Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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I know a lot of people are dunking on users concerned the OU council is determined to make stall a mainstay. That said, can we give their grievances a little more validation?

I personally went to Smogon headquarters and snuck into the secret OU council room through the air vents. I’m still shocked by what I saw. Finchinator, stroking his beloved pet Toxepex in one hand, sipping tears from a hollowed Iron Bundle skull in the other, was bathing in a pool of freshly spilled dolphin blood. The rest of the OU council was preparing a Cyclizar to be ritualistically sacrificed to the stall gods. We need to stop their reign of terror before they quick ban our rights and force Jonathon Gamefreak himself to arrest every funny rage Pokémon YouTuber for using fewer than two pink blobs per team.
 
People keep saying this, and it's just not true. Baton pass wasn't banned because passing a substitute was overpowered, it was banned because of non-interactive full-team baton pass strategies which were absurdly matchup fishy.
If this is true, then why don’t we just have limits on how many mons per team can have Baton Pass instead of a full ban?

Also while I’m on this topic, there’s an argument being made that Booster Energy can’t be banned because not all of its potential abusers are broken. Now, I don’t really think Booster Energy needs to be banned at this point, but it’s still worth mentioning that this idea is wack. Tons of Baton Pass users are pretty much useless with the move. If stuff like Dunsparce and Leavanny were the only Pokemon with Baton Pass, it probably wouldn’t be banned, or even see play. Not every potential abuser needs to be broken for something to be banned.
 
If this is true, then why don’t we just have limits on how many mons per team can have Baton Pass instead of a full ban?



Also while I’m on this topic, there’s an argument being made that Booster Energy can’t be banned because not all of its potential abusers are broken. Now, I don’t really think Booster Energy needs to be banned at this point, but it’s still worth mentioning that this idea is wack. Tons of Baton Pass users are pretty much useless with the move. If stuff like Dunsparce and Leavanny were the only Pokemon with Baton Pass, it probably wouldn’t be banned, or even see play. Not every potential abuser needs to be broken for something to be banned.
Because Baton pass was too powerful even with a limited number of mons. Councils literally have gone through hoops trying to nerf baton pass chain.
 
If this is true, then why don’t we just have limits on how many mons per team can have Baton Pass instead of a full ban?
They did

They actually did...

still wasn't enough

IIRC they tried 1 boost per pass clause, no more than 2 users, and they banned the move entirely after those didn't work.

Not sure what the issue with dry passing is but ig they figured it was too complex even though it's the same thing as teleport which ruled gen 8.
 
They did

They actually did...

still wasn't enough

IIRC they tried 1 boost per pass clause, no more than 2 users, and they banned the move entirely after those didn't work.

Not sure what the issue with dry passing is but ig they figured it was too complex even though it's the same thing as teleport which ruled gen 8.
If anything, pure dry passing is just switching in the middle of a turn, before or after the opponent's move, depending on speed. As to whether or not thats OP/decentralizing, whatever the current buzzword is, probably remains to be seen. Unfortunately, we have bigger fish to fry and bigger frying pans to leap out of. Lookin at you, Chien-Pao, you fuckin mega weavile demon.
 

Finchinator

no longer Harry’s house
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OU Leader
I know a lot of people are dunking on users concerned the OU council is determined to make stall a mainstay. That said, can we give their grievances a little more validation?

I personally went to Smogon headquarters and snuck into the secret OU council room through the air vents. I’m still shocked by what I saw. Finchinator, stroking his beloved pet Toxepex in one hand, sipping tears from a hollowed Iron Bundle skull in the other, was bathing in a pool of freshly spilled dolphin blood. The rest of the OU council was preparing a Cyclizar to be ritualistically sacrificed to the stall gods. We need to stop their reign of terror before they quick ban our rights and force Jonathon Gamefreak himself to arrest every funny rage Pokémon YouTuber for using fewer than two pink blobs per team.
shit they're onto me
 
I want to talk about how the speed tiers got shaken up by the recent bans, especially of Iron Bundle. The top 5 fastest pokemon available (available doesn't mean viable, just available) are Electrode, Dragapult, Barraskewda, Chein-Pao, and Jolteon to round out the last of the 130+ club. The next 5 fastest are Talonflame, Kilowattrel, Weavile, Meowscarada, and then Noivern in that order.

Some of those pokemon are good, some aren't, and Weavile is basically outclassed by Chien-Pao. However, I do think these top 10 fall in a very interesting speed tier because they are the only pokemon that are faster than Cyclizar. Also, the only available pokemon that are faster than Roaring Moon and which I haven't listed so far are Dugtrio and Wugtrio.

This means that the top 10 fastest available pokemon are the only ones who outspeed Cyclizar and Roaring Moon. This is very valuable so I wanted to find undervalued pokemon in this speed tier.

Obviously, something like Electrode isn't viable and Weavile will never get used in a tier with Chien-Pao. We already know Dragapult and Chien-Pao are good. Talonflame at least has some niches. I for one feel like it is incredibly underrated, but I don't need to keep hammering this every time.

I found two other pokemon that aren't being talked about much:

:Noivern:

I have not yet tried Noivern myself, but I realized that this thing gets both Infiltrator and Boomburst. Boomburst is both an incredibly powerful move and can activate Throat Spray. Based on how broken Aerilate Noivern has been in the less serious game modes that let you change pokemon's abilities, I bet Tera Normal Noivern can hit like a truck. Like if you have Boomburst, a Fire move to hit Steel types like Gholdengo, and whatever coverage (I think Focus Blast) you want, that seems pretty potent.

Another thing Noivern can do is set a support move like Defog or Tailwind. While the opponent could be worried about the threat Noivern might bring, you could potentially get up a support move.

I don't know if you 100% need Infiltrator since sound moves go through Subs anyway, but it likely is still most optimal. The ability to Taunt behind a Sub is probably better than just relying on the Sound Move or Frisk.

:Jolteon:

I have briefly tried out Jolteon with Tera electric for the much needed power, and honestly, it wasn't very good. But then I thought maybe you could try Tera Blast and get a ground beating coverage move. And if we want to beat Cyclizar at the same time, we can choose Tera Ice for that. Fast Volt Switch is pretty handy at times and even something of Jolteon's power can give good chip to a lot of grounds like Great Tusk or Garchomp on neutral coverage. Jolteon resists Make It Rain and hits Gholdengo with Shadow Ball, for whatever that is worth.

Quick Feet was also a bit interesting to me specifically as a means to punish hazard stack. Although this is really about T-spikes. But it's an interesting alternative than always bringing a poison type. Sadly, Electroball isn't nearly as good on Jolteon as it is on was on Regieleki and it is already fast enough where it doesn't exactly need extra speed. But at least you wouldn't have to worry about Choice Scarf or could revenge a +1 Dragon Dance pokemon.

My guess is Jolteon probably belongs in a lower tier, but it's at least worth another look in my opinion.
 
Allow me to present to you the new age mickey mouse technology.....

BIG BOSS (Farigiraf) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Cud Chew
Tera Type: Fairy or something like that
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Thunder Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam

With this set, you can sometimes be kind of annoying to others sometimes. Having a ghost immunity is a nice perk considering there's a few decent ones right now. It's not weak to fighting either. Don't get too excited this doesn't beat annihlape.

Cud Chew is a nice ability because it lets you eat your sitrus berry twice, which allows big boss here to have some decent sustainability.
The main utility of this set is that you can make gholdengo a little bit uncomfy and also pass some decently sized wishes. Very helpful for the fat fucks who don't have that great of recovery. If only it could learn teleport... sad! I chose thunderwave over protect because I always hope that the sitrus will save my ass so I don't need protect, plus it makes it more threatening to would be sweepers (main target is specs pult).

252+ SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Farigiraf: 198-234 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- 22.7% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Farigiraf Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 136-162 (43.1 - 51.4%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO (this isn't a flex but it can hit back just a bit)


252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Farigiraf: 238-282 (53.6 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Farigiraf Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 158-188 (49.8 - 59.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO


The damage calculator is really strange with respects to the treasures of ruin, but it can live a dark pulse from chi-yu that's not specs/life orb. You'll just have to take my word on that. Live the dark pulse, eat the sitrus berry, t wave after living again (?)=profit #trolllogic

Anyways that's all I can really think to say about farigiraf. It is something alright but probably not terribly spectacular but I #love him so it's actually awesome.
 
i find this set of volcarona to be very hard to stop by ladder.... u baton pass a sub to it and then setup on mons and force them out

Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Flamethrower
- Psychic
- Giga Drain

this set lures in clodsire easily, it usually wants to eat hits, toxic you, wall you every day but you pop that tera psychic and blow it out of the water. This set is fine in the fact giga drain rounds of the coverage by railing dodonzo, alolomola, beating blissey with enough boosts, iron thorns, and rotom-wash. Volcarona is stupid good this gen and I hope more people actually use it
 
I've kind of come around on Cyclizar being a big problem in the current meta. Shed Tail is an extremely brainless move that has a gigantic reward for offense on a mon that is not only extremely fast but able to keep itself healthy pretty handily. This thing is not as one dimensional as that, either, as it learns every good utility move you could want, and even has some surprise offense sets I've seen. I really hope this gets looked at again before the long Terra tests begin.
 

TPP

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Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
I've kind of come around on Cyclizar being a big problem in the current meta. Shed Tail is an extremely brainless move that has a gigantic reward for offense on a mon that is not only extremely fast but able to keep itself healthy pretty handily. This thing is not as one dimensional as that, either, as it learns every good utility move you could want, and even has some surprise offense sets I've seen. I really hope this gets looked at again before the long Terra tests begin.
Absolutely this. I’ve actually started seeing Scarf Cyclizar, which OHKOs Dragapult with Knock Off when you give it Attack investment (so whoops there goes your opponent’s single Infiltrator mon) and screws non-Scarf Cyclizar as well. When you start seeing a Pokémon running sets specifically to answer itself because so little else threatens it, there may be a bit of a centralization problem. It’s like how I ran Imprison Flutter Mane during its 15 minutes of fame.
 
Last edited:
Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]
1. Bulky Offense >= Hyper Offense > Stall > Balance in terms of strength.
4. Cetitan has yet to do jack shit in any game I've played, even ones with hail up. Sorry to say it seems completely outclassed among the OU big boys.
5. Scizor. Bullet Punch blows up so much, considering people seem to love spamming weak breakers rn, and Close Combat/Swords Dance keep it from being passive against more defensive teams. Lokix also is a huge threat that I don't think people are respecting on paper nearly enough.
9. Between 7-9. Worth noting I thought SS was like a 4 or 5 so thats a big step up.
10. Extremely not sure. A lot of this hinges on Terastal at the moment, and I have no idea how to feel about that. Gut says probably five - I have hope it gets higher with time, I can see it getting lower.
 
If anything, pure dry passing is just switching in the middle of a turn, before or after the opponent's move, depending on speed. As to whether or not thats OP/decentralizing, whatever the current buzzword is, probably remains to be seen. Unfortunately, we have bigger fish to fry and bigger frying pans to leap out of. Lookin at you, Chien-Pao, you fuckin mega weavile demon.

Ignoring the whole BP having been banned for almost what 10 years now? Dry passing is literally just u-turn/volt switch/parting shot/you get the point. But making it a complex ban sets the expectation that the council will keep making complex bans (which was part of why they didnt iirc). The few mons that lose out on the swaping utility either 1. Are already good on their own or 2. Probably should never have been used in the first place. I remember the hell that was all of the suspects/partials/miles of threads, its not worth a visit. Its not worth testing or making some special case for some fringe use when ultimately passing buffs[shed tail youre next] is busted af.


Edit: my bad, about 5 years if my post history starts around the right time on the account.
 
Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]
1: hyper offense > balance > stall > bulky offense, with a fairly large gap between hyper offense and the other 3
2: ho staples are absolutly espathra cyclizar and grimmsnarl, balance uses a lot of corviknight and dragapult, stall of course runs the likes of clodsire, blissey, and alomamola, and bulky ofense I don't really see enough to say what its staples are
3: I think ttar is a great mon for balance and bulky offense, even fully spdef hits deceptively hard and lives basically every hit while also checking special threats like chi-yu and and ghouldengo's' locked into shadow ball
4: ceruledge, new toy syndrome at its finest, imo this thing is garbage but yet I still see tons of people use it
5: amoongus, spore is so damn valuable in this meta and checking valient, tusk, and dd dragonite are all super important roles for any decently bulky team
6: chi-yu, scarf is great and specs hits so damn hard, great mon, super fun to use
7: either dragapult or corviknight, both are great pokemon that do tons for a team
8: I have not, but I see loaded dice becoming a good option on mons like breloom or mons that get icicle spear
9: probably arround an 8 or a 9, I don't think I like it as much as gen 8 so far, but thats mostly due to one mechanic in particular
10: 4, I find tera both really stupid and really unfun to play around with, pokemon shouldn't be able to just ignore their checks imo, and whenever tera is used against me or I use tera against someone else it just feels cheap and broken, get this shit out of here please.
 
:Noivern:

I have not yet tried Noivern myself, but I realized that this thing gets both Infiltrator and Boomburst. Boomburst is both an incredibly powerful move and can activate Throat Spray. Based on how broken Aerilate Noivern has been in the less serious game modes that let you change pokemon's abilities, I bet Tera Normal Noivern can hit like a truck. Like if you have Boomburst, a Fire move to hit Steel types like Gholdengo, and whatever coverage (I think Focus Blast) you want, that seems pretty potent.

Another thing Noivern can do is set a support move like Defog or Tailwind. While the opponent could be worried about the threat Noivern might bring, you could potentially get up a support move.

I don't know if you 100% need Infiltrator since sound moves go through Subs anyway, but it likely is still most optimal. The ability to Taunt behind a Sub is probably better than just relying on the Sound Move or Frisk.
If we're considering this, Infiltrator is still probably way more worthwhile as long as Screens are a thing, as they seem to be on teams with Cyclizar because of Grimmsnarl and general offensive-setup synergy. Getting around the Sub is only as helpful as the threat you pose past the Sub, which Noivern needs every ounce of power applied it can. Not like Frisk is going to provide any info that outdoes consistent screen and Sub ignorance (Not strictly locked to Boomburst to hit something hiding), and can be preferable given other STAB options like Hurricane or Draco Meteor have similar Base Power (while not being totally free entry for Drag or something like Ghold)
 
Did you know that Finchinator is a secret boss in Scarlet and Violet? Here's my proof:



Just so this isn't a total joke post, I'll leave some questions for discussion:

1) Hyper Offense
2) Bulky Offense
3) Balance
4) Stall

1. Rank the above in terms of how much you prefer the above playstyles and how effective/good they are in your opinion (1 being the best and 4 being the worst)
2. What Pokemon do you think are staples for each playstyle, or are very good for each specific playstyle?
3. What are some fun pokemon you like for each playstyle, or for some playstyles
4. Most overrated Pokemon in your opinion?
5. Most underrated Pokemon in your opinion?
6. Favorite new Generation 9 pokemon to use?
7. Favorite returning Pokemon from Gens 1-8 to use?
8. Have you tried out any of the new items? If so, are there any you like or any that are making a solid impact in OU?
9. On a scale of 1-10, how much are you enjoying SV OU, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most?
10. On a scale of 1-10, how competitive do you find SV OU, with 1 being the least competitive and 10 being the most competitive?

Thanks again for all of the discussion so far. Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and myself and all of the mods and the council look forward to seeing what you all have to share in the near future. Have a nice day :]
HO=1,BO=2,Bal=3,Stall=4
Cyclizar, Glimmora, and Gholdengo are HO staples all the way. They let shit happen so easy.
Dragonite and Roaring Moon for HO, no doubt
Overrated is Annihilape, Underrated is the fire fish imo
Roaring Moon is fave gen 9 to use
To use, id say Dragonite as a returning
New item is booster energy and it works well
I am enjoying SV OU 7 outta 10
I think its competitiveness is also a 7 outta 10, simply because mega weavile and Fuego Fish do so much.
 
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