Resource SS PU Viability Rankings

Just wanted to say that if you run Rest on Magneto you shit on Togedemaru and can PP stall it to death if it tries to 1 v 1 you.
 

Chloe

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NUPL Champion
VR Update | October 30th, 2022

hi! new vr update time. six of us voted on this one (pix sat it out). overall a pretty large update and one that should hopefully better suit the current metagame!! if you do have any questions, please feel free to hit me up in the pu discord, and i'd be happy to answer any you may have.

also big thank you to UberSkitty for the halloween themed thread banner. very cool!

rises
B to B+ // strong and potent breaker that has very limited effective defensive counterplay.
B- to B // decent pivot with solid coverage and an incredible speed tier. great at putting pressure on doublade early.
A to A+ // this was a close one with half of us voting s, and the other half voting a+. it is such an important and influential mon in the current metagame. it borderline warps the tier around it.
A+ to S // the big fat boring rock thingy that balance teams struggle to go without. there's not much more to be said about this mon at this point.
C to B- // terrain offense has seen a spike in usage, and effectiveness, and hitmonlee is one of the main abusers.
B- to B+ // really efficient breaker that has benefited immensely from the drop off of togedemaru, lanturn and the omnipresence of gigalith. limited reliable switchins.
UR to C // somewhat solid defensive mon used in scl that fulfils multiple niches. regenerator, tspikes, knock, haze, walls somewhat prevalent threats like centiskorch that are otherwise difficult to handle.
B to B+ // potent hyper offense lead with taunt, spikes and a good offensive typing. sd sets are also seeing usage and prominence.
A+ to S // bzz bzz, the best speed control in the tier while being a really solid splashable soft scrafty check. this mon is incredibly easy to throw on most teams. both qd and specs sets are potent and both have their place in the meta. in terms of the specs set alone, usual checks to ribombee really hate being hit with the switcheroo, and can force teams that rely on their steel type / gigalith a little too much to crumble. by far one of our best mons.
A- to A+ // our best removal & spike setter that has arisen as one of the premier mons in the tier over the last few months. sd sets are also incredibly good and see a fair bit of usage. really shouldn't be a huge shock to anyone who's been paying attention to pu over the last few months seeing the slasher move up this high.
UR to B- // solid sd sweeper, benefits from gigaslash meta, overall a surprisingly solid pick that has seen usage since early pupl.
NEW to B+ // this mon dropped like a month ago and we haven't rankedit yet :sob: but yea it's role compression as a steel type and removal, it can run sd sets somewhat efficiently. glad to have it back.
B to B+ // benefits extensively from the excess of gigalith sandslash cores that plague the metagame. helps a lot especially vs sd sandslash which hasn't got that many reliable answers. defensive grass type with incredible bulk that doesn't rely on synth to get its health back is just amazing really.
C to B+ // thwackey has risen due to the prominence of terrain based ho, but by itself it is also an effective breaker vs giga slash teams. having access to knock and turn is just super nice coverage too.
UR to C // shell smash sweeper that some people think is worth ranking. solid offensive fire type for HO builds that don't want to rely on zard. difficult to revenge.
B to A- // levi helps extensively vs offensive slasher, in general it helps vs doublade and has a favourable matchup against recent emerging trends.
B to B+ // probably just too low a drop to begin with. i'm high on offensive sets, with stabs and shadow ball it can pretty much get through most common mons right now fairly easily. defensive/utility sets are again decent even though they struggle with competition from eldegoss, and scrafty's current likeliness to run pjab.

drops
C to UR // this mon hasn't been good since before the huge mega shift that happened in december 2020, but fsr it stuck around this long. it's seen some sporadic usage since but nothing to justify c rank.
B- to C // decent stall mon but stall isn't great rn so lmao. i wouldn't ever run it on balance, and it definitely didn't appreciate vanilluxe leaving when it could act as a decent check to that using pressure.
S to A+ // with how prevalent gigalith is, in addition to other various meta trends, zard is not the pinnacle of the meta anymore. it's still an amazing mon, but it struggles breaking through defensive cores as easily as it has in the past.
B- to C // with zard's decline in viability and usage, it's even harder to justify using clefairy, which was a perfect wall to special sets previously. it also didn't appreciate scrafty's increased usage of pjab, when in the past it could act as a zard and bu scrafty check in one, and justify a usage slot.
C to UR // does not appreciate vanilluxe leaving, cannot spin vs doublade, walled by doublade which just sets up on it with ease.
A to A- // sandslash is usually a much better option for spike setting, still good but it has just fallen off a lot.
A to A- // struggles to break efficiently with doublade on so many teams. its wallbreaking prowess has fallen off substantially.
B to B- // weezing is the better poison, sandslash and ferro are both better spike setters, have trouble justifying using garbodor atm.
(S) B+ to B- // not as strong a breaker as of late, doesn't appreciate doublade's presence all that much.
C to UR // hasn't really ever seen usage this gen as long as i can remember. not sure why we persisted keeping it ranked just bc its theoretically removal that has good type matchup vs our setters. it is rarely ever worth it. at least now we can just say, "if you want removal with favourable gigalith mu use sandslash" and delete this sorry excuse of a mon from our vr.
B to B- // doesn't appreciate gigalith's ubiquitousness as it can't wall it and prevent sr from going up. also doesn't appreciate our premier spike setter always running knock.
B- to C // mediocre breaker, scarf sets could be cool but they haven't rly proven themselves.
A+ to A // doublade is a better spinbocker and it is defensively a lot more difficult to justify than it was a few months ago, back when it virtually had a grip on the meta. specs sets have also fallen off substantially in favour of other breakers.
C to UR // not a great breaker, rain teams don't exist. its HO lead sets are arguably much worse than lycanroc / archeops / qwilfish / froslass / etc, and this niche alone doesn't warrant it to be ranked.
C to UR // i've always thought kadabra is a cool mon, it's got a good speed tier, it's got magic guard which is super fire in our hazard heavy metagame, it's got pretty solid coverage especially considering that toge isn't used rn. but that just isn't enough to justify itself over other psychic type breakers like mesprit and guno unfortunately.
B to B- // lanturn has been somewhat middling for a while and this is just reflective of that. doesn't appreciate zard's recent "fall from grace" either.
B- to C // it's still sorta cool but when sand is up this often recovering health, which it relies on a fair bit, is a major issue.
B to B- // there are much better breakers, magmortar isn't the best right now.
C to UR // was a solid vanilluxe answer, and a solid tsareena answer before that. now it's just a middling mon you can sometimes fit on stall, and stall isn't that great right now. can still be used, but doesn't justify a ranking.
B- to C // mediocre bee thing that just doesn't accomplish what you want it to.
B to C // very difficult to justify ever running. even rune is a better ground type. i'd unrank it if i could.
B+ to C // perrserker rly fell off hard. doublade and sandslash being such prominent meta staples has just hindered it to the point of no return. even though it can run stuff like cb crunch to 2hko doublade, there are just MUCH better breakers that have a much easier time, that aren't forced to run an otherwise mediocre move on a mon already struggling to fit moveslots.
B- to C // cb sets don't rly like the current meta all that much. defensive sets aren't that great. i personally liked running bulk up drain punch rest poli at some point to deal with bu scrafty while dealing with specs jelli but that niche's justifiability has obviously not continued into the recent metagame.
A to B // what a drop. doublade dropping and becoming such an important meta staple just ruined it really. it really cannot do anything versus that mon and allows it to set up with ease.
B to C // not great in our current metagame, doublade revenges easily, gigalith takes nothing, sandslash walls one of its stabs. difficult to justify overall.
A to B+ // sandslash is a better ground type that i would run 9 times out of 10. coil sets don't appreciate eldegoss prevalence.
C to UR // trash.
C to UR // not the worst thing ever but it has such a tiny niche that it can't really warrant keeping its rank. i like this mon though.
A to B+ // toge is nowhere near as good as it used to be due to its inability to do anything against doublade. it is not one of our stronger steel types anymore unfortunately.
B+ to B // not as strong a breaker as of late, doesn't appreciate doublade's presence all that much.

as always i look forward to seeing your future noms. i see a few i'd make already so i'll probably make a nom post in the near future. ty for reading!
 
VR Update | October 30th, 2022

hi! new vr update time. six of us voted on this one (pix sat it out). overall a pretty large update and one that should hopefully better suit the current metagame!! if you do have any questions, please feel free to hit me up in the pu discord, and i'd be happy to answer any you may have.

also big thank you to UberSkitty for the halloween themed thread banner. very cool!

rises
B to B+ // strong and potent breaker that has very limited effective defensive counterplay.
B- to B // decent pivot with solid coverage and an incredible speed tier. great at putting pressure on doublade early.
A to A+ // this was a close one with half of us voting s, and the other half voting a+. it is such an important and influential mon in the current metagame. it borderline warps the tier around it.
A+ to S // the big fat boring rock thingy that balance teams struggle to go without. there's not much more to be said about this mon at this point.
C to B- // terrain offense has seen a spike in usage, and effectiveness, and hitmonlee is one of the main abusers.
B- to B+ // really efficient breaker that has benefited immensely from the drop off of togedemaru, lanturn and the omnipresence of gigalith. limited reliable switchins.
UR to C // somewhat solid defensive mon used in scl that fulfils multiple niches. regenerator, tspikes, knock, haze, walls somewhat prevalent threats like centiskorch that are otherwise difficult to handle.
B to B+ // potent hyper offense lead with taunt, spikes and a good offensive typing. sd sets are also seeing usage and prominence.
A+ to S // bzz bzz, the best speed control in the tier while being a really solid splashable soft scrafty check. this mon is incredibly easy to throw on most teams. both qd and specs sets are potent and both have their place in the meta. in terms of the specs set alone, usual checks to ribombee really hate being hit with the switcheroo, and can force teams that rely on their steel type / gigalith a little too much to crumble. by far one of our best mons.
A- to A+ // our best removal & spike setter that has arisen as one of the premier mons in the tier over the last few months. sd sets are also incredibly good and see a fair bit of usage. really shouldn't be a huge shock to anyone who's been paying attention to pu over the last few months seeing the slasher move up this high.
UR to B- // solid sd sweeper, benefits from gigaslash meta, overall a surprisingly solid pick that has seen usage since early pupl.
NEW to B+ // this mon dropped like a month ago and we haven't rankedit yet :sob: but yea it's role compression as a steel type and removal, it can run sd sets somewhat efficiently. glad to have it back.
B to B+ // benefits extensively from the excess of gigalith sandslash cores that plague the metagame. helps a lot especially vs sd sandslash which hasn't got that many reliable answers. defensive grass type with incredible bulk that doesn't rely on synth to get its health back is just amazing really.
C to B+ // thwackey has risen due to the prominence of terrain based ho, but by itself it is also an effective breaker vs giga slash teams. having access to knock and turn is just super nice coverage too.
UR to C // shell smash sweeper that some people think is worth ranking. solid offensive fire type for HO builds that don't want to rely on zard. difficult to revenge.
B to A- // levi helps extensively vs offensive slasher, in general it helps vs doublade and has a favourable matchup against recent emerging trends.
B to B+ // probably just too low a drop to begin with. i'm high on offensive sets, with stabs and shadow ball it can pretty much get through most common mons right now fairly easily. defensive/utility sets are again decent even though they struggle with competition from eldegoss, and scrafty's current likeliness to run pjab.

drops
C to UR // this mon hasn't been good since before the huge mega shift that happened in december 2020, but fsr it stuck around this long. it's seen some sporadic usage since but nothing to justify c rank.
B- to C // decent stall mon but stall isn't great rn so lmao. i wouldn't ever run it on balance, and it definitely didn't appreciate vanilluxe leaving when it could act as a decent check to that using pressure.
S to A+ // with how prevalent gigalith is, in addition to other various meta trends, zard is not the pinnacle of the meta anymore. it's still an amazing mon, but it struggles breaking through defensive cores as easily as it has in the past.
B- to C // with zard's decline in viability and usage, it's even harder to justify using clefairy, which was a perfect wall to special sets previously. it also didn't appreciate scrafty's increased usage of pjab, when in the past it could act as a zard and bu scrafty check in one, and justify a usage slot.
C to UR // does not appreciate vanilluxe leaving, cannot spin vs doublade, walled by doublade which just sets up on it with ease.
A to A- // sandslash is usually a much better option for spike setting, still good but it has just fallen off a lot.
A to A- // struggles to break efficiently with doublade on so many teams. its wallbreaking prowess has fallen off substantially.
B to B- // weezing is the better poison, sandslash and ferro are both better spike setters, have trouble justifying using garbodor atm.
(S) B+ to B- // not as strong a breaker as of late, doesn't appreciate doublade's presence all that much.
C to UR // hasn't really ever seen usage this gen as long as i can remember. not sure why we persisted keeping it ranked just bc its theoretically removal that has good type matchup vs our setters. it is rarely ever worth it. at least now we can just say, "if you want removal with favourable gigalith mu use sandslash" and delete this sorry excuse of a mon from our vr.
B to B- // doesn't appreciate gigalith's ubiquitousness as it can't wall it and prevent sr from going up. also doesn't appreciate our premier spike setter always running knock.
B- to C // mediocre breaker, scarf sets could be cool but they haven't rly proven themselves.
A+ to A // doublade is a better spinbocker and it is defensively a lot more difficult to justify than it was a few months ago, back when it virtually had a grip on the meta. specs sets have also fallen off substantially in favour of other breakers.
C to UR // not a great breaker, rain teams don't exist. its HO lead sets are arguably much worse than lycanroc / archeops / qwilfish / froslass / etc, and this niche alone doesn't warrant it to be ranked.
C to UR // i've always thought kadabra is a cool mon, it's got a good speed tier, it's got magic guard which is super fire in our hazard heavy metagame, it's got pretty solid coverage especially considering that toge isn't used rn. but that just isn't enough to justify itself over other psychic type breakers like mesprit and guno unfortunately.
B to B- // lanturn has been somewhat middling for a while and this is just reflective of that. doesn't appreciate zard's recent "fall from grace" either.
B- to C // it's still sorta cool but when sand is up this often recovering health, which it relies on a fair bit, is a major issue.
B to B- // there are much better breakers, magmortar isn't the best right now.
C to UR // was a solid vanilluxe answer, and a solid tsareena answer before that. now it's just a middling mon you can sometimes fit on stall, and stall isn't that great right now. can still be used, but doesn't justify a ranking.
B- to C // mediocre bee thing that just doesn't accomplish what you want it to.
B to C // very difficult to justify ever running. even rune is a better ground type. i'd unrank it if i could.
B+ to C // perrserker rly fell off hard. doublade and sandslash being such prominent meta staples has just hindered it to the point of no return. even though it can run stuff like cb crunch to 2hko doublade, there are just MUCH better breakers that have a much easier time, that aren't forced to run an otherwise mediocre move on a mon already struggling to fit moveslots.
B- to C // cb sets don't rly like the current meta all that much. defensive sets aren't that great. i personally liked running bulk up drain punch rest poli at some point to deal with bu scrafty while dealing with specs jelli but that niche's justifiability has obviously not continued into the recent metagame.
A to B // what a drop. doublade dropping and becoming such an important meta staple just ruined it really. it really cannot do anything versus that mon and allows it to set up with ease.
B to C // not great in our current metagame, doublade revenges easily, gigalith takes nothing, sandslash walls one of its stabs. difficult to justify overall.
A to B+ // sandslash is a better ground type that i would run 9 times out of 10. coil sets don't appreciate eldegoss prevalence.
C to UR // trash.
C to UR // not the worst thing ever but it has such a tiny niche that it can't really warrant keeping its rank. i like this mon though.
A to B+ // toge is nowhere near as good as it used to be due to its inability to do anything against doublade. it is not one of our stronger steel types anymore unfortunately.
B+ to B // not as strong a breaker as of late, doesn't appreciate doublade's presence all that much.

as always i look forward to seeing your future noms. i see a few i'd make already so i'll probably make a nom post in the near future. ty for reading!
Disagree with lanturn, counters the rising magneton, qwilfish and checks jelli and zard (still important). Personally think he shoulda stayed B but I do understand the drop
 

UberSkitty

Assist Skitty was too broken for NDUbers
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
hihi I'm here to make a nom for the first time in over a year so idr how to make one but here goes nothing
CloudyAltaria.png

Altaria C -> B/B-
(disclaimer: I originally thought it was UR, so I got more replays/other stuff than need be)

The main reason I started using :Altaria: was cuz I wanted another way to deal with :Doublade: defensively. :Quagsire: is the most obvious answer for Doublade, with Unaware and good physical bulk, but it can't exactly fit on every team. You've also got random mons like :Charizard:, :Scrafty:, :Qwilfish:, :Magneton:, etc. that all have their uses against it, but they can be easily be worn down and/or played around.

I don't remember at all how it came to my mind, but this is where Altaria comes in. Solid bulk, reliable recovery in Roost, and even Natural Cure to further it's longevity. But most importantly, for dealing with Doublade, Haze. This is the set I've been using:

:altaria:
Altaria @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 44 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

While I know it can run other sets with Defog, Heal Bell, or Fire Spin+Perish Song, this is the set I believe makes it stand out of C-rank. It was originally made specifically for handling Doublade, hence Flamethrower, which is a 3HKO. It's also been proven useful to have for various other setup mons without the best coverage for it. Coil :Centiskorch:, and DD :Charizard: (the latter of which I would later learn nobody actually uses). With Toxic, Altaria can just spam Roost+Haze on these mons if they refuse to switch out. Haze can also be used in a desperate attempt to stop a set up mon like :Scrafty: or :gallade:, even if it doesn't 1v1 it. Altaria is also simply a nice check to some random mons like :Eldegoss:, :togedemaru:, and :Magmortar:. Also Hurricane can be a thing over Toxic, but I personally prefer the latter.
Before Swords Dance:
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Altaria: 52-63 (14.6 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Altaria: 91-108 (25.7 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Altaria: 103-123 (29 - 34.7%) -- 7.1% chance to 3HKO
After Swords Dance:
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Altaria: 103-123 (29 - 34.7%) -- 7.1% chance to 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Altaria: 181-214 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Altaria: 207-244 (58.4 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(you're likely not going to have to take the latter two thanks to Haze, but I figured I'd add them anyway.)
Flamethrower:
0 SpA Altaria Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 114-136 (35.4 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
The 16 Speed is just to reach the common 200 Speed. The 44 SpD lets it avoid the 2HKO from :Charizard:'s Hurricane and Specs :Jellicent:'s Shadow Ball. The rest is just thrown into its physical bulk.

Altaria's typing is another reason to use it over :Quagsire:. Not to say Water-Ground is bad by any means, Altaria simply offers alternative. I especially like it alongside the :gigalith::sandslash: core, since it handles Grass and Water mons for them. Altaria also has higher special bulk than Altaria and that nice Natural Cure that allows it to better face status infictors like Weezing and opposing Quagsire.

The other notable mon that gives Altaria competition is :charizard:. While mostly used more offensively, AKA not the same role, :charizard: is still the top Flying mon in the tier. It's faster, harder to switch in on, and also is a large offensive threat to :doublade:. However, I'd say :Altaria:'s higher bulk and access to Haze still merits reasons to consider. Also not being 4x weak to SR if knocked off is nice too. That being said...

:Altaria: definitely has its large flaws. With stuff like :Gallade: and :Tangela: having access to Knock Off, Altaria might end up losing its HDB if it's your only answer. And, at least with my set, you do still have to worry about hazard removal and a cleric if needed. But the most notable problem with Altaria is how common answers to it are. While nothing enjoys being Toxiced, :Ribombee:, :sneasel:, :archeops:, etc. can easily abuse Altaria to set up or simply get a powerful attack off.

Overall, while :altaria: isn't hard to naturally check with top threats, I think it has its merits above its competition and stands above the niches and gimmicks that are C-rank thanks to:
-being a good :Doublade: counter
-solid typing and bulk allowing it to check a bunch of other stuff
-Natural Cure furthering its longevity
-Haze which allows it to stop potential sweeps
-the humorous fact that Altaria can spam Roost against a Toxiced Gigalith since Rock Blast isn't SE anymore
-i probably missed something B)

And if still not convinced, here are some of those replays showing :Altaria: in action: (there was intended to be more but it was when ladder was being funky so they didn't save)
Also figured I'd just stick the team from the last two videos here too cuz I liked it :v
Altaria Sand (pokepast.es)

BTW shouldn't :Claydol: be mentioned somewhere in the VR since it is technically PU and not (PU)? (People told me it sucks but I still think there should be something like a D-Rank if just for this)
 
Last edited:
hihi I'm here to make a nom for the first time in over a year so idr how to make one but here goes nothing
View attachment 466334
Altaria C -> B/B-
(disclaimer: I originally thought it was UR, so I got more replays/other stuff than need be)

The main reason I started using :Altaria: was cuz I wanted another way to deal with :Doublade: defensively. :Quagsire: is the most obvious answer for Doublade, with Unaware and good physical bulk, but it can't exactly fit on every team. You've also got random mons like :Charizard:, :Scrafty:, :Qwilfish:, :Magneton:, etc. that all have their uses against it, but they can be easily be worn down and/or played around.

I don't remember at all how it came to my mind, but this is where Altaria comes in. Solid bulk, reliable recovery in Roost, and even Natural Cure to further it's longevity. But most importantly, for dealing with Doublade, Haze. This is the set I've been using:

:altaria:
Altaria @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 44 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

No, not a Defogger. This set was originally made specifically for handling Doublade, hence Flamethrower, which is a 3HKO. It's also been proven useful to have for various other setup mons without the best coverage for it. Coil :Centiskorch:, and DD :Charizard: (the latter of which I would later learn nobody actually uses). With Toxic, Altaria can just spam Roost+Haze on these mons if they refuse to switch out. Haze can also be used in a desperate attempt to stop a set up mon like :Scrafty: or :gallade:, even if it doesn't 1v1 it. Altaria is also simply a nice check to some random mons like :Eldegoss:, :togedemaru:, and :Magmortar:.
Before Swords Dance:
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Altaria: 52-63 (14.6 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Altaria: 91-108 (25.7 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Altaria: 103-123 (29 - 34.7%) -- 7.1% chance to 3HKO
After Swords Dance:
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Altaria: 103-123 (29 - 34.7%) -- 7.1% chance to 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Altaria: 181-214 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Altaria: 207-244 (58.4 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(you're likely not going to have to take the latter two thanks to Haze, but I figured I'd add them anyway.)
Flamethrower:
0 SpA Altaria Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 114-136 (35.4 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
The 16 Speed is just to reach the common 200 Speed. The 44 SpD lets it avoid the 2HKO from :Charizard:'s Hurricane and Specs :Jellicent:'s Shadow Ball. The rest is just thrown into its physical bulk.

Altaria's typing is another reason to use it over :Quagsire:. Not to say Water-Ground is bad by any means, Altaria simply offers alternative. I especially like it alongside the :gigalith::sandslash: core, since it handles Grass and Water mons for them. Altaria also has higher special bulk than Altaria and that nice Natural Cure that allows it to better face status infictors like Weezing and opposing Quagsire.

The other notable mon that gives Altaria competition is :charizard:. While mostly used more offensively, AKA not the same role, :charizard: is still the top Flying mon in the tier. It's faster, harder to switch in on, and also is a large offensive threat to :doublade:. However, I'd say :Altaria:'s higher bulk and access to Haze still merits reasons to consider. Also not being 4x weak to SR if knocked off is nice too. That being said...

:Altaria: definitely has its large flaws. With stuff like :Gallade: and :Tangela: having access to Knock Off, Altaria might end up losing its HDB if it's your only answer. And, at least with my set, you do still have to worry about hazard removal and a cleric if needed. But the most notable problem with Altaria is how common answers to it are. While nothing enjoys being Toxiced, :Ribombee:, :sneasel:, :archeops:, etc. can easily abuse Altaria to set up or simply get a powerful attack off.

Overall, while :altaria: isn't hard to naturally check with top threats, I think it has its merits above its competition and stands above the niches and gimmicks that are C-rank thanks to:
-being a good :Doublade: counter
-solid typing and bulk allowing it to check a bunch of other stuff
-Natural Cure furthering its longevity
-Haze which allows it to stop potential sweeps
-the humorous fact that Altaria can spam Roost against a Toxiced Gigalith since Rock Blast isn't SE anymore
-i probably missed something B)

And if still not convinced, here are some of those replays showing :Altaria: in action: (there was intended to be more but it was when ladder was being funky so they didn't save)
Also figured I'd just stick the team from the last two videos here too cuz I liked it :v
Altaria Sand (pokepast.es)

BTW shouldn't :Claydol: be in the VR since it is technically PU and not (PU)? I'm guessing this is just an overlook and I don't have to make a whole post about it, so I'd say put it in B/B-.
this is kind of off-topic but I like how the first replay is of me being an idiot lol.
 

sugar ovens

blood inside
is a Top Tiering Contributor
i dont really feel like i want to try to get new replays, so ig ill just post whatever is saved there thats not just me getting 6-0d by bellossom.

:gourgeist: Gourgeist-XL UR -> B-
This was unranked when Guzzlord was in the tier and itemless toge and stuff was popular. Guzz is gone now, itemless toge is also not that common, so.. Tangela outclasses it as a defensive wall and trev as a banded breaker, but tank sets are still perfectly usable, sometimes you do want a fat mon that can actually do damage and (actual) spinblocking & priority is nice.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1698246868
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8pu-659068
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1692263237-aq77aiy2uhrvo40w97m4p4n2dks6bt5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1677583714-zuxes0lc0xjjue9uqha3licskmaz68mpw


:marowak: Marowak UR -> C
Sub 3 atks or 4atks marowak is a potent wallbreaker. Ground defensive typing means it can switch in against most of the tier's rockers, plus many u turn users like bee or guno can bring it in easily. Somewhat difficult to justify using over broken Sandslash - i am nomming it to C, right - but it has a different role. Breaks through pretty much anything with ease, including eldegoss and quag, only reliable one-time answer is tangela but that gets knocked and dies next time. Murders Gigalith teams, solid against other fat teams.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1708389567-1q080sqi8hk7xw28myt7nzgccxsenv0pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1707650650
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1705917689
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1703641064
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1702898102
 

UberSkitty

Assist Skitty was too broken for NDUbers
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
big edit time, now with some changes and less reading!

:eldegoss:
A- -> A: It's an amazing wall, especially for Sandslash. Also great Rapid Spinner.
I think a lotta players would agree with this. Edelgoss, as I like to accidentally call it, freely switches in on so many physical attackers, most notably Gigalith+Sandslash. While its coverage is just bad, its utility movepool is amazing between Aromatherapy, Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, etc. Not to mention Regenerator, which allows you to not have to depend on Synthesis for recovery in a Sand meta. It has plenty of special walls to make a great defensive core with. Also a pretty great Rapid Spinner.
:jolteon:B- -> B: Fast af and Specs Volt Switch is amazing. The only common Electric immunity is Sandslash, who takes big damage from Hyper Voice, since Togedemaru usually just runs Iron Barbs.
I find that Jolteon, specifically Choice Specs, can easily put in a lot of work. This is a meta where teams often lack Electric immunity, if they don't have Sandslash, allowing Jolteon to just spam Volt Switch. With the main other mons that use Volt Switch being Magneton and the rare Vikavolt, Jolteon's Speed makes it more than just a niche pick over them. That Speed also makes it one of three mons able to naturally outspeed Ribombee, alongside the much less threatening Accelgor and Ninjask. Not to say Jolteon should be your main answer for Ribombee. Overall Jolteon's Speed, alongside access to Volt Switch and its above-average Special Attack, make it much more justifiable to use over the rest of the B- mons.
:frosmoth::regirock:B -> B-: Relatively outclassed, especially Regirock. Used to have Trevenant here too, but have been using CB more and more.
These mons just have too much competition. Just stuff like use Ribombee, Doublade, or Gigalith, respectively. They all have some notable niche tho, except maybe Regirock kek, hence why I'm not saying UR them or anything.
B+'s qualifications should be raised in relation to B. Various of these mons could easily be put in B, being not as relevant in the current tier and having too much competition. The ones I found to be notable are:
:Qwilfish:The mon is forced to go down an offensive route since Weezing is so much better rn
:uxie:Very underwhelming defensively without any recovery, I'd much rather use Mesprit for the offensive presence
A few B+ mons: B+ -> B
I'm borderline on these, but I feel like B+ is majorly a mix of mons that are easy glue mons to add to a team or have a definitive and unique roles. That being said, there are just some mons don't do either, at least not to the same degree as the others. The ones that caught my eye were Qwilfish, Uxie, and the Silvally-Ghost. While fine mons on their own that can put in work in the right circumstances, I wouldn't say they live up to the B+ standards set by the rest of the rank. This is only furthered by the current meta, in which there are often similar but more beneficial options. That or I was just bothered by the ratio of mons in B+ to mons in B, who knows. shrug emoji
C-rank is a mess rn. It just seems like a giant blob of mons, many of which could easily be UR imo. I admittedly don't have experience with a lotta them, but do we really need 4 Ground SR setters in there? On top of that, I think C+/C- should be added. Even if a bunch of mons were to be taken out, some mons would still be notably better than others, and it's a long jump between B- and C. C+ would also be a good spot for stuff like Abomasnow and Regirock.
A bunch of C mons: C -> UR
I haven't used most of these mons and neither have you. I think this list is has a bunch random mons with one small niche role that could hypothetically be usable. Like I said, I haven't used most of these mons, so I might not have the best knowledge on all these mons, but a handful could easily be taken out and nobody would care/notice. While I know C isn't meant to suggest great mons, the qualifications should definitely be raised. Or at least make C+ and C- so it's not just a giant blob of questionable mons.

also i still think claydol should be mentioned somewhere dont @ me
 
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With circuit coming to a close and the last vr slate coming up I wanted to make my own nominations before this thread is closed! B is way too crowded right now and a decent number of unmons are still in C so I want to try and clean that up!

Rises
:mareanie: C -> A- The best tspiker in a metagame where tspikes are incredibly dominant due to the best hazard control being grounded and a lack of grounded poisons
:eldegoss: A- -> A/A+ I don't love using it but can't deny the presence it has in the meta, especially now that lo slash usage has fallen off so much. Great spinner, great ability, great typing in a tier where grasses are super important, just a super meta defining mon that i'd be comfortable having on the same tier as doublade and slash
:silvally:
B+ -> A Really appreciates scrafty being gone as a lot of teams are going around without a ghost resist now. Tears holes into balance, reverse sweeps offense and spin blocks on hazard teams. Super good rn and well deserving of A
:silvally:
B+ -> A- Thought this mon was a fad at first but it's actually surprisingly solid. Work up sets break well, SD is annoying to deal with, offensive defog can be a nice pivot on offensive teams, and the steel typing is invaluable for keeping bee in check. Also enjoys the massive decline in jelli and zard usage
:tangela: B+ -> A- An amazing glue grass type that walls nearly the entire physical meta. Offensive sets popping up recently are also strong
:trevenant: B -> B+ Dual stab is terrifying to switch into and it gets even better with Scrafty gone. Also seeing some success on grassy terrain teams with grassy glide recently. Could even see this going to A-
:vikavolt: B -> B+/A- B was always too low for this. Really difficult for bulkier builds to deal with and gigalith struggles to check it long term. Bulky enough to be able to at least trade into offensive builds. Just a menace to deal with in the builder and in game
:haunter: C -> B- Good typing makes it easy to get in and pressures Gigalith with trick choice item or black sludge. Seen a bit of tour success and good on builds that try to overwhelm gig
:thievul: C -> B Not sure where to rank this since it's super dependent on thwackey but it's obviously better than C and has been doing well in tour for months now
:swoobat: C -> B Same as above
:coalossal: C -> B- Seen good success on grassy terrain teams where its big drawbacks in a 4x ground weakness and no recovery are mitigated
:comfey: C -> B I think the offensive LO set is quite good because it pressures gigaslash balance and gives you an auto-win into grassy terrain. I mainly think it's good for the terrifying taunt set on grassy terrain though
:hitmonlee: B- -> B Should join its other grassy terrain friends in B
:ninjask: C -> B- Probably shouldn't have dropped with the last slate, that one's my fault for nomming it down x_x could see it going B but I think B- is fine
:sableye: UR -> C/B- Really annoying into gigaslash builds and even better with scrafty gone. Just an annoying mon to play against and definitely more deserving of being ranked than some of these other mons
:gourgeist: (xl) UR -> B Grass/Ghost typing is amazing and super geist has the bulk and power to back it up along with crazy dual stabs that make it a menace to switch into. Amazing slash check and arguably the best spin-blocker in the tier

Drops
:charizard: A+ -> A/A- It just struggles a lot into gigalith builds and it's hard to fit alongside gigalith which is like 70% of teams. Nearly all doublades are invested to eat flamethrower now as well so it doesn't even do an amazing job at that. Still a good defensive presence and it can for sure pressure with tox and dual stabs, especially with less gigalith's running rest now, but the opportunity cost is high and really don't think it's an A+ or A mon anymore
:quagsire: A -> A- idk how this ever ended up in A it's clunky and hard to fit on teams. Good (into most matchups) when you get a working build with it but that's easier said than done
:jellicent: A -> A- Jelli just seems hard to fit on teams these days. You never run into teams without a grass type and toxic is everywhere. Definitely a good pokemon and it can be really annoying into some teams but it just seems a level below wishi, ghostvally and cheops in A (yes i'm projecting)
:gallade: A- -> B+ I doubt this one goes though but I think this mon is just kinda bad in a meta dominated by doublade and bee. It can't be a replacement for scrafty because scrafty actually had a defensive presence and i've seen a lot of people try gallade again recently just to have it suck
:mesprit: B+ -> B thought it should've dropped during the previous slate and I stand by that. scrafty going opens up psychics a bit more but it's still just a mediocre mon that would rather be a guno on most teams.
:uxie: B+ -> B/B- I haven't seen uxie do anything in a while. There was some mention of stored power sets popping off with scrafty gone but i haven't seen that happen yet (nor do i expect to in the future). Still has its niche but it's not a B+ mon
:garbodor: B- -> C ss pu games just go on for too long for garbodor to do its job properly as a mon that takes a few hits and sets some spikes then dies. weezing and mareanie are just better choices as poisons with weezing beating slash and mareanie providing longevity
:gourgeist: (small) B- -> C The utility this pokemon has is very (small)
:hattrem: B- -> C Sorry chloe this pokemon is bad
:magmortar: B- -> C Just use Zard. I know it technically has a role of beating gigalith but it doesn't really do that very well and if you really wanted to you could run focus blast zard to achieve the same result. It does have a niche, but that niche is better suited for C tier
:accelgor: C -> UR froslass is a better spikes lead
:articuno: C -> UR I tried to get this unranked last slate but didn't succeed. In that time i don't remember seeing it even once in a serious game. Just use altaria if you want a bulky stall bird
:cofagrigus: C -> UR Iron defense sets never do anything and it has no longevity as a defensive mon
:ludicolo: C -> UR Tried to get this one down as well but was told it was good as a self rain setter on offense but genuinely when has this set ever been used in a competitive setting in the past like 4 months
:lurantis: C -> UR I love lurantis but I think gigalith's presence is soooooo crippling for it that it simply has 0 justification over goss whims and tang on a team
:palossand: C -> UR Eldegoss food and just not a pokemon worth using over our better rockers
:rapidash-galar: C -> UR stored power set is the only justification i could see for this mon being here and i haven't seen that do anything in months
:silvally:
C -> UR Just use steel
:turtonator: C -> UR turt had his time but offense has evolved to use better stuff and left turt in the dust
 
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UberSkitty

Assist Skitty was too broken for NDUbers
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
i was gonna edit my last post after binge watching a bunch of tour battles since i dont wanna spam, but shane told me to make a new post so blame him. Tho already made a bunch of edits to my last nom post over time despite it being less than 2 weeks old.

Grassy Terrain has seen a large spike in usage, so I think it justifies a bunch of rises. Honestly could see them going higher in the future if this wasn't the last update.
:thwackey: B+ -> A-: With grassy terrain teams becoming very common, this mon is the only setter. It also has a great movepool, most notably U-turn for coming in to set up terrain and switch out.
:thievul: C -> B+: Great grassy terrain abuser, has the coverage to easily sweep many teams, especially those relying on Gigalith as their special wall.
:hitmonlee: B- -> B+: Another great grassy terrain abuser. Also Reckless HJK with double priority is decent outside of terrain.
:comfey: C -> B+: On top of being another grassy terrain abuser, its priority makes it solid outside of grassy terrain teams.
:swoobat: C -> B+/B: Iffy on whether this is as great as the other abusers, but still solid nonetheless.
:pincurchin: UR -> C Alongside grassy terrain, electric terrain has also been seeing some usage. Not as great as Thwackey as a setter by far since it struggles with keeping up momentum, but still needed on said electric terrain teams.

Tho outside of terrain, still wanna bring up:
Rises:
:altaria: C -> B-: Just a bump for my past nom, now also good for Thwackey and Hitmonlee without Stone Edge ;)
:whimsicott:
B+ -> A-: Definitely not the first thing that comes to mind as a large threat to put in A-, even I'm still kinda borderline. But it manages to find itself on a lot of teams, and can randomly put in a surprising amount work depending on the set. Can also be a solid alternative to Ribombee or Eldegoss when teambuilding.
:shiftry:
B -> B+: On top of benefitting from Scrafty's ban, it's just a solid mon in general. On top of its Defog set, I've also found it to be a decent Scarf mon, even if it's on the slower end.
:audino:
B+ -> A-: A decent Silvally-Ghost check, as well as one of the few decent ghost resists in general. Also Wish and Heal Bell are nice in a meta with so many bulky mons without reliable recovery.
:absol: C -> B-: Benefits from Scrafty being gone, and even with Sneasel still existing, it has the niche of no SR weakness and much higher Attack, making it easy to spam stuff like Knock Off and a much stronger priority in Sucker Punch.

UR Rises: (If Shane doesn't need replays neither do I!!!)
:silvally:(reg) UR -> B-: Only Silvally able to hold an item, specifically Choice Scarf. Also no-setback base 120 Normal move is great and stab Explosion is fun to use. Big 4mss tho.
:malamar:
UR -> C: Contrary makes it a nice setup mon, notably since it doesn't have to waste a turn to use a move like SD or CM and therefore gets much more opportunities. Also has a few set options, like Restalk and 3 Attacks+Protect.

Drops:
:cinccino: B -> B-: A great mon in theory, especially being a Normal mon, but it has so many common checks that often lead to it being ultimately underwhelming.
:exeggutor: B- -> C: Too much competition and is 4x weak to U-turn
:rotom:
C -> UR: I haven't seen this mon at all, there's simply better options for pretty much all of its possible sets.
:runerigus: C ->UR: Just a discount SR setter compared to the rest. Also a discount bulky Ghost.
:rhydon:
C -> UR: Tap loves this mon a lot fsr, and it can definitely be a fun Grass lure, but I'd rather be using one of the various better SR setters. Not even a great Voltblocker, and grassy terrain isn't helping its case. Honestly the only reason I'm not sure about it going to UR is cuz Tap got into my head.

Nom Add-Ons: (There are some noms above I wanted to give my input on)
:ninjask: Deserves higher than B-, aka B, thanks to its solid matchup against grassy terrain, with Protect+Speed Boost and super-effective STAB.
:vikavolt: Definitely deserves A-. This thing is virtually unwalled, and the combo of Volt Switch+Roost makes it even harder to reliably check. Has become a large threat in the meta and has seen a lot of usage in tours.
:charizard:
Should only drop to A, not A-. Gigalith has definitely taken its toll on Charizard, especially with Charizard dealing with 4mss. But Charizard is still a staple mon, a great glue option, a good Doublade check, etc.
:uxie: B-, Not B. Nobody is using it as a bulky SR setter, Mesprit is honestly a better choice at this point. Its main use seems to be some weird CM+Kee Berry+Stored Power set, which is p much a discount Comfey. It can be satisfying to pull off, but that's a big if, and Uxie is otherwise just a waste of a slot.
:haunter: I could see this mon going all the way to B tbh, since there's p much no offensive Poison mons in the meta despite the relevance of Grass and Fairy mons. Also fun utility moves.

Disagreed Noms:
:mesprit:
Strongly disagree with it lowering. While it might not shine in one specific area, it's really easy to fit on teams with its versatile movepool and sets, even if they are generic like bulky SR and Scarf. It's also by far the best Healing Wish user, making it pair well with a lotta mons (and be generally better than Uxie).
:marowak: Might have some niches over Sandslash, but people aren't going to actually use it. I'd say it falls under the bridge of mons in C that may have a niche but not enough to justify staying ranked.
:mareanie:
Could see it rising a little, but def not all the way to A-.
:rapidash-galar: Should be kept ranked as a niche grassy terrain abuser.
:trevenant::audino::tangela: These were actually nommed to drop by me in my last post, which part of me wants to delete at this point kek, but after seeing/using them more I can see their appeal.

Overall, I'd say the meta has taken a big turn since the last update, justifying the plethora of changes. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a handful of unexplored mons that could prove viable, like different Silvally forms, Dark-types, and Normal-types. I've been messing around with Banded Raichu, so we'll see how that goes. Also more people should post here.
 
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VR Update | January 30th, 2023 | FINAL!!
Hey! With SV PU on the horizon we decided it's time for our FINAL major VR update for SS PU! There may be small changes made in the future, as metagame developments in the tournament scene are possible, but you can at least expect this to be the last big shift. Seven of us voted, with termi deciding to sit this one out. If you've got any questions the pu discord is usually the best place to go as you'll get a more or less immediate response

rises
:altaria: C to B- // has had a lot of tour success recently on stall builds due to great bulk, defog and heal bell support
:coalossal: C to B- // is a great choice on grassy terrain teams which have emerged as a strong force in the meta
:comfey: C to B- // its threatening calm mind + taunt set on grassy terrain teams warrants a rise
:eldegoss: A- to A // regenerator, rapid spin and a plethora of support moves make it the dominant grass type of the tier in a meta where grass types are very important
:gourgeist:(XL) UR to C // is bulky enough to spinblock well into sandslash and eldegoss while being very threatening with its dual stab. not being able to run knock off along side it is a huge crutch though
:haunter: C to B- // spin blocks eldegoss and can cripple gigalith with trick sets. has been seeing occasional tour use over the last few months
:hitmonlee: B- to B // one of the strongest threats on grassy terrain and deserves a rise as a result
:mareanie: C to B- // toxic spikes setter that has regenerator, good support moves and can absorb opposing toxic spikes
:ninjask: C to B- // serves as great speed control while still being able to pressure teams with set up and u-turn
:sableye: UR to B- // an overlooked ghost that spinblocks really well into sandslash and can deal with a decent number of the tier's physical attackers like doublade and gallade. generally just annoying to face and deserves to be ranked
:silvally:
B+ to A // scrafty leaving opens up huge opportunity for silvally ghost as most teams don't run a dark resist anymore. incredibly threatening pokemon
:swoobat: C to B // one of the premier grassy terrain abusers and deserving of a rise as a result
:tangela: B+ to A- // incredible physical bulk gives tangela a niche over eldegoss and that niche is strong enough to get it into a- thanks to how many strong physical threats we have
:thievul: C to B // another great grassy terrain abuser that needs a rise
:vikavolt: B to B+ // a massive pain for bulkier teams to face, especially the bulkier set where heavy duty boots and roost allow it to come in multiple times a game. the ability to freely run energy ball due to the decline in togedemaru is helpful as well
:whimsicott: B+ to A- // grass types are very good right now and whimsicott provides that alongside great speed control. it can also serve as a fighting resist now as it doesn't have to worry about answering scrafty

drops
:charizard: A+ to A // gigalith dominance makes it difficult to justify charizard in a+. still a great pokemon but it usually finds itself on more bulky offensive builds for its defensive abilities these days rather than for its offense
:cinccino: B to B- // can do some work into teams that don't have doublade but it struggles too much into one of the tier's best pokemon to stay in b
:cofagrigus: C to UR // there are better options for spin blocking and toxic spike setting and its iron defense set simply isn't threatening enough
:exeggutor: B- to C // still has a slight niche as a specs breaker but it doesn't love doublade's presence and it can't really abuse a lot of defensive pokemon as it dislikes being in on sandslash due to knock off / leech life and can't come in on our main waters in jellicent and wishiwashi due to shadow ball and u-turn
:frosmoth: B to B- // its inability to break gigalith requires a team to be built around it which is especially crippling when it already only fits on very specialised teams
:gallade: A- to B+ // gallade simply doesn't break well enough to justify its complete lack of defensive presence in most games
:garbodor: B- to C // as a setter garbodor matchups up very poorly into our best removal in sandslash, making it difficult to justify
:gourgeist:(S) B- to C // grass / ghost is an amazing typing but this drops in large part due to gourgeist-xl emerging as an often better gourgeist form due to the speed difference not mattering a lot and the difference in bulk and attack being very important
:hattrem: B- to C // struggles to keep hazards off against all our rockers (gigalith, aggron, archeops) and our main spiker sandslash
:jellicent: A to A- // jelli can be hard to fit on teams these days as it doesn't check a crazy amount anymore and every team has a grass type meaning it's a lot less likely to just sit there and blob, as well as less likely to break with specs sets
:ludicolo: C to UR // rain is terrible and ludi as a self setter hasn't been seen in ages
:lurantis: C to UR // too difficult to justify when it's slow to get going and can't consistently defog into gigalith
:magmortar: B- to C // barely better than charizard as a breaker while being slower with very little defensive utility
:mesprit: B+ to B // somewhat outclassed by articuno-galar as a future sight user and struggles a lot with 4mss when considering all the things it needs to be able to hit, meaning it can be great into some matchups and useless into others
:palossand: C to UR // outclassed as a rocker
:quagsire: A to A- // very clunky to fit on teams and scrafty leaving removes one of its main responsibilities
:rapidash-galar: C to UR // there are much better terrain abusers like swoobat, hitmonlee and thievul
:regirock: B to B- // the meta is moving more and more away from regirock as a rocker with doublade still being everywher and grass types only getting more relevant
:silvally:
C to UR // pretty outclassed by silvally-steel
:turtonator: C to UR // was a niche pick on offensive builds for a while but those builds have evolved to use less limited breakers
:uxie: B+ to B- // is only relevant for its bulky calm mind set, but that hasn't been good for a while and its seen very little tour use or exploration as a result

this generation has been a lot of fun and we're very grateful to everyone who has contributed throughout it to get us this far. thanks again for all the support and i'm looking forward to seeing what sv pu brings us!
 

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