Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[BolTingBlazie]

• Two bulky new dragons. Conveniently one is electric type, the other is neutral to water, and;
• Kingambit is feeling ridiculous again after a few days of the meta. Not much of the new additions really add much value against gambit

Gouging Fire is actually a really rock solid gambit check though, forcing gambit to run tera fire to avoid getting burnt is funny as hell since it can punish whatever gambit does with its attacks just by using burning bulwark when it low kicks or kowtows. And Gambit really does not like getting burnt as it means it has to sit there and SD for longer or pop a tera fire to avoid burn

 

[Srn]

This discussion thread has been mad fast this past week, really happy to see the activity. With that said, I would like to put a pokemon on the radar. No, it's not Deoxys-Speed. No, it's not Gouging Fire. No, it's not even Serperior or Blaziken or Roaring Moon. I think all of these pokemon should be considered but first and foremost:

It's the cursed monster from Gen 8 Kyurem

I've seen some loaded dice DD sets with Icicle Spear, Scale Shot, and Tera Blast Fire/Fighting/Ground etc and that's cool but I don't think that's particularly broken or anything. What I'm more concerned about is this set:

Kiki (Kyurem) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power

Storm Zone brought this up to me and after a few games and calcs I made up my mind real quick. When I Tera Ice this thing and click Ice Beam / Freeze Dry, it feels a little too unstoppable. Common special pivots like Glowking get straight up 2hko'd, and if it decides to Tera Water, Freeze Dry is blowing it up instead. Crucially, I think this replay shows how badly you push around Blissey. The fact that Ice Beam is forcing so many of its Softboileds so easily is scary before you consider the 10% freeze chances that Blissey is risking each time. I got lucky to get 2 freezes so quickly, but you are realistically going to have ample opportunity to fish for it, which is a real problem. Blissey can't Tera Water to make this any easier to manage, and Tera Steel isn't really an option when you have Walking Wake and Specs/NP Psyshock Gholdengo breathing down your neck.

I think balance is not in too bad of a position right now, and to keep that true, I think it might be time to take a closer look at this mon.

Kyurem Damage

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Slowking-Galar: 312-368 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 169-199 (49.5 - 58.3%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 158-187 (50.1 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Nah it gives Smeargle pretty good niche. And honestly Deoxys-S wouldn’t have much of a miche either if it was JUST Stealth Rock + Spikes. It’s more than that as it has nuke in Psycho Boost, other potential sets like Screens or offensive, and has 4th move options like Teleport, Taunt, and Skill Swap.
Smeargle learning every move besides a handful is always going to provide something for your team too.

My favorite niche with Smeargle is the following set I currently experiment with:

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Ghost / Normal / Stellar
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash or Shift Gear
- Population Bomb
- Coil
- Spore

Thanks to Coil Population Bomb cannot miss.

Obviously Ghosts and Priority mess you up but nonetheless the Power is crazy:

+3 252 Atk Technician Smeargle Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 390-460 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- approx. 25% chance to OHKO

That means anything with less bulk leads to an OHKO

 

[658Greninja]

I’m glad Srn brought up Kyurem, because I wanted to highlight another scary set. You remember the hellbringer that was Sub-Roost? Well say hello to Sub-Tect cause it lost Roost.

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Steel/Ground
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power

You know what it does. Sub guards it from status, the 56 HP EVs ensures Blissey doesn’t break the Sub with Seismic Toss, and it lets you click buttons freely like a toddler in the control panel of the Pentagon. Despite the loss of Roost, this set is arguably even better in SV for two reasons.

-All recovery moves (minus Strength Sap lol) have been nerfed to 8pp, so exhausting all that pp became much easier.

-Tera lets it defensively react to certain matchups. For example, Glowking and Garg can naturally break the Sub, but a Tera Steel or Tera Ground later and Kyu can shit on them. The latter Tera boosts EP to illegal levels of power. Think your Dragapult can rkill it? Tera Steel babyy. Let’s not forget that Protect has the added benefit of letting Kyu scout enemy options and react accordingly, the main advantage over having Roost.

As of right now, Kyurem is kept in check by the faster paced metagame compared to Gen 8 which was mostly BO/Balance. Loaded Dice, Specs, and Sub-Tect sets have the unfortunate circumstance of needing rocks off the field, in a meta where hazard removal is limited to a few scarce options. It’s not broken now, but it most likely will be as the meta becomes slower. If it ever gets banned, it will be for the same reason as in Gen 8, too many sets that have varied checks to each set.

 

[Lethargic]

This discussion thread has been mad fast this past week, really happy to see the activity. With that said, I would like to put a pokemon on the radar. No, it's not Deoxys-Speed. No, it's not Gouging Fire. No, it's not even Serperior or Blaziken or Roaring Moon. I think all of these pokemon should be considered but first and foremost:

It's the cursed monster from Gen 8 Kyurem

I've seen some loaded dice DD sets with Icicle Spear, Scale Shot, and Tera Blast Fire/Fighting/Ground etc and that's cool but I don't think that's particularly broken or anything. What I'm more concerned about is this set:

Kiki (Kyurem) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power

Storm Zone brought this up to me and after a few games and calcs I made up my mind real quick. When I Tera Ice this thing and click Ice Beam / Freeze Dry, it feels a little too unstoppable. Common special pivots like Glowking get straight up 2hko'd, and if it decides to Tera Water, Freeze Dry is blowing it up instead. Crucially, I think this replay shows how badly you push around Blissey. The fact that Ice Beam is forcing so many of its Softboileds so easily is scary before you consider the 10% freeze chances that Blissey is risking each time. I got lucky to get 2 freezes so quickly, but you are realistically going to have ample opportunity to fish for it, which is a real problem. Blissey can't Tera Water to make this any easier to manage, and Tera Steel isn't really an option when you have Walking Wake and Specs/NP Psyshock Gholdengo breathing down your neck.

I think balance is not in too bad of a position right now, and to keep that true, I think it might be time to take a closer look at this mon.

Kyurem Damage

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Slowking-Galar: 312-368 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 169-199 (49.5 - 58.3%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 158-187 (50.1 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I’m just curious, what separates this from something like hoopa-u for you? Just being a better mon overall means less opportunity cost against non-stall matchups, being harder to revenge kill with priority, less one-dimensional? Not saying kyurem isn’t way better than hoopa but if anything I’d think blissey/stall/slow balance will always struggle against these heavy hitters like banded rila or specs hoopa/kyurem. Just my two cents haven’t reached any final conclusions.

 

[Srn]

I’m just curious, what separates this from something like hoopa-u for you? Just being a better mon overall means less opportunity cost against non-stall matchups, being harder to revenge kill with priority, less one-dimensional? Not saying kyurem isn’t way better than hoopa but if anything I’d think blissey/stall/slow balance will always struggle against these heavy hitters like banded rila or specs hoopa/kyurem. Just my two cents haven’t reached any final conclusions.

Better speed tier, beating out tusk, exca, super crowded base 85s that hoopa loses to, is very important.

Better defensive utility and bulk is also nice, rocks weakness aside. Kyurem reliably handles stuff like rotom-w, waterpon, zapdos, cleanly revenge kills raging bolt, and in general needs less support to get into a position to kill stuff.

 

[kosecant]

I’m just curious, what separates this from something like hoopa-u for you? Just being a better mon overall means less opportunity cost against non-stall matchups, being harder to revenge kill with priority, less one-dimensional? Not saying kyurem isn’t way better than hoopa but if anything I’d think blissey/stall/slow balance will always struggle against these heavy hitters like banded rila or specs hoopa/kyurem. Just my two cents haven’t reached any final conclusions.

Kyurem not only has much better better bulk and a way better typing than hoopa-u, but also has a much more usable base 95 speed, which makes is much harder to deal with for many teams.

edit lmao sniped

 

[UnholyKidd]

This discussion thread has been mad fast this past week, really happy to see the activity. With that said, I would like to put a pokemon on the radar. No, it's not Deoxys-Speed. No, it's not Gouging Fire. No, it's not even Serperior or Blaziken or Roaring Moon. I think all of these pokemon should be considered but first and foremost:

It's the cursed monster from Gen 8 Kyurem

I've seen some loaded dice DD sets with Icicle Spear, Scale Shot, and Tera Blast Fire/Fighting/Ground etc and that's cool but I don't think that's particularly broken or anything. What I'm more concerned about is this set:

Kiki (Kyurem) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power

Storm Zone brought this up to me and after a few games and calcs I made up my mind real quick. When I Tera Ice this thing and click Ice Beam / Freeze Dry, it feels a little too unstoppable. Common special pivots like Glowking get straight up 2hko'd, and if it decides to Tera Water, Freeze Dry is blowing it up instead. Crucially, I think this replay shows how badly you push around Blissey. The fact that Ice Beam is forcing so many of its Softboileds so easily is scary before you consider the 10% freeze chances that Blissey is risking each time. I got lucky to get 2 freezes so quickly, but you are realistically going to have ample opportunity to fish for it, which is a real problem. Blissey can't Tera Water to make this any easier to manage, and Tera Steel isn't really an option when you have Walking Wake and Specs/NP Psyshock Gholdengo breathing down your neck.

I think balance is not in too bad of a position right now, and to keep that true, I think it might be time to take a closer look at this mon.

Kyurem Damage

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Slowking-Galar: 312-368 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 169-199 (49.5 - 58.3%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Ice Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 158-187 (50.1 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You'd think the main source of damage of this Kyurem would be Draco Meteor.. Ive just calced through the steel types i think would be relevant + Gouging Fire. I found a few things.

Gouging Fire

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gouging Fire: 678-798 (163.7 - 192.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gouging Fire: 444-524 (107.2 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Steel

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Archaludon: 328-387 (85.4 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Archaludon: 214-253 (55.7 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 127-150 (31.8 - 37.5%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 84-99 (21 - 24.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 171-202 (45.2 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 112-132 (29.6 - 34.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 182-215 (45.3 - 53.6%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Dragon Pulse vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 119-141 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

These calcs have me think that there is not even a necessity for Draco Meteor, theoretically allowing Kyurem to run the more spammable option Dragon Pulse in a lot of instances. Sure, this doesnt include a lot of defensive options, but just to open up a bit of perspective. If Kyurem can use Dragon Pulse over Draco Meteor, i think it would just be too forgiving to spam, and even if it cant, the damage output of Draco Meteor is just crazy.

 

[Tio Chico]

Set

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 52 SpD / 132 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Protect
- Icicle Spear

It's my Kyurem, SS EVs I assume, outspeed Dragapult after a DD.
Although Encore weighs a lot, Protect + Pressure requires the use of half of Encore PP at once.
For now combining with Galar-King to cover Fight and Fairy, as well as momentum and Snow.
Heatran for Dondozo and others Unaware. Latias Healing Wish. Yes, it requires a lot of support but it still works.
There's still a lot to adapt to but it's been a great wincon for Sun/Rain meta. As you climb the ladder you lose a little effectiveness because Seed squads or Deoxys-Speed just run over everything, it's not the time for Balance (if that day ever comes).
New and old toys, maybe this end of the year will still be a great time to play and enjoy before the necessary measures are taken, but I'm already satisfied.

In fact, it's too early to talk about how Deoxys-S is oppressive, Gliscor is annoying, Paradox Entei and Terrakion are scary, and especially the inevitable; Terastal?

 

[Revelation]

So, a question - With Gen IX effectively complete, who're you guys favourite of the new mons? Feel free to give your reasoning.

Quaquaval, Iron Valiant, Tinkaton, Iron Bundle and Lokix for sure

I really got fed this gen, design wise

 

[Marce]

So, a question - With Gen IX effectively complete, who're you guys favourite of the new mons? Feel free to give your reasoning.

Tinkaton is definitely a new favorite, though runners-up go to Ogerpon, Meowscarada, and (design wise, lol) Terapagos.

 

[RUrena888]

oh shit, i didn't even realize it got wave crash and ice spinner now. water/ice/ground is damn good coverage (really, ice/ground/anything is), water into tera ground seems solid for luring electric-types and getting a shell smash up against them, and wave crash is incredibly strong—the recoil can even be a benefit sometimes if it knocks blastoise into torrent range to give it a boost (though it'll probably end up dying to recoil after the next usage of it). between those and the lack of a rocks weakness, this might have one over on cloyster as a late-game shell smash sweeper, as long as you have a teammate who can get opposing bulky waters out of the way. this seems like it could be the decent beginnings of a set, but i don't want to get ahead of myself, so i'll defer to an expert at using niche pokemon in ou. Morkal, would you mind taking a look at this when you have a free moment?

The optimism I was looking for ! You’re the man!

 

[BolTingBlazie]

I’m just curious, what separates this from something like hoopa-u for you? Just being a better mon overall means less opportunity cost against non-stall matchups, being harder to revenge kill with priority, less one-dimensional? Not saying kyurem isn’t way better than hoopa but if anything I’d think blissey/stall/slow balance will always struggle against these heavy hitters like banded rila or specs hoopa/kyurem. Just my two cents haven’t reached any final conclusions.

Bulkier and you can set up veil and snow for it to make it really fat

 

[pmfg10]

Comfey is soooooooo good

 

[Some random freak]

So, a question - With Gen IX effectively complete, who're you guys favourite of the new mons? Feel free to give your reasoning.

I've been playing since gen 1 and I can confidently say that gen 9 has my third favourite batch of designs behind gens 3 and 1 with Maushold, Scovillain, Ogrepon, Baxcalibur, Hydrapple, Tinkaton, Annilhilape, Cetitan, Rabsca, Ceruledge, Slither Wing, Iron Valiant and the ruinous quartet being the standouts.

Also, thanks to power creep, a lot of my favourites are actually viable for once (RIP Falinks, maybe next game you'll get something.)

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I’m glad Srn brought up Kyurem, because I wanted to highlight another scary set. You remember the hellbringer that was Sub-Roost? Well say hello to Sub-Tect cause it lost Roost.

View attachment 582536
Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Steel/Ground
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power

You know what it does. Sub guards it from status, the 56 HP EVs ensures Blissey doesn’t break the Sub with Seismic Toss, and it lets you click buttons freely like a toddler in the control panel of the Pentagon. Despite the loss of Roost, this set is arguably even better in SV for two reasons.

-All recovery moves (minus Strength Sap lol) have been nerfed to 8pp, so exhausting all that pp became much easier.

-Tera lets it defensively react to certain matchups. For example, Glowking and Garg can naturally break the Sub, but a Tera Steel or Tera Ground later and Kyu can shit on them. The latter Tera boosts EP to illegal levels of power. Think your Dragapult can rkill it? Tera Steel babyy. Let’s not forget that Protect has the added benefit of letting Kyu scout enemy options and react accordingly, the main advantage over having Roost.

As of right now, Kyurem is kept in check by the faster paced metagame compared to Gen 8 which was mostly BO/Balance. Loaded Dice, Specs, and Sub-Tect sets have the unfortunate circumstance of needing rocks off the field, in a meta where hazard removal is limited to a few scarce options. It’s not broken now, but it most likely will be as the meta becomes slower. If it ever gets banned, it will be for the same reason as in Gen 8, too many sets that have varied checks to each set.

another thing about this is that protect is even easier to burn opponents' pp with than roost because it lets the sub stay intact for longer. positioned correctly, if your opponent has an 8-pp move, it takes all of their pp to hit kyurem with it once—they burn 2 on protect, 2 breaking the sub, 2 on the second protect, and 2 actually hitting you, and that's discounting the fact that you can re-sub on the second turn if you're slower or on the fourth turn if you're faster. of course, the opponent can switch moves or switch out, but this is just a simple example of how easy it is for kyurem to destroy your pp

 

[UnusualBoy]

What I noticed is that December and January will the months of the dragons, the tier has lots of them:

Dragapult
Dragonite
Roaring Moon
Walking Wake
Gouging Fire
Raiku with long ass neck
Archaludon
Latios
Latias (Considering how much I’ve seen her, she’ll be OU at least this month)
Hydrapple (I think she can make it this month)
Garchomp (Unlikely but may sneaking in)
Kyurem

A win for us the dragon lovers :)

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

What I noticed is that December and January will the months of the dragons, the tier has lots of them:

Dragapult
Dragonite
Roaring Moon
Walking Wake
Gouging Fire
Raiku with long ass neck
Archaludon
Latios
Latias (Considering how much I’ve seen her, she’ll be OU at least this month)
Hydrapple (I think she can make it this month)
Garchomp (Unlikely but may sneaking in)
Kyurem

A win for us the dragon lovers :)

it took them four and a half gens, but the dragons have finally taken ou back from the fairies. and yet, the war continues. they must remain vigilant, for enamorus has grown more powerful than ever, and her tera fairy spies lurk around every corner, even amongst their fellow dragons. meanwhile, two of the dragons' top generals, roaring moon and kyurem, are at risk of being thrust into the unsavory spotlight of the ban radar and cast into the chaotic wasteland known only as "ubers"—a nightmare from which they are both among the few mons to escape and tell the tale. will the dragons be able to keep their newly gained hold on ou? and will they ever discover what happened to their old ally magnezone? find out on the next episode of DRAGON TYPE Z!

 

[Neosonic97]

Seeing Darkrai be mid in OU made me wonder for a moment if Shaymin-Sky could also be retested (its stats are very similar to Darkrai, after all, being a bit weaker but faster, and while it has higher HP it's offset by lower defenses), but then I immediately axed that idea because unlike Darkrai:
A: Shaymin-S isn't wanting for power on its STAB due to the extreme power of Seed Flare, even with Grass as a relatively bad attacking type (but not that bad, as Seed Flare does obliterate known OU staple Great Tusk), which can also potentially cheese its way past checks in a manner similar to Latios thanks to its effect (and does so more consistently than Latios' Luster Purge thanks to the fact it's a -2 drop and Serene Grace makes it more likely to proc).
B: It's immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web thanks to its Flying-typing.
C: That tiny bit of extra speed matters more than one would expect as it speedcreeps Darkrai...
And most important of all, D: It STILL does Serene Grace Air Slash shenanigans as it always has- which is the main point it has over Darkrai- it actually has an ability.

 

[Rootb]

Seeing Darkrai be mid in OU made me wonder for a moment if Shaymin-Sky could also be retested (its stats are very similar to Darkrai, after all, being a bit weaker but faster, and while it has higher HP it's offset by lower defenses), but then I immediately axed that idea because unlike Darkrai:
A: Shaymin-S isn't wanting for power on its STAB due to the extreme power of Seed Flare, even with Grass as a relatively bad attacking type (but not that bad, as Seed Flare does obliterate known OU staple Great Tusk), which can also potentially cheese its way past checks in a manner similar to Latios thanks to its effect (and does so more consistently than Latios' Luster Purge thanks to the fact it's a -2 drop and Serene Grace makes it more likely to proc).
B: It's immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web thanks to its Flying-typing.
C: That tiny bit of extra speed matters more than one would expect as it speedcreeps Darkrai...
And most important of all, D: It STILL does Serene Grace Air Slash shenanigans as it always has- which is the main point it has over Darkrai- it actually has an ability.

Short answer: no.
Long answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Actual answer: Skymin is the least healthy pokemon ever designed. Yes, less healthy than that one. And that one. And any other one you can think of. On average, a Pokémon with less than 127 base speed will not get a turn when it clicks air slash.

We'd be better off freeing Espathra than giving that damn thing another shot, and that bird is a certified Ruiner of Metagames.

 

[Morkal]

Seeing Darkrai be mid in OU made me wonder for a moment if Shaymin-Sky could also be retested (its stats are very similar to Darkrai, after all, being a bit weaker but faster, and while it has higher HP it's offset by lower defenses), but then I immediately axed that idea because unlike Darkrai:
A: Shaymin-S isn't wanting for power on its STAB options due to the extreme power of Seed Flare, even with Grass as a relatively bad attacking type, which can also potentially cheese its way past checks in a manner similar to Latios thanks to its effect (and does so more consistently than Latios' Luster Purge thanks to the fact it's a -2 drop and Serene Grace makes it more likely to proc).
B: It's immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web thanks to its Flying-typing.
C: That tiny bit of extra speed matters more than one would expect as it speedcreeps Darkrai...
And most important of all, D: It STILL does Serene Grace Air Slash shenanigans as it always has- which is the main point it has over Darkrai- it actually has an ability.

​

Personally, as much as I'm for the concept of retesting aged Ubers in OU (as we've seen, Darkrai is pretty balanced in OU and imo feels like a breath of fresh air in the tier), I feel that Skymin would NOT be a positive presence for OU. Let me explain my perspective on this -

• The speed tier - Skymin has a base speed of 127, two points higher than Darkrai and outsped only by Talonflame, Jolteon, Barraskewda, Zamazenta, Dragapult, Electrode/Electrode-H, and Deoxys-S. While this speed tier could be manageable normally, it's not manageable on Skymin due to Serene Grace Air Slash flinching - this means that if you're not faster than Skymin, there's a 60% chance you're not doing anything that turn.
• Terastallization has only made Skymin better and given it the tools to break through would-be checks/counters in addition to shoring up its defensive woes and gaining additional STAB.
• The immunity to hazards + the stellar way that Serene Grace compliments Skymin's movepool (giving Earth Power a 20% chance to drop the opponent's special defense by one stage and STAB Seed Flare an 80% chance to drop the opponent's special defense by two stages), it's just too much.
• Skymin's utility access to Leech Seed + Substitute, Healing Wish, boosting in Swords Dance, Tailwind, the newly acquired STAB Trailblaze, and other options means Skymin has too many options and teambuilding would be stretched too thin.

There are other Ubers Pokemon that could potentially be tested in OU down the line in my opinion (such as maybe ), but Skymin is not one of them in any way, shape, or form.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Seeing Darkrai be mid in OU made me wonder for a moment if Shaymin-Sky could also be retested (its stats are very similar to Darkrai, after all, being a bit weaker but faster, and while it has higher HP it's offset by lower defenses), but then I immediately axed that idea because unlike Darkrai:
A: Shaymin-S isn't wanting for power on its STAB due to the extreme power of Seed Flare, even with Grass as a relatively bad attacking type (but not that bad, as Seed Flare does obliterate known OU staple Great Tusk), which can also potentially cheese its way past checks in a manner similar to Latios thanks to its effect (and does so more consistently than Latios' Luster Purge thanks to the fact it's a -2 drop and Serene Grace makes it more likely to proc).
B: It's immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web thanks to its Flying-typing.
C: That tiny bit of extra speed matters more than one would expect as it speedcreeps Darkrai...
And most important of all, D: It STILL does Serene Grace Air Slash shenanigans as it always has- which is the main point it has over Darkrai- it actually has an ability.

i'm very glad that you immediately realized how terrible the idea to test skymin would be; analyzing your own impulses like that shows maturity and wisdom. speaking of maturity and wisdom, here are my detailed and comprehensive thoughts on the matter of testing skymin:

 

[somebodyuknow2]

but this is just a simple example of how easy it is for kyurem to destroy your pp

phrasing
What are everyone's thoughts on Gliscor? I haven't played new meta that much but I don't feel that anything major has changed about the difficulty of killing gliscor and removing hazards. The only slight nerf is that gholdengo isn't doing quite as well right now, which makes the Gliscor-Gholdengo core not as common. It's still just as annoying to me as it was pre DLC, but maybe i'm not innovating enough or missing forms of counterplay.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

And most important of all, D: It STILL does Serene Grace Air Slash shenanigans as it always has- which is the main point it has over Darkrai- it actually has an ability.

Thank you for at least admitting this in your original post, base 127 speed 60% flinches turns the game of pokemon into a grand gameshow of Test Your Luck, featuring Sticky Webs (to slow down other mons), Psychic Terrain (for anti-priority) and our star, , who will be hosting this season's first challenge (drumroll please....)

Can you beat the stupid flying thingy with that 40% Chance? (or run clear body pult)

Previous highlights of Test Your Luck so far
Lavos's ragequit
Tempt6t's whole channel

Nah, but being honest any meta with only 3 mons not rolling the dice each time (in practice only one, clear body due to webs). Seems like a recipe for salt for me.

it took them four and a half gens, but the dragons have finally taken ou back from the fairies. and yet, the war continues. they must remain vigilant, for enamorus has grown more powerful than ever, and her tera fairy spies lurk around every corner, even amongst their fellow dragons. meanwhile, two of the dragons' top generals, roaring moon and kyurem, are at risk of being thrust into the unsavory spotlight of the ban radar and cast into the chaotic wasteland known only as "ubers"—a nightmare from which they are both among the few mons to escape and tell the tale. will the dragons be able to keep their newly gained hold on ou? and will they ever discover what happened to their old ally magnezone? find out on the next episode of DRAGON TYPE Z!

Somebody give this bro a medal and/or a custom title that says 'Most Funny OU Forum Poster'

 

[Neosonic97]

There are other potential Ubers Pokemon that could potentially be tested in OU down the line in my opinion (such as ), but Skymin is not one of them in any way, shape, or form.

The main thing I disagree with in your post is the mention of .

I don't see it being healthy in OU. Too much bulk on an actually good defensive typing, (and no, comparisons to don't work, as the sun lion has 57 more base HP than Metagross) to say nothing about its wide movepool (remember, a ridiculously wide movepool alongside uber-tier stats is what eventually got banned- YES, I know Solgaleo doesn't quite have the one-button wonder of Tera Starstorm OR Stored Power for that manner). Especially since it also has reliable recovery (and sun is the best weather in the meta right now, making Morning Sun even better) AND Cosmic Power. Heck, it can even pivot with Teleport.

You'd be giving Sun Teams even more carte blanche to wreak havoc on the tier, moreso than they already are with things like Gouging Fire, Raging Bolt and the return of Venusaur. It'd give Sun Teams the mother of all defensive pivots.

So yeah, keep Solgaleo the hell away from OU, please.