Resource SV NU Viability Rankings

[Phantomistix]

This thing can use Eviolite how is it worse

You want to switch into physical attackers most of the time, most of which base Qwilfish resists while Hisui doesn’t. Some situations like Bruxish and Cacturne are better for Hisui but overall I think base is much better. Hisui has the benefit of being neutral to electric but the enemy volts and now you’re a sitting duck.

 

[Loginator]

You want to switch into physical attackers most of the time, most of which base Qwilfish resists while Hisui doesn’t. Some situations like Bruxish and Cacturne are better for Hisui but overall I think base is much better. Hisui has the benefit of being neutral to electric but the enemy volts and now you’re a sitting duck.

Wow I just checked and Water/Poison has 4 more resistances. And the two types only share the resistance to Poison. Pretty surprising. I kinda assumed Poison/Dark was better because it only had one weakness and people say it’s good defensively but that makes sense. I will say that Qwilfish-H has the benefit of not dying immediately to special attacks.

 

[skierdude101]

B+ -> A-/A
As we just gained several eviolite users and lost our most potent knock off user (passimian), I think bombirdier gained some utility. Previously I only really viewed it as HO lead, but it definitely is capable on other structures looking for alternative SR setters or even just a pivot with knock utility. Looking at the rest of the VR in B+, I feel that is definitely more of the A-/A crowd than what we see in B+.

Stay at A
Wanted to include this here since I feel like prior to the drops Drifblim was dropping in usage as people become more accustomed to abusing it. However, post tier changes there were both positive and negative changes that end up balancing out, so I'd like it to stay where it is for now. Sliggoo is a definite hinderance to Blim, being able to sponge its attacks, not be too hindered by wisp, and most importantly blocking sap. Passimian was a major reason to use Drifblim (even though it could get knocked and Strength Sap would boost it), and the fighting-types that will inevitably take its place are mostly still put in check by Drifblim.

 

[ukaaa]

UR -> A+

Better overall than Toxicroak in almost any way. Sword Dance sets should always run two really great stabs while also leaving room open to vary on the third slot, usually it should be Traiblaze for Sandaconda. And after you set up and got +1 you outspeed the whole tier + potential scarfers. There is also the possibily that you can run Night Slash for Ghost/Psychic Types, compared to Toxicroak's Sucker Punch it is always the better option. I've also seen some sets on the ladder where people played Tera Blast Psychic to snipe grounded poison types (Qwilfish/Muk). While having a great offensive movepool it also has the option to run Choice Scarf/Choice Band with Switcheroo. Most common items should be Eviolite/Life Orb.

 

[Just_Aaron]

I will say that Qwilfish-H has the benefit of not dying immediately to special attacks.

A specially defensive variant with Eviolite could likely hold a niche, maybe even having a good matchup against Rotom.

 

[plznostep]

My Opinions ;3

I haven't made a post in a little while so i wanted to give some opinions for the VR :3


S- to S
With Passimian and Zoroark falling off a cliff and into the world of RU, I think Rotom has gotten even better then it was. Now it doesn't have to worry as much about getting sniped by a stray Zoroark and with Passimian gone, Rotom has stepped as a really splashable scarfer in the tier, I find myself being able to justify it on most of my teams nowadays so I think it deserves S rank at this point. We all know how difficult it is to answer and the set versatility is very good, so I thought I would nominate it to S


NEW to A+
From what I've seen, Sneasel seems like a very nice side grade to Toxicroak in the tier. It trades Toxicroak's Dry Skin, better Attack and Sucker Punch for a better speed tier, more bulk (with eviolite) and Switcheroo, which I really enjoy using on sets like Banded, with have proven to be pretty effective at breaking for me thanks to its high power STABs making up for its otherwise average Attack stat. It has set versatility with SD and its various tera options and Scarf and Banded are really nice sets so I believe it deserves a spot next to Toxicroak, they are pretty similar to each other really anyway.


NEW to B+
I think i'm very conflicted on Komala as a Pokemon but lets start with the pro's; Comatose is an incredibly good ability, even more so when status is basically permanent, unless you run Chansey. This makes Komala pretty nice at absorbing status from Pokemon like Drifblim and also makes it immune to Toxic Spikes which can be a pretty nice attribute when Komala also has Hazard Control so it may want to spin these away, it also has some nice coverage to stop spinblockers and also can pivot around with U-turn with some recovery in Wish. I think that it can be a bit underwhelming at times though because it only has about average bulk and its defensive typing doesn't really help it all that much so I don't know if i can justify it in the A tiers but there is definitely some stuff here so there's my take.
​

 

[Stories]

Tiering Update! With June's tier shifts, NU has seen a lot of changes; gaining Komala and losing three metagame staples in Lycanroc, Passimian, and Zoroark. Additionally, all NFE's brought to us via Pokemon Home are now available to all lower tiers. The most important ones are Qwilfish-Hisui, Sliggoo-Hisui, Sneasel-Hisui, and Thwackey.

Rises and Drops:

New:
Komala New! -> B
Qwilfish-H New! -> B+
Sliggoo-H New! -> B+
Sneasel-H New! -> A+
Thwackey New! -> B-

Rises:
Rotom S- -> S
Scyther A+ -> S
Cacturne A -> A+
Dudunsparce A+ -> S-
Jolteon A -> A+
Ursaring A -> A+
Magneton A- -> A
Oricorio-F A- -> A
Bombirdier B+ -> A+
Pyroar B+ -> A
Braviary B- -> B
Glaceon B- -> B
Sawsbuck B- -> B
Camerupt C+ -> B-
Lilligant C -> B-
Raichu C+ -> B-
Leafeon UR -> B-
Swalot UR -> B-
Dugtrio UR -> C

Muk S- -> A+
Umbreon A+ -> A
Vaporeon A+ -> A
Lurantis A -> A-
Mabosstiff A- -> B+
Perrserker B+ -> B
Rotom-Fan B- -> C
Vespiquen B- -> C+
Whiscash B- -> C+
Zangoose B- -> C+
Basculin C+ -> C
Flapple C+ -> UR
Squawkabilly C+ -> UR

Rises and Drops with Reasons:

New:
Komala New! -> B First viable Rapid Spin user, and has a amazing ability and movepool, although it's stats leave much to be desired.
Qwilfish-H New! -> B+ Great bulk with Eviolite, and an amazing utility movepool to make use of it.
Sliggoo-H New! -> B+ New Steel-type with great bulk, abilities, and offensive coverage. Despite its coverage it can be quite weak though.
Sneasel-H New! -> A+ Amazing offensive typing and stats, with bulk rivaling that of Toxicroak with an Eviolite. Choice item sets make great use of Sneasel-H's high BP STAB moves and Trailblaze SD sets let Sneasel sweep quite well.
Thwackey New! -> B- Grassy Seed facilitates all kinds of different strategies, and Thwackey's natural bulk and access to Knock Off makes it a solid standalone Pokemon in its own right.

Rises:
Rotom S- -> S Rotom has lost competition in Passimian as the best Choice Scarf user in the tier. Substitute + Nasty Plot sets destroy defensive teams and Rotom's virtually unblockable Volt Switch makes it a fantastic enabler of slower offensive threats like Clawitzer or Ursaring.
Scyther A+ -> S Scyther is the premier offensive pivot of the tier, forcing out switches with its powerful STAB moves and coverage to either Defog, pivot out safely, or get a Swords Dance to sweep. Trailblaze sets have been dominating in NUPL as Scyther very effectively breaks for itself by weakening its few checks with U-turn. Scyther also provides a Ground immunity and Fighting resist on top of the aforementioned Defog, making it extremely difficult to justify NOT putting on any team.
Cacturne A -> A+ Cacturne's offensive prowess paired with a surprisingly solid defensive profile allows it to break giant holes in teams while laying down Spikes for itself and its allies. Spiky Shield allows Cacturne to scout and punish U-turn from Scyther, and Cacturne has a positive matchup against Rotom while greatly benefitting from Passimian and Zoroark's departure.
Dudunsparce A+ -> S- Dudunsparce's raw bulk is unmatched, which makes it an incredibly fearsome setup sweeper on both the physical and special side. It's been dominating in NUPL as well and has very limited counterplay depending on its sets.
Jolteon A -> A+ Jolteon's uncontested speed tier and perfect coverage found through Tera Ice makes it a super scary sweeper late-game and an amazing pivot leading up to that. The Volt immunity and serviceable special bulk lets it pivot into Rotom and Eelektross relatively safely.
Ursaring A -> A+ Ursaring's Guts set is an absolute beast that bypasses all physical walls like Sandaconda and Qwilfish with its raw power alone. It can even use Trailblaze to sweep slower teams lategame, but with all the pivots available to us currently, Ursaring is a fearsome wallbreaker. Eviolite sets have also seen lots of use, even 2 attacks without Bulk Up, just serving as a solid tank, some teams just simply can't safely take out Ursaring without getting lucky with Sleep Talk rolls.
Magneton A- -> A Choice Specs sets are nearly impossible to switch into, Tera Flash Cannon OHKO's Sandaconda WITHOUT Analytic. Most special walls lack recovery like Muk and Eelektross, allowing Magneton to wear them down with Volt Switch and bring in something better suited for the job. Eviolite sets make use of Magneton's solid bulk and Steel typing to be a great offensive pivot.
Oricorio-F A- -> A Oricorio-F, much like it's cousins, has access to broken Quiver Dance and makes excellent use of Tera to turn the tables on traditional checks. Tera Ground to snipe Muk and Grass to beat Vaporeon, Oricorio is a very potent sweeper with lots of set variety.
Bombirdier B+ -> A+ Although it appreciated a positive matchup against Zoroark, Bombirdier's utility is way too good to be anything lower than A+ currently. It was only a matter of time before people figured out how to utilize such a customizable Pokemon and its currently one of the best defensive pivots, with access to the limited Knock Off and being a Stealth Rock setter not named Sandaconda.
Indeedee-F B+ -> A- Indeedee-F is a very powerful special breaker, capable of beating its checks through coverage or Trick, and also boasting Healing Wish as a utility option. Indeedee's speed tier is quite nice for how powerful it is.
Pyroar B+ -> A- Pyroar's speed tier and power makes it an amazing wallbreaker, with access to Taunt and Will-O-Wisp to shut down defensive answers like Umbreon. Pyroar's defensive profile is also quite nice, resisting U-turn and immune to Ghost.
Braviary B- -> B Braviary is a scary setup sweeper with Bulk Up and Tera to provide a free setup opportunity, but physical defensive sets can check Scyther quite nicely and offer Defog and U-turn support as well. Tera Ground has been used to setup on Electric-types like Rotom and Eelektross.
Glaceon B- -> B Access to Freeze Dry and Ground coverage with Tera Blast makes Glaceon near impossible to switch into. Calm Mind and Choice Specs sets are both great wallbreakers.
Sawsbuck B- -> B Sawsbuck's typing gives it an advantage against top tiers like Sandaconda and Rotom, allowing it to set up and take advantage of Serene Grace Headbutt.
Camerupt C+ -> B- Camerupt can stop Rotom's Volt Switch and threaten it back while setting up Stealth Rocks.
Lilligant C -> B+ Lilligant has broken Quiver Dance and great coverage with Pollen Puff and Tera Blast, making it an incredibly threatening setup sweeper. It also has solid utility options in Sleep Powder and Healing Wish.
Raichu C+ -> B- Electric immunity with Nasty Plot and a bevy of coverage options available makes Raichu a solid sweeper. Raichu has commonly made use of Tera Draining Kiss.
Leafeon UR -> B- Trailblaze sets have been seen on HO teams with Swords Dance to complement Leafeon's great offensive stats, utilizing Fire Tera Blast for great coverage.
Swalot UR -> B- Swalot offers very similar traits to Muk, but has Encore and Earthquake at its disposal with better physical bulk as well.
Dugtrio UR -> C Fast and has Stealth Rocks I guess

Muk S- -> A+ Muk's initial rise was largely due to its ability blanket check most of the tiers special set up mons with Haze and a reliable Scarf Rotom switch-in since Sticky Hold prevents Trick. However, as the meta has developed, we've seen more structures built to chip away at Muk making it unable to properly stop setup. Additionally, the meta has started to drift from Scarf Rotom to more utility sets with Will-o-Wisp.
Umbreon A+ -> A While still a great defensive pokemon, its passivity makes it giant momentum suck on your team, making it hard to fit on many teams.
Vaporeon A+ -> A Similar to Umbreon, the passivity of Vaporeon is difficult to avoid. Grass-types have been increasing in importance on teams and this does not bode well for Vaporeon.
Lurantis A -> A- Lurantis faces steep competition as a team's Grass-type from Appletun and Cacturne. The trouble Lurantis finds itself in is that it often requires Tera to threaten common switch-ins. It's also quite linear, and has very little versatility comparatively to Appletun and Cacturne.
Mabosstiff A- -> B+ There are Pokemon that can match Stakeout's power without needing to reach the requirement that Stakeout has; you can simply just not switch against Mabosstiff and it becomes quite bad.
Perrserker B+ -> B Despite the Steel typing, Perrserker's bulk is still terrible.
Rotom-Fan B- -> C Virtually useless ability, and Air Slash is just a bad STAB move. Also large opportunity cost for not just using regular Rotom.
Vespiquen B- -> C+ Incredibly passive and weak to common types in the tier.
Whiscash B- -> C+ Beyond setting hazards, Whiscash's stats and movepool just leave a lot to be desires.
Zangoose B- -> C+ Thoroughly outclassed by Ursaring as a Normal-type breaker, often faints before even getting to take more than one KO.
Basculin C+ -> C Thoroughly outclassed by Bruxish as a Water-type breaker, often faints before even getting to take more than one KO.
Flapple C+ -> UR Thoroughly outclassed by anything as a any-type breaker, often faints before even getting to take more than one KO.
Squawkabilly C+ -> UR Outclassed in every way as a Guts breaker, has to kill itself to do any meaningful damage.

Shoutouts to skierdude101 for writing some of these for me. Here is the link to the slate

 

[Loginator]

Tiering Update! With June's tier shifts, NU has seen a lot of changes; gaining Komala and losing three metagame staples in Lycanroc, Passimian, and Zoroark. Additionally, all NFE's brought to us via Pokemon Home are now available to all lower tiers. The most important ones are Qwilfish-Hisui, Sliggoo-Hisui, Sneasel-Hisui, and Thwackey.

Rises and Drops:

New:
Komala New! -> B
Qwilfish-H New! -> B+
Sliggoo-H New! -> B+
Sneasel-H New! -> A+
Thwackey New! -> B-

Rises:
Rotom S- -> S
Scyther A+ -> S
Cacturne A -> A+
Jolteon A -> A+
Ursaring A -> A+
Magneton A- -> A
Oricorio-F A- -> A
Bombirdier B+ -> A+
Pyroar B+ -> A
Braviary B- -> B
Glaceon B- -> B
Sawsbuck B- -> B
Camerupt C+ -> B-
Lilligant C -> B-
Raichu C+ -> B-
Leafeon UR -> B-
Swalot UR -> B-
Dugtrio UR -> C

Muk S- -> A+
Umbreon A+ -> A
Vaporeon A+ -> A
Lurantis A -> A-
Mabosstiff A- -> B+
Farigiraf B+ -> B
Perrserker B+ -> B
Rotom-Fan B- -> C
Vespiquen B- -> C+
Whiscash B- -> C+
Zangoose B- -> C+
Basculin C+ -> C
Flapple C+ -> UR
Squawkabilly C+ -> UR

Rises and Drops with Reasons:

New:
Komala New! -> B First viable Rapid Spin user, and has a amazing ability and movepool, although it's stats leave much to be desired.
Qwilfish-H New! -> B+ Great bulk with Eviolite, and an amazing utility movepool to make use of it.
Sliggoo-H New! -> B+ New Steel-type with great bulk, abilities, and offensive coverage. Despite its coverage it can be quite weak though.
Sneasel-H New! -> A+ Amazing offensive typing and stats, with bulk rivaling that of Toxicroak with an Eviolite. Choice item sets make great use of Sneasel-H's high BP STAB moves and Trailblaze SD sets let Sneasel sweep quite well.
Thwackey New! -> B- Grassy Seed facilitates all kinds of different strategies, and Thwackey's natural bulk and access to Knock Off makes it a solid standalone Pokemon in its own right.

Rises:
Rotom S- -> S Rotom has lost competition in Passimian as the best Choice Scarf user in the tier. Substitute + Nasty Plot sets destroy defensive teams and Rotom's virtually unblockable Volt Switch makes it a fantastic enabler of slower offensive threats like Clawitzer or Ursaring.
Scyther A+ -> S Scyther is the premier offensive pivot of the tier, forcing out switches with its powerful STAB moves and coverage to either Defog, pivot out safely, or get a Swords Dance to sweep. Trailblaze sets have been dominating in NUPL as Scyther very effectively breaks for itself by weakening its few checks with U-turn. Scyther also provides a Ground immunity and Fighting resist on top of the aforementioned Defog, making it extremely difficult to justify NOT putting on any team.
Cacturne A -> A+ Cacturne's offensive prowess paired with a surprisingly solid defensive profile allows it to break giant holes in teams while laying down Spikes for itself and its allies. Spiky Shield allows Cacturne to scout and punish U-turn from Scyther, and Cacturne has a positive matchup against Rotom while greatly benefitting from Passimian and Zoroark's departure.
Jolteon A -> A+ Jolteon's uncontested speed tier and perfect coverage found through Tera Ice makes it a super scary sweeper late-game and an amazing pivot leading up to that. The Volt immunity and serviceable special bulk lets it pivot into Rotom and Eelektross relatively safely.
Ursaring A -> A+ Ursaring's Guts set is an absolute beast that bypasses all physical walls like Sandaconda and Qwilfish with its raw power alone. It can even use Trailblaze to sweep slower teams lategame, but with all the pivots available to us currently, Ursaring is a fearsome wallbreaker. Eviolite sets have also seen lots of use, even 2 attacks without Bulk Up, just serving as a solid tank, some teams just simply can't safely take out Ursaring without getting lucky with Sleep Talk rolls.
Magneton A- -> A Choice Specs sets are nearly impossible to switch into, Tera Flash Cannon OHKO's Sandaconda WITHOUT Analytic. Most special walls lack recovery like Muk and Eelektross, allowing Magneton to wear them down with Volt Switch and bring in something better suited for the job. Eviolite sets make use of Magneton's solid bulk and Steel typing to be a great offensive pivot.
Oricorio-F A- -> A Oricorio-F, much like it's cousins, has access to broken Quiver Dance and makes excellent use of Tera to turn the tables on traditional checks. Tera Ground to snipe Muk and Grass to beat Vaporeon, Oricorio is a very potent sweeper with lots of set variety.
Bombirdier B+ -> A+ Although it appreciated a positive matchup against Zoroark, Bombirdier's utility is way too good to be anything lower than A+ currently. It was only a matter of time before people figured out how to utilize such a customizable Pokemon and its currently one of the best defensive pivots, with access to the limited Knock Off and being a Stealth Rock setter not named Sandaconda.
Indeedee-F A- -> A Indeedee-F is a very powerful special breaker, capable of beating its checks through coverage or Trick, and also boasting Healing Wish as a utility option. Indeedee's speed tier is quite nice for how powerful it is.
Pyroar B+ -> A- Pyroar's speed tier and power makes it an amazing wallbreaker, with access to Taunt and Will-O-Wisp to shut down defensive answers like Umbreon. Pyroar's defensive profile is also quite nice, resisting U-turn and immune to Ghost.
Braviary B- -> B Braviary is a scary setup sweeper with Bulk Up and Tera to provide a free setup opportunity, but physical defensive sets can check Scyther quite nicely and offer Defog and U-turn support as well. Tera Ground has been used to setup on Electric-types like Rotom and Eelektross.
Glaceon B- -> B Access to Freeze Dry and Ground coverage with Tera Blast makes Glaceon near impossible to switch into. Calm Mind and Choice Specs sets are both great wallbreakers.
Sawsbuck B- -> B Sawsbuck's typing gives it an advantage against top tiers like Sandaconda and Rotom, allowing it to set up and take advantage of Serene Grace Headbutt.
Camerupt C+ -> B- Camerupt can stop Rotom's Volt Switch and threaten it back while setting up Stealth Rocks.
Lilligant C -> B+ Lilligant has broken Quiver Dance and great coverage with Pollen Puff and Tera Blast, making it an incredibly threatening setup sweeper. It also has solid utility options in Sleep Powder and Healing Wish.
Raichu C+ -> B- Electric immunity with Nasty Plot and a bevy of coverage options available makes Raichu a solid sweeper. Raichu has commonly made use of Tera Draining Kiss.
Leafeon UR -> B- Trailblaze sets have been seen on HO teams with Swords Dance to complement Leafeon's great offensive stats, utilizing Fire Tera Blast for great coverage.
Swalot UR -> B- Swalot offers very similar traits to Muk, but has Encore and Earthquake at its disposal with better physical bulk as well.
Dugtrio UR -> C Fast and has Stealth Rocks I guess

Muk S- -> A+ Muk's initial rise was largely due to its ability blanket check most of the tiers special set up mons with Haze and a reliable Scarf Rotom switch-in since Sticky Hold prevents Trick. However, as the meta has developed, we've seen more structures built to chip away at Muk making it unable to properly stop setup. Additionally, the meta has started to drift from Scarf Rotom to more utility sets with Will-o-Wisp.
Umbreon A+ -> A While still a great defensive pokemon, its passivity makes it giant momentum suck on your team, making it hard to fit on many teams.
Vaporeon A+ -> A Similar to Umbreon, the passivity of Vaporeon is difficult to avoid. Grass-types have been increasing in importance on teams and this does not bode well for Vaporeon.
Lurantis A -> A- Lurantis faces steep competition as a team's Grass-type from Appletun and Cacturne. The trouble Lurantis finds itself in is that it often requires Tera to threaten common switch-ins. It's also quite linear, and has very little versatility comparatively to Appletun and Cacturne.
Mabosstiff A- -> B+ There are Pokemon that can match Stakeout's power without needing to reach the requirement that Stakeout has; you can simply just not switch against Mabosstiff and it becomes quite bad.
Perrserker B+ -> B Despite the Steel typing, Perrserker's bulk is still terrible.
Rotom-Fan B- -> C Virtually useless ability, and Air Slash is just a bad STAB move. Also large opportunity cost for not just using regular Rotom.
Vespiquen B- -> C+ Incredibly passive and weak to common types in the tier.
Whiscash B- -> C+ Beyond setting hazards, Whiscash's stats and movepool just leave a lot to be desires.
Zangoose B- -> C+ Thoroughly outclassed by Ursaring as a Normal-type breaker, often faints before even getting to take more than one KO.
Basculin C+ -> C Thoroughly outclassed by Bruxish as a Water-type breaker, often faints before even getting to take more than one KO.
Flapple C+ -> UR Thoroughly outclassed by anything as a any-type breaker, often faints before even getting to take more than one KO.
Squawkabilly C+ -> UR Outclassed in every way as a Guts breaker, has to kill itself to do any meaningful damage.

Shoutouts to skierdude101 for writing some of these for me. Here is the link to the slate

You didn’t mention why Farigiraf dropped.

 

[Stories]

You didn’t mention why Farigiraf dropped.

It wasn't actually supposed to! I just forgot to remove it

 

[Phantomistix]

Not long since the update but I feel like meta has shifted a decent amount and some stuff needs to move around

A+ -> S-/S
I feel like this take was controversial when I made it last time but not so much now. This mon is simply better toxicroak, and is also better than I first anticipated it to be. It is already finding itself on 4 times as many builds as Toxicroak in NUPL (14 to 4 in w5, 16 to 4 in w4), and had a 50% winrate last week, a considerable 12.5% rise from the week before. The mon is usable on almost all teams owing to its great speed tier making it one of the best revenge killers, set variety and also largely due to the meta around it. CB is its best set imo, able to 2HKO standard Sandaconda from just over 80% and trick a choice item to cripple walls. Hneasel is one of the best standalone mons in the tier and maybe even worthy of a S rank.

A+ -> S-
Cacturne doesn't have the insane usage Hneasel has but has an insane winrate in the past few weeks, winning 5/6 games this week. What makes this mon worthy of S- to me is the set ambiguity. You are almost never able to fully guess what 4 moves it's running, even on standard sets. It can also run pure offensive sets with specs and my personal favorite, mixed black glasses. The combination of Dark Pulse + Leaf Storm + Sucker Punch makes it extremely hard to switch into consistently, leaving Umbreon, Chansey and Bombirdier as the only consistent switchins, and 2 of those get lured by SD + Drain Punch.

S -> S-/A+
Mon runs 2 sets, AV and coil. AV is simply put, mid. Extremely easy to wear down and most of the time ends up being a 2/3 time switchin before becoming a sack. Coil is still extremely broken but being slower than every haze user (Mareanie doesn't count) and coil conda gaining traction, especially with tera fairy to avoid phasing make it a very hard set to build with. The usage stats from NUPL only support this with Rotom, eel's main competition getting 18 uses to its 3 in w5, 16 to 5 in w4, 13 to 4 in w3.

 

[Rabia]

Locking this for now due to the large tier shifts from Pokemon Home, direct your attention here for now to talk about how good you think the new Pokemon are!

 

[Rabia]

freed, feel free to talk about post-hoopla ban meta

e: update is in progress btw

 

[PowerOfMemes]

With the Hoopa ban, the metagame can finally breathe better now, but there are definitely mons that rose due to it and that we’ve seen to just be good overall. So, I’ll give my opinion on the new drops.

New -> S-
With this guy almost being banned by one vote, we’ve all realized how deadly this mon can be. Just its Fairy + Dark stabs have no resists in the tier meaning counterplay is forced to be offensive. Defensive counterplay is easily chipped or abused like Muk and Sandaconda while offensive counterplay can just be hit by Sucker Punch. Boots Parting Shot pivot sets easily enables its teammates and without issue breaks with only its stabs. Dual Screens is nice on HO builds easing the need to be able to tank attacks while also crippling opponents with Spirit Break, Parting Shot, Thunder Wave, or even Taunt. But, those are shadowed compared to the more offensive sets. Eject Pack Hammer Arm while seeming like a meme is genuinely amazing, allowing for pivoting on the switch while still chipping opponents like Sandaconda or Lurantis very well. Choice Band sets are dangerous too but the trade off is just bad for Grimmsnarl in this meta because it wallbreaks just as well and can actually react to switches. Finally, the Bulk Up sets: These are just downright broken. Normal checks like Sandaconda or Muk come in and you just Prankster Bulk Up (terastalizing into Steel if needed) then it just uses Chesto Resto to heal to full and destroy teams with Sucker Punch for speed control + Fairy stab. There are also BU + 3 Atk sets which just use Drain Punch + Leftovers to heal up instead. With all of these sets Grimmsnarl has, it’s definitely solidified itself as a top-notch mon in NU.

New -> A+
Defensive sets like Stealth Rock are no issue at all, they even free up team building making you not have to use Sandaconda. But, the better sets are CM. Electric Terrain teams like pairing it with Electric Seed boosting its Defense too. Tera Fairy helps Draining Kiss damage and helps with it being harder to revenge kill because at that point only Scarf Sneasel/Toxicroak can save you with faster super effective attacks. Scarf sets are good speed control and with its coverage it can surprise a lot of mons, and Specs sets can break quite well with Trick crippling would-be counters like Chansey and Umbreon. This mons good bulk, good status moves, decent speed, and coverage with Ice Beam and Dazzling Gleam have solidified this mons strength and utility in NU.

New -> A-/B+
I really want this mon to be broken, but the combination of this dude losing Throat Chop, being hard walled by Sandaconda, getting crippled by hazards, and having 4MSS really holds this dude back a ton. However, with all those disadvantages, Tauros is still a crazy wallbreaker and endgame sweeper that can enable special attackers like the bordeline broken Jolteon to sweep

New -> B+/B
Froslass gives us a new HO lead so we don’t have to use Bombirdier it also beats it one on one. The only issue is Tera Dark is needed if you wanna avoid Prankster Taunts. Offensive Spikes sets are just as good too on balance builds. Helps with enabling powerful wallbreakers and can cripple walls with its Taunt. Its speed tier also helps with outspeeding and finishing off crippled mons. Blocking Rapid Spin is nice too, but like who’s using Komala or Quaxwell? (Komala actually decent but still, though.) Either way, this mon is quite good at its job.

New -> B+/B
Enables Beartic snow teams I guess. But, more importantly, helps out HO with Aurora Veil but Grimmsnarl can do the same in a better way. However, Specs sets are where this thing surprisingly shines. Blizzard + Giga Drain/Leaf Storm + Earth Power/Focus Blast along with Ice Shard for priority makes this thing a demon to handle. The stabs are near unresisted in this tier and the ep/f blast coverage nukes steel teras or Electric-types. At a glance, this mon is ass, but once its out its making progress—just try to find your switch-in. This thing somewhat outclasses Glaceon due to the coverage without wasting your tera, the snow Defense boost, and free Blizzards. It is still beat in SpAtk and slightly in Speed, though.

New -> B
Heavy-Duty Boots Blissey has really kind of soft restarted stall giving them a bulky CM sweeper that’s immune to Spikes crippling. Honestly, it’s just less bulky Chansey with the trade off of hazards ignorance. Could possibly replace Chansey outright; Spikes are a bit of a pain in NU.

New -> B-/C+
Annoying addition to the tier with Prankster Will-O, but it can’t do well on non-stall also Grimmsnarl being as good as it is deletes it due to ignoring all of its Prankster antics and Play Roughing. It definitely can make chip the other physical mons but this tier is loaded with dark-types making this mon not that good.

 

[Stories]

New VR Update! We got a lot of new Pokemon from the Home quick shifts so the metagame has been shaken up quite a bit, even after Frosmoth, Hoopa, and Tornadus have been banned. Finchinator has abstained from voting for this slate. I'm not gonna write all the single subrank changes for all the C rank mons, btw shoutouts to skierdude101 and Danny for keeping me sane while writing these.

Rises and Drops:

New:
Abomasnow New -> A
Articuno New -> A+
Blissey New -> A
Carbink New -> B-
Ditto New -> B-
Dugtrio-Alola New -> C
Froslass New -> A-
Grimmsnarl New -> A+
Mesprit New -> S-
Persian-Alola New -> B
Raichu-Alola New -> B
Sableye New -> B+
Tauros New -> A-
Wyrdeer New -> C+

Rises:
Jolteon A+ -> S-
Oricorio-F A -> A+
Appletun A- -> A
Qwilfish-Hisui B+ -> A
Braviary B -> A-
Glaceon B -> B+
Klawf B- -> B

Drops:
Eelektross S -> A+
Rotom S -> S-
Bruxish A+ -> A
Cacturne A+ -> A
Muk A+ -> A
Ursaring A+ -> A
Drifblim A -> A-
Haunter A -> A-
Pyroar A -> A-
Tauros Combat A -> A-
Umbreon A -> A-
Chansey A- -> C
Indeedee-F B+ -> B
Mabosstiff B+ -> B
Sliggoo-Hisui B+ -> B-
Veluza B+ -> B
Komala B -> C+
Houndoom B- -> C
Leafeon B- -> C+
Raichu B- -> C+
Thwackey B- -> C+
Charizard C+ -> C
Crocalor C+ -> C
Skuntank C+ -> UR
Spiritomb C+ -> C
Vespiquen C+ -> UR
Zangoose C+ -> UR
Basculin C -> UR
Rotom-Fan C -> UR

Rises and Drops with Reasons:

New:
Abomasnow New -> A Abomasnow is a great tank with absurd coverage and natural bulk from the Snow it sets. It's very difficult to switch into, has great set diversity, and can set Aurora Veil for teammates.
Articuno New -> A+ Articuno has a perfect toolkit to be an amazing defensive Pokemon. Fast with reliable recovery, Haze, Pressure, and absurd bulk.
Blissey New -> A Strictly a better Chansey but with an offensive prowess through Calm Mind sets, can carry Heavy-Duty Boots to allow it to pivot in more often and Calm Mind sets can take Chansey checks like Rotom and Haunter and turn the tables on them. Calm Mind sets also beat special boosters like Oricorio and Lilligant with Stored Power.
Carbink New -> B- Incredibly bulky hazard setter that can make use of Iron Defense + Body Press to have damage output.
Ditto New -> B Ditto does what it does in every gen / tier, it is a solid choice for any playstyle and has a clear spot in the meta to deal with the plethora of setup sweepers found in NU.
Dugtrio-Alola New -> C Speedy and somewhat powerful sweeper, makes for a solid dedicated lead but generally outclassed offensively.
Froslass New -> A- Amazing new utility Pokemon, with plenty of status and disruptive options as well as Spikes and very strong STAB combination.
Grimmsnarl New -> A+ Absurd damage output thanks to its high attack, amazing STAB combination, and powerful coverage. Pair this with it's fantastic support options and Prankster ability and Grimmsnarl makes for a deadly breaker and / or setup sweeper.
Mesprit New -> S- Another bundle of utility while also being a absolutely powerhouse with stats and coverage to back this up. Has absurd set variety, ranging from different Choice items to different kinds of setup to pure utility with options like Encore, Thunder Wave, and Healing Wish.
Persian-Alola New -> B Persian-A is a great speedy utility Pokemon, making use of the highly coveted Fur Coat ability to pivot in against physical attackers and Parting Shot around into a more favorable position. Persian-A can also make use of Nasty Plot to complement its great Speed stat and be a solid late-game cleaner.
Raichu-Alola New -> B Slightly stronger than regular Raichu, has a nice secondary STAB, not much to say.
Sableye New -> B+ Sableye is an amazing physical wall, with Knock Off and reliable recovery to make it often outlast the opposition. Sableye also has an incredible defensive typing that allows it to wall the likes of Tauros, Medicham, and Toxicroak.
Tauros New -> A- The same powerhouse its always been in NU, its a bit more shaky with a lot more common checks to it, but with Tera and some smart coverage Tauros can make things work.
Wyrdeer New -> C+ Wyrdeer is not quite sure what it wants to do, but I'm sure that like Bombirdier, once it gets given a certain role it will excel at it. Definitely something that will take time.

Rises:
Jolteon A+ -> S- Jolteon is a complete nuisance to play around as its Volt Switch is nearly impossible to stop, and its natural Electric immunity and solid special bulk make it a decent pivot into the other top tier Electric-types. Although it is often quite reliant on Tera, this isn't a huge setback when it has basically 0 checks.
Oricorio-F A -> A+ Oricorio is a very customizeable Pokemon with varying checks depending on its set, making it very terrifying at team preview. Depending on the Tera type and if it is Taunt or a STAB move can completely change what counts as a check and what counts as complete setup fodder.
Appletun A- -> A It is Appletun's turn as the premier Grass-type of the tier, making great use of Thick Fat and Tera Steel to be an unkillable beast with amazing utility options while packing a surprising punch, even able to use Choice Specs and Eject Pack effectively.
Qwilfish-Hisui B+ -> A We got a plethora of Psychic-types and Qwilfish-H is the perfect check to these, even dealing with the Fairy coverage they run. Qwilfish also checks Grimmsnarl quite nicely.
Braviary B -> A- Braviary was admittedly criminally underrated but has cemented itself as arguably the best Defog user in the tier and a great defensive and offensive Pokemon. Bulk Up sets and physically defensive sets are both great and Defiant brings a lot of utility.
Glaceon B -> B+ Glaceon is strong. Freeze Dry is broken. Wowza!
Klawf B- -> B Klawf is a solid defensive pivot with Regenerator, making it a decent answer to VoltTurn combinations. It has Knock Off to force progress and has seen success on stall teams recently.

Drops:
Eelektross S -> A+ Eelektross is generally outclassed as Coil sweeper now, as it lacks the reliable recovery that Sandaconda and Dudunsparce have. Eelektross is still quite good as as Assault Vest pivot but its prone to being chipped down faster than desired and there are no longer multiple strong Wish passers in the tier.
Rotom S -> S- As the power level of the tier increases, it exposes Rotom's admittedly poor stats, despite its amazing movepool and typing, Rotom is just a bit weaker currently.
Bruxish A+ -> A Bruxish still suffers from a terrible STAB combination despite its amazing on-paper damage. Being weak to VoltTurn and relying on contact moves are two very punishing attributes.
Cacturne A+ -> A More competition from other Dark-types and less Water-types that it beats.
Muk A+ -> A Life is hard in Sandaconda's world, and a lot more physical breakers than special ones now.
Ursaring A+ -> A Ursaring's reliance on Rest for recovery makes it quite exploitable despite it's power, Flame Orb sets are easily worn down.
Drifblim A -> A- Prone to being crippled by the Pokemon it's meant to beat, like Sneasel-H and Toxicroak. Super passive and invites in strong breakers.
Haunter A -> A- Easily reversaled and destroyed by a defensive Tera.
Pyroar A -> A- More consistent checks like Dudunsparce, Appletun, and Blissey exist now.
Tauros Combat A -> A- New Tauros in town, needs the right tera to be effective.
Umbreon A -> A- Too passive and fails to beat the myriad of setup sweepers in the tier currently.
Chansey A- -> C Blissey.
Indeedee-F B+ -> B There's better Psychic-types now.
Mabosstiff B+ -> B There are Pokemon as strong as Stakeout Mabosstiff without relying on Stakeout to be good.
Sliggoo-Hisui B+ -> B- This was honestly just overrated
Veluza B+ -> B People know what this does it won't really be catching anyone offguard anymore.
Komala B -> C+
Houndoom B- -> C
Leafeon B- -> C+
Raichu B- -> C+
Thwackey B- -> C+
Charizard C+ -> C
Crocalor C+ -> C
Skuntank C+ -> UR
Spiritomb C+ -> C
Vespiquen C+ -> UR
Zangoose C+ -> UR
Basculin C -> UR
Rotom-Fan C -> UR

 

[poh]

-> A-

I agree with the reasoning on why it was ranked A initially but i feel it got made out better than it actually is. The set diversity and utility is still nice and all but it's still a slow mon with many common weaknesses, susceptible to all hazards, considerable lower power level and defensive utility (i admit the snow buff can come in handy at times) than similar breakers like Appletun, Magneton and Clawitzer for the specs set or Grimmsnarl and Toxicroak for physical sets. Ofcourse the diversity lets it be more customisable to use but to me it isnt quite on par with what the rest of A has to offer overall.

-> B

This mon has been a disappointment everytime i faced it. This mon is incredibly squishy and for a number of generations can't rly keep up with the powercreep. On top of it struggling vs all the good dark types we have it now has even less durability with the lower recovery pp. Even if Grimmsnarl would leave the tier, i can't see this mon rly thrive. It struggles to check mons its supposed to check like croak and hisuian sneasel (gunk poison cripples this mon like crazy) and it invites all the scary specially offensive mons you rly dont wanna give free turns like a jolteon or a cacturne.


-> A+

Major fan of this mon. Offers so much to a team; spikes are broken and has an excellent mu vs defoggers (maybe braviary less so), spreads status with barb barrage, hazes the broken setupsweepers, absorbs tspikes, checks a plethora of common mons has good bulk with eviolite, by investing a bit in speed it outspeeds a good portion of the slow breakers like claw and ursaring idk i can go on forver lmao. I think the combo of being relatively fat, fast and setting spikes all in 1 mon is amazing in the current meta. Johto Qwilfish sitting in the same rank is kinda odd ngl.

-> B-

This mon didn't get better or worse since the drops. The tier has better options if you wanna use physically bulky mons or specially bulky mons if you wanna run av on it. Knock is cool but that's about it really. Faces even more competition as a rocker with mesprit in the tier.

that's it for now will edit this soon™

 

[Rabia]

I agree with poh in wanting to drop Sableye further. I think it's a perfectly functional option, but Dark-type competition is really huge. Grimmsnarl, Hisuian Qwilfish, and Bombirdier have a stranglehold on this teamslot, and Sableye struggles to find room to compete because it's much more one-dimensional and generally less effective. I think too with Grimmsnarl being ever-present and Tera Dark picking up some usage on physical sweepers, Sableye simply finds fewer matchups to be effective in. I voted it B in the initial slate and stand by that original vote.

-> S
In using, spectating, and playing against Mesprit more, I do believe it's worth S. The set versatility, the power of setup sets and Choice Specs sets, the utility---all of these traits come together SO nicely. Tera Fairy sets are probably the most dominant and flip the script on just about every negative matchup Mesprit has, and it's a great lure for the common Dark-types that play too aggressively into it.

-> S
Jolteon is broken. Tera Blast Ice is literally double the power of Hidden Power Ice and means Pokemon like Sandaconda, Lurantis, and Appletun that would otherwise stand up fine against it simply fail unless the latter can predict the Terastallization properly (a play that isn't even great to make because Jolteon can just pivot with Volt Switch XD!). As the metagame has become much faster, Jolteon's positives have become very clear given its status as the fastest, unboosted viable Pokemon we have. It keeps a plethora of the other fast wallbreakers in check, like Hisuian Sneasel and Tauros, and almost impossible to revenge kill without a PHYSICAL Choice Scarf user due to Calm MInd boosts.

---

I believe Sandaconda, Mesprit, Jolteon, and Scyther should comprise our S rank. I am unsure how I'd handle A+, though, because I do believe Dudunsparce (and Rotom to a lesser extent) to still be a bit above the rest of A+. Maybe keeping S- would be fine still, or maybe dropping Rotom and rising Dudunsparce would be fine. Just some food for thought.

 

[Elias PSY]

-> Keep B+

With Grimmsnarl departure,Sableye is on the right spot.Phys def is a bait imo,it already check all physical attackers by virtue of his typing and priority will-o-wisp.Sp.def is a nice midground against common setup sweepers like jolteon,dudunsparce and mesprit and can bombirdier and hisuian qwilfish since they don't want lose boots and eviolite respectively.It's easy to prep against sableye with tera dark stuff but grimm leaving make it a bit better overall.

-> B

There are just better fighting types.Sneasel is faster,Toxicroak provides utility in dry skin,Tauros is bulkier.The addition of Sableye made it more awkward to justify since he want tera blast fairy it to break but others fighters could also run tera dark for it without relying on tera blast and dropping coverage move.

-> A-

Hisuian qwilfish is bulkier and get a better typing in current meta.Qwilfish is a water resist who can't relably check waters and there are plenty of fighting resists to use over it.It has some arguments like thunder wave,better match-up against sandaconda and stab priority without relying on tera but it's harder to justify it rn.

 

[Aawin]

-> S

Jolteon, in my opinion, is the best Pokemon in the tier outside of Sandaconda. Jolteon's blazing fast 130 base speed is the fastest unboosted mon by a mile. We have a few 115s, but viable Pokemon that fall between there are null, meaning you are forced to rely upon a scarfer to properly revenge kill outside of priority. Throughout NUPL, I constantly found myself stuck in the builder due to the presence of Jolteon and its ability to force progress in every single matchup. Jolteon requires little brainpower to use effectively, and saw constant usage during NUPL for the amount of positives it brought to a team. This is coupled with three viable and dangerous Tera types in Ice, Ghost, and Normal to muscle through would-be checks. Grasses are targeted by Tera Ice, Tera Ghost allows for Rotom coverage from a stronger user while giving it a neat defensive profile, and Normal can utilize Hyper Voice over Tera Blast for a strong move versus Sandaconda, as well as stonewalling Rotom. This Pokemon not only deserves S-Rank, but I believe it's the most suspect worthy Pokemon in the tier right now.

-> Drop to B

On paper, it feels that Sableye would solve the metagame and be a lot more consistent than it is in the current meta. The banning of Grimmsnarl did help with its issue of competition as a Prankster Dark-type, it still faces major competition from the likes of Bombirdier and H-Qwilfish, which provide stronger Knock Offs and Spikes, respectively. Additionally, Sableye's stats are middling and provides a much weaker defensive profile in that regard (it's much squishier). Additionally, as Rabia pointed out, MANY adaptations to the presence of Sableye have rose in popularity in the metagame. Tera Dark on pretty much every physical sweeper or cleaner (SD Scyther, Tauros, H-Sneasel, Toxicroak, and even Pokemon like SD Bruxish and Veluza) have become staples to prevent priority Wisp, block Encore, and take reduced damage from Knock Off. In the event where this is a Tera-free meta, I believe Sableye has a much better time. This doesn't exist, so as a result, it drops.

-> I honestly couldn't care less, this Pokemon is boring

Based on my own personal tinkering with this guy, frankly I've been underwhelmed consistently. With the new Ice-types that dropped in Abomasnow, Articuno, and Froslass, I think that Klawf has a pretty nice niche as a sort of anti-lead versus these Pokemon and specific playstyles. It has nice utility in Regenerator + Knock Off, with Rock Blast to fade sashes on Froslass in particular. I think in a tier where hazards are a major shaper in the outcome of a battle, Knock Off on a Pokemon like this is extremely appreciated. Additionally, I've messed with Anger Shell leads to replace the loss of Lycanroc, and its not too horrible! Anger Shell allows you to get a fast Endeavor off granted you're knocked down to sash or allows you to also dish out a relatively strong STAB attack. A pretty vanilla Pokemon that I don't care where it ends up, but I think it certainly has some sort of niche right now.

I agree with Poh's nom of H-Qwilfish to a higher tier, as its one of the best glue Pokemon in the tier currently while providing a unique arsenal of tools such as Spikes, spreading poison with Toxic / Toxic Spikes / Barb Barrage, offensive sets with SD + Tera of choice, as well as Taunt and Haze for setup sweepers. A pretty complete Pokemon with the added benefit of Eviolite. I don't necessarily think it should be ranked the same as its counterpart.

Also I agree with Rabia that S-Rank should be comprised of Sandaconda/Jolteon/Mesprit/Scyther- all four are extremely low drawback and define the current metagame to a high degree, as demonstrated throughout NUPL and extending further back than that.

 

[Punchshroom]

These are just my preliminary thoughts on the new drops so far:

S- or A+

This monster is immediately meta-defining; teams that are more reliant on mons like Jolteon, Hisuian Sneasel (especially Scarf), and Scarf Rotom will find themselves especially more susceptible to getting their clocks cleaned by SD Tera Aqua Jet Samurott, to say nothing of SD Samurott's impressive wallbreaking capability. Specially offensive Samurott is also a terrifying holepuncher with moves like Knock Off and Encore which can throw most defensive responses off their game. Samurott's attacking prowess and movepool are extremely customisable, with its speed tier being the primary (only) factor holding it back, but Samurott is more than capable of holding its own against faster teams; if anything, Samurott punishes teams that go fast without paying attention to their health or bulk, lest they get swept lategame.

A or A-

This mon has many of the same qualities that make Articuno so good; it's a fast Freeze-Dry spammer with the utility of Haze and the longevity to maintain the threat, but it spins in exchange for being able to pivot. Cryogonal can manhandle most of the tier's more popular spinblockers, namely Rotom, Drifblim, and Haunter (you get hardwalled by SpDef Sableye though sadly), as well as being one of the tier's best Ice resists. However, Cryogonal's more expoitable physical fraility and shallower movepool (especially the lack of pivoting) make it a lot easier to take advantage of than Articuno, unless you're willing to fully commit Tera Blast to alleviate this issue. This passivity becomes more apparent if you wish to invest into HP instead of SpA to mediate its bulk. You might even have to consider teching in 'Flash Cannon' on this just to make it better at fending off the Ice-types that it's supposed to stop from running you over. Speaking of..

A

This mon does its jobs pretty well; just spin in Sandaconda's/Bombirdier's face, use your gigantic physical bulk and recovery to try and stop physical endgame wincons (even if shakily given its weaknesses), and actually pose a sizable presence with Ice Spinner + Body Press/Earthquake coverage (Body Press is better for general use, but Earthquake lets you include Qwilfish among the list of spin targets). Its flaws are glaring for sure, but fortunately, there's not much in the tier that scares Avalugg out without being at the very least concerned about one of Avalugg's attacks, much less have the longevity to keep up the pressure. Not to mention that this has the option to be a pretty mean wincon with SpDef investment + Iron Defense Body Press + the right Tera, if you wanted to build around that since it more or less demands your Tera. It's not in a bad spot in this meta.

B

Between Swords Dance Samurott and Choice Scarf / Swords Dance Bruxish, there's honestly not much that Floatzel can cover that those two cannot. Even for its great Speed tier, Hisuian Sneasel offers another alternative that has soooo much more advantages, like resisting Stealth Rock, being Toxic (Spikes) immune, being Intimidate-immune, has Switcheroo to ditch its Choice-item, has Swords Dance instead of Floatzel's Bulk Up, Eviolite access, dual STABs, superior neutral coverage, etc. etc. Floatzel's only real niche in this meta at this point is either reliant on Rain Dance strats, or to help facilitate the superior Water-types in a Water spam core where it can help to cover gaps in speed that the Swords Dance Water-types do not, but even in this role, Floatzel is not exactly adept at baiting out the tier's better Water resists without committing its Tera. Floatzel doesn't really perform that great as a standalone mon atm, especially when compared to its competition.

D

Spinning & walling are strictly done better by Avalugg due to having less problematic weaknesses. Avalugg-Hisui can do ok at punishing Freeze-Dry reliant mons while posing a threat with its wide coverage, but H-Avalugg ONLY punishes Ice attacks well cos good luck switching it into anything else. Even if you wanted that, the likes of Eviolite Magneton and even Crabominable are so much better in that regard as well; Crabominable especially puts Avalugg-Hisui to shame as an Ice-type holepuncher. There just isn't a reason to use this thing when much better options exist for the job.

 

[Rabia]

-> A+
I could see this guy going up to the S ranks but view it a little more lowly still. Its Speed is a notable detriment to non-Swords Dance sets, and Toxicroak eats your lunch unless you run Drill Run (not a move seen commonly). Nevertheless, I've had great success with it as a Swords Dance sweeper, and the mixed Life Orb set really doesn't have a ton of defensive counterplay bar switching around its moves with accurate predicting. Great addition to the tier!

-> A+
Tera Steel means you wall Sandaconda and spin versus it easily. You also have a pretty good Qwilfish and Cacturne matchup; just be careful that the latter doesn't have Drain Punch. The biggest sell, though, is Haze; this Pokemon is basically an Articuno sidegrade that trades pivoting for Rapid Spin, and Haze lets you do the same shutting down of bulky setup sweepers like Calm Mind Mesprit and Dudunsparce. Quite consistent, although picking between Haze and Flash Cannon sometimes sucks.

-> A-
A lot of our wallbreakers are specially offensive, and most of the physical ones either a) run U-turn or b) are Fighting-types. This sort of limits Avalugg's overall defensive prowess, although Terastallization does help it a lot here. Good matchups against Sandaconda, both Qwilfish formes, and Blissey mean spinning is pretty fair game, and if you run offensive sets, you aren't very easy to spinblock.

-> A-
Rain is a pretty strong archetype currently, and Floatzel is morbidly a beast on such teams. Wave Crash under rain picks whenever Floatzel switches in---even Intimidate Qwilfish is 2HKOed if Floatzel uses Tera Water. It's definitely limited to those teams, at least as far as peak performance goes, but it's not enough of a limiting factor to keep it out of the A ranks I believe.

-> C
ok so I absolutely hate this Pokemon and think its just not worth using almost ever... but its a bit stronger and faster than the other one so weird offensive sets have funny niches like outrunning Sandaconda and OHKOing it with Ice Fang. it's not a strong niche but ig enough of one to keep it ranked above D

 

[lolbro]

I agree with the rankings Mr. TL and Punch have said with the exception of one

-> C+/B-
No, it's not in the realm of it's counterpart but it is an offensive spinner that beats every rocker and every spinblocker with ease. And then once tera'd - something you practically HAVE to do with either of them for long-term contributions - you have a stronger, faster (lol), Avalugg with a minimally worse Sp.defense stat. Strong Jaw+Crunch/Ifang+127 Base attack means it if very threatening offensively even with minimal investment; I personally use 40+ to hit a breakpoint. I would also argue that it is at least as effective hole-puncher than something like Crabominable. They are both slow ice types, and while Crabominable is slightly faster and stronger than a non-252+ HAvalugg, it's typing leaves it easier to take advantage of defensively, and lack of general bulk/resists means it ends up being revenged by more pokemon.

Still shoulda been a ground type.

 

[TheTraininator]

Hey guys
Fun fact

Did you know that Hisuian Avalugg learns Stealth Rock? And Unovan Avalugg does not?

Figured I’d bring that up for no particular reason.

 

[PowerOfMemes]

New to A+
This mon is amazing at breaking with strong attacks, coverage, and Knock Off. With the Jolteon and Zoroark ban it has one less thing to worry about and compete with, respectively. It destroys all walls with a mixed set. Hydro Pump destroys Avalugg and Sandaconda, Sacred Sword 2HKOes Blissey with Life Orb if you EV, and Knock Off whittles down checks like Qwilfish. Only issue is longevity on the Life Orb set. Swords Dance is also quite a dangerous set thanks to Aqua Jet for priority, and then either Knock Off to beat checks down overtime or X-Scissor/Megahorn to beat Cacturne and grasses in general. Overall crazy mon specs/band sets r smth that ive played with but rly let me down-dont bother.

New to A+/A
Really good spinner that easily tank physical attacks even super-effective ones with only hp investment-obviously Sturdy is nice. Tera Ghost on this also helps wall fights and opposing avalugg. Also no ghosts want to take your stab repeatedly, so spin is happening. IronPress sets are a bit disappointing as they are walled by Ghosts if u run Rapid Spin (u shuld-dont run crunch ironpress plz).

New to A+
Avalugg but spdef. Haze helps with setups like mesprit or dudun. Tera Steel also hella walls mesprit. With speed for oricorio not needed anymore this will just be getting fatter and fatter. Flash Cannon is an idea for opposing ices but haze is just better overall. This is basically cuno if it had defog but without u-turn. Ground immunity also help against conda a ton, walling with tera steel.

New to C/D
Ass. just ass. Checks nothing. Stealth Rock is something, Choice Band is also an idea—but not good enough.

 

[Punchshroom]

-> C
ok so I absolutely hate this Pokemon and think its just not worth using almost ever... but its a bit stronger and faster than the other one so weird offensive sets have funny niches like outrunning Sandaconda and OHKOing it with Ice Fang. it's not a strong niche but ig enough of one to keep it ranked above D

Wait, how exactly does Hisuian Avalugg even achieve this? H-Avalugg is so slow that you need Jolly to outrun even 0 Spe Sanda, but then you won't come anywhere close to OHKOing; even Adamant Choice Band doesn't reliably OHKO to begin with.

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Avalugg-Hisui Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sandaconda: 318-374 (91.3 - 107.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Avalugg-Hisui Mountain Gale vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sandaconda: 326-386 (93.6 - 110.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

This is not even getting into how "Choice Band H-Avalugg" has a devil of a time spinning which it isn't gonna be good at without Boots, so you're almost purely using it as a wallbreaker, except Crabominable is far, far better at this role due to, hmm let's see:
- Stronger dual STABs
- More power
- Not weak to Stealth Rock
- Actually more relevant speed (Adamant max Spe outruns Sanda, while Jolly outruns Drifblim)
- Better offensive abilities (Iron Fist is obvious, but even Hyper Cutter can be relevant vs Qwilfish's Intimidate)
- Slightly better defensive profile vs bulky mons (H-Avalugg's immense bulk is wasted by the fact that it takes ~equal damage from Sanda EQ and Qwilfish Liquidation as Crabominable anyway, and it has to worry about things like Appletun Apple Acid and Lurantis Leaf Storm when trying to switch into those)

I don't understand why people would entertain the idea of Rapid Spin on Choice Band H-Avalugg? H-Avalugg already has a hard enough time switching in safely, but you're going to just force yourself out again the moment you click Spin and utterly abandon your worth as an immediate holepuncher? This ain't like "CB Kartana" where it can just choose 3 attacks and slap Defog on there for 'emergency hazard clearing'; H-Avalugg is way too slow and vulnerable to attempt this.

-> C+/B-
No, it's not in the realm of it's counterpart but it is an offensive spinner that beats every rocker and every spinblocker with ease. And then once tera'd - something you practically HAVE to do with either of them for long-term contributions - you have a stronger, faster (lol), Avalugg with a minimally worse Sp.defense stat. Strong Jaw+Crunch/Ifang+127 Base attack means it if very threatening offensively even with minimal investment; I personally use 40+ to hit a breakpoint. I would also argue that it is at least as effective hole-puncher than something like Crabominable. They are both slow ice types, and while Crabominable is slightly faster and stronger than a non-252+ HAvalugg, it's typing leaves it easier to take advantage of defensively, and lack of general bulk/resists means it ends up being revenged by more pokemon.

Still shoulda been a ground type.

If you simply wanted to pose an offensive presence while still maintaining the capacity to Spin, regular Avalugg already achieves this since Body Press + Ice Spinner is lowkey tough for most offense to switch into anyway, while H-Avalugg tries to get fancy with Ice + Dark + Rock/Ground(?) coverage or w/e to try and cover neutral. Avalugg can also fend off most spinblockers decently enough with the exception of physically defensive Sableye, which H-Avalugg also fails to beat. This mon just falls into this awkward segway where it's worse than Avalugg/Cryogonal when it tries to spin and worse than Crabominable when it tries to break, and H-Avalugg simply isn't good enough to combine these two traits into a consistent product because trying to lean into one aspect means it substantially sacrifices the other.

 

[Rabia]

yes I should've expanded and said "with a Spike" that's my bad, but it's the singular set I've used on H-Avalugg or seen used that did.... anything of note. works as a decent enough lure because people are too willing to stay in and try to OHKO you with physical moves (they never do) so it's not The Worst thing ever. frankly I don't care whether this thing is C or D but the niche exists and is probably enough to justify a rank