Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[Supersam10001]

Alright, what consistently deals with Grimmsnarl? Defog is unreliable in Gholdengo land, and every Taunter gets Taunted.

What consistently deals with this thing without getting Parting Shot'd into a check?

The only Pokémon that deals with it that I've used myself is Scizor, but every Taunter gets shut down and nothing can usually stop it from setting up screens.

Something which also beats grim 1v1 also does decent offense and can kill gholdengo is

Tauros-Paldea-Fire.
With a strong type of fire-fighting it's able to use raging bull to remove screens.
It also has moves like earthquake, close combat, and outrage to deal with stuff like dnite [as long as it doesn't tera] and is one of the few offensive options one can use to take a hit or 2 from weaville on crack [aka chi-yu] and can beat non-sash Cereludge too. With a scarf set, it can outrun most of the pokemon in this meta without speed boosts. I usually run a tera type [without tera blast] of grass on it to take ground moves better but that's just how I like to use it.
There are two possible sets for this pretty much-

Tauros-Paldea-Fire @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Grass/Fire/Fighting/Ground [Depends on you]
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Raging Bull
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Outrage/Tera Blast
You can also obviously use the other variants but in my opinion this one is def the best one 100% percent.
I've also experimented a bit with this set to beat the weird shed tail monster and screens [idk the name].

Tauros-Paldea-Fire (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Expert Belt [Your choice]
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Raging Bull
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Outrage

 

[1LDK]

You supposed to say "Psychic" type, check your grammar because I already mastered it.

God i fucking love it when the only response i get is a snarky grammar response
Sorry for being ESL and writing this at 2 AM, i'll fix it and all good right?

 

[Tarzan917]

I think the reason why the Houndstone ban in regards to Last Respects needs to be revisited is because theres a whole slew of Pokemon in OU this generation that could be easily addressed if we could just ban moves instead of the Pokemon that learn them. Not just Last Respects, but also Shed Tail and Revival Blessing. Even Rage Fist would be an easier ban argument than Annihilape itself. Its not the same as with Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle, where its the entirety of the Pokemon in its typing, ability, statline, and movepool that is broken for OU and not just a singular move in its learnset. I for one would just like these Gen 9 Pokemon to run free, even if not in OU, but without them running these oppressive moves.

These moves I think are also holding back an honest evaluation of Terastalization in OU as a mechanic. I really wish Shed Tail was banned back with Palafin and Iron Bundle.

 

[alephgalactus]

You’re supposed to say "Psychic" type. Check your grammar, because I’ve already mastered it.

Fixed that for you

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Orthworm with Shed Tail is, at least based on my time using and playing against it, a very obviously balanced Pokemon. Its low speed and lack of recovery outside of Rest and Earth Eater (lol does that even count?) means that the act of passing off a Substitute is a highly committal decision, as there is no guarantee that you will be able to use Rest later to pass off a second one even if you do have a Chesto Berry and there is a very real risk of just being straight-up denied if you decide to set up hazards or otherwise do anything other than Shed Tail vs a Pokemon with any move that it isn't immune to due to being a base 65 Spe Pokémon with mediocre HP and SpD that depends on being at >50% health to do the one job that gives it anything more than a tiny immunity-centric niche, and that's before even factoring in Taunt users. Its Substitute is equally as sturdy as Cyclizar's due to its low HP, though the trade-off is that there is a better chance that it will stay up if it gets a chance to pass one off due to its lower Speed stat. There is no point in gimping a very obviously unproblematic Pokemon because of the impact that another significantly more problematic Pokemon is having on the game.

The point being the reward is so high with shed tail that if we ban cyclizar, people will just run max hp/defense scarf orthworm to do the same thing slightly less easily. Shed tail is very much the problem, not necessarily cyclizar. Regenerator is stupid sure, but nothing else about cyclizar is problematic.

The problem remains that shed tail enables some absolutely ludicrous shit like Multiscale dragon dance dragonite, and that stupid ostrich among others, and that they would not be broken without shed tail.

 

[pika pal]

The point being the reward is so high with shed tail that if we ban cyclizar, people will just run max hp/defense scarf orthworm to do the same thing slightly less easily. Shed tail is very much the problem, not necessarily cyclizar. Regenerator is stupid sure, but nothing else about cyclizar is problematic.

The problem remains that shed tail enables some absolutely ludicrous shit like Multiscale dragon dance dragonite, and that stupid ostrich among others, and that they would not be broken without shed tail.

I think the degree of "slightly less easy" is the potential balancing factor in this context. One reason Cyclizar is so contentious as a Shed Tail user is because Regenerator and his speed make it very low risk for him to click Shed Tail since he takes a small net-loss of Health to pass the Sub. The fact that Shed Tail is always a possibility Cyclizar can get out if he hits the field coupled with how many times he can do it means you can almost never risk a lower momentum play as long as there's a chance he comes in on it. If the Sub comes out well, they set up and potentially seal a win for the match; if you stop the Sub, you've foiled one of 3-4 attempts they can get throughout the match which is discouraging non-aggressive play.

Orthworm by comparison can do a similar thing with Shed Tail... once in the match unless you get lucky with Earth Eater or avoiding damage completely on him. So he's a lot more high-risk/high-reward in usage (he doesn't pass higher bulk Subs than Cyc does) and thus can't be played to Shed Tails aggressively, by which I mean Cyclizar constantly threatening to bring a Subbed-Sweeper in to discourage other plays, while even having additional utility like U-Turn (non-Sub switching to net-gain on Health), Rapid Spin, and Knock Off.

So basically, Chien-Pao, Kingambit, and Roaring Moon can cheese the non-Thunder Wave variants. Yeah, that makes sense.

I think they even block Thunder Wave versions because Status moves from a Prankster Mon auto-fail on Dark Types (so Grimmsnarl's T-Wave would whiff while something like the now-dexited Ferrothorn would land). Dark Mons are basically immune to anything non-damage that Grimmsnarl could use, including being Taunted before taunting him if they run such a move.

 

[Negative Charge]

Alright, what consistently deals with Grimmsnarl? Defog is unreliable in Gholdengo land, and every Taunter gets Taunted.

What consistently deals with this thing without getting Parting Shot'd into a check?

The only Pokémon that deals with it that I've used myself is Scizor, but every Taunter gets shut down and nothing can usually stop it from setting up screens.

I tech brick break on my dark types just for Grim.

 

[Jeune Homme]

The combination of Revival Blessing + Healing Wish + Annihilape is hilarious https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1731854098
It feels so wrong when I just let Annihilape die to trade him for a check, which boosts Rage Fist, to only then revive it and sweep later on

 

[FCKNfuego]

Shed Tail I believe should be banned as opposed to Cyclizard if it is deemed broken. I do certainly think speed and regenerator help immensely in making Cyclizard such a great Pokemon to run, however I don't think that makes the move okay.

The reason Shed Tail seems as problematic as it currently does is because its primary user has Regenerator and very high speed easily enabling multiple uses of the move. I doubt people would be complaining as much if the only Earthworm got it.

Shed tail can easily be a broken move on the right pokemon but it does need to be on the right mon. Cyclizar's combination of traits are what make it the problem here over the move itself imo.

 

[658Greninja]

I'm not sure i follow. Espathra has a much easier time setting up than you are making it out to be. Especially when factoring screens or shed tails. And passive pokemon (or pokemon who can't threaten to KO it) just let it set up especially. Priority is often shut down by Tera typing, which makes revenging it very difficult after a couple CMs since speed boost afterwards will be boosting stored power every turn til +6 speed.

Honestly on that note, Espathra is by far the pokemon I think has the most negative impact on the tier. And I would not be sorry to see it go.

It seems more like its Shed Tail and Tera that are the problem rather than Espathra.

 

[tigers jaw]

Alright, what consistently deals with Grimmsnarl? Defog is unreliable in Gholdengo land, and every Taunter gets Taunted.

What consistently deals with this thing without getting Parting Shot'd into a check?

The only Pokémon that deals with it that I've used myself is Scizor, but every Taunter gets shut down and nothing can usually stop it from setting up screens.

so basically, you have scizor as the best & most reliable counterlead to grimmsnarl. sets such as this & this are good ones, though there is a variety of sets scizor can run using terablast etc,. the first set will ohko almost every grimmsnarl at lead, as they need to be nearly max-def to survive bp reliably; the second set can either deal heavy damage, or tera and ohko. your choice.

as for other advice, just try to play in a manner that limits the screens grimmsnarl can get up. do this by forcing/taking opportunities for good chip, playing around the screens they do have up, and maintaining your own pressure.

 

[Leman123]

Haven't seen this thrown around yet so, Assault Vest Great Tusk. I just kind threw numbers in places for things and suff, 4 evs in atk mean if someone puts sun up you get the buff in atk. With spin being 50bp (when did it get a buff? Rip aging) normal tera actually hits semi hard and has dual purpose of removing its weaknesses while only adding 1 new one. Natural bulk + investments means it generally can spin more than once and can be abused as a general catch all with the current chaos. It does suck that its 2 best stabs lower stats but you could swap them out for brick break/body press/earthquake but i haven't tested those and with no atk investment i feel the extra power is worth the stats especially if you can get a cheeky 2nd spin off for the spd buff.

Great Tusk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 232 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner

I know this is 8 pages old, but I like this set a lot, but I think Future Donphan does it better. I think the point of Assault Vest (with wish support) I feel, is that you can basically beat any Gholdengo, force them out and get a spin. I think Future does it better cause of a higher SpDef and a Make it Rain resistance. Ancient is taking like 40% even with vest from Rain, while Future is much less than that, like 20. I also think you need Knock Off to make sure you can break balloons without giving the opponent a free turn.

Iron Treads @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Normal / Water / Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 248 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Volt Switch

I'm sure there's a better spread that can balance power and bulk, but Knock+EQ still always KOs Gholdengo and Volt Switch+Rocks+EQ also basically always KOs. And I'm stupid and bad at EV spreads.

 

[Mugenman88]

Iron Treads @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Normal / Water / Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 248 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Volt Switch

I'm sure there's a better spread that can balance power and bulk, but Knock+EQ still always KOs Gholdengo and Volt Switch+Rocks+EQ also basically always KOs. And I'm stupid and bad at EV spreads.

If you're aiming to bully out air balloon Gholdengo you should at least be running jolly + 80 speed in order to always be faster than it.

 

[Leman123]

If you're aiming to bully out air balloon Gholdengo you should at least be running jolly + 80 speed in order to always be faster than it.

Yeah, that fully makes sense. Jolly 252 HP/ 176 SpD / 80 Spe Jolly?

 

[Hyper-Go-ons]

Iron Treads @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Normal / Water / Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 248 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Volt Switch

With some Electric Terrain support, Iron Treads will get a defense boost from Quark Drive.

 

[Mugenman88]

Yeah, that fully makes sense. Jolly 252 HP/ 176 SpD / 80 Spe Jolly?

Not quite, 252 HP makes you hit a spikes number, better to use 248 HP / 180 SpD / 80 Spe with Jolly

 

[Player J]

I wish to Nominate Chi-Yu to be Ban.
Let me explain why below:

Today, I went to Smogon Team Builder.
I noticed my Dondozo can’t counter Chi-Yu.

Dondozo is water Pokémon.
Chi-Yu is fire/dark Pokémon.

I went to Smogon Chat to ask what is the deal with Dondozo?
They showed some Damage Calculations and said Dondozo gets crushed by Chi-Yu.

My reponse was:
Ok, Dondozo is on my team and I added him to counter Chi-Yu.
If Dondozo can’t counter Chi-Yu, I will remove him and add in a different Pokémon in his spot to counter Chi-Yu.

Thus, leading to the question, Who counters Chi-Yu?
Do you know what the Smogon chat said? Absolutely nothing!
It was *Crickets* Ladies & Gentleman.

I’m like Hello - Looking for Chi-Yu counter.
Do you know what a guy in Smogon chat said to me?
He said Nothing counters Chi-Yu.

At that point, I burst out laughing.
I had to give the Smogon chat a talking too.

Don’t you know where you people are?
This is Smogon OU Chat, baby!
Every Pokemon in Smogon OU has a counter.

If a Pokémon in Smogon OU doesn’t have a counter, It gets Ban to Ubers.
This is how Smogon OU rolls!

After putting the fear of ban in them, They started giving me the goods to save their broken Pokémon Or so I thought!
You will not believe what they told me ladies and gentlemen.

Person #1 said Tyranitar sort of counters Chi-Yu.
Person #2 said Azumaril in Assault Vest counters Chi-Yu, but not really.
WHAT?

”Sort of Counter”
”Counters, but not really“
WHAT ARE THESE PHRASES LADIES AND GENTLEMEN?

Back in my day, When Pokémon X was on the field running rampant, I ask for a counter.
A person would say use Pokémon Y as the counter.
Easy!

I ask for Chi-Yu counter and they are telling these things?
I gave the chat an example because their is clearly confusing going on.

Lets say I have Wo-Chein on the field (Grass/Dark Type)
Let’s say the Enemy switches in Chi-Yu (Fire/Dark Type)

I don’t want my Wo-Chein to get burned to death.
I want to switch out to a Pokémon who doesn’t take a lot of damage from Chi-Yu.
I want a counter!

Can I use Ttar or Azumarill as the counter?
Person #1 & #2 started freaking out in Smogon chat.

They said I can’t switch out like that.
They said Ttar & Azumarill don‘t counter Chi-Yu like that.

Well who does counter Chi-Yu?
Do you know what they said? Nothing!

IS IT TRUE?
No, OU Pokémon can counter Chi-Yu?
No, switch ins at all?

If the above is true, Do you know what this means?
It means the reason Chi-Yu has no counters in OU is because all his counters are in Uber and he belongs in Uber.

THUS, I END MY POST THE SAME WAY I BEGAN MY POST, I NOMINATE CHI-YU FOR A BAN TO UBERS.

 

[alephgalactus]

I wish to Nominate Chi-Yu to be Ban.
Let me explain why below:

Today, I went to Smogon Team Builder.
I noticed my Dondozo can’t counter Chi-Yu.

Dondozo is water Pokémon.
Chi-Yu is fire/dark Pokémon.

I went to Smogon Chat to ask what is the deal with Dondozo?
They showed some Damage Calculations and said Dondozo gets crushed by Chi-Yu.

My reponse was:
Ok, Dondozo is on my team and I added him to counter Chi-Yu.
If Dondozo can’t counter Chi-Yu, I will remove him and add in a different Pokémon in his spot to counter Chi-Yu.

Thus, leading to the question, Who counters Chi-Yu?
Do you know what the Smogon chat said? Absolutely nothing!
It was *Crickets* Ladies & Gentleman.

I’m like Hello - Looking for Chi-Yu counter.
Do you know what a guy in Smogon chat said to me?
He said Nothing counters Chi-Yu.

At that point, I burst out laughing.
I had to give the Smogon chat a talking too.

Don’t you know where you people are?
This is Smogon OU Chat, baby!
Every Pokemon in Smogon OU has a counter.

If a Pokémon in Smogon OU doesn’t have a counter, It gets Ban to Ubers.
This is how Smogon OU rolls!

After putting the fear of ban in them, They started giving me the goods to save their broken Pokémon Or so I thought!
You will not believe what they told me ladies and gentlemen.

Person #1 said Tyranitar sort of counters Chi-Yu.
Person #2 said Azumaril in Assault Vest counters Chi-Yu, but not really.
WHAT?

”Sort of Counter”
”Counters, but not really“
WHAT ARE THESE PHRASES LADIES AND GENTLEMEN?

Back in my day, When Pokémon X was on the field running rampant, I ask for a counter.
A person would say use Pokémon Y as the counter.
Easy!

I ask for Chi-Yu counter and they are telling these things?
I gave the chat an example because their is clearly confusing going on.

Lets say I have Wo-Chein on the field (Grass/Dark Type)
Let’s say the Enemy switches in Chi-Yu (Fire/Dark Type)

I don’t want my Wo-Chein to get burned to death.
I want to switch out to a Pokémon who doesn’t take a lot of damage from Chi-Yu.
I want a counter!

Can I use Ttar or Azumarill as the counter?
Person #1 & #2 started freaking out in Smogon chat.

They said I can’t switch out like that.
They said Ttar & Azumarill don‘t counter Chi-Yu like that.

Well who does counter Chi-Yu?
Do you know what they said? Nothing!

IS IT TRUE?
No, OU Pokémon can counter Chi-Yu?
No, switch ins at all?

If the above is true, Do you know what this means?
It means the reason Chi-Yu has no counters in OU is because all his counters are in Uber and he belongs in Uber.

THUS, I END MY POST THE SAME WAY I BEGAN MY POST, I NOMINATE CHI-YU FOR A BAN TO UBERS.

This reads like a chain email but I wholeheartedly agree that Chi-Yu needs to go.

 

[1LDK]

I wish to Nominate Chi-Yu to be Ban.
Let me explain why below:

Today, I went to Smogon Team Builder.
I noticed my Dondozo can’t counter Chi-Yu.

Dondozo is water Pokémon.
Chi-Yu is fire/dark Pokémon.

I went to Smogon Chat to ask what is the deal with Dondozo?
They showed some Damage Calculations and said Dondozo gets crushed by Chi-Yu.

My reponse was:
Ok, Dondozo is on my team and I added him to counter Chi-Yu.
If Dondozo can’t counter Chi-Yu, I will remove him and add in a different Pokémon in his spot to counter Chi-Yu.

Thus, leading to the question, Who counters Chi-Yu?
Do you know what the Smogon chat said? Absolutely nothing!
It was *Crickets* Ladies & Gentleman.

I’m like Hello - Looking for Chi-Yu counter.
Do you know what a guy in Smogon chat said to me?
He said Nothing counters Chi-Yu.

At that point, I burst out laughing.
I had to give the Smogon chat a talking too.

Don’t you know where you people are?
This is Smogon OU Chat, baby!
Every Pokemon in Smogon OU has a counter.

If a Pokémon in Smogon OU doesn’t have a counter, It gets Ban to Ubers.
This is how Smogon OU rolls!

After putting the fear of ban in them, They started giving me the goods to save their broken Pokémon Or so I thought!
You will not believe what they told me ladies and gentlemen.

Person #1 said Tyranitar sort of counters Chi-Yu.
Person #2 said Azumaril in Assault Vest counters Chi-Yu, but not really.
WHAT?

”Sort of Counter”
”Counters, but not really“
WHAT ARE THESE PHRASES LADIES AND GENTLEMEN?

Back in my day, When Pokémon X was on the field running rampant, I ask for a counter.
A person would say use Pokémon Y as the counter.
Easy!

I ask for Chi-Yu counter and they are telling these things?
I gave the chat an example because their is clearly confusing going on.

Lets say I have Wo-Chein on the field (Grass/Dark Type)
Let’s say the Enemy switches in Chi-Yu (Fire/Dark Type)

I don’t want my Wo-Chein to get burned to death.
I want to switch out to a Pokémon who doesn’t take a lot of damage from Chi-Yu.
I want a counter!

Can I use Ttar or Azumarill as the counter?
Person #1 & #2 started freaking out in Smogon chat.

They said I can’t switch out like that.
They said Ttar & Azumarill don‘t counter Chi-Yu like that.

Well who does counter Chi-Yu?
Do you know what they said? Nothing!

IS IT TRUE?
No, OU Pokémon can counter Chi-Yu?
No, switch ins at all?

If the above is true, Do you know what this means?
It means the reason Chi-Yu has no counters in OU is because all his counters are in Uber and he belongs in Uber.

THUS, I END MY POST THE SAME WAY I BEGAN MY POST, I NOMINATE CHI-YU FOR A BAN TO UBERS.

For the moment your best bets are spedef ttar, av azu, Spedef gastro, anything with good spedef, good hp and can tank at least 1 of the 2 stabs and basically being faster than it, which is hard but duable, unless of course it teras into something and that might change your plans a bit, also Dondozo does not counter chi yu due to his low special defense and chi yu can just dark pulse his way out

 

[Jerdor]

What EV spreads are peeps using for Ting-Lu. Is it better to do mix investment in it's defensive stats, or go all in on one over the other?

 

[BolTingBlazie]

I think the degree of "slightly less easy" is the potential balancing factor in this context. One reason Cyclizar is so contentious as a Shed Tail user is because Regenerator and his speed make it very low risk for him to click Shed Tail since he takes a small net-loss of Health to pass the Sub. The fact that Shed Tail is always a possibility Cyclizar can get out if he hits the field coupled with how many times he can do it means you can almost never risk a lower momentum play as long as there's a chance he comes in on it. If the Sub comes out well, they set up and potentially seal a win for the match; if you stop the Sub, you've foiled one of 3-4 attempts they can get throughout the match which is discouraging non-aggressive play.

Orthworm by comparison can do a similar thing with Shed Tail... once in the match unless you get lucky with Earth Eater or avoiding damage completely on him. So he's a lot more high-risk/high-reward in usage (he doesn't pass higher bulk Subs than Cyc does) and thus can't be played to Shed Tails aggressively, by which I mean Cyclizar constantly threatening to bring a Subbed-Sweeper in to discourage other plays, while even having additional utility like U-Turn (non-Sub switching to net-gain on Health), Rapid Spin, and Knock Off.

Usually 9 times out of 10 orthworm is typically bulky enough to get one shed tail off, and while not as reliable it can still at least pass one substitute reliably, which in the context of all the deadly sweepers in OU can usually be all you need to set up without risk and end a game outright. Yes Cyclizar is a way better abuser of the move, but if we ban Cyclizar people will just run orthworm to pull off the same stuff with a slightly higher risk of being slower and lacking recovery. My point being, Cyclizar shouldn't be problematic and neither should Orthworm be, and shed tail is making both pretty problematic or potentially problematic for enabling some of the stupidest most uncompetitive shit.

Also Chi-Yu needs to go. Its faster fire/dark lele, which makes it more annoying to deal with specs. Lele at least had its speed keeping it in check. I hope to see a suspect for Chi-Yu. Then we can deal with terastal once Shed tail and Chi-Yu get yeeted.

 

[KamenOH]

When does 'broken checks broken' transition to 'it's a new generation'? If I'm reading the room right, there's a fuckton, almost literally, of new and broke ass shit from gen 9, but im seeing it as being viewed as such because of how close it still is to the previous, much different, gen 8.

Defense as a playstyle has been kicked so fucking hard it isn't more than a mangled mess of rotting bones, too desecrated for even the flies to feast upon. Recover and moves like it have had their PP halved, while toxic and scald have been gatekept from everything that would greatly appreciate them, and hazards are rearing their ugly ass head again with another ghost type spinblocker at the reins, making it harder and harder for defensive cores to stay alive over the course of a game, and thats not even getting into the numerous offensive powerhouses game genie'd in last month. It is more accurate to say that we are in a similar position to Snorlax in gen 2 vs the big three of gen 1: the king is dead, long live the king.

This doesn't even scratch Terastal as a gimmick/feature. While yes, you can utilize it well on a defensive pokemon, as with Fairy Skeledirge (thats the unaware fire/ghost starter, right? aint on a name basis with most the gen yet) or other examples others will likely know far better than me, it is best used on offensive pokemon, in both a defensive and offensive light. Take Dragonite, who will almost always run tera normal so that it not only exploits Extreme Speed, but loses its crippling weakness in Ice, or Roaring Moon, where it will go flying type to gain a bonus on Acrobatics, in conjunction with losing the fairy and fighting type weaknesses. It, being Tera, compounds the baseball bat to the knees that defensive play has gotten in SV, and leads us to a meta where HO and even BO are the strongest of playstyles, over Balance in prior gens.

Now, is this a bad thing? Depends. Fun is subjective and competitiveness is also, but less so. Is it more competitive to have a faster paced meta, with strong pokemon like dragapult and dragonite (dragonchads winning again) at the forefront, or is it more competitive for us to take it a bit slower, with stockier pokemon being more notable, like toxapex and blissey? Ultimately, I can't give a definitive answer for this. That is what we have the luxury of time for, to let us look back and ask, "are we better off nowadays?"

This probably looks like a vomit bucket, filled with the empty spittle of my gut, but I do think so much has changed this generation in comparison to Sword and Shield's that its unfair to aim for a metagame similar to the last. Perhaps we're just in for a trip down offense lane.

 

[Sheep007]

What EV spreads are peeps using for Ting-Lu. Is it better to do mix investment in it's defensive stats, or go all in on one over the other?

Depends on your team and what you need, but I'd typically focus on one over the other. For example, if you really struggle with Iron Treads and need Ting-Lu as your counter you'd want to focus on defense, or if you can't switch into Gholdengo, you probably want to pump up the SpDef.

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

As I said in my previous post, I’ve been mostly inactive so I apologize if there has been a well-known meta development to account for this, but why is Iron Valiant no longer on the tiering radar? What is able to reliably answer its various sets?

Also, I understand that a decision regarding Tera likely needs to be made before looking into mons that may be problematic with Tera, but since Tera is included in the current metagame, I’ll continue down that path for a moment. I’ve seen people talk about how if Tera remains, Dragonite should be examined because of the Tera normal Extremespeed set, and I understand that perspective, but is it a similarly common sentiment concerning Kingambit? I feel like Kingambit abuses Tera just as hard, if not harder, than Dragonite and it’s even more unpredictable by virtue of having several viable Tera types that can allow it to completely reverse sweep an otherwise lopsided game.

 

[Hyper-Go-ons]

But Cyclizar gets outspeed by Dragapult and Chien-Pao and it gets OHKOed by them before it can use Shed Tail.

Pawmot and Breloom have Mach Punch so they can deal Massive damage to Cyclizar.

252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pawmot Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 306-362 (108.5 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 398-471 (141.1 - 167%) -- guaranteed OHKO