Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[Elec-ant1234]

Now, I have no idea whats going to end up happening (or if these are actually going to be done or if these tiershifts will occur as normal), but I had a funny thought. So, after every DLC, there have been quickdrops, and everyone knows how those works. But my point is, if something gets barely used, then it can drop multiple tiers.
So...
Who's ready for Lando-T in RU?
There's a very real posibility this happens, because think about it:

• Lando was barely hanging on last month
• DLC Dropped
• New Toy Syndrome and a plethora of threats (also Kyruem)

 

[pika pal]

Hey everybody, just poppin' in quick with a demonic Gholdengo set that 1LDK and I cooked up.

View attachment 585564

G H O L D E N G O I S D A T B O I


Gholdengo @ Salac Berry
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Endure
- Shadow Ball
- Tera Blast/Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
​

Gholdengo has pretty decent natural bulk, so this set (especially with Endure) allows Gholdengo to speed past some otherwise problematic threats such as Great Tusk by using a Salac Berry (+1 Speed Boost). If you predict carefully, you can have a +2 SpA +1 Speed Gholdengo in a single turn which can completely clean games. Endure for the Speed buff + to survive otherwise KOing hits, Shadow Ball for good STAB, Nasty Plot to boost, and for the Fighting move you have two options - Tera Blast Fighting is more accurate but less powerful and costs you a tera slot while Focus Blast frees up your tera slot to utilize more defensive typings for additional survivability and gives you more raw power with a SpDef drop chance, but you've got a very shaky 70% accuracy that could lose you games. I personally like Tera Blast while 1LDK likes Focus Blast, he's a better team builder than I am so Focus Blast is likely the most optimal choice for that slot, but I dig 100% accuracy's safety here which is why I run Tera Blast. Tera Fighting is already a good typing for Dhengo because of the Dark-type resistance, so I feel pretty happy with it.

Yes good, give him more sets so he can step on more teams. We need every show of this thing's stomping ahead of a Suspect Test.

Leave it to Morkal to cook something new even with Gholdengo and its 6 OU sets.

 

[YubelVT]

the handling may have been done incorrectly according to some (i think urshifu was handled correctly), but the result was absolutely correct both times. volc got multiple opportunities to be voted back down and was successful, and urshifu-rs got an opportunity during the pre-dlc2 survey. i wouldn't be averse to retesting urshifu-rs if the meta has no bans within the next several months, because i do think a lot of the new mons have neutral-to-positive matchups against it, but we still have yet to figure out if this is meta is stable or whether it's just metastable

I gotta disagree. Just because sun is powerful doesn't mean we should gigabuff rain with Urshifu-R to combat it, just deal with the problems in sun lmao.

 

[Anchor9]

I’ve been hearing too much good stuff about Sun. Haven’t played it in a while and gotta try it out. We’re far from our primitive Scovillian and H-Lilligant beginnings.

 

[YubelVT]

I’ve been hearing too much good stuff about Sun. Haven’t played it in a while and gotta try it out. We’re far from our primitive Scovillian and H-Lilligant beginnings.

Wouldn't the true beginnings just be torkoal + 5 pastdox mons

 

[Anchor9]

Wouldn't the true beginnings just be torkoal + 5 pastdox mons

If you wanted to Paradox-Spam, why yes. But I don’t think a Sun team can live off Paradox spam. I’ve found that Rillaboom is pretty good as Torkoal support, weakening Earthquake, covering against Water, and providing passive recovery.

 

[StompyStomps]

I took Incineroar to top 500. RMT: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...1741-and-still-climbing.3733372/#post-9912027

Congratulations for proving me wrong!

 

[RyukTheDarkrai]

DINOSAUR SUN
View attachment 585481



https://pokepast.es/5343fa4cc93fae90​

Choice Item Triple Dinosaur Sun is the most fun I've had in this silly game in a long time. I'm blindly clicking buttons and for some reason almost at 1900. There's very little thought required behind this team. Defensive backbone? Opposing Resists? What are those?

Just get a dino in where there are no immunities, click tera, and then fire away. It's really BS and your opponents have every right to be mad about it.

252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Tera Water Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 290-342 (44.4 - 52.4%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo in Sun: 252-297 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 393-463 (102.8 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Fire Move (Gouging Fire) @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Heat Crash
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Just absurd power. everyone panic switches because Dragon Dance sets are so scary. Then something just dies. Go faster than Monke


Water Move (Walking Wake) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Flip Turn
- Flamethrower

Nothing new. Click the water button.


Electric Move (Raging Bolt) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Volt Switch
- Weather Ball
- Thunderclap

Specs Draco is so juiced up. It's really crazy. There is room to explore the Tera Type, 4th move, and EVs. I think you need weather ball, since goofy guys will try try to use Iron Treads. Tera Grass Solar Beam destroys Ting-Lu. Magnet + Calm Mind is a great bluff and sweeper. Tera Fairy to 1v1 opposing dragons. This thing also unfairly fat.

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Tera Electric Raging Bolt: 351-414 (79.5 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO wtf

spicy set
Rapid Spin Hog (Great Tusk) @ Eject Pack
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Close Combat
- Temper Flare
- Headlong Rush

4 Atk Tera Fire Great Tusk Temper Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Sun: 350-414 (104.7 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO. One tweak you can consider is putting Sunny Day on Great Tusk. This is a great way to control the weather.

vs:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2023195689?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2023236917?p2​

In place of and , I've toyed with things. like +. +, , and even . The biggest challenge can be strong late game priority coming from a or the obvious fairy and ice weaknesses that emerge with this many dragon types. Maybe fat would be cool.

Has anyone else had success making a team around all three of these absolute behemoths in Sun? How do you support them?

man looking at this team really making my mouth water fr fr

Might I suggest Raging Fury over Flare Blitz on Goug? The lack of recoil I think would be greatly appreciated. I suppose wanting to switch out from opposing Walking Wake or Gouging Fire would be appreciated though.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Wouldn't the true beginnings just be torkoal + 5 pastdox mons

well, the dinosaur team is 5/6 of the way there and i've been running a modified version of it with, if you can believe it, scream tail over kingambit (it provides great speed control in thunder wave and is a consistent switch-in to strong fighting-types and dragon-types, which give a lot of problems to the original team) and it's been working wonders for me. so i guess we kind of are back to the beginning

 

[Heatranator]

Thoughts on volcanion on a rain team? I'm thinking of using it since it does well against opposing rain and helps against sun teams with boosted flamethrowers.

Mythical spoiler

Hold up, they have the data for pecharunt on showdown, that's so cool.

 

[Anchor9]

Stop Sun? Ha! ——

252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderclap vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 288-338 (95.3 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO


Stop Rain? Ha Ha Ha!!!———-

252 SpA Archaludon Electro Shot vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 302-356 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Disclaimer: the following information is being given by a low ladder idiot always floating around 1300.

Anyways. I don’t think it will help in Sun too much. Sure, you could wall a Hydro Steam from Wake and half-heartedly tank a Banded Flare Blitz from Gouging Fire, but when in doubt, we Sun users rain down Draco Meteor, and you ain’t surviving those. Outside of Gouging Fire and Torkoal, Sun has plenty of abusers that don’t need a Fire move.

About Rain I don’t have much experience playing with that outside of Monotype, but it seems there isn’t too much of an issue outside of Wake I guess. You’ll mess with Barraskewda a good bit since.

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 177-209 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Volcanion Earth Power vs. -1 4 HP / 0 SpD Barraskewda: 282-332 (106.8 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As someone said somewhere sometime long ago-“Experiment!”

 

[StompyStomps]

I am creating a balance team centered around Archaludon, with BU Ceruledge and Quaquaval as strong Physical attackes, with Tera Stellar Enamorus with a Special Attacking set. Any suggestions?
Here is the team so far:
London Bridge (Archaludon) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Stamina
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Dragon Pulse

Starkiller (Ceruledge) (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bitter Blade
- Poltergeist
- Bulk Up
- Taunt

Pave (Quaquaval) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Step
- Close Combat
- Triple Axel
- Bulk Up

Venus (Enamorus) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tera Blast
- Draining Kiss
- Earth Power
- Mystical Fire

 

[Gondre19Wedj]

I took Incineroar to top 500. RMT: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...1741-and-still-climbing.3733372/#post-9912027

Love to see it. Thank you for proving me wrong. Also, good write up for RMT.

 

[EpicGuy321]

Love to see it. Thank you for proving me wrong. Also, good write up for RMT.

Thanks. Took me like four hours haha

 

[YubelVT]

well, the dinosaur team is 5/6 of the way there and i've been running a modified version of it with, if you can believe it, scream tail over kingambit (it provides great speed control in thunder wave and is a consistent switch-in to strong fighting-types and dragon-types, which give a lot of problems to the original team) and it's been working wonders for me. so i guess we kind of are back to the beginning

I believe this 100% actually. I would believe you if you said you were running happiny in OU and seeing success with it just because of how unhinged your posts are

I’m pretty sure that it copies protodrive boosts. It’s really good against things that have coverage against themselves like dragapult and iron valiant.

I use ditto in ubers quite regularly and this came up in DLC1 semi-regularly due to how good Koraidon and Miriadon were (and continue to be), how Flutter Mane was top 20, and how Iron Treads was probably the best spinner available. This being said it doesn't pop anything up that says you have quark/proto active so I don't actually know if it copies those boosts. Like I just don't know and showdown doesn't pop anything up either.

 

[EpicGuy321]

Hi chat, what are your opinions on the kokoloko method that might be used? I am personally against it, as I think that it would destabilize the meta. I think that this meta is certainly strong, but balanced in that the big threats have checks both offensively and defensively (for example, and are checked/countered by ). If something's check gets banned, that mon automatically gets harder to control (ex. if and get banned).

 

[EpicGuy321]

it doesn't pop anything up that says you have quark/proto active so I don't actually know if it copies those boosts. Like I just don't know and showdown doesn't pop anything up either.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't copy Booster Energy, but it does activate with sun/eterrain

 

[Conflux123]

I am creating a balance team centered around Archaludon, with BU Ceruledge and Quaquaval as strong Physical attackes, with Tera Stellar Enamorus with a Special Attacking set. Any suggestions?
Here is the team so far:
London Bridge (Archaludon) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Stamina
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Dragon Pulse

Starkiller (Ceruledge) (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bitter Blade
- Poltergeist
- Bulk Up
- Taunt

Pave (Quaquaval) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Step
- Close Combat
- Triple Axel
- Bulk Up

Venus (Enamorus) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tera Blast
- Draining Kiss
- Earth Power
- Mystical Fire

You should only be using Tera stellar enam as a revenge killer rarely but mostly as a cleaner with Tera stellar. That role means you pretty much have to run scarf.

 

[EpicGuy321]

I am creating a balance team centered around Archaludon, with BU Ceruledge and Quaquaval as strong Physical attackes, with Tera Stellar Enamorus with a Special Attacking set. Any suggestions?
Here is the team so far:
London Bridge (Archaludon) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Stamina
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Dragon Pulse

Starkiller (Ceruledge) (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bitter Blade
- Poltergeist
- Bulk Up
- Taunt

Pave (Quaquaval) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Step
- Close Combat
- Triple Axel
- Bulk Up

Venus (Enamorus) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tera Blast
- Draining Kiss
- Earth Power
- Mystical Fire

https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/rate-my-team.52/

 

[Return to Zero]

Hi chat, what are your opinions on the kokoloko method that might be used? I am personally against it, as I think that it would destabilize the meta. I think that this meta is certainly strong, but balanced in that the big threats have checks both offensively and defensively (for example, and are checked/countered by ). If something's check gets banned, that mon automatically gets harder to control (ex. if and get banned).

Kokoloko tiering right now is a definite no from me, and I think right now most people (who are not, let's say, particularly enthusiastic fans of Raikou) would agree. No one can really agree on what they'd ban like that, and I personally think this meta's in a pretty stable place. Suspect Deo-S and Kyurem and I'm pretty much set.

 

[EpicGuy321]

Kokoloko tiering right now is a definite no from me, and I think right now most people (who are not, let's say, particularly enthusiastic fans of Raikou) would agree. No one can really agree on what they'd ban like that, and I personally think this meta's in a pretty stable place. Suspect Deo-S and Kyurem and I'm pretty much set.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with anything in the meta right now.

 

[Ayman]

All the talk about "kokoloko", literally quick banning 10-15 mons (half the tier) makes me think certain members of this community should just quit OU and play UU. Do people expect the power level of every tier to stay the same every generation?

 

[Return to Zero]

All the talk about "kokoloko", literally quick banning 10-15 mons (half the tier) makes me think certain members of this community should just quit OU and play UU. Do people expect the power level of every tier to stay the same every generation?

It is a fair concern, granted, to prevent really egregious powercreep. Kokoloko tiering was devised as a sort of last resort option for if normal one at a time suspect tests wouldn't be able to salvage a metagame, since the meta consisted of multiple broken mons that all checked each other while pushing out the rest of the tier. Broken checking broken is not balance, after all. But here, I just don't see it. There's a lot of stuff that people want to call broken but can't collectively agree on, and a lot of them do have checks other than themselves.

 

[Lethargic]

Hi chat, what are your opinions on the kokoloko method that might be used? I am personally against it, as I think that it would destabilize the meta. I think that this meta is certainly strong, but balanced in that the big threats have checks both offensively and defensively (for example, and are checked/countered by ). If something's check gets banned, that mon automatically gets harder to control (ex. if and get banned).

I'm just gonna say if someone feels serp should be banned I feel bad for them shit's mediocre as hell and not even that fast for this meta. No immediate power, frail/trash defensive monotyping, trash coverage unless/even if you burn tera which is huge opportunity cost, even leaf storm PP can be an issue. It's annoying with glare/sub etc sure but It's far from amazing let alone broken. Web boost is a gimmick against a gimmick and more neat/fun than relevant to its viability. I'm not saying it's B-C tier or anything just overrated.

I'm interested to see what the survey results for kokoloko are but I'd be shocked if many people are in favour of it, ironically general sentiment seems to be that this meta in the best SV OU has had so the kokoloko shit was kind of out of nowhere. The people who have lists of 10+ mons they think should be banned are delusional, people were listing shit like iron boulder, archaludon and serp as potential suspects.

 

[Elec-ant1234]

I personally would be more in favor of a reverse kokoloko method. Instead of banning like 10 things at once and dropping them one at a time, choose 10 mons and ban them one at a time to see what comes of it (like week 1 is kyruem, week 2 sees kyruem unbanned and serp banned, etc etc.). I know this will probably be shot down for going against tiering policy or something but I think it would be a great way to see the "cracks" so to speak in the meta. See what could be problems down the line, and see what issues arise from things not being in the meta. But again, I'm no tiering master so this'll probably be denied within seconds

just a fun thought experiment, since the meta is stable-ish atm and kokoloko doesn't pique anyones interest