Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[GaryGaryGary]

Thank you Crown Tundra for bringing back my favorite Ground type, Nidoking(and Nidoqueen but King is best boi!) When the world needs an Stealth Rocker, a dude who can take on Pex and Celesteela, and have massive coverage we look towards...

...Lando-T, Garchomp, and Zygarde lol.

But if you don’t like the majority of those mons you can rely on Nidoking tho.

You’ll never be safe around me!
Nidoking @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs : 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-Earth Power
-Sludge Wave
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
-Ice Beam

This set covers every defensive mon in OU. Earth Power shuts down Zeraora, Regieleki, Tran, and Pex with moderate resistance. Sludge wave claps Clef and in return can do nothing in return. Flamethrower threatens Steel and Bug Types barring Heatran, and Ice Beam lets you hit your Ground type counters such as Hippo, Lando-T, Zygarde, and Chomps for reasonable to one shot damage. He may not be good as of now, but once the meta settles down, I can see him becoming a very good pick.

Anyways, my new opinions of the current meta.

Pheromosa: Not as busted as I thought, but still a high threat. It lost access to the nuking potential of Z moves, but with the newly buffed Rapid Spin, physical Ice type move in Triple Axel, and the STAB and super spammable CC, it doesn’t need Z moves that much. It is still the fastest U turn user and severely cripples check and counters with it. Definitely needs a suspect test.

Naganadel: It was also nerfed do to lack of Z moves, but it’s still stinkin’ scary! Nasty Plot raises its stellar SpA and boosts it. Beast Boost can allow it to snowball out of control if Magearna or Heatran are out of the way and Poison/Dragon is a great Defensive/Offensive type to have. I can see it being quickbanned.

Landorus-I: Lando-T is annoying due to sheer versatility, but its Incarnate form is a whole new level of UGHH! Life Orb Sheer Force Earth Power is hard to switch into and its amazing speed and Special Attack makes it scary to deal with. Frustrating af and can’t wait to see it go. >:(

 

[Finchinator]

Some thoughts on the new meta:

View attachment 285378
In addition to all the reasons people have stated above, it's a mythical. Ban it.

View attachment 285379
It's a box legend, ban it - although honestly specially-based KB was a bigger threat, and that's purely because of Earth Power, whereas so far I've only seen one physical KB running that so it doesn't get stopgapped by steel types.

View attachment 285380
Great to see Swampert making a comeback - it has one of the best defensive typings in the game and it's comforting to know that it completely walls View attachment 285383 so hard that I've seen one running... Swift of all moves. Flip Turn is a nice addition to its movepool, but I find a utility set with Scald, Toxic, Roar, Stealth Rock to be slightly more versatile as it can do more against most Pokemon and prevent the opponent gaining too much momentum, especially Trick Room teams where you can really have some fun disrupting those.

Speaking of...

View attachment 285384
Although its movepool is pretty underwhelming, it does actually have some versatility to it. It can trap, set up dual screens (and does a really good job of it being the new speed king) as well as clear hazards, and it has volt switch to pivot as well. Some say its broken as a wallbreaker, but I don't really see any point running it as such, as any ground type is all the opponent needs to stop it.

View attachment 285381
Part of a box legend trio. Ban it! But seriously this thing doesn't have enough reliable checks to stay in the meta, or at least that's how I'm seeing it right now. And even if it does, it abuses the ever-living shit out of RNG while also having plenty of bulk to avoid its sub being broken, so it has even less viable checks. Not fun.

We do not ban things because they are “mythical” pokemon ever. It solely has to do with their effectiveness in the metagame itself

 

[Empress Mobile]

What? If Mew uses Transform, it can no longer use Imprison. You’ve got to Imprison first, which makes Roost the clearly superior option.

You're right my bad, but again it doesn't matter as it will use Transform immediately after

 

[musiquepkmn]

You're right my bad, but again it doesn't matter as it will use Transform immediately after

If the pokemon is both low health and slower than mew, mew will use imprison before it can roost off the damage dealt by other mons. This matters if the opposing mew is so low health that a struggle would kill it. You'd rather be able to recover off the damage so you can kill it with struggle, but if you're using roost you would lose your latias too. Also matter if for some reason the mew has less than 4 pp left, whcih means that if you had more health you could struggle more and then the opposing mew would be forced to struggle. Niche scenarios but theres no reason to choose one over the other except for this, so might as well use recover if this situation does end up occurring. Also Recover is cooler than Roost so use Recover.

Edit: Not like it's ever going to happen, you just don't want to get into this situation and ending up needing recover while you curse yourself for losing the match because of roost. It's like using Psychic Fangs with Vish: You are realistically not going to be clicking Psychic Fangs versus Pex ever, but if there's a 1v1 scenario where your last mon is Vish and their last mon is Pex, you are going to curse yourself for just running Rend and Sleep Talk.

 

[Negative Charge]

It's truly crazy how little any of the Ground types in the tier care about the electric types, it has probably been the single biggest change in my playstyle compared to Gen 7 is not thinking about being sniped by HP Ice

 

[M4RK5M4N]

I was thinking, is there anything good that like actually counters Specs Regieleki other than Ground Types? A lot of Scarfed Pokemon aren't able to outspeed Regieleki.

 

[BitBitio]

I was thinking, is there anything good that like actually counters Specs Regieleki other than Ground Types? A lot of Scarfed Pokemon aren't able to outspeed Regieleki.

Scarf Zeraora would if it existed. Other than that, nah you pretty much need a ground to deal with Eleki consistently outside of priority from the likes of Rillaboom, Genesect, or Dragonite.

 

[bb skarm]

Thoughts on this set:

Moltres-Galar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Fiery Wrath
- Hurricane
- Agility

Moltres so far hasn't really had an easy time in the meta, but I really want to make it work so I tried this set out (not my set obv). While it's not the best, it's pretty solid at times. Double dance is a fun set generally for most Pokemon but I especially like it on galarian moltres because of its really nice bulk. It sets up on a decent portion of the meta (Landorus is a kind of big one bc it can't 2hko from full without focus blast) and makes for a decent cleaner considering a lot of the meta isn't really all that bulky. Normally double dance depends on the archetype you face, like stall you would NP and offense you would agility, but right now I'm really just clicking agility against a weakened team and having weird success.

Moltres also does kind of well with double dance because of Berserk. You can come in against a foe if you're chipped, use Agility, and then if they knock you into range they're dealing with a +1 SpA +2 Speed Hurricane user in their face. It's a little niche and I don't think Berserk really makes this set incredible or anything but its a nice touch.

What's really cool is not only does Moltres with a Modest nature actually hit surprisingly hard against an offensive team (2hkoing landorus and 97% of the time tornadus-t with just fiery wrath) but its STABs have really good coverage. In terms of Pokemon getting used in OU, it's actually missing out on just five (Klefki, Tyranitar, Magearna, Bisharp, Tapu Koko). Defensive teams don't really exist right now, but I have a lot of confidence that once they start to pop up again Nasty Plot will also be viable on this set. Just running the numbers, a +2 Moltres with Hurricane can near OHKO a Clefable, do a solid 80% to Pex, and OHKO Hippo (not much a defensive team mon but still bulky). Its STABs are high powered which definitely helps it out a bit.

Anyways, I realize this isn't some gamebreaking set. Moltres just is clearly the bird struggling the most and I wanted to suggest a way to make it have some effectiveness. Would love to know if anyone else has had success with this mon.

 

[Red Raven]

1. What are you most excited to use in the new metagame?

Galarian Zapdos and scale shot Garchomp definitely. I just wanted to toy around with Galarian Zapdos because it had a cool design but holy crap it surpassed my expectations. It's basically a better version of Staraptor. Maybe it's defiant will cause Landorus Therian to drop in viability since it would be a repeat of the relationship between Bisharp and Lando in gen six

2. What pre-dlc mons are expected to get hit the hardest?

Not really gonna comment on this since I still have to research this since I literally just started playing gen eight two days ago. On a wild guess, I'd say Magearna now that it's old friends Landorus and Garchomp are back although it probably isn't hit that hard

3. What pre-dlc mons are expected to benefit the most or see a rise in viability?

Same with the second question. Not gonna make that much of a comment

4. How do you feel about the new Galarian Formes, Regis, and horse legendaries?

The Galarian birds are sick. I'm really curious if Articuno and Zapdos would cause the king of ou last gen, Landorus, to drop in viability since I don't think those two getting a free boost is something you'd want. I don't really care about the regis but I am deeply puzzled. How in the world does something that looks like a statue faster than an alien whose form adapted to speed. Design wise, I love the horses. If it wasn't for their major flaws I probably would be using them. Then again, I did just start two days ago so maybe I can find a use for them sometime soon

5. What do you believe will be overhyped and what will die down after being given the "new toy" treatment?

The electric Regi I guess. I saw on facebook many were hyped about it but it really has a disappointing movepool. It's just bait for ground types

6. What do you think will be some of the strongest offensive threats in the metagame?

Many of the returning ones, Garchomp is probably gonna be scary since it can either go for a sweep or wall break. The Tapus are still as annoying as ever but at least defog removes their terrain. Many ground types will be even more annoying due to no hidden power. Blaziken is also gonna be a giant pain in the ass since it probably got the single best fighting type move along with Pheromosa. Really hoping they get banned already. Pheromosa is an even bigger pain in the ass because it got rapid spin, making it almost impossible to revenge kill without priority. As of right now, the single biggest pest for me is Genesect. Really. What is up with artificial pokemon and their absurd movepool

7. What do you think will be some of the strongest defensive options in the metagame?

Celesteela I guess. It's still a reliable wall along with the likes of Ferrothorn and Toxapex

8. How do you think existing pokemon will adjust? For example, will Toxapex change from a physically defensive set to a specially defensive set, and will Dragapult go from a mixed attacker to a purely special one?

I think Pex will be specially defensive. That ghost horse is so annoying and can easily sweep entire teams without ghost resist or physical priority. Just slap on a choice scarf and spam shadow ball. Pex can wall it endlessly with specially defensive investment with the help of haze. With Garchomp now getting a pseudo dragon dance, maybe Dragapult will even go choice scarf just to keep it in check. I'd say specially as before the drop in defense from scale shot, I hightly doubt darts kills Chomp from full hp. Also, everyone's favorite intimidator is back so physical sets have more trouble. Salamence also got a new toy in dual wingbeat, finally a flying physical stab that isn't fly. I'd guess a special scarf Dragapult would be used sometime soon just to revenge kill these monsters

9. What is your favorite returning mon?

Garchomp. I am so salty it didn't get dragon dance that I keep wishing that every time my draco meteor misses, it ends up hitting gamefreak's hq. I swear if it still doesn't get dragon dance by the time sinnoh remakes come I'm gonna get one of those ouija boards or whatever it's called and put a curse on gamefreak. Other than Chomp, Tornadus and the ultra beasts. I always loved the beasts

 

[Pissog]

Scarf Zeraora would if it existed

Does zeraora really need to be faster than regieleki in order for it to counter it? I think Volt Absorb is more than enough. I still wouldn't play Zeraora in this meta doe

 

[petergreek2002]

Now that some days have past and after I played several matches and saw how do the newcomers fare, I will write my personal verdicts on some Pokemon that have impressed me.

Genesect: Easily the best Pokemon of the meta right now and pretty much the only thing that really deserves a quickban. The Choice Band set is very good, especially if Download works in your way and can consistently maintain momentum and revenge kill no matter what. I also used a mixed Choice Scarf set that has also worked quite well, but Band has more instant firepower. In general, however, I have seen multiple surprise sets from Genesect, since it has an amazing movepool, such as Thunderbolt, Flamethrower and Blaze Kick as uncommon but cool options. Its versatility and consistency are just too much for OU in my opinion.

Spectrier: OK, if that Pokemon had actual coverage outside of Mud Shot, it would have been an easy Uber. Even with its painfully shallow movepool, the ghost horse has proven to be a terrifying wincon once its counters are gone. The fact that it can snowball out of control in the late game with Moxie's Sp Att version and even Nasty Plot to rack up even more boosts, as well as even Taunt to mess around defensive threats and set up on the pink blobs, make it a very scary threat that everyone needs to prepare for. Another set outside of Nasty Plot sets I have noticed is a Scarf set which revenge kills Regieleki and can become an even more dangerous wincon. Just imagine if that beast had a better movepool.

Regieleki: Arguably the biggest enigma in OU right now, with mixed opinions among users, some claiming it would be the next Dracovish, which is impossible for me, and others claiming it will fall out of favour and become a UUBL knight. To be fair, it is not broken at all, but it is actually really fun to use under the right circumstances and it can also induce some creativity within teambuilding to find interesting lures to remove Ground-types so that Eleki can clean up the rest of the team. Also, lead sets are quite good, since with THAT speed, it is guaranteed to set at least one Screen, not to mention that Prankster users are extremely rare (what happened to Grimmsnarl?). and it is one of the very few Electric-types to learn Rapid Spin. Lastly, it is obvious to say what this thing does under Terrain with Rising Voltage, no more stuff needed to say. To summarize, I don't know where will the electric golem end up, but it could be a good OU pick in the future and a wincon to prepare for.

Swampert: The biggest surprise of the meta, as Flip Turn removed its biggest flaw, that being the loss of momentum against offensive teams. Also,, it is a slow Flip Turn, which ensures more safe switches for dangerous threats. Thanks to this nice addition, Swampert compresses the roles of a defensive pivot and a rocker, and also it has some decent offensive presence thanks to the always handy STAB Earthquake. I remember saying that Swampert will instantly fall out of favour in OU, and then Game Freak gave it Flip Turn. Now, I expect Swampert to actually settle in OU in the future thanks to the role compression it provides alongside its obvious pros it has since its debut in ADV.

Galarian Zapdos: Easily the best of the birds, I did not expect it to become such a good Pokemon. Fighting/Flying is an amazing typing, we saw it from Hawlucha in USUM and now we have a Pokemon with the same typing and more immediate firepower. Its STAB moves alongside stuff like Blaze Kick allow it to hit lots of threats for big damage and open defensive holes. Speaking of defensive holes, Thunderous Kick is a move I really like and prefer it over Close Combat since it does not reduce defenses and can also open defensive gaps in various threats. Even Toxapex can lose to that thing after a drop from Thunderous Kick which can lead to a powerful blow from Brave Bird. And lastly, it can become a great Intimidate and Defog deterrent due to fear of triggering Defiant and losing a mon by a boosted attack. Overall, Galarian Zapdos is going to be a very serious threat when the meta settles.

Dracozolt: The only Pokemon from pre-DLC2 I am going to speak about here. With the release of Sand Rush, Dracozolt has changed from what was a fringe pick with Dracovish-like offensive potential but serious consistency issues into a Pokemon that can put serious pressure when facing a sand team. While it is not the new Dracovish and nowhere close as broken due to Electric being easier to handle than Water, its Bolt Beak hits very hard and it also has some good coverage to pair with, such as Earthquake which easily dispatches Heatran and STAB Outrage which hits Ground-types hard. Its offensive potential is clear and people will slowly realize that it could become a decent OU pick finally.

Latios: And finally, a threat that not many people speak about, but can become a terror to face. Latios is back and improved, with its feared STAB moves now covered properly with Mystical Fire and Aura Sphere, which work perfectly alongside it. While it faces competition from Dragapult, I have to say its firepower with Specs gives me personally a reason to use it, and it has been succesful for me. Draco Meteor can hurt even less bulky Steel-types and Psyshock can easily dispatch stuff like the blobs and Sp. Def Clefable. Mystical Fire is always handy, while Aura Sphere can make the Heatran matchup easier if you don't want to repeatedly use Draco Meteor and lose PP. Many people sleep on Latios in my opinion and seem to not be very prepared for it, but in the future, it would become a very serious threat to take account.

 

[MidnightReaper]

Pheromosa + Regieleki

​

I have been having an absolute blast with these two lately, running Volt-Turn with a new kind of surprise factor while also providing crucial team support via screens ala Regieleki. Pheromosa has a hard time getting in due to its abysmal bulk, but with the proper prediction (aka the easily predictable ground-switch in for Regieleki) you can get Pheromosa on the field for free. Here are the two main sets that I've been using together in this combination. The pressure these two exert together should not be overlooked.

Pheromosa @ Expert Belt / Life Orb (haven't decided which one I like better yet)
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Beam
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Lunge / Throat Chop / Rapid Spin (dependent on your team's needs)

Ice Beam is the main tool of choice here, and it OHKOs Lando-I, Lando-T, and chunks a good number of other ground Pokemon that can switch into Regieleki with no issue. A lot of the time people will just leave their ground mon in because they forget that Pheromosa has Ice Beam, or underestimate the damage it can put out. U-Turn provides the crucial momentum and hits like a truck coming off of Pheromosa's attack. High Jump Kick handles Pokemon like Heatran, Glastrier (who is egregiously underrated right now), Tyranitar, etc). The last slot is a toss-up based on your team's specific needs; Lunge can provide some offensive pressure, but is situational. Throat Chop is a nasty surprise for the Ghost-laden meta and my current preferred choice. Rapid Spin also provides hazard control and also gives a way for Pheromosa to outspeed opposing Regieleki if it gets a Spin on the switch.

Regieleki @ Light Clay
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Cage
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Volt Switch

Set up Screens, Volt out, Cage In, easily simple. Pheromosa is there to support this Pokemon specifically while this mon cleans particular threats on your opponent's team. Not much more to say on that.

 

[Kutscher]

Pheromosa + Regieleki
View attachment 285480

​

I have been having an absolute blast with these two lately, running Volt-Turn with a new kind of surprise factor while also providing crucial team support via screens ala Regieleki. Pheromosa has a hard time getting in due to its abysmal bulk, but with the proper prediction (aka the easily predictable ground-switch in for Regieleki) you can get Pheromosa on the field for free. Here are the two main sets that I've been using together in this combination. The pressure these two exert together should not be overlooked.

Pheromosa @ Expert Belt / Life Orb (haven't decided which one I like better yet)
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Beam
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Lunge / Throat Chop / Rapid Spin (dependent on your team's needs)

Ice Beam is the main tool of choice here, and it OHKOs Lando-I, Lando-T, and chunks a good number of other ground Pokemon that can switch into Regieleki with no issue. A lot of the time people will just leave their ground mon in because they forget that Pheromosa has Ice Beam, or underestimate the damage it can put out. U-Turn provides the crucial momentum and hits like a truck coming off of Pheromosa's attack. High Jump Kick handles Pokemon like Heatran, Glastrier (who is egregiously underrated right now), Tyranitar, etc). The last slot is a toss-up based on your team's specific needs; Lunge can provide some offensive pressure, but is situational. Throat Chop is a nasty surprise for the Ghost-laden meta and my current preferred choice. Rapid Spin also provides hazard control and also gives a way for Pheromosa to outspeed opposing Regieleki if it gets a Spin on the switch.

Regieleki @ Light Clay
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Cage
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Volt Switch

Set up Screens, Volt out, Cage In, easily simple. Pheromosa is there to support this Pokemon specifically while this mon cleans particular threats on your opponent's team. Not much more to say on that.

A bit of theorymon here but I guess specs pheromosa would be a cool lure to things like hippodown, swampert and gastrodon

 

[MidnightReaper]

A bit of theorymon here but I guess specs pheromosa would be a cool lure to things like hippodown, swampert and gastrodon

I was thinking about Specs, but I found that keeping Pheromosa's ability to switch moves is better than Ice Beam having that extra power. Which is why I've been leaning more towards Life Orb / Expert Belt.

4 SpA Life Orb Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 291-343 (69.2 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 222-263 (54.9 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 263-309 (61.7 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Specs would honestly be overkill while also being too limiting and not worth it in my eyes

 

[G-Luke]

Scarf Zeraora would if it existed. Other than that, nah you pretty much need a ground to deal with Eleki consistently outside of priority from the likes of Rillaboom, Genesect, or Dragonite.

U can just use regular Zeraora and easily beat Specs Regi. No need for Choice Scarf.

 

[MidnightReaper]

Alright don't laugh, but I absolutely HAD to find a use for Calyrex in OU because I love his design so much. As I posted in the Calyrex thread, I found some moderate success with this set and it isn't outclassed by Celebi in this one regard.

Trick Room Setter with Encore

Calyrex @ Room Service
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Leech Seed / Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
- Encore
- Trick
​

Thanks to Calyrex having lower speed, access to Encore and the ability to use the item Room Service, Calyrex can actually become an acceptably specially bulky Trick Room setter. The icing on the cake for this Pokemon is having access to Encore which allows it to take care of set-up sweepers who would underestimate Calyrex's stats, attempt to set up on it, then get locked into Encore after Caly sets up Trick Room. Trick is to snatch items since after Trick Room you'll have an open slot. I've found using Leech Seed is a better option than having a STAB attacking move, but if that's your deal that's your deal. Calyrex you'll be switching out for one of your slower Trick Room mons. The reason we're going fully special bulk wise is to try to handle all the Ghost / Fire / Dark / Ice special moves flying around the tier right now. Don't even bother trying to compensate for 4x Bug / U-Turn weakness, Calyrex won't survive it.

 

[pkmnthebest]

Thoughts on this set:

View attachment 285463
Moltres-Galar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Fiery Wrath
- Hurricane
- Agility

Moltres so far hasn't really had an easy time in the meta, but I really want to make it work so I tried this set out (not my set obv). While it's not the best, it's pretty solid at times. Double dance is a fun set generally for most Pokemon but I especially like it on galarian moltres because of its really nice bulk. It sets up on a decent portion of the meta (Landorus is a kind of big one bc it can't 2hko from full without focus blast) and makes for a decent cleaner considering a lot of the meta isn't really all that bulky. Normally double dance depends on the archetype you face, like stall you would NP and offense you would agility, but right now I'm really just clicking agility against a weakened team and having weird success.

Moltres also does kind of well with double dance because of Berserk. You can come in against a foe if you're chipped, use Agility, and then if they knock you into range they're dealing with a +1 SpA +2 Speed Hurricane user in their face. It's a little niche and I don't think Berserk really makes this set incredible or anything but its a nice touch.

What's really cool is not only does Moltres with a Modest nature actually hit surprisingly hard against an offensive team (2hkoing landorus and 97% of the time tornadus-t with just fiery wrath) but its STABs have really good coverage. In terms of Pokemon getting used in OU, it's actually missing out on just five (Klefki, Tyranitar, Magearna, Bisharp, Tapu Koko). Defensive teams don't really exist right now, but I have a lot of confidence that once they start to pop up again Nasty Plot will also be viable on this set. Just running the numbers, a +2 Moltres with Hurricane can near OHKO a Clefable, do a solid 80% to Pex, and OHKO Hippo (not much a defensive team mon but still bulky). Its STABs are high powered which definitely helps it out a bit.

Anyways, I realize this isn't some gamebreaking set. Moltres just is clearly the bird struggling the most and I wanted to find a way to make it have some effectiveness. Would love to know if anyone else has had success with this mon.

Galarian moltres will be a trash mon with that set vs defensive teams once the meta settles and stall rises up.
Unaware clefable will be a thing on stall teams especially now that it gets softboiled, goltres can't touch it because of its mediocre special attack (without a boosting item) if clef invests in sp. Def a bit and Hurricane is an unreliable STAB, other mons viable on stall can stop it without much troubles.
I don't know why gamefreak gave a mediocre special attack to galarian moltres, look wise it seemed the most offensive oriented mon between the three birds.
Vs offense there are better pokemon that can threaten this archetype without wasting a turn of set up.
It will be still usable, but i really wished that it was a threat in OU, sometimes I have the impression that game freak doesn't give absolutely a fuck about competitive at all.

 

[Schpoonman]

Finch, would you or another member of the council be willing to share some of your thoughts on why some of the really egregious threats like Kyube and Genesect were dropped all at once and not more slowly retested?

 

[TCTphantom]

Swampert is awesome in this meta. Honestly it fills a niche similar to Lando T, where it kind of just tanks a hit and gets momentum while setting up rocks. I have been having a lot of success with the Flip Turn/EQ/Rocks set, although I flip back and forth on whether to run Ice coverage or Toxic. Both have done well for me in this meta. I also like to run enough speed evs to outspeed 0 Spe Magearna in case I need to panic EQ. But perhaps the best thing about Swampert is how easy it is to cover its weaknesses. It's special bulk is mediocre, but you can have something that can stomach a special hit or two. Fitting a grass type switch in (in this meta not as needed) is pretty good too. Overall, one of the best utility mons in the tier right now.

Once again, Scarf Cinderace is a godsend in this meta. Revenge kill Kyube, Naga, Genesect, the rare Blaziken, it is so good right now. The only time this thing let me down was when it missed a Pyro Ball against a Magearna, but out of the close to three dozen games I have used this thing in, it is honestly in my opinion the best Scarfer in the tier that is not Genesect.

 

[bb skarm]

Galarian moltres will be a trash mon with that set vs defensive teams once the meta settles and stall rises up.
Unaware clefable will be a thing on stall teams especially now that it gets softboiled, goltres can't touch it because of its mediocre special attack (without a boosting item) if clef invests in sp. Def a bit and Hurricane is an unreliable STAB, other mons viable on stall can stop it without much troubles.

Well the really good thing about this set is the idea is that you can use nasty plot versus defensive teams haha. Big selling point of double dance :p Thankfully unaware clefable is still not that great at the moment, I do think that's a really specific counter you brought up and thankfully since unaware clef isn't everywhere you can rock with 5 other teammates to figure that mon out. Obviously, you aren't going to 6-0 a stall team with one set. There usually will be one mon or two that can handle it.

Vs offense there are better pokemon that can threaten this archetype without wasting a turn of set up.

There are many better offensive Pokemon and that's why Galarian moltres is struggling right now. However, like I said, its bulk and typing does help it out a bit if you want to use it. A lot of HO mons struggle to reliably set up for this reason but Moltres has tremendous bulk and obviously it gets multiple opportunities on Pokemon like Landorus etc

Anyways, the point wasn't that this is some elite set haha. I'm just saying that Galarian Moltres is the odd man out of the new drops and i'm trying to suggest what a viable way to use it is. Felt seeing Agility + Berserk was a viable way to go about it considering it can sponge hits and wipe out weakened teams. It's obviously not the best Pokemon but since we're experimenting right now I thought that would be a fun one to throw out.

 

[DaRkRaii]

Did not even realize until two days ago that there was a wave of unbans to couple with the DLC. Had a few days now to play around and here are my thoughts.

Generally, when the tier is like this, it is way more fun. Outside of running into Lando-I, even stall can function very well in this type of metagame. Multiple strong offensive threats in a generation now with even more counterplay makes it very interesting. The only "staple" I have seen on most teams is banded Genesect which is pretty much the only surefire ban I can see so far. But to be more in depth...

Genesect: At first I did not understand why people still had a hard on for this being banned every time it has been retested. Did not even realize it gets Extremespeed, since the last time I played when Genesect was a thing in OU, Scarf was essentially 95 percent of its usage. Tested out band and when you get the attack boost, it's obscene. Like a more annoying, better revenge killing version of Galarian-Darmanitan that does ridiculous chip with it's U-turn compared to the latter's weaker non-STAB. I do love OP stuff (makes things more fun), this is the one Pokemon I will agree with just outright banning. It's way too easy to predict your opponent switching off the impending U-Turn and then they get hit by a +2 Blaze Kick/Iron Head and now they're in range of anything or outright die. I will abuse it for the next week until it is inevitably quickbanned.

Naganadel: See, this is one Pokemon I do not understand why people are complaining about. The snowball complaints apply to essentially any good set up sweeper, especially in the modern, power crept game. Naganadel was overbearing when it first came out because Z Moves are an atrocity in game design. Set up to +2, nuke someone with the Z Dragon Move and get a speed boost all at once. Z moves do not exist anymore. Specially defensive Heatran literally walls it to hell and back. Same with Magearna even more so (literally immune to both of its STABs). You could always use the argument that once those kinds of threats are out of the way, it tears things apart, but again, that applies to any above average to good sweeper that has good checks/counters. Maybe in the future if some team composition is found out that tears apart Heatran/Magearna type defensive backbones, this thing might go, but not in the current state.

Kyurem-B: Slightly different case. Kyurem-B seems to thrive in a slower metagame where he can get a set up before taking a hit. I never realized until the last few days just how much even speed tiers have been crept up since the last time I played. He's obviously a colossal threat, but even he has a very strong counter in the form of Pokemon like Melmetal. This is not old gens where you can just do lead Dragon, DD and then 6-0. Most teams are prepared for jank like that. While I believe because of general playerbase opinion, it will be banned, I can see a metagame where he does stay, but I would also not be mad if he got banned. Still has crappy defensive typing, just godly offensive typing. Biggest boon is that HDB is a thing but other than, I have found him manageable on the ladder.

Landorus-I: Now, besides Genesect, this is the Pokemon I was most able to just "turn my brain off". I literally just slapped four attacking moves on him and the typical LO SF stuff and you just click moves and 2HKO majority of switch-ins. There are very few hard checks for the coverage he provides and there are also Smack Down/Gravity sets running around that counter the Ground-Flying dynamic (say goodbye Corviknight). Extremely versatile. Calm Mind sets also blow things up even at +1. No way is he staying.

Blaziken: Honestly, I was expecting this to be better. Once there are bans thrown out and if this stays, it's probably a lot better, but most sets it can run get completely hard walled by Tapu Fini. My favourite starter by a country mile but it's crazy to me that Tapu Fini takes NVE damage from everything it can use. Close Combat is a huge upgrade over HJK but Blaziken is still frail and in a tier where everyone and their mom is running Banded Genesect with Extremespeed, Blaziken loses some luster.

I currently do not have an opinion on Zygarde yet since I barely played against anyone on ladder who was using it. Will reserve judgment until later. Galarian Zapdos as someone else mentioned, feels like an even better version of Staraptor. Defiant is a great ability for it as it's great for stuff like Sticky Web spam and makes people think twice about using Lando-T as a blanket physical check. I tested a CB variant that was bait for Intimidate spam and the thing hits like a truck. Can definitely see it being relatively high in usage in a few weeks.

No current opinion on the legendary horses yet either. Looks threatening but it's movepool doesn't seem the greatest. Probably will get by with Shadow Ball spam.

Also, still mad that Garchomp did not get Dragon Dance..

 

[AllTerrainVen0moth]

Im currently expirimenting with suicide lead Azelf.
(im at school rn, ill add the set later)
Lead Azelf is basically a psychic lando-t. Its got a good movepool, with the perfect suicide lead moves in sr, explosion, and taunt.

 

[pkmnthebest]

Blaziken: Honestly, I was expecting this to be better. Once there are bans thrown out and if this stays, it's probably a lot better, but most sets it can run get completely hard walled by Tapu Fini. My favourite starter by a country mile but it's crazy to me that Tapu Fini takes NVE damage from everything it can use. Close Combat is a huge upgrade over HJK but Blaziken is still frail and in a tier where everyone and their mom is running Banded Genesect with Extremespeed, Blaziken loses some luster.


Also, still mad that Garchomp did not get Dragon Dance..

While I agree that blaziken doesn't seem broken right now, this is not entirely true because it still gets thunder punch.
Thunder punch is not an outstanding move on its own, but is very useful to pressure fini/moltres/toxapex using one slot.

 

[DaRkRaii]

While I agree that blaziken doesn't seem broken right now, this is not entirely true because it still gets thunder punch.
Thunder punch is not an outstanding move on its own, but is very useful to pressure fini/moltres/toxapex using one slot.

I will have to look at the Calcs, but pretty sure even at +2 it does not KO and then Fini just uses Scald.

 

[robofiend]

BUT IT'S A BOX LEGENDARY!!!

After playing this meta some more, updated opinions:

Zygarde: Likely an eventual ban but should be suspected not QB'd - and especially not before some of these other jokers. Really hard to check at all because of TA and Toxic covering 99% of potential switch ins. Absurd bulk, great defensive typing, set up moves and it's a great Band abuser. The DD sets are underwhelming with the amount of fast mons out there right now - I think Band and Coil will come out on top.

Naganandel: I'm on the fence about this guy. Very powerful mon that can't break Heatran at all - I think it's forward viability is going to be a function of Tran's - which knowing anything about the last 10+ years of the game will be very high. However, outside of Heatran or random shit like scarfed Pheramosa, or something that's already snowballing, there's not a lot of good answers to this thing after it gets rolling.

Heatran: what a fucking legend. HDB with Flame Body is a modern classic with the ability to disable the omnipresent U-Turns from HO. Great receiver for Clef wishes, Grassy Terrain, you name it. A key SR setter, and an absolute menace to switch into because it might be running Lava Plume, Toxic, Magma Storm, Taunt, or a host of other moves. Definitely going to be a balance and offense staple again.

Cinderace: cool mon, probably always going to be a top tier pick. CC alone is unique, though it feels a lot less relevant with HDB on all of these new frail sweepers. Its movepool is still great, but its speed tier has suffered and it lacks the "snowball" offense mechanic that defines other top threats. More on the "snowball" meta later.

Urshifu: with all this new stuff, Urshi gets its groove back in a big way. Not sure if we're just in the early stages still, but some teams just get picked apart by this thing if they allow it into play. It's hard to pack perfect defense for everything in this meta, and like all the other choices, Urshi comes with some downsides. Sucker Punch alone can be huge for countering busted offense, namely the one listed below...

Spectrier: of all the things this expansion brought, this guy is likely my least favorite. Basically requires a special wall (cough, Blissey) or a strong Ghost resist, as it's entire gameplay is to clean late game with successive boosts. Not necessarily overpowered, just annoying and centralizing. It forces 50/50s against itself, takes no skill whatsoever to use (never seen it do anything but click Shadow Ball), and can function on any squad, it's just a copy-and-paste wincon. At least Pheramosa and Naganandel have some checks post-setup.

Celesteela: I'm not sure what everyone's problem is with not using this, but it's a complete menace defensively speaking. Checks Naga (if it's not at +2), Lando-I, Genesect, Pheramosa, Lando-T, Bulu, Kart, Lele, Rilla, etc. etc. Another great example of a mon who eats wishes up like non other. If you're not into the Fire coverage and Leech seed, Corviknight is an isomer with a similar niche but a slightly smaller offensive footprint

Lando-I: Because I love Celesteela, I can't see this thing as broken. It's certainly strong, but I can't see it as banworthy with some of the other, faster threats running around.

Pheramosa: This mon is one of the only truly busted things out there. Once it's into play, the best that can happen to you is that you correctly pivot to something with a Rocky Helmet or skin effect that can eat the U-Turn, then have another defensive answer for its follow-up, which will also likely be very strong. Unlike Genesect who has some very firm counters in Heatran, Celesteela, and Aegislash (to some degree), Magnezone, Magearna, etc. Pheramosa's fighting coverage is absolutely overwhelming, not to mention that it also boasts a speed tier similar to Scarfed Genesect but without the Scarf, allowing it to outspeed much of the metagame, get a strong attack off, then pivot to something else. If there is anything I'm OK quickbanning, it's Phera. Toxapex is one of this thing's only "kryptonite" counters, but it's so passive that it's really hard to justify keeping it on the team just for someone to pivot off of it into Leki or Lando-I or whatever.

Kyurem-Black: Probably the only other thing I'm fine Quick-Banning. No reason for this mon to exist in OU. Despite its obvious flaws, it can run FB/DD/IS and filler and enjoy near perfect coverage, with options including massive HP subs, Earth Power, Roost, and others.

Genesect: Again, this mon's a beast but... not really. Celesteela, Heatran, Corvi, Pex, even Magnezone can all check it, trap it, maim it, or limit its effectiveness. I think it's cool to have some versatile offensive threats like Gene around, as its wide movepool functions as a permanent blocker to other meta trends that get out of hand. Not saying it's totally kosher, because CB Espeed is nasty, esp with U-Turn and Iron Head to back it up - not to mention the completely unused drive sets or Scarf sets. Definitely a 2nd tier "ban" vote in my mind.