QUICKBAN
I agree with everything that's already been said about this. It needs to go ASAP.
QUICKBAN
This one deserves more of an explanation but I still think it needs to go ASAP.
I think the main reason people don't see the problem with Annihilape is because so many people on the lower ladder don't know how to use it properly. Like, sure, if they carelessly switch into a Toxic, Nuzzle, or a WoW and it gets cripppled right away, yeah it's pretty straightforward. And if they don't know to run Taunt, yeah it's also easier to handle. But when good players use it carefully it's near impossible to handle unless you're willing to immediately sacrifice something and revenge kill it, which you're really only able to do if you're an HO team. And if you fail at revenge-killing it, you've just powered it up even further. Add in the fact that it's immune to Extremespeed and neutral to Sucker Punch, usually with multiple bulk-ups under its belt, and revenge-killing is difficult even for the most aggressive teams. Not to mention the fact that it can tera to whatever type it needs to avoid certain threats.
It singlehandedly moves Stall from "weak but somewhat viable" to "gets 6-0'd by one of the most common pokemon in the tier", and makes Balanced teams far more difficult to pull off. It's objectively bad when multiple playstyles are immediately negated by one pokemon existing. Just because something *can* *theoretically* be countered, doesn't mean it *actually* can be countered in practice. Most good players will be able to steer the ape away from trouble and it really only needs one free turn to start becoming an immediate problem. I say it needs to go.
I'd understand arguments in favour of a suspect rather than an outright ban, but my personal vote would be ban.
QUICKBAN
I don't think there's any way this pokemon, as it exists right now, can be part of a healthy OU tier.
The biggest problem for Cyclizar is that it enables some of the cringiest aspects of pokemon that are otherwise manageable. The ability to get a free sub up for any set-up sweeper exacerbates problems with so many other pokemon. It's a shame for Cyclizar, because it will never be the problem on its own. It can't do much damage, and it's utility moves are slightly annoying but not ever a serious problem that can't be handled by most, if not all, teams.
So, just ban Shed Tail, you might say. But having experimented with both Cyclizar and Orthworm, it's very clear that Shed Tail itself isn't the problem. It's the fact that Cyclizar can get 3-4 Shed Tails off a game no problem, with no additional support. Compare that to Orthworm, with no form of recovery, a terrible speed tier, weak special defenses, and a very limited set of viable moves it can run. Orthworm will typically only get one Shed Tail off per game. Even if you run Leftovers, it's probably taking enough chip damage to fall below 50%, not to mention the fact that it can be easily outrun and chipped below if its close. That means it's only got one chance to make its Shed Tail be a game-changer, and most well-constructed teams can handle one Shed Tail. And if you want to get more Shed Tails out of it, you have to run Pawmot Revival Blessing without hazards up, or somebody with Healing wish, which requires multiple pokemon to pull off.
The problem is that when you *don't* have to be perfect with your Shed Tail timing, you can just keep spamming it, and eventually end up in a game breaking position. It's overly constraining towards teambuilding to need to have *so many ways* of handling different set-up sweepers behind a sub. When offensive play takes next to no thought, and defensive counterplay has to be nearly perfect to avoid a sweep, something isn't balanced right. And I personally believe most of the set-up sweepers are fine on their own, it's Cyclizar's support that takes them over the edge.
I fully believe this thing is just objectively bad for the tier and needs to go ASAP.
NO ACTION
Why can't we just have nice things?
But seriously, I don't find this to be game-breaking at all. In fact, I think it's necessary for the tier. Right now, it's the only thing in my team that can switch into Chi-Yu. Granted we all know Chi-Yu will be gone ASAP so that's not really a consideration anymore.
I think it's very limited in terms of possible movepool. It's always running Salt Cure and Recover, so you just have to just figure out if it's running SR + Protect or ID + Body Press. I personally run Curse + EQ but I hardly see anyone else using that set. It's great for pressuring Clodsire and Toxapex.
If it's running ID + Body Press, it's giving free switch-ins to Gholdengo, Dragapult, Annihilape, and Skeledirge, all of whom can immediately threaten it. If it's running SR + Protect, it can be far too passive and gets hard-walled by anything with Covert Cloak. I believe the meta has adapted to both of these sets already. If you're, for example, getting swept by ID + Body Press sets consistently, the problem is with your team, not the pokemon. I agree with what someone earlier said, about it basically being in the same place now that Toxapex was in previous generations. Meta-defining, but not game-breaking.
Its stats are objectively fantastic and it can be equally bulky on the special or physical side, but its attack is average with only curse to boost it. It's always going to be manageable on the side it hasn't invested in. I.e., if you invest max SP Def, you lose the ability to stay in against EQ's and many other Fighting STAB attacks. If you invest in max Phys Def, you can get easily taken out by any water or grass attacks on the special side (not to mention Skeledirge Earth Power, especially after a Torch Song). Tera helps to an extent, but I don't find it fundamentally changes the situation. It's still going to be weak on whichever defense it hasn't invested in, and will still primarily rely on Salt Cure for damage.
I've seen nothing that leads me to believe it's worthy of even a suspect, let alone a ban.
NO ACTION / SUSPECT
Maybe a controversial one but I think Gholdengo is probably, just about, fine as-is.
Yes it's one of the best pokemon in the tier. Yes Make it Rain hits like a nuke. Yes Shadow Ball is so easily spammable. Yes not being able to Defog/Rapid Spin against it is annoying. But no, I don't think it's game-breaking or invalidates playstyles, as others have said.
The main reasons I don't think it's broken are: (1) very straightforward to revenge kill (2) relies too much on its item and you can usually tell what set it's running from its item (3) prediction-reliant, especially when choice-locked, and (4) so many ways of clearing hazards still exist.
(1) Its average speed tier means it's quite straightforward to outspeed and revenge kill. It's weak to Sucker Punch, and has to tera to not get taken out by STAB Sucker Punch's. It only outspeeds Great Tusk if it's Scarfed, for example. Allowing it to either KO it or force a switch and Spin away Hazards. And if it's Scarfed, it runs into problem 3 about being prediction-reliant when choice-locked.
(2) It *needs* a Scarf to hit a good speed tier, it *needs* Specs to maximize its wall-breaking, and it *needs* Leftovers or Air Balloon to run a Nasty Plot set. It's always going to be missing whatever items it isn't using. If you don't see Leftover or Air Balloon, you *know* it's going to be choice-locked and can play accordingly. If it's got a Balloon or Leftovers, you know it's bulkier and probably Nasty Plot. If you don't see it, you know it's likely 3 attacks + trick.
(3) Following on from the items point, it becomes quite predictable once you know what set it's running and you can react accordingly and play your check. And yes, you should have a Gholdengo check in your team. I don't believe that makes it game-breaking.
(4) Yeah, it's annoying that you can't Defog/Spin on it, but there are still plenty of ways of dealing with hazards. I personally run a Magic Bouncer in all my teams and really never have an issue with them. It's quite predictable when people will set hazards, and it's easy enough to safely get your bouncer in. Hatterene is particularly handy for this role because it magic bounces hazards away, and can then paralyze Gholdengo through its ability with Nuzzle.
All in all, I agree it's meta-defining, but I don't think it's broken. I wouldn't complain about a suspect, and it's no skin off my back as I personally don't even run one in my team, but I'd personally vote no ban.
NO ACTION
This thing absolutely won't be an issue once Cyclizar is gone. It's basically a gimmick pokemon that needs so much support to work. Once Cyclizar is out of the picture, it will be very difficult to set up the same way. It's quite fragile on the physical side, weak to Sucker Punch, neutral to Extremespeed, and can't hit hard until after at least two turns, giving plenty of time (and margin for error) to switch in your counter. I don't want to spend a lot of time on this one because it's the least problematic pokemon on this list. I've personally never had an issue dealing with it, and once Cyclizar is gone, it's going to be even less of an issue. No ban, no suspect.
NO ACTION
Another one for me that falls under "why can't we have nice things?"
It's very good, but in my opinion, definitely not broken. It's another one that will be weakened by the loss of Cyclizar support. Without a guaranteed sub up, it's highly susceptible to status, being completely neutralized by WoW, T/Wave, Nuzzle, and doesn't want to be Toxic'd. It needs *at least* one DD to start sweeping but probably wants 2 or more. It can always get at least one due to multiscale, but it needs more than one to guarantee certain KO's with Extremespeed.
I personally run a tera normal one with DD/Silk Scarf and I find it to be a great cleaner, but it definitely needs support. It can't push through Corviknight or Dondozo, and it doesn't like coming up against Great Tusk. It also suffers from moveslot selection, and misses whatever it doesn't have. Want Ice Spinner for Great Tusk? Well, you're not getting through Dondozo or Corviknight. Want Thunderpunch for Corviknight? Well, you get walled by Tusk and still don't push through Dondozo. And if you don't run Roost? Well, you're going to struggle with longevity.
I think this is one that is very good, but not broken, and I think most people will come around to this once Cyclizar is gone. I believe it's the combination of Shed Tail support and multiscale that make people think it's broken.
NO ACTION / SUSPECT
I'll be sad if this one goes but I'll understand it.
Another one, like Gholdengo, that I think is very good and meta-defining, but I don't think it deserves a ban.
The primary argument I've seen for the ban is the fact that at tera dark it 2hko's the entire metagame with Crunch when Adamant and Choice Banded. I think people are forgetting what it gives up to get to that power level: (1) It has to give up its amazing speed tier (2) It becomes choice-locked and prediction reliant and (3) can't run HDB and is hazard weak making it more revenge killable.
When Adamant natured, Meowscarada, Cyclizar, and Roaring Moon all outspeed it, so does a +1'd Quaquaval. Banded Meowscarada ohko's with U turn and no hazards, and unbanded, it's a roll for ohko without hazards, and guaranteed with hazards up. Quaquaval resists its STAB and can ko with Close Combat.
It also becomes heavily prediction-reliant, and can risk getting locked into an unfavourable move and be forced to switch. If it locks on Crunch, it becomes susceptible to Extremespeed Dragonite and Mach Punchers like Breloom. If it locks onto Sucker Punch it can be forced to switch giving you valuable free turns.
Finally, and what really puts it over the edge for me as being not too broken, is the fact that it's so frail and weak to the most common entry hazards before tera-ing. If its banded, it can't run HDB meaning it loses 25% on entry, if it gets choice locked into the wrong move it'll have to switch out and come back in and take more hazard damage. Rocky Helmet further chips away at this. All of this combined means it's quite straightforward to get down into the range where it can be revenge-killed, *especially* by Choice Scarf'd pokemon. It doesn't want status, and gets crippled by all of WoW, Toxic, and any type of paralysis. It's difficult to switch in freely, as it has poor defenses, only one immunity, and is weak to all entry hazards.
I really don't think this thing is as broken and spammable as Chi-Yu. Unlike Chi-Yu, it takes Rocky Helmet chip damage. Unlike Chi-Yu it can be poisoned by Baneful Bunker or weakened by Spiky Shield. It also obviously gets immediately shut down by Scizor. Ice isn't as strong of an offensive type as Fire, and can't be boosted by weather. It's SD sets can't get through Dondozo. Even it's banded sets don't want to take a Body Press from Dondozo.
I will totally understand if this gets suspected, and I wouldn't be shocked to see it banned, but I really hope it stays. I personally run a Choice Scarf because it hits a nutty speed tier (outruns +2'd Jolly Tusk which is funny because they never expect it) but it definitely misses the damage from not being banded. I think it's a top-tier revenge killer and an absolutely elite breaker, but it doesn't have the role compression issues that some of these other top pokemon have. It can't really support the team other than through damage, so it forces the rest of your team to pick up the slack on utility. Once a few these obviously broken pokemon are quickbanned, I think this should be given a chance to stay in the tier.
For context on my opinions, the team I've been running for the past few weeks is: Dragapult, Dragonite, Garganacl, Corviknight, Chien-Pao, and Espeon/Hatterene.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Quickban
Suspect
Quickban
No Action
No Action
No Action
No Action
Suspect
