can confirm. garganacl is really bulky
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
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Someone drop a busted Pawmot team in here
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
But seriously, Garganacl’s pretty based. Massive bulk + status immunity + Ghost resist + Tera + unique move that deals turnly damage + IronPress + recovery
I'm about to take my first actual step into OU, is a bulky attacker/spinner Great Tusk a good fit on Sun?
I got Tork, Chi-Yu, Roaring Moon, Dondozo and Tusk so far, thinking about Slither Wing or maybe Scizor in the last slot, but I haven't really seen what people are running for Sun beyond that.
I got Tork, Chi-Yu, Roaring Moon, Dondozo and Tusk so far, thinking about Slither Wing or maybe Scizor in the last slot, but I haven't really seen what people are running for Sun beyond that.
I absolutely LOVE Garganacl. To me and my style it's just about the perfect Pokemon. Setup that makes you bulkier, passive damage, weird resistances, status immunity... it's the whole package of my dreams. I just have to figure out what partners well with it. I've found it's a really effective check to non-Hydro Pump Specs Dragapult, and Water-Tera is a great way to take advantage of Gholdengo and others (like Hydro Pump Dragapult haha). What have others been running alongside Garganacl to let it shine?
It is actually, you can free a slot on torkoal to run some other nice moves like yawn or smog, and tusk is the best Gholdengo counter we have right now, since proto activates in sun, your not forced to run Booster energy, this means you can run pretty cool stuff
speaking on Booster energy, hot take, its the most overrated item in the game right now, sure it actives broken mechanics, but its all in for 1 time chance, sure you can delay the mon untill is ready, or you know, run torkoal/Pincurchin to make them be more active and flexible when entering the field, not running booster energy lets them run items more usefull in the long run like choice, expert belt, life orb, leftovers, etc, and Knock Off is almost non existance in this meta, so you dont have to run away from anything, and even tho some people might argue that being force to specific playstiles and mons is restricting the overall grand scheme of things, Torkoal is in an extremly comfy spot right due to his massive move pool, and Chi yu, meanwhile pincuching has access to both spikes and tspikes, recover and memento to open a hole in anything that is not Defiant Anhiliape, and even he doesnt like getting Twaved because that opens the chance to getting cheesed out of the match
TLDR: Read the fucking post
Yo that’s a crazy tech! It’s probably pretty situational, but that could be a dangerous lure against some Pokémon, especially with terra
Garganacl @ Leftovers
Level: 100
Careful Nature
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera type:whatever you want
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
- Recover
- Protect
- Salt Cure
- Block
could be optimized more, but this is like a crazier demon mew from SwSh
Having an absolute blast with the following combo, it’s really fun, tho currently trying to design a team that can reach 1800+ with this setup:
Step 1. trick room + healing wish hatterene to lead
Step 2. Use a hard hitting tank, such as garganacyl to setup, or kingambit, keep going until you faint and take down 1-2 KOs with you
step 3. Trick room + revival blessing + memento on that bug psychic orb thing
step 4. Keep playing like normal, just keeping in mind when you bring in your fainted garganacyl/kingambit or whatever, it’s got its full HP restored lol
step 5. Sweep with either the revival Pokémon or another sweeper like espartha
Rabsca resists ground and fighting, whilst it doesn’t faint to knock off. So it has value against great tusk lol
Step 1. trick room + healing wish hatterene to lead
Step 2. Use a hard hitting tank, such as garganacyl to setup, or kingambit, keep going until you faint and take down 1-2 KOs with you
step 3. Trick room + revival blessing + memento on that bug psychic orb thing
step 4. Keep playing like normal, just keeping in mind when you bring in your fainted garganacyl/kingambit or whatever, it’s got its full HP restored lol
step 5. Sweep with either the revival Pokémon or another sweeper like espartha
Rabsca @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Revival Blessing
- Memento
- Earth Power
Hatterene (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Healing Wish
Kingambit @ Life Orb
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 21 Spe
- Bullet Seed
- Close Combat
- Spore
- Aerial Ace
Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 236 HP / 20 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Press
- Salt Cure
- Iron Defense
- Recover
Espathra @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Def / 248 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam
- Substitute
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Revival Blessing
- Memento
- Earth Power
Hatterene (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Healing Wish
Kingambit @ Life Orb
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 21 Spe
- Bullet Seed
- Close Combat
- Spore
- Aerial Ace
Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 236 HP / 20 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Press
- Salt Cure
- Iron Defense
- Recover
Espathra @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Def / 248 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam
- Substitute
Rabsca resists ground and fighting, whilst it doesn’t faint to knock off. So it has value against great tusk lol
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Does anyone know how Ditto interacts with Revival Blessing since it typically turns all copied moves into 5 PP? If it could use 5 revives that would be pretty punishing for the original user and also hilarious. I still don't fully know how to feel about Revival Blessing, though it seems strong and I've had a lot of fun using it on Trick Room w/ Rabsca
i believe even a revival blessing copied by ditto has 1pp. i remember seeing that in the bh thread at least
block is cool but would be cooler in a gen with unnerfed recovery PP
As valid as this may be, I just want to point out that no skill priority spam is a pretty good way to invalidate frail speed boosting pokemon.
Tera into Sucker, Scizor is losing usage by the day, Jet Punch is gone — Normal DNite is fair though ofc.
Espathra and Annihilape for sure. Probably Chi Yu as well. You can argue for Dragonite or Roaring Moon as well. Options like Dragapult, Baxcalibur, and Volcarona are awesome, too, but not necessarily major problems atm
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
You can tell the meta is screwed up when Dragapult gets a physical Ghost move with double STAB and that’s not even in the top ten list of things people are talking about
I know charizard isn’t OU but what is the best nature for it? Blaze with jolly or timid with solar power? Need an expert
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Raid bosses already have egg moves, it's just... none of them are Heal Bell. Even if this game kept SS's egg move passing mechanics Blissey could still get Seismic Toss because the 5-star Blissey raid has it.
Well if there is one good thing espathra did, it gives us another reason why shed tail and revival blessing are broken and uncompetitve moves that should get sent to the realms of AG.
Okay, I haven't even attempted to make a "serious" team yet, since the meta is a madhouse and is probably going to take another month or two to really settle down between bans, people moving past new toy syndrome to settle on what actually works, and whatever decision is made with Tera. I've been exclusively laddering on my meme account, mostly testing out second tier mons and off-meta sets and sticking in the high 1400s across a bunch of styles. So, here are a bunch of thoughts from a truly mediocre player:
Gholdengo/Glimmora cores rarely seem as effective in practice as they do on paper. Glimmora just isn't that great at setting up hazards beyond TSpikes, and even then, the activation order with toxic debris rapid spin really hurts it. I honestly think Rocky Helmet Endure Glimmora is a decent set to create more opportunities later in the match to get up multiple layers of Tspikes while possibly messing with Rapid Spinners. But, really, that's mostly a good reminder that Garchomp might be the best hazard setter in the tier. Vastly bulkier, and that helmet+rough skin chip adds up quick and functionally blocks spins from weakened `mons. Clodsire and even Gastrodon are pretty fire, too, for more defensively minded teams. Gastro getting spikes and rocks is legit huge.
As for Gholdengo in particular, its defog immunity is really just icing on the cake, since using it to protect hazards just invites it to die to knock -> EQ from either new Donphan form. The overall status immunity, and the fact that it includes things like taunt, disable, and leech seed, is huge. I get the appeal of Scarf sets, but bulky Air Balloon has my heart when I stoop to using it.
On the topic of status immunity, Garganacl is a fantastic example of a mon that is really made by Tera without feeling dirty. Being able to grab momentum by freely switching into a predicted Spore/Wisp/whatever is amazing, but Rock is just not a good defensive type. Being able to tech into a Flying or Ghost or whatever best fits your team, along with the amazingness of Salt Cure and Purifying Salt, makes it a tier staple instead of an oddity (though the lack of good waters and grasses might keep it OU pre-home even without Tera). Skeledirge is another `mon that fits the bill here. It's probably UU without Tera, but with Tera it has an obvious role as defensive glue, even with more broken abusers around.
It's kinda nuts that the starter with protean feels the least reliable, but Meowscarada struggles so much with the speed/power creep (and the Protean nerf). It really wants to run Band for the extra oomph, but then you're at the mercy of `Pult, Scarf Gholdengo, Energy Booster Iron Valiant and more. Some of those faster `mons can be handled by Sucker Punch, but you need to have scouted the set first, and you lose a ton of momentum if they predict it. Scarf sets are...fine? Protean U-Turn will always have its uses. Quaquaval, meanwhile, doesn't remotely fill the niche Palafin vacated, but it's something you can't allow to start rolling.
I feel bad for besmirching the name of Lokix many pages ago. It is one last "balanced" tera abuser I'd like to call out, this time on the pseudo-Adaptability front. Tinted Lens First Impression is just stupid and helps keep so much otherwise unmanageable stuff in check. I'm a big big fan of the Silver Powder set I mentioned way back with FI/U-Turn/Sucker/Taunt. FI -> Taunt -> U-Turn on bulkier switch-ins (or Sucker Punch if they're in range) is just such a nice sequence to have in your pocket that it's worth giving up the extra juice you get from Band.
I'm very happy for Kilowattrel that Pelipper dropped to UU for now. I wanted to love bargain-bin Zapdos so bad, but it has a hard time outside of rain, and it's so frail that it's super unreliable there. Gholdengo also made it hard for it to run Competitive in OU to get the power boost it needs, though Water Tera with Volt Absorb is probably its best set for as long as Tera is around.
I've mentioned Tera a lot, and I find that I really enjoy it. It makes the whole meta a bit fishier overall, but I never eyeroll at it the same way I did Dynamax because it's not just "oh, great, now there's a super-mon on the field and I didn't bring my Ditto". There are definitely a bunch of `mons that you look at and think "well, I'm screwed if that thing gets position", but I'd much rather see some combination of the biggest offenders, Shed Tail, and Light Clay go before Tera at this moment to make people have to work harder to maneuver into those spots.
One final lightning round of new `mons/sets I've really enjoyed playing with.
Sub/Disable/Wisp/Hex Dragapult gets work done. It's not as blunt an instrument as Specs/Band, but it also means you never have to worry about Annihilape or any Specs/Band set ever, and rarely needs a Tera boost to get its work done.
Iron Hands is fantastic. Every match, it at least eats a big hit to get something I couldn't otherwise handle into revenge-able range. It is best friends with Lokix in this way.
Baxcalibur feels like what I always wanted Tyranitar to be, if that makes sense. After a DD, it just takes names. I've had it run through the last 3 `mons on the opposing team to steal a win multiple times.
Iron Moth is definitely best run with Agility but then it has severe 4MSS. It also wishes it could run Boots and LO at the same time, but if it gets lucky with a Fiery Dance boost or two, watch out.
I swear to god scarf Flamigo has a niche in OU as the fastest (non-mega) Scrappy Fighting type we've ever had. It somehow doesn't even need a fourth move beyond CC+BB+U-turn, though it wishes Scarf Chi-Yu and Iron Valiant didn't exist.
Aaaand, that's all. Hopefully some helpful thoughts there for someone. Anything anybody else is enjoying playing with?
Gholdengo/Glimmora cores rarely seem as effective in practice as they do on paper. Glimmora just isn't that great at setting up hazards beyond TSpikes, and even then, the activation order with toxic debris rapid spin really hurts it. I honestly think Rocky Helmet Endure Glimmora is a decent set to create more opportunities later in the match to get up multiple layers of Tspikes while possibly messing with Rapid Spinners. But, really, that's mostly a good reminder that Garchomp might be the best hazard setter in the tier. Vastly bulkier, and that helmet+rough skin chip adds up quick and functionally blocks spins from weakened `mons. Clodsire and even Gastrodon are pretty fire, too, for more defensively minded teams. Gastro getting spikes and rocks is legit huge.
As for Gholdengo in particular, its defog immunity is really just icing on the cake, since using it to protect hazards just invites it to die to knock -> EQ from either new Donphan form. The overall status immunity, and the fact that it includes things like taunt, disable, and leech seed, is huge. I get the appeal of Scarf sets, but bulky Air Balloon has my heart when I stoop to using it.
On the topic of status immunity, Garganacl is a fantastic example of a mon that is really made by Tera without feeling dirty. Being able to grab momentum by freely switching into a predicted Spore/Wisp/whatever is amazing, but Rock is just not a good defensive type. Being able to tech into a Flying or Ghost or whatever best fits your team, along with the amazingness of Salt Cure and Purifying Salt, makes it a tier staple instead of an oddity (though the lack of good waters and grasses might keep it OU pre-home even without Tera). Skeledirge is another `mon that fits the bill here. It's probably UU without Tera, but with Tera it has an obvious role as defensive glue, even with more broken abusers around.
It's kinda nuts that the starter with protean feels the least reliable, but Meowscarada struggles so much with the speed/power creep (and the Protean nerf). It really wants to run Band for the extra oomph, but then you're at the mercy of `Pult, Scarf Gholdengo, Energy Booster Iron Valiant and more. Some of those faster `mons can be handled by Sucker Punch, but you need to have scouted the set first, and you lose a ton of momentum if they predict it. Scarf sets are...fine? Protean U-Turn will always have its uses. Quaquaval, meanwhile, doesn't remotely fill the niche Palafin vacated, but it's something you can't allow to start rolling.
I feel bad for besmirching the name of Lokix many pages ago. It is one last "balanced" tera abuser I'd like to call out, this time on the pseudo-Adaptability front. Tinted Lens First Impression is just stupid and helps keep so much otherwise unmanageable stuff in check. I'm a big big fan of the Silver Powder set I mentioned way back with FI/U-Turn/Sucker/Taunt. FI -> Taunt -> U-Turn on bulkier switch-ins (or Sucker Punch if they're in range) is just such a nice sequence to have in your pocket that it's worth giving up the extra juice you get from Band.
I'm very happy for Kilowattrel that Pelipper dropped to UU for now. I wanted to love bargain-bin Zapdos so bad, but it has a hard time outside of rain, and it's so frail that it's super unreliable there. Gholdengo also made it hard for it to run Competitive in OU to get the power boost it needs, though Water Tera with Volt Absorb is probably its best set for as long as Tera is around.
I've mentioned Tera a lot, and I find that I really enjoy it. It makes the whole meta a bit fishier overall, but I never eyeroll at it the same way I did Dynamax because it's not just "oh, great, now there's a super-mon on the field and I didn't bring my Ditto". There are definitely a bunch of `mons that you look at and think "well, I'm screwed if that thing gets position", but I'd much rather see some combination of the biggest offenders, Shed Tail, and Light Clay go before Tera at this moment to make people have to work harder to maneuver into those spots.
One final lightning round of new `mons/sets I've really enjoyed playing with.
Sub/Disable/Wisp/Hex Dragapult gets work done. It's not as blunt an instrument as Specs/Band, but it also means you never have to worry about Annihilape or any Specs/Band set ever, and rarely needs a Tera boost to get its work done.
Iron Hands is fantastic. Every match, it at least eats a big hit to get something I couldn't otherwise handle into revenge-able range. It is best friends with Lokix in this way.
Baxcalibur feels like what I always wanted Tyranitar to be, if that makes sense. After a DD, it just takes names. I've had it run through the last 3 `mons on the opposing team to steal a win multiple times.
Iron Moth is definitely best run with Agility but then it has severe 4MSS. It also wishes it could run Boots and LO at the same time, but if it gets lucky with a Fiery Dance boost or two, watch out.
I swear to god scarf Flamigo has a niche in OU as the fastest (non-mega) Scrappy Fighting type we've ever had. It somehow doesn't even need a fourth move beyond CC+BB+U-turn, though it wishes Scarf Chi-Yu and Iron Valiant didn't exist.
Aaaand, that's all. Hopefully some helpful thoughts there for someone. Anything anybody else is enjoying playing with?
Haven't seen this thrown around yet so, Assault Vest Great Tusk. I just kind threw numbers in places for things and suff, 4 evs in atk mean if someone puts sun up you get the buff in atk. With spin being 50bp (when did it get a buff? Rip aging) normal tera actually hits semi hard and has dual purpose of removing its weaknesses while only adding 1 new one. Natural bulk + investments means it generally can spin more than once and can be abused as a general catch all with the current chaos. It does suck that its 2 best stabs lower stats but you could swap them out for brick break/body press/earthquake but i haven't tested those and with no atk investment i feel the extra power is worth the stats especially if you can get a cheeky 2nd spin off for the spd buff.
Great Tusk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 232 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner
Great Tusk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 232 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner
May not be the best set, or even a good set at all, but a really stupid thing I've been doing with Pawmot is as a manual Electric Terrain setter with Revival Blessing. The only thing better than getting a Revival Blessing off on Specs Valiant or Moth is by giving it a Quark Drive boost on top of it. Comes with the added benefit of an surprisingly strong Electric Terrain-powered Double Shock if you are into it.
May not be that good a set if at all, but hey, at least it's not Pincurchin.
May not be that good a set if at all, but hey, at least it's not Pincurchin.
chi yu is excellent with no terra and with no setup. Much more of a problem than the other two and substantially more warping. You can’t game plan for “immediate threat” as much as you can plan for “setup threat”, especially when it 2hkos almost everything relevant!
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