Metagame Sun and Moon LC Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
I feel like Litten is much more attack oriented, especially if you see its evolutions
It's evolutions may be that way, but that doesn't guarantee that Litten will be offensively oriented. Regardless, given that we've seen two starters (Torchic and Snivy) being successful in gen 6, I highly doubt we'll see much from the starters this gen. The new pokemon this gen that I'd expect to see in the spotlight would be Alolan Meowth, Alolan Diglett, Mudbray, whatever the Solgaleo/Lunala prevo is, Pikipek, and maybe Salandit, Rockruff if it has Accelerock, and Sandygast.
 
since diglett is such a threat already what do you guys expect of alolan diglett? Having two digletts on your team is incredibly overpowered, and it may cause one of the digletts to be banned, even if they are the same stat-wise, just to prevent someone from having two on their team.
 
It's evolutions may be that way, but that doesn't guarantee that Litten will be offensively oriented. Regardless, given that we've seen two starters (Torchic and Snivy) being successful in gen 6, I highly doubt we'll see much from the starters this gen. The new pokemon this gen that I'd expect to see in the spotlight would be Alolan Meowth, Alolan Diglett, Mudbray, whatever the Solgaleo/Lunala prevo is, Pikipek, and maybe Salandit, Rockruff if it has Accelerock, and Sandygast.
have there been pokemon in the past that switch roles throughout their evolution line?
 
At this point it's not confirmed that Alolan Diglett will be as amazing as Kantonian Diglett, so I don't think it's worth worrying too hard about. It seems likely that it will lose Arena Trap, or at least have a somewhat funky stat spread since I don't think GF want Alolan forms to play just like their Kanto counterparts.
 
Kyergr, we don't have the games in hand so we can't be sure of how the mechanics regarding species clause and alolan forms will work, but we can probably think of something like alolan diglett vs. normal diglett as rotom-wash vs. rotom-heat, i.e. distinct forms of the same species. For certain, until we have the ability to transfer from XY/ORAS to SuMo, we will only have access to the alolan forms.
 

Xayah

San Bwanna
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Kyergr, we don't have the games in hand so we can't be sure of how the mechanics regarding species clause and alolan forms will work, but we can probably think of something like alolan diglett vs. normal diglett as rotom-wash vs. rotom-heat, i.e. distinct forms of the same species. For certain, until we have the ability to transfer from XY/ORAS to SuMo, we will only have access to the alolan forms.
We will have the ability to transfer from XY/ORAS to SuMo immediately as far as I know. Pokémon Bank has been confirmed to be used for that purpose.
 

Rowan

The professor?
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
it's not even confirmed LC.

unaware is a good ability, but bad defensive typing to take advantage of it anyway. I guess it would fuck over baton pass
 
If it has good defences then I say it has potential. LC doesn't have a single viable Unaware wall, and don't even mention Wooper. The only problem is, LC is very Knock Off heavy, so this thing will constantly be fearing losing its Eviolite or just dropping dead due to the fact that almost every team has a Knock Off user.
 

Lou

going solo
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I think Mudbray will have a really good niche in this tier due to it ability.

Cutiefly will be a cute shit.

Rowlet if its fast could be regular.

Popplio is the best yaaay
 
Alolan Diglett confirmed to be Ground/Steel by datamine. Has mediocre abilities, but keeps its Speed tier. Seems inferior to Kanto Diglett, what are your thoughts?

Alolan Sandshrew HA confirmed to be Slush Rush.

Alolan Meowth confirmed to be super god damn fast.

Source video:Here
 
Last edited:
Well, those stats are amazing for a LC, so I should say it can be instaban. (Type: Null)

Alola Rattata is going to be strong as hell, but just only for deal a few hits and then, fall. it has a good Speed base and monstruous Attack thanks to Hustle, but it's case of luck, due to the accuracy getting lowered. Also, it's defenses make it a frail mon.

Alola Sandshrew, SLUSH RUSH, my dream became true. It can be a good way to try an Ice Spam this gen, if Alola Pix has Snow Warning, as I said months ago. Reaching 14 Speed and under hail 28 can make it a great sweeper, thanks to its 75 Base Attack, dealing great damage to Grass-types like Foongus, which it could stop him before becoming Alolan, and Fairy-types such as Spritzee and Snubbull. Its 90 Defense base makes it too hard to beat for the physical side. With Swords Dance and under hail, stopping it with Timmy could be the only way to not be swept by this beast.

Alola Vulpix, ok, it became true. It has Snow Warning, so it's a great partner for Alola Sandshrew, non-failing Blizzards, and giving 2x Boost of Slush Rush to Sandshrew. It could be cool if it got Moonblast, being a good way to deal good damage Dark-types as Scraggy. Also, carrying the Hail-boosting rock helps to keep the hail active.

Alola Meowth, what to say about him, it's typing and Technician makes attacks like Bite, KOff and Feint Attack more stronger than before. It must suck for Meowth to lose power on Fake Out, but it can be a good partner for a Dark Spam with Pawn, for example. But the thing of having more SpA can be useful for be a better Nasty Plot user, and 20 Spe makes it a beast.

Alola Geodude, so, new -ite ability, making Normal-type attacks to Electric-type attacks. It gets 4x weakness from Ground, so the way it was getting used won't change too much, in my opinion.

Alola Grimer, I so knew it that it could get Pursuit. Now it's going to be better Pursuit trapper than Stunky, it has good stats, and that combined with Poison Touch, it can be a good way to cripple a lot of mons. Power of Alchemy sound pretty cool in doubles, getting the ability of a fell partner.

Alola Diglett, welp, rest in peace, Arena Trap. But now, Tangling Hair is a ability which can low the foe's speed having contact with it, so it can make physical scarf users slower (sounds like Gooey). Also, its Steel typing allows it to switch into Fairy mons like Snubbull and Spritzee, without getting too much damage from thei Fairy STABs, and deal good damage with its Steel options, but it makes Rock Slide be more forgotten.
 
Last edited:
Pikipek @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
IVs: 29 HP
- Bullet Seed
- Brick Break
- Brave Bird
- Flame Charge

Mudbray @ Berry Juice
Ability: Stamina
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 156 SpD
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rest

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Pikipek @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
IVs: 29 HP
- Bullet Seed
- Brick Break
- Brave Bird
- Flame Charge

Thoughts?
As Vanillish Wafer said, it can compete with Doduo in many teams. Also, a scarf set can be pretty nice to deal vs scarf users like Chinchou, and its movepool can hit a plethora of Pokémon, making it a good check for them, but it defense make it be frail, as we can see, so it must be aware of strong priority attacks like Aqua Jet Corphish.

[EDIT]

Mudbray looks like it has a good niche being a good sponge for physical attacks, and that set can allow to check in order to a top threat that we know, Shellder. Having multi-hit attacks, it can get 3,5x Def in only one turn, becoming too hard to weak by the physical side, and not worrying about dying thanks to BJ, and if it got his BJ knocked, it can go for Rest to full restore its health.
 
Last edited:
I'll edit this post later with thoughts on more new Pokemon, but so far I'm really liking what sun/moon has to offer. Moreanie looks like it might be an interesting pivot, and with Moreanie and Salandit, poison spam might be a viable team archetype (looking at you Jac). Morelull looks intersting, with Spore, Strength Sap on top of handling Fighting and Water types. Salandit looks promising, and Stufful might become another fighting-type staple if move tutors add Drain Punch or Knock Off to its movepool. Sandygast looks interesting, but the lack of Water immunity from Water Compaction makes it questionable, and its typing doesn't seem that great defensively.

Even though Slush Rush exists now and Alolan Vulpix gets Snow Warning, I still don't see Hail having quite enough good options to become a dominant force. Cubchoo might be worth trying out, but given what is currently listed for Alolan Sandshrew's movepool, the lack of a strong physical ice-type attack concerns me (it has been noted that some of the alolan movepools are incorrect however).
 

Brambane

protect the wetlands
is a Contributor Alumnus
My initial thoughts and list of all new LC Viable Pokemon, contains ~spoilers~
Alolan Rattata
Alolan Sandshrew
Alolan Vulpix
Alolan Diglett
Alolan Meowth
Alolan Geodude
Alolan Grimer
Rowlet
Litten
Popplio
Pikipek
Yungoos
Grubbin
Crabrawler
Cutiefly
Rockruff
Mareanie
Mudbray
Dewpider
Fomantis
Morelull
Salandit
Stufful
Bounsweet
Wimpod
Sandygast
Type: Null
Jangmo-o
"Cosmog"

https://paste.ee/r/zYMUr

ctrl f is your friend, note Alolan Rattata is written as Rattata-1, etc

Alolan Rattata
Thick Fat is pretty useless on a Pokemon with Rattata's defenses, so Hustle is what we got. I am of the opinion Hustle is a terrible ability, this Pokemon would be way better if it still had Guts.

Alolan Sandshrew
Ice/Steel seems like a bad typing, but Slush Rush is a very good ability. Ice is a solid offensive type but when your best physical Ice move is Ice Ball there is a problem. That is probably the biggest issue here actually. The 4x weaknesses do it no favors, but if it got Icicle Crash it would be way better.
UPDATE: It does get Icicle Crash, so now this Pokemon has gone from unusable to a significant threat, watching out for this mon lategame.

Alolan Vulpix
Ice Vulpix is not nearly as strong as its Fire counterpart. STAB 100% accuracy Blizzard is nice but the Sun-boosted Fire attacks is kind of what gave Vulpix it's power. It is a shame it doesn't get Energy Ball and Will-O-Wisp anymore. It does learn Heat Wave though, which is kind of fun. It will be a decent Ice-type, but lacking the power to really shine.
UPDATE: No Fire moves, but Freeze Dry helps a lot more than they would.

Alolan Diglett
Still takes hits like tissue paper, all the Steel-typing does is make Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave hurt more. A Gooey clone on one of the fastest and frailest Pokemon in the tier? Okay.

Alolan Meowth
Now we're talking. Regular Meowth was already an okay Pokemon, but I think Dark-type Meowth is a direct improvement. The loss of power of Fake Out is noticable, but STAB Bite and Thief boosted by Technician! Aerial Ace will help with Fighting-types too. A good Dark-type I am excited to try out.
UPDATE: Parting Shot will be absolutely amazing on this, enough to make this Pokemon top tier imo

Alolan Geodude
Taking neutral damage from Steel-type moves and being weak to Ground and Grass kind of hurts its ability to trap most of the common Steel-types. However, the Hidden Ability is pretty ridiculous. Sure, it can't hit Ground-types at all, but 80 base Attack Galvanized Return? Double-Edge? Explosion? The typing itself has defensive issues and that Speed is way too low, but Alolan Geodude will be fun at least.

Alolan Grimer
LC Doubles probably isn't going to take off, so the Hidden Ability isn't worth talking about. STAB Knock Off is good, Poison Touch makes it better. Poison/Dark is a pretty solid typing and Grimer has good stats. I can see this Pokemon getting some use for its defensive typing. Its lack of recovery outside of Rest really hurts.

Rowlet
An underwhelming Pokemon with an underwhelming movepool and underwhelming stats. It might be a decent Defogger, but outside of that all its good for is smacking Rock-types and Chinchou on a BirdSpam team. And even then I don't see it excelling. I wish it got something to make it a little more impactful.

Litten
Litten is definitely the strongest of the new starters and the only one with any substantial viability. Intimidate, Will-O-Wisp and U-turn are very nice, despite its terrible defenses. It has good Speed and offensive stats, backed by Swords Dance AND Nasty Plot, but these seem like red herrings. We will probably see a little bit of Litten for its utility potential and not as a sweeper.

Popplio
Popplio's strength is going to be largely dependant on how its Hidden Ability works. Until then, it is just another pure Water-type with a good Special Attack and not much else, and will likely end up in the same pond alongside Psyduck, Oshawott and others.

Pikipek
Pikipek will fit well on BirdSpam teams, although nerfs to Fletchling are not doing favors for BirdSpam, for its ability to Bullet Seed and Brick Break down many Pokemon that give that archetype trouble. Those defenses are very unforgiving though and it will need to be careful switching in. Pikipek definitely has potential and I can see it doing well.

Yungoos
Exclusively a Choice Scarf user, but a very scary one. It has a good Attack backed by three amazing abilities. It also has U-turn, which is the icing on the cake. This Pokemon is a glass cannon and will require both players to play very carefully around it.

Grubbin
Know how much use Karrablast gets? This Pokemon is basically a worse Karrablast. That should give you a good idea of what to expect.

Crabrawler
A pretty cool Fighting-type that will unfortunately be overshadowed by other Fighting-types. Crabrawler is a solid Pokemon, just not enough compared to the likes of Mienfoo, Timburr, Croagunk, Pancham and Scraggy. Would be much more comparable if it got Knock Off and Drain Punch.

Cutiefly
Hitting 19 Speed is amazing by itself, but the addition of Quiver Dance and Baton Pass kicks ass. Sadly its stats aside from Speed are pretty mediocre, but it could still be a pretty threatening sweeper with Quiver Dance and Moonblast. Shield Dust is also an underappreciated ability. It will be a good Fairy-type for more offense-oriented teams.

Rockruff
A below-average Rock-type. It reminds me of all the bad things about Cranidos without any of the good.

Mareanie
It has good defenses, a good typing and Regenerator. However, its support options seem pretty limited, and its power is lacking. It will likely count on using the likes of Scald and Sludge Bomb to 30% its way to victory, do some Recovering as they suffer and Regenerate a ton of health as it switches around the enemy team. Annoying, but not overwhelmingly threatening.

Mudbray
A solid Choice Scarf user, it has high Attack, good defenses and a solid ability. Probably overshadowed by Drilbur, but a strong Pokemon by itself. Could also use Berry Juice to pretty good effect, especially alongside Stamina.

Dewpider
Changes to Leech Life help, but not by much. Water/Bug is a decent offensive typing, but it is simply much too slow and too weak for an offensive set. Defensively, it has good Special Defense but its other stats are nothing to write home about. Probably won't see much use in the long run.

Fomantis
This Pokemon is a bad Snivy.

Morelull
A pretty sweet Pokemon to be honest. Its abilities are pretty useless, but Spore is good and Strength Sap sounds ridiculous. Leech Seed is a nice option as well, and it has a decent Special Attack for Giga Drain and Moonblast. Its HP is a little low, but its Defense is okay and its Special Defense is pretty nice. This Pokemon will probably see use and might even give our current resident mushroom a run for its money.

Salandit
I don't know why they would give Corrosion to such an offensive Pokemon, but whatever. Nasty Plot boosted Sludge Bombs and Fire Blasts will hurt and it has pretty good Speed too. Salandit will definitely see some use and be a solid sweeper. A no-frills kind of Pokemon, despite the unique ability.

Stufful
I honestly have no idea about this thing. Stufful has an awesome ability and good stats, but LC has a lot of good Fighting-types. Will Fluffy be enough to carve out its place among the elite Fighting-types, or will it be overshadowed by old threats? I honestly don't know.

Bounsweet
It looks like Cherubi and, judging by those stats, moves and abilities, will likely be just as useful.

Wimpod
Seeing Wimpod is like when your professor says that the class average for an exam was a B and you get yours back and you got a D+.

Sandygast
Honestly this might be the Pokemon I am the most excited about. Ground/Ghost is a really cool typing and this Pokemon has an amazing ability, access to recovery in the form of Shore Up, good Special Attack and a very interesting movepool. Not getting Will-O-Wisp breaks my heart, but I think this Pokemon definitely has potential.

Type: Null
Incredible stats, this Pokemon will be top tier, if not incredibly broken.

Jangmo-o
Kind of looks like a weaker Axew with an awesome ability in the form of Bulletproof. 55 base Attack seems a little low for a Dragon Dance sweeper, and it can't hit Fairy-types. A cool concept held back by its BST and movepool gaps.

"Cosmog"
Shut down by Taunt, 0/10
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top