Flame Wheel
Powder Snow
Sludge Bomb
Zap Cannon
Spark
Sacred Fire
Dynamic Punch
Dragon Breath
Heat Wave
Blaze Kick
Poison Fang
Signal Beam
Bounce
Poison Tail
Volt Tackle
Water Pulse
Flare Blitz
Force Palm
Poison Jab
Thunder Fang
Ice Fang
Fire Fang
Rock Climb
Discharge
Lava Plume
Cross Poison
Gunk Shot
Chatter
Sludge Wave
Scald
Inferno
Hurricane
Searing Shot
Relic Song
Bolt Strike
Blue Flare
Freeze Shock
Ice Burn
Freeze-Dry
Steam Eruption
Nuzzle
Throat Chop
Stoked Sparksurfer
Splishy Splash
Buzzy Buzz
Sizzly Slide
Sappy Seed
Pyro Ball
Strange Steam
Shell Side Arm
Burning Jealousy
Scorching Sands
Freezing Glare

Move group 6:
Acid
Bubble Beam
Aurora Beam
Psychic
Constrict
Bubble
Mud-Slap
Octazooka
Icy Wind
Iron Tail
Crunch
Shadow Ball
Rock Smash
Luster Purge
Mist Ball
Crush Claw
Rock Tomb
Muddy Water
Mud Shot
Bug Buzz
Focus Blast
Energy Ball
Earth Power
Mud Bomb
Mirror Shot
Flash Cannon
Seed Flare
Low Sweep
Acid Spray
Struggle Bug
Bulldoze
Electroweb
Razor Shell
Leaf Tornado
Night Daze
Glaciate
Snarl
Play Rough
Moonblast
Mystical Fire
Lunge
Fire Lash
Trop Kick
Shadow Bone
Liquidation
Drum Beating
Breaking Swipe
Apple Acid
Grav Apple
Spirit Break
Skitter Smack
Thunderous Kick

All moves that can flinch:
Bone Club
Hyper Fang
Extrasensory
Thunder Fang
Ice Fang
Fire Fang
Waterfall
Twister
Dark Pulse
Dragon Rush
Zen Headbutt
Fiery Wrath
Stomp
Rolling Kick
Headbutt
Bite
Sky Attack
Rock Slide
Snore
Needle Arm
Astonish
Air Slash
Iron Head
Heart Stamp
Steamroller
Icicle Crash
Zing Zap
Floaty Fall
Double Iron Bash
Fake Out

Special cases:
Eerie Spell
Anchor Shot
Spirit Shackle
Fling
Sparkling Aria curing burn (when there is only one target for Sparkling Aria)
Poison Touch (not a move, but its poison chance roll is prevented)
Stench (not a move, but its flinch chance is prevented)
King's Rock / Razor Fang (not a move, but their flinch chances are prevented)
Secret Power (did not test this thoroughly because it's not in SwSh, but should happen in Gen 7 to prevent any of the 30% bonus effects)

Flamethrower, or another Fire-type attack, thawing a frozen target
Scald thawing a frozen target
Knock Off removing a target's item
Thousand Waves trapping a target (even when there is only one target for Thousand Waves)
Power-Up Punch raising the attacking Pokemon's stats

Shield Dust can also be negated by Mold Breaker effects. For example, a Poison Touch Sunsteel Strike can poison a Shield Dust Pokemon.

Sheer Force

Here's a list of move effects negated by Sheer Force as well (that also give the 5325/4096 base power boost).

Moves which have a flinch chance not equal to 0:
Bone Club
Hyper Fang
Extrasensory
Thunder Fang
Ice Fang
Fire Fang
Waterfall
Twister
Dark Pulse
Dragon Rush
Zen Headbutt
Fiery Wrath
Stomp
Rolling Kick
Headbutt
Bite
Sky Attack
Rock Slide
Snore
Needle Arm
Astonish
Air Slash
Iron Head
Heart Stamp
Steamroller
Icicle Crash
Zing Zap
Floaty Fall
Double Iron Bash
Fake Out

Move group 4, except moves which inflict the Bound status:
Fire Punch
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch
Body Slam
Poison Sting
Twineedle
Ember
Flamethrower
Ice Beam
Blizzard
Psybeam
Thunder Shock
Thunderbolt
Thunder
Confusion
Lick
Smog
Sludge
Fire Blast
Dizzy Punch
Tri Attack
Flame Wheel
Powder Snow
Sludge Bomb
Zap Cannon
Spark
Sacred Fire
Dynamic Punch
Dragon Breath
Heat Wave
Blaze Kick
Poison Fang
Signal Beam
Bounce
Poison Tail
Volt Tackle
Water Pulse
Flare Blitz
Force Palm
Poison Jab
Thunder Fang
Ice Fang
Fire Fang
Rock Climb
Discharge
Lava Plume
Cross Poison
Gunk Shot
Chatter
Sludge Wave
Scald
Inferno
Hurricane
Searing Shot
Relic Song
Bolt Strike
Blue Flare
Freeze Shock
Ice Burn
Freeze-Dry
Steam Eruption
Nuzzle
Throat Chop
Stoked Sparksurfer
Splishy Splash
Buzzy Buzz
Sizzly Slide
Sappy Seed
Pyro Ball
Strange Steam
Shell Side Arm
Burning Jealousy
Scorching Sands
Freezing Glare

Move group 6:
Acid
Bubble Beam
Aurora Beam
Psychic
Constrict
Bubble
Mud-Slap
Octazooka
Icy Wind
Iron Tail
Crunch
Shadow Ball
Rock Smash
Luster Purge
Mist Ball
Crush Claw
Rock Tomb
Muddy Water
Mud Shot
Bug Buzz
Focus Blast
Energy Ball
Earth Power
Mud Bomb
Mirror Shot
Flash Cannon
Seed Flare
Low Sweep
Acid Spray
Struggle Bug
Bulldoze
Electroweb
Razor Shell
Leaf Tornado
Night Daze
Glaciate
Snarl
Play Rough
Moonblast
Mystical Fire
Lunge
Fire Lash
Trop Kick
Shadow Bone
Liquidation
Drum Beating
Breaking Swipe
Apple Acid
Grav Apple
Spirit Break
Skitter Smack
Thunderous Kick

Move group 7, except moves which lower the user's stats:
Steel Wing
Rapid Spin
Metal Claw
Ancient Power
Meteor Mash
Silver Wind
Charge Beam
Ominous Wind
Flame Charge
Fiery Dance
Diamond Storm
Power-Up Punch
Clangorous Soulblaze
Zippy Zap
Aura Wheel

Special cases:
Secret Power
Sparkling Aria
Spirit Shackle
Anchor Shot
Genesis Supernova
Eerie Spell

****
How do behemoth blade, behemoth bash, and Dynamax cannon work when hitting Pokemon that are "pre-Dynamaxed" or abusing "the Dynamax double HP exploit"? Does the damage double? Does it double or quadruple if the target Dynamaxes after it was already pre-Dynamaxed?
Behemoth moves don't double damage against pre-Dynamax Pokemon. If a pre-Dynamax Pokemon Dynamaxes again, they get the 2x damage boost.

  • If you stack Healing Wish + Lunar Dance in that order, then send in a Pokemon with full HP/no status but lost PP, does Lunar Dance activate first while Healing Wish remains stored for the next Pokemon? Or does Lunar Dance wait for Healing Wish to activate first?
  • If you stack Healing Wish + Lunar Dance in that; order, then send in a Pokemon with lost HP and lost PP, what happens?
    • (Possibility 1: Healing Wish activates first and then Lunar Dance does not activate. Lunar Dance remains stored for the next Pokemon.)
    • (Possibility 2: Healing Wish activates first and then Lunar Dance activates on the same Pokemon.)
In the first situation, Healing Wish activates first, and Lunar Dance is stored for later.
In the second situation, Healing Wish activates first, restores everything but HP, then Lunar Dance activates and restores the missing PP. So both are used.

Has anyone tested if Ripen doubles the effect of the type-resisting Berries (e.g. Occa, Passho)? Bulbapedia says it does, but neither of the damage calculators I tried (Showdown's and Trainer Tower's) changed when I put Ripen as the Ability.
They do deal 1/4 of the original expected damage.
 
Last edited:
If you stack Healing Wish + Lunar Dance in that order, then send in a Pokemon with full HP/no status but lost PP, does Lunar Dance activate first while Healing Wish remains stored for the next Pokemon? Or does Lunar Dance wait for a Healing Wish-eligible Pokemon to be sent in first? (reworded slightly from original post)
In the first situation, Healing Wish activates first, and Lunar Dance is stored for later.
By this, do you mean Lunar Dance activates first while Healing Wish is stored for later? Healing Wish cannot activate first because the Pokemon being sent in has full HP + no status.
 
That's correct, good catch! See footage.
Hey new here. Trying to research how Future Sight/Doom Desire targeting and stacking works. I don't have the games I can test with.

I found this video you posted which was helpful for understanding future attack mechanics.

In the end turn resolution you posted you say future attacks are queued, which I take to mean that they stack. But I'm getting conflicting answers on whether this means they're able to stack from the same user, different users, same user and different attacks, etc (pokemondb question and reddit thread)

In singles, the future attack user can only have one active future attack at a time. I'm trying to figure out if that works by setting a flag on the user or the target.

Lets say you're in a double battle and have self and ally target the same foe with Future Sight on the same turn:

Would both future attacks pass veto/accuracy checks on the turn they're used? (restriction is tied to user) Or would one of them fail? (restriction is tied to target)

If both future attacks succeed on the turn they're used, would the target take 2 future attacks later? Or would one of them fail?
 
Hey new here. Trying to research how Future Sight/Doom Desire targeting and stacking works. I don't have the games I can test with.

I found this video you posted which was helpful for understanding future attack mechanics.

In the end turn resolution you posted you say future attacks are queued, which I take to mean that they stack. But I'm getting conflicting answers on whether this means they're able to stack from the same user, different users, same user and different attacks, etc (pokemondb question and reddit thread)

In singles, the future attack user can only have one active future attack at a time. I'm trying to figure out if that works by setting a flag on the user or the target.

Lets say you're in a double battle and have self and ally target the same foe with Future Sight on the same turn:

Would both future attacks pass veto/accuracy checks on the turn they're used? (restriction is tied to user) Or would one of them fail? (restriction is tied to target)

If both future attacks succeed on the turn they're used, would the target take 2 future attacks later? Or would one of them fail?
I'm pretty sure Future Sight/Doom Desire target specific slots, and if a slot is already targeted for a future attack any other Pokémon attempting to target a future attack at that slot will fail.
 
I'm pretty sure Future Sight/Doom Desire target specific slots, and if a slot is already targeted for a future attack any other Pokémon attempting to target a future attack at that slot will fail.
You appear to be correct. Was able to test this with a friends copy of Shield this afternoon.

Could not target the same slot twice, whether it was from self, ally or both. However, I could target different slots from the same user. So it's possible for a user to have multiple pending future attacks, just not on the same slot.

Also tested if Future Sight checks Accuracy when it's used or when it lands. Was able to use Future Sight at -6 Accuracy, but the target avoided the attack 2 turns later. Also appears that Accuracy stat stages get cleared on switch out/faint (assuming I didn't get a lucky hit through -6 accuracy) This is consistent with DaWoblefet's testing of Sp Att boosts.
 
Just so we're clear, we're all aware here that Shield Dust prevents secondary effects from Fling, right?

Because I've encountered a surprising number of people on other sites who think it doesn't because Sheer Force doesn't work on Fling.
 
Sorry I'm late/asked in wrong thread, but I have 3 questions regarding Teatime in doubles, and I don't have a Switch

-Does it get blocked by crafty shield? I noticed Decorate does
-Does Teatime electrified affect ground types? Boltund can learn the move Electrify
-Does Teatime trigger Symbiosis?
 
Sorry I'm late/asked in wrong thread, but I have 3 questions regarding Teatime in doubles, and I don't have a Switch

-Does it get blocked by crafty shield? I noticed Decorate does
-Does Teatime electrified affect ground types? Boltund can learn the move Electrify
-Does Teatime trigger Symbiosis?
Oh, I was going to ask some of these questions myself, but it seems someone else beat me to it.
I imagine no one knows the answers though, or else there would have been a reply addressing them.
Sigh. That complicates things. I hope someone who knows the answer comes around eventually


EDIT: I was able to test the Crafty Shield and Teatime interaction myself by dumping the ROM FS of my copy of Pokémon Sword, creating a quick mod with pkNX, and also giving Teatime to my Coalossal using PKHeX!
It seems that Crafty Shield doesn't prevent Teatime from acting in any way.
https://streamable.com/a17lfc
 
Last edited:

Anubis

HONK
is a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
So, back to basics. After discussing with Anubis, we found that calculating with the base damage formula (((2 * level / 5 + 2) * power * attack) / defense) / 50 instead of the full thing allows easy differentiation between the two Wooper tests. This also agrees with every other test I've done, every test Anubis has done, and hopefully every test you have done.

The move description I've written up: "Has a 20% chance to poison the target. This move becomes a physical attack that makes contact if the value of ((((2 * the user's level / 5 + 2) * 90 * X) / Y) / 50), where X is the user's Attack stat and Y is the target's Defense stat, is greater than the same value where X is the user's Special Attack stat and Y is the target's Special Defense stat. No stat modifiers other than stat stage changes are considered for this purpose. If the two values are equal, this move chooses a damage category at random."

Note that Power Trick isn't a stat modifier. Power Trick changes raw stats prior to stat stage calculations, just like Power Split, Guard Split, and Speed Swap.

After all that, this is how Shell Side Arm works (until proven otherwise)! I've implemented this on the sim, and added a hint when the move hits to inform both players which animation the game uses. It would be an information leak to actually animate them differently since PS also animates moves that miss or hit Protect.
Today, I had the thought that I could figure out how Shell Side Arm really works since the previous implementation was a hypothesis that explained everything observed. It turns out the implementation Marty chose matches how the game does it. This is no longer conjecture but fact, yay.

1682619406606.png

1682622481436.png


Here's the snippet of pseudocode from SWSH that handles it. The game checks the base damage for special attack, then the base damage for regular attack, and picks the higher one. Only the stat modifiers are applied here for either attack and either defense.

If the base damage happens to be the same, it's just a rand2 which is 50% chance of either being picked.

EDIT: It seems the base damage calculation is different from the one in the move description, which simplifies out the +2 constant.
Here's a scenario where a level 25 Slowbro with 58 SpA uses SSA vs a 69 SpD Weezing.
The calculation comes out to 20, which matches calculation result new_base2.
Decision choice is the same, regardless.
1682623118304.png
 
Last edited:

Anubis

HONK
is a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Out of curiosity, why is this called pseudocode? I thought the process was to take assembly and try to decompile it, then try to guess and fit/fill in variable names.
The program calls it that, because it's regenerated fake code from the binary.
.
1682623413978.png

I use that term instead because otherwise people think I have the source code and I can read the answer.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top