Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[Gambit_Gamin]

Been playing this metagame for the last few hours, here's my take on some of the major threats.

Darkrai poses a decent threat to the metagame with Hypnosis being so threatening to the opponents team. The only pokemon that are currently immune to Hypnosis are Gholdengo, which gets destroyed by Dark Pulse, and Gliscor, which either gets 2KOed by Dark Pulse or OHKOed by Ice Beam, so its very hard to counter Darkrai without Tera. I do think that this mon will be banned in the future due to lack of counterplay, and I think it should be banned.

Honestly, Deoxys is just annoying. It spams hazards and Knock Off and uses Taunt to stop Gliscor. Even though its super fast, and can do decent damage with Psycho Boost, I don't think this mon should be banned. However, I could still see it getting banned.

Gliscor is very good right now and I'm glad its back. With the crazy amount of hyper offense in the tier right now, Gliscor helps slow down the offense. Also, theres actually a decent Spike setter in the tier so that's exciting. I don't think Gliscor should be banned at all but I could see it getting banned due to Toxic spam and the extreme longevity with Protect+Poison Heal.

Iron Boulder is the new Iron Val. Super crazy fast, and pretty strong. Has a lot of moves outside of STAB such as CC and EQ to hit Steel Types and if your afraid of Balloon Ghold, you could even use Throat Chop. I don't think this mon will be banned unless Gliscor gets banned. Then I could see this mon being a bit too much for the tier.

This is one of the biggest threats in the metagame right now. Can be either physical with Scale Shot+Icicle Spear+Loaded Dice or special with Specs or Scarf Ice Beam, Earth Power, and Draco Meteor. I think this mon should be banned cause its so threatening and has little counterplay. Also, it hard counters Gliscor unless Gliscor uses Tera. I think it will likely be banned too.

Not Snorlax but Terapagos. By far the biggest threat. 600 BST with sweeping options in Rock Polish+Calm Mind and also support options in Toxic and Rapid Spin. Also, after Tera, this mons BST increases to 700? That's more than Calyrex-Shadow, which is currently in AG. This mon should be banned right now and will most likely be the first ban.

 

[Gambit_Gamin]

What are thoughts on deo-s? I've only had a handful of games but I'm ready for it to go. It's doing the same things it's always done, taunting and dropping hazards, and hazard removal can't really do much against it. I haven't seen enough of teragos, whatever its called to say anything on it.

Darkrai is a great mon as expected, but too early to call busted. Latios has potential as there's a lack of fairies that can consistently switch in for its specs Draco. Serperior Is also looking pretty solid.

Very annoying. Can be an issue for lead Gliscor with Knock and Taunt. Darkrai does have a good matchup into it however.

 

[KamenOH]

Weird fucking question but would palafin be balanced with the dundaclap mon that is Raikousaurus?
I say this because it could potentially (read: probably isnt but lemme hope) be a check to Stellarpagos
EDIT: is stellarpagos SE v Stellarpagos? iPad time

 

[Cuddly]

What are thoughts on deo-s? I've only had a handful of games but I'm ready for it to go. It's doing the same things it's always done, taunting and dropping hazards, and hazard removal can't really do much against it. I haven't seen enough of teragos, whatever its called to say anything on it.

Darkrai is a great mon as expected, but too early to call busted. Latios has potential as there's a lack of fairies that can consistently switch in for its specs Draco. Serperior Is also looking pretty solid.

I don't know how ban worthy it currently is, but Hamurott is definitely a great lead against it, in theory at least.
So long as Ceaseless Edge doesn't fucking miss, you'll have the spikes advantage against them thanks to Aqua Jet.

 

[RyukTheDarkrai]

Iron Boulder is the new Iron Val. Super crazy fast, and pretty strong. Has a lot of moves outside of STAB such as CC and EQ to hit Steel Types and if your afraid of Balloon Ghold, you could even use Throat Chop. I don't think this mon will be banned unless Gliscor gets banned. Then I could see this mon being a bit too much for the tier.

I disagree with the idea that Iron Boulder is the new Iron Valiant, as I feel this disregards Iron Valiant's massive utility movepool and its versatility. Iron Boulder is even faster than Valiant, but can only attack from one side of the spectrum, lacks options like Encore, Destiny Bond and Hypnosis, not to mention its defensive utility is notably worse thanks to its Type combo and lower Defense (Iron Valiant resists U-Turn, Dark and Fighting Type moves, which are extremely valuable).

 

[YNM]

Just went from 1900s to the 1500s, nice.

Slapped a Terapagos on my team and now I'm back in the 1800s LMAOOO

 

[Return to Zero]

What are thoughts on deo-s? I've only had a handful of games but I'm ready for it to go. It's doing the same things it's always done, taunting and dropping hazards, and hazard removal can't really do much against it. I haven't seen enough of teragos, whatever its called to say anything on it.

Deo-S probably needs to go later. Every game above 1300 (I've run a huge spectrum tonight) is using it and it does its job annoyingly well on all of them. I think the only possible argument that can be made for it here is someone trying to say lead Iron Valiant/Boulder beats it, but if they have to do that, that says a lot.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Slapped a Terapagos on my team and now I'm back in the 1800s LMAOOO

ok it was definitely your own fault if you weren't using terapagos. that drop was a conscious choice, not bringing yertle the turtle is basically throwing

but seriously though, ladder's super rough at the moment, i hope you're not feeling bad about it. we all seem to basically be taking a full guided tour of the ladder right now, with paid-for hotel stays at the deo-s lead mirror inn

 

[Cuddly]

Deo-S probably needs to go later. Every game above 1300 (I've run a huge spectrum tonight) is using it and it does its job annoyingly well on all of them. I think the only possible argument that can be made for it here is someone trying to say lead Iron Valiant/Boulder beats it, but if they have to do that, that says a lot.

Hamurott does well as a lead against Deo-S. There isn’t much Deo-S can do against Lead Hamurott. Ceaseless Edge does a ton of damage and can be followed up by Aqua Jet. If you use Trick Choice Scarf you just make Hamurott faster and KOs you anyways.

 

[Return to Zero]

Hamurott does well as a lead against Deo-S. There isn’t much Deo-S can do against Lead Hamurott. Ceaseless Edge does a ton of damage and can be followed up by Aqua Jet. If you use Trick Choice Scarf you just make Hamurott faster and KOs you anyways.

Nah not always though, dual screens Deo-S is popping up a bit now and it doesn't care about Ceaseless Edge. It beats Stealth Rock/Taunt but it's not a panacea.

 

[Cuddly]

Nah not always though, dual screens Deo-S is popping up a bit now and it doesn't care about Ceaseless Edge. It beats Stealth Rock/Taunt but it's not a panacea.

How common of a lead is Screens Deo-S? Even so, you deal significant damage to Deo-S with Ceaseless Edge, even if Reflect is up, and then you likely get 2 layers of spikes up while also keeping your sash intact to stall out screen turns.

 

[Return to Zero]

How common of a lead is Screens Deo-S? Even so, you deal significant damage to Deo-S with Ceaseless Edge, even if Reflect is up, and then you likely get 2 layers of spikes up while also keeping your sash intact to stall out screen turns.

Common enough for me to run into it several times, at least. I wouldn't say it's a hard counter to H-Sam, but it's able to not care about it as much. Plus, stalling out six turns of screens with Samurott defenses and a Focus Sash isn't the most doable thing. What I've actually done is run a defensive Gouging Fire set behind screens, burn Samurott, and then just start stacking Dragon Dances since it stops being able to hurt you.

 

[Wooloomax]

Terapagos looks like box legendary caliber Pokemon to me. it's very tera-reliant but it has 700 base stats when tera, it's so fat it can set up multiple boosts on anything, specially prior to tera with Tera Shell and leftovers. At +1 it outspeeds everything that isn't scarfed or is D-speed, it's very hard to break because normal type is a good defensive type that's easy to pair w/fight resists, offensively it can hardly be stopped because Stellar tera hits everything for neutral damage with it's base 120 power signature move, at +1 or +2 it starts getting OHKOs one after the next even on fat and AV mons. You can prevent it from setting with taunt, encore or trick but even all those countermeasures are temporary and it still hits hard unboosted, And because of Stellar Tera hitting neutral it doesn't suffer of 4 move slots syndrome for coverage.

 

[Ctann]

Some good news for the Apple dragon lovers. Assault vest with dragon tail is by far up there as a reliable general check to terapagos. It doesn’t even need the assault vest.. so HDB can work too.

it’s also a good defensive Tera receiver for switching into the special attackers. With a defensive Tera you don’t need to worry about the stray ice/fairy/dragon attacks that are so common right now.

Unlike slowking, who also has renegerator and dragon tail, you get to enjoy the novelty of a new pokemon!

reasons why terapagos might not be too ridiculous (yet to be determined of course):

• Lack of reliable recovery means it usually only gets its first time in as an opportunity to set up
• Using stellar Tera is a high commitment play, and it doesn’t lose your weakness to fighting
• Requires 2 boosts, the rock polish and the calm mind, in order to truly do damage.
• It currently looks overwhelming due to the HO meta making it look better than it is
• Common anti-setup meta skeledirge is immune to its main move before Tera

 

[Vall]

Some good news for the Apple dragon lovers. Assault vest with dragon tail is by far up there as a reliable general check to terapagos. It doesn’t even need the assault vest.. so HDB can work too.

it’s also a good defensive Tera receiver for switching into the special attackers. With a defensive Tera you don’t need to worry about the stray ice/fairy/dragon attacks that are so common right now.

Unlike slowking, who also has renegerator and dragon tail, you get to use the novelty of a new pokemon!

That and unlike slowking 30% of the time you nuke the opponent you're trying to wall bc you feel like it.

I'll try AV but Yawn has been pretty useful at forcing switches to giving it up would be pretty big.

 

[taziathegreat]

Playing in total chaos isn’t good after taking like 2 month break(haven’t played consistently since hearth got banned)

but I’ve learned a couple things

Honestly. Terapagos doesn’t really need to run alot HP Ev’s I’ve been running max Hp max speed rapid spin and honestly Tera shell has been providing most of the needed bulk, especially considering how many KO’s I’ve missed out

Raging bolt and gourging flame are really good, probably both top 5 Pokémon rn. not much stops either from doing what they want.

iron Valiant bully’s darkai

tera stellar is a gimmick like 80% of the time

we could of been more liberal with the unbans both urshifu’s and palafin would of been fine.

dexoys provides an interesting wrinkle to the hazard game idk how I feel about it rn.

 

[ausma]

Quick preliminary thoughts after ing. having played for a bit based on what I've seen/used.

Unsure how popular of an opinion this is, but Deoxys-Speed is a metagame warping lead that I feel we would be better without. Its raw utility, Speed tier, and ability to fold in even more goofy forms of counter-leading like with Trick, dual Screens, or Skill Swap radiates Gen 4 Ubers energy in level of centralization. While I wouldn't necessarily call it directly broken, its lead set sets the tempo for every game and it often comes down to who has the correct set for whoever gets the momentum. In other words its style of enabling is very much so matchup oriented which I don't particularly think is a healthy thing to have around. We already have hazards up the ass anyway.

When making an argument to try it out in the council chat, I hadn't had a clue that Tera Starstorm and Terapagos's blatant ignoration of the one-time Stellar STAB boost would be factors. The latter is seldom a factor ever though because Tera Starstorm in its Stellar form has quite literally absolutely no counterplay. Calm Mind + Rock Polish/Spin + Starstorm and then your choice of Rest, coverage, or utility blatantly runs the tier, especially when before it Terastallizes it has the ability to use Tera Shell as a tool to boost up more consistently. The base form is otherwise an interesting and far from broken addition to the tier so I personally am a bit bummed out about this one.

Terapagos @ Lum Berry / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tera Shift
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rock Polish / Rapid Spin
- Calm Mind
- Tera Starstorm
- Rest / Earth Power

Raging Bolt is excellent. While I'm not subscribed to the notion that it's broken quite yet I feel like its raw bulk, awkward typing to maneuver around, and access to a good STAB combination with Thunderclap to round it off makes it an excellent tank and wallbreaker that can fit really snuggly onto offense and more dedicated Sun archetypes.

Iron Boulder is a pretty interesting but nice addition to the tier, having a Booster Energy-augmented Speed tier eclipsing both Roaring Moon and Iron Valiant. In tandem with Swords Dance, great coverage, and access to a weirdly effective STAB combination in this metagame I personally rate it quite high atp. In terms of Tera I'm pretty big on Ground- getting a boost on Earthquake is great into bulkier NP Gholdengos and Kingambit we know and love, and Ground grants you an immunity into Thunderclap. Close Combat is a bit overrated, you defo want both of your STABs since smiting Great Tusk and Iron Valiant are such a big appeal from the perspective a fast SD Pokemon.

I'm not sure if it's the nature of the tier speaking but I've found myself somewhat underwhelmed by it. Hypnosis cheese is annoying as hell but it feels really reliant on Nasty Plot to truly become a threat, which is pretty hard to set up in such a turbulent metagame. I've been using NP + 3 Attacks but I think in a more stable metagame, Knock Off > Nasty Plot could be a pretty neat choice on Spikes structures, especially with such a premium Speed tier. It's also one of the few Pokemon that I find to actually be a solid user of the Stellar Tera type since it's quite reliant on its coverage to cleave through most teams, and it values holding onto its Sucker Punch and Ghost-type resistances.

When it gets going, it gets going. Dual Dance is definitely its best option, however the STAB combination is not sufficient into Kingambit structures, so I do believe Tera Blast will be somewhat necessary to get the most from it.

Iron Crown @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Water / Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 8 SpA / 248 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Tachyon Cutter / Tera Blast
- Agility
- Stored Power

I believe there's potential for Gouging Fire to be insane but I haven't seen it enough nor tried it yet, so I will refrain from speaking about it.

Same with Hydrapple, but I don't think its ceiling is that high compared to Gouging Fire.

 

[KamenOH]

Playing in total chaos isn’t good after taking like 2 month break(haven’t played consistently since hearth got banned)

but I’ve learned a couple things

Honestly. Terapagos doesn’t really need to run alot HP Ev’s I’ve been running max Hp max speed rapid spin and honestly Tera shell has been providing most of the needed bulk, especially considering how many KO’s I’ve missed out

Raging bolt and gourging flame are really good, probably both top 5 Pokémon rn. not much stops either from doing what they want.

iron Valiant bully’s darkai

tera stellar is a gimmick like 80% of the time

we could of been more liberal with the unbans both urshifu’s and palafin would of been fine.

dexoys provides an interesting wrinkle to the hazard game idk how I feel about it rn.

Fuck Urshifu One and Two, could Styracosaurus Entei be a counter to Dialga Origin? Also, unseen fist would fuck up that overgrown gem tortoise I feel

 

[Return to Zero]

This is an extremely intimidating time to be playing OU.

 

[Heatranator]

Imma just say, when we ban Deoxys Speed, can we also ban Deoxys Defense? It will do similar things, with less speed but more defenses?

Also, when I see a deoxys, I always lead my scarf darkrai and I have got flinches in 50% of my games on that first turn lol.

 

[Vall]

To be honest i find Deoxsys D far more painful then D-S

At least with the speed variant it gets KO'd incredibly easily.

 

[Heatranator]

To be honest i find Deoxsys D far more painful then D-S

At least with the speed variant it gets KO'd incredibly easily.

If you have a fast taunter, than at the very least it can not get hazards up, otherwise yeah then it is more annoying.
With Dos, nothing except luck can stop it getting a hazard up. Only booster iron valiant and choice scarfers can outspeed it, with only valiant having taunt. And they can easily switch out to set hazards later, while you wasted your booster for nothing.

 

[Overshoc]

Mad Late but thanks to Joseph Joestar in the Ou discord for putting me onto Resto Chesto Terapagos:
Terapagos @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Tera Shift
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Rest
- Tera Starstorm

This set is filthy, not only do u have a reliable 1 turn healing move, which Terapagos desperately wants but you also completely shit on passive walls such as Clodsire who try to wear you down with toxic. Additionally, by combining with stored power, you blow past any stall attempts to slow you down. This set has quickly rushed me to the 1600s tier, so use it before it's banned ;). Btw 192 speed is for the defensive bulk-up tusk set variant with the 52-speed EVs. Can be optimized if this set isn't running anymore. Additionally this set has helped me in a pinch against gambits trying to pick me off

 

[Overshoc]

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 88 Atk / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Naive Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Shadow Ball

Deoxys-S is a filthy offensive man, shit is so fast u don't even need max speed. 168-speed EVs allow you to outpace +1 booster moth, 88 attack EVs wreck max hp gambit with superpower. I have not struggled to get this thing to set up and when it does, my god does it do so much damage, I mean look at some of these kills at +2. Sball is just for nailing goldengo.

 

[Heatranator]

Ok, hold up, I may have found the mon that can stop Terapagos.
Hatterene @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Nuzzle
- Draining Kiss
- Psychic Noise
- Calm Mind
I shat on a terapagos which was behind aurora veil, it may be one match, but I got a calm mind in first, then I beat them. Leftovers probably is better, but still. Terapagos balanced???? Nah, just kidding, this set is probably trash still.