There will be a Tera retest after the meta has settled after some bans, but as someone who voted to ban Tera the first time, I still don't think we have the support to get it banned and that the playerbase will vote for Tera Preview, which actually solves nothing since it gives your opponent more knowledge about how you intend to stop him/her.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
Other checks are special lando (it is not an unset, very useful vs great tusk, some ground type), slowking, enornamus, toxa. If you play rest, you will not ne able to break threw all your checks, stone edge is cool but then, slowking or gholden boy stop you. As I say, I would like to wait and see the meta settles before saying that he should get ban.
You forgot the Air Balloon dude
They teased the new unbans like they was featuring on a rap album on instagram/twitter lmao, after 48h comes out they are more broken than ever. I have NEVER seen so much unbans. I don't remember darkrai tested in ou after the dark void nerf or mewtwo getting unbanned just because they was pokemons from past gens, just for making examples or the old meme of arceus bug that was supposed to bentested in ou few gens ago.
There was no time for suspecting tera, no time for suspecting garg, unban ubers for me is the last thing to do in this gen, specially if new mons comes out. They (the council) get this decisions, gamefreak or us (community) has nothing to do with it.
The quickban of regi is because of the most problematic mechanic ever (tera) and almost no one was able to predict that an electric (mostly walled by any ground pokemon in the game) was going to be the best cleaner/setter + hazard control in the tier. Since there is sort of unpredictable factor anything that is uber should remain uber, new threats does not make older threats balanced.
Chien pao is the same, the reason to unban a pokemon banned few months ago was? After magearne gets banned chien will lose a check/counter, same for zama and he will be broken again lmao, it's a loop of wasted time.
You’re so right, thank you
IDK bros, I'm not seeing it with Zamazenta-C. Feels very mid like last generation. So far, the core of Rocky Helmet Slowking-G / Landor-T has stopped it from giving me too many issues. The only set I think could be broken is Howl since its also booting Crunch / BB, letting it beat Slowking-G / Gholdengo, but that set seems scrapped for slots.
I think there is more of a case w/ the Hero version being OP since it has leftovers, making Sub sets more difficult to stop & mitigating Rocky Helmet / hazard damage.
I think there is more of a case w/ the Hero version being OP since it has leftovers, making Sub sets more difficult to stop & mitigating Rocky Helmet / hazard damage.
Is Dynamax a joke to you?
I'm having a hard time taking this as a question asked in good faith. You are asking why a Pokemon was banned over the core mechanic unique to the generation? The former is easy to do with a quickban, and the latter requires a suspect along with policy review discussions and has broad implications for the metagame at large. Even if action on Tera is taken eventually, a QB on Eleki was the only rational tiering action.
Having threats that are made broken by Tera isn't going to be a good enough argument to ban Tera. It's going to be necessary to actually demonstrate that the metagame can't be balanced without banning it.
Tera is of course nothing compared to Dynamax. Even discounting Dmax, it is still dubious that this is the "most problematic mechanic ever". That being said, Regieleki was widely anticipated in advance of Home release to be a huge issue. It was a deeply flawed Pokemon last generation held back ONLY by its inability to do anything to Ground types. The userbase and council were both highly aware of the potential issues Eleki would bring before Home dropped.
Last edited:
L + Ratio + Garg was never broken + Tera was suspected
I feel like that knowledge is helpful both ways as you know what cards your opponent has in the tera and your opponent knows what cards you have in the tera field.
However until it happens and we actually play like that it’s speculation on how revealing Tera’s would change things
Of course Garg was never broken. Have you SEEN that defensive profile? Breaking Garganacl is the problem!
It was certainly asked in good faith. My experience playing Gen9 has been that Tera toxic from the beginning. Leki is just the first of many bans in the pipeline. Tera in my opinion warps the matches too much. It is a big f you to counterplay.
Leki in particular is basically trash otherwise.
TCTphantom
formerly MX42
This is a sign that Sneasler is on the radar since Sneasler has teeth. So does Ursaluna. The plot thinkens. /s
I would say that my argument of tera being broken is the fact that it enables too many pokemon to cheese past things they shouldn't be able to, as well as inflating the powerlevel a bit too much to be fair, and I don't think team preview solves that at all.
And that's a completely fair argument in saying it's broken. While I may disagree ultimately with you on the optimal course of action, that is a much more compelling reason to ban it than simply saying a Pokemon was trash without Tera and is broken with it.
Okay I usually don't get too emotional but we need to stop these conversations about users will be like "oh well I've dealt with this mon just fine, it's actually your problem because you're a novice and you don't know how to gameplan / team build."
Like with the Magearna arguments: to all your apologists, it will get banned like it or not it's just a matter of time there's no argument you can spin out (I mean of course you can make anything sound good but in reality the point is weak). It's just broken (not just talking about everyone's favorite Calm Mind Stored Power set), it's very bulky and when you combine it with screens and an unknown tera switch it's really hard to beat regardless of Heatran being in the tier, just tera ground tera blast lol. Light Clay has never been the problem it's been existing for multiple generations there's no reason to ban it when it didn't gain anything to make it more broken in gen 9. What has been broken is Magearna it didn't lose anything from generation 8 to generation 9. It actually gained spikes and it has the ability to tera, how does that not scream that it's the actual problem but a item is?
AYYOOOOOO, okay so Zam or Zam C ain't broken aight we're talking like this is Slaking or something just having high BST doesn't mean it's broken right? Like for example Slaking has a shit ability which makes it a terrible mon, Kyurem-Black has a terrible movepool in generation 5, it was not until it starting gaining a better move pool it became uber later on. Zama has an incredible statistical distribution, solid attack, and a insane speed tier to be quite honest combined with the first time +1.5 defense boost when you combine it with the very easily spammable ID + BP set it can spin really out of control. These 2 Behemoths (no pun intended) are really fast for some bulky pseudo walls. Like it outspeeds everything and the whole reason to use it on a team is to have a fat wall and something that checks most physical sweepers in the tier like Chien Pao. Zama-C has with no EV investment neutral nature on both defenses 316 without any sort of defensive boosts compare it to the king of stall (Pex) it has 340 320, in reality Zama-C is a better wall because of the HP differences, additional boost from Dauntless Shield and the ability to tera into anything it wants to just like pex. This thing has comparable defenses next to Pex, while going around 390 Speed positive nature full EV investment. It literally is a wall that outspeeds everything and could put on on damage with 130 base attack. Zama-C IMO is for sure broken, I'm still 50/50 on Zama but to say both these mons aren't S tier in this meta is completely wild.
DIRE CLAW - Don't get me started HAAAAAAHAAAAAA, I don't care if Sneas gets banned this historically might be the stupidest move in the history of competitive mons.
Like with the Magearna arguments: to all your apologists, it will get banned like it or not it's just a matter of time there's no argument you can spin out (I mean of course you can make anything sound good but in reality the point is weak). It's just broken (not just talking about everyone's favorite Calm Mind Stored Power set), it's very bulky and when you combine it with screens and an unknown tera switch it's really hard to beat regardless of Heatran being in the tier, just tera ground tera blast lol. Light Clay has never been the problem it's been existing for multiple generations there's no reason to ban it when it didn't gain anything to make it more broken in gen 9. What has been broken is Magearna it didn't lose anything from generation 8 to generation 9. It actually gained spikes and it has the ability to tera, how does that not scream that it's the actual problem but a item is?
AYYOOOOOO, okay so Zam or Zam C ain't broken aight we're talking like this is Slaking or something just having high BST doesn't mean it's broken right? Like for example Slaking has a shit ability which makes it a terrible mon, Kyurem-Black has a terrible movepool in generation 5, it was not until it starting gaining a better move pool it became uber later on. Zama has an incredible statistical distribution, solid attack, and a insane speed tier to be quite honest combined with the first time +1.5 defense boost when you combine it with the very easily spammable ID + BP set it can spin really out of control. These 2 Behemoths (no pun intended) are really fast for some bulky pseudo walls. Like it outspeeds everything and the whole reason to use it on a team is to have a fat wall and something that checks most physical sweepers in the tier like Chien Pao. Zama-C has with no EV investment neutral nature on both defenses 316 without any sort of defensive boosts compare it to the king of stall (Pex) it has 340 320, in reality Zama-C is a better wall because of the HP differences, additional boost from Dauntless Shield and the ability to tera into anything it wants to just like pex. This thing has comparable defenses next to Pex, while going around 390 Speed positive nature full EV investment. It literally is a wall that outspeeds everything and could put on on damage with 130 base attack. Zama-C IMO is for sure broken, I'm still 50/50 on Zama but to say both these mons aren't S tier in this meta is completely wild.
DIRE CLAW - Don't get me started HAAAAAAHAAAAAA, I don't care if Sneas gets banned this historically might be the stupidest move in the history of competitive mons.
Last edited:
There was some early chatter about Megas in Gen 6 and Z moves in Gen 7, but I wouldn't say these picked up a ton of steam since they were much more limited in application than Tera. Also for what it's worth (not sure if you were active then) I would say the Dmax ban didn't come without a ton of discussion, even with near universal support for a ban. Not that it wasn't a high priority, it just wasn't taken lightly due to the widespread implications.
I think having that information with Tera Preview will make the meta even more unbalanced as it will further weaken defensive use of Tera from slower Pokemon and give offense even more of an advantage over other playstyles than it already has this gen.
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Great Tusk | 53.357% |
| 2 | Kingambit | 36.159% |
| 3 | Gholdengo | 29.773% |
| 4 | Iron Valiant | 28.132% |
| 5 | Dragapult | 22.187% |
| 6 | Dragonite | 21.525% |
| 7 | Baxcalibur | 18.991% |
| 8 | Corviknight | 17.200% |
| 9 | Meowscarada | 15.657% |
| 10 | Hatterene | 15.468% |
Not that it matters, but this is how the top 10 mons in usage ended last month prior to the HOME drop, it's good to know Baxi came up so big from the beginning of SV to now, I'm proud of my son ;'). This top 10 is going to look much different next month.
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Great Tusk | 53.357% |
| 2 | Kingambit | 36.159% |
| 3 | Gholdengo | 29.773% |
| 4 | Iron Valiant | 28.132% |
| 5 | Dragapult | 22.187% |
| 6 | Dragonite | 21.525% |
| 7 | Baxcalibur | 18.991% |
| 8 | Corviknight | 17.200% |
| 9 | Meowscarada | 15.657% |
| 10 | Hatterene | 15.468% |
Not that it matters, but this is how the top 10 mons in usage ended last month prior to the HOME drop, it's good to know Baxi came up so big from the beginning of SV to now, I'm proud of my son ;'). This top 10 is going to look much different next month.
Mega Evolution was never on the table for a ban, the mega stones were basically their own pokemon. While Mega Mawile was Uber in gen 6, Mawile itself stayed in PU. Universal mechanics can be used by any pokemon rather than being pokemon specific, such as Z Moves and gen 5's gems (the latter being banned surprisingly recently).
thanks for the response! Yeah I only started playing in August of last year so the meta Was very settled by then.Tera discussion seems very split.
Bax fall for the next update is going to hurt. I predict that Pao won't be banned until other 3-4 op mons get ban, just like happened pre-home.
- Status