This really bringing a tear to my eye rn. Look at this crew you've got 6 mons all released in the past 4 years defending the dragon types honor, and then you've got that smug bastard Kyurem from gen 5 in the corner looking like he knows he's broken. You've got the entire paradox legendary dog trio paying homage to some real OGs. And then you have Dragonite, the original pseudo, the original dragon, my favorite pokemon of all time, waving peacefully like grandpa in the back.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Rotom-Fridge:
I’m definitely willing to test it, but personally I will NEVER agree that gen 9 Zam-C is worse than gen 9 Zam-H. It takes the Body Press set and just jacks it up to 11 with a better defensive typing, better mixed bulk, stronger Body Presses, Toxic immunity, and STAB on the Steel moves they both run to hit Fairies.I do think a mistake coming into DLC 2 is that we didn't drop
A lot of people felt thatwas better when they were both allowed, and it turned out
DLC 2 would have been a great time to retest him
has tools to deal with meta mons like
,
and
that
probably
Either way, that time has passed and we probably won't see him in OU this generation
Losing an item and some speed is worth it if you get much better defenses, a steel typing and a 100bp steel move. Zam-C is so much better, it's not even much of a contest. The only thing even remotely holding it back is no item, otherwise it would be ridiculous.
Yeah, but
sucks in comparison to Eleki- probably moreso than it already just sucks as a Pokémon in general. is...A: Much slower, only being a below average base 86 as opposed to "literal fastest in the game" Base 200. Outspeeding Eleki is practically impossible- Even
and 
, themselves already quite fast naturally, cannot even speed tie it, even with a scarf and max speed investment. (Max Speed Timid Scarfed Lati twins hit 525 speed as opposed to Eleki's 548).B: Notably weaker due to Eleki's Transistor ability, at least with its Electric-type STAB- Tera Blast Ice beating the things that would stop Eleki's souped up Electric-type moves is the entire problem, especially since outspeeding Eleki is, as we all know, practically impossible.
C: Actually an Ice-type, which as we all know is a defensive liability, especially with
's subpar speedD: Actually less bulky than Eleki, too- it may have slightly higher defense and special defense but this is offset by its cruddy Base 50 HP.
There is a reason why the fridge is widely considered to be the worst Rotom form not named Rotom-Fan (and let's be real here,
is a joke anyway)- it fails to compete even with the other Rotom forms, let alone this monster: 
This is also exacerbated by the reduced presence of Ground-types in DLC2's meta,
is still around, and 
is still doing things, yes, but the usage of 
, 
and 
have all dropped dramatically, and 
isn't very common either. Yeah, we do have , 
and , who all resist Electric but are not weak to Ice, but Eleki could merely adopt a different Tera Type like Ground to beat them (Which also has the added benefit of preventing 
from revenge killing with Thunderclap), and you wouldn't be any the wiser until Eleki actually Terastalizes, meaning they wouldn't be safe at all.In other words: Only if/when Tera goes can we talk about returning
to the metagame. Otherwise, not a chance.
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Just say you want the meta to be in a less stable position to help your anti-tera position lol.
The meta hasn't changed an awful lot in the last 2 weeks or so. I don't see what you're waiting to develop.
If anything, having a lot of mons be borderline is the best point for discussion to occur. There's a lot to discuss the merits and issues with the current meta, completely removed from speculation. How does Tera limit mons like gouging flame and raging bolt? How does it promote the controversial aspects to mons like Iron Boulder and Roaring Moon? How would it affect the hazard metagame? This is the point where almost every aspect of tera is somewhat viable, and shouldn't be ignored.
If we do wait and start banning other things prior to the tera suspect, we'll have to
1) Go through the Let Meta Settle -> Ban threat process who knows how many times till meta is somewhat stabilized
2) Actually do the Tera suspect
3) Completely restart the meta because of how because of how massive a tera ban would be implemented
4) Repeat the Let Meta Settle -> Ban loop
If we wait now, I could easily see it taking another year for the metagame to reach a stable point should tera be banned, and that's not even considering how 2024's mainline pokemon project could affect things.
The tier shifts have left competitive scene in ruin, terrakion and registeel got banned but they didn’t come close to breaking gyarados’s record and golem is brawling paldean tauros for custody of zu ,
but the biggest injustice that the ou playerbase has forgotten their real king
#freezapdos (Zapdos) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Discharge
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn
Specially zapdos because electric flying is also an alright specially defensive typing and its special bulk is 90/90, it is a bit outclassed but the physical is a different story
but the biggest injustice that the ou playerbase has forgotten their real king
#freezapdos (Zapdos) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Discharge
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn
Specially zapdos because electric flying is also an alright specially defensive typing and its special bulk is 90/90, it is a bit outclassed but the physical is a different story
This reads to me was wanting tiering action for the sake of it, you've said nothing is really broken and nothing deserves a QB so what is the point of a suspect?
I was joking about how Rotom-Fridge resists Regieleki's "perfect coverage"Yeah, but
A: Much slower, only being a below average base 86 as opposed to "literal fastest in the game" Base 200. Outspeeding Eleki is practically impossible- Even
B: Notably weaker due to Eleki's Transistor ability, at least with its Electric-type STAB- Tera Blast Ice beating the things that would stop Eleki's souped up Electric-type moves is the entire problem, especially since outspeeding Eleki is, as we all know, practically impossible.
C: Actually an Ice-type, which as we all know is a defensive liability, especially with
D: Actually less bulky than Eleki, too- it may have slightly higher defense and special defense but this is offset by its cruddy Base 50 HP.
There is a reason why the fridge is widely considered to be the worst Rotom form not named Rotom-Fan (and let's be real here,
This is also exacerbated by the reduced presence of Ground-types in DLC2's meta,
In other words: Only if/when Tera goes can we talk about returning
While I do think how he potrayed it is dumb, letting things settle is still good. We are still two weeks in, that is not a lot of time. People have been flip-flopping on their opinions of mons, at some point iron boulder was considered broken and now I feel people have calmed down on it. The meta is alright position right now and such a big shakeup may not be for the best. I do want tera banned but now is not the time, give it a month or so, then we can talk. Another example is Deo-S, which was considered broken by many, me included, but now is seen as a great, but not overpowered mon. The metagame will always develop, but we need to be sure that something won't instantly break it a few weeks down the line. We have time, at least a year or two. Arceus' release didn't affect gen 8, so something new most likely won't affect this. The only thing is maybe the release of perchaunt, but that's one mon, so it won't be much of a shakeup.
TLDR, wait a month, meta is still fresh and things could get banned in that time. We also have year or two, so we can play the longer game.
I think banning Tera would make the meta kinda stale, but i'd also be for it if it meant a blanket unbanning of several things like ape and espartha and even *gasp* chien, for restesting purposes, even if it was just for a few days, meta will be around for years, whats a few days of chaos for the sake of seeing if things end up miserable or not? I think the unbanning of darkrai has provided some lessons a lot us didn't know we needed!
Unbanning Darkrai is a single mon that had the speculation and calcs to be turn out balanced (at least at time of writing), but banning Tera would be a seismic change that would upend the entire metagame. It'd be on the level of banning Permanent Weather from Gen 5 OU.
And frankly, that's a few days wasted. Tera in its current form looks sustainable. Sure we have to get rid of monsters like Regieleki, Espathra (and possibly RM, Volc and dare I say Kingambit) but it's made teambuilding far more interesting and far more fun to watch as a result.
NO NO NO NOT THAT THING AGAIN
IT HAD 2 CHANCES ALREADY AND OVERSTAYED ITS WELCOME FAR TOO LONG
genuinely, If tera does get banned, Only Unban the mons that haven't already had a second shot in OU. Bax, Urshifu, Heck palafin and annihilape now that we have Raging bolt
I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm all for Espathra and Annihilape never touching OU again rather than banning Tera.
I also believe that banning Hat Entei would be a mistake, and that I feel that many people see mons with 2+ viable sets as overpowered when I think that it's good to have a swiss army knife kind of mon as a defensive backbone. But that's just my two cents, I honestly haven't used it yet in battle.
Also I feel like its important that we shouldn't wait for the meta to destabilize before holding a tera suspect.
If I recall correctly, Chien-Pao was legal last tera suspect, and was so bad that some people were legitimately proposing that STAB tera being banned would solve the issues with tera. The meta was in such a warped state that it promoted an inaccurate perspective of internalization.
It just creates confirmation Bias that that since the meta is in a bad state -> thing being suspected must be bad. If the suspect doesn't next, it should wait until the meta reaches another stable point.
If I recall correctly, Chien-Pao was legal last tera suspect, and was so bad that some people were legitimately proposing that STAB tera being banned would solve the issues with tera. The meta was in such a warped state that it promoted an inaccurate perspective of internalization.
It just creates confirmation Bias that that since the meta is in a bad state -> thing being suspected must be bad. If the suspect doesn't next, it should wait until the meta reaches another stable point.
I’m actually very keen to see Urshifu-RS, potentially Urshifu-SS and Annilihape given a second chance in OU.
less pro-palafin and bax. They’re too much stats, that when combined with weather support, can do way too much.
annilihape would be very interesting to watch in the current meta where Tera receivers have become slightly less centralised, and there’s lots of new hard hitters to give it grief. More speedy/bulky hard hitters, including psychics and fairies, knock off is more prevalent to deal with chesto resto, and we have the stellar Tera type to punish tera-ape.
urshifu ss and rs might sound ridiculous on paper, but I’m very curious if they can add value to OU. I think there is a chance that they might not be OP!
point taken, but wouldn’t that title go to eleki, closely followed by magearna in the metas that they were released in?
even flutter mane didn’t feel as ridiculous as those two in the meta it was released in.
annilihape might be anti stall, but I am convinced stall will be able to find a way!! Let the meta figure it out, if it’s too OP, then just ban it again.
edit: here’s a suggestion for stall, Tera fairy bulky Gholdengo + rocky helmet dondozo to deal with most ape sets. Gholdengo switches in and tries to thunder wave, meaning more team members can out speed its taunt, dondozo with a helmet can chip away at it without using attacks.
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When Regieleki was in the Tier, I just ran Tera Electric Slowking, who made it useless. It also can't beat every ground, Iron Treads for example is neutral to Ice and has decent Special Bulk.
Magearna was clearly broken, but somehow less broken than last Gen despite Tera. Like, totally agree with the Ban, but it was no crazy broken like Annihilape or even Bloodmoon Bear.
Wait, you guys actually want Espathra and Annihilape back in OU? Y'all are smoking some dank tree; these mons are blatantly unhealthy even if they can't flip their typings on a whim and I really don't think they contribute anything positive to OU whatsoever.
Like, Speed Boost+STAB Stored Power on a mon with reliable recovery and CM is still objectively unhealthy and I don't think Annihilape offers anything really positive either. These mons really don't have a place in this tier.
Like, Speed Boost+STAB Stored Power on a mon with reliable recovery and CM is still objectively unhealthy and I don't think Annihilape offers anything really positive either. These mons really don't have a place in this tier.
It depends. If we get rid of Tera, we're back to square one in regards tot he meta in a lot of ways. Offense gets weaker, sure, but current defensive options do too- the joke that skeledirge is a fairy type is emblematic of this. The meta could be completely different to what it was before. In that respect, its a lot like the justification for Regieleki being allowed immediately post ban. Yeah, it'll probably be immediately banned, but since it hasn't been tried in this environment, and there's nothing like it currently in the tier, it's worth retesting.
It could just adapt with different Teras- well, one in particular: Tera Ground. Tera Ground beats everything in OU that stuffs the standard Tera Ice Eleki. Excadrill, Gouging Fire, Magnezone, Tera Electric Slowking, Iron Treads, Archaludon, all of them crumple if Eleki goes Tera Ground.
So in short Eleki can choose its counterplay.
I will give that a big nope. Well, annihilape is a maybe, but it destroys stall way too efficiently to even be considered, it would single handlely make stall unviable. Esparthra on the other hand is no way coming back to OU, it would require a dark type on every team and even then, it would have to be kingambit so you don't get destroyed by the following dazzling gleam. And you now can't even tera into a dark type to beat it, granted it can't tera to avoid a ko.
I understand why you say that if it is due just because we have to retest them, not because we want to, but that is still dumb and should be avoided.
Well the crux of my initial argument was moreso how little I wanted Chien-Pao back rather than a glowing endorsement from the rest.
But yes
I personally think they'll all get banned again, which Is why I'm not anti-tera, but the non delete buttons (Flutter, Bundle, Yu and Pao) should be given a second chance.
We aren’t freeing Espathra. We aren’t freeing Ape. Cry elsewhere. Next topic.