Metagame SV RU Metagame Discussion (April Shifts, see post #191)

[Feliburn]

Second DLC dropped, and here are the Pokémon we got in the newest tier shift:

OU to RU | Other Relevant Drops From Lower Tiers

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UU to RU

RU to OU | RU to UU

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As you can see, we gained quite a lot of new tools, but it seems that the direct drops from UU are mostly powerful breakers, while we lost 3 solid defensive tools in Donphan, Hippowdon and Tyranitar.

REGI FLYGON IS BACK... although now they can compete for a position of the rocker of the team. Flygon losing Roost hurts a lot, but it can still pull off offensive sets relatively well. I listed Alcremie, Scrafty & Malamar as they can be quite annoying to handle with tera.

The RU council will look into the current state of the tier to take action (be it quick bans or freeing some RUBL mon). Feel free to drop your own thoughts on the new drops!​

 

[War Incarnate]

Ok, which one of you guys made Electivire AND Rampardos AND (s)Hitmonlee RU?? (also Hoopa-U, Terrak, and Mamo are in the tier, says a lot about the state of power creep)

 

[angelthesaucegod]

Allegedly, I game, so my first instincts off of this is (and correct me if I'm wrong) Politoed is our only weather setter? Like Feli said I think I'll miss Tyranitar the most out of all of the risers we had. The weather setting was nice, the Special Defense it had to check stuff like H-Zoroark and H-Typh will be missed but, I'm positive we can live without Tyranitar just fine as we stuff have Hoopa Unbound ya'know. I don't even think you need any Sp. Def investment into it as it already has a great 130 Sp. Def that can come in on attacks from the two previously mentioned Pokemon. Now, when it comes to stopping Hoopa-U besides revenge killing it? I mean we could always use our beloved Wo-Chien resists the Dark type STAB and is immune to the Psychic part.... anyways!

Some other things I wanted to touch briefly on is the possibility of like, tera fly or water (or tera rock with solid rock instead of lightning rod) Rhyperior that seems silly, like, double dance or something um, I love that we have Craw only because it's a favorite of mine, I'm not sure what it can actually do, I haven't played any games yet.

That's just my quick little thoughts on it, I don't want to say too much as I don't know what's going to the BL or not. bye bye!!! I hope everyone has fun and has a happy 2024!

 

[FlamingoPokeman]

Rain is about to be unstoppable with the litany of options available...
, , , , , , even stuff like and are gonna thrive in this new meta.
(EDIT: Rain isn't nearly as bad as I originally thought it would be. Bellibolt and Decidueye-Hisui can win most matchups alone and the amount of options available is almost a bad thing in my opinion as you likely try to squeeze too many onto a team and get walled by Belli.)

To discuss my considerations for quickbans, I'll begin with the one who enables the rest, . This funny little guy is the dominant weather setter now with , and moving up in the world.

With or without the rain, will be spamming Knocks like crazy with the potential to setup Dragon Dances behind screens in HO. Me thinks this is gonna be a problem...

 

[Gondre19Wedj]

Allegedly, I game, so my first instincts off of this is (and correct me if I'm wrong) Politoed is our only weather setter?

My goodness. The disrespect is so real. Is it really that bad? Is Sun without Torkoal that bad here in RU?

 

[LBN]

First impressions, no Golisopod

This mon is going to be godlike. Slapping this on bulkier builds, especially w stun spore for choking random things like cobalion n yanmega will be sweet. Can just this shitter into anything you want as an RNG fish ohh the memories of paralyzed crobats are coming back to me

Tera scrafty is an unacceptable existence. It's probably going to mop alot of bulkier builds/gotcha w teras for free vs offense, notably tera poison but theres other options. Annoying snowball, doesn't entirely require tera but it abuses it really well.

GET HIM OUTTA HERE. They call this guy agent 007 here. 0 checks 0 counters 7 warcrimes. Stabs w stellar tera killing anything it wants, trailblaze lets it sweep whenever it feels like moving yeah he gotta go. Rotom-Heat on every single team is about to be AMAZING

LMFAOOOOO. (dont qb him) unironically, since it doesn't have rock polish anymore this mon straight up might be acceptable. it's not THAT much better than duskroc, and sure losing hippo/donphan blows, but i think we can give this one time

 

[TyCarter]

is a very cool mon to use rn, CB Tera Normal ESpeed can take u places as an anti-offense mon. It's espeed with CB is on par with Hisuian Arcanine and Sacred Fire is a bs move.

stab combo is great, trailblaze is cool. It has a couple options for moves too like Stone Edge if u really want to knock out the Rotom Heat out the way or Knock for zong. Very strong and has some flex options.

is like a decent guts breaker and mach punch can also do wonders for it as it won't be deadweight against HO comps.

has a lot of nice compression and decent item choices to work with, very flexible mon. Pivot and Rocks goes places and it can run either physical or special. Not certain about it's best tera type yet tho.

Spam Quick Claw on this if real.

 

[Critaquil]

random innitial thoughts:

distinct lack of switchins and can come in obscenely easily with good team support, ban this thing

legitimately underwhelming, cool mon but nothing special, at least for now

rain is probably broken, but I could see it mellowing out over time

solid breaker, might turn out to be too much but as of now I doubt it, ice/ground is not a typing that gives many good switchin oppurtunities and even once it gets in its left threatened by a litany of things

tera makes this thing a headache to check, probably not broken but I hate it

insanely dangerous if left unchecked, clear body is also fun for completely stuffing the next mon

outside of being complete setup fodder for registeel this thing is really cool, grass poison is great defensively and sap + good bulk does wonders for this thing, thought I worry about it being passive

 

[Cuddly]

Just an FYI Hitmonlee has Sword Dance.

In any case, what speed tier should unburden Pokemon try to hit for RU? It'd be preferred if Hitmonlee could just hit like 1 or 2 above most relevant Pokemon on the speed tiers so that it can invest into Def a little, as it really needs it.

 

[FlamingoPokeman]

Just an FYI Hitmonlee has Sword Dance.

In any case, what speed tier should unburden Pokemon try to hit for RU? It'd be preferred if Hitmonlee could just hit like 1 or 2 above most relevant Pokemon on the speed tiers so that it can invest into Def a little, as it really needs it.

Not sure with Jugs and Maus gone now, but 266 +2 was always my benchmark (532 total). That was always my speed for Rev and Arma to outspeed even Scarf stuff like Horoark and Lycan-D, but rain coming back may invalidate that with Barraskewda running 600+ without investment...

 

[lars]

With a jolly nature probably 120 or 154 evs
Slightly out speeds Scarf H-zoroark, Espeon and then slush rush cetitan and SS drednaw respectively.

Could go more, but yeah with barra back is probably a fools errand to assume you're beating everything

 

[Sir Azelf]

So far Hoopa-U, Mamo and Crawdaunt look like aids. Little/if any checks and the ones they do have still take insane damage. Wouldnt be surprised if all are quick banned tbh.

Sun, Rain and Snow/Hail look more viable (ironically) now there are less bulky options to come in to disrupt weather sweepers. Gen 5 weather wars lite lgi!

Personally looking forward to using Rhyperior and Scrafty whom check some niche annoying stuff. Both plug some holes both defensively and offensively but i dont think they'll be quite as broken as the above aforementioned threats.

(Speaking of defensive plugs, use Lanturn and Vileplume/Exeggutor-Alola)

kthnxbye

 

[Master Chief]

I don’t want to make a huge post but I think with hippo leaving, Lycan can be looked at for a suspect. Banded was already really difficult to switch into and I actually think with jug leaving the tier it got even better. Similar logic applies to terrakion but physical breakers just got that much better with hippo leaving. I do know quag exists but that doesn’t stomach banded cc from either. Accelerock is also really top priority in this tier.

I don’t see hoopa/conk/craw/enam being healthy either because all three don’t have any switchins effectively that I can think of and I think should be qbanned. Idk about mamo personally he may be ok with the fat waters we have in the tier but would have to see how it shapes up.

 

[Joba]

Rain seems fairly strong, especially craw. I have yet to see a mon that can switch in to it effectively. Knock off goes brrr

 

[Sneakyplanner]

I don’t want to make a huge post but I think with hippo leaving, Lycan can be looked at for a suspect.

I can't see this being the case when terrakion is in the tier. There are still good lycanroc answers like the slowbros, mudsdales and quagsires. And for now there is a mon that does even more damage than the dog with about 500 pounds more bulk and pounding muscles than the dog.

 

[Bruxish supremacy]

I can't see this being the case when terrakion is in the tier. There are still good lycanroc answers like the slowbros, mudsdales and quagsires. And for now there is a mon that does even more damage than the dog with about 500 pounds more bulk and pounding muscles than the dog.

It must benoted that dusk lycan isnt a downgrade from terrack. Its more like sidegrade. Infact last gen UU during IoA metagame dusk form kind of outclassed terackion prior to its ban.

 

[Bice]

Some thoughts on stuff I think should be nuked from the tier:

- The shifts have pushed rain over the edge. Between Barraskewda's return, the actually good Basculegion form dropping and to a lesser extent Raikou, Rain is stronger than ever and its previous checks (namely the water absorb mons) are under high pressure. I'm not sure whether banning Politoed, Damp Rock, or the particularly problematic abusers would be the best course, but I feel like banning one of the former two would be the best course of action as I see additions like Basculegion-F and Raikou being healthy without rain. Except for one...
- Even outside of Rain, Crawdaunt hits like a hydrogen bomb. With a near-unresisted STAB combo outside of Whimsicott (lol), the crawdad can 2HKO just about everyone in the tier, enabling fellow dangerous threats like Basculegion-F and Enamorus-Therian to clean up. While it's frail, it's not super hard to get Crawdaunt in against slower threats in order to let it start nuking things. Basically take Magnezone's issue of very little coming in on it and make it 100x worse.
- Who knew Fairy and Ground coverage would make such a broken mon? Obscenely bulky, finds setup opportunities very easily, and can Tera into Ground in order to give its checks a big fat "NUH UH". Literally the only reliable check to this mon is PU king Bronzong, who even then is prone to getting worn down easily, and if it opts to run Mystical Fire then you're screwed.
- no i didnt forget it existed what are you talking about anyway people have already harped on it so i wont talk abt it too much. dummy strong offensive stats and stupidly wide movepool make it near-impossible to predict. a team that just barely beats physical hoopa will likely crumple to special for example, and preparing for both is extremely difficult. please delete from tier thanks

Stuff I think is borderline but I'm not 100% sure of:
- Probably biased cause I have not seen this guy much, and I've really only used it as a suicide lead. That said, it has a similar issue to Crawdaunt except it's a Ground-type with passable bulk, and its STABs are unresisted outside of the aforementioned Bronzong. I also think Freeze Dry variants should be experimented with more.
- Hits dummy hard with Banded Sacred Fire and can turn into budget E-Killer with Tera Normal Extreme Speed. However it has to choose between getting hit by rocks or hitting hard, and losing Donphan was a huge blow to it, forcing it to be partnered with Cyclizar 93% of the time.

 

[Sneakyplanner]

It must benoted that dusk lycan isnt a downgrade from terrack. Its more like sidegrade. Infact last gen UU during IoA metagame dusk form kind of outclassed terfackion prior to its ban.

Lycanroc isn't a downgrade, but it's definitely not a sidegrade either. It's more like a diagonal-downwardgrade. And terrakion's unique quirks are what make it way more bannable in my opinion. It's able to get up a swords dance way easier thanks to its good bulk and it's harder to switch into a banded CC or stone edge from terrakion.

Some thoughts on stuff I think should be nuked from the tier:

- The shifts have pushed rain over the edge. Between Barraskewda's return, the actually good Basculegion form dropping and to a lesser extent Raikou, Rain is stronger than ever and its previous checks (namely the water absorb mons) are under high pressure. I'm not sure whether banning Politoed, Damp Rock, or the particularly problematic abusers would be the best course, but I feel like banning one of the former two would be the best course of action as I see additions like Basculegion-F and Raikou being healthy without rain. Except for one...
- Even outside of Rain, Crawdaunt hits like a hydrogen bomb. With a near-unresisted STAB combo outside of Whimsicott (lol), the crawdad can 2HKO just about everyone in the tier, enabling fellow dangerous threats like Basculegion-F and Enamorus-Therian to clean up. While it's frail, it's not super hard to get Crawdaunt in against slower threats in order to let it start nuking things. Basically take Magnezone's issue of very little coming in on it and make it 100x worse.
- Who knew Fairy and Ground coverage would make such a broken mon? Obscenely bulky, finds setup opportunities very easily, and can Tera into Ground in order to give its checks a big fat "NUH UH". Literally the only reliable check to this mon is PU king Bronzong, who even then is prone to getting worn down easily, and if it opts to run Mystical Fire then you're screwed.

Stuff I think is borderline but I'm not 100% sure of:
- Probably biased cause I have not seen this guy much, and I've really only used it as a suicide lead. That said, it has a similar issue to Crawdaunt except it's a Ground-type with passable bulk, and its STABs are unresisted outside of the aforementioned Bronzong. I also think Freeze Dry variants should be experimented with more.
- Hits dummy hard with Banded Sacred Fire and can turn into budget E-Killer with Tera Normal Extreme Speed. However it has to choose between getting hit by rocks or hitting hard, and losing Donphan was a huge blow to it, forcing it to be partnered with Cyclizar 93% of the time.

Rain is problematic, but I feel like if there is going to be a ban on it then the first thing I would target is crawdaunt. That thing is a problem in and outside of rain and I feel like rain without it might be linear enough to be manageable, though that might just be because my slowbro usage rate is nearly 80%. I don't think there is anything else I would 100% say is banworthy right now, but I agree that enamorus and :mamoswine mamoswine are on the hit list. Entei, however, I am not so convinced about. It's barely an upgrade to arcanine in the damage department and our bulky waters are pretty good answers. Slowbro just completely blanks it, milotic doesn't need to run max physdef to take two tera normal extremespeeds from full and it doesn't have toxic anymore. Also quick word of advice to all the entei users: remember to give it inner focus for the intimidate immunity.

 

[Hyper bol]

Some thoughts on the tier shifts :

Banworthy :

-- Do I need to explain why are they broken ? They are nearly impossible to counter, Hoopa being counter only by Tinkaton and Alolan Muk, which you can annoy with Trick and threaten with Tera Blast Ground. Enamorus-Therian's Fairy-Ground Coverage is countered only by Chansey and Specially Defensive Rotom-Heat , the first which is only usable in Stall and the second which only have Pain Split to heal itself. Crawdaunt is is the same case with only Chesnaught, Hisuian Decidueye (that are 2hko after one Swords Dance) and Tauros-Aqua able to counter it. They are also hard to Revenge Kill if you don't know their Tera-Types.

With Hippowdon, Tyranitar and Torkoal no longer in the Tier, Rain is now impossible to remove, except by very niche Pokemon like Altaria, Ninetales, Golduck or Prankster Sunny Day Setters. This is not the only buff that Rain gained with this Tier Shift. Rain now have 3 news broken abusers : Barraskweda, Female Basculegion and Crawdaunt.

Nearly banworthy :

- These guys hit very hard, with Choice Band or Swords Dance in Terrakion's case. There is phew Pokemon that resist their STABs coupled with Choice Band, like Slowbro, Palossand (for Terrakion only), Tauros-Aqua (if not Oblivious Mamoswine) and Quagsire answers Swords Dance Terrakion quite well. They are easier to Revenge Kill so a bit less threatening, but pay attention to them.

Very good :

-- These one are not overpowered but still strong and very interesting. Banded Sacred Fire does insane damage to Pokemon that does not resist it, and Tera Normal Extreme Speed is a very strong tool in Revenge Killing, but Bulky Waters, and some other Pokemon that resist its STAB can switch easily on it. Raikou seems a bit underrated. It can pivot freely with Volt Switch and Heavy-Duty Boots using Scald to threaten Ground-Types and Kilowattrel, or can use a Substitute Calm Mind set to clean in endgame, altought Water Absorb Quagsire hardwalls Raikou if Thunderbolt and Scald are your only attacks. Conkeldurr seems like a very nice Guts Wallbreaker, being able to do insane damage with its Fighting STAB, Knock Off or Facade, but with Slowbro, Fairies, Flying-Types and Ghost-Types in the Tier it's not too threatening.

Additional thoughts :

- The loss of the two main Physically Defensive Ground-Types of the tier greatly impacts the tier. Electric-Types will be able to Spam their Volt Switch more easily, and Physically-Offensive Pokemon are way more threatening due to the loss of Hippowdon. This loss would allow other Physically Defensive Walls to shine, like Bellibolt, Chesnaught, Slowbro or Palossand for exemple.

Tauros-Paldeao-Aqua might actually be good again ! I don't talk of an Offensive Set with Bulk Up or Choice Band, but a more Defensive set with Bulk Up and Defense invest. It's able to counter Crawdaunt, non-Oblivious Mamoswine, Golurk, Entei, Barraskewda and more thanks to Intimidate and its great bulk and typing, coupled to Bulk Up to counter setup-Sweepers.

 

[Sneakyplanner]

Tauros-Paldeao-Aqua might actually be good again ! I don't talk of an Offensive Set with Bulk Up or Choice Band, but a more Defensive set with Bulk Up and Defense invest. It's able to counter Crawdaunt, non-Oblivious Mamoswine, Golurk, Entei, Barraskewda and more thanks to Intimidate and its great bulk and typing, coupled to Bulk Up to counter setup-Sweepers.

I'm not convinced that defensive tauros is the future, but I do believe that water bull is a good mon rn and also was last month. I only see it being good if you actually outspeed mamoswine, and at that point just run full offensive. If you invest enough in bulk to live two poltergeists from CB golurk then you can't 2hko with raging bull, so again might as well just go fully offensive. You need water attacks and those can't be boosted with defense investment. CB aqua jet is still really really good and you can beat rain by revenge killing rather than directly switching into skewda. It really does not beat entei though, you just get burned and becomes useless.

 

[Feliburn]

Hello community. The RU council has decided to vote on all the available RUBL mons... except for Iron Jugulis. Iron Jugulis is a recent ban that we will address later down the line. Alongside the suspect being so recent, there was a consensus that what made us act on Iron Jugulis did not really change. We are however open to revisit this next month. That being said, here are the results of our votes.

RUBL Votes

And just like that...

Lilligant-Hisui, Mew, Mienshao, Regidrago & Zarude have been unbanned from RU!

Tagging Kris & Marty to implement these changes on Showdown! Thanks in advance.

Keep in mind that we just added more offensive threats to the tier. We understand they can get out of hand quickly, so it's important that you all voice your opinions on the current state of the meta to make it easier for us to spot potential issues, and improve the current state of the tier as a community.

Happy posting!

 

[Miyami~~~]

meta saved

 

[Iron Jugglenuts]

I think u should unban someone that really but really want to be unban ( that one guy from my profile picture ) :)

 

[Seed Sower]

This shit is stupid as fuck. 160/170 offensive stats demolish most of the tier off the bat and the ability to run either physical or special sets, not to mention Trick, NP, TWave, Destiny Bond, etc, makes it very risky to try to switch in. Sure it dies to stuff like Slither, but it will kill something before Slither can safely be sent out after which Hoopa will just switch out, rinse and repeat. A-Muk and Tink get worn down too easily and are shaky checks at best. And all of these issues are only exacerbated by Tera. Plz ban

 

[FlamingoPokeman]

Hey everyone, lots of new drops means a new VR (and personal Tiermaker) is due - I went ahead and made a new Tiermaker!!
https://tiermaker.com/create/january-2024-sv-ru-16598396-2