Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]
1. )
a. Bulky Offense
b. Balance
c. Stall
d. Hyper Offense

2. staples of stall are dodonzo, blissey, corviknight, the rest can be filler or up to you. Staples of HO is gholdengo, cyclizar, and a HO lead i personally think chomp is the best one, the threats there are prob SD iron valiant, DD dragonite, QD volcarona.

4. Skeledirge, Tinkaton, Masuhold, Meowscarda, and Iron Moth
5. Volcarona for sure.. it is used so little for how good it is, dragapult esp specs is underated asf esp in a meta where u basically have no long term switches to it
6. Clodsire is funny, baxcalibur is funny dd user that is a balanced kyurem, Iron thorns is a nice dd user that is able to lure in threats esp with tera and u can tera water to dd up against garchomp for ex.
9. Ill give it a 7 for fun.... still a new meta but i find tera broken
10. 5 cuz tera is broken and it comes down to 50/50 a lot
 
I think Dondozo and Garganacl deserve some talks. They can be quite oppressive specially when played in stall.

Dondozo is the biggest offender and pretty much a physical blissey with unaware. Rest allows it both to heal to full health and remove status while its bulkyness with unaware makes it almost untouchable for most mons.

Its pretty much Ubers version of quagsire and a ban should be considered. Garganacl is also pretty strong but doesnt feel as oppresive.

What do you guys think?
 
re: tera ban, i think its inevitable this year but i really do hope tera sticks around for a while, i've had so much fun with some underused pokemon with unique tera types and it really lets alternative strategies shine
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
re: tera ban, i think its inevitable this year but i really do hope tera sticks around for a while, i've had so much fun with some underused pokemon with unique tera types and it really lets alternative strategies shine
I still think the correct move is banning Tera but implementing a separate Tera OU ladder so we can see what a Tera-less and a Tera meta look like in tandem. I guarantee it won’t split the playerbase because Tera is less divisive than Dexit was and implementing Natdex didn’t split the playerbase to any significant degree.
 
I think Dondozo and Garganacl deserve some talks. They can be quite oppressive specially when played in stall.

Dondozo is the biggest offender and pretty much a physical blissey with unaware. Rest allows it both to heal to full health and remove status while its bulkyness with unaware makes it almost untouchable for most mons.

Its pretty much Ubers version of quagsire and a ban should be considered. Garganacl is also pretty strong but doesnt feel as oppresive.

What do you guys think?
dondozo is fine, no recovery outside of rest is a big issue and its passive as all hell, if nothing on your team is capable of breaking through a physically bulky water then I do think thats a teambuilding issue, any special electric murks it, amoongus hardwalls it and gives you free momentum with spore, specs pult can deal huge damage even with just sball, even most setup sweepers have a way through it with a tera water/grass and taunt, its a blissey on the physical end with all the same problems that blissey has in this meta
 
I still think the correct move is banning Tera but implementing a separate Tera OU ladder so we can see what a Tera-less and a Tera meta look like in tandem. I guarantee it won’t split the playerbase because Tera is less divisive than Dexit was and implementing Natdex didn’t split the playerbase to any significant degree.
people will always play the original OU ladder.... that is how it is
 
dondozo is fine, no recovery outside of rest is a big issue and its passive as all hell, if nothing on your team is capable of breaking through a physically bulky water then I do think thats a teambuilding issue, any special electric murks it, amoongus hardwalls it and gives you free momentum with spore, specs pult can deal huge damage even with just sball, even most setup sweepers have a way through it with a tera water/grass and taunt, its a blissey on the physical end with all the same problems that blissey has in this meta
The thing is Dondozo isnt run alone and it isnt just a ''physically bulky water'', do run mons that can kill it, that doesnt mean the opponent is gonna let that happen, not in stall. Rest is no issue as it can either run sleep talk or simple tank almost anything physical.

Dondozo problem its not its offensive danger (which it still hax thanks to curse), its its unbreakability.
 
I still think the correct move is banning Tera but implementing a separate Tera OU ladder so we can see what a Tera-less and a Tera meta look like in tandem. I guarantee it won’t split the playerbase because Tera is less divisive than Dexit was and implementing Natdex didn’t split the playerbase to any significant degree.
Disagree Tera gives a lot more depth to teambuilding and gameplay. Tera isnt as unpredictable as some paint it and overdramatize it as mons will almost always run the most optimal tera type, which is usually 1 or 2 types only and can only be done once per battle.

Thanks to Tera now u have a lot more chances when facing a bad match up and makes skilled teambuilding and gameplay a lot more important than ever before.
 

TCTphantom

formerly MX42
One thing I have been having some success with right now is Scarf Meowscarada. Part of this might be the surprise factor, but it have been doing a lot of work for me. Nothing is as satisfying as revenge killing a Roaring Moon or Chien Pao with a Scarf Play Rough.


Meowscarada (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Flower Trick
- Play Rough

This is what I have been running. It has been doing well on most forms of offense. It is good vs the Cyclizer Glimorra/Grimmsnarl HO teams but when I tried slotting it into one itself I found it was not that great. My favorite teammates are ones that give some semblance of a bulky backbone and can be pivoted into since Meowscarada offers like no defensive utility. Stuff like Great Tusk or Iron Treads are great with this thing.

From personal experience, I have not been the biggest fan of Boots/LO Three attacks. Setting hazards is cool, but with Cyclizer in the meta it feels bad to just risk letting that thing come in for free and set up a shed tail. It's still probably good, but I think Scarf is the best set.
 
I’m kind of dismayed to hear this. Either Cyclizar or Shed Tail urgently need to go. As of the last Council vote, half of the Council agreed that it warrants a quickban, and it’s only gotten more oppressive since banning two Pokémon that could get it below 50% before it used Shed Tail (but don’t get me wrong, those bans were absolutely the right move). The meta is clearly suffering because of it.
With one of those 2 being one of the very few mons in the meta that could actually outspeed cyclizar naturally. It's an even bigger nuisance now as it doesn't run scarf to outspeed Bundle so it likes to run knock before u-turning to heal then coming back after a death or Grim has set up screens.
 
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Is Sylveon the only good Eeveelution? You would think Game Freak would make the Eeveelutions better given their popularity.
I like Umbreon because ghost resists are always good, it has great bulk, nice support moves and can do what it did last gen well enough. If it's actually viable, idk, I can imagine it either way

Haven't tried out Espeon but wouldn't a fast offensive Magic Bounce user with CM be technically useful? Maybe going whacky and going Tera Ghost or Dark to take out offensive Ghosts?
 

Perish Song

flaunt
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]

1) 1>4=2>3. Offense makes up most of high ladder from what I've seen and certain team comps doesnt have much problem breaking Stall cores. Stall remains mu fishy but imo equal to BO in terms of power. Balance rn just sucks or needs more exploration.

2) Stall probably would love Dondozo, Avalugg and Clodsire. Hyper Offense has some branching, can be either Screens via Grimm, Hazard stack via Glimmora or Shed Tail via Cyclizar, and/or the combinations of these. (Not all 3 of them together but seen quite a lot of variations of any given 2)
For balance I believe we can list quite a lot of Pokemon now, I tried using this quite alot and my to go cores are Great Tusk + Gholdengo (In fact Gholdengo is just dumb easy to put in ANY team), and Garchomp + Rotom-W.

3) I absolutely love Garchomp for my offense / balance tests. It does very well vs Glimmora spam as you click Earthquake turn 1, then they are unable to spin so you join to hazard stacking war, Iron Treads or Great Tusk is able to spin later in the game generally. Scarf Rotom is my to go choice to punish Annihilape, Trick just renders it useless for the most part. I also play Roaring Moon with band its pretty fun , it definitively needs Magnezone to get past Corviknight tho.

4) Definitively Roaring Moon. Its overly hyped but dd sets are so easy to manage, especially with Great Tusk / Chien Pao being in a lot of teams, and oftentimes in the same team even. I've had a greater success with Band.

5) Iron Valiant. Dont get me wrong this is definitively danger. Mass speed, coverage and good offensive stats all around allows this to be mixed, special and physical. Good offensive typing and stabs is also very much appreciated. I dont remember how many teams I've made are just straight out weak to this because I cant find a mon that resists this thing. Its definitively far better than what people interpret.

6) Gholdengo. Cheesestick is incredible and forces Balance/Stall to play more aggressively. All around good stats + excellent coverage makes this a very good mon. Maybe too good in fact.

7) Garchomp. I tolerate the loss of toxic with newly addition spikes, and this thing can get multiple hazards up vs anything not named corviknight. Overall lack of relevant fairy types makes Dragon Tail a very solid option as last move.

8) I would say Mirror Herb. As a complete shitpost I was once able to copy a Belly Drum from an Azumarill. I dont think its good enough to steal any other stat boost. Maybe Agility too.

9) 9, even at this state I think we have a very good metagame.

10) 7, I believe a restriction/ban for tera is needed. Its simply not a competitive mechanic. We play a game of odds which is based on visible knowledge, I believe Tera's unpredictability has a negative impact and drags metagame towards chaos more.

Have a good day too mister.
 
Just out of curiosity, what do we think of Sandy Shocks atm? I'm not a good player by any means and still trying to get a foothold on this gen's meta since I just started engaging in it recently, but I've been aiming to try it out and see how it does since it looks pretty nice on paper.
 
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Is there some OU mon that can kill (2HKO) both clodsire and dondozo ? I'm having difficulties taking them down when in the same core
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sandy Shocks Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 332-392 (71.5 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sandy Shocks Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dondozo: 434-512 (86.1 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Best I can think of right off the bat is Specs Sandy Shocks since that's what I'm looking to get opinions on rn. Checked the Scarf Calcs as well and it still 2 shots both.
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Is there some OU mon that can kill (2HKO) both clodsire and dondozo ? I'm having difficulties taking them down when in the same core
Very few individual things can take down a massive physical wall and a massive special wall at the same time, especially when at least one is running Unaware. I think Clodozo is this generation’s SkarmBliss. Only things I can think of right now are Sandy Shocks and Specs Chi-Yu (which needs to fucking go).
 
Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]
Loving the discussion here.

1. I prefer Balance= Bulky Offense > Stall > Hyper Offense, but right now the viability is just about flipped.
2 stall got a few more unawares to work with, and Hyperoffense got a small pokedex's worth of new threats. Look for Ting Lu, it will very likely be a staple in bulky offensive teams in the future.
3. I love, love, love ting lu + wishpasser (either alomamola or scream tail), it's super hard to break and a lot of fun to play with. A balance core I've been working on for a while is TingLu/Wishpasser/SandyShocks/Corv, it's a really fun team. Specs Shocks is a surprisngly good pivot.
4. Great Tusk. It's an incredible mon, easily top 10, but I think that it will go down in usage over time. Anhiliape too, but that's already starting to happen.
5. Sandy Shocks.
6. Wo-Chien. I really really wish that thing got parting shot.
7. Corviknight. Always loved corv.
8. The new items seem mostly relevant to VGC, and I haven't gotten into VGC yet. Don't think they'll shake up OU much.
9. If the end of SS was an 8, this is a 5 or 6.
19. 4 or 5, this gen has thrown a lot of shit at OU and I'm super thankful to the council and Finch for working hard to keep it a good tier!
 
I like Umbreon because ghost resists are always good, it has great bulk, nice support moves and can do what it did last gen well enough. If it's actually viable, idk, I can imagine it either way

Haven't tried out Espeon but wouldn't a fast offensive Magic Bounce user with CM be technically useful? Maybe going whacky and going Tera Ghost or Dark to take out offensive Ghosts?
Umbreon lost toxic, which was a big part of its kit last gen. Espeon is ok, but there are usually better options. Most of the hazard setters in the meta can abuse it switching in pretty easily.
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
I'll leave some questions for discussion
1. HO>BO>BA>STALL
2. for HO you have things like Screens Grim, DD terra normal dragonite, glimmora suicide lead. on BO you have some more form of variety, i havent seen too much BO because its either HO or semi stall, but for both BO and balance, both new forms of Donphan have been dealing with tons of success. from balance even less, but you have some defensive cores here and there, stall got dengo, corv, blobs
3. I havent try as much as you lads but specs chin yu, AV tusk, Rocky helmet donzo have been fun
4. Dengo, literally stop using corv, if you like stall but dont like corv, literally go back to Forrestress
5. Pincurchin, he is trash by himself, but this means Quark Drive mons can use other items, and those mons are worth the effort
6. Great Tusk, I love this family killer elephant like you wouldnt belive
7. Honestly, im waiting for Chesnaught but for the moment Sylveon, she is really cool now that Clef is not here to outclass her
8. aside from booster energy no, but this means i have to try something now
9. 8/10, its messy but super fun going around and making stuff explode
10. 7/10, sure tera can be a bit bullshit at times but for the most part it has been fair
 
Umbreon lost toxic, which was a big part of its kit last gen. Espeon is ok, but there are usually better options. Most of the hazard setters in the meta can abuse it switching in pretty easily.
I've used espeon up to 1500. I give it light clay and use it to set screens and find it's pretty effective. The main reason it's pretty useful is because it's so difficult to clear hazards because of gholdengo... but I also think a meta team built around gholdengo and glimmora is overall better.
 
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