I believe it's rounded to the nearest 1/48th, if I'm mistaken on that then yes, I would definitely support it being changed to do so, or even just to report the number as the nearest increment of 1/48.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
sure, but taking the time to do this every turn isn’t going to happen in practice
Hp percentages are basically irrelevant to this discussion, because unlike Sleep Clause, they don't actually affect game states.
This is a trap question designed to invalidate the opinion of anyone who answers it in your eyes: either we commit all the way for the sake of cart accuracy and agree to get rid of a QoL change that people would be upset about removing, turning public opinion against us, or we pick and choose what we want to be cart accurate about, undermining the argument. It’s bait, which is a jerk thing to do.
Fwiw, there’s a big difference between mods that affect QoL and mods that affect actual gameplay. Using the former to validate the latter is like using tiering decisions in ND or Doubles to make tiering decisions here: they just aren’t related and don’t have an affect on each other. PS is meant as a free and easy way to play Pokémon (which is needed from that $80CAD price tag). We’re still playing Pokémon with QoL changes, but we’re not when adjusting gameplay mechs.
It’s a yes or no question. If you have an answer, you should be able to defend your position. Stop projecting.
In a debate, it’s normal to try to defeat people’s arguments. As for being a trap, the question is simple and isn’t loaded at all, you can answer no without assuming any part of the question. So if it undermines your argument, your argument is bad and isn’t because of the question being loaded.
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This doesn't matter. We can use an impartial judge and calcs to do what we do. Would someone do this every turn? Likely not. Is it replicable on cart play? To my understanding, yes it is.
There's a huge difference between the two.
It is perfectly possible to tell the judge what HP your mon actually has, then they just whip out a calculator and write the percent on the board for your opponent. Boom, HP percent mod.
When you accidentally put the other guy's mon to sleep because they switched out their sleeping mon, what is the judge even supposed to do? DQ you? That's already different from the mechanics here.
If you kept reading, you would’ve seen that I did answer it.
As for your point about knowing how much you did affecting decisions, it’s kind of irrelevant for 2 reasons:
1. Everything is a role. If you do 50% one turn, you can do 48% the next and they can live. If you gauges your damage range before turn 1, you know whether or not you have a guaranteed 2hko. This ties into the next point:
2. Knowing the actual percent done isn’t important, knowing if you have a 2hko/3hko is, which is easy to do with a 48pixel bar. If necessary, it is possible to get a ruler for your game to figure it out
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ATTENTION. BASED TAKE ABOVE. PLEASE LEAVE BEHIND ANY CRINGE OPINIONS WHEN ENTERING THE AREA!!!!
But seriously though, do y'all remember before Darkrai was unbanned? Hypnosis wasn't even on the top 3 Valiant sets. It was considered an option for a wasted 4th slot, a Hail Mary, a sidegrade to Destiny Bond if anything, and of course very, very outclassed by Encore. Even without Gliscor we had plenty of sleep absorbers (sus shroom, dozo, hatt, pex, ghold) and plenty of mons that won even after a hypnosis (glowking, dirge, clod). And, although some people claim otherwise, I did not see a single red card spore amoonguss or sleep powder lilligant-h on ladder, nor did I even see either of those pokemon at all, really. So what changed? The only thing I can think of is that Sun, and by proxy Lilligant-H is more viable with Gouging Fire and Roaring Moon being released, and Zapdos isn't quite as common, buffing Valiant slightly. This doesn't seem like enough to do a complete 180 and say the moves are broken, does it? It becomes increasingly clear that DARKRAI IS THE ISSUE. It has a fast speed tier, fast boosting, decent bulk, and coverage and power enough to threaten the entire tier. These qualities PLUS sleep are the issue, and even lacking a few of them (ival lacks coverage and fast boosting, amoonguss lacks ability to capitalize on its own sleep, lilligant lacks bulk and a good speed tier outside of sun) can keep something not busted.
That being said, if you want to ban Sleep because you think it's inherently a stupid mechanic and our current Sleep Clause is a product of an older smogon with less restrictions, that's fine.
Yeah I saw and I’m not saying it’s indefensible. The first paragraph with the personal attacks was unnecessary.
Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe or 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics / Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Jaw Lock
- Taunt
Jaw Lock traps any would-be switch ins to Dragon Dance Roaring Moon and combined with Taunt, can stifle attempts to deal with it such as Haze, status or phasing moves. Combined with Tera Flying, one attack variants of Ting-Lu and Gliscor are left completely helpless. Acrobatics naturally gets a nice boost from Tera Flying, but Roost can be slotted in if you want the ability to deal with walls who might have some more bite to them.
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe or 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics / Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Jaw Lock
- Taunt
Jaw Lock traps any would-be switch ins to Dragon Dance Roaring Moon and combined with Taunt, can stifle attempts to deal with it such as Haze, status or phasing moves. Combined with Tera Flying, one attack variants of Ting-Lu and Gliscor are left completely helpless. Acrobatics naturally gets a nice boost from Tera Flying, but Roost can be slotted in if you want the ability to deal with walls who might have some more bite to them.
1) As of Gen 8, the HP bar is sufficiently precise to show HP percentages out of 100, so it is no longer a mod. Even in cart formats, Showdown shows HP out of 100 in Gen 8 and onwards.
2) HP Percentage mod can be considered a near-objective improvement, since most people are used to working in the 100% system. Not having to work with numbers out of 48 in your head is where the "we play the game for fun" argument is sufficient. Sleep with Sleep Clause is at best, a subjective improvement to the game, and there is not a clear overwhelming consensus that it actually improves the game either.
3) HP Percentage mod is much less invasive, since players will make the same decisions in almost all scenarios. Sleep Clause fundamentally alters the way that sleep-inducing moves work and no other status condition works the same way that sleep does.
You’re the one trying to vilify people arguing for cart accuracy, and as one of those people, I don’t appreciate it
give me an example where there was vilification. Actually, I can but by you
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Can people not use Baton Pass as an example of specific/complex bans not working when oldgens exist and metas like Gen 3 OU would be way worse without Baton Pass?
For the people who think that "Baton Pass is inherently bad" has won the war uniltaterally: you're just wrong. There are several prominent communities that would fight very hard to keep Baton Pass in their metas. Deciding that a mechanic just does not work in Singles, 9 different generations, is not remotely true.
A lot of people seemingly ignore oldgens or just like to pretend that it's just the factual truth that things like DryPass, or even StatPassing without chains has been a disaster. Sometimes it's worth it to go through the effort to keep a mechanic when it enriches the metagame so heavily, and Gen 4 OU also unbanned DryPass a month ago.
Homogenization of all generations will not work. Still, I believe that following the cartridge is a necessity when possible, and that is why I have a major problem with Sleep Mod Clause.
Reread my first reply, I explained it there why your question came off as antagonistic. I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings, but disregarding an argument that you disagree with EVEN THOUGH it is clearly outlined in tiering policy as a goal of the Smogon “institution” is being counterproductive to what we are trying to achieve here and a rude action to take against those arguing for it. If you disagree with the cart accuracy argument so much, I’d recommend you lay out your reasoning rather than laying bait, which is an antagonistic action that you chose to take. If you didn’t mean to lay bait, you may want to consider rereading your posts and trying to take another look to ensure it isn’t antagonistic
I think the most important thing in your survey is to correctly phrase the question about Sleep. If it's a simple question "what do you think of Sleep in the SV OU format", the risk is that a lot of people put 1 or 2 thinking that it's balanced, without taking into account the makes sleep "balanced" via the sleep clause, a complex ban in mod form.
The question asked should directly relate to Sleep Clause.
It currently is phrased as:
Recently we have seen an uptick in sleep based strategies including Hypnosis Darkrai and Iron Valiant (neither Pokemon is on this current survey); there has been a great deal of discussion surrounding the variable outcomes these strategies may produce. In addition, there has been discussion about how Sleep Clause can be seen as incomplete to the solution, leading to some support for a full fix.
Multiple threads on the topic of sleep moves and the restructuring of sleep clause have been posted, including the Policy Review thread here!
Do you support tiering action on sleep inducing moves? 1: balanced - 3 potentially banworthy - 5 banworthy
just take your own advice and lay out your arguments instead of vilifying people
you threw out accusations without even giving an example. You just assumed bad intentions without any evidence
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I literally laid out why your post was bait. At this point you’re arguing in bad faith and not willing to hear me out, so I will not be continuing the conversation if you reply. I hope you’re having a good day and have fun in the community. Best of luck
Same
darkrai, your days at the top are up
For you nothing you believed you were
you are no titan, you are no threat, you are me
a inferior me
without me you wouldn’t be here, for all you do is mere imitation of me
its over for you
now ”darkrai” bow down to me, bow down to the real darkrai
focus sash triggers boosted acrobatics allowing jumpy to go ham if sleep misses
The unholy (Jumpluff) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Acrobatics
- Strength Sap
- Seed Bomb
jumpluff isn’t the darkrai of PU, darkrai is the jumpluff of ou, jumpluff is better,
jumpluff cannot be banned, but cannot be balanced, allowing jumpluff to reign without counter
jumpluff
For you nothing you believed you were
you are no titan, you are no threat, you are me
a inferior me
without me you wouldn’t be here, for all you do is mere imitation of me
its over for you
now ”darkrai” bow down to me, bow down to the real darkrai
focus sash triggers boosted acrobatics allowing jumpy to go ham if sleep misses
The unholy (Jumpluff) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Acrobatics
- Strength Sap
- Seed Bomb
jumpluff isn’t the darkrai of PU, darkrai is the jumpluff of ou, jumpluff is better,
jumpluff cannot be banned, but cannot be balanced, allowing jumpluff to reign without counter
jumpluff
Imagine the headlines.
SMOGON BANS SLEEP BECAUSE THEY DEEM IT TOO “UNCOMPETITIVE”.
SMOGON BANS SLEEP BECAUSE THEY DEEM IT TOO “UNCOMPETITIVE”.
The people who would make those kind of "headlines" (or video titles...) would find a way to make garbage clickbait no matter what we do, because they're grifters who don't understand the suspect process and don't care to as long as there's money to be made shitting on Smogon to a casual audience.