Sticky Smogon Sprite Project

G.E.Z.

formerly Grand Emperor of Zelron
is a Top Artistis a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Are SV mons going to be part of this thread too or will there be a separate thread for them?
Yes, this thread will contain all pokemon from gen 8 onwards going forward, so this will also contain the gen 9 pokemon from Scarlet/Violet as well rather than creating a new thread for each gen. Gens 6 and 7 have been linked to in the first post.
 

G.E.Z.

formerly Grand Emperor of Zelron
is a Top Artistis a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Hey everyone, thanks for your patience!

Here is the latest update containing all of the front sprites for Pokémon Legends Arceus. Backs are coming soon.

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Growlithe, Sliggoo, Goodra and Overqwil by Travis.
Arcanine, Qwilfish, Dialga, Palkia, Avalugg, Ursaluna, Basculegion male & female by KingOfThe-X-Roads.
Voltorb, Electrode, Typhlosion, Sneasel male & female, Kleavor and Sneasler by Blaquaza.
Lilligant and Zoroark by Hematite.
Decidueye by Katten.
Basculin, Braviary, Wyrdeer, Enamorus Incarnate and Therian as well as QC by me, G.E.Z.
 
Wow. Excellent job as always!

My only bit of constructive criticism is that Overqwill's proportions seem a little off, like he's super big or bloated.
And Enamorus' colors could be a bit brighter.

But you guys are awesome, keep up the great work!
 
H-Voltorb, Kleavor and Ursaluna could have better posing for them; they all seem to be looking to the side instead of forward. (Especially compared to regular Voltorb's Gen 5 sprite)
Same with the eyes of H-Zorua, H-Zoroark, and H-Goodra, they're not focused on the opponent.
 

AquaticPanic

Intentional Femboy Penguin
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Community Leader
Amazing job all around! honestly I even prefer the Origin forms' sprites to their Artwork or 3D models, very clean work overall!

I do have a few criticisms regarding Hisuian Samurott's sprites though, as I've spotted some innacuracies to the official design. I'll go over them under a Hide tag to keep the post short. I wanted to adress these mostly to present the idea of some small tweaks to make the sprite better. I've waited until the Pokémon Home Render of H. Samurott could come out to compare it both to the sprite and the original Samurott.

1 - Helmet Shape

Hisuian's helmet differs from Unovan's in that it covers Samurott's eyebrows, goes down below the eye level and stick out of the snout a little bit:
1653011737612.png
1653011689855.png


These, however, don't seem to be the case in the sprite, as its eyebrow is still visible, the "wavy" helmet shape is not present and the part that covers the snout is hardly noticeable, not really spiking outwards like the design originally does but rather sticking to the snout:
1653011869685.png




2 - Some Colours

Ok so firstly, I know this might come off as a nitpick, but the colours on the eye and on the body are slightly off. Putting them side by side for comparison's sake:

1653011346809.png
h samurott original.png


It may not seem like it at first, but consider comparing both the sprites of both forms as well as both the home renders and their respective models:

1653011450401.png

1653011468705.png

1653012209781.png
1653012222286.png


In the sprite, Samurott's body colour and eye colour are nearly the same between both forms. However, in the art, models and HOME render, Hisuian's body is a darker and less saturated shade of blue, with much redder, more vibrant eyes. The sprite currently doesn't take either of those into account, instead sticking to nearly the same colours as Unovan.



3 - General Details

This covers 3 different points that aren't really related to one another but had nowhere else to be covered. First and a rather simple one: Hisuian Samurott has an exposed fang when its mouth is closed, which the current sprite lacks:
1653011689855.png
1653011869685.png



Second, Hisuian Samurott's horn points much more upwards than its Unovan counterpart, which is also not currently well represented within the sprite:

1653012209781.png
1653012222286.png

1653012188447.png

1653011450401.png



Lastly, Hisuian Samurott's body is slimmer than Unovan's, being a lot less bulky when compared to side by side, having a thinner body and limbs, as well as a tail that isn't as wide, which is specially noticeable in the models:
1653012209781.png
1653012222286.png


Right now, the Hisuian sprite has the same proportions as Unovan Samurott, which is innacurate.




Now, to illustrate my point better, I've attempted to edit the sprite - Don't get me wrong though, I merely made this just to display my points, I am in no way implying this edit to be used, as I'm not a part of the sprite project or anything like that and I am sure the sprite team could do a much better job than me at applying these fixes to the design. Take this merely as visual reference, sort of what direction I personally believe the sprites should take in order to make the sprite stay closer to the original model:

h samurott original.png
reworked hisuaian samurott.png

Old vs My Reinterpretation

sam-comparison.gif

As I've said, this is merely visual reference so I can communicate better how I believe the sprite can be improved upon. The idea with the edited sprite is merely so I can give you guys an idea of where to take the sprite, I'm sure the spriters could do a better job than my edit (Personally I don't think I did a great job slimming it down, as I missed out on the limbs and tail; and the horn could use some work, for instance).


That is all! Hope my points didn't come across as confusing or nitpicky. Thank you if you read up til this point!


That's all I have for suggestions though! Keep up the awesome work ^.^
 

MBCMechachu

formerly Pikafan2000
is an Artist
Hi, thanks for the amazing work you're doing!

Just to ask, are you planning on doing the small menu icons for each Pokemon also?
There are in fact plans. We got Switch style done for the most part but we plan to bundle that with the 3DS style ones & that's taking a much longer time to get done.
 

G.E.Z.

formerly Grand Emperor of Zelron
is a Top Artistis a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Wow. Excellent job as always!

My only bit of constructive criticism is that Overqwill's proportions seem a little off, like he's super big or bloated.
And Enamorus' colors could be a bit brighter.

But you guys are awesome, keep up the great work!
Overqwill's proportions are a bit different from in-game. The ratio of spike size to body size is a bit different so the sprite can fit while still keeping the face details visible. A bit like how Lugia or Kyurem's fusions have larger heads in their sprites than in other media like the anime or art.

As for Enamorus, what do you mean by brighter? I tried to make the colours a compromise between the in-game colours which are very dark and hard to distinguish between the pink and red, and the official art which is too desaturated.

H-Voltorb, Kleavor and Ursaluna could have better posing for them; they all seem to be looking to the side instead of forward. (Especially compared to regular Voltorb's Gen 5 sprite)
Same with the eyes of H-Zorua, H-Zoroark, and H-Goodra, they're not focused on the opponent.
The perspective for sprites isn't as front on as you're perhaps imagining. Zorua and Zoroark are edits of the Unovan ones for example, so the perspectives are the same as GameFreak does them. Voltorb is a bit side-on, granted, but there are a couple official sprites like that. Suicune for example. Ursaluna, and Goodra I think are fine perspective wise as well. Ursaluna just has its head looking down but eyes looking up at the opponent, and Goodra has a similar perspective to Zoroark.

Those sprites look amazing!

The only unmentioned thing I wanna see changed is the neck fur(?) on zorua. The game and most official art of it shows the mouth being covered by it.

other then that, they’re all amazing!
Fair. I'll see what I can do for the next update.

Amazing job all around! honestly I even prefer the Origin forms' sprites to their Artwork or 3D models, very clean work overall!

I do have a few criticisms regarding Hisuian Samurott's sprites though, as I've spotted some innacuracies to the official design. I'll go over them under a Hide tag to keep the post short. I wanted to adress these mostly to present the idea of some small tweaks to make the sprite better. I've waited until the Pokémon Home Render of H. Samurott could come out to compare it both to the sprite and the original Samurott.

1 - Helmet Shape

Hisuian's helmet differs from Unovan's in that it covers Samurott's eyebrows, goes down below the eye level and stick out of the snout a little bit:
View attachment 426010View attachment 426009

These, however, don't seem to be the case in the sprite, as its eyebrow is still visible, the "wavy" helmet shape is not present and the part that covers the snout is hardly noticeable, not really spiking outwards like the design originally does but rather sticking to the snout:
View attachment 426013



2 - Some Colours

Ok so firstly, I know this might come off as a nitpick, but the colours on the eye and on the body are slightly off. Putting them side by side for comparison's sake:

View attachment 426000View attachment 426002

It may not seem like it at first, but consider comparing both the sprites of both forms as well as both the home renders and their respective models:

View attachment 426004
View attachment 426005
View attachment 426020View attachment 426022

In the sprite, Samurott's body colour and eye colour are nearly the same between both forms. However, in the art, models and HOME render, Hisuian's body is a darker and less saturated shade of blue, with much redder, more vibrant eyes. The sprite currently doesn't take either of those into account, instead sticking to nearly the same colours as Unovan.



3 - General Details

This covers 3 different points that aren't really related to one another but had nowhere else to be covered. First and a rather simple one: Hisuian Samurott has an exposed fang when its mouth is closed, which the current sprite lacks:
View attachment 426009View attachment 426013


Second, Hisuian Samurott's horn points much more upwards than its Unovan counterpart, which is also not currently well represented within the sprite:

View attachment 426020View attachment 426022
View attachment 426019
View attachment 426004


Lastly, Hisuian Samurott's body is slimmer than Unovan's, being a lot less bulky when compared to side by side, having a thinner body and limbs, as well as a tail that isn't as wide, which is specially noticeable in the models:
View attachment 426020View attachment 426022

Right now, the Hisuian sprite has the same proportions as Unovan Samurott, which is innacurate.




Now, to illustrate my point better, I've attempted to edit the sprite - Don't get me wrong though, I merely made this just to display my points, I am in no way implying this edit to be used, as I'm not a part of the sprite project or anything like that and I am sure the sprite team could do a much better job than me at applying these fixes to the design. Take this merely as visual reference, sort of what direction I personally believe the sprites should take in order to make the sprite stay closer to the original model:

View attachment 426002View attachment 426036
Old vs My Reinterpretation

View attachment 426037
As I've said, this is merely visual reference so I can communicate better how I believe the sprite can be improved upon. The idea with the edited sprite is merely so I can give you guys an idea of where to take the sprite, I'm sure the spriters could do a better job than my edit (Personally I don't think I did a great job slimming it down, as I missed out on the limbs and tail; and the horn could use some work, for instance).


That is all! Hope my points didn't come across as confusing or nitpicky. Thank you if you read up til this point!


That's all I have for suggestions though! Keep up the awesome work ^.^
I've compared Samurott and Hisuian Samurott in HOME's model viewer since it gives a lot more control over the perspective that the models are viewed from, and also showed the comparisons to the rest of the team. We don't think H-Samurott is actually thinner, and it's just a perspective/animation thing. The tail definitely isn't slimmer and the body colours aren't different either.

Screenshot_20220520-210708_Pokmon HOME.jpgScreenshot_20220520-212533_Pokmon HOME.jpgScreenshot_20220520-210716_Pokmon HOME.jpgScreenshot_20220520-210812_Pokmon HOME.jpg

HOME's versions of the official art aren't the best to rely on colour wise, they have had quite a few errors in the past like with Shiny Solgaleo, Minior and Gmax Corviknight, and some pokemon like Marshadow have different shades of grey between non-shiny and shiny, even though that's not reflected in-game. Which is why I use the model viewer for comparisons.

But the bit about the helmet on the nose is fair. I'll see what I can do.

Thanks for all your feedback. :heart:
 
The perspective for sprites isn't as front on as you're perhaps imagining. Zorua and Zoroark are edits of the Unovan ones for example, so the perspectives are the same as GameFreak does them. Voltorb is a bit side-on, granted, but there are a couple official sprites like that. Suicune for example. Ursaluna, and Goodra I think are fine perspective wise as well. Ursaluna just has its head looking down but eyes looking up at the opponent, and Goodra has a similar perspective to Zoroark.
That is fair, that not all Gen 5 sprites face forward, I hadn't considered that.
However, I think a case can still be made for two of them, based on their related, pre-existing sprites.
With Voltorb:
1653115181338.png
1653115199548.png

it doesn't face the same direction as the regular sprite, which looks off
1653115254500.png
1653115261886.png

Especially compared to Electrode, which does face the same direction as the regular sprite
With Kleavor:
1653115286691.png
1653115298229.png
1653115304853.png

It's evolutionary relatives do face forward, which makes Kleavor's angle look more off when seen alongside them.
 

G.E.Z.

formerly Grand Emperor of Zelron
is a Top Artistis a Forum Moderator
Moderator
That is fair, that not all Gen 5 sprites face forward, I hadn't considered that.
However, I think a case can still be made for two of them, based on their related, pre-existing sprites.
With Voltorb:
View attachment 426173View attachment 426175
it doesn't face the same direction as the regular sprite, which looks off
View attachment 426176View attachment 426177
Especially compared to Electrode, which does face the same direction as the regular sprite
With Kleavor:
View attachment 426178View attachment 426179View attachment 426180
It's evolutionary relatives do face forward, which makes Kleavor's angle look more off when seen alongside them.
So with Voltorb, not all forms of the same Pokémon face in the same direction, the most notable examples being the forces of nature:
tornadus-incarnate.png
tornadus-therian.png
thundurus-incarnate.png
thundurus-therian.png

As for Kleavor, not all related pokemon look in the same direction. The two examples I'm showing here are Snubbull & Granbull and Mienfoo & Mienshao. But there are other examples of it like Loudred and Exploud and with Lotad, Lombre and Ludicolo.

snubbull.png
granbull.png
mienfoo.png
mienshao.png
 

G.E.Z.

formerly Grand Emperor of Zelron
is a Top Artistis a Forum Moderator
Moderator
There's a pretty stark difference between "these buff men are now a bird and a weird dragon bear thing with completely different anatomy" and "this ball is now made of wood and has eyebrows"
Fair, the Forces do have pretty stark anatomical differences, so probably weren't the best examples. But there still are examples. Keldeo and Meloetta are another couple that come to mind.

keldeo-ordinary.png
keldeo-resolute.png
meloetta-aria.png
meloetta-pirouette.png
 
Fair, the Forces do have pretty stark anatomical differences, so probably weren't the best examples. But there still are examples. Keldeo and Meloetta are another couple that come to mind.

Meloetta's forms are in completely different poses and are always depicted as such, and that Resolute Keldeo also looks dumb and is largely ignored by the proper animated sprite.

:bw/keldeo::bw/keldeo-resolute:

Your reasons for why a sprite that's basically just a pixel recreation of Hisuian Voltorb's official art makes sense (official art which, for the record, has the exact same camera angle as Voltorb's official art, so even Ken Sugimori agrees that their differences are not enough to warrant a completely different angle) are starting to come across less as considerations Blaquaza made during the sprite-making process and more like desperate examples you're making up on the spot to dodge criticism.
 

G.E.Z.

formerly Grand Emperor of Zelron
is a Top Artistis a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Meloetta's forms are in completely different poses and are always depicted as such, and that Resolute Keldeo also looks dumb and is largely ignored by the proper animated sprite.

:bw/keldeo::bw/keldeo-resolute:

Your reasons for why a sprite that's basically just a pixel recreation of Hisuian Voltorb's official art makes sense (official art which, for the record, has the exact same camera angle as Voltorb's official art, so even Ken Sugimori agrees that their differences are not enough to warrant a completely different angle) are starting to come across less as considerations Blaquaza made during the sprite-making process and more like desperate examples you're making up on the spot to dodge criticism.
I haven't dodged anyone's criticisms, I said we would make changes to Zorua and Samurott. I've discussed both Samurott and Voltorb with the team and together we decided that Samurott's slenderness was due to posing, and with Voltorb we just don't think changing the angle is necessary because like Tornadus and Meloetta's form changes it matches the art.

When making sprites of regionals, we prefer to either use the original as a base or an appropriate sprite from another game like HGSS - because granted a lot of form differences do use the same sprite as a base, or base them on the official art where appropriate - because some other form changes, like the Forces of Nature and Meloetta use the art as a base. We also occasionally do custom sprites, like Spiky-Eared Pichu and Keldeo do. Whichever the artist making the sprite is more comfortable with, and Blaquaza felt more comfortable working with the official art as a base.

Just because we disagree with a criticism does not mean we are dodging it. But if it is really going to cause such a fuss, I'll ask Blaquaza if they are willing to redo Voltorb. But if they're not, then Voltorb won't be changing because it would be unfair to have someone else replace their work when the team already doesn't think it's necessary.
 
I haven't dodged anyone's criticisms, I said we would make changes to Zorua and Samurott. I've discussed both Samurott and Voltorb with the team and together we decided that Samurott's slenderness was due to posing, and with Voltorb we just don't think changing the angle is necessary because like Tornadus and Meloetta's form changes it matches the art.

When making sprites of regionals, we prefer to either use the original as a base or an appropriate sprite from another game like HGSS - because granted a lot of form differences do use the same sprite as a base, or base them on the official art where appropriate - because some other form changes, like the Forces of Nature and Meloetta use the art as a base. We also occasionally do custom sprites, like Spiky-Eared Pichu and Keldeo do. Whichever the artist making the sprite is more comfortable with, and Blaquaza felt more comfortable working with the official art as a base.

Just because we disagree with a criticism does not mean we are dodging it. But if it is really going to cause such a fuss, I'll ask Blaquaza if they are willing to redo Voltorb. But if they're not, then Voltorb won't be changing because it would be unfair to have someone else replace their work when the team already doesn't think it's necessary.
I feel like the point got lost somewhere along the way.

Whether or not you're technically """allowed""" to have Hisuian Voltorb looking a different way because of something something precedent is completely irrelevant. You're """allowed""" to draw them however you like, that's just how art works. All that matters is that in the specific case of Hisuian Voltorb, it looks bad.

This ain't a science. This ain't a ruleset. If someone says that a camera angle looks wrong, your response should not be "um actually this other Pokemon changes camera angles so we're allowed to change it here too". It's not a matter of can you, it's a matter of should you.
 
I feel like the point got lost somewhere along the way.

Whether or not you're technically """allowed""" to have Hisuian Voltorb looking a different way because of something something precedent is completely irrelevant. You're """allowed""" to draw them however you like, that's just how art works. All that matters is that in the specific case of Hisuian Voltorb, it looks bad.

This ain't a science. This ain't a ruleset. If someone says that a camera angle looks wrong, your response should not be "um actually this other Pokemon changes camera angles so we're allowed to change it here too". It's not a matter of can you, it's a matter of should you.
uh, sorry for chiming in the argument, but uh, some of the gen five sprites are made to match the official art.

The Hisuian Voltorb sprite they made here seems to do this too, only flipped to face left, as every Gen 5 style sprite does.
464B20F6-F525-4447-AB8F-28D1588A68FA.png
F7AC9A0E-9490-4F37-9DC3-3FF5C9C37F4C.jpeg
I hope this could help, and I again am sorry for chiming in the argument.
 
uh, sorry for chiming in the argument, but uh, some of the gen five sprites are made to match the official art.

The Hisuian Voltorb sprite they made here seems to do this too, only flipped to face left, as every Gen 5 style sprite does.
View attachment 426281View attachment 426280
I hope this could help, and I again am sorry for chiming in the argument.
I know. Zelron said as much.

What I said about camera angles also applies to whether or not the sprite is a recreation of the art. Whether or not other Pokemon do it is irrelevant. All that matters is whether or not a specific sprite looks good recreating the art. And in Hisuian Voltorb's case, it doesn't.
 
Hi! I was just browsing the sprite projects and I'm very impressed with everyone's work.

I have one comment though, I hope no one minds. Does the sprite for Hisuian Typhlosion look short to anyone else? In it's 3D model he's very much a long boi, but here he looks mini in comparison.
 

G.E.Z.

formerly Grand Emperor of Zelron
is a Top Artistis a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Hi! I was just browsing the sprite projects and I'm very impressed with everyone's work.

I have one comment though, I hope no one minds. Does the sprite for Hisuian Typhlosion look short to anyone else? In it's 3D model he's very much a long boi, but here he looks mini in comparison.
No, we don't mind. :)

The Hisuian Typhlosion isn't taller than Johtonian Typhlosion (it's actually a couple inches shorter) it's just slimmer. The sprite we have is the same height as Johto Typhlosion's sprite (excluding the fire), but is slimmer.
 

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