Gen 3 Snorlax (Ubers) [GP: 2/2]

Minority

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Where hard reads and building prep won't get me what I want, a well-timed full para will.

[Overview]

With its high bulk, strong Attack, and expansive movepool, Snorlax is one of the tier's most effective offensive and defensive Pokemon. Curse Snorlax is one of the most difficult Pokemon to check around, being difficult to KO, offensively threatening, and able to customize its set to defeat its potential counters. Defensively, Snorlax is one of the most important checks to Latios and Latias, and it soft checks a variety of other threats including Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, Jirachi, and Regice. Snorlax is also a highly effective wallbreaker, capable of forcing trades with Curse or with STAB Self-Destruct, which is stronger than every Explosion. Immunity and Thick Fat are both useful abilities on an already good defensive Pokemon, blocking one of the most prevalent ways of stalling Snorlax out or making it a highly effective Ice- and Fire-type sponge. However, Snorlax's unboosted physical bulk is not great, and many Pokemon run Fighting-type moves almost exclusively to take advantage of it. Snorlax is also very slow and has no options to rectify this weakness beyond spreading paralysis, meaning that once it is at low health, it is effectively KOed.

[SET]
name: Offensive CurseLax
move 1: Curse
move 2: Body Slam
move 3: Protect / Shadow Ball
move 4: Self-Destruct / Rest
item: Leftovers
ability: Immunity / Thick Fat
nature: Careful
evs: 120 HP / 136 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Curse helps Snorlax cover its mediocre physical bulk while simultaneously building enough power to wallbreak or clean late-game. Body Slam for STAB is fairly strong, accurate, and has a high chance to paralyze foes, which can help teammates, allow Snorlax to actually outspeed a threat, or grant Snorlax even more turns to set up or heal. Return is also an option for additional power, which can especially help for muscling through Pokemon such as Groudon, Kyogre, Latios, Latias, and Mewtwo. Protect is a valuable move to increase Leftovers recovery and scout moves, especially from Choice Band users—which teammates can easily handle if they lock into a Fighting-type move—or Pokemon with Explosion or Self-Destruct such as Metagross, Forretress, and Mewtwo. Shadow Ball and Earthquake are both worthy coverage options to combat the Ghost-, Steel-, and Rock-types intent on countering Snorlax such as Metagross, Forretress, Jirachi, Steelix, Omastar, Dusclops, Gengar, Shedinja, Regirock, and Registeel. Shadow Ball is more common because Earthquake leaves Snorlax completely helpless against Gengar and Shedinja. Fire Blast is also notable, especially on sun teams, for blasting Skarmory and Forretress; two common Snorlax switch-ins that seek to lay Spikes. Self-Destruct sacrifices longevity and cleaning ability for maximum wallbreaking potential. Rest allows Snorlax to remove status and continue boosting against Pokemon that are unable to 4HKO it, which form a substantial portion of the tier after a Curse. Rest is most potent against stall teams, and it should typically be run alongside Shadow Ball; no Pokemon is immune to both Ghost and Normal, letting Rest Snorlax eventually break through all foes with enough boosts. Sleep Talk can be used alongside Rest to make the most of its sleep turns.

252 Special Defense EVs with a Careful nature are important to minimize damage from Latios, Latias, and Mewtwo, and because Special Defense is the defensive stat Snorlax cannot increase via setup. 136 Defense EVs allow Snorlax to always avoid being 2HKOed by Groudon's Earthquake after one Curse. The remaining 120 HP EVs further increase Snorlax's overall bulk, but these can also be placed in Attack for additional damage output early on, which can be especially helpful when running Return. A more offensive EV spread of 104 HP / 152 Atk / 252 SpD can be justified on sets with Protect to supplement recovery, and it further increases Snorlax's wallbreaking potential against Kyogre, Latios, and Latias. Immunity or Thick Fat is utilized depending on team needs; Immunity prevents Toxic from debilitating Snorlax or forcing it to use Rest, while Thick Fat helps it tank attacks such as Latios's Ice Beam and Mewtwo's Fire Blast.

CurseLax functions on a variety of teams and archetypes, and it can customize its movepool, EVs, and even ability to meet specific needs of a team. This particular set appreciates cleaners and sweepers that appreciate Snorlax's ability to pressure Groudon, Kyogre, Latios, Latias, and defensive Steel-types. Offensive CurseLax especially appreciates secondary and tertiary Latios and Latias checks, which relieve its pressure to check these threats while allowing it to wallbreak more aggressively. Therefore, Pokemon capable of taking Thunder such as Steelix, Shedinja, Blissey, Groudon, and Swampert, or Dragon Claw such as Metagross, Forretress, Jirachi, or Registeel, are good teammates. Pokemon that pressure Kyogre and Groudon can help Snorlax break through them, such as Mewtwo, Metagross, Ho-Oh, Steelix, and Rayquaza. Spikes support makes offensive CurseLax especially potent, as it wears down several of its major checks, so setters such as Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Omastar, and Qwilfish are great choices. Trappers such as Magneton and Dugtrio that can remove Steel-types are natural offensive partners.

[SET]
name: Amnesia CurseLax
move 1: Curse
move 2: Amnesia
move 3: Rest
move 4: Body Slam
item: Leftovers
ability: Immunity
nature: Careful
evs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Curse helps Snorlax cover its mediocre physical bulk while simultaneously building enough offensive power to clean. Amnesia makes it nearly impossible for special attackers to break through Snorlax, being especially helpful for Latios, Latias, Kyogre, and Mewtwo. Importantly, it also lets Snorlax continually threaten several Calm Mind users and use Rest less often. Rest allows Snorlax to remove paralysis and burns, and it keeps Snorlax a long-term threat against Pokemon that are unable to 4HKO it, which form a substantial portion of the tier once it has boosted its defenses. Body Slam for STAB is fairly strong, accurate, and has a high chance to paralyze foes, which can be exploited by teammates, allow Snorlax to actually outspeed a threat, or grant Snorlax even more turns to set up or heal. The EV spread allows Snorlax to check Latios, Latias, and bulky Ho-Oh long-term; it also performs especially well against Groudon and lets Snorlax weather Mewtwo Self-Destruct into Spell Tag Deoxys-A Superpower. Immunity is utilized to prevent Snorlax from needing to use Rest for Toxic.

Like Curse Snorlax as a whole, Amnesia CurseLax is very customizable to a team's needs and fits on many archetypes. It still appreciates a secondary Latios and Latias check to relieve its pressure to check them, especially ones that can take Thunder such as Steelix, Shedinja, Blissey, Groudon, and Swampert, or Dragon Claw such as Metagross, Forretress, Jirachi, and Registeel. Pokemon that can pressure Kyogre and Groudon facilitate Snorlax cleaning through them, such as Mewtwo, Metagross, Ho-Oh, Steelix, and Rayquaza. Spikes support makes CurseLax especially potent, as it wears down several of its major checks, so setters such as Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Omastar, and Qwilfish are great choices. Trappers such as Magneton and Dugtrio that can remove Steel-types are natural offensive partners.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Focus Punch / Earthquake
move 3: Body Slam
move 4: Self-Destruct
item: Choice Band
ability: Immunity / Thick Fat
nature: Adamant / Brave
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

A Choice Band brings insane power to the most powerful explosion move in the game, and it further boosts Snorlax's coverage options to potentially blow past conventional checks. Shadow Ball allows Snorlax to hit Gengar and Shedinja, which it could otherwise not touch, and also tackles Dusclops. Fire Blast can be used over Shadow Ball with sun support for hitting Skarmory and Forretress. Focus Punch is viable, as it's typically only used when the opponent is forced to switch, and it does major damage to most Normal-resistant foes. Earthquake also hits most Steel- and Rock-types hard, but it has overall lower power than Focus Punch and is potentially easier to exploit with immune foes. Body Slam is a strong and accurate STAB move with a high chance to paralyze foes, which can be exploited by other teammates, allow Snorlax to potentially outspeed a target it's hit, and make Snorlax more difficult to switch into. Alternatively, Return's additional power is great for blasting through many important Pokemon such as Groudon, Kyogre, Latios, Latias, Mewtwo, and Ho-Oh. STAB Self-Destruct with a Choice Band is absurdly powerful, OHKOing any Pokemon that does not resist it and even OHKOing some that do. Immunity allows Choice Band Snorlax to safely switch into Blissey and forces Pokemon such as Lugia and Skarmory to use moves other than Toxic. Thick Fat allows Snorlax to "resist" Ice Beam and Fire Blast, especially from the likes of Mewtwo. A Brave nature should be used if running Fire Blast.

Choice Band Snorlax functions best on offense teams that have several other Latios and Latias checks, thereby allowing Snorlax to take a more offensive role, so offensive checks such as Metagross, Ho-Oh, Steelix, Regice, and Deoxys-A are great picks. Spikes support helps Choice Band Snorlax break through Steel-types, Groudon, Kyogre, and several other foes more easily, so setters such as Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Omastar, and Qwilfish make good teammates. Trappers like Magneton and Dugtrio can remove Steel-types and serve as great offensive partners. Choice Band and mixed wallbreakers or cleaners such as Groudon, Deoxys-A, Mewtwo, Ho-Oh, Metagross, Rayquaza, and Heracross can help Snorlax to overload defensive cores, especially ones with opposing Groudon and Kyogre.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
====

Snorlax has the bulk to utilize Counter, but it's a high-risk, high-reward choice. Toxic can seriously punish a few conventional Snorlax responses, but most of Snorlax's common switch-ins are immune to this move. Belly Drum boosts Snorlax's Attack to absurd levels and could be paired with Rest and a Chesto Berry for instant recovery, but Snorlax checks and potential revenge killers are very common, so this set is largely outclassed by those already discussed. Sunny Day is a very niche option that can be used to punish Kyogre.

Checks and Counters
====

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types such as Dusclops, Gengar, and Shedinja are immune to Snorlax's most spammable move, and potentially to its entire moveset. Beyond this, each of them also has potential tools to debilitate or defeat Snorlax.

**Skarmory and Forretress**: Skarmory and Forretress have high Defense, resist Snorlax's STAB moves, and are immune and neutral to Earthquake, respectively. They can proceed to set up Spikes, but they, especially Forretress, fear getting caught by Fire Blast in sun. Note Skarmory can also phaze Snorlax, while Forretress may be forced to check it via Explosion after boosts.

**Other Steel-types and Regirock**: Pokemon such as Metagross, Steelix, Registeel, and Regirock have high defenses, resistances to Snorlax's STAB moves, and the power to hit back hard with strong physical moves, but they fear coverage moves such as Earthquake, Focus Punch, or Fire Blast in sun.

**Kyogre and Groudon**: Although they dislike switching into Snorlax and may take heavy damage from its STAB attacks, Kyogre and Groudon have the sheer power to easily beat Snorlax one-on-one or break through its Curse set.

**Defensive Lugia**: Defensive Lugia has the bulk and longevity to pivot into Snorlax and set Reflect or threaten Curse sets with Whirlwind. However, defensive Lugia is also KOed by Self-Destruct, does not like getting hit by Toxic, and cannot threaten Snorlax if Snorlax is the last Pokemon available.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Minority, 222996]]
- Quality checked by: [[SuperEpicAmpharos, 306959], [Inspirited, 127823]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Adeleine, 517429], [Aurora, 109385]]
 
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not qc ofc but here's my 2c

I don't think Sleep Talk and Return even make it as a slash. A lot of players are dropping Rest so I don't think it should an unslashed slot 2. Running boom is pretty popular and there was a surge in sun Fire Blast too. Maybe it's best to have two sets, CurseLax and Tect + 3? The Curse set would probably be something like
Curse
Bslam
Boom/Rest
Tect/Amnesia/Fblast/Sball/Eq ????

qc would have to clean that up lol

In general, Immunity is largely the favored ability over Thick Fat rn. You only see Thick Fat on some Sun teams that have better things to switch into a Blissey or what not nowadays.

CB Deo-A should probs get added to the checks list since it can KO a +1 Lax after a little bit of chip. Heracross probs deserves a mention, too, as it even gets Guts for folks who are okay letting it eat a bslam para. There's also the assorted rock types as well as general booms. Forre is probs too high on the list of CC, it's mostly annoying cause Lax doesn't want to have to deal with the Spikes and it usually can't trade layers for Curses early in the game.

Also, Wobbuffet is pretty important to mention as it can switch into and trap Snorlax, either killing it with Counter or with Destiny Bond.
 
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Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
Where hard reads and building prep won't get me what I want, a well-timed full para will.
I really hope there is a way to put this in the analysis as a header somewhere because it's amazing.

There is a lot of spread diversity with Curselax and Amnesia in particular requires has a different spread set and playbook than the less. If you think you can keep this condensed and write both into the curse set somehow that is somewhat easy to understand and not super long that would be neat, but on the more realistic end I think it would be easier on everyone if it was split into 2 (at least like mm2 said).

I want to discuss the more offensive Curse sets on discord with everyone before we decide what to put here for sure. Currently my favorite is:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 104 HP / 152 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Body Slam

but this does not line up well with C&C standards as it really only aims to make Kyogre and Timid Monotias + Blissey things very uncomfortable. This one also uses Protect more often than not to make the lesser bulk acceptable. Everything else was just dumped into special bulk. It can be brought up to 326 Atk to get the safestias and kyogre calcs more cleanly but I digress. This definitely shouldn't be the final spread here but might be a decent starting point for an attack-heavy variant like the ones I like on rain offense.

The amnelax spread I use is an (now even more) optimized verision of what other players have used:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Amnesia
- Rest
E:
I actually made it better than before with it now cleanly living this absurd combo of attacks, making leftovers remove even more Seismic Toss damage, all the while still making Groudon cry if it isn't in good shape:
[4 Atk Mewtwo Self-Destruct vs. +1 208 HP / 252 Def Snorlax: 190-224 (37 - 43.6%)] + [252+ Atk Deoxys-Attack Superpower vs. +1 208 HP / 252 Def Snorlax: 255-300 (49.7 - 58.4%)] with Leftovers of course.

+6 0+ Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. +4 208 HP / 252 Def Snorlax: 232-273 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(This one isn't super important but it does come into play sometimes)

Latios hurts this Snorlax quite a bit more this way but this particular one is more on an endgame threat than a special tank. Maybe there is a better spread for that. I'll see what I can come up with but if you have your own definitely post it.
 
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Minority

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After some deliberation and discussion I've decided to split the Curselax set into "offensive" and "Amnesia" sets. The former aims to focus mostly on intermediate breaking, and the later more on checking certain offensive Pokemon over time and functioning more as a definitive wincon.

Any additional input is appreciated, especially for particular team / partner choices for Amnesia Curselax.
 

SEA

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NUPL Champion
Lugia 100% needs to be mentioned in Checks and Counters. It hard walls non-Toxic Snorlax. Setting up Reflect can allow other teammates like Ho-Oh to check Snorlax better and burn fish it even. Worth mentioning in that though, if Snorlax is the last Pokemon alive, it will instead use Lugia as setup fodder.

Looks solid otherwise, 1/2.
 

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
Offensive Curselax should look like this imo

[SET]
name: Offensive Curselax
move 1: Curse
move 2: Body Slam
move 3: Protect / Shadow Ball (these two in any order is alright by me) (Sleep Talk moved to Set Comments only)
move 4: Rest / Self-Destruct
item: Leftovers
ability: Immunity / Thick Fat
nature: Careful
evs: 120 HP / 136 Def / 252 SpD

As much as I do like Sleep Talk, pulling Rest on any turn is the worst thing ever along with it being useless against the Dusclops variant of stall. I generally end up changing it to Shadow Ball in matured variations of teams for its ability to threaten Dusclops on the wake-up turn. There is technically another way of pressuring stall with Sleep Talk involving high variance play Deo-A and if that somehow goes well you rely on Sleep Talk pulls before Snorlax gets phazed but this is, once again, really high variance when compared to the Shadow Ball Snorlax line of play. You mentioned most of the other reasons and I hope emphasis is put on Gengar because it is a pretty big threat to rain offense (something that likes this Snorlax) whenever it is under no pressure at all. I like Sleep talk, just not as much as Protect or Shadow Ball.

As far as the ability goes I like Immunity way more than Thick Fat in cases that aren't an offensively biased sun balance. Even those teams can use Immunity pretty effectively so I do think the ability order should be Immunity first.


Band Lax:

I don't think Shadow Ball should ever be slashed with anything here. Snorlax already has what is effectively an OHKO move on Forretress anyways (taking advantage of 3/16 Skarm is harder but still not super difficult). Even if that move is Self-Destruct, I don't think dropping Shadow Ball on Band Lax is ever a good idea.
 
I want to take another stab at this.

Immunity is already first slash on the offensive curse set but I think it should also be first slash on bandlax, too. Being able to safely hard into blissey, force lugia/skarm to click reflect/whirl, and not worry about other instances of Toxic that are less predictable is really important. Thick Fat is basically exclusively for teams that are worried about Fire Blast Mewtwo, which you usually have a better option for.

Personally, I would never run anything other than bslam, boom, fpunch, sball on bandlax unless I'm doing some really specific teching. The first two are self-explanatory and wreckdra has covered why sball is hardly worth dropping. Focus Punch is largely better than EQ, imo, cause both moves are almost always being used when the opponent is switching and Focus Punch is a way safer click for that. EQ doesn't OHKO Metagross so there isn't really a draw to it outside of lines where you want to stay in and trade or specific situations where you have like 30% chip.


For lefties lax:

- Rest allows Snorlax to remove status and continue boosting against Pokemon which are unable to 3HKO it, which is a substantial portion of the tier once it has boosted Defense.
This isn't true (well with sleep talk it is). You need to 4 turns to properly abuse Rest. Sleep, Sleep, Curse, Rest. So the Pokemon has to be unable to 4HKO it. Of related note, Latios Thunder/Dclaw are clean 4HKOs. Tbolt/Ice Beam are not and Thunder/Dclaw Latias are only 12.8% chance with the given spread if she is 252+ spatk. +1 Latias Dclaw 4HKOs cleanly. This means that, generally, Rest on Snorlax is aimed for the Stall matchup. You can get sometimes get away with clicking it in some balance matchups, too, but this is mostly inconsistent when considered in the builder. That is why a lot of players are forgoing Rest in favor of boom/coverage/tect and addressing the stall matchup in other ways.

Taking this a step further, a lot of stall teams will run a Ghost-type. Therefore, your "stallbreaker" Snorlax set is pretty much always Body Slam, Curse, Rest, Shadow Ball. Thick Fat is easier to justify on this set but, again, it's usually only worthwhile if your team has issues with Fire Blast Mewtwo. Even with Rest, Immunity is nice to give your opponent less room to finesse around your stallbreaker.

To close my ramblings on Rest, Sleep Talk changes some rules but I think it is still very hard to justify. Amnesia Snorlax functions in almost the exact same way with only some minor situational differences. I think Amnesia ends up being the better option because you spend less turns rolling the dice and you can setup in front of some CM Pokemon.

I try to not talk about EV spreads cause it's its own rabbit hole but I want to point out that investing in HP is really bad return on investment and being able to 2HKO Latios with Body Slam is very nice benchmark to hit.

I think you should mention how Protect can fuck with booms for Snorlax. It forces boomtwo to guess more to get value and it weakens forre/meta as checks when combined with Curse. There's also a lot of other "random" booms it helps with, it's a pretty big game swing when you nail it.

boom is such a good move on Snorlax. It is almost always your second best click in the balance/offense matchups while retaining a lot of value in the stall matchup. (it only looks "bad" when you compare it directly with the stallbreaker set) I think it deserves to be first slash.

Coverage is also really important. Ghost-types are not a matchup people can get away with ignoring anymore and Sun Fire Blast is really big for the Spikes game. I think the later really deserves to get slashed somewhere.

Honestly, it's kinda stupid for me to be nitpicking those last two points. Slashing is such a mess for this set. Lefties Snorlax is basically just Body Slam + 3 of idk what is the rest of your team. I'm mostly only writing this post for folks who end up stumbling on this thread, really.
 

Exiline

Banned deucer.
is a Past SCL Championis a Two-Time Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Championis a Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
immunity >>>>>>>> thick fat
the fire resist is kinda irrevelant, and you rarely need the
ice resist, especially since the ice beam users have more
powerful attacks than beam to hit snorlax (thunder from mewto
/lati@s - dragon claw from latios).
thick fat also means that you're almost deadweight vs stall
and makes you unable to switch vs blissey without
eventually resting which is a real momentum killer vs most teams.
(to be fair, thick fat shouldn't even be slashed)

mention that protect is also very useful to prevent getting
exploded on which is the most effective way to kill it for
a lot of team, especially thinking about the mewtwo and the
forry interactions (the latter having no mean to damage you
and often comes on snorlax to spikes up)

would give more visibility to fire blast since it's getting
more and more usage in offense (see UPL ?)

in the strategy comments part, you should mention how to use
boom lax vs offense
(basically saying that when using offense you should more often
than not prioritize booming lax > booming metagross because of
the deoa interactions and that booming lax early (like right off the bat / after 1 attack)
to prevent spikes from balance / stall) given you have other way to
deal with latios (mewtwo/deo-a or some fat stuff + sun).
 

Minority

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If it was somehow unclear to the outside observer, Melee Mewtwo's and Exiline's comments were implemented and this is ready for GP.
 

Adeleine

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Add/Fix Remove Comment
(AC): Add Comma

[Overview]

With its high bulk, strong attack, Attack, and expansive movepool, Snorlax is one of the tier's most effective offensive and defensive Pokemon. Curse Snorlax is one of the most difficult Pokemon to check around, being difficult to KO whilst being offensively threatening, all while being KO, offensively threatening, and able to customize its set to defeat its potential counters. Defensively, Snorlax is one of the most important checks to Latios and Latias, and functions as a soft check to it soft checks a variety of other threats including Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, Jirachi, and Regice. Snorlax is also a highly effective wallbreaker, capable of forcing trades with Curse or with STAB Selfdestruct as the most powerful boom user. Self-Destruct, which is stronger than every Explosion. Immunity and Thick Fat are both useful and customizable abilities on an already good defensive Pokemon, allowing Snorlax to ignore blocking one of the most prevalent ways of stalling it out or function as a highly effective Ice- and Fire-type "resist". Snorlax out or making it a highly effective Ice- and Fire-type sponge. However, Snorlax's unboosted physical bulk is not great, which is further exploited by many Pokemon almost exclusively running Fighting-type moves and many Pokemon run Fighting-type moves almost exclusively to take advantage of it. Snorlax is also very slow and has no options to rectify this weakness beyond spreading paralysis, meaning that once it is at low health, (AC) it is effectively KOed.

[SET]
name: Offensive Curselax CurseLax
move 1: Curse
move 2: Body Slam
move 3: Protect / Shadow Ball
move 4: Selfdestruct Self-Destruct / Rest
item: Leftovers
ability: Immunity / Thick Fat
nature: Careful
evs: 120 HP / 136 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Curse simultaneously helps Snorlax cover its mediocre physical bulk while simultaneously building enough offensive power to function as a powerful wallbreaker or endgame cleaner. power to wallbreak or clean late-game. Body Slam is Snorlax's STAB move of choice, being for STAB is fairly strong, accurate, and having has a high chance for paralysis which can be exploited by other paralysis, which can help teammates, allow Snorlax to actually outspeed a threat, or grant Snorlax even more turns to setup set up or heal. Return is also an option for additional power, which can be especially helpful especially help for muscling through Pokemon such as Groudon, Kyogre, Latios, Latias, or and Mewtwo. Protect is a valuable move to increase Leftovers recovery and scout moves, especially from Choice Band users which can be easily countered if locked into a Fighting-type move or users—which teammates can easily handle if they lock into a Fighting-type move—or (I imagine this makes sense?) Pokemon with Explosion or Self-Destruct such as Metagross, Forretress, and Mewtwo. Shadow Ball and Earthquake are both worthy coverage options to consider as move three for directly combating the Normal-type resistances combat the Ghost-, Steel-, and Rock-types intent on countering Snorlax such as Dusclops, Gengar, Shedinja, Metagross, Forretress, Jirachi, Steelix, Omastar, Dusclops, Gengar, Shedinja, Regirock, and Registeel. Shadow Ball is more common because Earthquake leaves Snorlax completely helpless against Gengar and Shedinja. (if this isn't the right or full reason, i'd elaborate on that, bc both coverage moves may be worthy but eq isnt even slashed, implying sball is considerably better) Fire Blast is also notable, (AC) especially on sun teams, (AC) for blasting Skarmory or Forretress; and Forretress; two common Snorlax switch-ins that seek to lay Spikes. Selfdestruct Self-Destruct sacrifices longevity or and (I imagine?) cleaning ability for maximum wallbreking wallbreaking potential. Rest allows Snorlax to remove status and continue boosting against Pokemon which that are unable to 4HKO it, which is form a substantial portion of the tier once it has boosted Defense. This after a Curse. Rest is most potent against the stall matchup, and stall teams, and it should typically be run alongside Shadow Ball; no Pokemon is immune to both Ghost and Normal, letting Rest Snorlax eventually break through all foes with enough boosts. (is this the point? if not, maybe clarify) Sleep Talk can be used alongside Rest to give Snorlax additional chances to setup Curses or to throw out Body Slams for the two turns it must sleep. make the most of its sleep turns.

252 Special Defense EVs with a Careful nature are used to maximize Snorlax's special bulk as it is important for minimizing important to minimize damage from Latios, Latias, and Mewtwo, and because it Special Defense is the defensive stat Snorlax cannot increase via setup. 136 Defense EVs are used to allow Snorlax to always avoid being 2HKOed by Groudon's Earthquake once it begins boosting. after one Curse. The remaining 120 HP EVs are used to further increase Snorlax's mixed overall bulk, but these can also be interchanged with Attack EVs to give Snorlax placed in Attack for additional damage output early on, which can be especially helpful when running Return. A more offensive EV spread of 104 HP / 152 Atk / 252 SpD can be justified on set sets with Protect to supplement recovery, and it further increases Snorlax's wallbreaking potential against Kyogre, Latios, and Latias. Immunity or Thick Fat is utilized depending on team needs; Immunity prevents Snorlax from needing to rest off Toxic while Thick Fat makes Snorlax more effective at tanking Toxic from debilitating Snorlax or forcing it to use Rest, while Thick Fat helps it tank attacks such as Latios' Latios's Ice Beam and Mewtwo's Fire Blast.

Curselax CurseLax functions on a variety of teams and archetypes, and is able to it can customize its movepool, EVs, and even ability to meets meet specific needs of a team. This particular set appreciates cleaners and win conditions sweepers (I imagine this makes sense here?) that appreciate Snorlax's ability to pressure Groudon, Kyogre, Latios, Latias, or defensive Steel-types. Offensive Curselax CurseLax especially appreciates secondary and tertiary Latios and Latias checks to relieve the pressure it faces in checking checks, which relieve its pressure to check these threats while allowing it to function more aggressively as a breaker, so wallbreak more aggressively. Therefore, Pokemon capable of taking Thunder such as Steelix, Shedinja, Blissey, Groudon, and Swampert, or Dragon Claw such as Metagross, Forretress, Jirachi, or Registeel, (AC) are good teammates. Pokemon that can apply pressure to pressure Kyogre and Groudon can facilitate Snorlax's ability to break help Snorlax break through them, such as Mewtwo, Metagross, Ho-Oh, Steelix, and Rayquaza. Spikes support makes offensive Curselax CurseLax especially potent, as it wears down several of its major checks, so setters such as Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Omastar, or and Qwilfish are great choices. Trappers such as Magneton and Dugtrio that can remove Steel-types are natural offensive partners.

[SET]
name: Amnesia Curselax CurseLax
move 1: Curse
move 2: Amnesia
move 3: Rest
move 4: Body Slam
item: Leftovers
ability: Immunity
nature: Careful
evs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Curse simultaneously helps Snorlax cover its mediocre physical bulk while simultaneously building enough offensive power to function as a cleaner. clean. Amnesia makes it nearly impossible for special attackers to break through Snorlax, being especially helpful for Latios, Latias, Kyogre, and Mewtwo. It is also especially notable for allowing Snorlax to continue to Importantly, it also lets Snorlax continually threaten several Calm Mind users and eases the reliance on Rest to stay healthy. use Rest less often. (I imagine this makes sense?) Rest allows Snorlax to remove paralysis and burns, and remain a long term it keeps Snorlax a long-term threat against Pokemon which that are unable to 4HKO it, which is form a substantial portion of the tier once it has boosted its defenses. Body Slam is Snorlax's STAB move of choice, being for STAB is fairly strong, accurate, and having has a high chance for paralysis, (AC) which can be exploited by other teammates, allow Snorlax to actually outspeed a threat, or grant Snorlax even more turns to setup set up or heal. The EV spread allows Snorlax to function as a long-term check to check Latios, Latias, and bulky Ho-Oh while also performing long-term; it also performs especially well against Groudon, and being able to weather Mewtwo Selfdestruct Groudon and lets Snorlax weather Mewtwo Self-Destruct into Spell Tag Deoxys-A Superpower. (if snorlax needs a curse for that feat, you should specify so) Immunity is utilized to prevent Snorlax from needing to rest off use Rest for Toxic.

Curselax functions on a variety of teams and archetypes, and is able to customize its movepool, EVs, and even ability to meets specific needs of a team. Amensia Curselax Like Curse Snorlax as a whole, Amnesia CurseLax is very customizable to a team's needs and fits on many archetypes. It still appreciates a secondary Latios and Latias check to relieve the pressure it faces in checking its pressure to check them, especially ones that are capable of taking can take Thunder such as Steelix, Shedinja, Blissey, Groudon, and Swampert, or Dragon Claw such as Metagross, Forretress, Jirachi, or and Registeel. Pokemon that can apply pressure to pressure Kyogre and Groudon can facilitate Snorlax's ability to clean Snorlax cleaning through them, such as Mewtwo, Metagross, Ho-Oh, Steelix, and Rayquaza. Spikes support makes Curselax CurseLax especially potent, as it wears down several of its major checks, so setters such as Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Omastar, or and Qwilfish are great choices. Trappers such as Magneton and Dugtrio that can remove Steel-types are natural offensive partners.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Focus Punch / Earthquake
move 3: Body Slam
move 4: Selfdestruct Self-Destruct
item: Choice Band
ability: Immunity / Thick Fat
nature: Adamant / Brave (assuming the only reason to run it is fire blast. i keep the sentence explaining why youd use brave, dw)
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

A Choice Band brings insane power to the most powerful boom explosion move in the game, and it further boosts Snorlax's coverage options to potentially blow past conventional checks. Shadow Ball allows Snorlax to hit Gengar and Shedinja, which it could otherwise not touch, and also tackles Dusclops. Fire Blast can be used over Shadow Ball with Sun sun support for hitting Skarmory and Forretress. Focus Punch is viable, (AC) as it's typically only used when the opponent is forced to switch, and it does major damage to most Normal-type resistances. Normal-resistant foes. Earthquake also hits most Steel- and Rock-types hard, but it has overall lower power than Focus Punch and is potentially easier to exploit with immune foes. (I imagine?) Body Slam is a strong and accurate STAB move with a high chance for paralysis, (AC) which can be exploited by other teammates, allow Snorlax to potentially outspeed a target it's hit, and cause Snorlax to be potentially make Snorlax more difficult to switch into. Alternatively, Return's additional power is great for blasting through many important Pokemon such as Groudon, Kyogre, Latios, Latias, Mewtwo, and Ho-Oh. STAB Selfdestruct Self-Destruct with a Choice Band is absurdly powerful, OHKOing any Pokemon that do not resist it and even OHKOing some that do. Immunity allows Choice Band Snorlax to safely switch into Blissey and forces Pokemon such as Lugia and Skarmory to click use moves other than Toxic. Thick Fat allows Snorlax to better function as an Ice Beam and Fire Blast "resist", "resist" Ice Beam and Fire Blast, especially from the likes of Mewtwo. A Brave nature should be used if running Fire Blast.

Choice Band Snorlax functions best on offense teams that have several other Latios and Latias check, checks, thereby allowing Snorlax to take a more offensively focused role, so offensive checks such as Metagross, Ho-Oh, Steelix, Regice, or and Deoxys-A are great picks. Spikes support eases Choice Band Snorlax's ability to helps Choice Band Snorlax break through Steel-types, Groudon, Kyogre, and several others, other foes more easily, so setters such as Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Omastar, or and Qwilfish make good teammates. Trappers like Magneton and Dugtrio can remove Steel-types and serve as great offensive partners. Choice Band and mixed wallbreakers or cleaners such as Groudon, Deoxys-A, Mewtwo, Ho-Oh, Metagross, Rayquaza, and Heracross can help Snorlax to overload defensive cores, especially ones with (or did you mean something like "opposing Groudon + Kyogre cores."?) opposing Groudon and Kyogre.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
====

Snorlax has access and the bulk to utilize Counter, but its it's a high-risk, (AC) high-reward choice. Toxic can seriously punish a few conventional Snorlax responses, but most of Snorlax's common switch-ins are immune to this move. Belly Drum boosts Snorlax's Attack to absurd levels and could be paired with Rest and a Chesto Berry for instant recovery, but Snorlax checks and potential revenge killers are so common very common, so this set is largely outclasses outclassed by those already discussed. Sunny Day is a very niche tech option that can be used to nullify an opposing Kyogre's weather. punish Kyogre.

Checks and Counters
====

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types such as Dusclops, Gengar, and Shedinja are immune to Snorlax's most clickable spammable move, and potentially to its entire moveset. Beyond this, each of them also have has potential tools to cripple debilitate or defeat Snorlax.

**Skarmory and Forretress**: Skarmory has and Forretress have high Defense, resists Snorlax's STAB moves, and is immune to Earthquake. It are immune and neutral to Earthquake, respectively. They can proceed to setup Spikes or phaze Snorlax away, but fears set up Spikes, but they, especially Forretress, fear getting caught by Fire Blast in sun. Note Skarmory can also phaze Snorlax, while Forretress may be forced to check it via Explosion after boosts. (I imagine this paragraph mostly makes sense? freely change anything that doesnt)

**Forretress**: Similar to Skarmory, although it takes damage from Earthquake and even more damage from Fire Blast. It may also be forced to check Snorlax via Explosion.

**Other Steel-types**: Pokemon such as Metagross, Steelix, Registeel, and Regirock (regirock do not be a steel-type. pls either change bullet point title, remove regirock, or do something else, like putting regirock on its own) have high defenses, resistances to Snorlax's STAB moves, and can the power to hit back hard with strong physical moves, but they fear coverage moves such as Earthquake, Focus Punch, or Fire Blast in sun.

**Kyogre and Groudon**: Although they dislike switching into Snorlax and may take heavy damage from its STAB attacks, they Kyogre and Groudon have the sheer power to 1v1 Snorlax easily or break easily beat Snorlax one-on-one or break through its Curse set.

**Defensive Lugia**: Defensive Lugia has the bulk and longevity to pivot into Snorlax and set Reflect or threaten Curse sets with Whirlwind. However, defensive Lugia is also KOed by Self-Destruct, does not like getting hit by Toxic, and cannot threaten last Pokemon Snorlax. Snorlax if Snorlax is the last Pokemon available.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Minority, userid1]]
- Quality checked by: [[SuperEpicAmpharos, userid1], [Inspirited, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Adeleine, 517429], [username2, userid2]]
 
Last edited:

aurora

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Lasen xD


Where hard reads and building prep won't get me what I want, a well-timed full para will.

[Overview]

With its high bulk, strong Attack, and expansive movepool, Snorlax is one of the tier's most effective offensive and defensive Pokemon. Curse Snorlax is one of the most difficult Pokemon to check around, being difficult to KO, offensively threatening, and able to customize its set to defeat its potential counters. Defensively, Snorlax is one of the most important checks to Latios and Latias, and it soft checks a variety of other threats including Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, Jirachi, and Regice. Snorlax is also a highly effective wallbreaker, capable of forcing trades with Curse or with STAB Self-Destruct, which is stronger than every Explosion. Immunity and Thick Fat are both useful abilities on an already good defensive Pokemon, blocking one of the most prevalent ways of stalling Snorlax out or making it a highly effective Ice- and Fire-type sponge. However, Snorlax's unboosted physical bulk is not great, and many Pokemon run Fighting-type moves almost exclusively to take advantage of it. Snorlax is also very slow and has no options to rectify this weakness beyond spreading paralysis, meaning that once it is at low health, it is effectively KOed.

[SET]
name: Offensive CurseLax
move 1: Curse
move 2: Body Slam
move 3: Protect / Shadow Ball
move 4: Self-Destruct / Rest
item: Leftovers
ability: Immunity / Thick Fat
nature: Careful
evs: 120 HP / 136 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Curse helps Snorlax cover its mediocre physical bulk while simultaneously building enough power to wallbreak or clean late-game. Body Slam for STAB is fairly strong, accurate, and has a high chance for paralysis to paralyze foes, which can help teammates, allow Snorlax to actually outspeed a threat, or grant Snorlax even more turns to set up or heal. Return is also an option for additional power, which can especially help for muscling through Pokemon such as Groudon, Kyogre, Latios, Latias, and Mewtwo. Protect is a valuable move to increase Leftovers recovery and scout moves, especially from Choice Band users—which teammates can easily handle if they lock into a Fighting-type move—or Pokemon with Explosion or Self-Destruct such as Metagross, Forretress, and Mewtwo. (replace the hyphens in that sentence with em dashes) Shadow Ball and Earthquake are both worthy coverage options to combat the Ghost-, Steel-, and Rock-types intent on countering Snorlax such as Metagross, Forretress, Jirachi, Steelix, Omastar, Dusclops, Gengar, Shedinja, Regirock, and Registeel. Shadow Ball is more common because Earthquake leaves Snorlax completely helpless against Gengar and Shedinja. Fire Blast is also notable, especially on sun teams, for blasting Skarmory or Forretress; and Forretress; two common Snorlax switch-ins that seek to lay Spikes. Self-Destruct sacrifices longevity and cleaning ability for maximum wallbreaking potential. Rest allows Snorlax to remove status and continue boosting against Pokemon that are unable to 4HKO it, which form a substantial portion of the tier after a Curse. Rest is most potent against stall teams, and it should typically be run alongside Shadow Ball; no Pokemon is immune to both Ghost and Normal, letting Rest Snorlax eventually break through all foes with enough boosts. Sleep Talk can be used alongside Rest to make the most of its sleep turns.

252 Special Defense EVs with a Careful nature are important to minimize damage from Latios, Latias, and Mewtwo, and because Special Defense is the defensive stat Snorlax cannot increase via setup. 136 Defense EVs allow Snorlax to always avoid being 2HKOed by Groudon's Earthquake after one Curse. The remaining 120 HP EVs further increase Snorlax's overall bulk, but these can also be placed in Attack for additional damage output early on, which can be especially helpful when running Return. A more offensive EV spread of 104 HP / 152 Atk / 252 SpD can be justified on sets with Protect to supplement recovery, and it further increases Snorlax's wallbreaking potential against Kyogre, Latios, and Latias. Immunity or Thick Fat is utilized depending on team needs; Immunity prevents Toxic from debilitating Snorlax or forcing it to use Rest, while Thick Fat helps it tank attacks such as Latios's Ice Beam and Mewtwo's Fire Blast.

CurseLax functions on a variety of teams and archetypes, and it can customize its movepool, EVs, and even ability to meet specific needs of a team. This particular set appreciates cleaners and sweepers that appreciate Snorlax's ability to pressure Groudon, Kyogre, Latios, Latias, or and defensive Steel-types. Offensive CurseLax especially appreciates secondary and tertiary Latios and Latias checks, which relieve its pressure to check these threats while allowing it to wallbreak more aggressively. Therefore, Pokemon capable of taking Thunder such as Steelix, Shedinja, Blissey, Groudon, and Swampert, or Dragon Claw such as Metagross, Forretress, Jirachi, or Registeel, are good teammates. Pokemon that pressure Kyogre and Groudon can help Snorlax break through them, such as Mewtwo, Metagross, Ho-Oh, Steelix, and Rayquaza. Spikes support makes offensive CurseLax especially potent, as it wears down several of its major checks, so setters such as Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Omastar, and Qwilfish are great choices. Trappers such as Magneton and Dugtrio that can remove Steel-types are natural offensive partners.

[SET]
name: Amnesia CurseLax
move 1: Curse
move 2: Amnesia
move 3: Rest
move 4: Body Slam
item: Leftovers
ability: Immunity
nature: Careful
evs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Curse helps Snorlax cover its mediocre physical bulk while simultaneously building enough offensive power to clean. Amnesia makes it nearly impossible for special attackers to break through Snorlax, being especially helpful for Latios, Latias, Kyogre, and Mewtwo. Importantly, it also lets Snorlax continually threaten several Calm Mind users and use Rest less often. Rest allows Snorlax to remove paralysis and burns, and it keeps Snorlax a long-term threat against Pokemon that are unable to 4HKO it, which form a substantial portion of the tier once it has boosted its defenses. Body Slam for STAB is fairly strong, accurate, and has a high chance for paralysis to paralyze foes, which can be exploited by teammates, allow Snorlax to actually outspeed a threat, or grant Snorlax even more turns to setup set up or heal. The EV spread allows Snorlax to check Latios, Latias, and bulky Ho-Oh long-term; it also performs especially well against Groudon and lets Snorlax weather Mewtwo Self-Destruct into Spell Tag Deoxys-A Superpower. Immunity is utilized to prevent Snorlax from needing to use Rest for Toxic.

Like Curse Snorlax as a whole, Amnesia CurseLax is very customizable to a team's needs and fits on many archetypes. It still appreciates a secondary Latios and Latias check to relieve its pressure to check them, especially ones that can take Thunder such as Steelix, Shedinja, Blissey, Groudon, and Swampert, or Dragon Claw such as Metagross, Forretress, Jirachi, and Registeel. Pokemon that can pressure Kyogre and Groudon facilitate Snorlax cleaning through them, such as Mewtwo, Metagross, Ho-Oh, Steelix, and Rayquaza. Spikes support makes CurseLax especially potent, as it wears down several of its major checks, so setters such as Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Omastar, and Qwilfish are great choices. Trappers such as Magneton and Dugtrio that can remove Steel-types are natural offensive partners.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Focus Punch / Earthquake
move 3: Body Slam
move 4: Self-Destruct
item: Choice Band
ability: Immunity / Thick Fat
nature: Adamant / Brave
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

A Choice Band brings insane power to the most powerful explosion move in the game, and it further boosts Snorlax's coverage options to potentially blow past conventional checks. Shadow Ball allows Snorlax to hit Gengar and Shedinja, which it could otherwise not touch, and also tackles Dusclops. Fire Blast can be used over Shadow Ball with sun support for hitting Skarmory and Forretress. Focus Punch is viable, as it's typically only used when the opponent is forced to switch, and it does major damage to most Normal-resistant foes. Earthquake also hits most Steel- and Rock-types hard, but it has overall lower power than Focus Punch and is potentially easier to exploit with immune foes. Body Slam is a strong and accurate STAB move with a high chance for paralysis to paralyze foes, which can be exploited by other teammates, allow Snorlax to potentially outspeed a target it's hit, and make Snorlax more difficult to switch into. Alternatively, Return's additional power is great for blasting through many important Pokemon such as Groudon, Kyogre, Latios, Latias, Mewtwo, and Ho-Oh. STAB Self-Destruct with a Choice Band is absurdly powerful, OHKOing any Pokemon that does not resist it and even OHKOing some that do. Immunity allows Choice Band Snorlax to safely switch into Blissey and forces Pokemon such as Lugia and Skarmory to use moves other than Toxic. Thick Fat allows Snorlax to "resist" Ice Beam and Fire Blast, especially from the likes of Mewtwo. A Brave nature should be used if running Fire Blast.

Choice Band Snorlax functions best on offense teams that have several other Latios and Latias checks, thereby allowing Snorlax to take a more offensive role, so offensive checks such as Metagross, Ho-Oh, Steelix, Regice, and Deoxys-A are great picks. Spikes support helps Choice Band Snorlax break through Steel-types, Groudon, Kyogre, and several other foes more easily, so setters such as Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Omastar, and Qwilfish make good teammates. Trappers like Magneton and Dugtrio can remove Steel-types and serve as great offensive partners. Choice Band and mixed wallbreakers or cleaners such as Groudon, Deoxys-A, Mewtwo, Ho-Oh, Metagross, Rayquaza, and Heracross can help Snorlax to overload defensive cores, especially ones with opposing Groudon and Kyogre.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
====

Snorlax has the bulk to utilize Counter, but it's a high-risk, high-reward choice. Toxic can seriously punish a few conventional Snorlax responses, but most of Snorlax's common switch-ins are immune to this move. Belly Drum boosts Snorlax's Attack to absurd levels and could be paired with Rest and a Chesto Berry for instant recovery, but Snorlax checks and potential revenge killers are very common, so this set is largely outclassed by those already discussed. Sunny Day is a very niche option that can be used to punish Kyogre.

Checks and Counters
====

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types such as Dusclops, Gengar, and Shedinja are immune to Snorlax's most spammable move, and potentially to its entire moveset. Beyond this, each of them also has potential tools to debilitate or defeat Snorlax.

**Skarmory and Forretress**: Skarmory and Forretress have high Defense, resist Snorlax's STAB moves, and are immune and neutral to Earthquake, respectively. They can proceed to set up Spikes, but they, especially Forretress, fear getting caught by Fire Blast in sun. Note Skarmory can also phaze Snorlax, while Forretress may be forced to check it via Explosion after boosts.

**Other Steel-types and Regirock**: Pokemon such as Metagross, Steelix, Registeel, and Regirock have high defenses, resistances to Snorlax's STAB moves, and the power to hit back hard with strong physical moves, but they fear coverage moves such as Earthquake, Focus Punch, or Fire Blast in sun.

**Kyogre and Groudon**: Although they dislike switching into Snorlax and may take heavy damage from its STAB attacks, Kyogre and Groudon have the sheer power to easily beat Snorlax one-on-one or break through its Curse set.

**Defensive Lugia**: Defensive Lugia has the bulk and longevity to pivot into Snorlax and set Reflect or threaten Curse sets with Whirlwind. However, defensive Lugia is also KOed by Self-Destruct, does not like getting hit by Toxic, and cannot threaten Snorlax if Snorlax is the last Pokemon available.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Minority, 222996]]
- Quality checked by: [[SuperEpicAmpharos, 306959], [Inspirited, 127823]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Adeleine, 517429], [Aurora, 109385]]


GP Team done
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