Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

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:Lilligant-Hisui: @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
Tera Type: Grass / Fighting / Fire / Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner
- Sleep Powder / Defog / Tera Blast

Definitely my favorite to use out of the new Hisuian mons. While Victory Dance might be the more traditionally appealing option, CB Lilligant is an absolute nuke which has just about zero switchin-ins in the current tier bar max Phys Def Moltres (who gets trounced by a potential Tera Water). Even has actual defensive utility due to it's excellent resistances to Water, Ground, Dark and Electric, allowing it to switch in at least twice on a Hisuian Samurott or Ting Lu. Only issue is that the base 105 Speed can be a big let down in this fast paced meta and you struggle with Chien Pao, but even against offensive teams you can find utility in the fact that can potentially 1-shot even bulky Magearna with Close Combat
 

Crowlignt

The pride cometh right before the fall
is a Tiering Contributor
Can agree it's viable, but for me personally it's less viable than Watershifu (who breaks much more immediately) and Water Tauros (who completely invalidates most Chien Pao sets). Biggest crime however is Quaquaval being ugly.
Urshifu has a completely different role imo but is certainly more viable than Quaquaval as a check to Pao in more offensive teams.
Concerning Water Tauros, I find that access to u-turn and rapid spin gives quaquaval greater utility in a team. And of course access to a reliable recovery move gives him greater longevity. I personally find quaquaval better in the vast majority of cases than Tauros.
 
Urshifu has a completely different role imo but is certainly more viable than Quaquaval as a check to Pao in more offensive teams.
Concerning Water Tauros, I find that access to u-turn and rapid spin gives quaquaval greater utility in a team. And of course access to a reliable recovery move gives him greater longevity. I personally find quaquaval better in the vast majority of cases than Tauros.
dont put water tauros out of the game just yet, it actually has something the others dont!
raging bull lets it break through the ever used screens that are dominating the meta as of right now, and its not stopped by a ghost type! this is already a lot bigger than you'd think, cause it just lets you come in when others couldnt, and still get some utility! add intimidate onto that and its still got a niche over quaq in my opinion, though the loss of a hazard remover can kinda hurt
 
Why are people talking about "Zapdos this" and "Volcarona that" when Dondozo completely counters every Zama set on the planet?
Zama can't do a single thing to the fat fish, and fatty's been OU viable since the beginning of the Gen. Were people that scared of Eleki that everyone dropped the Pokemon or something?
You can't even run some fringe troll stuff like Metal Burst since a minimum speed Zama still outspeed a max speed Dozo. Even some max troll Tera grass/electric Zama still gets stalled out by the Dozo.
 
Okay everyone and their mother knows zamazenta crowned is broken, but I actually think people are really overselling right hero despite its speed tier. Iron Defense sets really aren't all that great on Hero compared to crowned as they are far easier to shut down honestly as it feels like it can still be killed despite its speed tier, despite hero getting item access over crowned. That extra steel typing and extra bulk, as well as 4mss being less of an issue for crowned, make all the difference over hero from what I have seen.

Also remember that futureport strats (Or in this gen futureception strats), can really harass hero quite a bit, as it is not gonna want to ever come in with glowking spamming future sight + chilly reception, where crowned has no problem coming in on a future sight.

Also bozo stops hero even harder than crowned since it just doesn't hit as hard with press and has lower base defense, making hero a lot easier for bozo to deal with, and has even less issue sitting on hero.

My point being I hope the council gets rid of crowned but not hero as I really think hero is being overhyped, id+body press sets are really good but not overpowered like they are on crowned. (Honestly finding choice band zama-h more effective strangely enough) I hope hero doesn't get quickbanned, but I hope crowned goes honestly as crowned feels very quickban worthy, where hero really isn't that broken right now and is being overhyped, and possibly only suspect worthy down the line.
 
Why are people talking about "Zapdos this" and "Volcarona that" when Dondozo completely counters every Zama set on the planet?
Zama can't do a single thing to the fat fish, and fatty's been OU viable since the beginning of the Gen. Were people that scared of Eleki that everyone dropped the Pokemon or something?
You can't even run some fringe troll stuff like Metal Burst since a minimum speed Zama still outspeed a max speed Dozo. Even some max troll Tera grass/electric Zama still gets stalled out by the Dozo.
Problem is you can’t run Dondozo on every team.
 
Problem is you can’t run Dondozo on every team.
Yeah I know that,

I'm just trying to point out that in my post hero's id+body press sets are far more breakable than crowned, and that glowking can keep it off the field pretty easily with futureport strats, unlike crowned who doesn't fear future sight at all interestingly.
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
also whats an unset
Something that is counter intuitive with the overall plan
an example would be Calm Mind Contrary Enamorus, since your contrary, calm mind will reduce your stats

In this case, you have prankster, you don't need fake out priority, its a weak move that doesn't do anything, replace it with either an attacking move or taunt too
 
Current set on site (the one you are using for calcs is Timid Volc). The one that should be used now is Bold Volc with 261 Speed (to outspeed Jolly Zamazenta Crowned at +1). Calc would look like this (vs not Jolly).

It looks solid enough as a check for me, with enough turns to use Roost for a Flame Body burn and even a chance to avoid 2HKO and beat Zama.
That is against a completely uninvested Zamazenta-C, though.

Against Max Def Zamazenta-C, we get this, even against 252/252 Bold Volc at +3:

+3 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 178-210 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO

Yes, it can survive, but the odds are not in its favour.

If we use your 248/160 Bold Volc against a 252 Def Neutral Nature Zamazenta-C, we get this:

+3 252 Def Zamazenta-Crowned Body Press vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Volcarona: 180-212 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

Again, it can survive but the odds are very much not in its favour. Given it gets 2HKO'd 90% of the time, it's far from a proper counter, especially since Impish guarantees the 2HKO:

+3 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned Body Press vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Volcarona: 198-233 (53 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's essentially banking on the Flame Body proc before Volcarona's 8 Morning Sun PP runs out, while also hoping Zamazenta doesn't switch out to a partner Walking Wake or Heatran, who utterly demolish Bulky Volcarona.

And honestly? Stone Edge isn't that bad an option on Zamazenta-C, either, considering the Ghosts don't actually take it that much better than Crunch. Dragapult, Basculegion and Hoopa-Confined don't take Stone Edge particularly well either, losing 33-37% from a Stone Edge to the face, while Skeledirge takes significant damage from Stone Edge (41-53%) and Ceruledge gets utterly eviscerated (57-67%). Slam dunking Volcarona, Zapdos, Thundurus, Moltres, Iron Moth and Braviary-Hisui is also a neat boon for Stone Edge, especially since Braviary-Hisui similarly gives IronPress Zamazenta-C no end of headaches if it lacks Stone Edge. It only really gets laughed at by Gholdengo if it runs Stone Edge, but Gholdengo is often used to check many other threats and can be easily overwhelmed. by Zam-C's teammates.

Unaware Dondozo is basically the only reliable answer, Zam-C can beat everything else with the right coverage.

Also, Magearna being on the radar for a QB?

I'm shocked! Shocked, I say!

...Okay, maybe not that shocked.
 
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Been messing around on the ladder for a hot minute today and I've got some early spicy takes. I'll start with sets I've been using the most frequently.

Enamorus


Enamorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Superpower
- Earth Power
- Moonblast
- Mystical Fire

My favorite set to use in OU right now, no question about it. Enamorus is really anti-meta right now and Superpower with Contrary just preys on half of the threats running around. Corviknight is setup fodder, the Defense buffs really take things to another level. STAB Moonblast + STAB Tera Ground Earth Power + Mystical Fire with Superpower is damn near perfectly tailored for this meta. Also, Kingambit has become approximately 0% worrying for me since I started using this set.

Kleavor + Samurott (I run them together)



Samurott-Hisui @ Leftovers
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Protect
- Sacred Sword
- Razor Shell

Kleavor @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Axe
- U-turn
- Night Slash
- Close Combat

I run these two together and they contribute so much natural offensive pressure that it can just cause the opponent to melt under repeated blows + hazard damage. Samurott-H's Ceaseless Edge is one of the most spammable moves in the game and Sharpness makes up for its general lack of power. Leftovers + Protect with three moves is what I prefer atm. Kleavor's Stone Axe rips, and makes Rocks setting feel more viable now. Both complement each other very well. Tera Fire is for niche situations where you need to resist key hits and Assault Vest also helps with this.

Sneasler



Sneasler @ Red Card
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dire Claw
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics

Red Card with Unburden puts your opponent in a very precarious position and can, in certain situations, make getting a Swords Dance up way easier. Dire Claw is broken, Close Combat with Acrobatics is stupid too. This mon is stupid, I love it. Probably the most powerful thing in OU atm IMO.

Zamazenta-Crowned



Zamazenta-Crowned @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Howl
- Behemoth Bash
- Body Press
- Trailblaze

Zama-Hero is kinda eh right now comparatively, but Crowned is just kinda dumb in some cases. Howl + Trailblaze with STAB Behemoth Bash and STAB Body Press is easy to get off if you've taken care of stuff like Volcarona. Another really fun mon but I don't see it staying (I see Zama-Hero staying though)


Lilligant-Hisui is pretty fun, Victory Dance + Sleep Powder is nasty, but having only two attack slots with that kind of setup really stings. In all honesty I've been running Leaf Blade with Ice Spinner to get the drop on certain threats rather than just running its two STABS. Feels like a strong UU or UUBL Pokemon with a solid place in OU.


Shockingly (hah) overhyped, Regieleki is very easy to handle. I'm not seeing any of the hullabaloos about this thing, even with Tera. Enamorus is a great lure with the Tera-Ground set I mentioned above. My opinion might change once we figure out fully what's broken and what isn't, but as of right now I'm not feeling the hype vibe.


I feel like the physical sets on Hoopa-U are going to be the most deadly in this meta - STAB Hyperspace Fury is kind of insane.


A bit underwhelming, but bulky sets are quite good on Tornadus-T. I've found that it's especially vicious on rain teams with Assault Vest. Don't run offensively inclined Torn-T unless you want to be disappointed IMO.


Ursuluna hits like a truck and has plenty of options - one thing I've been saying all gen is that this is the first time since Gen 3 that I truly feel like Normal typing is insane defensively. Being immune to the negative effects of Burn is great too, not to mention movepool. Do I think it's banworthy? No, not even close, but it's still a great mon.


I'm split on this one - on one hand, Urshifu-RS has a lot of really annoying qualities but I haven't really had issues handling it. Most of the time you know exactly what it's going to do, so it feels a bit one-dimensional, despite being a very strong dimension.


I hate it with every fiber of my being.



Chien-Pao is another Pokemon that feels really underwhelming. Zama-C and Zama-H along with a few other new threats just sit on this thing day and night. I think it's fine in OU, as the pressure it exerts feels very lackluster at the moment.


Pretty underwhelming as well, although it definitely has some pretty significant uses; I'm looking forward to seeing how it evolves as the tier settles. Tera Grass Heatran is pretty fire though.


"Arcanine-Hisui used Head Smash
Arcanine-Hisui missed!"


Incredibly underrated - I cannot even begin to explain how much this thing can snowball with Chilling Neigh. Really great Pokemon that handles quite a few potent OU threats nicely. Tera also helps with its defensive-typing woes as well. I really hope people start seeing the potential in Glastrier and how it's far better in SV OU than SS OU IMO.


I really want to like Hisui-Goodra more, but the physical fighting-type weakness really bugs me. Definitely a good defensive mon but you have to support it. It feels like a jack of all dragons - but Steel / Dragon as a typing with those stats does carry it pretty hard if you keep it healthy to the mid-late game.


Great offensive synergy and can sit on most Zama variants - fun mon, Volcanion is good right now.


Underwhelming but definitely has a good niche, it's just overshadowed by Zama-C right now. I think it'll be a solid A- or A tier OU mon once the dust settles in the meta a fair bit.


This is the first generation where I've seen Lando-T basically kinda just... exist. It feels overshadowed by Great Tusk, and more often than not I just capitalize on Intimidate rather than be affected by it. Great glue but, I'm not feeling Lando-T as much right now.


Great mon before, still a great mon now. Moltres-G has a problem of either feeling like deadweight or being a team staple, so it's very mixed. Better overall than last gen though IMO.


It exists.


Not really feeling it either, also just kind of exists.​
Thundurus - t is extremely powerful on rain team as well as basculegion, thundurus can spam thunder and has access to ALOT of coverage: grass knot, sludge bomb, tera blast, sludge bomb, FOCUS BLAST, flash canon, dark pulse, phycic or even volt switch. focus blast destroys ground type switch ins - ursuluna, iron threads, tusk, chein pow and even hit magearna pretty hard. I've used both scarf and nasty plot/life orb sets With volt absorb for this definitely doesn't even needed to be ran in the ran. tera water Is also very op cuz of the defensive typing
 

bdt2002

Pokémon Ranger: Guardian Signs superfan
is a Pre-Contributor
Hello, current generation OU community. I’ve been busy reacting to the craziness that is Gen 9 Ubers ever since HOME dropped, so I haven’t been paying too much attention to post-HOME OU over the past few days as a result. I already knew about the Regieleki quickban and was wondering just how obscene some of these Pokémon you all keep mentioning really are.

I very recently came up with my own way of measuring and determine how overpowered and/or overcentralizing Pokémon in usage tiers are that’s based off of the classic “X out of 5” system. While I’m not going to act like I know anything about the advancing OU metagame, nor will I act like I have a lot of experience as a player, I’m still not sure that any of the current Pokémon the OU council may be looking at right now (mainly Magearna for now) would meet my very strict criteria for what I would call a 5 out of 5 on my scale. For reference, Regieleki was only sitting at a 3 for me at the time of its quickban, and it started as a 2.

Essentially what I’m asking with this post is how some of you would rank those Pokémon. I’ve seen a few other names tossed around, like Ursaluna, Sneasler (more specifically Dire Claw), Chien-Pao and Enamorus to name a few. I might be missing some underrated threats, but in any case I figured asking about your thoughts on them would help me to learn more as a player.
 
I know people have talked about Dire Claw being uncompetitive and problematic, but is it really any different than Serene Grace + Flinch move?
The difference there is that paraflinch requires some form of setup and you can deal with it passively (somewhat) with good teambuilding. If a tier has a known paraflincher yet you didn't take it into account, that's kinda on you. Also, you have abilities that prevent flinching now like inner focus that have more uses than just flinching, so they're viable to use.

Dire claw feels closer to swagplay or quick claw quick draw g-slowbro: no matter the team composition you have, there's a chance you'll lose entirely due to elements outside your control while also being an unreliable element for the user.

Like, you can't really plan your strategy around the chances of Dire Claw outside of MAYBE poison point shenanigans + a hex abuser, but you can't really prepare against it either because most steel types are bopped by you fighting STAB. The only REAL counter to the move is goldhengo and maybe a garg that has tera'd into a non fighting weakness.

That's my take on it, at least, though I feel like that move is the least pressing issue right now XD
 
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