Resource SS ZU Viability Rankings v2 - Update @236

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

amazing art by Kolohe​

Welcome to the SS ZU Viability Rankings. In this thread, Pokemon are ranked based on their ability to function within the ZU Metagame. This includes many factors, such as versatility, effectiveness, ability to handle metagame trends, size of niche, and several others. Since these are likely to be highly contested, there are a few rules to abide by:

• Post reasoning. Posts like ‘Perrserker should go to B because it has Tough Claws’ will be deleted and possibly infracted. You are expected to give sound logic for the nominations you make. Any one-liners will be deleted and possibly infracted.
• Be civil. It doesn’t matter how heavily you disagree with a post, at the end of the day it’s an opinion posted by another person so throwing insults at them isn’t gonna be okay.
• No discussion of future bans, suspects, or metagames. We aren’t gonna raise something because may drop or a change may happen in a future metagame, no matter how likely it is.
• If you want to nominate a currently unranked Pokemon to be ranked, replays are a requirement. Preferably, these are replays against high level players so that you really show us that this Pokemon can put in work.
• At the same time, do not base your entire argument around replays and usage statistics. It’s important to show why this Pokemon performs viability, not just that it is used.

Pokemon within sub-ranks are ordered alphabetically. There will be no D rank unless council agrees to have one in the future.

VR Council

Consists of the current ZU council + established contributors to the ZU metagame and VR.
Corthius
Drud
OranBerryBlissey10
S1nn0hC0nfirm3d
Tuthur

Also, the Pokemon’s names in this thread link to sample sets or analysis!

S
Miltank
Rotom

A+
Alcremie
Articuno
Froslass
Klinklang
Qwilfish
Sawk
Tangela

A
Altaria
Jynx
Palossand
Rapidash
Rhydon
Silvally-Dark
Silvally-Poison
Skuntank
Stunfisk
Thwackey

A-
Clefairy
Cofagrigus
Dugtrio-Alola
Gourgeist-Small
Kabutops
Lycanroc-Midnight
Morpeko
Persian-Alola

B+
Cryogonal
Exeggutor
Ivysaur
Liepard
Poliwrath
Rapidash-Galar
Sableye
Shiftry
Silvally-Fighting
Stunfisk-Galar
Thievul
Uxie

B
Accelgor
Coalossal
Flapple
Gurdurr
Kangaskhan
Lilligant
Lunatone
Lurantis
Pawniard
Piloswine
Rotom-Fan
Silvally-Water
Throh

B-
Appletun
Crustle
Manectric
Ninetales
Pincurchin
Roselia
Silvally
Silvally-Grass
Swoobat

C+
Bouffalant
Cramorant
Golbat
Gourgeist-Super
Ludicolo
Pyukumuku
Raichu
Silvally-Electric
Silvally-Flying
Spiritomb
Trevenant
Unfezant

C
Abomasnow
Beheeyem
Butterfree
Carracosta
Hattrem
Type: Null

C-
Ditto
Drifblim
Leafeon
Shedinja
Shiinotic
Shuckle
Silvally-Psychic

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

Archive

May 23rd update:

Hide

S
Rotom
Sawk

A+
Alcremie
Articuno
Froslass
Jynx
Klinklang
Miltank
Rhydon
Tangela
Thwackey

A
Altaria
Persian-Alola
Qwilfish
Silvally-Poison

A-
Clefairy
Dugtrio-Alola
Gourgeist-Small
Kangaskhan
Piloswine
Poliwrath
Rapidash
Silvally-Dark
Skuntank
Stunfisk
Uxie

B+
Appletun
Gurdurr
Ivysaur
Liepard
Manectric
Morpeko
Shiftry
Silvally-Fighting
Thievul
Throh

B
Accelgor
Coalossal
Cramorant
Exeggutor
Flapple
Kabutops
Lycanroc-Midnight
Malamar
Ninetales
Silvally-Flying

B-
Golbat
Rapidash-Galar
Rotom-Fan
Spiritomb
Silvally
Silvally-Electric
Stunfisk-Galar
Unfezant

C+
Abomasnow
Cryogonal
Crustle
Gourgeist-Super
Hattrem
Lunatone
Raichu
Sableye
Trevenant
Type: Null

C
Bouffalant
Butterfree
Ludicolo
Lurantis
Musharna
Pyukumuku
Shiinotic
Silvally-Psychic
Swoobat

C-
Beheeyem
Boltund
Cradily
Drifblim
Lapras
Leafeon
Lilligant
Pincurchin
Shuckle
Silvally-Water

Last of 2021: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KCVwM8jQNK0doMdmvVhGVl-tYZhnamMsfyUWCLFvvoU/edit#gid=0

Hide

S
Rotom
Sawk

A+
Rhydon
Sandslash-Alola
Tangela
Wishiwashi

A
Alcremie
Altaria
Cinccino
Jynx
Kangaskhan
Miltank
Qwilfish
Rapidash
Silvally-Dark
Silvally-Poison
Skuntank
Thwackey

A-
Articuno
Basculin
Clefairy
Cofagrigus
Gourgeist-Small
Klinklang
Persian-Alola
Thievul
Throh

B+
Appletun
Aurorus
Cramorant
Eldegoss
Frosmoth
Gurdurr
Perrserker
Piloswine
Poliwrath
Shiftry
Stunfisk
Uxie

B
Coalossal
Dugtrio-Alola
Flapple
Liepard
Malamar
Morpeko
Ninetales
Pyukumuku
Rotom-Fan

B-
Accelgor
Golbat
Kabutops
Manectric
Raichu
Spiritomb
Silvally
Silvally-Electric
Silvally-Fighting

C+
Cradily
Cryogonal
Crustle
Gourgeist-Super
Ivysaur
Lurantis
Silvally-Flying
Stunfisk-Galar
Trevenant
Unfezant

C
Beartic
Bouffalant
Butterfree
Exeggutor
Hattrem
Lapras
Leafeon
Lycanroc-Midnight
Musharna
Pincurchin
Rapidash-Galar
Sableye
Shedinja
Shiinotic
Silvally-Grass
Swoobat

C-
Beheeyem
Boltund
Carbink
Ditto
Drifblim
Hakamo-o
Lilligant
Ludicolo
Marowak
Shuckle
Silvally-Water
Type: Null

V5 Votes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mEIc-VB-52Tc-9Wi4WM8wJLUg55Rc18bxqCbmxpBcg8/edit#gid=0

Hide

• S
  None!
  
  A+
  Alcremie
  Kangaskhan
  Rotom
  Sawk
  Tangela
  
  A
  Articuno
  Gourgeist-Small
  Miltank
  Qwilfish
  Rapidash
  Rhydon
  Sandslash-Alola
  Thwackey
  Uxie
  Wishiwashi
  
  A-
  Audino
  Cinccino
  Ferroseed
  Frosmoth
  Gurdurr
  Jellicent
  Jynx
  Persian-Alola
  Pyukumuku
  Silvally-Dark
  Skuntank
  
  B+
  Altaria
  Clefairy
  Cofagrigus
  Klinklang
  Manectric
  Ninetales
  Piloswine
  Poliwrath
  Rotom-Fan
  Rotom-Frost
  Shiftry
  Silvally-Poison
  Thievul
  
  B
  Appletun
  Arctovish
  Basculin
  Coalossal
  Cramorant
  Flapple
  Liepard
  Malamar
  Morpeko
  Perrserker
  
  B-
  Accelgor
  Aurorus
  Dugtrio-Alola
  Golbat
  Kabutops
  Spiritomb
  Silvally
  Silvally-Electric
  Stunfisk
  
  C+
  Cradily
  Cryogonal
  Crustle
  Ivysaur
  Silvally-Flying
  Stunfisk-Galar
  Throh
  Trevenant
  
  C
  Beartic
  Boltund
  Butterfree
  Ditto
  Drifblim
  Eldegoss
  Exeggutor
  Gourgeist-Super
  Lapras
  Leafeon
  Ludicolo
  Lycanroc-Midnight
  Pincurchin
  Raichu
  Rapidash-Galar
  Runerigus
  Sableye
  Silvally-Grass
  Silvally-Fighting
  Swoobat
  
  C-
  Bellossom
  Bouffalant
  Carbink
  Carracosta
  Hattrem
  Lilligant
  Lurantis
  Marowak
  Noctowl
  Shiinotic
  Shuckle
  Silvally-Water
  Type: Null

V4 Votes (Voted on whole VR): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bSJ08BzvQFARts3F3ptK8XMGhNmdne3QwEJduWPOEoA/edit#gid=0

Hide

S

Kangaskhan
Tangela

A+
Rotom
Sawk
Silvally-Ground
Uxie

A
Alcremie
Articuno
Ferroseed
Persian-Alola
Qwilfish
Rapidash
Skuntank
Thwackey
Wishiwashi

A-
Altaria
Audino
Cinccino
Frosmoth
Gourgeist-Small
Manectric
Pyukumuku
Rhydon
Shiftry
Thievul


B+
Appletun
Basculin
Clefairy
Coalossal
Cofagrigus
Cramorant
Flapple
Gurdurr
Jynx
Miltank
Ninetales
Piloswine
Poliwrath
Rotom-Fan
Rotom-Frost

B
Aurorus
Jellicent
Kabutops
Klinklang
Liepard
Perrserker
Rapidash-Galar
Silvally
Silvally-Dark
Silvally-Poison
Stunfisk
Swoobat
Trevenant

B-
Accelgor
Dugtrio-Alola
Golbat
Malamar
Morpeko
Spiritomb

C+
Butterfree
Cryogonal
Drifblim
Ivysaur
Ludicolo
Runerigus
Stunfisk-Galar

C
Boltund
Bouffalant
Carracosta
Cradily
Crustle
Ditto
Eldegoss
Exeggutor
Hattrem
Lapras
Leafeon
Lycanroc-Midnight
Marowak
Sableye
Stonjourner
Throh


C-
Lilligant
Lurantis
Noctowl
Pincurchin
Shuckle
Silvally-Water
Type: Null
Vibrava

V3 Votes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZI3m2SA6Oy4haXN0HRqqarXi1C8wY68ZGE9GqeA-sls/edit#gid=0

Hide

S

Kangaskhan
Tangela

A+
Garbodor
Qwilfish
Rotom
Sawk
Silvally-Ground
Uxie

A
Alcremie
Articuno
Basculin
Centiskorch
Ferroseed
Frosmoth
Persian-Alola
Rapidash
Skuntank
Wishiwashi

A-
Altaria
Audino
Cinccino
Cofagrigus
Gurdurr
Manectric
Pyukumuku
Rhydon
Rotom-Fan
Shiftry
Silvally-Ghost
Thievul
Thwackey


B+
Appletun
Clefairy
Cramorant
Flapple
Froslass
Gourgeist-Small
Miltank
Ninetales
Piloswine
Poliwrath
Rotom-Frost

B
Aurorus
Coalossal
Jellicent
Kabutops
Perrserker
Silvally
Silvally-Dark
Stunfisk
Trevenant

B-
Accelgor
Cryogonal
Dugtrio-Alola
Golbat
Klinklang
Liepard
Malamar
Morpeko
Spiritomb
Stunfisk-Galar
Swoobat

C+
Butterfree
Eldegoss
Ivysaur
Ludicolo
Rapidash-Galar
Runerigus
Stonjourner

C
Boltund
Carbink
Carracosta
Cradily
Crustle
Ditto
Exeggutor
Hattrem
Jynx
Leafeon
Lilligant
Marowak
Mawile
Pincurchin
Sableye
Shuckle
Silvally-Poison
Throh
Type: Null
Vanilluxe

C-
Bouffalant
Drifblim
Lurantis
Noctowl
Sandslash
Silvally-Water
Vibrava

V2 Votes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yz-QJhn_YJ-tv1r0rwEzHWYcL-o7ZNMX6zrmo8zwQkg/edit?usp=sharing

Aurorus Drop

New Pokemon
Aurorus
Vanilluxe

S
Uxie

A+
Centiskorch
Kangaskhan
Persian-Alola
Qwilfish
Rotom
Silvally-Ground

A
Basculin
Ferroseed
Frosmoth
Garbodor
Sawk
Silvally-Ghost
Skuntank
Tangela
Wishiwashi

A-
Alcremie
Altaria
Articuno
Audino
Cinccino
Cofagrigus
Gurdurr
Kabutops
Ludicolo
Piloswine
Pyukumuku
Rotom-Fan
Shiftry


B+
Clefairy
Froslass
Liepard
Miltank
Ninetales
Poliwrath
Rapidash
Rhydon
Stunfisk-Galar
Thievul
Thwackey

B
Appletun
Coalossal
Flapple
Gourgeist-Small
Manectric
Rotom-Frost
Silvally
Spiritomb
Trevenant

B-
Accelgor
Cramorant
Cryogonal
Ditto
Dugtrio-Alola
Jellicent
Malamar
Morpeko
Perrserker
Silvally-Dark
Stunfisk
Swoobat

C+
Butterfree
Eldegoss
Golbat
Klinklang
Stonjourner

C
Boltund
Carbink
Cradily
Crustle
Exeggutor
Jynx
Leafeon
Marowak
Mawile
Pincurchin
Runerigus
Sableye
Shuckle
Throh
Type: Null
Whiscash

C-
Bouffalant
Carracosta
Hattrem
Lurantis
Noctowl
Sandslash
Silvally-Poison
Silvally-Water

V1 Votes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w-r6dUoTukw6FX04r4dMMJtd_SqAGbWo2UC8COySNqQ/edit#gid=0

Pre-Articuno

New Pokemon
Articuno

S
Uxie

A+
Centiskorch
Kangaskhan
Persian-Alola
Rotom

A
Basculin
Cofagrigus
Frosmoth
Garbodor
Piloswine
Qwilfish
Rotom-Fan
Sawk
Silvally-Ghost
Silvally-Ground
Skuntank
Wishiwashi

A-
Alcremie
Altaria
Audino
Cinccino
Ferroseed
Gurdurr
Miltank
Pyukumuku
Shiftry


B+
Clefairy
Cramorant
Froslass
Kingler
Magneton
Poliwrath
Rapidash
Rhydon
Silvally-Dark
Tangela
Thievul

B
Appletun
Clawitzer
Flapple
Gourgeist-Small
Jellicent
Kabutops
Liepard
Ludicolo
Silvally
Spiritomb
Stunfisk-Galar
Thwackey
Type: Null

B-
Accelgor
Cryogonal
Ditto
Dugtrio-Alola
Golbat
Morpeko
Rotom-Frost
Swoobat
Throh
Trevenant

C+
Butterfree
Coalossal
Eldegoss
Exeggutor
Klinklang
Manectric
Ninetales
Silvally-Poison
Stonjourner

C
Abomasnow
Boltund
Carbink
Jynx
Leafeon
Malamar
Marowak
Mawile
Perrserker
Pincurchin
Sableye
Sandslash
Shuckle
Silvally-Water

C-
Avalugg
Beartic
Bouffalant
Carracosta
Hattrem
Hippopotas
Lurantis
Musharna
Noctowl
Runerigus

Initial Points of Discussion:

- Saw a rise in use and discussion due to breaking through stall builds, and most balances having no switch-ins. Last month it was overshadowed by Alolan Exeggutor, but after the banning, could Drampa be one of best special wallbreakers, or does its speed and weaknesses limit it to A-?

- Some Silvally formes ended up in the same rankings together. Does one do better than the other, or do they have the same value for different niches?

S Rank - There are no currently agreed S rank Pokemon, but Cofagrigus, Sneasel, and Uxie all received minority votes for the rank. Do any of these sound deserving for the top spot?

Stall Pokemon - Stall recently surged in activity, causing previously Low ranked Pokemon like Audino and Pyukumuku to rise to A-. Are there more stall staples to be recognized higher, or should they drop altogether?

Happy posting and feel free to nominate anything within reason :)

 

[Toto]

Hello cute zuers, firstly I just want to say that the council did a good job with the VR apart from adding Palpitoad and a few more things that seems off to me which I will address with my nominations below, enjoy :)

Regigigas UR > C. Its about time Regigigas the colossal titan got some respect around here. I've been using sub protect mainly and whilst it is fun to get the occasional sweep and humiliate your opponent, the bulky rest talk set is superior and the VR is based on the Pokémon's best set. With 110 base stats in defences and hp regigigas is a great wall that can be very annoying to face and disrupt your opponents team with utility moves such as knock off and toxic and well as being a status absorber for you own. It can be somewhat comparable to type null is this regard with the differences being trading u turn for knock off and having an item slot free for passive recovery in leftovers. Regi gang rise up.

Manectric UR > C-. Manectric also got dissrespcted hard by being wiped of the VR just because we got some rotom forms. Manectric distinguishes itself from the rotom forms thanks to its speed being over the coverted base 100 paired with its ability lightning rod providing an electric immunity. Manectric can run 2 great sets in choice specs and choice scarf with access to switcheroo allowing Manectric to cripple bulky grounds such as Palossand and Rhydon as well as bulky spd walls such as audino, Type: Null and Appletun.

Silvally-Ghost A+ > A. Silvally-Ghost should not be the same rank as the monster named Silvally-Dragon. Its far inferior in my opinion and easily the worse A+ rank and wouldn't even be top 5 in A rank for me. The main problem is that it stab 120 bp move is less spammable thanks to the abundance of normal types in the tier at the moment. This forces Silvally-Ghost to run coverage moves like X-Scissor which is not a great move in addition to substitute as to not gets status by the normal types. Subsitute may seems like a good thing as it allows setup on theses normals bar scrappy miltank and goat regigigas however it is weakening itself down which allows it to be revenged killed easier once it is forced out. Revenge killing silvally-Ghost is made more apparent thanks to it not having flame charge to boost its speed allowing common scarfers like Rotom and Sawk to revenge and well as anything 95base and above.

Rapid fire round
Butterfree C- > C Very out of place in C- for a dangerous sweeper. Sleep power is very annoying to deal with allowing free setup
Eldegoss C+ > C-/UR. Looks passable on paper thanks to it having regen and rapid spin however it actually sucks
Palpitoad C- > UR. Stop czim its bad and its small niche of checking turt is now gone

edit: I will add replays maybe, plz dont kill me

 

[AstilCodex]

Hello hello. I'm glad we finally have a somewhat stablished meta and therefore a new VR! Good job to all council members for doing this. However I feel some of them feel a little off specially when you go down to the lower ranks. First round of noms is gonna be quick but I may get deeper on them soon.

Rises:
A- > A. This mon has literally no switch-ins. As when it comes in u gotta pick a mon, win a 50/50 or scout with protect. It's also not narrowed on specs sets as it can run CM and has reliable recovery in roost. It suits better with the mons placed in A

B > B+ Kinda same as above but with more flaws. Even resisted mon doesnt want to take a specs hit from this. Great coverage, U-turn if it wants to pivot. It can also surprise mid speed tier mons with scarf set.

B > B+ Kinda disrespectful to have jelli that low. Fast taunt serves as a defensive stallbreaker. Spdef sets should see more use.

B- > B/B+ This mon has been very consistent for me. One of the few reliant answers to magmortar. Not only that, its stabs are very annoying to switch into by ferroseed and clefairy, nothing likes coming on appletun. Apple acid helps dealing with fat mons as audino and coffin winning 1v1.

B- > B Very inconsistent but stall hates switch into it. Supported well it can sweep through fat which is good enough to put in on B

B- > B Most consistent spinner (ik it gets defog but for hazard stack). Staple on stall/semistall cores.

C+ > B- Offensive spinner and pivot, good for voltturn and t spike cores. Very strong stabs with an amazing secondary effect in speed rise making in annoying to revenge kill. Stands out over all C+ mons.

C > C+ Very scary mon if it caughts you off guard. Fast sleep option with good double stab. Access to nasty plot. 95 is very good speed as it can afford to run scarf being faster than common scarfers like Sawk and Rotom. Use this over mime lol

C- > C/C+ Agree with toto here as butterfree can be a scary wincon on determinate games. Flying is decent spammable stab alongside sleep and qd. Shouldn't be that low.

Now the UR party:
UR > C+ Checks the 2 most broken mons in the tier right now. Even if it doesnt reliable counter sneasel it does struggle against it. 3rd best spinner behind cryo and morpeko.
UR > C+ Very good fighting answer and obnoxiously walls common stuff like Sawk, Gurdurr, Dark and Groundvally, Poliwrath, Appletun, Phys Basculin, Shiftry. Def better than all crap ranked on C lol.
UR > C Again being serious on this. With all fat stally teams being so common. Both subtect and resttalk are so difficult to beat for those teams. Also it can work on fatter cores as well. This should not be looked as meme but as a niche mon that can be troublesome.
UR > C I've seen enough variants of this on g-terrain teams to think it has a chance to be on the vr. It needs more turns but it can be more threatening than swoobat is sometimes.
UR > C Fast electric type that can hurt grass types. Great speed tier and access to switcheroo. Yh this should not be forgotten. Better than stupid boltund.
UR > C Have had success with it on web teams and also with spike stacking. Its typing is oddly good for the meta even tho it lacks bulk. Great against uxie null core. Can setup on ghost n darkvally, audino, no fight move sneasel. Bulkier variants do this better.
UR > C- I've seen this on fat teams to handle stuff that stall dont wanna face like magmortar or sub moth. Not great but it deserves the spot.
UR > C- I honestly don't have strong argument with this guy but I think it should see some use. Looks def better than all C- tho.

Drops:
A > A- Don't feel like this belong that high with the common answers tier has in Jelli, poli, qwilfish, tangela, appletun, ferroseed. Fits better with the ones in A-

B+ > B Still think this is overrated as alone it gets outclassed by sneasel (and sneasel still here for now) even then its not as strong and reliable with choiced sets. Spikes are cool but it seems too high.

B+ > B/B- I guess the speed tier and setup option serves this as a good alternative for the primary fire types we have but that option isn't good enough to justify being on B+. Even at +2 is manageable by the same checks who answers centi and mag. Also its easier to check for ground types.

(small) B > B- Scarf is good and typing still good offensively but it seems kinda off being on B. Def better when gallade was around. Still hates miltank, garbodor, alopersian. Polter sucks with knock. Just a mid ghost.

UR party reversed version:
C+ > UR This mon is terrible and you cant deny it. Even with spin, regen and cleric option. Is so stupidly exploitable and it does nothing 90% of the games.
(normal) C+ > C-/UR Use kangaskhan lol. Or even regigigas rt. You won't waste your vally slot on this.
C > UR This mon is awful. Its stab is weak and it doesnt beat any ground even with its coverage. band is also easy to switch into when its locked.
C > UR This is a lot worse than butterfree and butterfree isnt the best mon either. Is so hard to make it worth it shouldnt be ranked.
C > UR Awful mon. Use shuckle for webs use uxie or mush for setup whatever. Future sight niche isnt enough to justify it imo
C- > UR We have kabutops. Rain isnt great and the fact that this kills itself with head smash isnt an argument to keep it alive.
(super) C- > UR I don't see why would you use this over any other bulky ghost or grass. Theres better options. Shiinotic does it better and its currently UR.

Ok thats it for now. Imma collect replays if I need to support my opinion on some. Hopefully the Cs get washed with this. Until next time :3

 

[gye5]

I want to nominate Marowak to C+. Is an excellent wallbreaker that advantage of many stall teams that rely on toxic and knock off to punish the opponent, with a sub, the opponent has no real option to answer marowak if not running tangela. The example below is not stall, but it also shows that it doesnt need a stall matchup to function.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1281105438

 

[Tuthur]

UR to C+

set

Hattrem (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Mystical Fire
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Hattrem is really cool in stall team for its ability to punish teams that rely on passive hazard setters such as Qwilfish, Garbodor, and Ferroseed to wear down walls. These type of teams are very common and Altaria's 24 PP aren't enough in a stall game to keep hazard off, while Edegoss's Rapid Spin can easily be spinblock, so Hattrem gives them a very reliable way to beat these teams.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1281056182-oumuco165tbonxhpi7ere26dtt48c16pw

B+ to A-
Altaria should defenitely rise, it's the most reliable Defogger for balance and stall. It brings so much utility in games, being able to handle all the Fire-types that are a nightmare for teambuilding, absorb status, and being able to switch freely on almost every defensive Pokémon thanks to Natural Cure and its great bulk. In comparison, A- Defoggers are Rotom-Fan and Cramorant while less passive are more easily worn down due to the former's lack of recovery and the latter's average's bulk, while both are very weak to Toxic.

 

[kay]

Raises:

A+ --> S
Best mon in the tier by far. ID body press sets act as a teams physical wall, wall breaker, and win condition all in the same set and you can fit this on practically any team. There are also only a select few actual answers to it, mostly relying more on how you play against it rather then for building prep you can build for it so its fairly easy to end up choking a match around Cofa. Its by far the most threatening thing in the tier right now.

A --> A+
best scarfer in the tier as well as so much versatility between NP, defog, and offensive hex sets. Not much to say about it other then it being one of the few scarfers to out pace +2 Omastar so it can also really just fix your match ups against a lot of random things. The 2 immunities, while risky to use, also can be a difference maker against something like a Cofa if you read the body press. Trick is also huge for any scarfer it as we learned in the Gallade meta.

A- --> A/A+
This thing has zero switch ins, bulk and typing to get itself in, and 2 immunities to play with. It just plays so well in the tier right now against balanced you basically force your opponent to pick their fodder any time this comes in or rely on shaky/niche answers like Sp.D cream.

A- --> A
Both CB sawk and Scarf sawk are incredible right now with CB actually able to muscle past some of our best fighting resists in the meta right now like Cofa, Uxie, and Altaria. Scarf does sacrifice a lot of power but its reasonable to have a Scarf Sawk just be able to clean in the late game thanks to a lot of our fighting resists not having great recovery options (rest on cofa/uxie being the best ones) so if you get to the late game you can reasonably play for Sawk to clean or just revenge kill.

B+ --> A-
This thing chews through balance and stall. SD, knock, sucker, leaf storm pretty much as no defensive switch ins and its a booster that can bypass Pyukumuku which is insane right now. Its one of the better answers to stall in the tier while also maintaining a very threatening stance against offense as at +2 sucker makes it extremely hard to revenge kill.

B+ --> A-/A
Stall and balanced staple right now. With Drampa on the rise as much as it is, you're basically picking between Carbink/Stunfisk-g as your rocker right now as it can pressure Drampa enough to not mindlessly click Draco the entire game. It also does really handy things like dealing with Magmortar, Frosmoth, and blocking parting shot from Persian. This thing is a top tier rocker in the meta right now and gives you so much compression that the rest of your team can be a lot more flexible knowing a lot of threats are checked off thanks to Carbink.

B --> B+
Same as above but a little worse. You do trade your ability to wall Magmortar but in return you get a much better Rotom and Vally dragon/ghost match up thanks to Foul Play so there's still a lot of reason to pick it up

Drops:

(ghost)
A+ --> A
While this mon is amazing at what it does, I just don't see it being as good as things like Mag, Uxie, Sneasel, or even some of the things we currently have in A like Skorch, Omastar, and Rotom.

A --> B+
The meta has not been kind to it as a rocker but its SD + Rock Polish set is still great, and by far its best set right now. But as a set up sweeper I don't see it belonging in the A tiers thanks to its inability to deal with stall, so B+ is I think a better fit for it as its really great into BO and some offense teams.

A- --> B+
Teams have gotten fatter and boots on bulky teams are the standard so this having amazing match up against offense as well as the best tool to pair with spikes isn't as great of a trait as it used to be. Its still great at what it does, its just the meta trends have not been kind to it. This mon got better with recent meta shifts and its fine in A- now so undoing that nom

A- --> B+
Full stall has given rise to skunk needing to run Taunt on its NP set which greatly hinders it because its trading the great match up into balance with fire blast coverage for the better stall match up with Taunt. But stall teams have been able to adapt to that lately with things like Stunfisk-g and sp.d rocks Mawile which your____bro has been spamming on the ladder after I passed him my team and has been destroying people with it. Its just caught in a really weird spot right now and it's notably worse then it was before stall took over.

 

[Danny]

Yo dani here with some VR nominations after this grueling suspect run, gonna try to not go over anything others have already mentioned so I won’t be talking about the obvious guys in this post. I settled on a team for the test that I feel deals with much of the meta using some niche picks that kay reccomended. Now onto the noms:

Major Noms:

UR—> C+
Okay so after complaining to Kay about the Taunt Skuntank ruining my stall runs, he devised the idea to try SpD Mawile. Mawile compresses a ton of utility, Skuntank Check(if it’s fire move pyuk beats it), SR setter, Flapple and Appletun counter, Frosmoth check and a way to pressure Altaria(does about 50 with PR). Very nice mon, not the best rocker but for its niche in stall I feel like it deserves to be ranked higher than shitmon Eldegoss.

Replays of Mawile vs. Flapple and Appletun:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1282075526-d3zjs002rzqnes441v5cudjvryfx0v9pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1282105346-ki2w39elo7ozm47bcv9r6bj96g6rb5hpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1282058751-funnfmptjd1ehskpst5joyt8ffe5pvnpw
Replays of Mawile vs. Frosmoth:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1281923623-3e5xmdptn0z0o8pqo0vgt9o1r0xb2rxpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1281271885-5ryk5rb7097t6arzapjo4g62edukgvopw

Forgot to save the most relevant issue but here’s a replay of a kid I beat w my Mawile cteaming me with the most unset of all Skuntank sets bc Mawile is such a threat:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1281588693-bk53tjsroy96j1rvsp09432vo3bmhkgpw
Deserves to be mentioned and should be AT LEAST C since it’s niche is more defined than many things in the ranking.

C+—>B+
Another nom based on my stall through ladder experience, Spiritomb is an excellent wincon on stall, might I say better than ID Cofa in this niche, as it pressure stalls opposing stall Pokémon and is much less passive when asleep. Has the ability to win games outright once people have exhausted their physical breakers and even then Spiritomb can be used to poke holes and beat anti-stall measures such as Perish Trap Altaria. Stall is over all better with Spiritomb, and it’s ranking should reflect what it provides to stall teams.
Replays of Spiritomb clutching a game I had no business winning due to bad hax:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1281544312-lewrk703rhstv3jglhy1snx97at07ompw
Replay of Spiritomb winning on preview:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1281378490-a6wnqgqdh8vv7np1e2o7hq1p46vwxo1pw

With those absolute units done onto my minor rise and drop nominations:

Rises:

B—>B+
Another stall mon, minor change just think it deserves to be higher because it blanket walls many things in the tier such as Kanga, Lycanroc, and random Silvally forms. Has a ton if tools such as Knock Off, Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, and Toxic. Deserves to be ranked higher than Cincinno.

A- —>A
Contrary to what kay said above, I think the fact that we are forced to run Mawile, Stunfisk Base, or Galar-fisk on every stall team, all of which are one flinch away or just racking Fire Blast onto the Skuntank, warrants it be ranked higher. Skuntank was notorious in DLC 1 NU as the stall killer, one flinch away from running through the whole team. It has the ability to break common defensive cores, only struggling with the prevalence of Type Null. Overall deserves to be ranked higher purely because of the stall match up, it singlehandedly can wreck standard stall with the right sets.

C+—>B
A potent Ghost type breaker, Trevenant’s CB set is hard to wall, and distinguishes it from the Gourgeist Forms by having access to Drain Punch for Miltank and Drampa. Drain almost always OHKOs with rocks, which is always a good thing against what will be arguably running the mera assuming Sneasel is Banned. In Drampa’s meta it should be considered a good nuke. Another reason for this rise is just precedent, all the other Grassy Terrain mons are in B- and Trevenant is by far the best Grassy Terrain abuser bar Swoobat. It’s better in my opinion though because it can sweep teams much more easily because it can nuke Sneasel with Glide.

Drops:

(small) B—>B-
In tandem with Trevenant, Gourgeist-small is much worse since many people are spamming Drampa and it’s only way to hit Drampa is to Explode on it and that’s not necessarily a good thing. Trevenant is stronger, and has coverage. Trade places but still has a good niche because of its speed tier.

B—>C-
What is this thing doing here. It’s niche is nonexistent and it is completely outclassed by Sneasel as a fast Dark Type. Thievul does special better, and even Sableye does Prankster better. Maybe post Sneasel meta it might step up, but at the moment it is absolute dog and not worth being B.

A—>A-
What will probably be my most contentious take, I believe Omastar is completely overhyped. If you disagree with this take you might believe this is just someone nomming from their playstyle, “Of course the stall player thinks Omastar is fine, he’s got pyuku,” but I think the meta as a whole is prepared for Omastar. Let’s start with defensive ways to deal with Omastar. I’d like to start with the most obvious answer to it and that’s Poliwrath. Even with no SpD investment(which I think it should have some SpD to deal with Skuntank on balance teams) it lives the +3 Meteor Beam and Circle Throws it out, leaving the Omastar with little to no way to set up safely again. Even after that, Wrath still has the ability to check Sneasel, generally living at between 25-36 after Leftovers recovery. This is without SpD investment which isn’t its best set in my experience. Other defensive checks include Wishiwashi, SpD Uxie, and SpD Eldegoss, all of which have their niches. On the other hand, Rotom being the best scarfer and always being able to revenge kill after a Shell Smash hinders Omastar’s performance. Scarf Gourg Small also rkill s, which is nice if you want to use that mon. Other ways to deal with it include Mach Punch from Gurdurr after some chip. Sucker Punch Shiftry, Ice Shard from Sneasel and the aforementioned Scarfers keep Omastar in line. Don’t misunderstand, still a potent sweeper that can get past its checks with proper play, but not nearly as scary as some believe. Doesn’t deserve the A rank in my experience.

Hope you guys enjoyed my post, and hopefully my noms help you understand my views on the meta. Kinda wanted to touch on the Drampa issue, but I might do that in another post.

Adios :)

PS: Ban Sneasel

Edit: Came to my attention that the reason Liepard is ranked so high is due to weather teams, and although that is a fair point, I still don’t believe it deserves a B ranking. I think C is a much more fair assessment of Liepard as a weather setter since it’s no Uxie, the superior weather setter, and other than that it’s really bad.

 

[NinjaMonkey3904]

Alright, time for my opinions on which mons should rise and drop! Well, my singular rise/drop opinion, Granted this has only existed for three or so days now but still!

B- -> B Let's see what Appletun brings to the table, it is probably one of the best checks to Magmortar in the entire meta, with Focus Blast(the only move Magmortar commonly uses that Appletun doesn't resist), only doing 25-30 percent to the common SPD set, with Appletun in return capable of circumventing Taunt by throwing an Apple Acid into Draco Meteor to forcefully pressure Magmortar out or it'll get nuked, but that's not the only benefit of Appletun! It is remarkably good at pressuring Stalls core of Pyuk and Audino, with Apple Acid and leech seed forcing the two to switch around and generally giving both mons a hard time of staying in or even getting to do anything to Appletun, however, I disagree with Codex that it should rise to B+, seeing as it is remarkably easy to give a hard time with toxic and taunt, and it struggles with both Dragonvally and runs in terror from Sneasel, both of whom are top mons in the tier at the moment, but overall I do think Appletun deserves to be at least B rank, seeing what it brings to the table as a Stall pressurer and arguably the best Magmortar check in the tier. On a side note, as a SPD wall it checks a lot of stuff, takes less then half from Choice Spec Ice Beam from Basculin, lives(a singular) +2 Ice beam from Omastar, survives a single Blizzard on a roll from Timid Vanilluxe, and is 2HKO'd by +2 Skuntank's Sludge Bomb, seriously this thing is rather bulky if it avoids being 1HKO'd by all of those, but the fact it's so easily crippled by status and Frosmoth and Sneasel flat out exist(to say nothing of Dragonvally) means that while I do think it's B tier worthy, it is not B+ worthy

on a much smaller note here is some notable stuff from other people I agree with but don't feel as strong as in comparison to Appletun

UR -> C+
A -> A+
UR -> C+
all of AstilCodex's C/C+->UR rankings except for Silvally normal
B- - C+(don't feel it should be C- as it's a pretty good weather setter, but doesn't belong in B-)
C- -> UR
UR -> Not UR, probablyC
UR -> C+

 

[kirbyssu]

Where's lilligant?

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Where's lilligant?

Considering that I actually used Lilligant in this meta, I can theorize why its considered unviable:

1. Has really bad match-ups with a lot of the top tiers. The Fire-types, Dragonvally, Drampa, Garbodor, Sneasel, Ferroseed especially.

2. Butterfree is a better Quiver Dancer. Both of them are match-up dependent but Butterfree can more easily sweep due to its higher accuracy Sleep Powder and Flying is much better STAB than Grass in this meta (and unlike Lilligant Butterfree actually gets good coverage for its resists). Considering Butterfree isn't ranked highly on here to begin with that should say something. Oh yeah and there's Frosmoth but that thing doesn't get Sleep Powder so it shouldn't be in the line of comparison ala Butterfree.

3. Scarf/Specs sets seem to not be in too high of demand even with the Healing Wish niche. Shiftry and Appletun are better special attacking Grass-types in this meta because they have more solid niches and can muscle their way through some of the Pokemon I mentioned in point #1.

 

[gglrg]

Alright this thread is kinda dead and i'm gonna make some noms.

A+ to S
Uxie is definitely a top 3 mon in this meta if not the best. 75/130/130 bulk is very good being a soft check to things like magmortar and a good check to thing likes sawk and gurdurr. It is also very versatile and can fit easily on so many teams either as a support mon, a hazard setter with brilliant tools like knock off to weaken a mon also removing it's item which can be key in situations and u-turn and future sight for momentum even be a lead on screens hyper offence with memento. It can also go on the offence with options like nasty plot and calm mind. So with these points and how splashable and versatile this mon is I think it is worthy of an s rank spot.

A- to A
Sawk is an amazing mon right now with either a choice scarf or band or even bulk up sets. Choice band gives you the extra power for you to get through checks like altaria and threaten stall, whereas scarf is a very good late game cleaner especially when the fighting resists are dealt with. So I think 1 subrank higher is better for it.

A- to A
This mon is a very good stallbreaker, arguably the best one. It's speed let's it get the jump on things like magmortar which is always great. Nasty plot can always put a massive hole in teams defensives or even sweep all the way through. Taunt allows to bypass wannabe checks like pyukumuku and fire blast is also a great option to hit things hard like mawile or cryogonal. Also can support teams with defog for hazard removal.

B- to B/B+
This apple pie is great. Spdef sets with thick fat can easily check pokemon like magmortar, basculin and rotom and can survive powerful blizzards from aurorus, vanilluxe and rotom-frost then get some chip/good damage off to help it's team. Substitute with 2 attacks recover can pressure stall and 1v1 audino and win alot of the time. It has flaws like being put on a timer by toxic, literally become frosmoth food and running spdef makes it very vulnarable to those physical attackers.

B+ to A-
This thing doesn't care about stall or balance and with sd leaf storm sucker punch and knock it lacks switch ins and can plough throw your team with ease. Obviously has flaws like it's speed and it doesn't last on the field long but it is just very good and should be in the a ranks.

B+ to A-
Fluffy bird is excellent on balance and stall sometimes even offensive. Doesn't care about status and beats the fires and fightings of the tier with not too much problem. Unlike defoggers like the rotom forms and silvally formes it can last on the field for longer and has better bulk than defoggers like cramorant . Also should be bumped up to A ranks.

C to C+
Boltund is the 2nd fastest mon in the unboosted tier, only accelgor is faster which allows it to revenge kill with ease, Strong Jaw is a great ability to boost it's STAB thunder fang and other options like fire fang and psychic fangs. Life orb 4 attacks is a very good option to wallbreak and bulk up can set up and sweep unprepared teams.

B+ to B-
This pokemon is super disappointing. It has good speed and a set up option in swords dance but it has the same checks alot of fires have like altaria where it literally just kills itself. I guess support sets could work but it just isn't good right now in my opinion.

C- to UR
I don't get why this on the vr. I don't think this toad should be ranked whatsoever. It really doesn't offer anything and has no reliable recovery and is arguably outclassed by every bulky water and ground and rocker on this vr In my opinion.

UR to C-/C
I think this deserves a place on the vr. It is outclassed by kangaskhan but it has some advantages over it like swords dance, better coverage in close combat and a 2 good abilities it can use in sap sipper and reckless to boost it's stab head charge. More consistent bulk with 3 95s and can sweep when normal resists are out of the way. I will try and add replays but this is just my personal nom and feel free to agree and disagree. Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1295784720 : Here is banded bouffalant taking out the only normal resist with a close combat+ future sight combo on rhydon so then head charge was free and Bouffalant ended up claiming 4 kills and servely denting that tangela a few times.

And to end this post here is some stuff I agree with from previous posts.
to C+/B-
to C/C+
to A+
to C+
to B+
to B
to C/C+

 

[5Dots]

Regigigas UR > C+/C. Regigigas, although difficult to play, can be crucial at weakening the opposing team. Instead of using Subtect sets, I've been using status sets to cripple opposing teams. Before long, Regigigas’ teammates will finish toxiced/paralyzed/itemless foes. With 110 base stats in defences and protect, the great wall can be quite annoying to face with Knock Off, Toxic, and Thunder Wave.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1295850315-jeehrd1oxc5bvr6l51csuak74ftb7ahpw

Regigigas‘ use of knock off + Toxic rendered Rotom-Fan vulnerable to Corsola-G late game, and its use of thunder wave towards centriskorch required Rapidash-G to be sacrificed to shake the effects off.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1295859632

Regigigas can play an extremely active role in contributing with its status, despite being burned. Here, it was able to do so with impunity, gradually weakening the other team and even able to finish off weakened opponents. This allowed its teammates (Jellicent and Corsola-G) to chip away what’s left of the opponent’s team.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1296110764
An orbless Clawitzer and a toxiced cinccino doesn’t spell very well.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1296124362
Given the opportunity, Regigigas once again crippled the opposing team before Poliwrath finished the job.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1296490968
Once again, Gigas served as a deadly poison to even the deadliest of walls and attackers.

 

[JdRDMS]

Quick minor noms from the new bans:

Carracosta, Appletun, Flapple: C- / B- -> Higher
Should be pretty obvious, all three of these mons lost major competition from the bans (Carracosta lost Omastar, Appletun lost Drampa, and Flapple lost Dragonvally), so they should rise to accommodate this. Granted, for the latter two, other arguments could be made for them to rise, but the bans definitely gave them a boost imo.

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

Tentative VR Deadline: The 17th, One Week From Today!

I'm putting a tentative deadline to get in your VR noms for the new meta. One week sounds like a good enough time, and the VR is in much need of an update after losing 4 A rank threats. Council will do a vote like normal and we'll update the VR shortly after the deadline date; we likely won't address noms made past the deadline, so get em in while you can! Check out my own noms below :)

Rises

S: I thought Uxie was S even before the bans, but now it's clear as day. It's mixed bulk is phenomenal to compliment its super supportive movepool. Really each moveslot fulfills a unique supportive niche for your team, and I think on other mons that preface would make it sound like the set is congested. Regardless, Uxie pulls it off. This splashibility alone is unparalleled and it fits near everywhere. Put the king on top.

S: Not as accessible as Uxie but any team that builds around Centiskorch and its perfect coverage will do pretty well. It's one of the most centralizing and immediately threatening mons in the tier, and it also lacks competition as a Fire-type in a post-Turt and -Magortar meta.

A+: Probably the best offensive pivot with an unresisted dual STAB. It also has a ton of sets to try out so you'lll never go wrong with it. If someone nommed it to S, I'd likely agree, but I'm personally on the fence with it just due to my own experience. Plus, Rotom competes with other valid Electrics and Ghosts, so it's dual typing can be annoying teambuilding wise.

A+: Unstoppable with an SD and LO. Even something like Silvally-Ground can easily drop it to it, and physical walls like Cofa, Tang, Qwil, and Garb all have issues late-game once they're worn down. Accelrock is also really relevant as priority. I'd recommend building around Lycan as a wincon in the same way as I would Cofa, and Lycan of course pulls its own weight mid-game as a competent revenge killer to most wallbreakers.

(Ground) A: I'm nomming these two together as they work so well as a core as the stars of VoltTurn. The mix of offensive coverage, defensive typings, and good natural bulk combine together to provide switch-ins for eachother and target eachother's checks. Individually, Rotom-S's specially offensive Flying STAB is pretty valuable with its Fighting and Grass resistances, and SilvGround with SD and perfect Ground / Rock coverage also destroys most of the meta. Their competition either can't compare to their VoltTurn niche, or in Rotom's case, are already ranked higher if they work better just generally.

A: The ice cream was already a close sidegrade to Magmortar. With it gone, vanilla is the new best specially offensive wallbreaker / stallbreaker.

A: Premier bulky offensive rocker. It's typing + Thick Fat is also really nice atm, giving it a lot of good neutral MUs to SR or attack. It's dual STAB is also near perfect, so it's easy to see why Piloswine always does something worthwhile in-game.

A-: Defensive boosting sets are working well and not much can deal with it late-game. Stored Power sets also beat some stall variants.

A-: It's a top tier threat in my books. Whether it's CB or scarf, the offensive utility from its coverage and speediness goes a long way for most teams. It does, however, compete with all the other good Normals in the tier, so I can't say it's unique enough to be ranked any higher.

B+: Substitute + Analytic sets are legit. It's also got decent bulk with Eviolite, and I think that teams that want to benefit from the perks of a Steel-type will generally enjoy Mag the most out of the rest of the Steels.

B+: Stakeout Choice Specs sets are legit. The have limited opportunities to come in due to fraility + slower than threats like Rotom + Silvally formes, but once it's in it'll be rewarding.

B: Still are both awkward to use but there's two less Dragons in the tier so there is more room for them to shine. More on Flapple: to me it's outclassed a lot by Shiftry and is just inconsistent with Hustle. I like Draco for Poison-types, but STAB Knock Off and Sucker Punch are just too good to compare to it. One subrank lower than Shiftry sounds good for Flapple.

B: Gterrain teams are kind of working consistently now. I'd say they're average enough for Thwackey to have B rank status.

B-: Choice Band sets are destructive against any fat playstyle. However, it just competes with so many offensive Grass-types that are faster and have more switch-in opportunities because of it, that I can't say it should be ranked any higher atm.

B-: I was wrong when I wanted this UR. It has legit letup opportunities and can sweep probably more reliably than anything else in the C ranks.

C+: It's easier to fit on teams and provides a ton in just one mon. I think its bulk is pretty neat and as a special wall you tank a lot of neutral special attacks pretty well, and can even wall threats like Vanilluxe and Frosmoth as they usually won't have coverage for it.

Drops

> B: This is a drastic drop. The bans didn't directly affect Rhydon too much, but it's typing just makes it too vulnerable to way too many common picks. It's becoming a mon that's less independent and now needs multiple cores to support it. All of the recent meta trends favor Pokemon that can bop Rhydon, and we're in no shortage of general bulky walls that can set SR (Uxie and Pilo do its jobs better). Dual dance sets are still good but pretty niche in application.

B+: Both of these LCs have typings that I think are gaining more competition with comparable representatives. The meta favors a ton of Knock Off or Trick users that can hurt these guys, and I just don't see them as top meta anymore. Their cores are also destroyed by most stallbreakers / wallbreakers, and only having Knock Off for Centiskorch switching in is a real bummer; pretty much gatekeeping the A ranks for me right now.

> B+: Palossand's typing leaves it vulnerable to everything, as most offensive mons have super effective coverage for it, and it's Toxic weakness also means it's having to be supported. It's still got a few good niches like hard countering Lycanroc.

> B-: Its coverage and power aren't worth what is essentially a pretty useless typing. It's also a bit of a noob trap, and I would rather have this VR emphasize its pitfalls than its success stories.

> B-: I have yet to see these mons been pulled off reliably. That, and Water-types are very good and bountiful in this meta, so defaulting to Kingler when we have the faster Basculin, or Clawitzer when we have the bulkier Wishiwashi, is just hard to justify.

New Nom

C: Hail is working out decently enough. Everyone knows the man Rubicon is a legend with his Ice spam teams. There's a legit good strategy behind it, and ZU is full with awesome Snow Warning user to activate abilities like Slush Rush and Snow Cloak. That's where Beartic fits in as a much needed wincon and physical attacker to compliment the Blizzard spammers. Plus, with SD Abomasnow, the two work just as well as they did last gen; in precedent at least. It still has a lot of flaws and I've been tweaking it, but i got to 1590s earlier today on ladder spamming hail so surely it's far from unusable.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1297413490
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1298861531
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1297802417
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1297776855

I probs missed some more but I'll let you guys voice what's been working for you recently.

 

[czim]

Hello Palpilovers. Here are my nomnomnoms (that weren't made yet, or maybe were and I just couldn't find them or wanted to add something else)

Rises
A to A+ Kitty has been amazing for me after the bans, be it Scarf, Nasty Plot or just the standard Boots pivot set that is by far its best set. I think it is very splashable at the moment and the combination of Knock Off, Foul Play and Parting Shot makes it so easy to come in, force stuff out by either threatening the item removal or the KO against physical attackers with Foul Play, gain momentum or Toxic would be switch-ins (if you run it over Taunt). I think Volt Turn teams are at a high right now and Persian-A should rise a subrank to reflect this alongside Uxie, Rotom-Fan, Wishiwashi, Silvally-Ground and other splashable pivots
A- to A Similarly to Persian-A, Wishi's wishes came true and its ability as a slow pivot is extremely valued right now. Considering the downfall of the once-dominant Poliwrath, Wishiwashi's ability to generate momentum with U-turn makes it a more appealing water-check and ice-check in this metagame, while also pressuring grass-types more like Appletun and Gourgeist/Trevenant that can just come in freely on Poliwrath. Another Volt turn lover
A- to A With Magmortar getting banned, I think Skuntank rises as the next Taunt Stallbreaker of choice (alongside Vanilluxe which has been nommed already). Its overall amazing typing gives it an excellent Toxic immunity and Knock Off resist giving it several free switch-ins vs passive builds unlike Vanilluxe. Good matchups vs Persian-A, Audino, Uxie and the Ghost/Grass breakers and other mons that are getting more and more common just gives it an edge and this rise reflects its higher splashability.
B+ to A- Not super sure on this one but I think this is better and more splashable than everything on B+. Froslass is just super annoying to play around and deny Spikes to, the ability to go special, physical, Twave, Taunt, Dbond and Trick makes it very difficult to scout in the early game. CB is also a pretty decent breaker with a great speed tier that can also double as a revenge killer against some threats.
C+ to B- I used it lately in room tours (especially a Sub Toxic set that has been extremely annoying) and I gotta say I'm pleasantly surprised by its performance, Its bulk coupled with endless Substitutes makes it a nightmare for passive builds, and its typing gives it a lot of free Subs vs common stuff like Audino, Carbink, Rhydon, Qwilfish, Poliwrath, Basculin, Appletun and so on, and Psychic+Grass stabs arent super easy to switch into, although some mons like Shiftry and Skuntank shut it down, but those arent commonly seen in more passive builds, which are the best matchups for Exeggutor.

Drops
A to A- How the mighty have fallen, 2 staples during Sneasel meta just arent as good as they used to be. Other Ice-types that can break these 2 easily are more common like Vanilluxe that can break the 2 with Taunt/Toxic and Freeze-Dry respectively, for example, making them lose space in team compositions for Audino and Wishiwashi specifically. We also have more viable Rockers now with stuff like Piloswine becoming more viable and Poliwrath has been gaining competition since there's more freedom for Fighting- and Water- types in this meta without Sneasel and Omastar around.
(Dark) A- to B I just dont see Silv-Dark as an A- mon (and not even a B+ one), its hard to justify when we have other pivots like Liepard and Persian-A that pretty much do the same job as a fast pivoting dark-type without taking the Silvally-slot while retaining offensive power or bulk depending on which one you pick. The other top tier Silvally-forms like Ground and Ghost have way less competition and more useful immunities in this metagame to take advantage of, while also having less coverage issues.

UR rises
UR to C/C- I've been using Taunt+U-turn Raboot to fill the gap that Magmortar left behind and, despite is low bulk that can hinder it, has been pretty consistent and helped Volt Turn teams keep momentum. A replay to show it doing work (I know it had a really great MU here but I couldn't find any other replays bc i didn't save it, but trust me its decent :().
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1297776855
UR to C+ To feed on Temporal Totodile's PTSD, Stonjourner has been an excellent Choice Band user for me for a few key reasons to justify it over the Lycanrocs. It's bulky, giving it the ability to take a few hits on the Physical side from stuff like Silvallies, Kangaskhan, Cinccino and so on. Its coverage is absurd, here are some calcs to showcase how important Heat Crash is.
252+ Atk Choice Band Stonjourner Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 182-216 (54.4 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stonjourner Heat Crash (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 160-189 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
Finally, Stonjourner has access to Selfdestruct which is nice to gain momentum and put a check into revenge killing range to pave for a teammate's sweep. Here is the replay from when i used it on finals of Winter Open when it took 2 kills before dying a hero's death.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1291778352-fungx8xz3vwfbqerv1705b7l68gt8ifpw
Also support the Manectric and Marowak rises here but those were already done so yep

Bye :)

 

[Mirbro]

Gonna do some noms and add Pinchurchin to the list as czim mentioned in the Discord.

Rises

A+ to S
Pure splashability. Its movepool (rocks, memento, u-turn, future sight...) and its not-bad bulk make it, imo, the greatest Pokémon rn in the tier.

A- to A
As mentioned by czim , Skuntank is really good atm as a stallbreaker altogether with Vanilluxe but it has greater splashability. Beyond being immune to Toxic and resistance to Knock Off, Skuntank can help defogging entry hazards. A really good adding Pokémon to practically any team.

C+ to B+
As mentioned by daniYSB , Spiritomb right now is a good stall adding and a wincon for many teams. Its physical bulk altogether with a CroTomb set makes it practically the UU CroCune. Moreover, Spiritomb can abuse both Uxie and Cofagrigus, two out of three greatest Pokémon of the tier.

B+ to A
Great mixed breaker with SD Sucker Punch Leafstorm and Knock Off. It can also act as stallbreaker as after some SD there is nothing it can resist it (or practically nothing).

Drops

A to A- (at least)
I completely agree with czim . These two Pokémon were really good due to Sneasel and they also helped against other Pokémon banned now such as Omastar, Magmortar, etc. I can see some spots where they can still be good but now they have more severe competence for these roles.

A- to B+
Clefairy movepool is impressive as always. Rocker, Wish Passer, Knock Off spreader... However, many wallbreakers right now are for the physical part and we all know Clefairy is not that good there. It was amazing against Drampa and Magmortar but right now I think it will be used in few occasions or teams.

UR rises

UR to B
Pinchurchin bulk and entry hazards role are good for bulky balance or stall teams. Rising Voltage abusing teams due to Electric seed sets can be also scary if not well prepared. One of the best entry hazard Pokémon although it is so passive to be at A tier and it does not check a big amount of Pokémon currently.

UR to C
Good call there czim. I have always thought Ston is really good when CB

B to B+
OML. Finally it is used again in stall. Great Shiftry, Lycanroc, Kangaskhan and Sawk check. Regenerator is a broken ability and it has a good movepool (Knock Off, Toxic, Leech Seed, Synthesis, Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb...). There has to be a good reason why it was used in SS RU to check Zygarde-10% recently.

UR to C-
Great bulk + Rapid Spin + ID Body Press and now that Sneasel is gone and the number of great special attackers have decreased, Avalugg can see some light out of the cavern.

UR to C-
It has a good niche in stall with Stealth Rock, Intimidate and checking Frosmoth, Vanilluxe and Shiftry at some extent.

And that's it! Thanks for your attention

 

[Apagogie]

Ninetales C- > B-
I tried it a little bit with the Magmortar ban and I have been positively impressed by Ninetales. Pretty good damage input, great speed tier which is ideal against the offense match up and it stays reasonably bulky to get few set up opportunities against bulkier archetypes. Teams also tend to be a bit less prepared than before against fire spam, especially in using some physical bulky waters like qwilfish as fire check, which doesn't tank as well hits from our favorite fire fox. I'm amare the rise is a bit high but it's truly deserved in our context

Carbink B+ -> C
At the contrary, bans really didn't help Carbink. I already didn't like much this pokemon pre-ban because it was so passive than its only real utility was to lose turns against Drampa and Magmortar. Without them, there is simply not much reasons to use Carbink, its utility against other special breaks is at best questionable, despite being one of our best bet against thievul, losing against Magneton, Clawitzer, potentially specs Appletun truly sucks. It's not either a solid fire checks since Centiskorch, Rapidash and Ninetales all both have way to pressure it a little bit. It doesn't have the utility of a fairy type either, losing important match up against Sawk or Shiftry respectively. I think Carbink currently just lacks of useful utility outside of being a thievul chuck or a trick room setter, which is not a good playstyle. Once again, it's an important change but I feel like it reflects perfectly the viability of Carbink in the current metagame.

Lickilicky C -> C-
It was a bit better versus Magmortar than Audino but now it's gone it doesn't have many reasons to stay ranked honestly. I still keep it because I think it could find legit uses in some weird stalls but that's about it.

Mr Mime C- -> Unranked
Losing Drampa, Omastar, Vally-Dragon doesn't help Mime either. This has apparently an obscure niche of scarf HW in offense but I always found this mon pretty bad in my testings honestly to always remove it after some tests. Its damage input can be considered low in seeing what we have in the tier right now and the lack of pivot moves/bulk doesn't make easy to play even with a lot of support. Also, being outspeed AND weak to rotom scarf sucks. Don't think losing a slot for healing wish is good enough in our current metagame to stay ranked so bye-bye Mime.

Noctwol C -> Unranked
There are not many reasons to use Noctowl currently with the options we currently have in our tier, we simply have much better breakers or set up sweepers which are more consistent to slap a Noctowl in a team. I think every team built around Noctowl currently could be optimized in removing this bird out of the team and it's not a good look to stay ranked. Maybe I undersell it since we don't have many pokemons able to comfortably handle hurricane but it's honestly true for a lot of our special breakers at the moment which let me think it's arguable.

And something quickly about an other nomination:
Kingler
Kingler shouldn't drop. It was actually used successfully in Winter open grand final where it did an outstanding job in the battle. Czim was prepared to water spam with Silvally-Water but it simply couldn't afford taking too many hits and it eventually fainted. The game was from there in Landon favor and with an agility set up on a lucky toxic miss, Kingler was able to kill five last mons of the team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1291784186-6kvhbxzfm0ljokhwag14m7kioxzjf9kpw

More generally, except Poliwrath and Qwilfish as high ranked mon, no other mon is able to switch and tank decently Kingler hits. Its speed tier is good for a wallbreaker to threat considerably slow balance structures. With an agility up, its offense match up is even not so terrible considering only few mons could afford taking a hit. I would definitely keep it in B and maybe even rise it higher, why not?


Aaaand... that's it for now. I will maybe edit later if other noms come in mind but that should be good.

 

[gye5]

I want to nominate to A+. Why, it the best offensive water type, with adaptability even scarf sets hit really hard, also is very unpredictable wheter is a physical oriented, special or mix. 97 speed is great speed tier when the vallys are dangerous and checking the mighty vally ground even at 1+ speed when facing a flame charge variant, something that rotom will never be able to do, also checking the afromentioned one. Flip turn is nice because it makes sure that basculin is always pressuring the opponent. I have a replay of basculin cualities. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1301868981

 

[5gen]

New noms

Cramorant A- to B+
In my opinion, Cramorant has dipped in viability because of competition with Altaria and the influx on Electric-types. Altaria's higher bulk and access to Toxic make it a better pick than Cramorant a lot of the time because they allow Altaria to better check threats such as Centiskorch and Sawk and wear down balance/bulky offense teams (which are popular). The Volt Switch weakness is especially bad with how popular Rotom, Rotom-S, and Magneton and teams already kind of struggle with prepping for Volt Turn. Lastly,

Frosmoth A- to A
Frosmoth is simply a dominant and influential Pokemon. Frosmoth easily breaks down the few Pokemon that check it, has plenty of setup opportunities, and is incredibly easy to support. Magmortar's ban also buffed Frosmoth a fair bit. Not much to say here I think this is a simple nom.

Silvally C+ to B
Silvally is one of the better Choice Scarf users in the metagame thanks to its ability to revenge kill +1 Frosmoth and outspeed Choice Scarf Rotom and Sawk. Silvally's natural bulk is also appreciated for a revenge killer because it can act as a soft check against Frosmoth if healthy (i.e being able to risk switching into a QD if needed) and isn't as weak to priority users. In addition, I've been testing Work Up and have had decent success with it. Set is Work Up / Multi-Attack / Flamethrower / Grass Pledge silk scarf and 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Naive nature. With this, Silvally acts as a good balance breaker because it can nail Normal resists such as Rhydon, Palossand, Tangela, Ferroseed, and Eviolite Magneton while still threatening special walls like Clefairy and Audino. Unfortunately I don't have replays because I tend not to save games. Here are two teams with it.

 

[Jett]

Most the mons have already been nommed so here are a couple of mine that I think were left out:

A- -> A/A+
Kangaskhan is a phenomenal wallbreaker and revenge killer at the moment. However, unlike many common common wallbreakers and revenge killers she has solid enough bulk to switch into most attacks. Her base 90 Speed lets it outspeed notable special attackers such as Vanilluxe and Skuntank that have been on the rise. Her dual priority is extremely effective especially when paired with the abundance of solid Spikes setters in the metagame. Realistically she'll almost always be useful in games aside from when facing against a Cofragigus and Tangela.

B+ -> A-
I've always felt that Alcremie has been superior to Clefairy because it's more defensively sound overall, as it isn't reliant on Eviolite but also has better stats, while also not being super passive. Calm Mind and Double Dance sets are both proving to be effective options, as they cannot be shut down by Taunt wallbreakers not named Skunk on offensive teams but these sets tend to also do well into common stall teams. Overall, its just one of the more reliable bulky setup sweepers in the metagame.

 

[viet noa]

to A+
with a nice balance of decent bulk and great offensive prowess, kangaskhan already proves itself to statistically have the potential to be great in zu. however, its ability scrappy makes it almost guaranteed to get a solid amount of damage against most team builds. stab double edge hits like an absolute truck, and kangaskhan has an underrated ability to revenge kill thanks to fake out and sucker punch. with coverage moves such as earthquake as well, there are honestly very few pokémon that can shrug off hits from kangaskhan. for that reason, i view them as one of the defining offensive wallbreakers in zu right now.

to B+
look at the best pokémon in zu: uxie, cofagrigus, silvally-ghost. they all have the defensive capabilities to switch into and absorb hits from offensive pokémon. with that being said ... they all get absolutely obliterated by a stab specs dark pulse, ESPECIALLY if a stakeout boost is being considered. thievul’s unique ability to destroy switch-ins, and even pivot with parting shot, makes it one of the best specs users in zu. it can be hard to bring out thievul on some occasions, as its reliance on modest nature makes it slower. when it comes onto the field though, there’s nothing stopping its power.

edit:
to UR
i love eldegoss on paper, but in practice it’s not viable at all. it gets outclassed by other hazard removers, suffers from a terrible defensive typing, is extremely passive, and even gets outclassed as a cleric. it also doesn’t have u-turn or something of the like, so it forces its teammates to take damage, when it has to switch out against one of the dozens of eldegoss counters. this pokémon is a cleric, by the way.

 

[AstilCodex]

Just ensuring some real quick cuz not sure if they are done yet.

Rises:

A- to A+. One of the best mon in the tier, has the right coverage to bypass its checks just need to click them right once so it can CC through your team. I think it deserves the whole jump right to A+ as most answers are shaky like expecting it to lock into a resisted move or outspeeding it in case of CB. As stuff like Altaria or Garbodor get dunked by Knock/Edge and eq respectively they arent great against it.

B- to at least B+. Mon great. I think now that Magmortar is gone it has become even better as it can afford to run offensive sets freely. I've had success with Specs set and ofc my masterpice the sub set. It is also easy to play with and comfortable to switch into water types or taking neutral hits like a ghost Multi-attack. Its stab are only resisted by a few mons like ferroseed and apple acid is such a good move that lets it muscle through clefairy, audino and fat walls. And play rightfully is an effective stallbreaker as well even with the Mawile addition to the core.

Drops:

A+ to A. I know kay is gonna try to refute this as is life depends on it. So have fun there. I think cofagrigus has gotten easy to play around if we talk about the ID set. It usually struggles to setup against most special attackers and it can be easy to play forcing it to rest making it useless unless u have a cleric. Also it struggles against most ghost types as unboosted shadow ball still weak. As utility mon meaning not ID sets I think it doesn't deseve the A+ either.

And also regarding ho3n/S1n post. I disagree with the Ferroseed and Palossand drop. I think ferroseed got better with magmortar and drampa ban and Palossand walls both Lycanroc and Sawk better than any other mon in the tier and still in my opinion 2nd best rocker behind uxie. This both mon have key typing and utility and should stay on As. For the rest I agree with most of the noms. Thats it ty for reading n.n

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

The VR thread is now locked until council is finished voting. Stay tuned for a VR update in the next couple of days!

Additionally, we'd like to welcome Temporal Totodile to the newly established VR council! First and foremost, the VR council will consist of the regular council + members in the ZU community have shown a consistent interest and contributions to the VR and ZU metagame. Toto has been posting his well-informed nominations on the VR threads since June of last year, has contributed to the personal VR rankings thread, and haso ften engaged in VR discussions on discord / PS. He's a great candidate for the new system!

Another perk of the council VR is that we can now avoid ties in voting. Ties never had a good solution, so keeping the VR council at an odd number will finally avoid this problem. On that note, we'll be looking into expanding the VR council even further in future slates. Keep an eye out for more announcements like these.

I myself have a couple of last minute noms :3

UR > B: Mane was already nommed from UR but I believe it's becoming a bona fide addition to the ZU meta. And it's really one main perk: Lightning Rod. An Electric immunity is so vital in teambuilding rn with the dominance of VoltTurn and Rotom especially, but Electric immunity options are disproportionally lower / less viable than the abusers. While Mane isn't too special itself, it offers a key diversity for Volt Switch immunities that aren't Ground-types. It's also got a great Speed and decent coverage, and of course its a Volt Switch abuser itself. I would easily recommend Mane as an average option for a Choiced attacker to fill what is an essential role as an Electric immunity for teams looking to deviate from Silvally-Ground and Galarian Stunfisk.

C+ > B: Rain is doin great rn, and considering these two are pretty much staples on most renditions, they're deserving of a rise.

UR > C+: Like rain, sun too can catch teams off guard. I'm a little hesitant to say if it's on par or better than rain, but from what I've seen of it, Leafeon at the very least shouldn't be UR. Adamant is still faster than everything and LO Solar Blades destroy most of the VR; even some frailer resisted hits. It also has SD + Knock Off, so supporting itself isn't an issue. The current VR already has Shiftry + Egg as Chlorophyll sweepers, but these two don't offer Leafeon's natural bulk for setup opportunities. Plus, nothing is stopping sun teams from running Shiftry + Leafeon to wear down shared checks like Garbodor, Centiskorch, and Altaria so that the other may sweep.


5gen edit: Here is the VR slate link for public viewing

 

[5gen]

Hello everyone, here is the VR update! As always, here is the voting sheet.

Rises

Alcremie B+ to A-
Altaria B+ to A-
Appletun B- to B
Avalugg UR to C-
Beartic UR to C-
Bouffalant UR to C-
Butterfree C- to C+
Cinccino B+ to A-
Coalossal C to C+
Flapple B- to B
Frosmoth A- to A
Hattrem UR to C-
Kabutops C+ to B
Kangaskhan A- to A+
Kingler B to B+
Leafeon UR to C
Ludicolo C+ to B
Lycanroc A- to A+
Magneton B to B+
Manectric UR to C+
Marowak UR to C
Mawile UR to C
Morpeko C+ to B-
Ninetales C- to C+
Persian-A A to A+
Piloswine B+ to A
Pincurchin UR to C
Rotom A to A+
Rotom-S A- to A
Sawk A- to A
Shiftry B+ to A-
Silvally C+ to B
Silvally-Ground A- to A
Skuntank A- to A
Spiritomb C+ to B
Stonjourner UR to C+
Tangela B to B+
Thievul B- to B+
Thwackey B- to B
Trevenant C+ to B-
Uxie A+ to S
Wishiwashi A- to A

Drops

Accelgor B to B-
Carbink B+ to C
Clefairy A- to B+
Cofagrigus A+ to A
Cramorant A- to B+
Drednaw C- to UR
Gourgeist-XL C- to UR
Lickilicky C to UR
Miltank A to A-
Mr. Mime C- to UR
Noctowl C to C-
Orbeetle C to UR
Palossand A- to B+
Palpitoad C- to UR
Poliwrath A to B+
Rhydon A to B+
Silvally-Dark A- to B+
Silvally-Ghost A+ to A

Notable Changes
A+ to S
Uxie is now the only S rank. Nothing matches Uxie's capabilities as a Stealth Rock user and support Pokemon because of its incredible bulk, utility, ability to pivot, and check a wide range of Pokemon. While it is weak and not as centralizing as threats like Lycanroc and Rotom, Uxie is on a whole other dimension when it comes to how easy it is to fit onto teams and how effective it is in practice. Also, it can run screens, CM sets, weather, and so on, making it a highly dynamic Pokemon.

A- to A+
Kangaskhan dominates the current metagame on offensive/balance teams such as entry hazard stack and Volt Turn. Teams need to prepare for it and Kangaskan pressures offensive Pokemon so well thanks to its priority and amazing natural bulk.

A- to A+
Lycanroc is arguably the scariest Pokemon in the tier because of its raw power and high Speed. Only Palossand reliably checks Lycanroc since at +2, even physically bulky Pokemon such as Tangela, Gurdurr, Cofagrigus, and Poliwrath risk being 2HKOed. In addition, Choice Band gives Lycanroc immediate power and makes it a serious threat to any team off the bat.

A to A+
Anyone who has played ZU recently should know just how prevalent Alolan Persian is. If Uxie provides unmatched defensive support to teams, Persian-A provides unmatched offensive support. Fur Coat, base 115 Speed, Foul Play, and access to moves like Taunt, Knock Off, and Parting Shot make Persian-A an excellent pick for the high number of setup sweepers, Eviolite-reliant Pokemon, and anything in between really. Choice Scarf also adds another layer to the utility Persian-A can provide teams, checking relevant threats like Flame Charge Silvally formes and Choice Scarf Rotom.

B to A
Piloswine has been trending up as a Stealth Rock user because of its ability to check stuff like Rotom and Silvally-Ground and positive matchups against stuff like Garbador, Altaria, and Rotom-S. Moreover, Piloswine is difficult to switch into thanks to its excellent STABs.

A to A+
Rotom keeps on improving in ZU because it really has all the tools it needs and threatens top Pokemon like Uxie, Cofagrigus, Wishiwashi, Basculin, Silvally-Ghost, and so forth depending on its set. Rotom has fantastic set diversity and with Will-o-Wisp and Trick, can cripple and play around its checks. In addition, the metagame lacks adequate Volt Switch answers and Rotom is a large reason why Volt Turn teams are so good right now.

A- to A
Sawk is one of the best Choice Scarf users and is a menace with Choice Band. Simple rise.

Ground A- to A
Silvally-Ground is arguably the best Ground-type in the metagame and is incredibly difficult to switch into. Silvally-Ground offers much more than being a standalone sweeper because of its ability to soft check Pokemon like Lycanroc, Choice Scarf Rotom, and Skuntank and provide pivoting support for teammates.

A- to A
Skuntank takes advantage of much of the metagame and has an easy time setting up and threatening teams due to its typing, bulk, and Taunt/coverage. For example, Pokemon like Rotom, Uxie, Cofagrigus, Ferroseed, Clefairy, and so on give Skuntank setup opportunities. Furthermore, Skuntank's STABs and access to Fire Blast make it a pain for any team to check defensively.

A- to A
Wishiwashi's defensive capabilities are pretty valued in this meta. It compresses notable roles in one slot such as checking Water-types, soft checking Ground- and Rock-types, pivoting, and crippling teams with Toxic+Protect or absorbing status with Rest-Talk. Also, Wishiwashi is a wall that can still dent Pokemon with lower SpD like Cofagrigus, Gurdurr, and Miltank and pretty much most offensive Pokemon or Pokemon weak to Water-type.

-

A+ to A
Cofagrigus has trended down lately as more and more teams prepare for it and pack strong special attackers like Uxie, Choice Specs Basculin, Frosmoth, and Vanilluxe for example. Cofagrigus is also passive and easy to wear down, which makes it somewhat difficult to use in the current metahame as well.

Ghost A+ to A
Silvally-Ghost does not appreciate trends like Persian-A, Choice Scarf Rotom, Skuntank, Lycanroc, Tangela, Kangaskhan, and so on that pressure it and limit its ability to sweep. In addition, Miltank is worse in this metagame and Silvally-Ghost find itself with less and less setup opportunities.

A to A-
Miltank lost one of its main niches defensively when Sneasel was banned. While it is still a solid defensive Pokemon, the metagame pressures Miltank well via threats like Sawk and Skuntank, Knock Off, and entry hazard stack teams.

A to B+
Poliwrath also lost major niches when Sneasel and Omastar were banned. As such, it is kind of difficult to justify defensively and instead, offensive sets like Substitute Bulk Up, Choice Scarf, and Choice Band are used more. However, it doesn't help Poliwrath that Pokemon like Uxie, Qwilfish, Rotom, Tangela, and so on are highly popular.

A to B+
Rhydon's viability dropped because of increased competition from Piloswine and because it struggles against common Pokemon like Uxie, Tangela, Sawk, Silvally-Ground, Wishiwashi, Vanilluxe, etc. Basically, Rhydon has too many natural weaknesses and is inconsistent as a result.